Come on, Barbaro, you can make it through this! Poor baby...
[ May 25, 2006, 08:19 PM: Message edited by: Elizabeth ]
Posted by Kasie H (Member # 2120) on :
Posted by kwsni (Member # 1831) on :
Cessmoid injuries are fairly common in race horses, so the vets ought to be able to understand it pretty well. I hope he can recover enough to go out to stud.
Ni!
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Barbaro, be strong!
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
That just doesn't sound good.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Hey! My brother does tech support stuff for Bloodhorse.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Poor horse! I hope so much they can fix his leg.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Lots of people are comparing this race to the Ruffian match race, and that one didn't turn out well at all. Apparently just the way he was moving was similar. But medicine has improved since then.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
I know that, in all the stories, a broken leg is a done deal. So, I am hoping for some modern techniques.
My sister trains ex-race horses for riding/show. She will be so sad.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
It's getting better, depending on the break, they can save them. But it's still not a garuntee, and it would likely just be for a life at stud (and even that could be hard, ask kwsni for more).
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
TMI, TMI!
Posted by katdog42 (Member # 4773) on :
When I was a kid, 4, 5, 6...something like that... my mom called me into the house from playing outside. Being Kentuckians we always watched the Derby together, but the other races, she usually let pass on their own. This time, the derby winner won the Preakness. She called me in, explained the Triple Crown and got me all excited about how this one might be the horse. Well, it didn't win the Belmont. In fact, in my life time, no horse has ever taken the Triple Crown. I thought that this horse just might be it. I guess it is not to be. I'll have to hold out hope for another great horse next year.
Good luck Barbaro
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
So many times in my lifetime (i'm 20) we've thought this might be the horse to win the crown, and it never happens. The last living winner died in 02 (I think) and this is the only time since the first crown winner 1919(?) that there hasn't been a living crown winner.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Ah, I remember MY family following Preakness, too. For years (like five or six running) my sister picked the Derby winner. Then we moved away from Kentucky and the races didn't have much local coverage where we lived, so my sister kind of lost track. She never picked until she watched them being brought out for the race.
Poor horsie. Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
He's probably going into surgery about now. Hopefully they'll be able to stabilize him once he gets out though. What happened with Ruffian (a mare who broke a leg in a match race in the late 70s) was coming out of anesthesia thought she was racing and started moving her legs, before they were cast.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Oh, that's so sad! I know that my cats when they come out of anaesthesia will lurch around and try to jump and stuff. I have to keep them in their carriers to protect them from getting hurt. Their carriers have pillows on the floor of the carrier. Even so, they sometimes cram their faces into the metal grid of the door, and I'm like "ouch, watch your eye!" but if I move them back, then they lurch forward again, I guess trying to get out. It's scary.
I can't imagine how it would be to try to control a horse in that situation. It amazes me that horses are so tame under normal circumstances. If you had a 1200 lb cat, I can guarantee that it would not stand still and let you ride it and curry it and pick stones out of its paws. Horses have a gentle nobility that is awesome to be around.
Has there been any more word about Barbaro?
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Breyerchic, did you maybe paste the wrong url into your link? All I see on that page are horse figurines?
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Ooops, I'll fix it, didn't paste the right thing.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Thanks! Wow, it sounds very serious. I hope they can save him.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
If you click on that link again you can see more updates. His surgery started about 1 and was not finished at 6, but close. They didn't say anything about condition.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Oh, wow. I can't imagine he'd race again, not with a pinned joint. It would have to affect speed and handling, I'd think.
Poor guy. You can do it, Barbaro!
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
I don't think anyone thinks he will race again. They're just trying to save his life. Apparantly a 3 legged horse can't live, for some reason.
Posted by kwsni (Member # 1831) on :
Ct: They may not be able to put him out to stud, either, if the joint won't hold. He would have to support a full half of his weight on that leg many times a day for five or six months out of the year, every year. Stallions may not work for half the year, but they make up for it the other half. If you could train him to collect semen from the ground, he might be ok, but of course thoroughbreds don't do that kind of thing. It's too bad, there's obviously some pretty good genetics there.
Tatiana: They just cannot support their own weight for very long. Missing a leg, especially a hind leg, puts so much strain on the other joints that they break down really rapidly. These are essentially the joints in your toes, remember, they're very fragile.
Ni!
[ May 22, 2006, 02:08 AM: Message edited by: kwsni ]
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
I think I remember a statistic that horses have the thinnest legs to support their body weight.
