Hatrack River Forum: Alternate History (Does it count?)

This is topic Alternate History (Does it count?) in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.

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Posted by Evie3217 (Member # 5426) on :

I was reading The Year's Best Science Fiction for my English class, and I came upon an interesting story. It chronicled the term of Joe Steele, the man who beat out FDR (by burning down his governor's mansion) and shot half of the Supreme Court for suspected treason. I was just wondering, how did this story make it into a collection about science fiction? Does alternate history count and why?

Any thoughts on the subject would be very much appreciated.

Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :

Personally, I don't consider most Alternate History to be science fiction. It's its own genre. Exceptions would be if the timeline is "alternate" because someone from the future travelled back to change it, and things with otherwise sci-fi elements like Turtledove's series with aliens showing up in the middle of WWII.

--Enigmatic

Posted by Avatar300 (Member # 5108) on :

I think that alternate history is placed under the term speculative fiction, along with science fiction and fantasy. It really has nowhere else to go.

My thinking is that alternative history taking place the modern era would make it into a book like this, and any taking place in older times would be in a similar fantasy anthology.

Posted by Coatesie (Member # 9202) on :

I agree with Avatar, and OSC would as well. He includes alternate history stories in his definition of SF in "How to Write Science Fiction & Fantasy."

I suppose that if someone wanted to be rigid about genre distinctions, alternate history ought to be categorized as historical fiction, but that generally suggests fictional individuals taking any action in an actual historical millieu, and would therefore exclude alternate history stories like "Suppose They Gave a Peace," which focuses on a fictional family during a successful McGovern campaign, and also something like "The Winterberry," which postulates an alternate outcome to a real historical event and has only major historical figures as characters.

Enigmatic, if "The Guns of the South" is classified as science fiction strictly because Turtledove has characters using visible time machines as part of a plan to change history, would you classify "Lest Darkness Fall" as a fantasy because de Camp has Martin Padway show up in medieval Rome without explanation? With all respect, the distinction is a little unclear to me.

Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :

DD Shade has a wonderful list of examples of speculative fiction. i really prefer that term.

Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :

Hey, where is the Lost Books link???

Posted by Evie3217 (Member # 5426) on :

Coatesie, could you give me that definition? I'm trying to look for it, but I can't find it anywhere. If you could help me out, I would really appreciate it. Thanks.

Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :

Here is the link I was looking for:

http://www.lostbooks.org/speculative-fiction.html

"In Speculative Fiction the action of the story can take place in a culture that never existed, a world we know nothing of, or an earth that might have been or might be, to name a few. "

Posted by Evie3217 (Member # 5426) on :

Elizabeth, you're awesome. [Big Grin]

Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :

Here, Evie, this is from D.D. Shade's site, quoting OSC.

"According to Orson Scott Card (See How to Write Science Fiction and Fantasy, Writer's Digest Books, 1990, p. 17), Speculative Fiction includes all stories that take place in a setting contrary to known reality. This includes:

All stories set in the future, because the future can't be known. Out-of-date futures, like that depicted in the novel 1984, simply shift from the "future" category to:

All stories set in the historical past that contradict known facts of history or "alternate world" stories.

All stories set on other worlds, because we've never gone there. Whether "future humans" take part in the story or not, if it isn't Earth, it belongs to fantasy and science fiction.

All stories supposedly set on Earth, but before recorded history and contradicting the known archaeological record--stories about visits from ancient aliens, or ancient civilizations that left no trace, or, "lost kingdoms" surviving into modern times.

All stories that contradict some known or supposed law of nature. Obviously, fantasy that uses magic falls into this category, but so does much science fiction: time travel stories, for instance, or invisible-man stories.

In short, science fiction and fantasy stories are those that take place in worlds that have never existed or are not yet known."

Posted by Evie3217 (Member # 5426) on :

That's great. I'm not sure how I'll work this in yet, but I think I can do it. You're incredible. [Kiss]