Wow…. so work is keeping me out of touch. No internet connection there and I’ve been really swamped. Got out a couple of hours early today since our Christmas Party is tonight (officially called holiday party….) but anyway, just wanted to see what you all thought of this one: http://gop.com/Default.aspx Posted by socal_chic (Member # 7803) on :
personally, i agree with it and liked how it was presented
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
/partisan rant
You know what? Politically speaking, the Republicans can't lose with painting people who think our troops should be out of Iraq as defeatist, etc. Let's face it, the bombs will probably never stop in the next twenty years.
So, what will happen is that a year or two from now, troop strength will be cut, not because poor, ol' President Bush wants troop strength to be cut--surely not because of declining morale and enlistment, or the fact that we've built up Iraq about where it was pre-war, or the fact that our continued presence there accomplishes nothing that couldn't be accomplished if we just camped out in Germany and made it clear that we were allied with Iraq; certainly not because the Iraqis want us out!--no, troop strength will be cut because he has to. Those mean ol' DemoRats made me do it. If it wasn't for them and their dog, Mass Media, we coulda been winners and defeated terrorism! We coulda done had a democratic Iraq and then those dominoes woulda started to fall and the whole Middle East woulda been peaceful!
Then, when crap hits the fan afterwards, they can hop up and down and say 'See! See!' and score more political points. Any terrorist attacks? All the fault that we left Iraq, of course, Lieberman and other hawks can gloat in 2008. They can run again on being Pro-Defense.
The Republicans/Hawks cannot declare any kind of victory in Iraq, ever. Doing so leaves them open to those exact criticisms from Democrats/Doves.
/partisan rant
Posted by dantesparadigm (Member # 8756) on :
There are definitely a large percentage of republican and democratic politicians that only look at the war in terms of politics. It's an inherent problem of our system that the only people who can get elected aren’t necessarily the ones with the ideal skill-set for the job. However the average citizen has no such political interest in the war, and can look at it from a nationalistic or humanitarian view and come to the conclusion that the only outcome we can accept is absolute victory, which is within our grasp. The democrats and liberal media have done everything in their power to make it seem like we are losing this war. The picture in people's minds is so far off from the truth it's sickening. Everyday we are building schools, hospitals and infrastructure. We are strengthening the free Iraqi military and police while wearing down the insurgency. Words like quagmire and lost cause simply are not applicable to the war effort as a whole. Things are moving forward, the Iraqi people are not going to put up with the murder of innocents forever and before long there will be an end to the terrorism. It’s a time consuming, involved process, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel. A free Iraq, and our soldiers returning home victorious heroes rather than whipped dogs. We as a people just need to stand behind the effort like the good old days of WW2, politicians be damned.
Posted by tern (Member # 7429) on :
I think it's good that the GOP is finally countering the accusations of the other side with the same force that the other side attacks them with. Now, if you're on the other side, you'll probably disagree - but that's politics. Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote: I think it's good that the GOP is finally countering the accusations of the other side with the same force that the other side attacks them with.
Oh, yeah. They're as pure as the driven snow over there on the Republican side of the Hill. I mean, they've never made any kind of attack with, y'know, force. *rolls eyes*
You know better than that, tern.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
I bet he doesn't. Posted by tern (Member # 7429) on :
quote:Oh, yeah. They're as pure as the driven snow over there on the Republican side of the Hill. I mean, they've never made any kind of attack with, y'know, force. *rolls eyes*
And that wasn't what I was arguing. Although most conservatives (including myself) have felt that the GOP was not nearly as proactive in pushing their agenda (P.R.-wise) as the Democrats were, nor nearly as effective.
If I thought that the GOP was "pure as the driven snow" then I would actually join - but as it stands, I'm fairly disgusted with them.
quote:I bet he doesn't.
I'll bet I does. When I strain and crick my neck just right I can even see other people's point of view. (Of course, being able to see their POV doesn't meen that they're not still wrong...but) What about you? Can you understand why the Republicans are running this ad, and why conservatives in general are happy about it, without delving into "GOP is corrupt and evil" polemics?
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Tern, I apologize for my last remark. That wasn't called for and you took it in good humour. Thanks.
Of course I understand why conservatives are happy about it, it bashes 'liberals'.
If your argument is that this is something that is adding a bit of news we haven't heard before, how do you figure? I have yet to hear anything other than leaving before we 'finish' in Iraq is defeat from conservative commentators.
Posted by tern (Member # 7429) on :
Apology accepted, you are very gracious.
My point is that it is the first time that the GOP and the administration has attacked on this tack. You're absolutely right, plenty of conservative commentators have already made the point already. Unfortunately, most of those guys preach to the choir (like me) and don't have significant impact on people outside of their usual readers. When was the last time that Ann Coulter influenced people in the middle? Other than to join the Democrats?
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote: Although most conservatives (including myself) have felt that the GOP was not nearly as proactive in pushing their agenda (P.R.-wise) as the Democrats were, nor nearly as effective. .... Unfortunately, most of those guys preach to the choir (like me) and don't have significant impact on people outside of their usual readers. When was the last time that Ann Coulter influenced people in the middle?
The perception for some time, tern, has been that the GOP uses those commentators to reach the edges of the middle, and then relies on the media to report their agenda to the middle. Since they've copped to this strategy in leaked memos, I see no reason not to assume that it's what they do.
Most non-Republicans have assumed for years that right-wing commentators are an unofficial arm of the GOP press machine; they're certainly the core of the GOP strategy. Posted by DarkKnight (Member # 7536) on :
Oh, yeah. They're as pure as the driven snow over there on the Democratic side of the Hill. I mean, they've never had any of their left-wing commentators try to do the exact same thing *rolls eyes* You know better than that, Tom. I just think it is really odd how if someone agrees with the GOP you must be some kind of bought and paid for political hack who has no brain, but somehow the Democrats, who do exactly the same thing, get a pass. I guess I could say that most non-Democrats have assumed for years that press outlets like CNN and the NYTimes are an unofficial arm of the Dems press machine and report exactly what the Dems tell them to
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:You know better than that, Tom.
Yeah, I do. That's why nowhere on this thread did I SAY that. In fact, the only one who's said it so far is you, and I know YOU don't believe it, either.
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quote: I just think it is really odd how if someone agrees with the GOP you must be some kind of bought and paid for political hack
It's worth noting that the Bush administration and the GOP have in fact been caught buying and paying for political hacks.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
quote:Originally posted by dantesparadigm: However the average citizen has no such political interest in the war, and can look at it from a nationalistic or humanitarian view and come to the conclusion that the only outcome we can accept is absolute victory, which is within our grasp.
What do you think of as absolute victory?
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
I can't believe I let myself get sucked into discussing that stupid agitprop. *facepalm*
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