So as not to derail the violin thread, I'll do this here.
quote:Go to a reputable music store nearby -- perhaps the one that provides repairs and instruments for your local school music programs -- and have the salesperson help you find an appropriate instrument for you. Then, once he tells you what to buy, look for various sources online for that brand and model of violin! Or you can be nice and buy it from the music store, supporting your local economy. The local stores also often have financing options, including free or discounted repairs for the duration of the lease. It's a good thing.
I never ask for help in a store if I know up front that I don't intend to buy something there. It just seems wrong to me to take time from somebody who could be doing something that would be making themselves or the people who are paying them more money.
Now that doesn't mean I feel obligated to buy something once I ask for help. And I won't neccesarily buy something if I asked for help but discover it was too expensive or not right for me. But if I know I'm not going to buy it from them, I can't bring myself to make somebody give me their time and attention.
The more I feel like that person's time directly affects that person's salary, the more obligated I feel to keep this rule. I'm less inclined to keep it at, say, WalMart, with a customer service person than I am at say, a mom and pop shop where I'm dealing with either Mom or Pop.
I know lots of people who work retail with stories of people who do exactly what's described above, and then come right out and ask, "So where can I get this online cheaper?"
Does that feel like stealing value to anybody else?
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Giving advice is still of value to the store. If she buys a violin online, she will probably still take it into the store that helped her originally for repairs or accessories or other music-related needs. Building relationships with potential customers is never a waste of time.
-pH
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
I remember when the internet was just starting to be used for travel reservations, but was still not too user friendly for actual trip planning. An advice columnist recommended to someone that they go to a travel agent to get their trip planned, and then go online and try to find the same arrangements cheaper. She was completely slammed, since travel agents work on commission, and you were basically asking them to do all the work and not get paid.
It strikes me as horribly rude. I will do comparison shopping, when I have an idea of what I want. But I will not go in and rely on someone's expertise to figure out what I want with the intention of then making the purchase somewhere cheaper. I believe that people doing that is one of the reasons that it's hard to find places that provide good service anymore. . . they can't afford it without charging consulting fees.
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
I'll occasionally go into a specialty store looking to research products and I'll tell the clerk right up front, "I'm not ready to buy yet, I'm doing my research now so that I know exactly what I want and how much money (or space or whatever) I need to get it." Admittedly, that isn't always true. But I have always gotten excellent service when I've done so, even with them knowing that they aren't going to get a sale today. And yes, that has factored into my decision on occasion where price differences, including travel expenses, etc., were sufficiently negligible.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
In my system of ethics, it is unethical to let a shopkeeper believe that he might make a sale when you have no intention of buying.
If I go into a store just to browse, I am sure to tell the salesfolk, "just looking." If I have questions about their wares, and would like their help, I make sure that they are not serving any other customers, and I let them know that I am considering a purchase, but that I am not ready to buy now, or am shopping around for the best prices. If they choose to help me, terrific. If they choose not to waste their time on me, well, that's fair.
Posted by littlemissattitude (Member # 4514) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jack Bauer: I know lots of people who work retail with stories of people who do exactly what's described above, and then come right out and ask, "So where can I get this online cheaper?"
A couple of weeks ago I went into B. Dalton looking for a particular book, which they happened not to have, so I asked the clerk if she could order it for me. She looked it up, said yes, then said that she could either order it to the store or she could order it through B&N (the two are associated) and save me $1.50 and it would come to my house. So I didn't feel guilty at all taking the second option. The icing on the cake was that it took just about 29 hours from ordering at the book store to the UPS man bringing the book to my door.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I will tell people who need something I can't provide where to go to get it. I work in retail, and that is what my store, J C Penney, wants me to do.
If we can order it, fine...if not, or they can't wait for it, we tell them about other stores close by who might offer it in stock. If our talior can't do it in time we recommed several local shops who might be able to rush it for them.....I have even called the store for them to see if they could do it for my customers.
The customers remember that and come back 7 out of 10 times for other things. Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Kwea, I have beef with JC Penny. They delivered me mattresses that had both dirt and mold on them. And then they took about a month to deliver replacements.
Oh, and they mislabeled the boxes of the first mattresses, so they were originally delivered to someone else's address, which delayed my receipt of them by several days.
-pH
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:Originally posted by pH: mattresses that had both dirt and mold on them.
Oh no! Yuck! Not the Toxic Death Mold, was it?
Posted by Jack Bauer (Member # 9182) on :
Oh, no arguments here that it's not in the best interest of shopkeepers to help anyone the absolute best they can. Honestly, I'm in a business that I often reccomend that my customers don't use.
I'm just thinking of it from the customer side. From the retail side, outside customer service is never a bad idea.
