I recently read that there was a smear campaign post WWII for the vegetable oil industry to take over the coconut/tropical oil industry's market share. The vegetable oil campaign aparently won as I grew up thinking that coconut oil is the worst out there, when in actuality it is the best according to dozens of web sites I just googled. Is anyone else familiar with this campaign and what the coconut advocates are calling the leading cause of obesity and heart disease? Just type in "Coconut oil healthy" in Google for dozens of links.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
You realize that googling "coconut oil healthy" gives you highly biased results, right? It pulls up all the sites that say coconut oil is healthy, and none of the ones that say it isn't. "Coconut oil nutritional data" would probably give you more balanced results pool. Doing that gives you results like this nutritional analysis that says almost all of the fat in coconut oil is saturated fat, which most people need to avoid, although it doesn't have any cholesterol, which is good.
Also, why would US oil producers smear coconut oil and not olive oil, most of which is imported as well?
I'm not saying that coconut oil doesn't have some benefits, of course. I skimmed a couple of the positive articles, but I haven't read any in depth yet. I'm just saying that your method of finding information is going to slant you towards the results you want, and as such is not entirely convincing. Posted by Kent (Member # 7850) on :
Well, I was going to sell you my coconut oil ElJay, but now I'll have to find another forum I guess. I actually followed your link, but you already need to know what is good and bad to read it. I tried dozens of different types of searches on coconut oil and kept coming up with the same research results - it rocks!
I understood that fats are good for you as long as they don't have trans-fat. Any nutritionists out there?
Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
Cholesterol only comes from animal sources, so vegetable oil wouldn't have any either.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
I don't think that's true, Kent. It depends on how you define "good for you," for one. Everyone needs a certain amount of fat, but too much of any kind isn't good for you. Here's an FDA page about trans fat. It says that it's bad for you, certainly, but also that saturated fat -- which coconut oil is very high in -- is also bad. Trans fat is made when manufacturers add hydrogen to liquid oils for a number of reasons, including to make it solid at room tempurature, like Crisco. Coconut oil doesn't have any because it's solid in its natural state, so it doesn't need to be hydrogenized. I worked at a movie theater for years, and our coconut oil came in 5 gallon buckets. We had to stick a heater in them to melt it, so it could be used by the popcorn machine.
Here's a quote from the FDA site:
quote:While unsaturated fats (monounsaturated and polyunsaturated) are beneficial when consumed in moderation, saturated and trans fats are not. Saturated fat and trans fat raise LDL cholesterol levels in the blood. Dietary cholesterol also contributes to heart disease. Therefore, it is advisable to choose foods low in saturated fat, trans fat, and cholesterol as part of a healthful diet.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Okay, I did your google search and looked at all of the links on the first page. 9 of the 10 were trying to sell something, either a book or coconut oil or both. All of them said things like "medical studies show" but none of them linked to the actual studies, gave a summary of the data from the studies, or even said what was looked at in the studies, just said they "show" that coconut oil is good for you. This sort of thing makes me doubtful. Also, this is from one of the links:
quote: Medical research is in agreement that at least 30% of our daily nutritional intake should be made up of fats or oil.
Everything I've ever read about nutrition and weight loss has said that fat and oil should make up no more than 30% of your daily intake, not at least. For weight loss, it's supposed to be even lower, 30% is the commonly accepted upper limit for maintaining your current weight. A statement like this makes me seriously question the integrity of the site.
The one site that wasn't trying to sell something had some information that would make me at least consider that coconut oil might have some benefits. But I certainly wouldn't recommend it to anyone who has known cholesterol problems or a family history or heart disease. And, like everything else, it's probably best in moderation. I won't be giving up olive or canola oil anytime soon. I've actually seen the studies on their benefits. Posted by Kent (Member # 7850) on :
The study linked to seems to have more to do with linoleic acid that to coconut oil. And animal studies alone are not (IMO) sufficient.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Second link doesn't work for me, either. First link only compares it with soy oil as a way to help absorption of linoleic acid. As rivka said, the benefits studied seem to come from the linoleic acid, not the coconut oil, and a study comparing two oils hardly seems evidence that one of the two is the "healthiest" for you out of all the oils out there. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
GRAPESEED OIL!!!!! Grapeseed oil is the BEST. Better for you than olive oil. And it has no discernable flavor, a very high smoke point (in the peanut oil range), a beautiful color, and is safe on your skin as a moisturizer or... for family activities.
