While I was on my way home, I heard a commercial on the radio for "lazystudents.com." Yep. One of those just barely shy of helping students plagiarize sites is now doing radio commercials. And they have an 800 number! I was just utterly astonished - the station it was on is the pop/rock one that the majority area high school and college students listen to.
What is the world coming to??
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Not surprising to me really. There's a lot of kids out there who are too lazy (or just don't care) and will cheat and take advantage when given the chance.
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
Oh, I'm not shocked that the site exists. I just can't believe a radio station would let them advertise with them - that just seems really unethical.
Posted by KPhysicsGeek (Member # 8655) on :
Ah the joys of being a math and physics teacher.... hard to plagairize problems.
I think what should be done is the first time plagiarism occurs they should fail the class and be forced to retake it. The second time there should be a sentence written on the student't diploma, transcripts and report cards as well as letters sent to colleges they are applying to, informing them of plagiarism. If they are in college they should be kicked out after the second time.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
Its just like Cliff Notes.....only on the internet. Oh...wait. That is what Spark Notes are for.....um......its just like.......the cheating cheaters who cheat on tests at school! Only its on the internet and no test is involved, that I know of.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
There were a bunch of people trying to cheat in my midterm this evening.
None of them had any clue though. HA!
Posted by JaimeBenlevy (Member # 6222) on :
at Steve
"Not surprising to me really. There's a lot of kids out there who are too lazy (or just don't care) and will cheat and take advantage when given the chance. "
Students? That's human nature. I think there's alot of people, not just students, out there who are lazy and will take advantage of anything that will allow them to be lazy.
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
Well, I suppose the specifics of this service had a large part of why I didn't like it - it apparently specializes in doing last-minute research for students and supplies term papers "to help you write your own." Cliffnotes and Sparknotes I don't mind because those are more like study guides - this thing is very thinly-veiled plagiarism assistance.
Edited to add: And the thing that really got me was the station's display of irresponsibility in playing the commercial. That the site itself would be this audacious is no surprise - however, the fact that the station apparently sees nothing wrong with it is.
[ October 27, 2005, 08:29 PM: Message edited by: Nell Gwyn ]
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Students, people, same difference.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
quote: at Steve
What was it that was uttered from my mouth, though techinically my fingers...., that was confusing?
Posted by KPhysicsGeek (Member # 8655) on :
Don't you love when people are absolutely clueless about cheating? The best story I have is last year a student took my teachers edition book. I didn't panic cause I thought it would be pretty easy just watching who was handing in perfect work. I didn' realize it would be this easy though, a student wrote: "See Margin" for a few of their answers.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
quote: a student wrote: "See Margin" for a few of their answers.
Posted by JaimeBenlevy (Member # 6222) on :
"What was it that was uttered from my mouth, though techinically my fingers...., that was confusing?"
at Steve. Posted by JaimeBenlevy (Member # 6222) on :
It was the overuse of the "..." that confused me in your first post.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
Really? Maybe I can make it more intelligible. Hold on:
"Its just like Cliff Notes only on the internet. But that is what Spark Notes are for, I suppose. Then it is like the cheating cheaters who cheat on tests at school! Only its on the internet and no test is involved, that I know of."
Is that any better?
Edit because I just now realized what you meant in your first post:
I wholeheartedly apologize from the bottom of my heart. Though hearts don't really have bottoms unless you are talking about someone named Heart. And then that would be really weird. But Heart would still have a bottom.
Have I confused you yet? Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
quote: a student wrote: "See Margin" for a few of their answers.
Brilliant!
-o-
I don't worry at all about kids cheating on tests. I have a few who cheat. I know who they are. I don't bust them for it. Outrageous, eh? Let me explain.
First off, every single time I have busted a kid for cheating, their parents have come in to fight it with them. It may be because I teach upper level classes with students who have never gotten in trouble before, and their parents will go to the end of the Earth to protect them, and believe them no matter what. Even in some pretty clear-cut cases, like the time when I made different tests for each kid, without telling them, and one kid had a dozen answers that matched those of her neighbor. Every time, the parents try to defend their children by impugning my competence. And every school I have worked at is wishy-washy at best in the face of litigious parents. (And parents will sue to clear the names of their darlings on occasion, even when their darlings are clearly in the wrong.) It's not anything wrong with my handling of the case. It's that parents see it as a serious charge, that will follow their kids, keep them out of NHS and Mu Alpha Theta, and possibly keep them out of some Ivy League school. So they will fight, even when they know they are in the wrong.
But that's not the main reason why I don't pursue it. I'm not so much of a coward that I won't fight the good fight when I think it needs to be fought. The reason I don't go after cheaters is that, in my experience, even in the short term, it does them no good. And the reason why cheaters don't prosper in my class is because I don't have assigned seats. Kids are allowed to sit wherever they want. Guess what? All the lazy, dishonest, non-homework-doing kids are friends with each other. All the bright-eyed kids are friends with each other. Kids don't even think to switch seats on the day of a test: it becomes so ingrained, it becomes their defacto seating assignment. So when a kid who has not studied, taken notes in class, or done homework decides he wants to cheat, guess who he's surrounded by? Other losers like himself! Nobody can help him!
