quote:

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Either he understood that and is a corrupt teacher (more likely), or he's a damn idiot and oughtn't be one.

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There are other possibilities. He could have thought that you were a cocky kid who needed a blatant, line-crossing lesson to get the point across. He might have felt that your being late and eating in class represented enough disrespect that you needed to be put down publicly. And so forth.

What you need to decide, IMO, is whether you're studying fiction or politics. If it's the former, he was way out of line; if it's the latter, the lesson was cheap at the price.
 

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Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
 
Mmmm. I'm sympathetic to what you're saying, the guy sounds like he wasn't showing much tact towards you, but on the other hand, that note can be taken the wrong way. It's something that he can get you in trouble for. In the final analysis, it was unecessary and counter-productive.
 

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Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
 
I don't give a flamin' damn about his lessons anymore. Even if I am a cocky little bastard - that is completely inappropriate! It's one thing when I eat in class, but where's HIS setting-an-example?

It's still makes him either corrupt or a friggin' idiot.
 

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Posted by Silent E (Member # 8840) on :
 
Mr. Howard, you were in the wrong. I think your teacher reacted well to what was, frankly, an example of very rude behavior in class. Now, complaining about him and making unwarranted accusations about his character, you are again in the wrong. I suggest you get over it and get your act together.
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
I dunno - at the high school I attended, students bringing food and drink to class was common and wasn't a problem as long as it wasn't messy. Fries, apple fritters, sandwiches, coffee, pop, water... Pizza, even.

Or maybe that was just my honors classes?
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 

quote:

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It's still makes him either corrupt or a friggin' idiot.

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Or, again, someone who thinks that by angering and moderately humiliating you, he achieves a greater purpose.
 

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Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
 
Is anyone else having "Fast Times and Ridgemont High" flashbacks?
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
Never saw it.

I think I'm rather relieved.
 

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Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
 

Once upon a time in a museum of "500,000 Natural and Artificial Curiosities from Every Corner of the Globe", there was a door with a sign posted prominently overhead.
To the left of the door, there was a poster labeled 'OGRESS' with a painting of a brute dressed in animal skins bearing a large club.
To the right of the door, there was a poster labeled 'EGRET' with an accompanying poster-sized blow-up painting of the bird.
From the entrance way and each exhibit room, P.T.Barnum had caused to be placed a direction sign pointing toward that door. And at the entrance way, the OGRESS and EGRET posters were prominently displayed on each side of the direction sign, which read:
THIS WAY TO THE EGRESS
Naturally, folks being folks, they'd wanna see this (implied) result of an unnatural mating of an ogress and an egret, and often immediately headed through the egress door.
After which, they would find themselves in the back alley used as the exit walkway from P.T.Barnum's museum. Where they would laugh at themselves for having experienced an amusing lesson, then buy another set of tickets to tour the museum.

Take your teacher's intent as being exactly as he stated.
You learned one of the most valuable lessons concerning the transition from childhood to adult status.
You learned it cheap. I paid the equivalent of US$6000 for mine.

If you want "revenge" to properly balance things out:
Secretly find out what his favorite icecream is -- using a fellow student to make the inquiry, or asking one of his collegues -- then present it to him as a gift, for "forcing him to eat the yucky stuff".

And stick with his classes. He's likely to be one of the wisest teachers that you'll ever run across.

[ January 28, 2006, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
 

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Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
 

quote:

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Or, again, someone who thinks that by angering and moderately humiliating you, he achieves a greater purpose.

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quote:

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If you want 'revenge', make it a proper balance. Secretly find out what his favorite icecream is -- using a fellow student to make the inquiry, or asking one of his collegues -- then present it to him as a gift, for "forcing him to eat the yucky stuff".

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quote:

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He might have felt that your being late and eating in class represented enough disrespect that you needed to be put down publicly.

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I'm a school librarian, it's not really like a teacher but there are some close enough aspects that I feel "on the other side of the bareer".
I'm quite sure I would have taken it as irrespect if you had arrived late in the library and then started eating in it. I don't think I would have eaten your ice-cream (especially if you had already licked it) but I would have punished you, and probably in front of your classmates, yes.
 

