Here's a jaw-dropping article from the Arizona Republic:
The marketing of Marissa Leigh, age 16, is a job that employs 12 people. The Scottsdale princess has a manager and a publicist, of course. She has a voice coach and a makeup artist and a hairstylist willing to jet off whenev[er], wherev[er].
Then there's the Web master. The photographer, who also shoots Lindsay Lohan. The guy who listens to Marissa humming on a tape recorder, and then puts the music on paper. And sure, she has an acting coach. Actually, two.
Her mother is the goddess of her schedule, her wardrobe, her bathroom remodel. And, of course, Daddy, whose job it is to pay.
"Marissa wants to be a star," the Republic explains. She has a Web site where you can hear her sing and link to her résumé, which is less than extensive. She has sung the National Anthem four times and appeared on stage four times, most recently playing Dorothy in a Scottsdale community theater's performance of "The Wizard of Oz."
But if she hasn't yet made it big, it's not from lack of trying. Her parents, the Dubowys (the article doesn't explain, but we guess Leigh is a stage name), just spent $150,000 giving her a "Sweet 16" birthday party:
The Dubowys flew Marissa to LA to shop for her $5,000 party dress and commissioned a $3,200 cake from local pastry artist Tammie Coe. Marissa wanted a band, and she was told to make a wish list. Hilary and Haylie Duff were busy, so her parents imported recording artist Frankie J (he's big) instead to serenade Marissa in front of her carefully vetted 150 guests.
They spent $50,000 to rent a house for the party, and gave her the gift every 16-year-old craves: a new car. And a second new car: "a red convertible Mitsubishi Eclipse 'to drive on weekends,' " as her father tells her.
MTV taped the festivities, at which Marissa sang two songs. But when they watch the program on MTV, Marissa and her mom, K.K., "are in shock":
"They didn't show her singing," says K.K. "Every single show from last season, they showed the person performing." . . .
"They spent five minutes on the poodles," K.K. says, "but didn't show a minute of the limo rides, the plane rides, all the money stuff." . . .
A few days later, after the phone has stopped ringing with congrats ("She looked so cute") or consolation ("We know Marissa's not really like that"), after Marc has endured countless comments in the vein of "will you be my daddy?" K.K. explains: "I know that over-the-top is the best description, and I know a lot of people look on it negatively.
But we knew it when we went into it, and we all had a great time. And it will be a memory Marissa will have for the rest of her life."
What a depressing thought. Oh well, it got into the paper, so at least the publicist is doing his job.
This defies comment from me. The only thing I can think of to say is "HOLY SCHNIKES!!!!!!"
I mean seriously. . . this is SO beyond spoiled. . . and for what?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Wow. Think of what that money could have done . . .
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Seriously, that could have funded four regularly extravagent sweet sixteen parties.
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
Just four, Lyrhawn? That'd still be over $35K per party!
Unbelievable...
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Most WEDDINGS don't cost $35K!
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
I feel sorry for that child. One day she's going to wake up and realize that there isn't always going to be someone there to give her everything she wants. The parents are doing her no favors by teaching her that she can have anything she wants without working for it.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Belle: One day she's going to wake up and realize that there isn't always going to be someone there to give her everything she wants.
Or, worse yet, she never will. If she really does get her dream of becoming a "star" . . .
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
Eh. She'll never get a job unless she starts sleeping her way to the top. She's nothing special to look at and I'm sure her voice is pitch-shifted to hell and is otherwise boring and lifeless.
To summarize in one word: Average.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
If she marries a rich boy, I don't think she will ever realize that.
And Nell, you figure the parents buy each kid in those four parties a new car, that's half the cost of the party right there. And when you consider how much all those teenage stars cost per personal visit. I'd almost call it a bargain.
Posted by littlemissattitude (Member # 4514) on :
I'm sorry. That's just obscene. It isn't funny. It isn't cute. It's just sick. Based on monthly income, my mother and I could live for over seven years on what they spent on that party. Yes, I said seven years - I did the math. Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
quote: One day she's going to wake up and realize that there isn't always going to be someone there to give her everything she wants.
