I still think Snape is Harry's father. It'd make the non-stop "You look just like your father" that more ironic. It'd explain a lot of his behavior that's otherwise inexplicable, it'd make the ambivalence of the Sorting Hat and Harry's Parselmouth talent less random. The only question would be who cast the spell making him look like James Potter. My guess would be Lily.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Or maybe Harry is the last horcrux. That would equally explain the Sorting Hat and Parselmouth. (Or more specifically, maybe the scar is the last horcrux.)
Was that theorized in the last book or did someone mention it here? When I type it out it doesn't seem like an original idea. . . hmmmmm.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
I don't think that was in the book Karl, but everyone has said it. Lisa, if that were the case, I doubt I would read the book once I got there, but it makes really good fanfic.
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
sL, that's silly. There is nothing to be gained by Snape being suddenly revealed as Harry's father, and a great deal to be lost. I doubt I'd be the only one who would think Rowling had built up an inordinate amount of suspense for such a cheap payoff. Instead, I think her suspense surrounding Snape is purely about judging people by the surface of their actions.
Harry's a parselmouth because of the connection between himself and Voldemort. Voldemort is a parselmouth by heredity (as Heir of Slytherin). He inadvertantly established a bond with HP when the killing curse rebounded on him. They're bound not only by the failed curse but also by Trelawney's prophesy. I beleive the Sorting Hat recognized the bond and thus was willing to sort Harry into Slytherin. WIthout it, I think he'd have been sorted into Griffindor without hesitation -- as illustrated by Harry's doppleganger, Neville.
I also don't think Harry's scar is a horcrux, largely because simple murder is not enough to create a horcrux. There is a spell that must be invoked, and when the curse rebounded, there was no time for Voldemort to perform it. Further, if he'd intended to make his final horcrux with Harry's murder (which admittedly makes sense), and if the spell to create the horcrux is performed with the murder (rather than immediately after), it still wouldn't have been successful, because Harry wasn't killed. I guess it's possible that Voldemort could have used the murders of Harry's parents to fuel the horcrux spell, but I really got the impression from the description of it, that the spell had to be immediately after or during. But I wouldn't be terribly disappointed if I'm wrong about it. There's a lot of compelling reasons to see Harry's scar as a horcrux.
Posted by Eisenoxyde (Member # 7289) on :
I disagree with the scar being a horcrux. After all, the easiest way to get rid of it is to simply cut it off his head and then destroy it. (Yeah, he would have an even worse scar, but so what?)
Jesse
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Jeniwren you said what I wanted to say, but was too asleep to do.
But on him being a horcrux, I think he could be, either from his parents murder with a horcrux spell cast immeadiatly after, or from his attempted murder, when the horcrux spell was being cast as well as the avada kedarva, harry ended up a horcrux instead of ____ but not dead. Also could it be possible, just a teeny bit, that Harry may be the Heir to Griffindor? (that ones out there)
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
OSC was the first person I saw to suggest that the scar is a horcrux (in his review of the book.)
I think the Snape/dad thing is baloney, as I don't think Rowling would enter a sex scandal into the story. As tempting as that is...
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
If that scar were a horcrux, it is unlikely cutting it off would solve it, you'd still have the affects don there. Heck, I think that about that scar, no matter it's powers, cosmetic surgery won't make them better.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
But Voldemort keeps trying to kill Harry. When a Horcrux is destroyed, he comes closer to dying.
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
Oh, that's an excellent point, kq!
Posted by larisse (Member # 2221) on :
My theory isn't really about Harry's parentage. I think Lily and James are Harry's parents. This theory is about one of the Horcruxes. I think the last one made was something of Lily's. I am not sure if it was by choice or convenience. Probably it was more the latter than the former. It is possible that Voldemort non-verbalized the spell needed to create the Horcrux.
My main reason for thinking this is that Harry has already received something from James, the invisibility cloak. He has yet to receive something of Lily's. (The eye thing doesn't count since he has his father's hair.) But that is the thing isn't it. There is a symmetry there. His father's hair, his father's invisibility cloak. His mother's eyes. There has to be something else from her, but maybe this thing became the last Horcrux.