So I end up with three suspiciously similar 45s. The cheaters fail anyway, without me having to bother to fight about it.
(I also watch my kids diligently, so that they don't have a lot of opportunity to cheat. I do a lot of "Keep your eyes on your own paper" and looking kids in the eye and that sort of thing. But I generally will only go after a suspected cheater very rarely.)
-o-
As for the radio station in question, I would write a letter to the editor of the local newspaper, and I would boycott the station.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
quote:Originally posted by Icarus: So when a kid who has not studied, taken notes in class, or done homework decides he wants to cheat, guess who he's surrounded by? Other losers like himself! Nobody can help him!
Excelent! (Makes note to do away with assigned seating)
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
quote:So I end up with three suspiciously similar 45s. The cheaters fail anyway, without me having to bother to fight about it.
Brilliant!
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
The word brilliant has been used at least twice in this thread. Not only are the students lazy, but we are all too lazy to find a Thesarus!
(One of the times the word was spelt differently, I'll give you that..... Or at least I THINK it was spelt different one of the times....)
Posted by CRash (Member # 7754) on :
But how do you catch the smart kids who cheat? Everybody forgets to study once in a while, or just has a mind-blank. Is it all right to let them copy off others' papers, just because most of the time they do very well?
This was the problem in one of my math classes, after the teacher caught a couple of straight-A students "secretly" sharing answers. So, without telling us, my teacher put out two different forms of the multiple-choice test, alternating rows. That singled out the cheaters pretty darn quick.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Well, remember that I am watching the kids.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
And I have done things precisely like that, specifically when I think someone stands a chance of actually benefiting from cheating. Sometimes the battle has to be fought, and if it needs to be done, I'll do it. I just like the fact that I don't have to most of the time.
I did write up two kids for cheating this year. In fact, I posted about it here, as I recall, when the parents fought it. (If you are curious, the school dropped the referral for the "giver," because she had not taken answers. They punished the "taker," but reassured Mom that it probably would not cost her NHS, if she "came clean about it." )
Posted by CRash (Member # 7754) on :
Last year was the first year our district suspended a kid for cheating. He stole a teacher's book and shared answers with his friends. His friends got off with referrals, but he was out of school for a week.
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
Well, I did write an objection-filled email to the station in question. Writing a letter to the local paper isn't really a practical option for me, unfortunately - I'm on Long Island, so there's probably dozens of little local papers for which this is one of the main radio stations. In addition to being a student-popular station, it's one of the only ones that has reliable reception throughout the island, which is even more frustrating. Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
I could understand how that might be frustrating. But you must not give in to temptation. You must not call them during one of their contests and verbally slap them for the ad. You musn't do it.
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
*giggle* I hadn't thought of that!
Even if I did, I'm sure they'd edit me out - I don't think they do actual live callers.
If you feel like giving in to temptation, though, I'll give you their phone number. Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:I just can't believe a radio station would let them advertise with them - that just seems really unethical.
Almost as unethical as an educational system that forces human beings to be consumers for years and years more than is necessary for almost any profession on the excuse that "people should be well rounded."
...no, wait, not nearly as unethical as that. ^_^
Posted by Goo Boy (Member # 7752) on :
Yeah. That's why, generally speaking, there is no difference between someone with a tenth grade education, someone with a high school degree, and someone with a college degree. It's all such a waste of time.
(This is also why most corporations don't require high school or college degrees for most jobs.)
Posted by KPhysicsGeek (Member # 8655) on :
quote:Originally posted by Goo Boy: Yeah. That's why, generally speaking, there is no difference between someone with a tenth grade education, someone with a high school degree, and someone with a college degree. It's all such a waste of time.
It depends what job you are doing. It's kind of nice for a engineer to have some calculus and mechanics.
Posted by Goo Boy (Member # 7752) on :
::recalibrates KPG's Sarcasmometer::
There you go.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
Goo Boy: This should probably go in another thread before it derails things completely, but I'd be willing to argue that there is almost no perceptible difference between someone with a 10th grade with a month of on the job experience and someone with a college degree just starting the same job.
For most jobs. There are a few (most of them requiring extensive secondary education, like law/medicine) where that isn't true, but for the most part, the degree doesn't teach you a damn thing.
Specialization, baby. Broad education is just a way to lock us in as non-producing consumers for as long as possible. If, tomorrow, all of the non-specialized jobs (which, IMO, is almost all of them) stopped requiring a degree for entry level work, the economy would collapse.
Posted by Goo Boy (Member # 7752) on :
You could argue whatever you want.
You'd be wrong, but you shouldn't let that stop you.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
We'll talk again in 20 years, when a master's degree has become the new "norm" for entry level jobs.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
Erosomniac, I don't want to derail this thread by arguing with you. If you really feel that strongly about your point, perhaps you should start a new topic.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Eros, I believe you are confounding two completely unrelated issues.
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