This is topic Practical Philosophy of Life in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.


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Posted by Alex Johansen (Member # 9090) on :
 
a convo me and a friend had recently

i talk about a few things

- life and how pointless it is, but also if you think about what i say about dying, why you SHOULDNT kill yourself, if your getting that idea

- classifications of... EVERYTHING really

- how we are sometimes impolite without meaning to be (kind of something i use with a metaphor like "our friends poison the dagger most when they mean to least" kind of got me thinking of this when my gf didnt hug me in another thread, also she broke up with me yesterday)

-please excuse the harsh words


My friend ///////////////
Hey you
Me:
Happy Valentine's Day
My friend ///////////////
....Not really
My friend ///////////////
what are you up to?
Me:
just thinking about how pointless life is
Me:
and how inconsiderate people are
Me:
without even knowing they ar ebeing inconsiderate
Me:
like i was today
Me:
i turned down a candy when someone was giving it out to the entire class
Me:
thats impolite
Me:
you think your being nice
Me:
by not taking it
Me:
but really
Me:
thats an insult
Me:
and also
Me:
when soemoen greets you with "happy so and so"
Me:
and your a bitch
Me:
and say
Me:
"not really"
Me:
then your a bitch
My friend ///////////////
i turned down candy all the time, mostly becaue it was choholate
My friend ///////////////
well its not a happy day for me
My friend ///////////////
im sorry
Me:
but you tell them its because chocolate makes you sick
Me:
well
Me:
then you say
My friend ///////////////
it doesnt make me sick it makes my lips big
Me:
"happy v-day to you too, but man my day has sucked"
Me:
big lips are hot
Me:
so eat chocolate
My friend ///////////////
theyre painful
Me:
well then dont eat it
Me:
doesnt matter
Me:
either way you die
My friend ///////////////
...
My friend ///////////////
Im worried about you Alex, your freaking me out
Me:
i dont mean to
Me:
im just saying
Me:
you know how people sya "in the end everything is alright"
Me:
thats quite wrong
Me:
in the end you die
Me:
****ing retards
My friend ///////////////
thats what makes it alright
Me:
people whine about "infancy deaths" and "abortion" and "suicide"
Me:
thats so ****ed up
Me:
have tehy looked at population charts
My friend ///////////////
when you die you have no more emotions none to make you happy or depressed
Me:
why are they trying to kill the planet and themselves
Me:
people are idiots, and they try to save the lives of idiots that cant even think for themselves
Me:
if your mentally retarded you should be chopped up and made into hot dogs
Me:
survival of the fittest
My friend ///////////////
Hey now
Me:
every year they should have a race
Me:
every age group can join
Me:
if you cant keep up
Me:
your made into a giant hamburger that the winners of the race eat
My friend ///////////////
ewww
My friend ///////////////
Such morbid thoughtson a day of love
Me:
when you die you dissapear
Me:
your existence is over
Me:
along with your past, your memories, your current life style, your future
Me:
your hopes and dreams and goals all vanish
Me:
the only way you survive is through other peoples memories
Me:
which isnt so good
Me:
since you dont even exist to know they are remembering you
Me:
its so sad
Me:
a day of love
Me:
thats such crap
Me:
there are always going to be more people without a girlfriend, boyfriend, lover, etc than there are, or if you count marriages
My friend ///////////////
its beltain, in short a festival of sex
My friend ///////////////

Me:
there will always be more people that dont give a crap/treat today like normal than there are that care and go all out
Me:
its the law of eliteness
Me:
i thought of this law one day
Me:
in order for there to be "smart" there has to be "stupid" and of course there susually an inbetween or "average"
Me:
same with upper middle and lowerclass
Me:
rich, steady, poor
Me:
fast, normal, slow
Me:
there have to be less fast
Me:
most normal
Me:
and then a few more than "less" and a few less than "most" of average
Me:
anyways
Me:
its all stupid
Me:
classes
Me:
ratings
Me:
eliteness
Me:
just a competition really
Me:
humans are competitive
Me:
were so bored
Me:
were bore dout of our minds
Me:
thats why we gossip
Me:
another competition
Me:
to get ourselves one more "status point" (if you will) than the person we are gossiping about
Me:
its just some stuff ive been keeping in my head for a while

Also, suicide isnt the answer, because as you have read, when you die, your only depressing all your friends and family, and that is truly what matters most in life. More than pointless money (althought it helps you buy food and crap, other than that it serves no purpose, just another competition, just another way to buy "nice things" so you can be higher in the social standing), and stupid cars, and maybe even education. After all, do not mentally handicapped people have friends too? And aren't they happy?