Hopefully, this will happen before she's elected President.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
I'm so happy that she's utterly untalented as a singer, and not classically pretty enough to be a top film actress.* The universe is at peace.
*Not that she's not pretty. Just not "A list celebrity flawless". She's an attractive girl.
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: And Nell, you figure the parents buy each kid in those four parties a new car, that's half the cost of the party right there. And when you consider how much all those teenage stars cost per personal visit. I'd almost call it a bargain.
That's true. I guess my idea of "regularly extravagant" doesn't include personal seranades, or even a new car, for that matter. I was thinking more along the lines of lots of guests, catered food, and a DJ. Guess that shows I'm not really in Marissa's league.
Posted by Celaeno (Member # 8562) on :
...you know it's bad when she's off-key on the demo.
Have any of you seen the show? It's MTV's My Super Sweet Sixteen. I have a friend who's obsessed with it; she forced me to watch an episode with her. I felt like throwing up. These girls throw tantrums when they don't get everything they think they deserve. Spoiled children should at least know how lucky they are.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Heck, my idea of a birthday party is a pizza party at a bowling alley. If I wanted to kick it up a notch I guess maybe a DJ, though that doesn't really seem worth the cost with today's easy to use at home MP3 and radio technology.
I might consider buying the kid (if I had one) a car for his/her 16th, but more than likely I'd just offer to match whatever funds they came up with for the car, and then help them out on insurance and gas. I'm not usually a fan of giving away anything major like that, it should be earned.
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
Yeah, that pretty much matches my definition of a "regular" birthday party. The hypothetical DJ and catering would be the "extravagant" part.
I'm trying to remember if I even had a party for my 16th...I think I had a sleepover. We went on a nice long bike ride, got ice cream, had cake and food (that my mom cooked) at my house, then stayed up all night and watched movies. That was totally adequate for me. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
We (a family of four with two in diapers) could live for three years, in southern CA, more comfortably than we do now, on that much money.
That irritates me.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:Special Skills: marissaleighonline.com, Pop,Jazz & Broadway, Singing Styles, Equestrian, Surfing, Swimming, Dance Hip Hop, Dance Jazz, Dance Tap, Dancer, Licensed Driver, Singer, Vocal Range: Alto, Vocal Range: Soprano, Voiceover, British Accent, Cockney Accent, Irish Accent, Italian Accent, New York Accent, Southern Accent
Posted by Evie3217 (Member # 5426) on :
Wow. Just... wow. I don't understand how parents think that spoiling a kid like that really makes them a better person. It just makes them greedy. I just don't understand the parents, let alone their daughter.
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
quote:That was then and this is now, We all get there somehow. That was then and this is me, this is exactly where I wanna be.
Oh, I have no doubt. A completely unremarkable voice. And the angel wings made me want to kick a puppy.
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
I'm not sure I understand the outpouring of negative emotion here. I mean, I feel sorry for the girl and am disappointed in what appears to be her parents behavior, but I don't understand bearing her ill will. What does it take from you that they spent a lot of money on this? Why does that they spent a lot of money on something frivilous bother some people so much?
Posted by Tstorm (Member # 1871) on :
Seven years living expenses?
*Does some math*
Yeah, that sounds about right, at my current levels.
This is one of those situations where I'd love to fast-forward 10, 20, or 40 years and see the ending on. What happened to Marissa? Did daddy manage to keep his high-paying job to retirement? Any regrets? I fully realize these parents are not thinking about the future.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
At least she's old enough to want this for herself. It's better than the parents who force their 4-5 year olds to try and become stars.
I think the worst thing is that she'll most likely never amount to anything, and any true talents she might have will go undiscovered as she tries to become a star.
I haven't heard her cockney accent though, that might be a killer.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: Wow. Think of what that money could have done . . .
please, you can't buy taste, no-matter what its worth Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
quote:Have any of you seen the show?
I find myself oddly drawn to that show. It's like watching a National Geographic special on a foreign culture. What both the parents and the children consider normal is very, very strange. What I really don’t understand is why any of those girls would ever agree to be on the show after they’ve seen it. Do they not realize that the point is to mock them?