Ni, I really don't know much about the tbred industry or who the owner is, but couldn't he be used in sport horse or appendix qh breeding if they can train him to colllect semen from the ground? I mean I know of an andalusian and a fresian that have can do it, so I'm just wondering if there would be a use for him, though after I typed this I realized, he's a derby winner he'd probably if healthy only stand to TBs.
Posted by kwsni (Member # 1831) on :
I don't know much about sport horse breeding, but i think thoroughbreds are the only ones that don't allow AI. He could definitely stand as an appendix QH. It would be a shame, though. And the owners would be out a TON of money. Quarter Horse stud fees don't even compare to Tbred ones, and as I understand it owners don't break even on a horse till he's out to stud for a while.
Ni!
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
I thought of that once I started typing. I think I remember hearing that some other breed didn't do AI but I think it was like Halflingers. No I don't think anything's stud fees compare to throughbreds, I forget some of the ones I've heard but they were much higher than anything for other breeds.
Posted by kwsni (Member # 1831) on :
It says in one of those articles that he's up and eating. Depending on how stoic he is about pain, that still may not be a good sign, though having them eating is always good.
Ni!
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Yeah, that can be positive, or it can be a stubborn stoic horse (like my dog who wouldn't whimper for the vet last week).
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Barbaro is lucky he is a stallion, because if they had already gelded him, there is no way they would have gone to these extremes to try to save him. But I am very glad they are trying. The whole race just made me cry once he got injured.
The hard part is yet to come, now that they've done the surgery they have to keep him sedated enough to not aggravate it. Unlike a human, you can't just tell a horse "stay in bed and keep off of it for six weeks"
FG
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Exactly.
Posted by Jay (Member # 5786) on :
Can't they put some kind of cast or sling? Maybe a big support thing on a wheel that would immobilize yet holds his weight. Still let him get around, but keeps him off the bad leg.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
The last article I read said he has a cast and they'll be doing another surgery in a week to switch casts. Till then he's in a recovery stall.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Will you horse people please define the acronyms and terminology you are using?
AI = artificial insemination? TB = thoroughbred? stand to = breed with? appendix qh = appendix quarterhorse? = what does that mean? train him to collect semen from the ground = train him to allow a human trainer to collect his semen instead of actually breeding with a mare?
Are my guesses even close?
Aren't derby runners always stallions? Why would they geld one and lose that potential huge money source?
Sounds like he's doing about as well as he possibly could with those injuries. Will the fact that his leg broke be counted against him genetically, and lower his stud fees a lot (assuming he survives)?
Posted by kwsni (Member # 1831) on :
Sorry, I forget that every industry has it's own abreviations. You've got AI and TB right. Stand to stud means to basically allow other people to pay to breed to your horse.
Quarter horses are a fairly young breed, so young that the stud book is still open, that means that a horse that isn't registered as a quarter horse can have offspring that can be. An appendix quarter horse is a stallion or mare that the AQHA (american quarter horse association) has approved. So you can breed that horse to a quarter horse, and register those offspring as appendix quarter horses. If you breed those offspring to a quarter horse, or another appendix, you can register those offspring as full quarter horses. At least, I think. A bunch of quarter horse people think they ought to close the stud book, that there's enough breeding stock already, without bringing more in. I think there's a lot of horses, but they may be lacking in the quality of bloodline department. There's still a lot of crap being bred to crap in the quarter horse world.
A thoroughbred can not be registered that was conceived through artificial insemination, nor can they be born out of a mare that is not their genetic mother, through embryo transfer. When you're collecting semen for Artificial Insemination, you do it one of three ways.
One, You have the stallion mount a mare in heat, but don't let him penetrate, and divert him into an artificial vagina that collects the semen. A few people do this, but you need at lest three people, one to hold the mare, one to hold the stallion, and one to hold the AV. It also introduces another horse into the equation, which always makes things more complicated.
Two, You have a mare in heat right there, let him smell her, touch her, whatever he needs to do, but then he's trained to mount a dummy, and he's still diverted into an AV so the semen can be collected. Some dummies even have a system with an AV in them, but they're a pain to work with. This method is fairly common, because it's safer for everyone involved, and takes less people to do it this way.
Three, you let the stallion smell and touch the mare, and then when he becomes aroused, you pull him away and manipulate the AV so that he doesn't have to mount anything. This is safer yet, since you don't have 1200 pounds of horny stallion hurtling at you, but some stallions just can't get past the instinct to mount. This method is helpful on older stallions, since thier hind ankles and hocks get arthritic.