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
quote:I never ask for help in a store if I know up front that I don't intend to buy something there. It just seems wrong to me to take time from somebody who could be doing something that would be making themselves or the people who are paying them more money.
You are assuming money is the only thing that matters here. That's false. The happiness or unhappiness that the work causes the shopkeeper also matters a great deal.
So keep in mind that the shopkeeper may value helping customers for its own sake, or at least prefer it to some more boring task he or she would be doing otherwise. Is so, your decision not to ask for help could be taking value away from him.
For instance, in bookstores the workers are often fans of books. They may actually prefer helping you figure out what book you want, even if you don't intend to buy it at their store.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Me, I'll go price shopping for tools/instruments/etc at chain retailers, then buy in a specialty store after listening to the owner's/clerk's recommendation inregard to the qualities of the specific brands/lines. Usually that means I'm paying a small premium, but I like the idea of helping to keep someone who actually knows his/her products, who actually cares about his reputation in business. In the long run it saves me money and (more importantly) time getting the best quality in the features-I-care-about within my price range rather than having to make a replacement purchase cuz I didn't know what I was doing when making the original purchase. Plus specialty stores can usually do regular maintenance and minor repairs in-store insteada having to send it out to a depot.
If the specialty store's prices are absurdly above chain retailers, then I might mention it. And in those cases, I've nearly always received a discount down to a competitive price. Usually at their insistence, cuz I've already told them that I'm not gonna take my business elsewhere.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
I think if you're upfront about your intent to do comparison shopping, it's OK to take up the salesperson's time. Then the salesperson can choose the appropriate response - make a good offer, try to win the future repair and sundries business, or decide not to bother.
The violin plan as announced - using the expertise with zero intent to buy there - strikes me as taking advantage.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
What are the ethics of it when you state up front that you do not intend to buy something?
The first time I needed to buy a car, I went to a car dealership to look. I said about three times in the first ten minutes that I would not sign anything that night. I didn't know anything about the process, and of course by the end of the night after a series of "Let's just see what we can do for a payment." "I don't want to sign anything tonight.", I was presented with paperwork and expected to sign.
I didn't. I was clearly naive, but I had said that I didn't want to sign anything that day and I was upset that I hadn't been taken seriously. I was more upset because the car they showed was one that I when I saw it, I said it wasn't quite was I was looking for, I wanted one a year older. "You don't want that - there aren't any around." Baloney - I felt like I wasn't being listened at any point, so I wasn't obligated to buy anything.
Clearly I should have asked Hatrack about how to buy a car and what to look for, but that didn't occur to me then.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:What are the ethics of it when you state up front that you do not intend to buy something?
You are absolutely in the right, then.
The car dealers were jerks.
quote:Baloney - I felt like I wasn't being listened at any point, so I wasn't obligated to buy anything.
Oh, and you're never obligated to buy anything by just listening to a sales pitch. Anyone tries to use guilt on me and I'm gone.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Well, the first thing ya do when walking into a car dealership is shoot one of the managers. Then start talking with a salesman. Get an agreement with another manager, and shoot him. Eventually you'll be offered a fair price. Unfortunately, the police frown upon that kind of thing.
The fact is that car lot managers get their jollies out of cheating customers, making money is only a side benefit. And no, I'm not kidding.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Okay. I'm glad I didn't give in and buy it from them.
I had experience like that at Bally's too - we talked to the salesperson, and I made the mistake of giving them my debit card. When presented with the paperwork to sign, that's when I noticed it was a three year contract with no out, because the paperwork says you buy a three year membership up front and pay it off in three years with interest. I didn't want to do it, and when I asked for my "application fee" back, they said it wasn't possible because it had already gone through. I went through three sales people because they kept bringing people in who would come and say "Don't you want to get in shape?" It was infuriating.
A year later, I noticed that Bally's had started debiting my account, despite me not joining and never going. I had never signed anything, and they were still taking money out automatically. I had to call my bank get them in on the struggle to return about $200 they had stolen.
Okay, rant over. As a side note, I love 24 Hour Fitness - much better all the way around, and never a problem.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
katharina, I had a very similar problem with Shapes!
As for buying a car, it's been my impression that it's best to be as detached and critical as possible. When my parents first began researching and talking to dealers, they absolutely refused to take a test-drive. All in all, I only test-drove two cars during the entire process, which lasted for quite a long time. Whenever we went to look at a car, we pretty much didn't say anything about what we liked about that particular car. We (and by "we," I mean my father because I don't know that much about the specifics of cars) asked a lot of probing questions and generally didn't give much positive response until we'd settled on the make and model of car.
Also, I think maybe it's better to go through the bank for the loan as opposed to the dealer, especially if you've been at that bank for a while.
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I'm glad I didn't give in and buy it from them.