quote:

---

I was working out on my rowing machine in my basement. My dog was there in the corner. And I started having thoughts and pictures come into my mind of going over and having sex with my dog.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by pH:
...maybe you guys will learn something about OCD from a first-hand perspective, right?

---

Well, pH, I already have that first-hand perspective, but I still appreciate that you've posted this, if only for confirmation that I'm not alone. Although I'm fairly sure that I haven't been affected by my OCD as seriously as you seem to be from your description, it does get bad sometimes and mostly people - the people in my life - don't really understand. Probably because I, too, tend to be secretive about my rituals.

Anyway, thanks for posting this.
 

---

Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
((pH))

I've told you about personal things, and now I can see why you knew so well what I was talking about. Great post.
 

---

Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
 
I was moved by your post. Thanks.

I used to think I was weird because I would always converse and (more often) argue with the "not me" in my head--to the point of feeling paralyzed. I can definitely relate to obsessing about religion, sin, and going to hell. I've taken up lots and lots of small hobbies that keep me from obsessing about the big stuff, now--and finding a steady girlfriend has been wonderful.

Thanks for posting.
 

---

Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
 
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<pH>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I'm so glad you posted this, and I'm so sorry you've had to feel so badly for so long. We love you exactly as you are.

Look closely and you will find the gift hidden inside this condition. You have many gifts. They are all tied together with these things which present themselves as trials or afflictions. I think being open about it is a very good thing. I want to show this to Sasha because I think it will mean a lot to him. Thanks for telling us.

Let us know how it goes.
 

---

Posted by enochville (Member # 8815) on :
 
The following is taken from:
http://psychcentral.com/disorders/sx25t.htm

For many years, OCD was seen as a purely psychological disorder, related to a desire to control one's environment or to undo some perceived wrong action. Insight oriented psychotherapy has been singularly unsuccessful in treating this group of disorders, however. Behavior therapies have had much more success, especially those with specific small steps geared to the exact obsessions.compulsions involved in the individual case.

Behavior therapy has a lot to offer individuals with this disorder. Two common and popular techniques are systematic desensitization and flooding. Systematic desensitization techniques involve gradually exposing the client to ever-increasing anxiety-provoking stimuli. It is important to note here, though, that such a technique should not be attempted until the client has successfully learned relaxation skills and can demonstrate their use to the therapist. Exposing a patient to either of these techniques without increased coping skills can result in relapse and possible harm to the client. Relaxation techniques may include imagery, breathing skills, and muscle relaxation. It is important for the client to find a relaxation technique which works best for them, before attempting something like systematic desensitization or flooding. Flooding allows the patient to face the most anxiety-provoking situation, while using the relaxation skills learned. Systematic desensitization is the preferred technique of the two; flooding is not recommended except in rare uses. Flooding's potential harm usually outweighs its potential benefits (e.g., traumatizing the individual further).

Additional behavior and cognitive-behavioral techniques which may have some effectiveness for people who suffer from this disorder include saturation and thought-stopping. Through saturation, the client is directed to do nothing but think of one obsessional thought which they have complained about. After a period of time of concentration on this one thought (e.g., 10-15 minutes at a time) over a number of days (3-5 days), the obsession can lose some of its strength. Through thought-stopping, the individual learns how to halt obsessive thoughts through proper identification of the obsessional thoughts, and then averting it by doing an opposite, incompatible response. A common incompatible response to an obsessive thought is simply by yelling the word "Stop!" loudly. The client can be encouraged to practice this in therapy (with the clinician's help and modeling, if necessary), and then encouraged to transplant this behavior to the privacy of their home. They can also often use other incompatible stimuli, such as tweaking a rubber-band which is around their wrist whenever they have a thought. The latter technique would be more effective in public, for example.
_________________________________________________
One clever technique to systematically desensitive clients to their obsessions involved having the client record their obsessive thoughts unto a tape recorder that has the capacity to loop the recording when played back. The client would then go through sessions of listening to their obsessions for an hour. Eventually, those obsessive thoughts lost all power to evoke anxiety for the person.

Compulsions can be treated by sitting with anxiety without participating in the ritual. Example: touching the bathroom floor with hands then, without washing them going back to the therapy room and just sit staring at the unwashed hands until the anxiety level drops (and then wash them). Of course, the client needs to work up to this, by first touching the bathroom door with a glove, then several steps later, touching the toilet with bare hands, etc.
 

---

Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
 
Also, I thought they had fantastic success with treating OCD with drugs now.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
I've been on drugs for the majority of the past seven years. Most of them either didn't help or had horrible side effects. I started taking Wellbutrin again because it was the only medicine I'd taken for an extended period of time that I'd stopped because I didn't think I needed it anymore and not because it made me shake, feel like a robot, sleep all the time, not be able to focus my eyes...

I also now can take Ativan as needed, which helps because it gives me some control over when I take it and because it does not involve making me feel incredibly drowsy all the time.

As to cognitive-behavioral therapy:
At the moment, I'm still learning relaxation techniques and trying to lower my general level of anxiety. To a certain extent, however, that involves satisfying some of my anxieties. For example, I require a ridiculous amount of reassurance from my boyfriend, so my psychiatrist told me that since it was occupying my mind so much, I should just tell him about it and ask him to be more forthcoming with the "I love you."

Actually, I think one of the reasons I watch so many horror movies is to try to desensitize myself to the images. I have very bad nightmares, and I go through periods of time in which I'm afraid that I'm going to knock my teeth out or poke my eye out or drive my car off an overpass. I'm not saying I WANT to do these things, or that I'm TRYING to do these things. It's not a desire to harm myself; it's a fear that somehow, I'm going to do these things.

I've heard that they have intensive two-week programs to help people with severe OCD, but I don't know if my parents would go for that.

I do think that there are some good things that have come out of it. I've learned a lot of self-control from having to keep my rituals private. I've also realized that I seem to learn things in a more intuitive way. It's like I'm making connections between things very, very quickly. A lot of times, school has felt more like it was giving names to things I already knew. I'm not really sure how to explain it so that you would understand what I mean. It's just sort of...really strong intuition. I guess maybe it comes from unconsciously making connections between things all the time. However, it sometimes makes it difficult to teach other people because I don't know how to explain how I came to the "lightbulb moment."

I have a doctor's appointment now. I'm still working on that list.

-pH
 

---

Posted by Dante (Member # 1106) on :
 
pH, some things really can be improved by lessening their hold through talking about them. I really hope this is one. In any event, your posts here are informative and thoughtful, and I appreciate them.
 

---

Posted by Soara (Member # 6729) on :
 
ph, thank you so much for posting that. It's hard to post something so personal but after you do, you realize it's not as hard as you thought it would be. (at least I do). You seem to be very self-aware and honest to yourself and I think these things will help you greatly as you fight to overcome this. I hope you have the courage to continue with this thread.
 