Derby runners are always colts. A colt is a male horse under the age of about four. Whether an owner decides to geld a colt or not is usually because of medical reasons or temprament. If he's dangerous in the barn or in hand, but runs like the wind, then you might geld him. Or if one or both of his testicles didn't drop, and he has to have surgery to remove them.You want to get some of the money you paid for stud fees, feed, board, and training and vet bills back, even if you don't break even.
Note that his is mostly only true in thoroughbreds. Most other breeds geld colts sometime before thier first birthday, unless you have an exceptional colt. Some breeds even have a set of rules and approvals that have to be met before you can stand a stallion at stud.
Whether his broken leg will count against him genetically, that depends. The thoroughbred people have a lot of the bloodline stuff worked out to a science, but horse breeding is tricky stuff. It's still mostly art, instinct and know-how. There's just too many variables to account for. If somebody somehow finds a flaw on an x-ray somewhere, and it can be linked to something genetic, then sure, his bookings(the number of mares he breeds a season) will go down. The racing industry is fickle too, his bloodlines could go out of fashion, and no one will to want to breed to him because no one is racing that kind of horse. But I imagine that if the joint can stand up to it, he'll have plenty of mares to breed to.
Ni!
[ May 22, 2006, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: kwsni ]
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
quote:Derby runners are always colts.
This isn't always the case - a filly (young female horse) can run in the Derby as well, although it doesn't happen very often because, as I understand it, not many fillies can really compete against the kind of colts that are entered in a race of that caliber. Or at least, not well enough to make the high entrance fees worth the investment. Historically, only 38 fillies have run in the Derby, and only 3 fillies have won it - Regret in 1915, Genuine Risk in 1980, and Winning Colors in 1988.
From what I've heard, a generally accepted belief is that colts and stallions make better racehorses than fillies/mares/geldings because the testosterone results in bigger, faster, more aggressive/competitive horses. I don't know if this belief is really as prevalent as I've heard, or how much it's backed up by scientific fact. Horses keep growing until they're about 5 years old, so it sort of makes sense that a colt is more likely to win over a gelding.
However, there have been 8 geldings that won the Derby as well, the most recent being Funny Cide in 2003. But being a colt doesn't automatically lead to a racehorse becoming a viable stud - Cigar, who tied Citation's record of 16 wins in a row and was Horse of the Year in 1995, turned out to be sterile after they retired him to stud.
And I didn't realize that AI isn't allowed for racehorses, but it makes sense now that I think about it. Thoroughbred racing is a very traditional sport, so it doesn't surprise me that they do things the old-fashioned way. Plus it probably helps keep the playing field a bit more level.
Here's another article on how Barbaro's doing. Sorry, I know it's on Fox, but it has a picture of his post-surgery xray, and it seems pretty horse newbie-friendly. Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
OK, we all know what the intitials TMI mean, right?
(kidding-sort of-interested but grossed out, simultaneously)
Posted by kwsni (Member # 1831) on :
Sorry, Liz. No more gross stuff.
Nell,i forgot that fillies could run it. they just..don't. The Tbred people also think that AI can lead to one horse becoming dominant in the breed. And I can see how that can happen. You can only breed one mare per mount with natural cover, but you can breed many (up to six or seven!) mares with AI, because the semen can be diluted. You can also chill or freeze it and send it all over the country or the world. The english Tbred people wouldn't like having an american horse take over thier bloodlines, and the americans wouldn't like a Japanese horse take over over here.
*Note to Pop, if he's reading: I dunno where your comfort level is, here, but if you want me to make anything less, ah, explicit, let me know.*
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
AI has caused a few Arab stallions to become dominate in the breed, but in the case I'm thinking of, it wasn't a bad thing.
Posted by Tstorm (Member # 1871) on :
I guess its TMI if you've never been around that stuff. Personally, I'm not squicked by it. Heck, a couple of weeks ago, my Dad and I saw some cow-on-cow action in a field. Udderly disgusting, some people might think. We thought it was slightly humorous, to say the least. Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Well, the TMI is my fault, I guess, sorry. I wanted to understand what they were saying. So I had to get them to explain all their technical jargon and euphemisms that sounded nicer.
So Barbaro retires from racing and becomes a licensed sex worker.
I think it's sort of funny that if thoroughbred breeders allowed AI, then they know that giving breeders what they want (the ability to easily breed their mares with any stallion from anywhere in the world) would result in worse genes overall.