Posted by Roseauthor (Member # 148) on :
Can we say Paris Hilton boys and girls?
Are you so amazed that money can buy fame? Jessica Simpson, should not be be far off from your memories either! Society sat around watching Jess and Nick all in the name of a promotional series!
Yes, there are wacky parents who will sell their kids just so they (the parents) can live vicariously through their kids. This isn't much different that the cheerleader moms and the football dads. Either way, the parents were failures and live through their kids. TV has shown us that money buys happiness and success!
Please, don't disillusion the masses by telling them otherwise. Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by MrSquicky:
quote: One day she's going to wake up and realize that there isn't always going to be someone there to give her everything she wants.
Hopefully, this will happen before she's elected President.
The really pathetic thing is how true that really is. In this culture where all it takes is publicity, anything seems possible.
I saw some little show on E or something about Hulk Hogan's daughter. I think I saw something on her a year or so ago, and it was essentially the same story, but the girl is taller now and has a personal trainer. At 16, Hogan's daughter also wants to be "a star." I stuck around long enough to see her talk about how homeschooling only takes her 2 hours a day, then she gets personal training, then I guess she goes shopping.
The showed about 4 seconds of her singing, and it was less than stellar. For a half hour show about someone who wants to be a singer... 3 seconds of singing is a bit telling.
P.S. I listened to that web page.... Posted by Earendil18 (Member # 3180) on :
quote:Originally posted by MrSquicky: [q] I'm not sure I understand the outpouring of negative emotion here. I mean, I feel sorry for the girl and am disappointed in what appears to be her parents behavior, but I don't understand bearing her ill will. What does it take from you that they spent a lot of money on this? Why does that they spent a lot of money on something frivilous bother some people so much? [/q]
That's a good question at then end there, but the first two sentences didn't make sense.
You do touch on something here, perhaps...Nah I don't want to start another thread.
This kind of touches on Ph's earlier thread about spoiled brats etc. I'm surprised he's not in this thread. Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
PH= female, I believe. Although....
Squicky, it urks me because it represents everything that is soleless and wrong with society. I blame the girl because she is obviously inherently selfish enough to believe this crazy world view that her parents have constructed for her. If you can blame someone at the age of 16 for being a murderer and not try the parents for that crime, then you can hold a 16 diva responsible for being a complete twit. Her parents are equally dumb, but that blame can only go so far.
Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
I'm not sure it's safe to make assumptions about the how bratty someone is based on an article that clearly intends to sell its story to the reader by spinning this girl as a stereotypical rich brat as much as possible. And while rich = selfish brat on TV, that stereotype doesn't necessarily hold true in real life in all circumstances.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Contrarian again, Tres? Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:And while rich = selfish brat on TV, that stereotype doesn't necessarily hold true in real life in all circumstances.
Ah, but this isn't simply rich. It's rich and spoiled.
But when I think of all of the terrible things happening in this world that I should get indignant about, things like this don't even make my top 100.
Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
quote:Contrarian again, Tres?
Somebody's got to point this stuff out - might as well be my job. Assumptions can be dangerous things! (At least when used to justify disliking people...)
quote:But when I think of all of the terrible things happening in this world that I should get indignant about, things like this don't even make my top 100.
#1? Bears. (Sorry, couldn't resist....)
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:Squicky, it urks me because it represents everything that is soleless and wrong with society.
My first reaction was pretty much like yours. However, it would be incredibly easy for most of the people on this planet to talk about how spoiled and rich any of us are, based simply on the fact that we can divert enough time away from the pursuit of survival and energy sources away from growing food or obtaining clean water to complain about this girl on an internet forum.
Even most of us with very hard childhoods got to go to school instead of having to work more than full time hours to earn money for the family. For half the world, that $150,000 is equivalent to 7 years' salary for 30 people.
Heck, just the fact that even an uninsured person (at least one who lives near a hospital) in this country can go to an emergency room and get treatment in cases of severe illness or trauma puts their acces to medical care on a whole other plane of existence than at least hundreds of millions of people in the world.