Don't think of me as being critical, this was originally just me venting after a long and hard day.

I know a "special" person personally, and I don't think they should really be slaughtered, maybe the ones that just sit there in a close to vegetative state (and even then, not slaughtered, maybe lethal injection or something, but without the lethality, that way, like the pequinos in the Ender series, our dead can serve us some good. (Hotdogs anyone?)

Okay, the hotdogs thing is a joke, I'm no cannibal, but still, we gotta find a use for our useless people.

I know this one "gangster" kid at my school, he's about 300 pounds, and he tries to act tough, hes fat, not strong, he doesn't do anything, he's in ROTC, he never wears his uniform and doesn't PT, THAT IS THE ONLY TYPE OF PERSON IM TALKING ABOUT WHEN I SAY USELESS

in fact, just to make it clear here is the criteria, you must be able to say yes to all of this

- you serve no usefulness and contribute nothing to society
- you dont have a job, and have not had a job in the last 6 months and arent searching for one
- you are over the age of 25 (i figure 6 years is plenty of time to find out your plan for life, if you cant find it out by then, then youve been doing something wrong (like drugs and alcohol, blowing other peoples money and being a nuisance))
- you arent considered "nice" (not sure how to measure this, but by nice i believe you should have at least 25 people who can vouch for you, this is of course a theoretical way of calculating niceness, after all people can be bribed to vouch, and you smile or wave or greet 5 or so people a day, 4 times a week at least, this allows for a "bad week/day" that doesnt exceed half the week)

thats about all i think

Sorry for the lengthy post, sorry for being an ass, sorry if i offended you

[ February 14, 2006, 08:07 PM: Message edited by: Alex Johansen ]
 

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Posted by Alex Johansen (Member # 9090) on :
 
I really think I should delete this before someone reads it, I am really way out of line in this.....
 

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Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
Or you could repost it in a readable format. I doubt anybody's going to try and decipher it as is.
 

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Posted by Alex Johansen (Member # 9090) on :
 
ok, i tried, i hope people can read it
 

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Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
 
Capitalization, punctuation, sentences, and paragraphs help a lot.
 

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Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
 
Life doesn't have to be pointless
I hate my life today, but it doesn't mean that I want to die... I am just caught up in a futile sort of situation and there's nothing that can be done about it and it makes me so MAD.
Also I hate waiting and should learn patience, but I don't want to.
But, it's still rather good to be alive... Life is just... filled with possibilities.
 

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Posted by Alex Johansen (Member # 9090) on :
 
Dude, its a conversation! not a research paper :*(

Get off my back. :*(

-EDIT-
in reply to synth.

Life isn't pointless, I know I said that, but I just mean, in the end we die, we have hopes and dreams though, so we should try not to die, we have to protect our hopes, dreams, and the people we care about, NOTHING is more important, and I mean nothing, if you have a drema you ahve to try to acheive it, make your drema come true, and not make long run-on sentences like I am.

Also, life is 10% what happens to you and how people treat you and 90% how you react to it, keep a smile on your face and youll be fine.

I try to live an exhuberant/happy/passive existence

My ideal personality/reaction to most things would have to be an "Ender" type perspective, only witha smile the entire time, as if i find it funny how people work and think and get so bent up over the silliest things.

Either that or a Kakashi (from naruto) take on everything, bored, but some things make you raise your eyebrow(s).

