My friend is about to enter the university. She' taking a double major, and one of them is classical studies - and she can't decide whether she wants Greek or Roman.
So, as intelligent, intellectual Hatrackers - which of them do you reccommend?
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Neither. Classical Studies is a fairly useless major.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
which does she like more?
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
First, she doesn't know if she's doing a double major when she enters. She just doesn't. Most people do not graduate with the major they go into college interested in.
Her primary consideration, as breyerchic noted, should be what she likes to do. If she likes classical studies at all, its a perfectly fine major; one's particular major has little to do with one's general employability, and she'd have a second major.
If she wants to do classical studies, and likes both options equally, I'd suggest she choose one to pair with her second major (assuming she does one). For instance, if she's going into philosophy or something literature related, the Greek focus might make more sense. If she's going into economics or political science, the Roman focus might.
For now, she doesn't need to choose. Even if she decides to start out looking at classical studies, she can take a class from each "side" of the field.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
fugu, will I graduate with the major I went in interested in?
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: Neither. Classical Studies is a fairly useless major.
Hey! I'm significantly offended by that! Are you saying that my entire LIFE is useless?!? (Okay, I'm not that offended by your comment, but... it is what I'm going to spend the rest of my life doing.)
I would pick Greek. I find Greek much more fun and challenging than Latin, and the works written in Greek I also find more interesting. Gallic War? Sure, whatever. Give me Herodotus any day.
It also helps that Latin is much easier to learn after having learned Greek, whereas going the other way is very difficult.
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
Most schools allow, even recomend, that you take both Latin and Greek if you major in Classics.
Posted by Dante (Member # 1106) on :
quote:Neither. Classical Studies is a fairly useless major.
Only if you equate "usefulness" with "earning potential."
I double-majored in Classical Studies and History--with a focus on Roman history--so my emphasis was obviously Latin, but I do wish I'd had more Greek. It's really a matter of interest on her part, though; she should pick whatever she's more interested in. Still, unless for some reason she has to decide definitively her first year, I'd suggest waiting and taking some classes from both sides to see which she likes more.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:Only if you equate "usefulness" with "earning potential."
Nope. I mean in general. Because the education you can get by majoring in Classical Studies can be obtained almost as easily by minoring in Classical Studies and dating a Classical Studies professor, and NOT having majored in Classical Studies won't hurt your career in any way.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Fights urge to comment on what you can really learn dating a Classical Studies Proffesor.
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
If she is going to say anything at all, then I would recomend Greek.
Posted by Dante (Member # 1106) on :
quote:Because the education you can get by majoring in Classical Studies can be obtained almost as easily by minoring in Classical Studies and dating a Classical Studies professor
I'm curious, Tom, how are you able to speak so authoritatively on the state of Classics and Classical Studies? Besides being naturally brilliant and a general expert on everything, I mean.
quote:and NOT having majored in Classical Studies won't hurt your career in any way.
You're assuming that majoring in something is necessarily directly related to a career. Some people attend college for education rather than--or in addition to--training.
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
I would hazard a guess that not having majored in Classics or one of the many related subjects( e.g. Ancient History and Classical Archaeology) would indeed hurt your chances of getting a job teaching any of those subjects.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
I majored in the UW equivalent of Classical Studies and am now pursuing a degree in Classical Philology. If your friend has any questions, I'd be happy to answer them - away from people who consider my major (both past and current) useless.
Thanks, Tom.
Posted by Fyfe (Member # 937) on :
I love Latin! I love Latin soooo much. Cicero is my favorite. Tell her Latin is better.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:I'm curious, Tom, how are you able to speak so authoritatively on the state of Classics and Classical Studies?
Leaving aside the fact that I generally speak authoritatively, even where unwarranted? I have nine acquaintances who were Classical Studies majors. Two of the three who are employed are Classical Studies professors, and the third was a historian before becoming a computer technician. Four of the others are still in school, and one's working on his fourth post-bacc.
It strikes me, therefore, as one of those insular and ultimately self-consuming fields, like Black Studies or Women's Studies or, really, almost anything with "Studies" at the end: if you don't go into academia, you'll wind up valuing it only insofar as it contributed to your general education. And speaking here as a former English major who thinks that far, far too many people go to college nowadays, anyway, I seek to discourage cultural academics.
Don't get me wrong: it's an interesting pursuit, and I can easily understand why people find it fascinating. But I wouldn't actually recommend devoting one's life to the study except as a hobby. I just don't see any practical application outside of academic circles.
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
Greek
I find Greek thought more compelling, and I think that the greek that lives today in American thought is more arresting. If she wants to learn of science and engineering, take Latin, if she wants to concern herself of truth, beauty, love, friendship, democracy and the passion of the human condition, then she should learn Greek.
The funny thing about learning Greek is that while it might not be of use, it may very well help her be.