Posted by Kent (Member # 7850) on :
Here we go ketchupqueen! How do we rank oils, from best to worse for you?
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
My doctor says I should take Fish Oil, but I hate it. For one thing, I try to avoid eating things that require the death of animals to produce. For another thing I'm afraid it makes me smell like fish. For a third thing, I worry about mercury contamination. But the thing I'm supposedly supposed to get large quantities of is omega-3 fatty acids. Does anyone know of a vegetable source of omega-3 fatty acids?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote: Key omega-3 fatty acids include eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexanoic acid (DHA), both found primarily in oily cold-water fish such as tuna, salmon, and mackerel. Aside from fresh seaweed, a staple of many cultures, plant foods rarely contain EPA or DHA.
However, a third omega-3, called alpha-linolenic acid (ALA), is found primarily in dark green leafy vegetables, flaxseed oils, and certain vegetable oils. Although ALA has different effects on the body than EPA and DHA do, the body has enzymes that can convert ALA to EPA. All three are important to human health.
quote: Plant sources: Canola oil, flaxseed, flaxseed oil, walnuts, and leafy green vegetables such as purslane are all good sources of alpha-linolenic acid (ALA), the plant-based omega-3. A quarter-cup (1 ounce) of walnuts supplies about 2 grams of plant-based omega-3 fatty acids, slightly more than is found in 3 ounces of salmon.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
To use PubMed most effectively, it can be helpful to use the "limits" tab. Limiting the search to "humans" in "English" and "review" brings up 11 items, none of which substantiate the claim that coconut oil is the healthiest form of fat.
See, e.g., the 1994 article in American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, "Effects of fats and fatty acids on blood lipids in humans: an overview," excerpted as follows:
quote: Of the commercial fats, palm-kernel and coconut oil are the most hypercholesterolemic, followed by butter and palm oil.
That is to say, coconut oil raises total cholesterol count more significantly than an equivalent amount of butter.
Mind you, I don't think this makes coconut products evil. I use them in moderation in cooking, just as I do butter. But, in general, I've found outlandish claims of miracle panaceas to be less than well-substantiated.
Sometimes we want so badly get the inside scoop on somthing that we will buy whatever's being sold us on empty promises. I prefer the critical analytic approach -- less exciting, less glamorous, but (I think) more effective, if the endpoint is actual improvement in health.
ElJay has the right of it, I think.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by ClaudiaTherese: To use PubMed most effectively, it can be helpful to use the "limits" tab.
Neat! I hadn't noticed that.
*makes note for future reference*
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
quote:Originally posted by ClaudiaTherese: See, e.g., the 1994 article in American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, "Effects of fats and fatty acids on blood lipids in humans: an overview," excerpted as follows:
quote: Of the commercial fats, palm-kernel and coconut oil are the most hypercholesterolemic, followed by butter and palm oil.
That is to say, coconut oil raises total cholesterol count more significantly than an equivalent amount of butter.
Were the studies done on virgin coconut oil (that is, cold pressed) or on refined coconut oil?
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Snake oil is clearly the best.
If anyone would like to purchase some, I have a few bottles in my large van, along with tasty, delicious candy...
-pH
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Originally posted by quidscribis: Were the studies done on virgin coconut oil (that is, cold pressed) or on refined coconut oil?
I have no idea, but I can find out, if you'd like. This would take some time and effort on my part, which I'm glad to do, by the way -- I just don't want to do it unless the results will actually make a difference to someone.
(I have a lot on my plate right now, and the snotfest of kleenexes that is my bedroom floor doesn't make getting through the day any easier. *grin)
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka:
quote:Originally posted by ClaudiaTherese: To use PubMed most effectively, it can be helpful to use the "limits" tab.
Neat! I hadn't noticed that.
*makes note for future reference*
Glad to be of service.
Although I'll make the caveat that I find the PubMed sieve to have some pretty large holes. When I do a really extensive lit review, I end up doing dozens of iterations using the "related articles" search and then combing through the bibliographies of selected articles I find. It takes forever, but it's the only way to be truly comprehensive.