But in some situations I would like to be able to sit in a corner jsut barely noticeable watching what people do as if I'm just a spectator (also, like Ender, but just later in the series like in CotM- wait, have I totally revolved my life around a religion of Naruto and Ender???? I mean my fphilophies are that life is precious as proved in the Ender series, but we also have to fight for our dreams as proved in Naruto, and also that our friends and family are the most precious things as proved by both Ender and Naruto, and also that in order to acheieve your drema you have to be like Rock Lee and train night and day and never give up, and never quit, set the bar higher everytime you wake up, then when you dont reach teh bar, start over with the bar even higher. But I digress, if you lost track I was just talking about sitting like a spectator in a corner) with an expressionless face, possibly my eyes closed as if I'm taking what everyone says in and then mulling it over

[ February 14, 2006, 08:22 PM: Message edited by: Alex Johansen ]
 

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Posted by Geekazoid99 (Member # 8254) on :
 
WOW
i had i conversation like that once my friend got me to shut up pretty quickly on that one. never got to the killing the useless type stuff only the life is useless in the end you die no point type stuff yet its really depressing to read Ugh
 

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Posted by Alex Johansen (Member # 9090) on :
 
Sorry, man I really didn't intend for it to be depressing, more insightful, I guess I don't have a way with words like (here comes another Naruto reference) Iruka-sensei (if you watch Naruto, watch episode 80, at the Third's funeral
 

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Posted by Geekazoid99 (Member # 8254) on :
 
Didn't mean it as if it was depressing

it was insightful and thought provoking
i was just mentioning how i've had thoughts like that before
 

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Posted by lildipper101 (Member # 8860) on :
 
I think everyone has had thoughts like that before. There's good days and bad days. Bye the way when you say there should be a race and everyone can join and those that keep up should be made into hotdogs or something like that. lol check out "The Long Walk" by Stephen King its kind of the story line..without the hot dogs.
 

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Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
 
I... Wow. You'd think I'd have a coherent response to idiocy like this before now. Except all my careful and reasoned responses immediately get flushed down the toilet of sheer disbelief.

Retarded people chopped up into hotdogs? Dude, the joke's not even FUNNY.

Wow. Um.

No, you don't have a "special" friend. You sound just like those people who say "I'm not racist, I have a n***** for a friend!" You aren't a friend to someone like that.

One of my closest and dearest friends has Down Syndrome. She is right down there in my heart with my so-called normal friends. My landmark tells some of the story. So perhaps you can understand why I might not find you funny. Nor witty. Nor very wise at all, but rather ignorant. Basically, I read your post and I have two options. I can read and get angry, or I can read and pat you on the head and regard you more or less the same way you regard "retards." Well, perhaps a bit better. I have no desire kill you, but I feel a mixture of pity and resignation, tinged with the slight hope that someday you will learn not to be a ignorant child.

Have a nice day.
 

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Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
 
Alex, your posts have made me so angry. I've been sitting here for about five minutes trying to reply to your "points" (note the use of quotation marks to indicate sarcasm) in a rational, intellectual way, but I cannot.

Thought provoking? Oh, you provoked some thoughts, all right. The main one in my head right now is "How the h*ll can anyone think like that?".
 

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Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
 
Oh, one more thing...

Eaquae siad that he/she has no desire to kill you. I gotta say, I do have that desire, but because I don't believe that my stupid arbitrary judgements of people should dictate the law, you shouldn't worry. I don't want to give you "lethal injections without the lethality", whatever that means.
 

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Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
 
>>>>keep a smile on your face and youll be fine.

It's all about attitude! You silly people out there who think you have problems, just look on the bright side, show those teeth, and everything will work out! The only thing keeping you from sucess is yourself!
 

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Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
 
>>>>>>this was originally just me venting after a long and hard day.

Silly Alex! Looks like *you* forgot to just look on the bright side! Who cares if your girlfriend broke up with you? Smile! It's funny! Just another of those silly things that people care about. It's 90% about reaction. Looks like you're in a bad mood because of your reaction. Go on, smile! Follow your own advice!
 

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Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
 
>>>>>I don't think they should really be slaughtered

I see I was wrong about you...
 

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Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
 
People have such a need to say outrageous things and then stand by them. It's the darndest thing.

