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Taalcon, I'd be interested in hearing more about your experiences with Pimsleur. I've been thinking of getting Pimsleur's Thai language materials. What is it that you like about them so much? How does their approach differ from that of other CD or DVD language learning programs?

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As said above - it's good to use in combination with other materials - but for learning to recognize not only what the language sounds like, but getting used to the basics, and how to apply them, I've encountered none better.

In my Japanese study, I used a textbook to learn grammar and vocab. I used Pimsleur to get used to hearing it and speaking it, and learning additional vocab, and learning to vocally respond. Listening comprehension is very important.

Pimsleur uses native speakers speaking in normal native speed. It's not slowed, dumbed down listening. It can be a little difficult to get the hang of at first, but each lesson keeps reminding you and asking to recall things you learned from previous lessons, so you don't forget.

So yeah - good stuff.

I've enjoyed learning the 'basic meaning' of phrases in Pimsleur, and then in the grammar finally learning the etymology, and what I'm literally saying. Languages are awesome.
 

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Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
I'm thinking simplefied, with my bad luck with learning french I doubt I'll be able to learn an entirely new written language very easily, also there's a reason like a large majority of Chinese were illiterate in dynastic times, isn't there 8000 different characters in Traditional Chinese? Correct me if Im wrong I keep seeing different numbers.

Mandarin, simplefied for now though writting it will be a pain since my hand writing is messy. Good thing my mom has paints and brushes...

Main reasons:

visting china wihtout embarrasing myself

getting a possible job in china and enjoy the food and the scenery

thirdly, to get a Chinese girlfriend and impress her.
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
Blayne, has it ever occurred to you that maybe you're excessively obsessed with China?
 

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Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
 
It's occurred to me, after reading Blayne's fanboy posts about Mao...

But good luck with the language studies, Blayne.
 

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Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Thanks, now whats so obseesive with learning Mandarin? I'm a Computer Science student, there happens to be a demand of IT and english teachers, so whats the problem?

So for the question of symplified vs traditional, what about pinyin, is that done with roman characters?
 

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Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
 
What they did for the simplified characters was take the most complicated of the most common characters, and make them easier to write. There are still the same number of characters in the language, but the ones you would use the most are easier and quicker.

Since your interest is modern China, I would say go with the simplified characters. That way, once you reach a high enough level, you can order books from China to improve your reading comprehension. I have the LotR series and The Hobbit in Mandarin Chinese [/gloat].

Pinyin does use the Roman alphabet. Its chief purpose is teaching you how to pronounce a word. Also, most Chinese-English dictionaries are arranged alphabetically by Pinyin. Pinyin is not a substitute for learning the characters, though. If there are ten words that are all pronounced shi(1st tone), how do you know which one it is? Context sometimes helps, but not always. But each of those words will have different characters.

Oh, and the pinyin is the same whether you are using traditional or simplified characters.

--Mel
 

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Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 

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Since your interest is modern China, I would say go with the simplified characters. That way, once you reach a high enough level, you can order books from China to improve your reading comprehension. I have the LotR series and The Hobbit in Mandarin Chinese [/gloat]. [Wink]

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[/envy]
 

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Posted by oolung (Member # 8995) on :
 
oh my God I don't even want to think of the LOTR in Chinese, with all those names written down in Chinese characters!!!!

I'd recommend STARTING from taking a tutor and THEN proceeding on your own (the best way is to have a grasp of grammar and start reading books even when you don't understand most of them - worked for me). From what I can see, the books available are practically no good (but then there's not a lot of them here in Poland:) )... also, practising with a tutor will help you master the four tones, which is quite hard to do by oneself (and you can end up unconsciously saying 'we're really obscene' instead of 'let's go downstairs')
 

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Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
 
Chinese Speakers
 

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Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
 
I bought the LotR books on Ebay a few years back. I've found that if a film is made of a book, that book is more likely to be translated into other languages and available online.

I checked Ebay yesterday and found two copies of The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe in Chinese. It was a Taiwanese edition, so it was written in tradional characters. Unfortunately, someone else bought it while I was still debating with my husband over whether or not to get it. The covers were gorgeous, though.

--Mel
 

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Posted by oolung (Member # 8995) on :
 
I read an article a few days ago about the guy who translated the LOTR into Chinese... a few years ago there was a site with samples of different translations of the movie (most of them were Asian) and let me tell you: those guys apparently watched a completely different movie which coincidentally might have the same title. So I was just wondering if the book translation is ok.

And how did they translate the elvish poetry? Can you give some examples, please?

Has anyone read any wuxia xiaoshuo?
I'd like to write my thesis about those novels so I found some on the net. Everyone says Jin Yong(or Jimmy Choo) is the best, but I just couldn't bring myself to read more than a few pages of ANY of his books.
 

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Posted by edgardu (Member # 242) on :
 
Do chinese really say ni hao to each other? Where I'm from, we don't, but I wonder do the mainland chinese?
 