I'd wager that those of us on this forum are all susceptible to being called spoiled based on our consumption levels compared to most people in the world.
quote:But when I think of all of the terrible things happening in this world that I should get indignant about, things like this don't even make my top 100.
Pretty much.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Baleeted by Scott.
[ April 28, 2006, 10:48 AM: Message edited by: Scott R ]
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Dag -- I agree. The difference between this family and 99.99% of us (me included) is only in degree.
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
I heard someone once say that money doesn't change a person, it just reveals who he is. This mother appears to be spoiling her child, but that spoiling really has nothing to do with money. It's her attitude that's spoiling her child, and that attitude would still be there whether she had a million dollars or nothing at all.
Yes, the mother could be spending all that money on much more useful investments, but so could practically everyone.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Dag pretty much took the words out of my mouth.
Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
I am so ashamed. I've seen that episode. My girlfriend made me watch it, I swear!
But I wasn't thinking about how unfair it all is, I was thinking "how do I meet her? and after I meet her, how do I woo her?" Oh yeah, I'm gonna marry that rich b*tch and I ain't sharin' jack with you.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Want to know what's funny? It sounded so much like you, Noemon, that I thought it was you. It wasn't until I went to reply to it that I noticed it wasn't.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
That is funny, Porter. It really is almost word for word (except "heck"--I don't really use "heck" much) the response I was drafting in my head as I was reading through everyone's comments.
Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
quote:I'd wager that those of us on this forum are all susceptible to being called spoiled based on our consumption levels compared to most people in the world.
I agree, but I also think such claims would be wrong. Our wealth, as a society, does not inherently make us spoiled - but it could, if we allow it to.
I agree with what Camus said: if this girl is spoiled, it's not the wealth itself, but the way she has been taught to approach the wealth. I think you can give someone everything, but if they are also taught how to be responsible and generous with what they have, they won't turn out spoiled at all.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Poor. Kid.
EDIT: I'm with Camus and Tresopax:
Although I recognise what you're saying, Dagonee (and Noemon), that we as Westerners are incredibly fortunate to have computer and cars and things, and perhaps that can be called being 'spoiled', but I don't think that's the real issue here. Lots of people in the world are splendiferously rich and although they are tremendously fortunate compared to the majority of the world, they are not spoiled.
Sure, this kid has a lot of stuff she doesn't need to survive, but so do a lot of people- so do we all, as you say- but its not just the money that makes a spoiled child, but the pandering and the creation of a child who lives in an illusory world, the complete and utter uselessness of throwing a $150 000 birthday party and buying a second car for your child. Of giving her a publicist and a manager. You can have nothing and still spoil your child.
The fact that this girl is not only spoilt but with the kind of things that most of us can't only not afford but can't even imagine at all wanting only makes it seem worse. You can make noises about degree, but there is something else at work here that is just beyond being fortunate.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Our wealth, as a society, does not inherently make us spoiled - but it could, if we allow it to.
I agree, but for the vast majority of us, I'd change the last part to "but it did, because we allowed it to."
[ April 28, 2006, 12:27 PM: Message edited by: mr_porteiro_head ]
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
Ok, here's another topic: If someone wants to be a star, why do their stylists dye their hair and dress them just like everyone else trying to be a star? The flat-ironed fake blonde with brown highlights is so unattractive, as is the fake tan and frosted lipstick. If you stuck her in a room with my high school choir kids she's blend right in. Boring. Blendy. Not even the most flattering thing for her.
:shrug:
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
You know what's ironic (just as a side note out of this Very Serious Discussion)? There's a young actress (born 1986, so I'm sure a different person) who was acting up until 2002 called "Marissa Leigh".
When you search "Marissa Leigh" on google, you do not get this girl but you get a legitimately semi-successful child acress.
If I were Marissa Leigh aged sixteen and her parents, it would really bother me that this other Marissa Leigh had all the hits on google.
EDIT: Another chapter in this rather sad story is an article (well, almost and article) I found about this Marissa Leigh when she was thirteen; pretty much the same except:
quote:"By the time I'm 15, maybe 16," Marissa says, "I hope that I'm famous, that I have a record deal and that I have videos on MTV.