Likely not necessary for an incidental question, but I just thought I'd vent while I had the opportunity. Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
quote:Originally posted by ClaudiaTherese:
quote:Originally posted by quidscribis: Were the studies done on virgin coconut oil (that is, cold pressed) or on refined coconut oil?
I have no idea, but I can find out, if you'd like. This would take some time and effort on my part, which I'm glad to do, by the way -- I just don't want to do it unless the results will actually make a difference to someone.
(I have a lot on my plate right now, and the snotfest of kleenexes that is my bedroom floor doesn't make getting through the day any easier. *grin)
I ask because some sites that proclaim coconut oil as healthy claim that the tests claiming that coconut oil is unhealthy use a hydrogenated or something form of it rather than the pure virgin coconut oil, and that it can make a difference in whether it's healthy/not healthy. I think I'm using the correct terms - I hope I'm using the correct terms.
If it's too much trouble, don't worry about it. I'd rather you get healthy and quit having a snotfest of Kleenex rampaging throughout your existence. Ew!!!!!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
The thing is, as was already mentioned above, coconut oil actually is not usually commercially hydrogenated -- for the simple reason that it doesn't need to be. It's already a saturated fat which solidifies at room temperature.
Even going by what they claim is the difference in processing, the most significant difference seems to be the distinct coconut scent. Which is lovely and all, but not terribly likely to provide significant health benefits. Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
(Thanks for understanding, quidscribis. I'll browse through rivka's link and poke around a bit when I have the time.
I've been so whiny lately! It annoys even me. )
Posted by Kent (Member # 7850) on :
Where is there true good science on all things nutrition that is also accessible to the layman?
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
It's a good question, Kent. There are some good sources (e.g., Scientific American, Nature, the Hopkins Letter), but unfortunately, it's partly the nature of the beast that the terms "accessible" and "truly scientific" are hard to mesh. Understanding which questions to ask and developing the critical skills are part of scientific training.
On the one hand, I'm very sympathetic to the idea that if you really understand something, you should be able to teach it. On the other hand, sometimes to teach effectively, you'd have to do a lot of background teaching, too.
How would someone effectively teach transfusion medicine? Theaca and I, both physicians, admit that we have little understanding of the details, or even of some of the basics. Not because we aren't smart, but because we haven't gone through that training.
Some of the training that goes into getting an advanced degree is most certainly irrelevant or useless. A lot is both relevant and useful, and even necessary.
[ February 21, 2006, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
I hear libraries are still pretty accessible. They have subscriptions to nearly every periodical, so that would be a good place to start familiarizing yourself if you so desire.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
I was doing a little Googling, and I have been reading that the lauric acid in coconut milk has antimicrobial properties and is beneficial in lactating mothers to ensure high quantities of lauric acid in breast milk.
Anyone want to confirm if this appears to be true or if it is just part of the effort to quick-sell coconut oil?
Posted by Lissande (Member # 350) on :
...family activities...
Don't know whether to or to Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
. Definitely .
Always hard to know how to phrase that, since the whole family doesn't really participate... Family-promoting activities?
Posted by Lissande (Member # 350) on :
That was my first thought actually, after - "Well, I guess it could help you GET a family..."
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Family-acquiring activities?
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
In any case, it's also good for making Frisco gleam in the sun.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
quote:Originally posted by beverly: I was doing a little Googling, and I have been reading that the lauric acid in coconut milk has antimicrobial properties and is beneficial in lactating mothers to ensure high quantities of lauric acid in breast milk.
bev -- I'm basically answering to say I can't answer your question, since no one else has commented on it yet. I just don't know enough about what lauric acid is or what it's supposed to do. The stuff I've read has indeed said that coconut oil is one of the best ways to get lauric acid. But is getting more lauric acid good? Is it particularly beneficial to infants? If it is beneficial, is it more so than other types of fatty acids? Enough more so to outweigh the possible harmful effects of the saturated fat in coconut oil/milk on the mother? I've got no clue.
My opinion, and I'm not a nutritionist or a medical professional, is that there are a lot of compounds found in food that can be beneficial, but that none of them is a cure-all. I think if you try to "load" any one element, by eating a lot of a particular thing, you're going to cut out something else that's just as valuable. So the best way to make sure you're getting everything you need is to eat a balanced diet.