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Posted by edgardu (Member # 242) on :
 

quote:

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Has anyone read any wuxia xiaoshuo?
I'd like to write my thesis about those novels so I found some on the net. Everyone says Jin Yong(or Jimmy Choo) is the best, but I just couldn't bring myself to read more than a few pages of ANY of his books.

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go to www.spcnet.tv

There are many ongoing translations in the forum plus links to other translations. Gu Long is easier to read than Jin Yong. They are the 2 most popular authors.
 

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Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
 
Well, my Chinese teacher was from somewhere north of Beijing, and she told us that nihao was a standard greeting. She also said that you should not say both nihao and nihao ma? You should choose one or the other.

oolung, let me go see if I can track down some Elvish poetry. I'm not at a high enough level yet to read the books myself, so I have no idea how good the translation was.

--Mel
 

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Posted by oolung (Member # 8995) on :
 
thanks, edgardu and theCrowsWife

nihao ma means HOW are you (with the stress on the question), and nihao is just the plain how are you, hello, etc, just a greeting.

I think they also say wei.
edgardu, so how do you greet eachother?
(and can I ask what is the mysterious place you come from? )
 

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Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
 
From Part 2, Chapter 1, "Many Meetings"

The poem about Earendil, the first two stanzas. Here is the English text:

quote:

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Earendil was a mariner
that tarried in Arvernien;
he built a boat of timber felled
in Nimbrethil to journey in;
her sails he wove of silver fair
of silver were her lanterns made,
her prow was fashioned like a swan,
and light upon her banners laid.

In panoply of ancient kings,
in chained rings he armoured him;
his shining shield was scored with runes
to ward all wounds and harm from him;
his bow was made of dragon-horn,
his arrows shorn of ebony;
of silver was his habergeon,
his scabbard of chalcedony;
his sword of steel was valiant,
of adamant his helmet tall,
an eagle-plume upon his crest
upon his breast an emerald.

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And here is the Chinese version, scanned from my book. I'm assuming you can read the characters.

--Mel
 

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Posted by edgardu (Member # 242) on :
 
Nothing mysterious , just thought it might be too much to explain. I'm from the Philippines. I speak one of the Fujian dialects - my grandparents came from there. Di ho (nihao in fujian) would sound weird. People don't say that in fujianese. Di ho bo (nihao ma) would only be asked if you're really interested in the answer and only to someone close to you. Less formal variations would be di chungwa lo a or di tse tsin chungwa a (sort of What's up or How's it going). It all depends on the context. On being introduced to someone, a smile and a nod is sufficient. When conducting business with someone, you can greet them by name or by name and title to be more formal. There's no generic greeting like "How are you".

When people greet you with "how are you" here in the US, they don't really expect an answer, right? It took me a while to figure that out.

btw, I don't know that Jin Yong is ever referred to as Jimmy Choo. His western name is commonly given as Louis Cha.
 

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Posted by oolung (Member # 8995) on :
 
uuups, my mistake here... Jimmy Choo is, if I remember right, a title of a Hongkong gore movie I was writing in a hurry

As for the dialects: that's one of the irritating things in Chinese. People say: wow, you can go anywhere in this huge country and understand everybody! Well... not exactly

theCrowsWife, thanks for the poem... sounds a bit weird...

Has anyone ever used the infamous Gubo&Palanka textbooks? Quite an indoctrination... (part 2 lesson 1, new words: the 4 modernizations, socialism etc. hilarious!)
 

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Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
 
I thought of one more thing, Blayne. When you're ready to hire a tutor (or take a class), be sure to have a male teacher. Chinese is a tonal language, and it's much easier to learn the proper pronunciation if you can imitate your teacher exactly. My teacher was a woman, and all of the men in the class had a hard time with pronunciation. They weren't capable of speaking at such a high pitch, but they also tended to lose the tones when they shifted down to their own pitch.

Plus, just listening to language tapes has shown me that there are differences in the way men and women speak Chinese. Especially given your third reason for learning, I doubt that you would want to end up speaking like a girl .

--Mel
 

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Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
 
Don't take an immersion course. At least not if you have anything else going on in your life.
 

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Posted by oolung (Member # 8995) on :
 
on the other hand, it seems to me that Chinese women tend to have much clearer pronounciation than men. Men very often 'lisp'. So if you rely only on how a tutor speaks you can end up pronouncing a 'shi' as a 'si' etc. As for the differences between male/female language, I think that a proper tutor should be able to cope with that...
 

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Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Also if she's pretty and likes my personality I can date her
 

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Posted by oolung (Member # 8995) on :
 
yup, that's another advantage. two birds with one stone.

Although (and I'm very sorry to disillusion you) my friends who spent some time in China say that it's actually quite rare to see a really pretty Chinese girl (except the ones that can afford surgery, in which case they surely don't need to give classes to foreigners).
But beauty lies in the eye of the beholder, so don't give in, Blayne! <thumbs up>
 

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Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
lol, doesn't matter, I don't exper to find one who is extremely hot yet like me for who I am/potential to be, I'm okay with finding a woman who rocks my world and is beautiful to my perception.
 

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