---

Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
 
pH, this is really tough. I don't have any personal or familial experience with severe OCD, but it occurs to me that you are doing the right things: seeing a psychiatrist for one, and recognizing the obsessions for what they are is another.

I hope that in a few months you can look back and see real progress, and that, over time, you get to the point of control over these problems.

Anxiety disorders can be extremely debilitating and the longer a person goes without learning new, more healthy patterns, the more engrained and unstoppable they become.

If your parents won't go for the more intensive programs, do you have the option of doing the program on your own?
 

---

Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
I re-read an interesting book lately. Douglas Adams' little known travel novel "Last Chance to See." In one chaper he relates how humans might have evolved from a species of tree dwelling mammals with the abiltiy to fly.

The significance is that modern human brains still contain some vestige of the flying instinct; we believe we are capable of, or in need of things which we cannot do. Reading this, I found it incredibly revealing of my own psyche: the compulsion I have always had to jump from a high ledge, or to fling something from it unnexpectedly. There is still something in the human brain which tells us we are capable of doing things we cannot do; and ther there are things in our brains which tell us we must do things we don't need to do in modern society. I find this endlessly fascinating and revealing. We are part of evolution, and we are not perfect or complete as people.
 

---

Posted by enochville (Member # 8815) on :
 
pH said: "Actually, I think one of the reasons I watch so many horror movies is to try to desensitize myself to the images."

I'd recommend talking to your psychiatrist about this. Desensitization does work, but it has to be done right to work. If it is not done right, it may simply re-traumitize you and reinforce your fears and make your nightmares more frequent. Whether flooding is used or a "gradual working up to more anxiety provoking stimuli" is used, one very important key is that one is exposed to the stimulus long enough to let the body come back to equilibrium. I don't know that horror films are constructed right to give you the kind of exposure that will help. So, just talk with your doctor about it.

Also telling him or her about it can be informative. The fact that you willingly seek out these movies and your brain is often in this anxious state leads me to wonder if anxiety is somehow reinforcing for you (in other words I wonder if you are getting some kind of pay off for being anxious). If I were your psychologist I would like to explore that. Because if we could detect how anxiety is reinforcing, we might be able to find a similar reinforcer that could reduce your brain's need for anxiety without causing all the life interupting problems.

But, then again, maybe there is nothing to that. Well, your doctor would like to know if he does not already. And be sure to ask him or her whether he or she would be comfortable leading you through systematic desensitization as a treatment for OCD. Although it is very effective, some mental health professionals use it and others don't.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
I've been working on the list! It's hard to remember everything, since I don't think about a lot of these things unless I haven't done them.

It's in a spreadsheet. Is there a way for me to upload it somewhere?

As for the intensive programs, they're incredibly expensive. It would probably run over $10,000.

What I did end up doing was talking to my therapist, who has referred me to another therapist. So now I have two (within the same institute), and they specialize in different things and have different styles. Also, the institute sometimes has workshops, so I might do one of those. Until then, I'll just get a double dose of therapy.

-pH
 

---

Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
 
Bless you, pH. And good luck ^^. Optimism and will power -- the way to go!
 

---

Posted by human_2.0 (Member # 6006) on :
 
((pH))

I've considered you such a cool person I never would have imagined you're having such a hard time.

I certainly don't have 1st hand experience with OCD and I certainly am not qualified to help because my only knowledge is my own experience and a little reading and having a mom who had done a bunch of reading. So I hope you just take my opinions with a grain of salt and I hope no one tells me off for giving non-professional advice.

Anyway, I know exactly what the Not-Me is. The book "I'm Ok, You're Ok" explains how we work. It goes like this:

There are different "Me's" in each of us and each has different cares and needs. One wants to play (the "Child" in us). One wants to obey rules (the "Parent" in us). The third "Me" is the mediator between the two (the "Adult" in us).

Most people have a weak mediator and so most people are dominated by one or the other and that leads to the other being neglected. The solution is to strengthen the mediator. The best way to do that is to begin to recognise that your "ok" and not really abnormal to have conflicting wants and needs.

And the same goes for other people. It is pretty easy to understand people's quirks when you realize it is their undisciplined/playful "Child" talking or their critical/dominering "Parent" and not their reasonable "Adult". All 3 are ok. But you have to understand where each is coming from and if you want to be playful and someone else is being critical, it will lead to a fight. Your Adult can see this happen and stop your Child from fighting with the other person. Your Child we be disappointed, but you wont say anything that will destroy your relationship with the other person.

As a kid, most of your peers were dominated by their Child and you were dominated by your Parent so that explains why they didn't like you. I guess you overcame that somewhat because I got the feeling you have a very active Child because of things you've posted here (you've sounded like a very fun person).

Anyway, I was very negative about reading the book because I didn't want to read any physcobabble. But the first chapter introduced the whole topic in such a way that I was hooked. Some doctor did awake brain experiments on some people and discovered that by touching various parts of the brain, he could induce memories so real, the patients relived the whole memory detail for detail, even smells.

Based on the info from that, some people concluded the brain is a big video recorder and that data never really goes away. We may forget it on the surface, but it is all there. And the "Parent" and "Child" in each of us relies on that recorder to decide how to behave. This is why we often make decisions we don't understand.

The problem is, our worlds' change, but most of us quit recording when we grow up, so as adults we never update our data. So we make decisions based on outdated recordings. The best example is the elephant. As a baby, you can tie an elephant up and it will try to escape and eventually give up trying to get away. For the rest of its life, it will never try to get away again, even when it grows up to be so big a simple step would be freedom.

The "Adult" in us is what updates our data, and it is a hard process that involves being able to identify what we learned as a child that led us to come to our conclusions.

--

Now my story. I read the book because I was having serious trouble. When I was growing up my father was very abusive. He turned red and foamed at the mouth when he yelled and could go for hours and he hit us often enough.

Well, as I got older I was turning into him. Not the same ways, but enough. So I went looking for help and I remember my mom (my mom was nothing like him) having that book so I bought it. Reading that book was only the part of the solution. I still see my dad regularly in an attempt to "update" my data.

He is aging. He can't hit me. Nor can he yell at me. I've simply learned how to manipulate him so that he wont do those things. But until very recently he could still sigh and give dramatic silent pauses that sent chills down my spine.

His inner soul is starting to finally show on his face as well. So if his community still wants to embrace him, at least I know they know what he is. But I won't force them to accept it. In fact, I don't tell this to anyone outside my immediate family. I don't want anyone to be able to connect this story with who I really am bad enough that I almost set up an alternate identity to post this. But you didn't, and I'm a risk taker, so I wont.