Oh, starLisa, the whole scenerio of Snape being Harry's real father is the stuff of fanfics all over the net. I remember one in particular that wasn't too badly written. It had James not only being a jerk, but a big a*hole since he beat up Lily.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
But ketchupqueen, the theories I've read in favor of that include that he didn't know he made harry into that last horcrux, but it's what kept him from being totally dead all those years.
Larisse, i'm not sure which one you're mentioning, but one of those fanfics is BloodMagic, and it's pretty good.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
So not only would he have to accidentally make a horcrux, he can't be aware that he had?
I don't believe it.
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
I think Mr. and Mrs. Weasley are Harry's real parents and they'll all live happily ever after.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
ooh I like that one too jebus, except they aren't, it's good.
Posted by Anna (Member # 2582) on :
Sorry to destroy your theories, but JKR said that James WAS Harry's father. Absolutely. No contestation possible. Now about him being the last Horcrux, actually what I think is that he used to be it, but Voldemort got back that part of his soul when he drank Harry's blood in HP4, which explains the triumph in Dumbledore's eyes when he hears about it.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
ooh that could be it, except Dumbledore might have counted that one down.
Posted by KPhysicsGeek (Member # 8655) on :
I like the theory Anna, but I think Wormtail said that the blood of any wizards against Voldemort would do, so I'm not sure if that's why Voldemort got his soul back
(*edit: Changed Wormtounge to Wormtail, mixing up my snivling henchmen)
[ October 27, 2005, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: KPhysicsGeek ]
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
I like that idea too. It could be that the soul-regaining was an added bonus that Wormtail didn't know about - after all, Lucius Malfoy apparently didn't realize that the diary was a horcrux. And I rather doubt Voldemort would be in the habit of sharing info that important with someone like Wormtail.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
It makes sense to me as well. Or maybe.......James Potter and Voldemort are really the same person! (I'm just kidding about the JP and Volde bit, I do think the other idea makes sense.)
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
There is an absolutely amazing fanfic that features Snape as Harry's father. It's the best fanfic I've ever read, and I think it's far better than the books, actually. It's much better writing than a lot of books that are published nowadays.
I'm not sure if we're allowed to post links to fanfics here, but if you or anyone else is interested I would love to send you the link.
If you just want to search for it, it's called "Blood Magic" and it's by Gateway Girl. It's on fictionalley, so you can find it there. Or if you're too lazy to do that (I probably would be) I'll be happy to email a link.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Anna: Sorry to destroy your theories, but JKR said that James WAS Harry's father. Absolutely. No contestation possible.
When did she say that?
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
I don't see why you can't post the link. But if you can't, would you mind sending me the link? Thanks.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
OSC is extremely anti fanfiction. I don't really agree with him (obviously) but since this is his board I don't want to post a link to something he obviously disapproves of.
Posted by Anna (Member # 2582) on :
quote: James is DEFINITELY Harry's father.
Linky It's on JKR website. I linked to the text-only version because I'm still in 56K. Posted by Anna (Member # 2582) on :
quote:Originally posted by starLisa: it'd make the ambivalence of the Sorting Hat and Harry's Parselmouth talent less random.
If I understood well, the ambivalence of the sorting hat and the parselmouth thing is explained by the scar Volemort gave Harry. He sort of passed him some of his talents. Also Snape is no descendant to Salazar Slytherin (since Voldemort is the last one), so there's no reason he would be a Parselmouth.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
JKR has a way of saying something and then coming around at it from a different angle. I still maintain that James Potter and Snape switched bodies at some point, and the current Snape body has James Potter's mind/soul.
I'll agree that this is not true only if I see it isn't so by way of the published Book 7.
I myself expect JKR to have written two stories simultaneously: the surface one, and then the one you read when you reread the novels, now from the perspective of knowing about the switch.
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
CT, why does Snape *hate* Harry then? I totally agree with you that JKR writes in many layers, and that we'll have some serious surprises coming up in book 7, but I can't see how Snape and JP could be switched. Love the idea, though.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
I think "Snape" hates the braggart and prideful self of him that he sees in his son, Harry. I think this is why "Snape" was furious when Harry saw his memory from the Pensieve -- because Harry was seeing his father behaving abominably.