I like coconut milk, and I cook with it on occasion. I also don't have high cholesterol. If you don't either, I think there's no harm in adding it to your diet in moderation, and there might be a benefit. But you should be aware that it is high in saturated fat, and take that into account. I don't think the evidence of any benefits are strong enough to replace other fats/oils with coconut oil. Olive oil is good for you. Fatty acids in cold-water fish are good for you. Flaxseed oil is good for you. Eating all of them at diffrent times during the week is probably very good for you. Eating any one every meal probably is not.
If you do have diagnosed high cholesterol, I wouldn't increase the amount of any saturated fat in your diet without talking to your doctor and a nutritionist. Some possible microscope benefit to your baby while he's nursing isn't worth losing his mother early to heart disease. And I have seen no evidence that the benefit is enough to make a difference in an infant's general health. Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
quote:Flaxseed oil is good for you.
Not good for this particular you. I'm allergic to flaxseed. If I consume as little as 1/2 teaspoon flaxseed or 1/4 teaspoon flax oil, I'll wind up with cramps that rival my gallbladder attacks, along with projectile vomiting and diarrhea. It's nasty, nasty, nasty, nasty stuff to this little girl.
Here, coconut oil is cheap and readily available everywhere. It's the only oil we cook with, and historically, it's the most common oil cooked with in Sri Lanka and it's part of what gives Sri Lankan curries their distinctive flavor.
From what I understand - and this is word of mouth from doctors, no documentation to back it up - heart disease and cholesterol are not as much of a problem here as compared to the west. It's considered to be because of the high use of coconut oil.
Personally, I have no problem using coconut oil for cooking. I don't overdo the oil to start with, and we don't have cholesterol problems.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Quid, doesn't Sri Lankan cooking also use much less in the way of high-fat meat? Not to mention lots of (brown) rice? That is also likely to have something to do with it, neh?
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
quid, I'd also be curious about the amount of physical activity the average Sri Lanken gets as opposed to the average American. And like you said, you don't overdo the oil. . . some of those sites seemed to be seriously suggesting that you should get 30% or more of your daily calories from coconut oil.
Anyway, I'm still not saying that I necessarily believe coconut oil is bad for you. I'm saying that I haven't seen any evidence that it's good for you, or better than every other type of oil. And for someone who has known cholesterol problems, it doesn't seem worth the risk. I mean, if it was a choice between coconut oil and Crisco, or lard, sure, I'd say take coconut oil. But since there are options out there without or with minimal saturated fat, cholesterol, or trans fat, if you know you have a problem, sticking to those just makes sense to me, at least until there are some human studies showing benefits to using coconut oil instead. Man that was a convuluted sentence. Sorry. Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: In any case, it's also good for making Frisco gleam in the sun.
Pics, I say!
-pH
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
There haven't already been enough nekkid Frisco pics posted in these here parts?
Enough already.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
There are NEVER enough nekkid Frisco pics.
Frisco, I will hire you to strip for my birthday party.
-pH
Posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan (Member # 5626) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: Enough already.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: There haven't already been enough nekkid Frisco pics posted in these here parts?
Enough already.
Perhaps we should put that to a vote.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Or perhaps it might be noted that Frisco has voted.
With his feet.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Bare feet?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Gevalt.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: Or perhaps it might be noted that Frisco has voted.
With his feet.
"He said no, Err. With his foot."
-pH
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Meat, on the whole, is used less here - there is a very high percentage of those who don't eat meat(Buddhists - 70%) and those who don't eat cow (Hindus, 14%), although what percentage of those actually adhere to the dietary restrictions, I don't know.
Quality of meat, however, is not as good here as in Canada or the US, so whether it's lower or higher in fat, I don't know.
Curries cooked in oil, however, are fairly common here.
White rice in grocery stores is more common than red (equivalent of brown) by at least double. In that respect, the west has definitely caught on here. We eat red rice in our house, but in every other single house where I've eaten a meal, it's been white. Also, naan and other flatbreads, as well as loaves of bread, and all other baked goods are generally white flour, although some items are white rice flour. String hoppers are an exception, commonly made with red rice flour. Basically, what I'm saying is that predominantly, the grains that are used here are not whole grains.
