What did the Hatrack Supreme Court do Wrong? Send in your responses now.
[ January 26, 2006, 09:48 PM: Message edited by: Advent 115 ]
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
I confess the sin of wrath, for I felt a terrible anger burning in my belly when I saw that you'd misspelled Confessional.
Oh, and the sin of hummer-sexiality.
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
You are forgivin my child, go in peace.
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
My children remember that absolution is truly a reward unto itself.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
I am watching The Pagemaster .
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
.....You are forgivin my child, are there any other sins you would like to confess?
Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
I confess to the sin of starting multiple pointlessly self-indulgent threads which cast myself in an imagined position of authority and/or superiority, instead of just participating in any one of the actual discussions as an equal member.
Oh wait, that isn't MY sin. Oops.
--Enigmatic
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
*snicker*
E - you's awright.
space opera
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:I confess to the sin of starting multiple pointlessly self-indulgent threads which cast myself in an imagined position of authority and/or superiority, instead of just participating in any one of the actual discussions as an equal member.
Oh wait, that isn't MY sin. Oops.
But hark! Whose sin, then, could it be?! And why hasn't Hatrack been largely ignoring said threads, resulting in most (if not all) of the posts coming from primarily 1 or 2 members?!
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
Yes my child, I was once guilty of such sins, that is why I have choosen to renounce such things and seek to help others.
Is that such a horrible thing, to wish to make up for my sins?
By listening to others sins perhaps I can aid them by telling them of my own.
And you are forgivin my child for your hatred, perhaps you can learn from my mistakes.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Yes my child, I was once guilty of such sins, that is why I have choosen to renounce such things and seek to help others.
This thread's very existence says otherwise.
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
.....You have no respect for anyones faith, fo you?
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:.....You have no respect for anyones faith, fo you?
...sometimes, I wonder if you think about what you're saying before you say it.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
Except this has nothing to do with religion and you, most likely, are not a minister of any faith.
Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
And the pitch flies right over Advent's head once again, but erosomniac hits it out of the park!
And incidentally, this isn't even close to hatred. This is bemused disdain and snark.
--Enigmatic
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
I don't see what any of this has to do with Christ. Or why you feel that you have the power and responsibilty of forgiving someone of their sins.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:You're really the anti-christ aren't you? Or are you really Osama Bin Ladin?
I wash my hands of this.
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
I must call the CIA and inform them that I've located you, you have fallen for my trap Osama!
Haha! (Bruce Willis better pay up).
Posted by Astaril (Member # 7440) on :
What I don't get is why he keeps saying other people are forgivin' his kid for something or other. What did his child do to them? It is nice to know that your children have good memorization skills, Advent, but I don't get why they need forgiven every time someone says something in here.
Posted by Astaril (Member # 7440) on :
What the heck? Why would you change the title and first post now??
Wait. You know what? I don't want to know.
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
Thats right, walk away while you still can.
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
That's probably the lowest trick in the book, for whatever reason. Not sure what your purpose is here, but usually when someone edits the original post completely, it's to recast all the latter posts in that light and vindicate themself. Nobody's fooled by it.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
Well heck, now I'm curious what the original post said. Morbidly curious I suppose.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
Look at me! Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
quote:Originally posted by Advent 115: What did the Hatrack Supreme Court do Wrong? Send in your responses now.
Okay, since I was one of the ones being snarky here I'll step up to try to explain. If you seriously want to understand why everybody is so flippant to your threads, I recommend calming down a bit and lurking for a while. Go read some threads. There's some fluff, there's some serious debate, there's some inbetween. Actually read other people's posts.
Take a deep breath and try NOT starting a new thread every time you have an idea. Participate in a discussion. Don't always try to be a judge, or a lawmaker, or an absolver of sins. Don't try to dominate the discussion. Just discuss.
There's nothing wrong with a silly thread like this... but stop taking it so seriously! There are plenty of threads where we play around. Come play with us. We don't bite. Hard. Except when we do!
--Enigmatic
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
Awwww, bite me! But not hard, please.
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
That may be true, but I type faster than I think (or is that talk before I think).
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
See the Add Reply button? Don't use it until you have thought about your post.
I write many posts that are never seen by anyone but me. Not every post that is written must be posted.
And if you realize AFTER you've posted that you probably should not have, you know where the edit/delete option is. (Just don't go deleting threads (which happens if you delete the first post) willy-nilly, as it annoys many folks around here.)
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
"I write many posts that are never seen by anyone but me. Not every post that is written must be posted."
That's good advice. I could use that in real life. Except, substitute speaking for posting.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
I actually did that with this thread. In fact, I could do it with this post. But that would defeat the entire point of this post. And I'm aiming to reach 1000 posts before I graduate, so every little one counts, right? Posted by sarcare (Member # 8736) on :
I pretty sure that deleting posts does not decrease your post count, so you don't have to worry about that!