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Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
 
Does it seem to anyone else that we've gotten a lot of people coming in here lately to kvetch about problems they seem in large part responsible for?

Jonny, you were wrong. If you did that in one of my classes, I'd take the ice cream off of you too. I don't think I'd eat it myself, but I'd likely offer it up to one of your classmates who could pass some sort of challenge. In this case, I'd probably ask who could tell me the important difference in meaning between lender and free-holder and give the ice cream to whomever got the difference first.

Despite what you seem to believe is true, the world does not revolve around you.

edit: Your teacher sounds like a wise man. You'd do better to get over yourself and try to learn the lessons he's trying to teach you, but who am I to deny you the pleasures of angry self-absorbsion.
 

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Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
 
Jonathan, had I been your teacher when you arrived late and eating an ice cream, i would have been annoyed, too. But I wouldn't have eaten your ice cream. I'm lactose intolerant.

Perhaps, both you and your teacher were behaving inappropriately. But you started it. A little derech eretz is called for in this situation, I think.

Perhaps you can humbly apologize for your behavior, promise to try to do better in the future, and move ahead in a better relationship with your teacher. And maybe your offering of an apology will soften your teacher's heart and he will apologise to you, too.
 

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Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
You were in the wrong. You got an ice cream and it seems it made you late to class. And then you proceeded to eat the ice cream in said class. That's insulting to your teacher.

I mean, come on. If you're stopping for ice cream and you're going to be late, get one for your teacher too.

(I did that in college with coffee. And chocolate. Mmmm, bribery.)
 

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Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
 
I did that too, but I preferred to think of it as curtesy and a mark or respect. Yeah, that's right. Not bribery at all.
 

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Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
Wait a minute. You show up to the class late, and start eating the ice cream (which means obviously you either stopped somewhere to buy it on the way, or paused at home to snatch it out of the freezer), and he takes it away from you.

You're complaining that he didn't let you keep it? And he's corrupt for that? What planet are you from, man? You blatantly disrespected your teacher, your other classmates, and the rules of that particular class by your behavior, and you're whining because your hand got slapped for it.

Grow a pair, man up, and admit you were being a childish person. You already cross the line by being late to class, and another by starting to chow down in class. And don't start calling people corrupt(!!) because they eat your damn ice cream!

Which certainly isn't the real issue anyway. You're not really concerned about the money lost, are you? Nor even these "lines" he crossed (line-crossing doesn't trouble you, after all, when you do it, right?). No, you're pissed because he embarrassed you in front of others.

That's what happens when you walk into a classroom late and chowing down.
 

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Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
Well, bribery is a gesture of respect, sort of, right? It's saying, "You're like me. We can both be bought, right?"
 

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Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 


I recall walking into an english lit course late and carrying chocolate.

Professor. "You're late."
I hand the prof the chocolate.
Professor. "And you think I can be bribed?"
Me. "Yes."
Her. "It's a good thing you're right. Take a seat."
 

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Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
 
Reading the event in the wrong way, TanteShvester. JonathanHoward provided the straightline for his teacher's punchline.
A formal apology is an awkwardness inappropriate to the situation.
My suggested "revenge" returns the punchline with the humor in which the lesson was given.

As mackillian's annecdote demonstrates, sometimes humor leads to the most favorable resolution.
 

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Posted by Zamphyr (Member # 6213) on :
 
'Oh please, I get so lonely when that third attendance bell rings and all of my kids are not here.'

'Am I hallucinating here?... just what in the hell do you think you're doing?'

And, of course,
'What are you people.. on dope? '

No Dan, it's not just you.
 

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Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
aspectre's got it. A little humor goes a long way in making awkward uncomfortable situations settled again.
 

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Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
 
I do think that attempting to eat ice cream in a class is a little bit... not allowed. I mean, we weren't allowed to have food, really, unless you shoved it all into your mouth at the beginning of class. An ice cream would be unthinkable.

