This isn't an "oh, pity me" or "I'm the victim" post. I take full responsibility for what I got in any and all threads that got heated. That's how it goes when you post on a forum. I'm not a victim nor do I desire your pity. Instead, I'm going to use this post to explain why I'm leaving.
For the last month or so (maybe a little more), Hatrack hasn't been as good for me. I've felt that I've been taking more than I've been giving, and that any time I did give I was angering or upsetting someone. This was no good. I didn't feel happy with this. The other thing is that what drew me to Hatrack seems to be fading. I came here because it seemed a good community to a) discuss ideas/issues/news and b) to get support when you need it. The last few times I peaked in the ideas/issues/news threads, I feel like it's a flame war almost, with a "we're right, you're wrong mentality." As for support, it's still there in certain people, but it's not as good as it was. So overall, my feeling was that Hatrack wasn't good for me anymore.
I had hoped to wait till I at least had 1000 posts before I dropped out of sight, but present stuff has rushed that forward. Present stuff does not mean just this school thread, but a lot of threads I've posted in recently. My reasons to leave have sort of increased rapidly in a short period, and my reasons to stay have more or less vanished. So I go now. Before I end this post, I'd like to make a few personal comments to the people on here who made some impression on me.
katharina, ketchupqueen, and Taalcon - Although you are all unique, I lump you together since you all helped me with a single issue. I can't thank you guys enough for helping when you did. Even though I'm not sure that the LDS Church is the right one for me, at least this is allowing me to explore another option. A lot of what kept pushing me forward in my research was you guys. The three of you are great people. I hope you stay around Hatrack because it needs people like you to remain a good place.
pH - You were right about me. I do seek isolation. You were wrong in saying that I seek it to be miserable though. I seek it for reasons that hard to put into words. You know how to get a hold of me if you want to discuss it though.
TomDavidson - I hope you have no hard feelings towards me, from the few times we've been on opposite sides of things. I don't have any hard feelings towards you. You're an intelligent guy, and sometimes we need a counter balance.
Teshi - I add you here because in the school thread you seemed worried that it was your post that made me left. It wasn't you. I think you're a fine person, and some of your stuff may have been spot on. My decision to leave has been a long time coming; it just needed proper aggravation to finally push me over the edge (and that's what that thread gave me).
Amanecer - You and I will have some words outside of Hatrack. I'd rather not post here what I'm going to say there.
Anyone else who was supportive in any of my self-indulgent posts: Even though I can't recall your individual names, I can recall the support. I thank you for it. I like to think I'm a strong guy, but I'm not really. It's people like you who make people like me strong.
With that, I leave. Good luck to everyone on this board with their present situation and all their future endeavors.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Well. I'm sorry for your unhappiness. I am often not happy with Hatrack as well. When I'm not happy here, I leave. Thus far, I have always come back. But I can understand the decision to leave if something does not make you happy. You don't owe us your continued participation.
Thank you for posting this explanation, because leaving in "retaliation" for something specific someone said is a pretty cheap manipulative act. I'm glad that is not what you're doing.
You've annoyed me on at least a couple of occasions. Doesn't mean I don't like you. (Or that I do.) I hope that if you ever come back, we can have some interactions where one of us does not tick the other off.
I wish you well in your absence, however long it may last.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Hatrack has always been good for me, even the heated arguments. The cycle of my participation verses my lurking varies on my social life and work...but I always come back. But I understand about the taking more than you give thing. I think we all feel something like this from time to time, but I think the community at large knows this, and we all forgive each other whatever social fopa's we might do or to what level of participation we are up for. For me, even the heated arguments give me a thrill of joy, becuase even if people get angry I know they are alive and we are all here together because we want to be, and because we care about Civilization and each other. I wish you well too.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
pfresh, really...you can't try to isolate yourself and then whine about how you feel isolated.
I'm rather frustrated with you, to tell you the truth.
-pH
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Take care of yourself pfresh. If Hatrack's ceased to be a postive thing in your life, leaving makes perfect sense. If you find yourself wanting to come back in a week, or a month, or a year, there will be people here who will be happy to see you.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote: TomDavidson - I hope you have no hard feelings towards me, from the few times we've been on opposite sides of things. I don't have any hard feelings towards you. You're an intelligent guy, and sometimes we need a counter balance.
None at all, man. Heck, we haven't even been on truly opposite sides of an issue YET. *grin*
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I echo Noemon's words - if it isn't good for you, going is okay. It will here when/if you want to come back, and you'll always be welcome. I wish the best in all of your pursuits. Posted by Unmaker (Member # 1641) on :
Take a break. It'll do you good. Then you'll come back.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Darn, I didn't makes the list.
Well, pfresh you made some encredible convo that I loved to read though sadly my memory problems prevent me from calling what they were or when they were or who was in it.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
These posts always make me paranoid. I can't for the life of me keep details in mind of more than a couple dozen Hatrackers at any given time, so I always wonder if I contributed to the issue.
