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Pinky said, “I’m honest, Lean Bean. I may be a layabout, and a sometimes drunkard…”

“Probably oughn’t mention those things either,” Papa murmured.

“…but I’m honest. That’s the difference betwixt your Beecham fellow and myself.”

“’Betwixt.’ Listen to you. Or should I say ‘thou? Listen to thou.’” Papa poured himself another cup of tea.

Lisk piped up automatically, “You say, ‘thee,’ Papa.”

Papa scowled at him. “You shouldn’t say anything, young man, when your elders are talking.” But he said it half into his cup, so Lisk didn’t think he was serious.

“Pinky isn’t my elder. And anyway, my forty-nights is next week. I’m practically a man already.”

“Man already are you? Well, then, get thee to thine work, o man. That fence won’t build itself.”

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Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
 
I think you need a Quaker for help in this area -- or, pick up a copy of Christy for some pointers in thee-ing and thou-ing and thin-ing -
 

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Posted by Uprooted (Member # 8353) on :
 
Here's a fairly clear explanation.

I just googled your subject header; there were lots of other examples. Is that a passage you are writing? Looks to me like the usage is correct, except where the father makes his mistakes. "Thine work" should be "thy work," but I assume that was intentional.
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
It's actually pretty easy.

Thou = second person singular, subject.
Thee = second person singular, object.
Thy = second person singular, genitive.
Thine = second person singular, absolute genitive.

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"Thou see the stars, Mother?"
"Yes, dear. And I see thee as well."
"Do thy eyes still trouble thee, then?"
"No, not so much. And thine?"

Some Quakers use "thee" incorrectly, as both a subject and an object. In that case, the first sentence would read "Thee see the stars" or even "See thee the stars." But that's a fairly rare usage.
 

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Posted by ReikoDemosthenes (Member # 6218) on :
 
I thought the third line would read "Do thine eyes still trouble thee, then?" due to the following word, "eyes," beginning with a vowel.
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
I'm a little vague on whether you'd use "thine" in that case. There's a lot of prior art which suggests that "thine" and "mine" are often used to avoid the vowel collision, but I'm not sure they're actually used CORRECTLY. I used that example specifically because I hoped for more input on that one, since it's the main question I have. Everything I see indicates that "thine" is an absolute genitive, and my understanding of that case (which comes from Greek, so it may not be correct in English) is that you wouldn't use it there.

We need Jon Boy on that one. *grin*
 

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Posted by Uprooted (Member # 8353) on :
 
One source I saw said that "thine" before a vowel was used inconsistently in the KJV, and that the custom may have solidified after that time.

Wouldn't it be "Dost thou see the stars, Mother?"
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
Only if you're also using old verb forms as well. (Of course, it sounds weird to my ear to NOT use them, but I don't think they're technically required.)
 

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Posted by Uprooted (Member # 8353) on :
 
Then "Did thou see the stars?" (which doth sound very weird ;-)
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
I think "did thou" and "dost thou" are actually two different tenses. *laugh* And so's "seest thou the stars," I believe.

That said, my understanding of the form is that "Dost thou see the stars" or "Seest thou the stars" would both be correct, depending on meaning.
 

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Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
 
"Dost" is like "do", right?
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
Yep. It's "do-est."
Most second-person singular verbs add "est" to the end. There are a few irregulars, like "is" -- which conjugates to "art" in the second-person singular -- but most of 'em fit that form.
 

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Posted by Uprooted (Member # 8353) on :
 
Yes, you're both right, I do believe, my bad. Dost thou would be the same as do thou (do you) or seest thou . . . "Did thou" would be the "Didst thou."
 

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Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
 
I would say, "Get thee to thy work," rather than "thine work."

Also, I think it sounds more natural to say, "Listen to thyself," but then you lose the joke.
 

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Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
I agree with Uprooted I think it would be Didst thou see...

or if it isnt in past tense Dost thou see the stars?

Or even Seest thou the stars?
Do thine eyes see the stars?
Hast thou seen the stars?

Interstingly enough Mormons are taught to pray using those words as a form of respect rather than referring to god as "you" or "your"

It isnt just the quakers.
 

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Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 

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Originally posted by TomDavidson:
Only if you're also using old verb forms as well. (Of course, it sounds weird to my ear to NOT use them, but I don't think they're technically required.)

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quote:

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Originally posted by TomDavidson:
That said, my understanding of the form is that "Dost thou see the stars" or "Seest thou the stars" would both be correct, depending on meaning.

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Interstingly enough Mormons are taught to pray using those words as a form of respect rather than referring to god as "you" or "your"

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Is that a passage you are writing?

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