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
I know it doesn't. I've tested it out. hehe. But erasing them before they've been posted ... ummm ... stagnates my post count. And hey, sarcare, since I'm in another derailing mood, I'm thinking about attempting a double major in History and Marketing. Does that sound completely outrageous?
Posted by sarcare (Member # 8736) on :
no it sounds like a good idea. If you have a scholarship that is paying for school, I see no reason to rush out, and that combination will show prospective employers that you are well rounded, and that you are good with a variety of types of information. It will help your writing skills, and I think will be fun as well.
I still recomend language training as absolutely important, I know cause I didn't do it enough and now I am suffering for it. Get more then the minimum language training, go to the country and learn even more.
A high school friend of mine had an internship in London while she was in college, which was apparently very fun. I had an internship in a museum in D.C. for a semester, and there are lots of interesting opportunities that you can create in college. It is just so much fun *yippie for college*
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
Just out of curiousity, if you had to recommend a language, which would it be?
Posted by sarcare (Member # 8736) on :
I like German, even though I am currently cursing it. But it depends on what you are interested in, don't learn a language just because it would be profitable, but don't discount that factor. If you want to travel or work in international business choose one that would be helpful. Spanish, French, German tend to be taught every quarter at even the smallest schools, but Russian, Japanese, Mandarin, Italian, or any number of languages might prove useful or interesting.
Posted by Swampjedi (Member # 7374) on :
Is it just me, or are these threads growing like fungus? Rather self-absorbed fungus?
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
Hey! We have a nice derail going on here. Do you have anything to add on a helpful language to learn? I was thinking Arabic would be good seeing as how I could get a job in the government pretty easily. But I don't particularly enjoy the language or the culture, so it might not be a good idea.
Posted by Friday (Member # 8998) on :
Is Klingon an option?
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
I think Elvish is more of a developed language, from the research I've done. At least, I've been able to find a reasonably comprehensive Elvish dictionary while only sketchy Klingon dictionaries. And I should say, I'm referring to Tolkien Elvish, and that I'm a much bigger LOTR fan than Star Trek fan.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
I have to agree with Dr. Strangelove. Both of Tolkein's Elvish languages are cool, although only one of them was anywhere near fully developed if I remember correctly.
Posted by Swampjedi (Member # 7374) on :
Language? Java is always useful.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Swampjedi: Language? Java is always useful.
To heck with that. C++ is so much cooler, or maybe python.
Posted by Swampjedi (Member # 7374) on :
C++ is outdated, but still useful. Python is pretty cool, though.
Java though... you can do well with Java.
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
quote:C++ is outdated, but still useful. Python is pretty cool, though.
Java though... you can do well with Java.
Oh brother. Not ANOTHER one of you high level types.
C++ is not outdated. C/C++ is still used for almost ALL high powered applications. Java is too slow for them. Its nice for cross platform stuff that doesn't require much in the way of power, speed or efficiency, but for anything else C++ is the way to go.
Python's a great scripting language. But that's all it is, a scripting language. It is NOT for writing high speed or efficient code intended for powerful programs. Its a great scripting add on to C/C++ programs though.
But dude... if you want a really good language...
...Assembly is totally the way to go
*runs*
Posted by Swampjedi (Member # 7374) on :
Preaching to the choir, Alcon. I know all these things.
Java will get you a job, fast. Java jobs are increasing rapidly. C, not so much.
Believe it or not, I have to learn Ada for the job I'm taking.
And hey, I love assembler. I wrote a Pong clone for the NES (emulated) in pure 6502 assembler.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Alcon: surprisingly enough, there's lots of python numeric code that benchmarks nearly as fast as a pure C++ implementation, and is much easier to write, due to efficiently implemented libraries. Its also used quite popularly for writing very large applications; the notion of a "scripting language" has mostly disappeared with modern languages, beyond that there are some languages clearly not useful for scripting; those languages that are useful for scripting tend to be powerful enough for many other uses. Even many programs with a C++ core and python capabilities aren't using it for just scripting -- they're writing a few core libraries in C++ then writing the app itself in python.
As for C++ running almost all high powered applications, considering a significant portion of all web application infrastructure runs java, that's something of a definition game at best. For by far most purposes, its plenty fast, more than powerful enough (it certainly has much better high level libraries than C++ does), and sufficiently efficient. It often benchmarks at only two or three times slower than C++ apps, with much, much faster development times; most of the perceived slowness is due to implementation issues with the GUI libraries.
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
Dude, Fugu, 2 to 3 times slower is A LOT slower. And yes there are some libraries, where if you write the program just right, it just about matches C++. But on the whole Java is much slower than C++. And it doesn't have pointers or low level memory handling. And that I cannot forgive. It is too high level. Python has the same problem. Put pointers in Java... heh, and it'll become C++ So I stand by what I said: Java is wonderful for things needing to be cross platform (IE web) and things that need quick development but not a whole lot of speed or memory efficiency. But you wanna write a good efficient program, write it in C++.
quote:Java will get you a job, fast. Java jobs are increasing rapidly. C, not so much.