Since I wasn't listed specifically, I'm gonna assume I didn't.
Never write people off completely. Hope you feel better. Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
I kinda of doubt pfresh is still on here reading this since he said he wasn't going to be, but I would just like to offer my somewhat worthless apology for starting the thread which served as an ... accelerator towards this end. But, if perhaps it served to accelerate what is best, than I wish you luck and look forward to conversing with you sometime in the future.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
I'm sorry you felt you have to leave, and I hope your school issues work out.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dr Strangelove: But, if perhaps it served to accelerate what is best, than I wish you luck and look forward to conversing with you sometime in the future.
quote:Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh! Matt 18:7
Posted by Bean Counter (Member # 6001) on :
It is so sad to see you go...
Who were you?
Oh well I guess it doesn't matter.
BC
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
BC, it's possible to let someone walk away without spitting on their shadow.
Posted by JennaDean (Member # 8816) on :
Pfresh, I'm sorry to see you go. Your comments were one of the reasons I finally felt spurred to stop lurking and post. I'll miss your presence here.
Hope you can find peace.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
The irony is that you would think that pfresh and BC would get along . . .
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
*blink* You would?
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
I haven't been around a lot myself, but what little I saw of you, pfresh, I enjoyed.
Posted by Bean Counter (Member # 6001) on :
How was I spitting? I honestly never saw this person post before this exit post. It made me wonder...
BC
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
Because you don't come into someone's exit thread just to proclaim that you've never heard of them.
That shows unbelievably poor taste.
[edited so as not to stoop]
[ December 09, 2005, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: El JT de Spang ]
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
They both have a tendency to, um, dismiss the views of "liberals" out of hand. (Basically implying that they are so absurd/flawed/tiresome as to not need actual rebutting.) I find pfresh marginally more polite, and more likely to provide a thought-out answer if you call him (?) on it, but they seem to share similar politics and dislike similar people.
That's all superficial, of course. I'm not saying they should be best friends, just that it surprised me to see BC slamming on him.
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
quote: They both have a tendency to, um, dismiss the views of "liberals" out of hand. (Basically implying that they are so absurd/flawed/tiresome as to not need actual rebutting.)
Pfresh made one post that was interpreted that way. He quickly apologized and said that was not how he meant it. He in no way made a pattern of that behavior. I don't think it's particularly nice to bring up one mistake he made, that he quickly apologized for, and claim it represents him.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Agreed. All my interactions with pfresh have been so cordial and polite that the post made me wonder who'd been hitting the bottle.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Well, I started to reply, explaining myself, but I can't really win, now, can I?
I apologize for suggesting that BC would have liked pfresh. I realize how terribly insulting that must be.
It's true that in the only two threads I have ever interacted with pfresh in, he has posted in exactly the same style that BC does. But I'm sure that his 800+ other posts are the epitome of gentlemanly behavior.
Posted by Bean Counter (Member # 6001) on :
800 posts and I cannot remember one? What do you people talk about?
He almost stuck to his guns once but was snapped back by the liberal mafia huh? Well to his credit he saw the writing on the wall and politely left rather then stay here and continue to oui oui in your punch.
However I am like all the soldiers here in Iraq, a hard target that is set to absorb the attacks of the opposition so better things can happen in other places.
good luck pfresh I hope you find a better place for your ideas to flower, I will keep this group of liberals too busy to find you as long as I can!
BC
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
I really don't get you, Bean Counter.
Every time I think I do, you post something that makes me sure you're taking the mickey. But then, I don't think you are.
You confuse the heck out of me.
**
pfresh - I don't know if you'll ever read this. Good on you for taking a positive step for what you need to do. I'm sad that Hatrack has become a place that isn't good for you. Good luck!
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
Bye.
--j_k
Posted by JTruant711 (Member # 8868) on :
All this and Richard Pryor has died. The world is in shambles.
Ramble on...
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:Every time I think I do, you post something that makes me sure you're taking the mickey. But then, I don't think you are. You confuse the heck out of me.
There's a simple hypothesis to fully explain BC, but it's not verifiable and posting it would violate the terms of service.
Enjoy your break, permanent or not, pfresh.
Posted by JTruant711 (Member # 8868) on :
Violate away! After all, it seems you all have a mutual hatred for him.
Posted by Evie3217 (Member # 5426) on :
Pfresh. I'm sorry to see you go. I was always interested to see what you thought on any particular post. You always seemed to be polite whenever you did this as well, and I think that's what counts. You will be missed.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:Violate away! After all, it seems you all have a mutual hatred for him.
Nah. I doubt many people hate BC, any more that you hate the kid who throws up at a birthday party. You might feel sorry for the kid, or just hold your nose and help clean up the mess.