I pity you for the loss of an ice cream but since when is eating icecream in class, as well as arriving late a respectful or accepted thing anyway?
 

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Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
 
Yes, the teacher was right to have Howard get rid of the ice cream, but just because Howard was late and eating ice cream, that doesn't give his teacher license to humiliate him. That's wrong for the teacher to do, both morally and, I think, because it is practically going to achieve the exact result we see in this thread.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
I was in eighth grade science, reading a book in the back of the room while the teacher was lecturing.

The teacher came over, took my book, and tossed it in the trash. I had to dig it out at the end of class.

Was I wrong to be reading in class? Yes, it was rude.

Was the way he handled it a bad idea? Boy, howdy. It was humiliating and an abuse of power. Humiliating people doesn't teach them anything other than resentment and mistrust.
 

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Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
 
Yep.
 

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Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
 
Cripes, Kat and I agree.

*peeks outside to see if there are any flying pigs*
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
*laugh*
 

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Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
 
I obviously had a much different educational experience from you. Humiliation, generally good natured, was a primary tool used in my high school's discipline. Then, again, this was combined with the presumption that we should at least be trying to act like adults. When you screwed up, you were expected to acknowledge that you screwed up.

From what Jonny has said, and knowing what I do of him (namely, that he's got a lot of growing up to do), it doesn't sound to me like the teacher acted mean-spirited at all. He even included a valuable lesson in with the relatively mild chiding. I don't see anything wrong with his actions.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 

quote:

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Humiliation, generally good natured, was a primary tool used in my high school's discipline.

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quote:

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Yes, the teacher was right to have Howard get rid of the ice cream, but just because Howard was late and eating ice cream, that doesn't give his teacher license to humiliate him.

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I agree with that. The Teacher should have told him to get rid of the ice cream. If he confiscated it and decided that he was going to eat it he should have been forthright about it, instead of tricking JH.
 

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Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
 
How big is a "magnum" of ice cream? It sounds huge, but from the description, it is what I would call an ice cream pop. That is, a snack-sized bar of ice cream, on a stick, preferably dipped in a lovely chocloate coating.

Variations on this theme include the popsicle, which is fruit-flavored ices on a stick, creamsicle, which is orange sherbet and vanilla ice cream on a stick, and fudgesicle, which is a denser, skim-milk chocolate ice cream on a stick, uncoated.
 

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Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
 
kat,
I wasn't asking for your sympathies. Maybe I wasn't being clear. I regard this as a positive thing. It was designed to help build character and, from my perspective, it worked.
 

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Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
 
Skipping class is only hurting yourself. My guess is that the teacher won't give it a second thought--he's still going to get paid nomatter what. You'd be better off arriving early to every single remaining class, pencil in hand. The guy was trying to teach you, at least make an effort to show that you learned something. You were in the wrong. He was wrong by humiliating you, but you were *more* wrong by inciting the incident. You previously liked this teacher--was that only because his style was never directed at you personally? Get over it.

Some of my favorite teachers in HS were the ones who would heckle you out of your comfort zone every now and then. One of the teachers was responsible for giving me the idea for my screen name.
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
When I was in high school, it was not uncommon for teachers to call us "little punks" and throw erasers at our heads.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
That's inconceivable to me.
 

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Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
 
I had a coach teacher that did that. He would also say, in response to an incorrect answer, "ENH! Wrong! Thank you for playing!" (This is the same coach who informed the class that I had a right to believe whatever I wanted, no matter how wrong it was.)

I had another coach teacher that would throw erasers at people who had fallen asleep. Unlike the first coach, though, for the most part, he was a pretty good teacher.
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
Yeah. As odd as it sounds today, the eraser-throwing teachers I had often stand out in my memory as the good ones.
 

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Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
I agree, Tom. And in the more general sense, I think that as we get older, a less "hands-off" approach in terms of humiliation is merited.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 

quote:

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I think that as we get older, a less "hands-off" approach in terms of humiliation is merited.