Anyway, all's I can say is that I'm glad sndrake isn't here to read this. Actually, I wish sndrake was here and this wasn't, but you can't have it all.
 

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Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
 
>>>>>we gotta find a use for our useless people.

Maybe you're right, maybe we should just kill all those pesky useless people. Hey, I know! Let's make all useless people wear markings of some kind, and then lets take them all to one place where they will work, or if they can't work we'll just kill them. Then, when we run out of work for them to do, we can put them in gas chambers and then have the rest of the previously useless workers incinerate the bodies and make soap from all that tallow! It's a brilliant idea!

Hey, maybe we can even experiment on the useless people's bodies before they die, so that we can learn more about medicine to help *useful* people without having to torture or kill or degrade any human beings that matter.

What d'ya think, Alex?
 

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Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
 
She, Princess.

BtL, I wish he were here, too. I can never make my point as clearly as he can. I'm too easily flushed.
 

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Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
 
>>>>>I really think I should delete this before someone reads it, I am really way out of line in this.....

Huh.


*leaves to scream into pillow and punch walls*
 

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Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
 
Well, I'm getting quite tired of these disappearing threads, so unless Papa Janitor scraps it, I'll repost it.
 

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Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
 
I don't post as much anymore and I'm not as familiar with forum members as I used to be, so I'm not sure where Alex is coming from with all this. But it seems to me the reactions are a little strong.

What he posted was a train of thought. And thoughts are just that...thoughts. His thoughts aren't so different from thoughts I've had on occassion. I don't see what's wrong with following a train of thought. Even if you don't agree with it or believe it. I find that the best way to refute an idea is to think it out completely, see where it goes, like you're coming at it from a different perspective, someone elses. Then evaluate it and see if it stands up. There's nothing inherently wrong with dark/depressing/morally ambiguous trains of thought.

Those types of thoughts only become dangerous under certain circumstances. Like when those thoughts aren't examined and then acted upon. Where people can get hurt and lives affected. Or even worse(I believe) when those thoughts ARE examined and still found to stand up. When the person really and truly believes in whatever it is and acts upon those thoughts with even more conviction in what they are doing. Like Hitler...an extremely intelligent man who truly believed his lunacy.

It seems to me that if you disagree with the ideas Alex brings up, the best way to handle the situation is to try to show him where he is ignorant on a particular issue, offer a different perspective that he hasn't thought of. I mean, this IS a forum. And he did start a thread for, i presume, discussion of his ideas. If he never shared those thoughts, and no one was ever able to discuss them with him, then maybe they would just sit in his head and fester till those thoughts negatively affected himself and those around him.

I think he brings up some interesting points about life/existence/purpose/the way the world is. I also think that if you're serious about some of the more extreme ideas in that train of thought Alex, that you need to think about them more and re-evaluate them.
 

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Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
 
Alex,

What are you doing, personally, to improve your world? If you're going to be this concerned with things outside your control, then you may as well become a hermit now. I know the feelings you're talking about; they can be difficult to manage, but the three strategies I find work well are:
1. Overly violent video games.
2. pointless comedy (Family Guy, Invader Zim, almost anything on Adult Swim do it for me).
3. Give in, wallow, ride it out, get over it. Preferably to a suitable soundtrack.

Also, insight usually has a point to it. I'm not a grammar nazi by any means, but really...if you had condensed that stream of conciousness into something that at least resembled a linear thought pattern, it would help us be able to help you. I mean, the absolute LEAST you could've done was edit out lines like "Big lips are hot," "so eat chocolate."
The ranting, recanting, redundancy, and lack of any refined thought or conclusion make this post near useless. And "useless people should be made into useful people or things" does not, and should not qualify.

Next time you feel like writing something like this, read your post before you post it. You don't need to give it the full editorial work-over, but walk away from your computer for a few minutes, come back, and skim it.
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
Alex, how much of that did you actually mean?
 

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Posted by Alex Johansen (Member # 9090) on :
 
most of it, not the hotdog thing, that was just one of many solutions, we could make useless people into useful things without murder too, like we could give them something like the genetic changes that Bean received at birth, only it would have to be by choice, you know humanitarian and all.