I think the dream isn't coming alive, and it's getting scarier and scarier.
Posted by SC Carver (Member # 8173) on :
I wouldn't complain about the money going to waste. After all did give a car salesman a very nice commission, as well as giving a good paying jig to some caterer's and who ever else worked on the party, don’t forget all the stores that benefited from her shopping spree. I mean yes it could have feed half of Africa’s staving for a week, but how many of our wealthy couldn’t give that much anytime if they were so inclined.
I agree this is about the worst way to produce a well rounded, caring and useful person, but I guess that isn't what the parents care about trying to do. I do feel sorry for her, but not that sorry.
Posted by Architraz Warden (Member # 4285) on :
I almost feel sorry for Tammie Coe being mentioned in this article. They're a reasonably priced bakery that can make custom shaped cakes that don't taste like styrofoam.
(EDIT: The party is) Extravagant, wasteful, what's worse than spoiled again? Yeah, must be north Scottsdale...
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:I agree this is about the worst way to produce a well rounded, caring and useful person, but I guess that isn't what the parents care about trying to do.
They don't want a well rounded and useful person. They want a star.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
This is nothing compared to Matt Lauer's brand new 13 million a year contract. That's enough for him to spend over $30,000 a day.
To say nothing, of course, of the thousands of people who make even more than he does.
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
quote:Ok, here's another topic: If someone wants to be a star, why do their stylists dye their hair and dress them just like everyone else trying to be a star? The flat-ironed fake blonde with brown highlights is so unattractive, as is the fake tan and frosted lipstick. If you stuck her in a room with my high school choir kids she's blend right in. Boring. Blendy. Not even the most flattering thing for her.
That was exactly what I thought when I looked at her website. She looks like virtually every girl her age at the mall. If you're spending all this money on stylists and managers, you'd think she could be edgier or something. She's not a bad singer, but there's nothing remarkable about her, and with all the fluff around her, it's hard to tell how much is her and how much is the window dressing they've hired out. The saddest quote to me was how they didn't want her to even try out for AI because she wouldn't want to be tied to it for four years, like they assume she'd win. And from listening, I think she'd be lucky to get a gold ticket, let alone make the semis or finals.
Posted by Kristen (Member # 9200) on :
From the article:
quote:"She's spoiled," Dubowy says, "but hopefully, it's a grounded spoiled."
This reminds me of a girl I went to high school with. She literally took up 5 minutes of English class complaining that her father could *only* spend half a million on her debutante party.
Posted by Stan the man (Member # 6249) on :
From the special skills portion of the resume.
quote: British Accent, Cockney Accent, Irish Accent, Italian Accent, New York Accent, Southern Accent
Ain't she talented? She can do accents...wow...not.
Hearing her sing makes me want to cut off my ears with a spoon. However, why punish myself? Someone should stop strangling the cat.
Ah well, she's just another spoiled little rich girl. She'll fit in nice with the new upholstery... Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
She sounds about as good as a lot of the stuff that gets played on the radio.
Posted by Stan the man (Member # 6249) on :
I don't listen to radio anymore. Too many commercial breaks. This probably also explains why my music collection is a tad out of date.
Posted by Kristen (Member # 9200) on :
From the special skills portion of her resume:
quote:Licensed Driver
Clearly, she is over-qualified.
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
Stan, have you tried satellite radio? Sirius came with my new car and I think I will have to re-up when it expires at the end of the year...I love that almost all the music channels are commercial free.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee:
quote:Squicky, it urks me because it represents everything that is soleless and wrong with society.
My first reaction was pretty much like yours. However, it would be incredibly easy for most of the people on this planet to talk about how spoiled and rich any of us are, based simply on the fact that we can divert enough time away from the pursuit of survival and energy sources away from growing food or obtaining clean water to complain about this girl on an internet forum.
I'm sorry but this is the approach to the world that would lead me to simply never feel justified in complaining or arguing about anything, simply because I was fortunate enough to be born in America and not the Sudan.