Anyway, it is working. I'm finally able to be in his presense and not go crazy. I've often wanted to drive into oncoming traffic after being with him. I have complete control over myself and never would, but the desire to do it has been very strong. But now I no longer feel these super self destructive feelings and I'm getting in control of the smaller versions as well. In fact, I'm able to be "Adult" in his presense and actually *watch* him do his thing and respond non-emotionally (not hurt, not attack-mode, etc). The effect being that I can see how he has made me feel and after I leave him I can do things that make me feel better.

Anyway, I highly recommend the book just simply because it is like the missing-manual for being a human. I hope something I've said helps! Good luck!
 

---

Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
 
The most I have ever seen in terms of OCD is a person who kisses his Tzitzit for every word in the Shema Yisrael rituals; he also (when singing one of the liturgical songs after the meal) goes over every note of the tune, whether there is a syllable appointed to it. That is, if he loses the place he will recite quickly the remaining words (religiously understandable) and the rest of the tune (unusual).

My point being, I know a bit about OCD and how it affects people - but I have never come in contact with a story such as yours. Thank you most keenly for sharing; it is a good, moral lesson in how to nit judge people.
 

---

Posted by Stan the man (Member # 6249) on :
 
(((PH)))

Hang in there.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
With all the religion-oriented discussions popping up around here, now might be a good time to spell out my real problem with Southern Baptists. I know a couple of people here have pointed out that I seem to have a lot of hostility. I do. I also have a lot of hostility toward my first two psychiatrists.

Here is a huge part of where my anger comes from.

pH: I'm scared to death. I think the devil is getting into my head.
Church: DEMONS ARE GETTING INTO YOUR HEAD! YOU WERE NOT SAVED "RIGHT." IF YOU WERE SAVED "RIGHT," DEMONS WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO GET INTO YOUR HEAD! REPENT! SAVE YOUR SOUL! FIND THE OBJECTS IN YOUR HOUSE WITH DEMONIC SPIRITS IN THEM AND EITHER BURN OR BURY THEM!
pH: *starts to think there are demonic spirits in EVERYTHING, including her teddy bear. Is unable to burn or bury anything. Feels sorry for the inanimate objects and doesn't want them to feel abandon them. Also feels incredibly guilty and damned to hell for not doing what the church said*

pH: Doctor, the church says they think I have demons in my head.
Psychiatrist #1: Well, there definitely is a dark spiritual energy around you when you freeze up. It wouldn't surprise me.

pH: Doctor, I think I'm crazy.
Psychiatrist #2: You're crazy.
Actually, this declaration of my insanity was from a combination of the doctor and a nurse. The doctor gave me a scary diagnosis, and the nurse said something along the lines of, "That's true craziness."

But this isn't really about my first two psychiatrists and how much I would sometimes like to kick them in the junk. This is about the Southern Baptist church I went to when I was younger.

It was incredibly damaging to me to have my fears essentially realized by my youth pastor and other respected members of the church. On top of that, they had put a fear of hell in me so great that it took me six years to be able to attend a worship service again, and that was a Quaker meeting. In all honesty, I don't think I'll ever be able to go back there, partly because I'd probably be overwhelmingly tempted to find my old youth pastor and tell him that thanks to his "ministry," I spent a decade of my life (10-20) in the seventh level of hell. I lived in an incredibly heightened state of shame and fear. When I say "incredibly heightened," I mean much more so than that in which I live right now, but it's worth pointing out that my shame and fear levels are generally extremely high to begin with. I live in constant, unwavering fear of certain things: pregnancy, my boyfriend breaking up with me, bodily harm, disease, failure, saying the wrong thing, doing the wrong thing...

To be honest, I'm also terrified of others trying to heap too much guilt on me because I don't know if there will be a breaking point after which I go back to the way I was. That's the thing. I don't need OTHER PEOPLE to make me feel guilty. I have quite an overactive conscience to begin with. I have trouble taking out the trash because I don't want the garbage to feel abandoned. Garbage bags will pile up at the door until my boyfriend comes over and takes them down to the dumpster because I can rarely bring myself to do it. Unfortunately, the Christian perspective I was always taught is that if one feels guilty about something, it is clearly wrong. But I feel guilty about EVERYTHING. It makes no logical sense that God would be angry with me for taking out the trash, so obviously that standard doesn't work for everyone.

I really don't know what it is that made me less afraid of hell. It's a very recent development. Within the last year, something just snapped inside me. It's not that I'm rejecting religion or spirituality. In all honesty, I think I'm going to go back to one of those Quaker meetings soon. It's as if I've somehow realized that these things truly do come from inside my mind. That's how long it took me to actually realize that this is a brain issue and not a demon in my head. From age ten to age twenty. I firmly believe that a lot of anguish could have been avoided if people had just stopped reinforcing my fears.

-pH
 

---

Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
 
I'm glad you're doing better than before pH. It's sad when religion is responsible for damaging people, as it seems was the case for you. Superstition should not take the place of modern science and medicine when those are necessary.

We're not in the stone age here. You don't sacrifice a goat to the sun god when your crops fail. Nobody should tell a troubled youth to burn her belongings, rather than seek reputable medical help. Don't let anyone make things harder for you.

I hope you continue to improve. It sounds like you're much more aware of your difficulties, and how you might go about dealing with them, rather than be trapped into making them worse.
 

---

Posted by Elmer's Glue (Member # 9313) on :
 
This makes me feel a little better about my not nearly as bad OCD.
 

---

Posted by Nathan2006 (Member # 9387) on :
 
I really sympethize (not empethize, because I don't have OCD) My mother has DID: Pretty much, mutiple personality disorder... Only she is aware of the changes, and can see her seperate personalities take over... it's like the midpoint before ending up like Sybil.

Believe me, we've heard about how it's demons in her head, or that she's 'playacting' and that's it's all just in her head.

And the sympethetic churches are convinced that cognitive therapy is the only way.

She was sexually molested by at least two people, told her mother who didn't believe her, and hasn't remembered all of this until the last couple of years. Since then she's seen a therapist, and is working on it. Her therapy appears far from over, allthough she hasn't had to go to a mental institution for a while.

Anyway, I find the church very unwilling to accept mentally ill people... They don't realize how extremely normal all of these people are. They aren't violent, they are ill!

Religion, regardless of what type, will always have a profound effect on people. I've always respected the firm resolute and umcompromising nature of Southern Baptists (in general) as much as I hate the subborness and close-mindedness.

Actually, there's been a patern emerging in people suffering from DID: A lot of patients have been raised in devil worship... Not wicca, but devil worship, with sexual rituals and the whole deal.

And some people, I'm sure, are offended that I would compare some churches with devil worship, but, other than I do believe the churches are getting into heaven, I don't see much of a difference.

Anyway, I want you to know that If you really love God, and believe in him, than you are under no obligation to read your Bible or go to church. For me, personally, they have helped... But given your circumstances, I absolutely understand why these things would pose problems, rather than help.