Or we could give "useless" people mechanical bodies that could do heavy lifting, so they could work in construction or something, maybe even custom suits that protect them from radiation, like robots, only... with "real" brains instead of AI.

I want to thank everyone for responding, even those who want to kill me now, after all, if everyone agreed or at least understood my ideas then I wouldn't be able ot refine them (like the idea of genetic mutation and/or robot bodies, hell! give me a robot body or genetic mutations! i want to be super strong like the bionic man or super intelligent like Ender or Bean!)
 

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Posted by Alex Johansen (Member # 9090) on :
 
So, noone wants to yell at me anymore?
 

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Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
 
Alex,

I think you are making a mistake - you seem to be assuming that being "useless" is the same as being "worthless". I don't agree with that, by the definition of "useless" you gave.

Babies, for instance, are useless. They contribute nothing at all to society, and cost a whole lot of work. Does that mean they are worthless? No. Someday most babies will become useful, so that is one thing that would make them worthwhile. But even more than that, babies are simply worthwhile for their own sake. Even if they will never grow up and achieve anything, they are still worth a lot and are loved by their family, don't you think? I don't see why your certain "gangsta" kid is any different. Maybe he contributes nothing to society and maybe he isn't nice, but does that mean he is worthless? I suspect he is worth a lot to those who care about him - and I suspect even he has the potential to someday become very useful and achieve great things. (By the way, believe it or not, 6 years is often not even close to enough time to plan out your life and start achieving something truly worthwhile. Sometimes it takes people until they are 90 years old before they achieve something great, but that doesn't mean they weren't worth waiting that time.)

Life is not pointless. You can see this for sure just by looking at the happy people out there. SOME people are happy! That means that for them, they must have found a point to it all. I believe that part of figuring out how to be happy is understanding that your worth is not decided by your usefuless - you could fail at everything and still be a valuable person living a worthwhile life. Ultimately, all you need to do to be worthwhile is live, and attempt to be useful.

I think this philosophy is more practical.
 

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Posted by Alex Johansen (Member # 9090) on :
 
when i use the word useless throughout this post it is used to say

quote:

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Okay, the hotdogs thing is a joke, I'm no cannibal, but still, we gotta find a use for our useless people.

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quote:

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we could make useless people into useful things without murder too

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quote:

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how about if when your 21 you have to contribute 10 hours a month to building homes or working on a community farm that provides vegetables and stuff for people.

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quote:

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if not then read up on the ironman competition, make eveyone learn about their story, theyll get inspied and be able to make a decision within 6 years, if they dont, there is no decision to be made, and they will not ever contribue to society

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quote:

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thats my definition of useful

contributing to the greater good.

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Here's my question though: Is useless the same thing us worthless? Is your worth as a person just determined by your success in contributing to the greater good?

I don't think it is.
 

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Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
 
Yeah, I'll jump in with Tres here.

Why do you have to be "useful" to be a worthwile human being?

I must've been sick that day when we went over "the rules of life".
 

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Posted by Mirrored Shades (Member # 8957) on :
 
If you judge the value of human beings only by what they contribute to the group as a whole, that's your own problem. If you ever tried to enforce this belief by slaughtering anyone you deemed 'useless,' you would reduce yourself to being no better than the worst dictator. Think, Hitler.

That's not ever going to happen, so I think I'll adress the problems I have with your own, personal, philosophy. For instance, your defination of useless -- useless to whom? The high schooler wannabe gangsta isn't useful to you, directly, but somewhere he's got parents, a family. Is he useful to them? Or maybe he's got a job, or will have a child, will love a woman. Will he be useful to them? How can you even begin to justify punishing everyone who doesn't make your life a little easier?

I won't even try and refute your point about 'special' people, because some things are too offensive to think about, much less argue logically.
 

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Posted by Alex Johansen (Member # 9090) on :
 
but do people eve ake up the oppotunity and actually contribute?

people may be useful to eachother, and that's geat, bu if the gangster wannabe is useful to his parents then think about gangs.

