Hatrack River Forum: Its too ironic and sad to be a conspiracy.

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Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :

I heard about this on NPR the other day, but can't find much to back it up on-line. If its true it is infuriating.

Two Iraqi women watched their husbands and children die when US Soldiers mistook them for terrorists attacking their check point, and killed them.

These mothers were invited by several peace groups to come to the US and join in their Peace rallies, to discuss their loss.

They could not come because they could not get visa's to come to the US.

The groups asked Homeland Security why, fearing a political conspiracy to hamper thier protests.

The US Govt answered that there was no such conspiracy. The women didn't meet the requirements for the visa.

What requirements?

They did not have enough guarantees that they would return to their home.

The groups asked, where specifically were these woman lacking.

The emmigration official responded, "They don't have enough immediate family."

Duh.

Here is the only backup of this story I could find.

Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :

If it was reall, I'm sure the media would pick up on it. That nutty Sheehan woman is hardly a trustworthy source.

Posted by Fyfe (Member # 937) on :

If it was real you're sure the media would pick up on it.

...

I don't know what to say to that. The scope of real things that the media does not pick up on is staggering.

Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :

I friggin hate our government.....

Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :

I do know that not having enough family is cause to not get a visa. The thinking is that without a family at home, you are more likely to skip out on your visa and not return home.

Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :

If it's a conspiracy, why are they letting all the other Iraqi's come visit with CODEPINK? And if it's not a conspiracy, what's the problem? I can see the headline: "U.S. Embassy Follows Visa Rules."

Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :

They are only following those rules this time because it benefits them to do so.

Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :

Your evidence?

Once again, why keep these two out and let those other Iraqis coming over here to protest in?

Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :

The problem Dag is purely how bad it looks. "You can't visit the US because you don't have any relatives guaranteeing that you will return. Why don't you have any relatives, because we killed them all."

Its pouring salt in a wound.

Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :

Yes, but the same individuals who denied the Visa are not likely to be the same individuals who killed the people's family. Granted, the same government, but I highly doubt 'the government' did this out of spite, as some people would be prone to believe. As Dag said, the Visa people were simply following the rules. Now, if Bush flew in and personally said "We killed the family, don't let them in", that would be a problem. But someone looking at a paper and seeing "No living relatives" and doing their job by denying the request for a Visa is not a problem.

And yes, I know, the problem lies in the fact that the reason there are no living relatives is the war, but don't go blaming the entire government. The visa people didn't do anything wrong.

Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :

You are right, they did nothing wrong.

Then again, they did nothing right. What did they say about the Katrina problems--a total lack of initiative or something. Same thing hear. These calls are a matter of judgement, not a system of unbendable law. So the US looks even worse to the world and no one is to really blame.

Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :

They committed the bureaucratic sin of allowing rules and red tape to take precedence over actual humans.

Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :

It's that pesky "rule of law" thing again.

Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :

Actually its more that pesky "rule of Standard Operating Procedure." Its not a Law that is stopping them from getting their visa, it is procedures put in place to most efficiently conform to the law. Procedures, unlike laws, can be broken, and must be broken for the better good.

Posted by Amka (Member # 690) on :

We couldn't get my MIL here for just a visit for that very same reason. The govt took her money three times (an application fee is unrefundable, and it was somewhere around $500) before they finally got around to telling her that they would never let her visit, because she might stay.

So we got her an immigration visa.

Stupid bureaucracy.

Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :

quote:
Actually its more that pesky "rule of Standard Operating Procedure." Its not a Law that is stopping them from getting their visa, it is procedures put in place to most efficiently conform to the law. Procedures, unlike laws, can be broken, and must be broken for the better good.

This might be true, but then again it might not. Do you have any reliable information that exceptions can be made to these regulations by the embassy staff?

Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :

I have a friend who tried to visit, and ran into the same explanation, after loosing a good 2-3 months income in paying non-refundable application fees. After contacting our congressman to see if he could expedite the situation I was told that this is the accepted winnowing procedure. Before 9/11 the procedure was much more lax and open, but since then nobody wants to risk being the beurocrat that lets in the next terrorist, so they basically turn down everyone they can.