So this thread was sparked by Tatiana's car-buying thread, but not meant to be a response to anyone's post, it's just something I've been wondering about for a while.
For the last 5 years or so I've driven Volvos, first an old boxy one I got for cheap, and now a sleeker '98 model that we're almost done paying off. Both have been excellent cars, in the sense that they run well, don't tend to surprise us with anything, and have kept us safe in a couple of small fender- and deer- related accidents. We like to think that, should one of us find ourselves in a serious accident, we're likely to walk away unharmed. I don't really know if the numbers back that feeling up. The anecdotal evidence of Volvo drivers surviving serious accidents is overwhelming around here, but I don't really know how to interpret numbers like these:
Anyhow, here's my question. If we can assume that Volvos are, generally, safer cars that are more likely to keep the occupants alive in an accident, what keeps everyone from buying a Volvo?
Is it just the price of them? I know they've climbed well up into the range of luxury car prices. If cost wasn't an issue, would you buy a Volvo? Or is there something else that keeps people from considering them when they're looking for a new car?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
How's the gas mileage? How do they keep their retail value? Are they more or less expensive to maintain?
I don't know the answers to those questions, but if it costs more to own a Volvo, then the decision to buy a car that costs less to maintain could weigh more heavily than safety concerns.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Cost is usually my biggest issue with any major purchase. Volvos are just way out of my price range.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Lyrhawn: cost only has a limited amount to do with purchase price, and given the availability of credit with automotive purchases purchase price needn't affect you much.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
It does when you're a college student with extremely limited funds, and getting a loan with no credit isn't a snap yes.
When I say cost, I mean, what the car costs me to purchase.
My next car I probably won't strap myself down to cars that cost less than 12K for a new car, which in itself I realize in hindsight was far too expensive for me. But by then, it'll be in the 2010's, and who knows what will be out and what cars will cost.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
fugu - I disagree with you. Cost is cost, whether in the form of credit or cash.
Posted by Kosmic (Member # 9188) on :
While I think the answer you want is a bit more complicated, the simple answer from my perspective is that Volvo seems to have almost no name recognition. What I mean is, there doesn't really seem to be anything special about Volvos (other than, as you pointed out, their safety, which, of course, is a minor concern in the vastness of car concerns) that would bring them to someone's mind when thinking about buying a new car. For example, when I think of cars that get great gas mileage I think of Honda and Toyota. When I think of luxury cars I think of Lexus, BMW, Cadillac, and, for better or worse ( ), Hummer. Chevy makes good SUVs, Ford makes good trucks. Volkswagon has interesting designs, Mazda has sleek designs. It seems like there's no one thing that people think of to which they say: "Hey, Volvos are great at that!" I don't know if this search for a vehicle great at one or two things, as opposed to vehicles good at everything, is a good idea, but that seems to be the way things have shaped up.
This lack of name may also play a part in the vehicles most Volvos compete against; for the price of a Volvo S60, for example you could get a fully loaded Ford Mustang, a nicely equipped Chevy Trailblazer, etc.
A lack of advertisement might also be an issue; Ford seems to push its namesake line, along with perhaps Mazda, through television and other ads more often than it does the other lines it controls. At least where I live, I'm far far far more likely to see an ad for the Ford F-150 than the Volvo U70.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
No, you misunderstand me. I never said that the purchase price wasn't a cost when paid with credit, or anything close.
The cost of a car involves its lifetime costs, importantly including gas and any repairs that will be necessary. For instance, if one car costs $5k and will need $10k worth of repairs over the next ten years (on average), but another car costs $10k and will only need $2k worth of repairs, if at all possible one should purchase the second car (assuming equivalent gas mileages).
The high availability of credit on good terms means it is possible to make this choice even if one doesn't have $10k in cash, assuming the interest wouldn't change the balance of the equation.
Lyrhawn: for used cars, talk to your bank. If you've been banking with them for a while with a good record, you can often get a pretty good loan even if you have no credit history to speak of, particularly with local banks.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Yeah, that's what I did when I got the loan for the car I have now, which will thankfully be paid off in another 13 months.
Local credit unions are a lifesaver.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Ok, so I do agree with you after all. Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
Kosmic, Welcome to hatrack.
Zeugma, I think part of the problem is that safety isn't as big of a selling point as people think it is. They pay lip service to it, but really, no one plans on getting in an accident. I'd say price, looks, and reliability are all higher on the list. And Volvo isn't great on any of those.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I don't know, I think families looking for a safe car would choose a volvo over a less safe car that looks sporty. I wouldn't call safety a minor concern, for some people it is a major concern, especially when you consider all the deaths from traffic accidents that happen every year.
Not all cars offer side curtain airbags, and even fewer do in sedans. But studies have shown that side curtain airbags drastically improve the safety of a vehicle. Where I the parent in a family, I wouldn't even consider a car that didn't have them, and I believe it was pioneered by Volvo.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
You couldn't convince me to buy a Volvo. You couldn't even GIVE me a Volvo - I wouldn't drive it. I'd rather put my family's life at greater risk than drive one - hideously ugly, completely unreliable, overpriced cars.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Couldn't even GIVE you one?
Hell, I'd drive almost anything if someone GAVE it to me brand new.
Posted by Zeugma (Member # 6636) on :
Okay, so it's a combination of cost and them not being particularly appealing cars otherwise?