This girl is way beyond reason, and all sense of proportion, and just because I live in that society along with her, doesn't mean I don't get to criticise. In fact I think we should be more critical of all the idiots that give us a bad name as Americans, don't you?
I can understand why you would make such an argument, however I can't see how you can make such a statement in defense of the girl, given the amount of time you also spend on a forum. Meh, it doesn't take a genius to see where this girl is headed in life.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kristen: From the special skills portion of her resume:
quote:Licensed Driver
Clearly, she is over-qualified.
Ah to be 16 again, that is SUCH a big deal for her I bet.
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
quote:I'm sorry but this is the approach to the world that would lead me to simply never feel justified in complaining or arguing about anything, simply because I was fortunate enough to be born in America and not the Sudan.
Well, to me that approach just means that some things that other people do are not worth worrying about, especially if I could be guilty of the same thing, which gives me time to worry about things that I do feel are important.
quote:just because I live in that society along with her, doesn't mean I don't get to criticise.
What exactly is there to criticize her for? She's making decisions based on what she thinks she wants in life. Maybe she'll learn from them, maybe she won't. In either case, I don't really see how it would affect you or me.
quote:I blame the girl because she is obviously inherently selfish enough to believe this crazy world view that her parents have constructed for her
To be fair, children often times believe a lot of things their parents tell them. Even when they are older than 16.
quote:...then you can hold a 16 diva responsible for being a complete twit.
I laugh at some of my attitudes and ideas from when I was 16, or even last month, and am glad that most people recognize that we all change our views in life a few more times than we would have expected when we were young and knew everything.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
I guess that's why we try 15 year olds for adult murder in this country. Your attitude, though understanding, is difficult to justify. You have to hold people accountable at some point for who they are and what they are worth. This girl invited critisicm by placing herself deliberately in public view; what's more, she is awful at what she claims to do. I've listened to the demo, I saw the show, she's a horrible human being.
Your can plead understanding all you want, but this guilt trip about how good we all have it is lame and beside the point. Give yourself a little more credit Camus, you were just never THIS stupid. Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:however I can't see how you can make such a statement in defense of the girl, given the amount of time you also spend on a forum.
I'm curious as to what in my post you read as a defense of this girl.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
quote:Give yourself a little more credit Camus, you were just never THIS stupid.
I'm pretty sure most of us at some point in our lives were at least that stupid. I just thank God my vanity was never made that public. (I probably need to thank my parents for that, too.)
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: I'm curious as to what in my post you read as a defense of this girl.
Then why are you arguing with me.... *facepalm*
You ALWAYS DO THIS!!!! Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
quote:
quote:Licensed Driver
Clearly, she is over-qualified.
Um, about the driving... Having a driving licence is a legitimate thing for a potential actress to have on a resume.
Like this actress.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Then why are you arguing with me.... *facepalm*
It wasn't a defense of the girl so much as an indictment of her accusers, so if you feel the indictment isn't deserved, then...
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:this guilt trip about how good we all have it is lame and beside the point
It is absolutely not beside the point. The very first comment was "Wow. Think of what that money could have done."
I don't know your spending habits, but I'd bet a lot of money that from the perspective of large percentage of the people on earth, the money that you spend on frivolousness is obscene bordering on criminal. I say this based on nothing more than the fact that you reside in the first world.
Whether or not the amount of money spent on luxury is too much or not is very much on point.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Next time you think about buying a pack of oreos at the store then, I expect you not to do it, and give your money to save the children.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Forget the children, send me the money so I can buy some delicious beverages. Or just send me some delicious beverages.
DAMN YOU ANTI-BEER US GOVERNMENT!!! (still bitter)
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
quote: You have to hold people accountable at some point for who they are and what they are worth. This girl invited critisicm by placing herself deliberately in public view; what's more, she is awful at what she claims to do. I've listened to the demo, I saw the show, she's a horrible human being.
I'm not saying she shouldn't be accountable for her decisions. What I'm trying to say is that the decisions she makes are of absolutely no concern to me. It's not worth getting worked up over every single person that gets something they may or may not deserve. There are too many of them and too little time to spend on something so trivial.
