Today my bosses 17 year old son came into the office to beg, borrow, or aquire some spare cash from his mother. (They are divorced. He stays with Dad, but tries to play them both off against each other for spare cash. He does work, but spends his Wal-Mart check faster than he gets them).
She mentioned his need to pass his classes, and graduate.
He joked around, avoided the issue, then started talking about his future in the Army.
All of this I have overheard several times already.
I think the army will do this kid/punk a world of good.
Then he mentions Iraq, and his great desire to go there. He talks with disdain about the Iraqi's he would be fighting, and the odds of his invincible self being killed there.
When his mother asked if he knew how many US soldiers had died there, he didn't. Neither did she. Someone else said, "About 1200 or so."
I corrected them. I mentioned the enormous number of wounded. He laughed and said, "If I get wounded I get a medal."
I responded, "That medal won't replace your legs."
He was unconvinced. He spoke with the foolish bravado of a green kid, making stupid promises that would endager the lives of everyone around.
I know that bootcamp will do a lot to wipe that out of him. Still, he sounded like the worst of the soldiers I've met, and it made me mad and ill at the same time.
I don't want to discourage him from joining the Army, if he is good enough and will work hard enough to succeed. I think some real life experiences from some people who have been there might help him see the truth about what he wants to volunteer to get into. (Volunteering not for the Army, but for duty in Iraq).
If anyone here can provide those words, or can forward them to me from others who have been there, I think he might appreciate it some day.
Posted by Stan the man (Member # 6249) on :
The one that really needs to be here for this I believe is deployed right now. Granted that was to Afghanistan that he was deployed. Closest I got was the Arabian Gulf. An' I got a buddy who's in the Navy, but is pounding sand in Africa with the Army.
I'm sorry I'm not much help. Besides, the Boot Camp that I went too is totally different from what the Army does.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
My brother was a Marine for two years. While he was in boot camp, he developed fibromyalgia, and a serious case of cellulitis, which is a flesh eating bacteria that literally ate a hole the size of a baseball in his left thigh. It happened midway through basic, so his choice was to either go through the first half of basic again, or try and finish more or less on one leg.
He finished on one leg. He did the swimming test, which is swimming several hundred meters with a hundred pound pack, with one leg. Both diseases have since acted up when he got out of the military (medical discharge), but his medical benefits from the government have been totally cut, he gets nothing, even from the VA hospital in the area.
He's the strongest, most resilient person I know (don't tell him I said that), but that won't cure the flare ups that will haunt him for the rest of his life. He was stationed at 29 Palms for two years, and was discharged literally weeks before the war in Iraq started.
Almost every week he gets updates from friends that were in his battalion. Almost every week, one of them has died. It's hard for me to hear him talk about it, as I said before, he really is a pillar of strength to me. But every week he gets taken down a notch by the death of a friend.
That has been my experience with the military and the war in Iraq. Hope it helps.
Posted by airmanfour (Member # 6111) on :
I'm active-duty Air Force and for reasons i dont feel like going into am utterly undeployable. not my fault, its a job thing. but i have spent my little-over two year career in a joint environment, this being the second army post i've been stationed at, i know that the Army takes Iraq VERY seriously. For basic infantry in both the Army and Marine Corps you graduate basic training (and the odds are, his attitude towards the civilian population will become more polite, but the romanticism that he's attatched to Iraq will get MUCH worse), and then you go to post-basic training (aka infantry school). it's the same type of atmosphere with the yelling and the crazy training. it's serious stuff; preparation for any contingency that TRADOC (training and doctrine command, ugh) thinks is relevent, and almost none of it is pleasant. i've heard stories of night-shelling where all the soldiers could do was wait for morning. some of my army friends have deployed and when they come home all they can think about is the inevitable rotation sending them back. That's all i've got. maybe if i keep volunteering myself, they'll break down and i can give you more personal info in 6 mos. if you can give me more specific questions i may have the answers. i hope that helped.
Posted by jexx (Member # 3450) on :
From my journal earlier this year:
January 27, 2005
Today at work, a young man came in. He was missing an eye, and had no patch over it. It was an empty socket, surrounded by crusted eyelids and perfect, beautiful eyelashes. He had a dreadful, healing scar on the back of his head. Because I work at the US Military Academy, I know what this means. Iraq. War. And I am an eavesdropper. He was a USMA grad, 2003. I probably sold him a Mountain Dew at some point. He was telling a cadet that after OBC (officer training school after USMA graduation), he was sent directly to Iraq. And so were his classmates. And so were the graduating classes after him. He told him this very calmly, and without drama or opinion. Just the facts. Paul (class of 2004), who has been in my home and eaten my food, played with my dog AND my kid, is in OBC right now. Paul has two perfect brown eyes. For now. I don’t know how to feel about the war in Iraq. I don’t know how to feel about Policy, Diplomacy, and Bombs. But I held onto Chuck tonight and told him about my day at work, and begged him not to get shot. Chuck is not a fanciful man, and he responded with his usual pragmaticism, “I’m not going to get shot at West Point.”
********* Nothing you say (or I say, or anyone else on this forum says) will change this kid's attitude. I speak with much authority, having worked with cocky kids just like him for the past three years. Until he meets a vet with a visible wound and a soft, terrible voice, he's not even going to get an inkling of what his experience in Iraq would be like.
We passed the 2000 mark of Americans killed in this conflict (civilian and military) not too long ago. I'm sorry to say, we won't know the full effect of wounded (families and soldiers and civilian workers) for a long time.
Best of luck.
edited for redundant redundancy
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Y2K? The question needs to be answered.
Posted by airmanfour (Member # 6111) on :
i'm sorry, i don't understand.
Posted by Jaiden (Member # 2099) on :
I was a weapons specialist in the Canadian Army. I was a non-com, rank Cpl, acting rank MCpl. I was sent to Afghanistan.
Nothing will change him until he's "been" there. And that will change him forever- perhaps for the good, perhaps for the bad. Boot camp will “tame” him slightly but it also frequently makes some boys more cocky and self-assured. Everybody has their own realization point- for some it won't be until their friend, directly beside them, is shot in the head.
I'd offer to talk to him, but I'm a woman and most likely he wouldn’t “hear” what I have to say.
Posted by Promethius (Member # 2468) on :
Does he understand he still has to pass his classes in order to enter the Army? or any military branch for that matter? There are exceptions for the GED but there are only a certain number of those waivers given every year. I believe only a certain percentage of people can join with a GED.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
quote: I think the army will do this kid/punk a world of good.
Maybe, inasmuch as it will take him out of his comfort zone and force him to stretch himself.
On the other hand, for various reasons, there are a lot of fools in the military, particularly the enlisted portion, and because of circumstances and because of the way the military is built (don't **** your buddy/work as a unit), it's real easy to learn some fun, new bad habits and ways of looking at the world.
Posted by Bean Counter (Member # 6001) on :
If words could do the job it would be done by now, encourage him to go, encourage him to stick it out and tell him there is no need for him to volunteer for Iraq duty, he will end up here soon enough.
What he needs to learn he will learn the only way he can, by experience. Your words or mine cannot make him grow up, but grow up he will if he joins. Swim or drown, sometimes it is the only way.
BC
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dan_raven: Y2K? The question needs to be answered.
quote:Originally posted by airmanfour: i'm sorry, i don't understand.
Y2K = Why 2000? as in why have we lost 2000 of our soldiers? At least that's what I understood Dan to mean. He can correct me if I'm wrong. I, for one, don't think that question has been answered by this administration. In fact, it seems like the body-count to them is just a PR issue, and has seemed like that from the beginning.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
![[Smile]](smile.gif)