Anyway, I really believe that it was really brave of you to post. And, although I'm sure that you know this, you are not going to hell for having a mental illness that makes it difficult to be around churches and Bibles... I believe that God and the Bible are completely seperate than church. And I believe that you can have a compeltely functional relationship with God without having to put up with the... human side of Christianity. And I hope that you will get better. :~)
 

---

Posted by Evie3217 (Member # 5426) on :
 
Wow, pH, I am so moved by your story. I've always thought that you seemed like a really cool person, but now, after seeing what you've gone through, I admire you even more. If you need anyone to talk to, I've been told that I'm a good listener.

Hang in there. It looks like you're (finally) getting the help you need.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
So I guess I should've expected this sort of thing.

First of all, I've gotten some kind of kidney infection, so I'm too tired to clean or decorate, which is how I usually deal with big anxiety. Television or books don't work because for some reason they don't distract my brain enough for me to let go of whatever it is until I can talk to someone about it.

See, I get ridiculously anxious about things that I probably shouldn't. I become suspicious of people over little things. And part of that also comes from my past; when you've been emotionally (and physically, at one point) abused by someone who "loved" you, you get a little gun shy, especially when it comes to close friends and boyfriends.

So I was too sick to do anything on a large scale to try to deflect these feelings, and I decided to try to talk to one of my good friends about it. Then the subject of this trip my boyfriend and I are taking came up, and I told her that it annoyed me that he'd led me to believe for a month that we were going to Europe, when he knew that we couldn't. She, for some reason, took this as me being selfish. She said that we haven't been together that long, so even the suggestion that he might take me on a trip should be enough to satisfy me. Well, there are two things wrong with this: first of all, we had picked dates for the trip and had started to plan it out. Secondly, he isn't taking me on a trip. He isn't paying for me. We are taking a trip together, and we're splitting the cost. But she didn't seem to understand that.

So it turned into a crazy fight, and I asked her what she really thought of me, and she told me that she thought I was a nutjob and that all I ever do is blow things out of proportion, that I sabotage all my good relationships, that I don't value honesty (because she was just being "honest" and a "good friend" in criticizing me in whatI felt was an overly harsh manner). The girl's minoring in psychology, so she thinks she's qualified to analyze people's lives, even though we haven't seen each other in three years and pretty much solely converse through the Internet nowadays. Oh, and sometimes I just harp on things so much that it gets annoying.

Well, great. I trusted her enough to tell her these things that make me feel so ashamed. I mean, I hate myself for how worked up I get. I get so upset that I can't even control my own mind. I just feel that if she knows so much about psychology, she should know better than that. You know?

So anyways, I've pretty much just been a ball of anxiety and depression for the last couple of weeks. I haven't had an appetite all week, but that could just be the infection. I don't mean that my stomach feels hungry, but I don't want to eat. I mean that my stomach feels full. All the time. Even if I haven't eaten all day. And if I try to eat and I eat too much or too often, I feel sick and overfull. So I've been trying to make myself eat two meals a day consisting of really high-calorie foods because I'm kind of afraid that I'm going to slip below that 1200-a-day line.

But there is some good news: we put down the deposit on the cruise, and I bought tickets to Discovery Cove yesterday. I love dolphins. And my boyfriend has been really patient with reassuring me, although I'm always afraid he'll get sick of having the, "Are you mad?" "No." "Are you sure?" "Yes, I'm sure." "...are you sure?" "Yes, I'm sure" "Are you going to be mad later?" "No." "Why?" conversation over and over again. I don't know why, but I just feel the need to ask him questions about how he feels over and over again. Fortunately, he's patient, and he puts up with it.

Having two therapists is helping a lot, especially because they have different styles. One's a Gestalt therapist, and one's a psychiatrist who focuses on psychotherapy instead of medication, and who will let me make my own decisions regarding medicine. And I'm going to start going to group therapy next week, too. Triple therapy!

I've been really nervous about the group therapy though. I was asked to go a few weeks ago, and I keep giving excuses as to why I haven't gone. I'm just really nervous about being in that kind of environment. I don't know what I could really talk about face-to-face, in a room full of people. And what if I'm the most eccentric one there? That's how it was the last time I did anything like group therapy. It made me feel even more isolated.

I don't know. I think I'm going to try to clean, until I get worn out. And maybe I'll go to the mall or pick up some paint brushes and finish painting my cabinets. Or put together the table I bought. The only problem is finding the energy.

-pH
 

---

Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
*hug*
 

---

Posted by A Rat Named Dog (Member # 699) on :
 
Wow. Most of the members of my family have some degree or another of OCD (including me), so I understand the kind of thing you're going through ... though not the degree.

When I was a kid, I had these weird compulsions to make noises. I thought I was being subtle and quiet about them, until one my mom suddenly went, "STOP DOING THAT, YOU'RE DRIVING ME CRAZY!"

It's weird the amount of willpower that it took me to stop. After that, it turned into rolling my eyes behind my eyelids, which sometimes had to be accompanied by making a really embarrassing face. I had to force myself to stop that one, too, when other kids at school noticed.

Later on, as an adult, I had a blinking thing which looked kind of like a twitch. My wife tried to tell me it was cute, but I stopped it anyway

Obviously, from the fact that I could stop these things when I really needed to, you can tell that my OCD is pretty darn mild. The parts of it that really get to me though are the ones that actually are aligned with reality to some degree. Like when I feel obsessively guilty about something, or when I can't let go of having said or done something "wrong" socially and embarrassed myself.

The problem there is the fact that it's not some obvious fantasy or compulsion. I really do think that the things I did were wrong or embarrassing. The only problem is, no one besides me thought they were worth remembering for more than 30 seconds Still, when there's a little kernel of reality behind a compulsion, that only makes it that much harder to shake.

Anyway, obviously, after a post like pH's, my issues look downright pathetic I mostly just wanted to show that there are people here who understand, who know what it's like to deal with an unruly and sometimes cruel mind, and that you have no reason to worry about anything around us

I'm glad things are on the upslope for you, pH! Good luck!
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Just an update...

This has been a really bad week for me. I'm not sure why. I guess because I had breakfast with my abusive ex a week ago, and he tried to justify what he did...for example, he did not hit me. He grabbed me by the wrists to keep ME from hitting HIM, and I leaned forward to get in his face and accidentally hit my own lip on my hand.

Clearly, my vivid memory of being held down on the bed and pummeled in the face is incorrect.

I mean, I felt good about it at first, seeing him. Because I made him cry, and it felt really, really good to see him all weepy. But maybe it made me more prickly toward my boyfriend. I don't know.