Now, I do feel that you have every right to say that in your opinion she's a horrible singer. You have every right to not like her music or her career path just as I have every right to ignore her. However, I think it's, at the very least, a bit careless to label her a horrible person.
quote:Next time you think about buying a pack of oreos at the store then, I expect you not to do it, and give your money to save the children.
The point is not that we should abandon our lifestyles just because others don't have what we have, rather, the point is that it is a bit hypocritical to judge or condemn other people's spending habits when we do the same things ourselves but to a slightly lesser degree.
And as I mentioned earlier, it's not the money that's really the issue, it's the attitude that her parents are instililng in her. The money just makes visible the attitude that was already present.
[ April 28, 2006, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: camus ]
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
If you think the degree doesn't matter, you should examine it again.
It does, at least for most of us, in most situations.
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
quote:If you think the degree doesn't matter, you should examine it again.
I think the degree is of some importance, but not as much as some people make it out to be. I mean, isn't it just assumed that the more disposable income you have, the more money you will probably spend on frivolous things? If I were a billionaire, the percent of my wealth spent on unnecessary items is going to be much higher than if I were at the poverty level.
The idea that rich people are going to spend a lot of money on things they don't need and that I don't have doesn't really surprise or bother me. Sure, they could spend their money on more useful things, but I'm sure there are plenty of people that would say the same thing about me.
The amount of money they spent on the party, or the degree of extravagance, is not the problem, just evidence of the problem.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: Next time you think about buying a pack of oreos at the store then, I expect you not to do it, and give your money to save the children.
What have I said that make you think this is a reasonable expectation?
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
Wow.
That was almost like reading Myspace.
[edit] To clarify, a really annoying myspace.
--j_k
[ May 02, 2006, 07:27 PM: Message edited by: James Tiberius Kirk ]
Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
quote:Then why are you arguing with me.... *facepalm*
You ALWAYS DO THIS!!!!
You know... it's possible to argue against part of what you are saying without arguing against ALL of what you are saying. Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: Next time you think about buying a pack of oreos at the store then, I expect you not to do it, and give your money to save the children.
What have I said that make you think this is a reasonable expectation?
Duh, its not. That is my point.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Apparently you missed Porter's point.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Perhaps you missed your calling as a lawy....oh wait a sec.... Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Just because YOU expect most very rich people to waste money doesn't mean it is a reasonable expectation.
As a matter of fact most millioraires DON'T wasyte money like that....which is how they got to be millioaires in the first place.
Ever read "The Millioaire Next Door" ?
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
quote:Just because YOU expect most very rich people to waste money doesn't mean it is a reasonable expectation.
I expect most people to waste something in pursuit of their desires or their search for happiness, whether that be money, time, friends, family, or other opportunities. Wasting any of those things could be considered overkill if you don't agree with what the person is seeking.
I may not agree with how this family is spending their money, but I do know that happiness is different things to different people and I do not expect my version of happiness to be consistent with everyone else's.
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
quote:Originally posted by Teshi:
Um, about the driving... Having a driving licence is a legitimate thing for a potential actress to have on a resume.
This is true, especially for actors who haven't yet had their "big break." Most of the time actors will put their extraneous skills in that "Special Skills" section, including some things that might not seem relevant to acting at first glance. Even working professional actors do it, like this guy, for example.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by camus: I may not agree with how this family is spending their money, but I do know that happiness is different things to different people and I do not expect my version of happiness to be consistent with everyone else's.
The acceptance police making their rounds again...
This is pretty cheap I'll admit, but what was Hitler's idea of hapiness, and how can we fault him for that? Maybe because his idea of happiness weighed far too heavily on the world and society, just as this girl's "dream" does. I mean that in the loosest possible sense, because while this girl isn't out to harm society, people like her do ruin things for rest of us.
Posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan (Member # 5626) on :
Godwin's Law in 81 posts. Good job, Orincoro.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Thank's to wikipedia, I get the reference.