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I'm not sure what this means. Does that mean as students get older, teachers don't need to be as careful about not humiliating them?

I'd love to hear the perspective of some teachers about this - how effective humiliation actually is at improving learning and the teaching environment. I've herad Coccinelle tell some stories, and from those, it sounds like a spectacularly bad idea even still.

For humiliation to be effective, it needs to "break" the student a little. How is that something positive?
 

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Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
 
Not everyone is going to be cuddly and nurturing. If teachers were all like this we would have no preparation whatsoever for the real world.
 

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Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
 
I think there's a huge difference between mean-spirited humiliation where the teacher is just using their power to make the student feel small and more good natured stuff where there is a lesson being taught and maturity expected.
 

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Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
I had one eraser thrower. He was also rumored to have shot his lawnmower, to have ripped a speaker from the wall when an announcement interrupted his lecture, and other assorted wacky stuff. He was widely believed to be insane by his students, something he actively cultivated. I learned quite a bit from him--he was a good teacher--but I see this as being in spite of his carefully cultivated eccentricities, rather than because of him. I'm with kat and Storm Saxon on this one.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
MS: That could be true. But it needs to be okay with both parties.

It's like the difference between mocked by a stranger doing it for kicks and being teased by a friend. However, there is the added factor of the power imbalance. The teacher has more power in the situation, and that brings a greater responsibility.

The teacher had better be very sure of their relationship with the student, and they need to be able to recognize and stop when it clearly isn't working.

--

For the real world argument, I don't think so. There's no danger of the real world not appearing, and it's better to have a sturdy, personal foundation with which to confront it.
 

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Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
 
You build a sturdy, personal foundation from confronting adversity, not by being shielded from it. It's pop self-esteem all over again. Kids who are protected from failure and feeling bad and given praise no matter what develop neither self-esteem nor personal strength. You build strength by expecting strength and by valuing quality, not by wrapping kids in emotional cotton wool.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
Avoiding deliberate humiliation is not coddling. I'm all for failing students. Just do it in private. No one's emotional rending should be milked for entertainment. Humiliation requires an audience.
 

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Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
 
In Junior High (7th and 8th Grade), there was a teacher who was an eraser thrower. Nobody thought that this was a big deal, except one kid who brought in a doctor's note saying that he shouldn't have erasers thrown at him because the chalk dust aggravates his asthma.

I'm feeling old.

I was giving a guest-lecture in a high school recently. The bell rang and the kids were still drifting in, talking among themselves while I was waiting to begin my lecture. I waited for a minute, saw no sign of anyone paying me attention, so loudly clapped my hands three times and boomed "OK, people, let's settle down, find your seats and eyes front, please!"

Silence and shocked looks from the class and teacher (who was sitting off to the side). I guess that they don't do that any more, huh?

If any kid talks in class during my lectures, I give them a couple of seconds to see if it stops. If it continues, I interrupt their talking to tell them that they are disrespecting me by talking among themselves while I am lecturing, and that they can pay attention or leave the room.

This also tends to get shocked silence as a response.

I ignore any student who arrives late to lecture. And I refuse to "catch them up" on what they missed. That is their problem, not mine.

I demand respect when I am teaching. A teacher-student relationship is not a collegial one, there ought to be respect on both sides, but the greater deference is due the teacher.
 

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Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
I think my biggest question is whether or not Jonathan knew taht the teacher had a no food policy.

I mean, most of my professors let you eat wheatever you wanted in class, especially in the three hour long lectures at odd hours of the day. Even the ones who said they'd prefer that you not have food that would disturb the class (by being very smelly or loud) generally wouldn't say anything if you brought in a pack of Skittles or a bag of chips and a soda.

Being late had nothing to do with it.

-pH
 

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Posted by Zeugma (Member # 6636) on :
 
Even if the teacher didn't have a specific no-food policy, I'd imagine the combination of the food AND the lateness, especially if the food caused the lateness, would have certainly "crossed the line".
 

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Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
 
Chips = loud food.

I don't let people eat chips while I'm teaching.