Why would the "real Snape" have been furious at having been seen to have been teased by Harry's father? The overreaction and shame doesn't make sense unless it was the reaction of the one acting like a total ass in the memory.
And "Snape" is always going on and on about Harry thinking so much of himself. I think that is James' own self-loathing talking.
Posted by Anna (Member # 2582) on :
SPOILERS FOR HP6
quote: the current Snape body has James Potter's mind/soul.
Why the heck would he have killed Dumbledore?
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
Clearly Dumbledore knew that was likely to happen. And he required Snape to do whatever was necessary to protect Harry. He was obviously very uncomfortable and unwilling when he had to take the Unbreakable Vow.
As for his behavior towards Harry, in addition to the self-loathing thing, he probably excuses it by thinking that he has to in order to keep suspicion off of him.
Note that on JKR's site, she answers the question about whether Lily is still alive (no, she's not), but doesn't address the question of whether James is.
Posted by Anna (Member # 2582) on :
But if you read the interview she gave for mugglenet.com (Link to the first page) she says "he died trying to protect his family" (speaking about James).
Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
Every time in this thread somebody asks "But why would Snape do that/act that way?" I want to side with Ron's answer:
'Cause he's a git.
--Enigmatic
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:Why would the "real Snape" have been furious at having been seen to have been teased by Harry's father? The overreaction and shame doesn't make sense unless it was the reaction of the one acting like a total ass in the memory.
Without speaking at all to the theory under discussion, I can testify firsthand that being forced to remember past bullying and teasing can bring up serious emotions: rage, grief, shame, and more. I don't see a tantrum like Snape's as being out of the ordinary in that situation.
In fact, it's one of the places where I thought Snape's reaction was most believable.
Posted by 0range7Penguin (Member # 7337) on :
Harry Potter is.........(pay attention this is going to be big)......AN ALIEN!!!!!!!!!
Just Kidding. Throwing in a little humor... Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Without speaking at all to the theory under discussion, I can testify firsthand that being forced to remember past bullying and teasing can bring up serious emotions: rage, grief, shame, and more. I don't see a tantrum like Snape's as being out of the ordinary in that situation.
In fact, it's one of the places where I thought Snape's reaction was most believable.
On the one hand, I can get that. On the other, though, I think of Snape as self-possessed enough to have really laid the smackdown on Harry then if he wanted to, rather than acceding to his own emotions. (i.e., draws self up and says coldly, with glittering eyes, "And now you know just what sort of man your father was, Potter.")
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:draws self up and says coldly, with glittering eyes, "And now you know just what sort of man your father was, Potter.")
I think I see the scene as written as more believable because what you wrote is exactly how I would like to think I would react, and yet... :ruefulgrin:
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
I've read a lot of theories that Snape meant for Harry to see the scene in the pensieve, based on the assertation that Snape's anger in that scene is completely different from his anger at the end of POA. If I can find it I'll post a link to it here.
Edit: Found it! I should have looked in the legit places first. *sighs* Anyway Here it is.
[ October 29, 2005, 01:01 AM: Message edited by: blacwolve ]
Posted by Valentine014 (Member # 5981) on :
I have a feeling I am going to after asking this, and I think I know what it means, but I want to be sure before clicking on links...regarding fanfic (I have never read any before), what is "slash"?
EDIT: And wow! There are ideas about storylines that I never could have conceived of! Crossovers between movies and T.V. show like Constantine and Charmed. There really is fanfic for everyone!
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Probably exactly what you think it means.
Posted by Valentine014 (Member # 5981) on :
Thank you, Jamie. Yeah. Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
Um, what links are you talking about? I see two to mugglenet, which is generally fairly safe, and one to JKR's website, which is completly safe. (I just want to make sure I didn't inadvertantly post any inappropriate links, I've only been in the parts of mugglenet which interest me, so there might be stuff there I never noticed *goes off to check*)
And since you're entering into the world of fanfic, would you like me to email you the link to Blood Magic? Though I warn you it will ruin you forever. It was one of the first fanfics I'd read, and since then I've been looking and only found one other fanfic (in the Harry Potter fandom) that comes anywhere near to being as good.
Posted by Anna (Member # 2582) on :
I love the North Tower chronicles, too.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee:
quote:draws self up and says coldly, with glittering eyes, "And now you know just what sort of man your father was, Potter.")