The Bloods and Crips must be unuseful to eachothr since they fight and shoot eachother all the time. So that must mean that they are more unuseful than useful. Are gang members useful to anyone besides their gangs? Is Osama Bin Laden useful? He brought about change in America, we are now (or were, before everyone decided to get bored and start opposing us cleaning up Iraq and what-not) but at the cost of thousands of lives. Is he useful?
 

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Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
 
Alex, I hope that you can trust me enough to take this in the spirit that it is intended.

You are wrong. About almost everything. Time and experience may lead to you greater wisdom. I hope so.

Life is not meaningless. I mean, I used to think that it was, when I was an angst-y adolescent, but time and experience taught me otherwise. There IS a point to all this, even if that point is not apparent to you at this time.

You don't have to look for grand examples of purpose in life. Care for the people around you, strive to do the right thing, be of use. If you do these things consistently, the meaning and purpose of life will become self-evident. You may even realize that people have inherent value, whether or not they change the world.

Good luck with getting over the angst thing. In my experience will pass. Slowly and painfully, but it will.
 

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Posted by theresa51282 (Member # 8037) on :
 
Ick!!!! Your post doesn't make me angry it makes me feel sorry for you. Why the need to find the worst in other people? People who think themselves useless are delusioned. Everyone is valuable. Humans aren't tools. Life is worth something irregardless of if we can divine it ourselves. Have you ever known anyone to commit suicide that hasn't left devestated people in the aftermath who miss them terribly. The person who committed suicide saw no use for themselves but they were certainly valued by others.

I think your post is really more about how you want to know that your usefullness is valuable and meaningful. By making it the basis to decide the fate of others you assure yourself that you are on the right track. Why don't you find the rest of the things that people do that are meaningful? There is so much more to people than wearing uniforms and contributing to ROTC. People need help discovering themselves. They need compassion and encouragement. Ultimatums do no one any good. The people that you talk about are probably not that happy with themselves. Put downs only worsen the problem. Be supportive. You'll be amazed how much more effective that is than your forced usefulness programs.

[ March 01, 2006, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: theresa51282 ]
 

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Posted by Mirrored Shades (Member # 8957) on :
 
Alex --

Life's a ***** and then you die. Whine, mope, and wallow in angst. It's obviously the only thing to do. Also, read The Once and Future King and The Book of Merlin by TH White, because if there are two books that will never steer you wrong, that's them. Consider whether you'd rather be a goose or an ant.

Also, ponder this: are you more useful if you're an actual gang member, or just a wannabe gangsta? I really want to know your stance on this vital issue.
 

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Posted by prolixshore (Member # 4496) on :
 
It's almost hard not to laugh at the absolute wrongness of everything you just said, Alex. My my my.

There's a Harvard professor who is one of the foremost experts on Black demography in America, and when he was 16 he had dropped out of high school to spend all the time with his gang. Is he useless?

There are a million stories of people who messed up their life when they were younger, only to turn it around later on. My friend Ace, for example, dropped out of his first year of college to spend 6 years selling drugs in Seattle. Since that time, he has enrolled in college and will be graduating with 3 degrees, chemical engineering, chemistry, and physics. He has published 5 academic articles and is brilliant. He didn't get back to college until he was 27.

There are anecdotal stories like this all over the place. Your definition of useless is useless and not founded in reality.

To be honest with you, Alex, I'm not sure I could go out and get 25 people who will vouch for me as "nice" because I just don't deal with that many people on a day to day basis. You can't determine the worth of a life by how many people like them. That's just a popularity contest, not a measure of worth.

I don't know if you ever knew sndrake, but I will second that I'm glad he doesn't have to read what you just wrote. That would be a sad day indeed.

"Special" people, as you put it, are just people. Good grief Alex, it's just a matter of what your weaknesses are. Everyone has weaknesses, lots of them, and just because your weaknesses do not involve major brain functioning problems or physical inabilities doesn't make you worth more than a guy with no legs and Down's syndrome. If you think that it does, then I am sad for you. If you want examples of your own failings, feel free to read through your words on this thread.

--ApostleRadio
 

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Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
 
Your first post on this thread is the most offensive I've seen on Hatrack. Congrats, Alex.
 

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