Y'see, my boyfriend's truck is broken, so he's been borrowing his mom's car. So he can't sleep over anymore, and we don't get to have lunch together. Which means pretty much that we see each other between one and five in the morning. And at first, I could handle it. I asked him to write me notes when he left so that I could read them when I got up, and I saved them, and I would reread them whenever I got a little panicky. Because a lot of times I panic if I wake up and he isn't there, except I can't quite figure out what's wrong, and I go wandering through the house trying to figure out what's missing. But it's just been getting to me now. I'm just always afraid that he's using me.

And my friends...I don't know. I mean, I bought two tickets to Pirates last night, and no one would go with me. So I didn't go either because I didn't want to see happy people hanging out with their friends and having people who care about them.

Pretty much every night, I have to take Ativan, and I fall asleep crying. I keep hoping that when I wake up, I won't still be crying. It's not working too well.

Last night, I was running out to grab something to eat when I ran into a guy I'll call Mr. Rogers because he's my neighbor who lives in this building. He likes to talk a lot. So I told him hey, it's too late to go to Pirates, so do you want to come hang out and have drinks and watch cartoons or something?

Now, the guy reminds me of my older brother. He's a nice guy. He likes to entertain. He hung out with me during the last blackout, and he gave me a ride down to the Bywater when I needed to go and made sure I got to the venue safe and everything. Like I said, he always reminded me of my older brother, and they're probably around the same age (my brother is 41).

He didn't drink at all. I had one screwdriver. A. Single. Uno. And Michael called, and I talked to him briefly but didn't want to be rude to Mr. Rogers, but I deliberately was within earshot when I told Michael that I love him and that I'd talk to him in the morning. Because I was going out of my way not to be flirty JUST IN CASE. But I never thought I actually needed to be worried.

Until Mr. Rogers crawled over to my side of the couch and tried to kiss me. I put my hand on the middle of his chest and shoved him away. Hard. All the way back to his side of the couch. And kept talking like nothing had happened. He waited like ten minutes before leaving, but I'm pretty sure that's why he left. And that upset me a lot because I thought he was my friend, and he's not.

So I couldn't sleep last night because I kept having bad dreams, and Michael never called. And then I had to go to a urologist, and the waiting room was full of old men, and the doctor himself likes to TALK REALLY LOUD WITH THE DOOR OPEN AND ASK EMBARASSING QUESTIONS ABOUT MY SEX LIFE. I felt like I was in the sex principal's office being lectured on my private no-no area. Then he suggested that he put a stick up there or something to dilate the urethra, and I must've looked like I was about to jump out a window because then he changed his mind and just gave me a kidney ultrasound. The other people in the office were really understanding, but this doctor just like...didn't seem to get it.

Then I had to go to the pharmacy to get my prescriptions filled, and he said to ask the pharmacist if the medicine would affect my birth control and if so to call him back and he'll try to find another one. So I scoot up to the pharmacy counter and, thank God, the hot Asian guy didn't come to take my prescription. He usually does, and he knows my name and stuff, but I was not looking forward to that conversation...so I asked the girl, who tried as best she could to answer my questions quietly and quickly because there was some frat boy dude and some guy in an army uniform standing behind me.

So that is my fun happy adventure life. And Michael still hasn't called, although he just texted, and I think he's mad at me, but I really don't want him to be, and I'm reading into his text as something cold and ominous because I'm already feeling so bad.

Oh yeah, and I didn't go to group therapy this week. I drove there, but it looked like maybe nobody was there. I mean, I didn't look too hard, but I would've been really embarassed if I'd run into the therapist, and she'd laughed and told me that group was cancelled. So I left.

This week gets an F in life.

-pH
 

---

Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
 
Hi PH --

a random internet stranger (me) is very impressed by your story and offers whatever meaningful support can possibly be relayed by text. I wish you well!


p.s.

quote:

---

pH: Doctor, the church says they think I have demons in my head.
Psychiatrist #1: Well, there definitely is a dark spiritual energy around you when you freeze up. It wouldn't surprise me.

---

quote:

---

The girl's minoring in psychology, so she thinks she's qualified to analyze people's lives

---

grr hiss grr debasing ameteur psychological lecture
 

---

Posted by ssasse (Member # 9516) on :
 
I'm sorry it's been such a tough week, pH. I hope it gets better soon.
 

---

Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 
Did someone lose their login?
 

---

Posted by ssasse (Member # 9516) on :
 
Someone can't remember her password and doesn't want to take the chance of bothering Papa Moose at this time of night. (You just know if he saw a request, he'd stay up and answer it. Bless him.)

I'm so tired! *yaaawwwwn



But I was feeling bad for pH. It's a tough, long row to hoe.
 

---

Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
 
pH, good luck, dear! I'm sorry things have been difficult lately. It's obvious to me from reading this thread that you're strong and resiliant, seeing some of the things that you've come through, with your selfness intact. I have faith that you will overcome these difficulties too. Take care of yourself. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<hugs>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
 

---

Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
 
I'm sorry you're having such a rough time, pH.

quote:

---

He grabbed me by the wrists to keep ME from hitting HIM, and I leaned forward to get in his face and accidentally hit my own lip on my hand.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dagonee:
I'm sorry you're having such a rough time, pH.

quote:

---

He grabbed me by the wrists to keep ME from hitting HIM, and I leaned forward to get in his face and accidentally hit my own lip on my hand.

---

I've heard this explanation - or ones just like it - so many times from men charged with domestic assault and battery. It's apparently a popular story.

---

quote:

---

I'm deliberately sending these I AM NOT FLIRTING WITH YOU signals...

---

quote:

---

Unfortunately, the Christian perspective I was always taught is that if one feels guilty about something, it is clearly wrong.

---

Boy am I glad I didn't go to any of those churches. I didn't get a conscience so the last thing I'd need is someone telling me whatever I'm doing must be ok since I don't feel guilty.

I'm not OCD. I can use a pen with blue ink if there's no black ink handy. I'll use the rubber covered paperclips if the metal ones are on the other side of the room.

But I always take an even number of bites of my food. I always alternate which side of my mouth I chew on, starting with the right. (Which I still don't think is that weird although it seems to freak other people out.) A certain amount of habit-rituals seem to be inherent to all of us. My bf has some kind of issue with the number of papertowels he uses and our buddy always has to have three icecubes in his drink.

I guess what I'm saying is you're not as weird as you think, pH. We all do it to some degree. I know that doesn't make it all better, but I hope it helps a little.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Oh, I know he probably doesn't have any remorse, Bob. But I definitely loved seeing him cry.