Generally speaking, I'm alright with people eating while I'm teaching, as long as they're not disturbing anyone else. I do get a bit frustrated when the class is only 50 minutes long, and people still MUST eat during class. Surely you can find five minutes before or after class in which to eat your munchies.
 

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Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
 
JH,
Is there not at least the possibility that this instructor thought of you as a willing participant in this lesson? I know that I developed a fondness and certain comaraderie with students who were doing well in my classes. I felt as if we had a "contract" that allowed me to banter with them and, within reason, use them as participants in lessons because they appeared to "get it."

Sometimes I struck a wrong note and ended up apologizing for taking too much for granted. But for the most part I found that good students enjoy that kind of attention whereas the less-engaged students were more likely to shrink from any in-class attention and sit there hoping I wouldn't call on them.

So, if time for a little playful banter came up during class, I would naturally gravitate to students who I thought were my allies in the instructional experience.

Alternatively, the instructor may have just thought you should've known better and was peeved with you. I would recommend against retaliation, and instead chat with the person. If they learn of your discomfort and you get the explanation you need for their actions, you still have a chance to enjoy the class, IMHO.
 

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Posted by EricJamesStone (Member # 5938) on :
 

quote:

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I told him that it's שואל (lender) as it wasn't my initiative but his. He asked me whether I'm sure about it and I told him yes. What I didn't notice was that שואל (renter) is one who lends something for the actual use of it.

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I take it neither you nor your classmates are likely to forget that distinction in the future.

I suggest you'll be much better off if you decide this experience is one to laugh about, rather than one on which to build resentment.
 

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Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 
My high school basketball coach was also an eraser thrower (and a slapper). Neither of those bothered me, but I played two sports for the guys so I'd gotten much worse. But he did cross the line when he threw the big eraser (which had wood for a backing material) and gave a girl a black eye. My girlfriend, as it were. He had to apologize to her and her parents.
 

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Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
Speaking personally, humiliation can be a very effective method of teaching, because it ties shame and pride, two of humanity's most powerful motivators, into doing better.

And if a student is put together wrong, behaviorally, well necessarily that structure must be broken.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
I would like to hear a real, personal story from a teacher's point of view where a student who was disrespectful was suddenly and mortifyingly humiliated and then turned around completely to become a model student.

Breaking spirits is not the job of a teacher. If they can't teach without beating students down, they aren't good at their jobs. School is not boot camp, where you enter a civilian, sign over your soul, and come out a soldier.

Stupid, pesky, respect for individuals.
 

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Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
 
Well, although I agree with you, katharina, Humilation can vary a lot. I was made to stand on a chair in a younger grade. I was a tough kid and didn't mind because the teacher did it all the time and I got to look out of the window instead of working.

The next year I was moved to a different seat because I talked to much. I was totally humiliated. Why? Because I respected the teacher.

So levels of humilation are totally relative to the pupil, to the teacher and to the particular pupil-teacher relationship.

As Bob said, one of my favourite teachers would always make fun of certain students because he felt they "got it." I think, once or twice, he did misjudge the situation, but most of the time he was a funny guy.
 

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Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
My partner is a teacher, and she has no problem, when a student is misbehaving, calling the student's parent right there in the middle of class and passing her cellphone over to the student to get an earful from a very annoyed parent.
 

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Posted by Silent E (Member # 8840) on :
 
I don't know how we got talking about humiliation. I don't see that humiliation was a significant factor in the original occurrence. It was rather a) depriving the student of an item he shouldn't have had, and b) incorporating the item into an object lesson, with the overall effect of c) driving home the point that neither tardiness nor eating in class is appropriate.

I also think the example of eating a student's ice cream is different from that of throwing a student's book in the garbage.
 

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Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
I just don't think eating in class is a big deal. Being late to class can be a big deal, but that depends on the professor and the situation.

But I also like to have something to do with my hands, and in a lot of my classes, professors already give us typed notes, so note-taking would be somewhat redundant.

-pH
 

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Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
 

quote:

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I suggest you'll be much better off if you decide this experience is one to laugh about, rather than one on which to build resentment.