I wonder what's going to happen when humans can manipulate their own genes to a large extent? You know that the mass of people won't resist the urge to fiddle. But people are much less smart when it comes to choosing good genes than 3 billion years of evolution. Will that result in splinter lines with little genetic diversity, who are therefore vulnerable to diseases or changing conditions? Or will it be the only thing that saves us? It will be interesting to see. Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Tatiana,If you're still interested in how this stuff works, I can blather on all day about it. Email's in the profile.
Ni!
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Oh, please, I was just kidding, really! Don't let my being squicked out about horse sperm stimy the discussion!
Posted by Kristen (Member # 9200) on :
I have a question which is probably dumb:
Didn't all the horses descend from one Arabian stallion? Or a few Arabian horses?
Wouldn't that have led to a lot of icky genetic problems due to lack of genetic diversity? Does that happen often?
EDIT: All the thoroughbred horses, I mean.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Ok, we're going back to stuff Sarah memorized in 4th grade, it might be a bit off, I'll research it later.
It was three Stallions, The Godolphin Arabian, The Byrley Turk, and one other, plus a bunch of mares, I believe each of those three stallions had several sons that became founders of the breed. Also the breed had an open studbook for quite a while. So while it was founded by a small pool, that was several hundred years ago and there are now many more bloodlines. here's a link that talks about the founding sires
A horse email list I'm on has been discussing the Barbarro incident and someone suggested adding more Arabian blood to the breed for a while because arabians are known for having denser bones, and were the original foundation.
I really don't know much about thoroughbreds so I'm not going to talk about their genetic problems.
In the 1960s a young studcolt took the Quarter Horse world by storm, he was amazing and different and exactly what everyone wanted. So everyone bred to him, lots and lots of babies (though I believe all live cover), and then lots of grand babies, many of whom had parents who both had him for a father. Somehow this horse had a disease that hadn't popped up in any breeds before. It was recessive and thus only really affected horses with two genes for it. The horse was Impressive, and the disease was HYPP (Hyperkalemic Periodic Paralysis). HYPP site
Kristen, that wasn't a dumb question, and I didn't really answer it, but I hope this helps and I'm sure Kwsni has something educated to add Posted by kwsni (Member # 1831) on :
Only that the other horse that thoroughbreds decended from was the Darley Arabian. I'm much more interested in making horsey babies than I am in learning where mom and dad came from.
Ni!
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
The word was just escaping my mind. I thought it was possible you might have an oppinion on the idea of tbreds being inbred to an extreme.
Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
Just send it to the glue factory already!
j/k
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
quote:Originally posted by kwsni: Tatiana,If you're still interested in how this stuff works, I can blather on all day about it. Email's in the profile.
Ni!
I'm very interested! I love all animals, and I've only been around horses a little bit. I think they're awesome. I brought a bag of baby carrots to my niece Mary's barn once, and she and I went up and down the rows of stalls giving out treats. It's neat how they love carrots so much! You'd think we had brought something delicious or something. Mary taught me a little about how to bathe and groom them, and I was impressed with her horse's personality. So smart but also so gentle and cooperative.
The mammal species I am most familiar with is cats, and I can't emphasize enough that a 1200 lb cat that you strapped a saddle to the back of and tried to ride would be carrying you around right away, for sure, only it would be internally and only for as long as it took to digest you. Posted by kwsni (Member # 1831) on :
Breyer, I don't know enough about the bloodlines to really say. My education is mostly in quarter horses and arabs, because those are the two breeds MSU has farms of.
Tatiana, ask away!
Ni!
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
ok, yeah thats more what I know about too, at least in bloodlines.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
I don't really know enough to know what to ask. I'm mostly interested in horses as people, I guess. What are their personalities like? Do they form close bonds to their humans? A cat when it adopts you is taking you for its mother. You are about the right size and your hand stroking is like a cat mother's tongue licking her kitten. We naturally seem to fit each other because they take the role of our children and we take the role of their parents.
Is something like that going on with a horse? What are we to them? We aren't the right size to be their parents. What is it that they feel for us? Are we taking the position of the dominant stallion in their herd or what?
Also, please tell me whatever you find interesting about horses. I don't know enough to know what to ask. I'm interested in anything you find interesting.
Posted by kwsni (Member # 1831) on :
Horses are herd animals, and they're prey animals. I learned that if you keep these two statements in your mind at all times, you can understand and predict anything a horse is going to do. I have days when I can follow this, and be dominant, and still leave the barn feeling like I had a really good connection with a horse. Other days, I come on too strong and scare them, or don't come on strong enough, and lose their respect. I think that's a lot of dealing with horses is, respect. You respect that they're big 1200 pound animals with sharp hooves, and they respect you like you were one.