I think I see the scene as written as more believable because what you wrote is exactly how I would like to think I would react, and yet... :ruefulgrin:
Yeah. I can't believe that being around the sets of scenes from my high school years can still turn me into a cringing dork.
Posted by Jhai (Member # 5633) on :
Darn you! Darn you all (or at least breyerchic04 & blacwolve) !
I had avoided the Harry Potter fanfic scene very well, until now. I'd only touched two fics, both of which were cross-overs with my much beloved universe.
But then you go and rec something that sounds really interesting! And I make the mistake of looking it up...
And I realize tonight that my weekend has gone by in a whoosh of reading 80+ chapters of a very enthralling fanfiction.
.... .... ....
Do you have any more to suggest? Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
I'm emailing you, I might have others and might not, depending on what you like.
Edit: Make that, if you give me your email address I'll email you. I'm blacwolve@gmail.com
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Valentine014: I have a feeling I am going to after asking this, and I think I know what it means, but I want to be sure before clicking on links...regarding fanfic (I have never read any before), what is "slash"?
See the "Sulu is Gay" thread.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
Okay, I have a question about Snape, then. In the first book, he saved Harry's life. In a situation where no one could possibly have blamed him had Harry been killed, and without anyone seeing him (so far as he was aware), he used magic to keep Harry alive.
There's got to be some reason why he is so intent on rescuing Harry Potter.
Posted by Jhai (Member # 5633) on :
I think the answer is simply:
A) Snape's a reasonably good guy, underneath it all. Good people don't like to see small children get killed.
and
B) Snape doesn't like He-who-must-not-be-named. If Potter dies, Voldemort lives, according to the prophesy. If only Harry can kill Voldemort, and Snape wants Voldemort dead, then I think he has a good reason to work hard at keeping Harry alive.
Posted by Anna (Member # 2582) on :
He's a twisted, twisted character, isn't he? And I'm sure JKR reserves us some surprises about him before the end. Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
sL, I'm convinced that Snape is good, just tortured. He hates Harry because he was so mistreated by James, and the two are so alike. But ultimately, while in inconsequentials he cannot quite hold himself back from revenge through cruel treatment to Harry, he feels deeply about being the cause of Lily's death, and thus won't let Harry be killed. Also, I think there is deep loyalty to Dumbledore, and suspect that he's been specifically charged to ensure Harry's safety, if not his happiness.
Posted by Anna (Member # 2582) on :
Hmm, Jhai, did you read the last book? I don't think Snape is a good guy. At all. Even before book 6. And I think JKR said somewhere that he was absolutely not a good guy. I'm perfectly conscious that it doesn't mean that he was not on Dumbledore's side after all, but I don't see him rescuing Harry because he doesn't like small children to get killed.
Posted by Anna (Member # 2582) on :
I read the last book. I stand by my interpretation that Snape is a good guy, in the end.
Twisted, yeah. Sadistic at times, check.
But I think he's really just a guy who knows about trade-offs. He's willing to do almost anything to achieve his (and the Order's) goal of killing Voldy, even if it causes himself or others a great amount of pain along the way. He may not like Harry, but he'll do what's right in the end by saving his life - just like he saved Draco, even though it meant killing Dumbledore.
Maybe we have different definitions of "good guy." I think someone can be a good guy even if he does a lot of bad things - it's not the typical "good guy" hero character that you see in novels, but that just makes it more interesting.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
While I deeply doubt that Snape is actually Harry's father, I think the fandom assumption that Snape was in love with Lily is very easy to believe.
Also, I collect different Snapes, it's the main reason I read fanfic.
I don't think we're shown enough of Snape's personality to really know anything about the man. He's a hugely important character, but we're so rarely shown him doing anything that isn't directly related to the plot that there's no way we can really know all that much about him.
![[Blushing]](graemlins/blushing.gif)
after asking this, and I think I know what it means, but I want to be sure before clicking on links...regarding fanfic (I have never read any before), what is "slash"?![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
As tempting as that is...
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
(I'm just kidding about the JP and Volde bit, I do think the other idea makes sense.)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Taunt]](graemlins/taunt.gif)