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quote:

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I would like to hear a real, personal story from a teacher's point of view where a student who was disrespectful was suddenly and mortifyingly humiliated and then turned around completely to become a model student.

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quote:

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Student: "Hey, teacher, your shoes are old! When are you going to buy a new one?"
Eduardo: "When you or your dad give me the money. Oh, yes...your assignment is still late. When are you going to turn it in?" (It's funny to ad: I received a new pair of shoes. The class pooled the money and bought it to me as a birthday present).

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That's cute. And sweet.

quote:

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When a student bring some kind of snack to the class I usually ask him/her to offer some of it to all classmates and me. Of course, it doesn't leave much for him/her to eat, but it do wonders to avoid them bringing foodstuff to class all the time (It's against the rules, anyway).

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That's the approach my teachers always used-- "If you don't have enough to share with the class, you shouldn't bring it to class."
 

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Posted by Will B (Member # 7931) on :
 
I know when I opened this thread, my first (joking) thought was, if you absolutely HATE your Bible teacher, you must not be learning the lessons very well!

I couldn't decide what to think of this. It's bad to humiliate a student; and it's possible to interpret this as something other than humiliation. It's so subjective.
 

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Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
 
I stayed in class today. No energy to ditch; a friend of mine is already ditching his father's (English) class and offered it to me. I decided against it.

Today the [Bible] teacher and I just exchanged quotes regarding the incident. With a couple of sneers here and there I essentially gave in.

But it's not the last he'll har from me. I might not quite beat him up, but I'll remind it to him every so often. In funny but unpleasant ways.
 

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Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
 
Jonathan, grow up and quit acting like a jerk.

Even if the teacher is behaving poorly, that doesn't mean you have to.
 

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Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
 
Amen, dkw.
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 

quote:

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I might not quite beat him up, but I'll remind it to him every so often.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ketchupqueen:
That's the approach my teachers always used-- "If you don't have enough to share with the class, you shouldn't bring it to class."

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quote:

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(a) He gave no warning about the "crime" I committed.

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So you had no idea that it was disrespectful to enter his class late slurping on the very ice cream that made you late? Have you been late before? Gimme a break!

I have been sarcastic with students in the past with mixed success. I try not to hurt anyone's feelings but it happens and when it does, I apologize.
Things I have said and done to students:

"Don't make me get my big stick!" (with variations like "Where is my big stick?" I actually have a big stick that I will pull out from behind a bookshelf from time to time. I never actually threaten anyone with it though)

"You can flirt later" (to anyone who is play fighting) or "You fight like a married couple" (to anyone who is arguing)

After catching students doing math homework (and sometimes copying off other papers) instead of my classwork, I will march them down the hall to their math class and tell the math teacher what happened. She takes their work, crumples it up and throws it in the trash. She has the same policy if they are doing my work in her class (but she saves the book if they are reading one and just gives it to me; we have more respect for books than to trash them).

I have called parents on my cell phone (like StarLisa's partner) and let the parents talk to them in class. VERY effective and I usually only have to do it once or twice.

When someone throws a paper ball to the trash can, they better make it. If they don't, They have to stay after class and pick up ALL the paper on the floor. It is rare for anyone to throw paper.

I have known a teacher to have a student caught chewing gum (a cardinal sin at my school) scrape 5 pieces of gum of the undersides of the desks.

I would not have eaten your ice cream and I would not have thrown it away. I would have made YOU throw it away and I would have made a big deal about it too. I also would have appreciated it if you had brought me an ice cream. I might have let you eat yours.

I don't think the teacher was in the wrong in this case. He seemed to be trying to use humor to teach you the lesson not to be late because you stopped to buy ice cream (without at least bringing him one). Your only "crime" is not appreciating his humor. Any further action on your part is childish, vindictive and way over the line.
 

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Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
 
You show him Jonny. Getting all worked up about something he's likely to have more or less forgotten and from time to time making cryptic nasty comments that he'll likely not care about or will justifiably punish you for if he does, yeah, that'll make you a winner.