I dunno if I'll be able to talk to Mr. Rogers again or not. It bugs me, and I don't really think I even want to bring it up or speak to him again. At least, that's how I feel right now. I'm just angry with everyone and really irritable, as well. Michael came over last night, and I'd fallen asleep...and when I woke up, I was still really irritated, so he let me go back to sleep for a little while and went out and got four pints of ice cream, which we ate while watching my new Simpsons dvds. The biggest problem for me is that when I feel this way, my compulsions get a lot worse. So I call people compulsively, count things, freak out about disease, obsess over whether the walls I'm painting are perfect enough...lately, I've been worrying about my tortoise. He just flipped himself over on his back, and I wonder if he's unhappy and trying to hurt himself. I know he's a tortoise and probably doesn't think like that, but I want him to be happy, and I feel like I'm not doing a good job.

Bah. I just feel bad about myself all around. I think I'm going to go take a nap and then go back to the gym again.

-pH
 

---

Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
 

quote:

---

quote:

---

Unfortunately, the Christian perspective I was always taught is that if one feels guilty about something, it is clearly wrong.

---

I didn't get a conscience so the last thing I'd need is someone telling me whatever I'm doing must be ok since I don't feel guilty.

---

That IF statement only works one way, so that wouldn't give you a free ride.
 

---

Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 

quote:

---

He just flipped himself over on his back, and I wonder if he's unhappy and trying to hurt himself. I know he's a tortoise and probably doesn't think like that....

---

Forgive me. But I find the idea of a suicidal tortoise hysterically funny. Particularly if he were manic-depressive.

If I were still making student films, this would be my next subject.
 

---

Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
 
reading up on tortoises, is yours climbing the wall of its enclosure, or do you have other steep-sided objects in there that it needs to navigate (e.g., to get water or food)?

Apparently this is not unheard of, but can be dangerous for the animal if it panics and/or gets overheated.

It's not like a purposeful behavior, but tortoises aren't genetically geared to deal with steep sided things, apparently.

You might try putting things in the environment that it could use to right itself just to see what kind of modifications you might want to make to its environment.

The one I read about was "climbing" up walls and would fall backwards as a consequence. Apparently they aren't wired to learn that this behavior results in tipping over.
 

---

Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by TomDavidson:
Forgive me. But I find the idea of a suicidal tortoise hysterically funny. Particularly if he were manic-depressive.

---

I find the idea of a schizo-effective tortoise even funnier. Bi-polar is just so last year don't you think? I CERTAINLY THINK SO!!!!!!!!

Arg.. so depressed



(note: I wan't exactly sure how to convey manic-depression in a single post. However, look over a longer thread and you'll see the progression )
 

---

Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bob_Scopatz:

The one I read about was "climbing" up walls and would fall backwards as a consequence. Apparently they aren't wired to learn that this behavior results in tipping over.

---

How could anyone have any faith in Darwinism after reading THAT?
 

---

Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
 
The fact that things aren't perfect is evidence FOR descent with natural selection, and against an intelligent designer who worked it all out in advance. Presumably the Designer would have thought of these things and provided for them.
 

---

Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
 
<just as an aside, to answer your question, and not to hijack pH's thread into another evolution vs. creationism thread, or anything>
 

---

Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
 

quote:

---

Presumably the Designer would have thought of these things and provided for them.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Orincoro:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bob_Scopatz:

The one I read about was "climbing" up walls and would fall backwards as a consequence. Apparently they aren't wired to learn that this behavior results in tipping over.

---

How could anyone have any faith in Darwinism after reading THAT?

---

Well, if you want a serious answer, if the problem really is a smooth precisely vertical wall, millions of years of evolutionary history could well leave any critter with an inability to deal with it, if there are no such things in the normal environment. Turtles flip and have ways of righting themselves. If they are placed in an environment where their usual tricks don't work, it's simply explained that their self-righting behaviors evolved in a different environment -- presumably one where the tricks did work sufficiently so that other strategies didn't need to evolve.

It's not that difficult to come up with an explanation within an evolutionary framework for practically anything. The problem is knowing whether the explanation is true.
 

---

Posted by ssasse (Member # 9516) on :
 
at Noemon

Exactly, Bob.
 

---

Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
 

quote:

---

It's a telling but little-known fact that the literal translation of the proto-Indo-European word for "thumb" is "turtle flipper".

---

 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Count Elmer does have a ramp to get to his water dish, and he also has half a hollowed-out log to hide in. I noticed this afternoon that he was trying to climb up the side of the log, so that's probably how he flipped over. Poor thing. I'm going to try to set up a little pen for him so that I can take him out of the tank and let him run around.

Random question: is it possible to get diseases from sharing laundry machines with people? Y'see, at my last apartment we had our own laundry, which my parents gave me brand new. And here, it's a shared laundry room, and I've been really worried about germs, especially since I don't want to have all my colors get jumbled up if I wash them in hot, but I don't know what else to do. Does bleach alternative disinfect?

-pH
 

---

Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
 

quote:

---

Count Elmer

---

quote:

---

Research shows that it is rare to become infected from handling biologically infected garments. However, until this clothing is washed or dry cleaned, we encourage you to wear disposable rubber gloves and discard the gloves after use. Laundering is the preferred method of cleaning because of the many flushes used in the laundering process.

---

quote:

---

Disinfecting your home laundry can be done inexpensively, easily and without damage to the fabric. Microbiologists at U.S.D.A.’s Textile and Clothing laboratory have identified 4 categories of products which are effective, safe for fabrics and are available in local stores. Use the amount of disinfectant listed on the product's label.
These are:

1. Pine oil disinfectants, which are effective in hot and warm water. Some brands include Pine Sol, Real Pine, Spic-n-Span Pine and Lysol Pine Action. They should be added at the beginning of the wash cycle.

2. Phenolic disinfectants are also effective in hot and warm water. Lysol brand disinfectant is available locally. Phenolic disinfectants may be added to the wash or rinse water, if the rinse water is warm.

3. Liquid chlorine disinfectants may be used in hot, warm or cold water temperatures. Chlorine bleach should always be diluted with water before adding it to the washer, and should never be poured directly on clothing. It also is not suitable for use on wool, silk, spandex or certain dyed and finished fabrics. Be sure to read the care labels on all items to be washed. Examples of liquid chlorine bleaches include Clorox and all supermarket house brands.

4. The last category, quartenary disinfectants, is extremely effective in all water temperatures, but is less available than the other products. The Amway company manufactures Pursue, which is specifically formulated for laundry. Label directions should be followed. Many household cleaners contain the effective disinfecting ingredients, but are not recommended for laundry purposes.

---

quote:

---

Quaternary disinfectants ("quats"), are available. CO-OP Sanitizer is available in certain supermarkets; Roccal is available from janitor, dairy, and poulry supply houses.

The following liquid chlorine bleaches are available in grocery stores: Clorox, King (liquid) Bleach, Purex.

The following pine oil disinfectants are available in grocery stores: Fyne Pyne, Fyne Tex, White Cap, King Pine.

The following phenolic disinfectants are available in grocery stores: Al Pine , Pine-Sol.