Most people talk about being dominant, and I buy it. A horse is instinctively programmed to follow the dominant creature around, you just have to make that be you. In herd terms, that's more the lead mare, actually, than the stud. He handles outside threats, from other stallions, or predators, and threats to his harem, like bachelor colts that are old enough to start mounting his mares. Mostly the internal problems get taken care of on their own. When a new horse joins a herd, their place in the ladder is established relatively quickly.
Some horses, you can cuddle with, and play with their forelock, and kiss them on the nose, and some just won’t let you do it, in spite of all the treats and extra handfuls of grain and finding perfect places to scratch. The ones I like are big brats on the outside, they turn their butt to you when you go in the stall, they're hard to catch, they're constantly finding stuff to play with or chew on when you've got them on a leadline. But if it's just me, and them, and we don't have anything to do right then, those are the ones that will play games with you. They're also the ones that like goofy things to eat, like hot dogs and nachos. These horses I feel like I'm on even ground with. I take their crap, their mouthyness, their tendency to misbehave in little ways, but they always come through for me when I ask. And they take mine, talking, and kissing their nose, and holding onto their lip till they have to wiggle it.
Other horses I don't get along with so well, especially the ones at the bottom of the totem pole. They're too meek for me, they do what I say and don't give me any lip. And if they don't obey, it's cause they're scared or don't understand, and that's a failing on my part, not theirs. I like the overly dominant ones ok, I can throw my weight around when I have to, but I don't like it. I don't like my dominance challenged every time I do something new.
As for why I like horses so much, I don't know. I've always liked animals, and a friend got me hooked on horses in like fifth grade. The beauty is nice. I like how they can look at you and you see what they're thinking. I like making baby horses. I like making a breed better, making a faster, prettier, stronger, nicer, more athletic horse. I like the way their ears are shaped, and the soft skin on their muzzles. I like that in a well bred horse you can see veins and tendons and bone structure under the skin on their face and legs. I like the routine of a barn, feed, turnout,clean stalls, work, bring in, feed. I like the smell. I don't like the hay, especially stacking it, but that's only once a year, and I should learn to throw hay where it doesn't get down my shirt every time anyway. I like that I can stand there in the middle of a herd and have to shoo horses off because I don't want them to eat my jeans. I like that if all the cars and trains and airplanes broke down I could still get around without having to walk. I love the weird physiology, that what's so tiny in me can be so big in a horse. They walk on their finger and toe nails. How weird is that?
I guess that's more than you probably wanted, and way more stream-of-conciousness that i indended, but oh well. If you have things in here that spark your interest, fire away. This stuff’s all in my brain, and people’s eyes tend to glaze over when I talk about it too much IRL.
Ni!
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
I don't have nearly as much experience as kwsni, but here goes.
I started riding at 11, I was teeny, shorter than my current 5'0, and skinny as possible, plus I'd just had my tonsills out, so at the time still sort of weak. My instructor was a neighbor of a family friend, about 20, who in the summers taught riding at a church camp. She put me on her gelding, who was just an inch too tall to be a pony, and had a few bratty issues but was very sweet. I wasn't big enough for the saddle, he barely knew I was up there, but finally it clicked and he'd listen to my voice commands (mostly clicking) and reallize that that fly on his side was my leg.
For later lessons she put me on her ancient, very sensitive retired reining (a form of advanced riding, that involves spinning and stopping fast), horse who was missing one eye. He knew I was there, and occasionally I'd over command him.
I rode with her seriously for two years, then stopped because she was out of college and moving away. About that time I started volunteering with a riding for the handicapped program. It was lovely to see what love the horses could provide the riders, that the kids would go away happier, and at better touch with their bodies. That was mostly grunt work, cleaning stalls, grooming and tacking horses, and leading them in the arena. But I was the volunteer turned to if they needed to test a new horse, because my mom was also on staff, and I was a small enough person to ride even the ponies.
Through collecting breyers I've fallen in love with breeds, I'll sit and read breed encyclopedias for hours. Also colors, it's so fun to know what colors come in what breeds, and if you breed this mare to this stallion what color baby you can get.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
That's lovely, Breyer. I love the way horses smell as well, and the delicate part of their noses with those little veins! I also love the hay! It has been years since I have been around horses, but as a child, I would dream of having them, riding them, being Alec and racing Black along the beach...
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
That movie has been so important to my life.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
I read all the books. No movie for this old lady! I lived between Narnia and Alec's world, barely touching down into my own.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Also, where I wanted to be the most was on the island with Flame. Was that ALec, though? No, but what was the boy's name? Do you remember?