I don't subscribe to internet forum weekly, sorry, I guess I'm just not current on the "rules" regarding saying the name "Hitler." After all he's hardly a relevent historical figure to reference. Shame on me. Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
quote:Maybe because his idea of happiness weighed far too heavily on the world and society, just as this girl's "dream" does. I mean that in the loosest possible sense, because while this girl isn't out to harm society, people like her do ruin things for rest of us.
While her motives may be misplaced, her dreams seem rather harmless to me. I can think of a few worse things to become than a famous entertainer.
I'm curious, though, about how people like her "ruin things for the rest of us." Would you care to elaborate on that point? My opinion, or more accurately, my indifference might change if I believed there was something important that I was overlooking.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Well if I completely overlook the degredation that our brains would suffer just by enduring her music, there is the small matter of the example this all sets.
Her parents are buying her this dream, and it tells her, and everybody else just as emphatically as Paris Hilton does every night on the E channel, that money is really all that matters. Hey, you don't even have to be particularly attractive!
As Douglas Adams once wrote, there are zero-sum media, and non-zero sum media. Despite the ubiquity of the internet, entertainment and music continue to be a zero sum media. This means that if this girl's dream can be had at a price which can be written in dollars instead of hard work, or talent, then there will be another talented and inspired performer who doesn't get that part, doesn't get that contract, and doesn't become part of the equation.
If you look at it this way, the entertainment "industry" may be loading itself rather top-heavy with these useless celebrity debutantes. Eventually, probably sooner rather than later, people are going to stop buying it. Period. I don't know, I think she just makes human beings look bad, as a group.
[ April 29, 2006, 11:00 PM: Message edited by: Orincoro ]
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
I think you had a 'non' in that where you didn't mean to, which rather spoiled your point. Which, in any case, I don't think is accurate, because studio time and media attention can be bought, market share can't. So while the game may be zero-sum, it can't be subverted in the way you suggest, and therefore there is no talented singer losing out.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
If you don't think the integrity of the entertainment industry is questionable, than you are more credulous a person than I will ever be.
Market share can in effect, be bought. Isn't that why a standard teen-age movie spends its budget over again on advertising alone? Certainly the success of the film has alot to do with that.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
There's only so much radio time, so much shelf space in stores, so many ads in magazines, and so many possibilities for promotion.
Market share can be bought by making some acts so ubiquitous that other acts never get the exposure that they need to succeed.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Precisely. And if you think this isn't exactly what industries try to do.... remember that we have anti-trust laws for a reason, because companies have a way of doing this whether they mean to be evil or not.
The people aren't going to rebel against a product which is inferior, if you only provide the people with inferior choices. Things do run in cycles that way though; I think right now we may be at a creative ebb in our culture.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
I'm sure the entertainment industry wishes it had that kind of control, yes. But in fact, there isn't an actual monopoly.
Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
quote:Things do run in cycles that way though; I think right now we may be at a creative ebb in our culture.
I don't think this is true. If anything, at least in the music industry, we are in a high period for creativity. Certainly much better than the years in the recent past during which boy bands and "pop" music dominated the scene.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tresopax:
quote:Things do run in cycles that way though; I think right now we may be at a creative ebb in our culture.
I don't think this is true. If anything, at least in the music industry, we are in a high period for creativity. Certainly much better than the years in the recent past during which boy bands and "pop" music dominated the scene.
Let's all keep in mind that "pop" is short for "popular." In other words, "pop" music always dominates the music industry.
-pH
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
"pop" in this context has taken on another meaning though. After all most people acknowledge a difference between Pop and Rock, even if both are popular. There is something else about the word, I think, that reflects upon the type of music it is. "Pop" music is a style which actively tries to be popular. Its still not a definite style, but there are some things which are "pop" and some things which are not, and whether any of those are "popular" is a different thing too.
I think the word has evolved through its connection in English with the verb "pop," so that there is a certain quality in pop music which is thought to be connected with something popping, or snapping, or whatever. There is also the other connection with youthfulness ie: Soda-pop culture, something has "pop," popcorn movies, a popping party, etc.
The word isn't a litteral shortening of "popular" anymore. If it was then anything alot of people liked would be "pop," So Beethoven would be pop music, as well as Classic/romantic.
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