Check local supermarkets or drugstores for "house brand" products, too.

---

 

---

Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
It seems to me as a I read over my last post, that it is also equal proof against intelligent design. I mean, who designs a turtle that can't deal with vertical surfaces?
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
So you're saying I can Lysol my clothes?

-pH
 

---

Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
 
Yes, but only in warm or hot water and only using a product with laundry directions.
 

---

Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
 
pH,

I'm getting worried. This doesn't seem to be getting better. Do you have someone you can go see?
 

---

Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
 
I wonder if it makes your clothes smell all Lysol-y. I would like to do this, since I have laundry that includes some stuff like kitchen rags that have been used to wipe up spilled food, and cats linens that have been cat-barfed upon. Right now I put non-chlorine bleach in every load, about 1/3 of a cup, and leave most loads to soak overnight before rinsing. If a load is particularly icky, I have been known to run it through the wash twice, even though it always smells perfectly clean after the first time through my machine. I certainly wouldn't use Pine Sol on my clothes, as its smell is overpowering to me. Chlorine bleach will ruin many things, so I don't often use it.
 

---

Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
 
I think it needs to be said that catching illness-causing germs from an empty washing machine or dryer is extremely unlikely. A person is far less likely to catch a disease from a washing machine than they are just sitting in a classroom with other people or sharing a bus with other people.

In other words, this is not something you should be worrying about. This is not something that is ever going to happen to you.

I agree with Bob. This week I think you need to be in contact with someone in health care who knows you.
 

---

Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
If you're really concerned about germs, I would run a empty load on "hot" and add a high concentration of chlorine bleach before starting your actual laundry. Depending on how much your washer costs to operate, this is probably better than smelling like Pine-Sol.
 

---

Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
 
Just picking a washing machine that is bone-dry and has been empty for some period of time would be an option too. Many bugs/germs can't live on a dry metallic surface for very long. Assuming there were some there in the first place.
 

---

Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
 
If you're washing your clothes with soap, you don't have to worry any more about getting germs from the laundry machine than from any other surface. There's no reason to use any special stuff.

It's just a laundry machine, it's not a biological warfare disposal unit.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by MightyCow:
It's just a laundry machine, it's not a biological warfare disposal unit.

---

I can't even stand to take my laundry to a wash dry fold place because I can't stand the thought of another human being handling my underwear. Germs. Lots and lots of germs. I really need to just thoroughly clean and organize my house; a clean house makes for less anxiety overall.

And I'm in contact with mental health people constantly, so no worries . I go to therapy three times a week, each time focusing on a different method. The laundry thing isn't really new. I mean, people put their underwear in there and their sweaty clothes and stuff that they've spat on and their sheets that have God knows what on them...I've been considering having my washer and dryer installed in my house, except that there really isn't space for them, aside from the fact that the condo doesn't have hookups.

I do have Lysol, though...

-pH
 

---

Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
 
Well, my point was that there are no more germs in the washer than there are anywhere else. In fact, the washing machine is constantly filled with soapy water and then rinsed with clean water. I would guess that it has less germs than anywhere other public place in the building.

The other people in the building aren't germ-zombies are they? I doubt they have particularly filthy, germ-ladened clothes.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
I have OCD...reminding me that there are germs everywhere is probably a bad idea. I try to ignore that so that I can continue to function as a human being.

-pH
 

---

Posted by Sharpie (Member # 482) on :
 
A Rat Named Dog: What you described sounds identical to what my son experiences -- and he has Tourette's with OCD (relatively mild for both of them). But those little noises in the back of the throat, eye movements, face "twitches": my son's neurologist calls them tics. Quite a spectrum for some of these things, I think.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Sharpie, I blink compulsively. Like I blink at things a certain number of times. Or tap things. So yeah, it varies. And I wonder how they tell really, if it's Tourette's or OCD or what?

On the health front, the loud doctor man has informed me that I have some kind of infection and that instead of the Macro-stuff, I need to take penicillin. I've only taken penicillin once, in elementary school, and I got a rash. But they told me it was from playing in the sun while on antibiotics. And I'm not allergic to amoxicillin, which supposedly means that I shouldn't be allergic to penicillin. So hooray. Off to the pharmacy I go.

Y'know, I bet if I wasn't so anxious all the time, I wouldn't get sick so much. Yet another motivation to organize my house.

Edit: Well, great. See, the doctor didn't really say much about the infection except that I have one of some sort and that all of my tests aren't back yet. So now I'm going to spend the rest of the night convinced that I have some kind of venereal disease and will probably, at some point, decide that it is a good idea to apply hydrogen peroxide to that area. Okay. Cleaning cleaning cleaning cleaning planting flowers painting cabinets decorating organizing. Have to think of something else. And take Ativan.

Which means that I am totally screwed on getting my schoolwork done tonight. I hate you, brain.

-pH
 

---

Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
 
Poor brain! Don't you just want to smack it and say "Shaddup!"?

I would advise against peroxiding your genitals. You are fine.

You know you are. Listen to your Tante and not to your brain.
 

---

Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 

quote:

---

Yet another motivation to organize my house.

---

For most of the OCD people I know, actually managing to organize their house would not eliminate their anxiety; it would simply force them to refocus it. There are exceptions, of course, but I think it would help to be aware of the fact that your anxiousness in this regard is a symptom of your illness, not a consequence of some failure.

(As a humorous aside, and I mention this only because I also see elements of her in myself, are you familiar with the character of Hannelore in the webcomic "Questionable Content?" *grin*)
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Better to refocus my anxiety in a constructive manner, though. Instead of, I don't know, picking apart paper towels fiber by fiber. I just feel much more relaxed when my house looks nice. It makes it easier to think. Maybe it's because my mom always kept the house freakishly neat, including my room. She just organizes stuff. All the time. If I go home to visit, she'll clean my car and probably vaccuum it and hang a little trash bag in there, too. So I grew up with things really neat, but without the urge to keep them neat myself because...everything was just really clean on its own. And now I live by myself, and the clutter just feels wrong to me. Any clutter.

I bought paintbrushes and this really cute green set of mugs and a pitcher because I'm throwing out all my old dishes...and another season of the Simpsons.

What bothers me is that I can't be doing "thinking" work so much when I'm super anxious. It has to be something creative and preferably involving my hands, so painting, decorating, and so forth. That's the thing. I'm not just going to be able to sit and "relax" or "de-stress." So I just feel like it's better, if I'm going to have to DO something, to do something constructive as opposed to blinking or spinning in circles or whatever. Actually, I do really well at math when I'm like this too.

And no, I don't think I know about her, Tom. But I've read the comic a few times.

-pH
 

---

Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
 
You don't have a venereal disease. He is a urologist. You have a urinary tract infection, I would think. That's about the only infection urologists treat.