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
OOh, I am watching Barbaro on the news, and it is good news! He is lifting his foot up, and that is a good sign.
Posted by Risuena (Member # 2924) on :
Steve was the boy with Flame on a Caribbean Island. I loved those books, and they have an official website.
My favorite was always the Black Stallion's Filly, probably because I stumbled onto the books and the Kentucky Derby at around the same time, which also coincided with last Derby won by a filly.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
I've actually only read The Black Stallion and The Black Stallion Returns, but I have a bunch more my mom picked up at a garage sale. I watched the movies at so little that there was no chance of reading the books first, and they were the only live action movies that weren't so nauseating for my parents that I could sit through.
Liz, I don't know if you've seen it, and I forget what grade you teach, but you should read through this website, you might find something useful. http://www.bslp.org/ Black Stallion Literacy project.
Posted by kwsni (Member # 1831) on :
I've read all of them I think, and I like the Flame books a lot better than the Black Stallion ones.
Ni!
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
quote: Nell,i forgot that fillies could run it. they just..don't.
kwsni - Yeah, I figured you knew that. I just wanted to clarify that fillies weren't totally barred from the Triple Crown, for those who don't really follow racing. And I only follow it very casually. As in, I watch the Triple Crown every year, and that's about it.
---
I think I've read some of the Flame books, but I don't remember them. My favorite Black Stallion books were Son of the Black Stallion, The Black Stallion's Ghost, and the one about the Black's sire, Ziyadah. I think it was The Black Stallion Mystery. And of course I love the movie! I think a lot of my racing industry knowledge came from reading those and stuff like Joanna Campbell's Thoroughbred series and the Saddle Club ( ) when I was a kid. Those books are cheesy, but there's still a lot of info in them.
I'm more a former-almost-horse-person, a few steps past a wannabe. I took huntseat lessons for 4 years when I was in junior high, but then I had to stop in high school when I got too busy with other extracurriculars, plus it just got too expensive. I never showed, other than a schooling show, but I was pretty good for the level I was at, and I intend to start taking lessons again as soon as I have the time and money for it....I've been saying that for years, and it still hasn't happened yet. Someday I want to own a horse and show in jumping and/or dressage, but at my current rate, that day is a long way off.
Until I was about 10, we had my brother's old Appaloosa living with us in horsey retirement, and then a year or so after he had to be put down (he was about 30 years old and had various health ailments), my dad bought me a POA mare at the county fair. A POA is a Pony of the America, which is a pretty new breed based on crossing Appaloosas with Shetland Ponies, but they occasionally have other bloodlines scattered in too. She was an ex-trail horse, overweight, very stubborn, and not really appropriate for the inexperienced rider I was at the time (I'd just started riding a few months before we got her), so she ended up being more of a pet than a riding horse. I showed her in halter classes for 4H, and rode her occasionally, but she had an attitude about riding that I usually preferred avoiding the fight.
And for some reason, when I was about 12, my dad decided to have her bred to a local Morgan stallion, I think with the idea that I could train the foal and have a good show horse. My dad has a good amount of experience with horses, but his is more of the Texas ranch from 50 years ago type - English riding wasn't his thing. So we ended up with a cute little colt, but I didn't (and don't) know how to break a horse for riding, and my dad knew a bit but couldn't do it because of his health, so we ended up with two pet horses. We had to sell them my junior year of high school because we couldn't afford to keep them, plus I was going away to college the next year, and my dad couldn't take care of them by himself.
So I've been pretty much horseless for the past nine years. I've gone riding occasionally, but only about once every two years or so. This summer I'm going to start volunteering at a therapeutic riding stable kinda similar to what Breyerchic did. I'm really excited about it because I'll also be able to do some exercise riding, in addition to the grunt work.
Posted by Risuena (Member # 2924) on :
quote: I think a lot of my racing industry knowledge came from reading those and stuff like Joanna Campbell's Thoroughbred series and the Saddle Club ( [Blushing] ) when I was a kid. Those books are cheesy, but there's still a lot of info in them.
I'm more a former-almost-horse-person, a few steps past a wannabe.
That's a perfect description of me. As a kid I was a sucker for just about any book that involved horses.
Some of my earliest memories involve horses, since my best friend lived on a riding farm and I got lessons from her family. I'm not sure how old I was - probably around 5, but I remember my first fall - I was cantering around some poles on a black pony named Jet and most traumatizing of all, when I fell, I almost landed in horse manure. Then my friend and her family moved away, which began a pattern of a year or two at one riding stable followed by three or four years with no riding then going back to a new stable. It's amazing how many of those periods with no lessons occurred after my mom would see me take a fall...