Posted by JTruant711 (Member # 8868) on :
What are you using to clean it up? Seems to me that the scathing attacks just fly back and forth. So, do you clean his puke up with more puke of your own?
I'm a fan of 409, Mr. Clean, or maybe Resolve...
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
One of the important things to do is not let those who BC callously insults, belittles, or otherwise mocks think, by our silence, that we agree with BC's insults, belittling, or mocking.
Posted by JTruant711 (Member # 8868) on :
Either way, it's pfresh's going away party.
Posted by Evie3217 (Member # 5426) on :
I agree with Dagonee, but I also think that we shouldn't retaliate against BC by being callous, mocking, or belittling ourselves. Let's try and keep this thread civilized and make sure that if pfresh is still here, he understands that we will miss him.
Posted by JTruant711 (Member # 8868) on :
And so the wheel goes round...
Posted by JTruant711 (Member # 8868) on :
I'm sure by what I read that he will understand all too well...
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
Is JTruant711 another screen name of Bean Counter? His profile says he's an Infantry Team Leader in Iraq...
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Could be. But BC also, I think, leads like-minded friends to this site so that they will help him continue his attack on this bastion of liberal thought.
Posted by JTruant711 (Member # 8868) on :
I would not say the BC and I are like-minded. I can promise that we aren't the same person though.
So, you would never encourage another person of similar thoughts to join Hatrack?
What else would you like to know about me that's not on my public profile?
Posted by JTruant711 (Member # 8868) on :
I would not say the BC and I are like-minded. I can promise that we aren't the same person though.
So, you would never encourage another person of similar thoughts to join Hatrack?
What else would you like to know about me that's not on my public profile?
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote: So, you would never encourage another person of similar thoughts to join Hatrack?
I think the concern here is that there's a perceived difference between "this is a fun place; you should check it out" and "you think like me; you should come here to help overwhelm the place with our numbers."
Posted by Bean Counter (Member # 6001) on :
Sort of like the Mormons did in Missouri?
Ultimately my friends and I share a love for Card's work, and from the comments on his essays and his political positions I can say that he stands closer to me on the right then this forum does in general.
So think of me as a guest of the host rather then a friend of the company.
BC
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote: So think of me as a guest of the host rather then a friend of the company.
Not a problem. Although at some point I'd much rather be able to think of you as both. Posted by JTruant711 (Member # 8868) on :
I think that it was more a 'this is fun, you should check it out' that got me here. Not wanting to overwhelm any group.
That being said.... In my massive 50 some posts so far, I have received more personal attacks than friendly conversation. When do I get the welcome greeting and the gift package?
I will give a nod to, I think it was Rakeesh... I think, don't quote me on that, who gave me a welcome when I first came here. Thanks.
So, out with the old, in with the new, where's the hospitality?
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
Sorry to say that you're judged by the company you keep.
First impressions can be reversed, though. Both ours of you and yours of us.
Posted by JTruant711 (Member # 8868) on :
Haha.
This I have known for years.
Now, when have I offended you? Following that I will apologize for those transgressions...
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
You haven't offended me.
I'm just tossing out the reason why I think you didn't get a tickertape parade and a 'Welcome!' basket.
Posted by JTruant711 (Member # 8868) on :
Ah.
Did you get one?
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
JTruant- Rereading my previous post, I see how I was very unwelcoming. This thread is the first time I've seen you, and it was wrong for me to judge you based solely on the fact that you know BC. So... Welcome!! I look forward to getting to know you. Posted by JTruant711 (Member # 8868) on :
Thank you, Amanecer. I feel better already.
Not to get off subject, but today was bad day for me in the first place. I didn't get leave (from Iraq) at the beginning of January as I wished, so I will miss my anniversary. My wife is going to be upset.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
No.
But I snuck in quietly.
Posted by Rico (Member # 7533) on :
My uncle is being held back from coming home from Iraq because he needs to be put under a sort of "de-stress course" if that makes any sense. They're keeping him for an extra week or so with the intent of him not "going insane and killing random civilians" when he comes back.
Of course all the stuff I put under quotes aren't actual quotes, but more or less my interpretation of things based on what I heard from him. Nevertheless, he thinks it's a bit dumb in his case seeing as he's got a level head and he really wants to come back home as soon as possible.
Sorry to hear about you missing your aniversary, Jtruant711
Posted by JTruant711 (Member # 8868) on :
Yeah, all these 'Don't go nuts' classes you have to go through are senseless. I had to go through them on my last deployment. I mean, honestly... it's just a waste of time.
Posted by Bean Counter (Member # 6001) on :
I don't know, all that Good Beer in Germany and all those really tight train scheduals, we needed the time to adapt to American ways again!
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Heck, we haven't even been on truly opposite sides of an issue YET. *grin*
![[Wink]](wink.gif)