I have to admit I'm just totally unable to imagine safety not being my number one concern... aren't car crashes the number one cause of death in this country? It's way up there, at least. My next door neighbor died about a year ago when his car lost control on some ice and got crumpled. He had a little Mazda, I think, and I wonder if he might have survived it if he'd been in something sturdier. I can't tell you how many of our Volvo-driving friends have stories about wrapping their cars around trees, getting T-boned, having their cars completely destroyed, but walking away with relatively minor injuries. I mean, from age 0 to 15, I was in 4 different near-death car accidents... so maybe I'm more concerned about car safety than most?
The cost I know is a big concern. But if cost wasn't a factor, if Volvos cost about as much as Hondas, would people still avoid them?
Posted by Stasia (Member # 9122) on :
My parents had a Volvo in the eighties. It was a safe, boxy car in a hideous shade of green. I have fond memories of the car. I think I even gave it a name.
Unfortunately, the air conditioning was invariably broken during the 5 months of summer (we lived in Las Vegas) despite my mother paying hundreds of dollars to fix it every year (at the one dealership in town that would work on Volvos). Then the windows decided they would roll down but never, ever roll back up, even in the rain. Then there was the time it overheated (in February) and we were stranded on the side of the road in California.
To be fair, I hear that Volvos have gotten more reliable since the eighties, but it would take a lot to convince me to buy one, even though I consider "safe" very high on my list of priorities.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
I'm not saying it's a great car buying strategy, and maybe when more of my friends have families I'll have a different outlook. But I know a lot of people who've bought cars recently, as well as two people who own car dealerships, and none of them mention safety as a big deal breaker.
People expect cars to be safe, and as long as the car has seatbelts and airbags I think that's enough for most people. I didn't say that people are unconcerned with safety; it would be stupid to even imply it. But I don't believe it's thedeciding factor in car buying. I think price is a much bigger consideration.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Couldn't even GIVE you one?
Volvo, most GM cars, and a few other select makes are my Walmart - I'd refuse them on principle.
quote:The cost I know is a big concern. But if cost wasn't a factor, if Volvos cost about as much as Hondas, would people still avoid them?
I imagine people would be less inclined to avoid them if that was the case.
quote:People expect cars to be safe, and as long as the car has seatbelts and airbags I think that's enough for most people.
This rings true. I think a lot of people don't understand how much of a difference the various additional safety features make. That, and there are other factors that contribute to vehicle safety: how likely is this car to malfunction while I'm on a freeway? How likely is it that this car will be a target for crime?
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
People buy cars for a ton of different reasons, and the balance of reasons kind of determines what kind of car someone buys, along with past experiences.
I picked out my car, but it was a gift from my parents. I'd wanted a Volkswagen forever. The only car that my father had ever bought new until this one, as far as I know, was a Volkswagen he bought to drive my mother to the hospital when she was pregnant with me.
When I first started seeing ads for Passats, I told my mom right off the bat that that was what I wanted, even though I wasn't nearly old enough to drive. My father was skeptical at first, when it came time to make the actual car purchase decision, but he changed his mind after he did more research. I THINK these are the order of his criteria:
Safety (a big thing; my dad thought at first that I needed a massive boat of a car) Engine/Reliability Pickup/Driving fun (I learned to drive on a v8, and my first car was an old Jag) Gas milage
Well, the get-up-and-go of the engine and the engine reliability were probably about the same. My dad LOVES to drive my car. Especially since the one that we test drove was a GLX, and the one he bought is a GLX 4motion, and it handles so, so well. He also thinks Tiptronic transmission is super cool.
Actually, everybody who's ever driven my car loves it. It's a really smooth ride, and it's a pretty fast little car, all things considered.
My next car will probably be a Volkswagen or an Audi, depending on how Volkswagen ends up altering its designs (I like the look of the '04 Passat a LOT better than the newer ones).
Anyways. I think we kinda sorta considered Volvo, but the fact that my parents had already had a great experience with Volkswagen was a big deal.
I don't know how much the average person actually researches a vehicle, honestly. I wonder.
-pH
Posted by Zeugma (Member # 6636) on :
Thanks for the responses, everyone, this is really interesting to read!
I guess that, having already been subject to a good number of serious car accidents, none of which were caused by me or my driver, I very much see crashes as an expected consequence of being on the road. I don't stress out about it, but I think of it as a matter of when, not if, I'll next be involved in one. So to me driving the safest, most solidly-built car I can is just a no-brainer, like buying insurance or signing up for AAA roadside assistance. I guess I want it to look good and be fun to drive, sure, but in the back of my mind I know that won't matter a bit to me when I really need to depend on it.
Anyhow. I'm not trying to question anyone's priorities, a car is a very big purchase and there's a whole lot of stuff that goes into a decision like that. I'm just trying to see it from someone else's shoes.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
), Hummer. Chevy makes good SUVs, Ford makes good trucks. Volkswagon has interesting designs, Mazda has sleek designs. It seems like there's no one thing that people think of to which they say: "Hey, Volvos are great at that!" I don't know if this search for a vehicle great at one or two things, as opposed to vehicles good at everything, is a good idea, but that seems to be the way things have shaped up.![[Wink]](wink.gif)
It's a really smooth ride, and it's a pretty fast little car, all things considered.![[Smile]](smile.gif)