Physical activity. There's one gym in the entire country that I'm aware of. For exercise, people will walk or play cricket, if anything at all. But on the whole, I'd expect that locals are more active than Americans. Labour is so cheap that it makes sense, for example, for the city will hire people to sweep or shovel the road rather than use street sweeping vehicles. Obesity is, by far, not as common here as in North America.
All of this is anecdotal. I have no statistics or links to support any of this. That sort of thing is hard to come by here.
Also, the coconut oil that's available in the stores here is virgin - completely unrefined in any way. And I gotta tell you, it smells nice.
I'm also not saying that coconut oil is the healthiest thing around, nor am I convinced it can cure as many things as some of these coconut oil sites claim, but I don't think it's the evil that some make it out to be, either. I suspect that there isn't a whole lot of quality evidence to prove it one way or the other.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Thanks, ElJay. That echos some of what I have been thinking of lately. There are so many foods out there that are supposed to be "good" for you. And yet, it isn't right to take in too much of any one. No one food is good enough to be a complete diet by itself.
I guess in part, I am wondering if I should use coconut oil at all. In the past, I have avoided it and felt profoundly guilty when I enjoy a good, thick curry. But if it has benefits, I will not feel bad enjoying it now and then.
For example, I remember a favorite recipe from the Philippines. Actually, I don't think it originated in the Philippines. Quid or Fahim may have even come across it. It is a sort of dessert that has a certain banana, glutinous rice "dumplings", tapioca balls and other ingredients floating in sweetened and aromated coconut milk and cream. It is very rich and is delicious both warm and cold. I don't make it often, but when I do, I'd like to feel that there is some benefit to it.
If coconut oil is a saturated fat with health benefits, then I may choose to use it in any case where I need to heat oil to avoid creating trans fats. Of course, normally I use olive oil for this.
I do not have any sort of cholesterol problems, and if I did, I would be far more cautious. Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
Man, my knowledge of lipid metabolism is woefully inadequate. I know that Lauric acid is one of the three most common fatty acids, although it's a distant third, and is common in palm and palm kernal oils. It's pretty unlikely that people are severely lacking in it. As for what it specifically does, I don't really know, beyond the broad sweeping "this is why you need fatty acids" kinda thing. I mean, I know it's structure and all, but who really cares, right? Nevermind that I'm not a nutritionist anyway. Something in the back of my mind is saying that it's a substrate for CYP4A1 (important in immune response) but hell, these days it seems like everything is.
While I have a lot of sympathy for people who want reliable scientific information about nutrition, I don't think there are any easy answers. Simply because the scientific community really isn't sure about what it knows, which is why margerine is good for you, then it is again, then it is, etc. This stuff is just really, really complicated. I think doing what you're doing is probably best. Ask around, listen to people who probably do know what they're talking about and then balance it with your own common sense.
Wish I had more for ya.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
I appreciate you sharing what you know, BtL. The "CYP4A1" alone is enough to convince me that you know far more than I. :smirk:
I will continue to eat coconut oil in respectful amounts and not feel *too* guilty in doing so. ^_^
Posted by Kent (Member # 7850) on :
I just read an article that there are three locations where there are a lot of folks that make it past age 100.
quote: According to National Geographic, the three locations today that produce the highest numbers of the longest living people in the western world are in Sardinia Italy, Okinawa Japan, and Loma Linda, California. What can we learn about these three locations?
Let’s begin in Italy. In Sardinia Italy men live as long as women, which is rarely seen anywhere in the world. Science isn’t exactly sure why the men of Sardinia live as long as their female counterparts, but one theory is that the women wear the pants in this society and the men in this region are far less stressed than men in other societies. Men socialize more together and do not have nearly as much to worry about. In addition the Sardinians have great zeal and commitment toward the family structure. It is not uncommon to see several generations living closely together as a family unit, enjoying great family meals and festive occasions together. The love and unity this tradition offers lead to content and happy people that believe this is what being alive is all about. Until recently Sardinia was an agricultural society that lived off of whole natural foods that are primarily grown in family gardens. But there is currently a move towards westernization, and the cultural underpinnings that support their famed longevity are clearly at risk.