Anyway, it's been six years since I've been regularly involved with horses and hopefully once I have the money and am not living an hour's drive from an affordable stable, I can start riding again.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
I remember I had two little boxes filled with change. In one box I saved money for my horse. In the other, for my horse's paddock.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
I loved a book called "Heads Up, Heels Down." It was old even to me!
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
When I was a teenager I read this series of horsey books. They weren't that well written, perhaps, but the main character was named Julie (like me) and her horse was named Bonny (I had a bird named Bonny) so I have have fond memories of the series anyway. Julie somehow gets this free horse and successfully races him. Or her? Anyway I've tried and tried over the years to find the series, but I can't remember enough of a title. Sound familiar to anyone?
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
It doesn't, Theca. I also remember a book called "Harlequin Hullabaloo" which was about a "paint" horse who was not accepted in the show circuit. the girl rider dyed the white spots brown and showed him, and he won, proving that a paint could win!
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
My first horse book was "Billy and Blaze and The Grey Spotted Pony" But I really wasn't that interested until 9 or ten, and started reading everything Margurite Henry had written (I think the only thing I missed was Wild Horse Annie, and that's because the library didn't have a copy). My graduation present was a trip to Chincoteague to see where Misty was set.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Oh, Misty! And Stormy, Misty's foal! So many childhood friends...
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
King Of The Wind Brighty of The Grand Cannyon San Domingo the Medicine Hat Stallion Album of Horses Misty's Twilight (that's one of her last books) Brown Sunshine Sea Star orphan of Chincoteague Justin Morgan had a Horse The White Stallions of Lippiza(that may be it, but that may not be the title)
This is all I can come up with immeadiatly, but there were more.
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
Oh, I forgot Marguerite Henry! I love her books! My mare's registered name was 'Miss T Milo,' but I nicknamed her 'Misty' after the book. Chincoteague is on my list of Places to Visit Before I Die, or hopefully in the next few years while I'm actually living on the east coast.
I also really liked The Dream Horse by Virginia Campbell Scott, even though (or maybe because?) that one leaned a bit to girly high-school romance.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Chincoteague is gorgeous. We were there in June so the shops had opened up but the festival hadn't started so it wasn't crowded. We stayed at the Mariner, which isn't very expensive and is nice enough, it didn't appear any of the hotels on the island were "nice."
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
Okay, cool. I'll make a note of that for when (if?) I get to the trip planning phase. How long were you there for?
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Two nights, but we also did Virginia Beach and Baltimore on the trip, sort of this circle thing.
Posted by Risuena (Member # 2924) on :
Despite having been born and raised in Maryland, which shares Assateague and the ponies with Virginia, I have never been to Chincoteague. I'm a bad "former-almost-horse-person, a few steps past a wannabe" from that area. *hangs head in shame*
I never read that many Margeurite Henry Books - I read Misty, King of the Wind and a couple others but that's all. I think I might have been a little too old for them when I discovered them.
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
Breyer, did 2 nights there seem long enough to you?
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Risuena, I haven't read all the Henry books either. I think I've just read all the Chincoteague ones, and King of the Wind and Brighty. Those were all that my grade school, church, and local libraries had when I was little, and by the time I discovered the joys of interlibrary loan, I'd moved on to the cheesy teen horse books. But now I know what to add to my summer reading list!
As far as not seeing Chincoteague goes...I think it's really easy to miss going places when you live right there. I grew up near Chicago, and I've never been to the Cahokia mounds or a lot of famous places in Chicago. In the first semester I spent in London, I completely missed going to the Tower of London (but I made sure I got it on the second semester two years later). And even though I moved to Long Island two years ago, I've yet to go to the Hamptons or the Bronx Zoo, among many other things.
But since you're a "former-almost-horse-person, a few steps past a wannabe" - shame! Shame upon you! Illinois has no horsey equivalent, but, uh...I've never been to the Arlington racecourse, or Belmont/Aqueduct Park here in NY. Posted by Risuena (Member # 2924) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nell Gwyn: But since you're a "former-almost-horse-person, a few steps past a wannabe" - shame! Shame upon you! Illinois has no horsey equivalent, but, uh...I've never been to the Arlington racecourse, or Belmont/Aqueduct Park here in NY.
Oh, that's another one! Chincoteague/Assateague are a long drive from where I grew up, what with the Chesapeake Bay in between and all, but I was less than 30 minutes from Baltimore, and I've never been to Pimlico! Not even to get drunk and not see the horses running in the Preakness (or other races). To make up for that, I have gone to the Washington National Horseshow and some other equestrian events in the area.