Believe it or not, I have to learn Ada for the job I'm taking.
Damn fads My condolences on having to learn Ada... good heavens. Good luck with it.
quote: And hey, I love assembler. I wrote a Pong clone for the NES (emulated) in pure 6502 assembler.
Nice *approves*
Posted by SenojRetep (Member # 8614) on :
One of my profs once said (speaking of C, not C++) "C combines all the power and flexibility of assembly language, with all the intuitiveness and ease of use of assembly language."
I don't program, I hack (in the denigrating sense), and I only use Matlab.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
In the commercial world, it's almost always better to double your server specs (not that you'd actually have to double the server specs to make up for any C++ speed advantage) and halve (or better) development time by using a high level language.
Especially when you consider the cost of developing future versions.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
No, two to three times slower is not a lot. Also, web does not mean cross-platform, almost all those java server applications are run on Linux machines; the benefit isn't from being cross-platform, its from the huge supplies of killer web application libraries that C++ doesn't have anything near good enough for.
Amusingly enough, C# has a similar slowdown to java -- guess what language MS is using as a primary development language for their next generation OS? I mean, the version of Office for Longhorn is being written in C#.
edit: not to mention that, that speed difference is for a well written C++ app versus a well written Java app. That java app will take three to five times less time to write and have fewer bugs, particularly fewer exploitable bugs; one can then take more time to ensure the app is bug free and efficient. C++ apps turned out in a similar period of time will often be slower because they weren't written as well with as much time to spend on code checking.
[ January 27, 2006, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: fugu13 ]
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
It doesn't take THAT much more time to write in C++. Not if you know what your doing. Java doesn't offer a whole lot of speed advantage, python does but Java, not much. There's some advantage in Java not having to track down memory bugs. But if you know what you're doing with C++ you should be able to write your classes so you never have memory bugs in the first place.
And the library problem could be fixed easily enough in C++ with a few good developers with time on their hands. Then you'd have the speed, ease of use of Java and the flexibility of C++.
But really, you can argue all you want, but until Java allows memory handling and pointers I cannot forgive it. C++ just wins for that, and will until high level language developers realize you cannot remove lower level stuff completely. You have to allow access to it.
And C# and MS don't count in these considerations. We all know MS is evil. Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:It doesn't take THAT much more time to write in C++. Not if you know what your doing. Java doesn't offer a whole lot of speed advantage, python does but Java, not much. There's some advantage in Java not having to track down memory bugs. But if you know what you're doing with C++ you should be able to write your classes so you never have memory bugs in the first place.
It's the libraries that make development so much faster. It's the memory management that makes debugging so much faster.
Further, in the real world, you have to deal with developers who rush to leave by 5 on Friday, who are worried about their sick kid, or who know they are leaving in 3 months.
The benefit of computers is that they perform rule-based tasks more consistently than humans. Programmers as much as accountants should take advantage of this.
quote:And the library problem could be fixed easily enough in C++ with a few good developers with time on their hands. Then you'd have the speed, ease of use of Java and the flexibility of C++.
But they don't exist yet, and the presence of memory management and lack of pointers means the libraries in C++ are more likely to bring down the application.
quote:But really, you can argue all you want, but until Java allows memory handling and pointers I cannot forgive it. C++ just wins for that, and will until high level language developers realize you cannot remove lower level stuff completely. You have to allow access to it.
Most apps do not require low-level access.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
A few good developers? Alcon, there are plenty of good C++ developers. Note the lack of libraries. Consider that the top several java libraries are the results of literally millions of man hours of programming, often by some of the best programmers in the world.
edit: oh, and strangely, MS doesn't think Office needs all that low level control.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
*Exulting in the glorious derailment*
My dad actually suggested I minor in Computer Science. It's always been something I've thought of as interesting but out of my league. How do you go about learning a programming language? And is it very hard? Methinks from listening to all this that it would trump Arabic for employability.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Actually, a combination of Arabic and a programming language would make you extremely employable.
Knowing a programming language is nice, but its more important to know how to program. Even many CS majors never pick that up, despite knowing a couple of programming languages.
Good programming is very much an art.
A CS minor can be pretty fun, just make sure you spend some time learning how to program in your spare time; read up on best practices, read articles really good programmers write.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
Could you recommend anything specific? I'm looking for something useful to obsess over and this might be just the thing.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Heh. I think starting to program with either Python or Ruby would be a good place, nowadays.
edit: to start learning python, go to python.org (link is to introductory material).
For ruby, the Ruby Book will be good when you know more programming, but you might start with one of these:
![[Evil Laugh]](graemlins/evillaugh.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
So I stand by what I said: Java is wonderful for things needing to be cross platform (IE web) and things that need quick development but not a whole lot of speed or memory efficiency. But you wanna write a good efficient program, write it in C++.![[Wink]](wink.gif)
My condolences on having to learn Ada... good heavens. Good luck with it.