As an aside, I'm not an antiquarian. Studying Greek and Latin aren't fetishes. I honestly believe that studying Greek, which opens the door to Homer, Plato, Aristotle, Aeschylus, and Heraclitus, not to mention thoughtful English and the New Testament, is as relevant today as studying the thought of those writing and speaking during the American Revolution and the Civil Rights movement.
It seems that simple thoughtlessness, a danger ever attending any bureaucratic society, can be mitigated by a love of language, and a love of our language commends a familiarity with Greek, Latin, and German.
[ February 20, 2006, 12:13 AM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
And speaking here as a former English major who thinks that far, far too many people go to college nowadays, anyway, I seek to discourage cultural academics.
I'm wondering why you think that too many people go to college nowadays.
Actually, I'll come right out and say that it seems to me that, as you are someone who learns very well independently, your statement indicates that you believe everyone else learns equally well independently and thus doesn't need the structure of formal education to learn. As I'm someone who finds it well nigh impossible to learn independently, I feel rather left out.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:I'm wondering why you think that too many people go to college nowadays.
Because it's become a rite of passage. I believe that's cheapened it considerably.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:I'm wondering why you think that too many people go to college nowadays.
Because it's become a rite of passage. I believe that's cheapened it considerably.
So shouldn't you be more upset about the business majors who go in and out just to get a degree and have a fun four years drinking on dad's credit card than you are about liberal arts majors who are there because they love learning?
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
I don't think the number of people in college is as much of a problem as the social role we've prescribed for colleges to fulfill.
Blacwolve,
I also have contempt for the liberal arts majors who go into school in the name of filling their head with esoteria for the sake of filling their head with esoteria. And social scientists aren't much higher in my esteem.
In a well-ordered world, one should be in school always with an eye towards seeking a sense of humanitarian wisdom, this goes for all disciplines.
[ February 23, 2006, 03:51 PM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:I don't think the number of people in college is as much of a problem as much as the problem is the social role we've prescribed for colleges to fulfill.
I think one is the consequence of the other, Irami. The problem is that I don't know which one. Posted by clod (Member # 9084) on :
I'd recommend italian. As a minor.
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
Well, the first step is people thinking about speaking about the role of college education, which is what we are doing here, so I have hope for the future.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
quote:Originally posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong:
In a well-ordered world, one should be in school always with an eye towards seeking a sense humanitarian wisdom, this goes for all disciplines.
What does this mean?
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
Blacwolve, the "Uni" in university, the one thing, the nexus in which all of the seemingly disparate disciplines spring from, and are turned towards, is the concern and the love of the human condition.
The problem is that we've lost the big picture. I think that you can blame it on the love of efficiency or the Assembly line, but somehow we've come to conceive of a University as being a conglomeration of disparate studies, each as hobby horse severed from the next. Let's run with this factory analogy. It's as if everyone works in a car factory on different parts of an assemblyline. Now it may not be appropriate for the person who installs windows to know how to install the fuel injection system, but it is appropriate for both people to understand that they are building a car, and that their meager discipline is but one facet of the larger picture.
In the same way, the person studying Biology may not ever learn how to blow glass, as long as they both seek to understand how their discipline afford insights into the human condition.
_____
There is also the old joke about the four blind people describing and elephant, give a holler if you don't know it, the moral is that the four blind people each have a deficient understanding of the elephant because each treats his/her individual perceptions as mutually exclusive with the perceptions of the other blind people. _______
Greek and Latin are important for everyone because so much of Greek and Latin thought inform who we are today as Americans, even if we don't know or accept this as true. The relationship between language and thought is complex beyond my understanding, but it does seem to me that if we are to even address our problems, personal or political, there needs to be an understanding of the language, and the latent nuances behind the words we use to describe these problems, and to understand this, one goes to the people who were first struck by the phenomenon which gave birth to the word. I'm not saying that this will solve anything. If they are real problems they will never be solved, but they will be poured over and more deeply felt and understood. Aescylus' Agammenon is an example of this, where as Agammemon's offense, on top of killing his daughter, was that he didn't appreciate the full tragedy of his predicament. His was a double crime, he killed his daughter and he was too casual about killing his daughter. __________
I'm getting far a field, but its late, and I may as well keep going. Greek and Latin are important because they are the source of so much of our thought. There is an insight gained into our life right now by studying the Ancient Greeks. I'm not saying that we should emulate them, but I am saying that we should have an understanding of their problems, as their problems are a purer version of our problems, as their language is a purer version of our language. *chuckles* They are our intellectual origin. It's the same reason that the origin of superheroes is so interesting. If you want to understand Spiderman, you have to go back to his actions leading up to the death of his Uncle Ben.
Here question is, what makes spiderman spiderman, was it the bite from the radioactive spider, or was it his understanding of personal responsibility?
Wow, I'm far a field, ask me again tomorrow, and I'll try to tie all of this together so it makes more sense.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wave]](graemlins/wave.gif)
I majored in the UW equivalent of Classical Studies and am now pursuing a degree in Classical Philology. If your friend has any questions, I'd be happy to answer them - away from people who consider my major (both past and current) useless.