See! I'm not all bad! Right?
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
That puts you ahead of me then - I've yet to go to any horse show other than local 4H or county fair shows. I may try to get to the Hamptons Classic this fall, though. And I've been to Medieval Times twice! Does that count? Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
I've been to Arabian nationals 4 times.
I think 3 nights would have made Chincoteague better, but to see the horsie stuff it'd just take a day or so.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
I have been to the Lake Placid Horse SHow numerous times, as well as the I Love NY horse show. Both are back to back in Lake Placid.
Bruce Springsteen was in town a few years ago, since his daughter was riding.
Posted by kwsni (Member # 1831) on :
We spent a week in Chincoteague when I was a kid, and that was about long enough. Of course, we went in august, after the festival, and we didn't really do any horsey things. My mom is not a horse fan. We stayed at a hotel that looks across the channel from Chincoteauge to Assateague. I remember thinking it was nice then, I don't know what I'd think of it now.
I've been on a horsey movie kick lately, and I've been really impressed with the Black Stallion movies. Kids movies today would not be allowed to be so good. I als to watched 'The Man From Snowy River' and 'Return to Snowy River'. Hidalgo and Seabisuit don't even compare to any of those movies.
Ni!
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
It was directed by Francis Ford Copalla (and I just comitted a crime spelling it wrong, sorry I've been up two minutes).
I only saw Seabiscuit because I was writing a book report while it was in theaters, I refuse to see Hidalgo because the company billed it as true, but there is enough proof that it isn't.
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
Hidalgo was ridiculous on numerous levels. However, I did appreciate the historical setting, even if the film itself was clunky.
I loved Seabiscuit, but it can't compare to the Black Stallion movies. And when I saw it, I'd never heard of Seabiscuit the horse before, so maybe my opinion would have been different otherwise.
Dreamers was cute, but a bit cliched, and there were several times where I wondered if the director/screenwriter knew as much about racing and horses as he said he did. But it was his first film, so I guess it was pretty good in that light.
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Of course, my ideal trip to Chincoteague would be for the Pony Penning, but now that I think about it, it's probably a good idea for me to go at another time. If I'm there for Pony Penning, I'd probably fall in love with a pony and be heartbroken because I couldn't take it home with me.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
My senior year when my mom said we were going to chincoteague, before we made reservations my orchestra teacher said not to go pony penning unless you're buying a pony (she'd gone 19 and is still heartbroken)
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
In case anyone's still following this, here is an update on how Barbaro is doing now. It sounds pretty promising. Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Ah, that's so good to hear!
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Even worse.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Yeah. So sad. I was just reading about it on another site and it is sure looking like Barbaro isn't going to make it. Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Oh, dear.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
:'(
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
Updates from yesterday and today. Things are looking a bit better. It's probably too soon to get my hopes up, but I'm doing it anyway. Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
<prays for Barbero>
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
There was a vigil last night on a few horse related forums.
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
On a not-so-happy note, I found out the other day that the newest pony at the stable I volunteer at died sometime last week. He came to the stable overweight and with a pretty bad case of laminitis, but I don't think it was so bad that anyone expected him to die from it. I didn't get the details on what happened - they're keeping it quiet so the kids don't get upset - but it was rather shocking, especially since I'd sidewalked a lesson with him only last weekend. Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
I knew that he had a new break, and was undergoing more procedures last week. But I didn't realize they finally had to give up efforts. Thanks for the link, Dag.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
That was so sad!
Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
What a bummer. You sort of think - no news is good news... then when his name started popping up again I was just thinking to myself - I hope he either makes it or goes quickly.
(I don't mean that to sound callous.)
Posted by Sibyl (Member # 10079) on :
At least they probably won't let the Japanese eat him.
Posted by jlt (Member # 10088) on :
So sad, he was only 4 .
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
I was really sad when I read about this, too.
But at the same time, I'm amazed that he did so well for as long as he did after the Preakness. And from the sound of things, at least he was probably still happy till the end, rather than in a horrific agonized state as he likely would have been if they'd waited too long to put him down.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Plus it probably helps keep the playing field a bit more level.![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Blushing]](graemlins/blushing.gif)
) when I was a kid. Those books are cheesy, but there's still a lot of info in them.![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Then my friend and her family moved away, which began a pattern of a year or two at one riding stable followed by three or four years with no riding then going back to a new stable. It's amazing how many of those periods with no lessons occurred after my mom would see me take a fall...![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)