In Okinawa Japan, our next hot spot for longevity, we find the home of the longest lived people on earth today. Those living into their hundreds in Okinawa continue to lead vigorous and active lifestyles. It is not uncommon to see people well into their nineties and older biking here and there, or fishing many miles off shore, using old diving techniques to catch fish in the reef. Can you imagine hundred year old persons in the United States diving into deep waters, far from shore, to catch their supper? In addition to their active lifestyles, the centenarians in this region believe in a philosophy that centers on the importance of waking up each morning of their life with a sense of purpose and passion. Each possesses great purpose that helps to renew and fill them with energy each day. In addition to an active lifestyle and a great sense of purpose, they also create strong family and other social ties that create a sense of love and well being. And, they eat a lot of food, however; the food they eat is low in caloric density and leads to much greater health than most Americans experience. For instance they love to eat miso soups that are filled with carrot, seaweed, onion, and potatoes. Like the Sardinians, most of the long-living people of Okinawa grow most of their food in their own gardens. They go to the store for very little. Unfortunately, Okinawa is also westernizing and is beginning to lose its longevity edge. The youth of Okinawa now have the highest rate of obesity of any place in Japan. The culture that sustains longevity is rapidly disappearing as are their Centenarians.
The third hot-spot for longevity is in Loma Linda, California. This area is largely populated by Seventh-day Adventists. People in this region outlive their American counter-parts by about ten years. Most residents of Loma Linda belong to a religion that reinforces positive healthful lifestyle factors. They are taught to not drink or smoke, to be vegetarians, and to take one day each week to relax, to recreate, and to worship. Unlike Sardinia and Okinawa, the Seventh-day Adventists are not losing their longevity edge, even while living in a fully westernized area of the world.
Let’s review the positive lifestyle factors that influence these three leading populations today. First, living a content and happy life, without undue stress; second, enjoying loving social interactions each day with family and friends; third, maintaining a vigorous and active lifestyle; fourth, waking up each day with a sense of purpose, anticipation, and excitement; fifth, eating a predominantly plant-based diet that is low in caloric density and high in volume and nutrition; sixth, growing most of the food eaten in a family garden; seventh, abstinence from tobacco, alcohol, and other substances that place an undue burden on the body; and last but not least, preserving at least one day a week to unwind, rest, recreate, and worship.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
quote:Originally posted by beverly: For example, I remember a favorite recipe from the Philippines. Actually, I don't think it originated in the Philippines. Quid or Fahim may have even come across it. It is a sort of dessert that has a certain banana, glutinous rice "dumplings", tapioca balls and other ingredients floating in sweetened and aromated coconut milk and cream. It is very rich and is delicious both warm and cold. I don't make it often, but when I do, I'd like to feel that there is some benefit to it.
That doesn't sound at all familiar to me, but I'd like it to be. Won't'cha be, won't'cha be, won't'cha be my neighbor and share it? Please? Pretty please with a banana ball on top?
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Sure! It is called ginataan. It says pandan leaves "optional", but for me, they are the heart of the flavor. One long leaf works fine, though. (They sell pandan leaves frozen at our local foriegn foods market. I got a lot of the ingredients there.)
I still haven't figured out how to cook tapioca balls properly. Either the middle isn't cooked all the way, or they "melt". Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Pandan leaves? I've never heard of them. I wonder if there's a local equivalent name?
The recipe looks a little... bizarre. Possibly in a good way. I have no idea if Fahim would even try it - he hates sweet potatoes. I've only recently had local sweet potatoes, and I didn't mind them at all.
The plantain that's used - you mean plantain as in the starchy banana relative that must be cooked? I ask because here, bananas are called bananas and plantain, and the plantain as I know it is called Ash Plantain - it's a bizarre system of naming conventions! But then turmeric is also called saffron, and saffron is unknown and non-existent. It gets confusing. Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Pandan leaves. Nice site, because it tells you what they are called in *many* different languages.
I never make it with the sweet potato or the taro root because they just don't "do it" for me. I don't think "saba" and plaintain are the same thing, but I'm not sure. That's why rather than buy fresh plaintain, I found the right kind of "banana" canned at the Many Lands store. I don't know what it is called, the can just says "banana". But the picture is right. They are short and squat, and are good both fresh and cooked. They don't *need* to be cooked. Is this what you are thinking of as a plaintain?
Anyway, Porter thinks it's a *WEIRD* dish and won't touch it. I made it the other night while his parents and my mom were here, and they all adored it. My kids only like it when it's fresh and warm, not when it is cold.