The world doesn't revolve around you. Your teacher isn't thinking obsessively over this. He's likely not thinking about it all. If he is, it will probably be more in the "How can I encourage this kid to start acting maturely?" and not in any of the ways that your self-centered power fantasies make him out to be.

There's not great battle going on between you. The only negative thing you're going to be able to make him feel is sadness that you aren't growing up.
 

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Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
 

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Unhappy ending: Got sent to the principal's office, my parents got called, and I received a couple of scathing lectures about my smart-alecky attitude.

Moral of the story: As a student, you can't win for losing.

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How sad! I did the same thing, but with chocolate, and all 34 of us were permitted to sit in class and eat the chocolate. Although that teacher changed the rule the next day to "it's school policy that we shouldn't be eating in class."
 

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Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 

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Today the [Bible] teacher and I just exchanged quotes regarding the incident. With a couple of sneers here and there I essentially gave in.

But it's not the last he'll har from me. I might not quite beat him up, but I'll remind it to him every so often. In funny but unpleasant ways.

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Wow. Well, you deserved and deserve to be humiliated
 

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Posted by Will B (Member # 7931) on :
 
Susan Elgin (The Gentle Art of Verbal Self-Defense) talks about this classroom dynamic. Most teachers (including all the good ones) understand the power differential, and restrain themselves from intentionally using their power as moderator, speaker, and judge in any sort of personal way against students. They may do things wrong, but they do have a sense of limits.

That is, until the student decides to humiliate the teacher. This says, "I'm on your level; you don't have to hold back any more." Then the teacher will let you have it. Day after day he will have opportunities that go way, way beyond eating ice cream. Sounds like this one's creative enough that he can have the whole class laughing at you whenever he likes.

Doesn't sound too pleasant. I'm glad I'm not in that class.
 

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Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
 
Oh, Jonathan! The tide of public opinion has turned against you!

How about some introspection, empathy, and reconsidering your response?

You've got guts, but it has got to be lonely being you. Do the right thing and be a mentch.

With love, from your Tante Esther
 

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Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
 
I've been lurking for months happily but I can't not post my thoughts on this thread.


JH, You perceived your instructor's actions as a deliberate act of humiliation, correct? You also say that this teacher impressed you as witty and insightful prior to this episode. I'm curious as to whether some of his witticsms have been directed at other students? If so, then when you are the focus of that humor you wilt. You are a smart young man but you lack perspective. You need to realize that the instructor expected better from you and that he was simply being true to form. The only difference between your perception of him previously and now is that you have no sense of humor when you are the subject.
 

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Posted by Foust (Member # 3043) on :
 

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(b) he mocked my taste in ice-cream flavours

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Gee, he might as well sleep with your mother and sister and publically mock you for that!

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Originally posted by Princess Leah:
(psst- I think that was sarcasm.)

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You think?
 

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Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
 
Well, I didn't want to accidentally assign meaning to someone else's words. The world is full of irrational people who take themselves way to seriously.
 

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Posted by Melissa Dedinová (Member # 7890) on :
 
PL - Not that you'd ever guess that just from reading this thread
 

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Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
 
Wow, I feel really spoiled.

We're allowed to eat in class all the time. It depends on the profs, but it seems that here they're pretty laid-back. One Latin prof would bring her lunch to class (one day, an entire messy pita wrap), but that probably had a lot to do with the fact that they don't really lecture after first year in Latin classes. Another prof (oh, those zany Latin profs!) actually let us have class in the campus pub one time (beer and snacks allowed). In larger classes (80+), no one seems to care, because there are just so many students. In the really small classes (<15), it's such a tightly-knit atmosphere that usually it's very casual.

Often I have to eat during class, if my bloodsugar takes a sudden dip. I'm not diabetic, but I start shaking and if ignore it too long I can give myself a migraine. I try to keep it quiet, though, and unobtrusive.
 

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Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
 

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Originally posted by kojabu:
No, laptops eh? Not even for taking notes?

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