[ February 22, 2006, 11:42 PM: Message edited by: beverly ]
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
It's Rampe, and yeah, that's easy to get here. Duh! And now I know that Rampe is the same as Screw Pine. Duh! Great link, beverly. Thanks! It's going to help me figure out a whole wackload of stuff.
I have a hard time imagining banana from a can. Can I mock you for that? The banana you use - is it about four inches long, yellow skinned when ripe, a bit rubbery, and sweet? If it is, that's what's locally called finger bananas.
Your second link doesn't work as is - and it's not just the an extra / at the end of it. It redirects to microsoft.com. Don't know why.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
quote:Can I mock you for that? [Wink]
You know not the bounds to which my naustalgia will drive me.
quote: The banana you use - is it about four inches long, yellow skinned when ripe, a bit rubbery, and sweet? If it is, that's what's locally called finger bananas.
Huh. The concept "finger bananas" sounds vaguely familiar. I wonder if they called them that in the Philippines too? I just can't remember. The description sounds right. When uncooked, they reminded me a bit of marshmallows. Very sweet.
Ooo, lemmie fix that link....
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
It probably is called that in the Phillippines. And yes, they are very sweet. A little rubbery, moister than regular bananas. Here, they're commonly eaten as a snack or with rice & curry, mashed into the rice.
The link still doesn't work - it just doesn't load (after two minutes of waiting). OTOH, it's possible that we're experiencing bad internet connections here - that happens often enough. I'll try again later.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
It's you, quid -- the link loads quickly for me.
Posted by Kent (Member # 7850) on :
ketchupqueen - I just bought some grapeseed oil and it tastes great! I just put it on as my salad dressing and it is awesome! Thanks!
Posted by Artemisia Tridentata (Member # 8746) on :
In Mexico they are called Finger Bananas (Platano de dedo) the ones like we see in Safeway are called Manila Bananas (Platano Manila)
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
The link loads fine this morning. Go figger.
The first picture looks like the ash plantain I mentioned, and the second picture looks like the finger bananas - fat, short, and yellow. Posted by Kent (Member # 7850) on :
I think I have found a verygood link that doesn't have anyone selling anything. It also had references at the end. I looked at other pages on his web site and the info on Partially Hydrogenated Oils and TransFats were particularly insightful for me.
I don't know if anyone else is trying to eat healthily but I am definitely trying to avoid the afternoon slump without resorting to caffeine or sugar. I've noticed nuts have been great for the "slow burn" they give for continual energy.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:ketchupqueen - I just bought some grapeseed oil and it tastes great! I just put it on as my salad dressing and it is awesome! Thanks!
Haha! Another convert!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Anyone who thinks that a given substance is a "miracle cure" is almost certain to be wrong.
And while he may or may not be selling anything, each of the books he cites certainly is.
I believe about 5% of what he said.
Posted by Kent (Member # 7850) on :
You read everything that fast?! Which 5%?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I skimmed -- the 5% is an estimate. Few of these claims are new to me; most are every bit as ridiculous as the ones on other coconut oil websites.
I believe that he is correct that it (may not be) as bad as some claim. It is a saturated fat. Heating unsaturated fats can cause trans fat formation (of course, not usually at the temperatures a home cook uses -- he neglects that point).
Etc. The 5% (or so) is completely mixed in with the exaggerations, hyperbole, and flat-out misinformation.
Pseudo-science at its best. Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Out of curiosity, what sort of temperature is required to form transfats?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
It depends on the oil. And to be honest, I do not recall any specific temperatures; just that only a tiny amount is likely to be thus affected when cooking.
Except perhaps when deep-frying. Which is probably best to avoid for the most part anyway.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
I actually followed your link, but you already need to know what is good and bad to read it. I tried dozens of different types of searches on coconut oil and kept coming up with the same research results - it rocks!![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
or to ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Evil]](graemlins/evil.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Won't'cha be, won't'cha be, won't'cha be my neighbor and share it? ![[Kiss]](graemlins/kiss.gif)
Pretty please with a banana ball on top?
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Possibly in a good way. I have no idea if Fahim would even try it - he hates sweet potatoes. I've only recently had local sweet potatoes, and I didn't mind them at all.![[Laugh]](graemlins/laugh.gif)