I can't even think of any likely venereal diseases that would be easily discovered by a urologist that are treated with penicillin. Plus I can only think of one std that is treated with penicillin, but it is usually intramuscular penicillin.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
So I'm actually feeling a lot better.

I'm still really freaking out about a lot of things, not the least of which being that I finish undergrad today.

Today.

I'm twenty-one. My boyfriend didn't get his bachelor's until he was twenty-five, and he doesn't seem to understand why I am totally and completely freaking out.

My therapist is making me see some EMDR specialist on Tuesday. She thinks I have PTSD in addition to the OCD, and she's probably right. In all honesty, this whole thing is bothering me even more. I mean, do you have any idea how much money I spend on therapists and psychiatrists and crap? More in a year than I'd be spending if I were paying my mortgage. It worries me. I mean, what if I can never really function like a normal human being? I'm having all this trouble, and I don't even have any REAL WORLD stress yet. So what do I do when I get a real job? Go to therapy six days a week? How am I going to pay for that?

I don't know what I'm going to do.

-pH
 

---

Posted by scholar (Member # 9232) on :
 
Living with someone with fairly severe psychological problems, your fears are very familiar. You probably are improving- even if somedays you don't think you are. Those little steps will add up. Also, there are new medications and new treatment options.
For real world jobs, think about the situations you do best in and what jobs will accomodate you. If you find a job is too tough, remember that there are other jobs and that just because this one didn't fit doesn't mean anything against you. You might even find that you do better at some jobs than you did in college.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
So my graduation weekend has been absolutely horrible. And now I wish that I could just fall asleep on command and sleep for as long as I wanted because sleep seems to be the only thing I can do right.

I invited two friends to come hang out at my house. We decided to go eat at this restaurant, and one of the guys wanted to go to some bars, so we did that, and then they were ready to leave, so I told them to hold on a sec so I could run to the restroom. On my way back out, I ran into this guy I hadn't seen in two years. He used to be kind of creepy, and he used to have a big thing for me, but...I don't know, I got this sense that maybe he'd grown up or something, and he mentioned having a girlfriend. So we talked for a little bit, and I said I had to go get my friends.

He came outside with me. The two guys were gone. I called them, and when they finally called back, they said that they'd decided to walk back to my house (we'd taken my car, and one of them was the DD). Thing is, they had absolutely no idea how to get back to my house. And by this point, I was really mad that they'd just walked off and left me. Who does that?

So Freshman Year Guy offered to go pick them up and drop them off at their truck, which I was cool with. Then we came back and I met one of his friends, who was a sweetheart and who kept trying to get me to swing dance with him. So I invited the two of them to come over and watch movies at my house.

Mistake.

They started flipping through the pay-per-view porn. I told them that was totally not cool and made them change the channel. FYG called his girlfriend, and I gave her directions to get here, and then she and I went out to get a bottle of liquor for everyone to share. I left my phone and my keys on the coffee table because we were just going to walk down the street.

Well, we finally got back (without liquor), and the two of them plus the guy who came with the girlfriend were, surprise surprise, watching pay per view porn. And on top of that, my boyfriend had tried to call.

So I kicked them out of my house. And it really upset me because all I wanted was just to hang out with some friends and maybe drink some wine and watch some movies, and it's just like...I can't even do that right.

So I pretty much slept all day today because every time I woke up, I just started crying and had to take ativan. And Michael still hasn't spoken to me all day. I just am so upset with everyone and everything right now. And what if Michael is mad at me and breaks up with me or something? And if he's not mad, why isn't he talking to me?

I just want to go to sleep, but I'm too upset.

Anyways, I guess that doesn't have much to do with ocd, but I'm just really depressed now, and I always feel like whenever I really need people, they're not there for me. You know?

Also, I think FYG might've stolen my house keys. I wouldn't put it past him...he was kind of shifty back in the day. And the thing is, they weren't on the coffee table where I left them when I got back, but I thought maybe someone might've moved them for some reason...but....they're nowhere to be found.

In conclusion, I really need to stop believing that people are good.

-pH
 

---

Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
 
Oy. I believe that most people are good. I probably wouldn't bring folk back to my house like that, but, hey, I'm guessing that your place is MUCH tidier than mine. And if I did have guest over, unless I knew them extremely well (like, say, if they were family) I wouldn't have left the house with them there. So, yeah, that part probably was poor judgment. Live and learn. And, I'm guessing that it would be a good idea to change your door locks. Or add a new one. I mean, this is a bad thing that you can see coming and can easily dodge, right?

The problem that folk like you and I have, folk who go about believing that most people are good until proven otherwise, is that sometimes we get disappointed. Even so, I would rather be disappointed in people now and again, than to be constantly suspicious and dubious about people's motives.

Let me know how the EMDR thing goes. I know someone who did it once. He said that it wasn't hard or bad or scary, just kind of strange.
 

---

Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
 
I had a patient last year who thought EMDR helped her much more than anything she had ever tried before. Unfortunately, she then moved to my town, where EMDR was not available. We actually parted on bad terms shortly before I left that job, I never could reach her after that to see how she was doing.

[ July 23, 2006, 06:23 PM: Message edited by: Theca ]
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
I really don't think I understand this EMDR thing. And I'm really not sure that it won't just make things worse.

Like, my extreme phobia of pregnancy, pregnant women, and young children. My therapist thinks it's because when I was born, I had a nanny, and my mom worked. When my mom had my little brother, she let the nanny go and stayed home to work. Therefore, I associate pregnant women with abandonment, or something.

And I really don't think focusing on that is going to help me. My general strategy is to just try to put all of that sort of thing in one little corner of my brain and keep it there where I can ignore it for as long as humanly possible until something happens that I absolutely have to think about it.

It's like how I deal with public speaking. I just sort of...try as hard as I can not to think about my surroundings unless I absolutely have to. I maintain "eye contact" with my audience by looking through them instead of at them.

Is it really going to help me to focus on this stuff?

I don't know. I'm definitely depressed and spazzing out right now, and I'm trying as hard as I can just to avoid all those feelings so that I don't spend the whole day crying in my room. So I'm sleeping or...putting together this new lamp that I bought or organizing my house...

I finally found a charity to pick up my furniture, but the guy called me back yesterday morning, and I didn't feel like having contact with the outside world, so I didn't answer the phone.

I'm getting some damn Applebee's. It's not likely that I'll have more than one meal today anyway. Maybe I'll be able to drag myself out to go biking.

-pH
 

---

Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
 
((pH)) I don't know what to say.


Do you like salad? I don't eat at Applebee's, but I did see an ad on TV for their salads. Two hippie guys standing in a garden, playing guitar and bass, and singing about eating Applebee's salads. I like hippie guys who sing in gardens. If I thought that planting one would attract them, I'd definitely plant a garden. But in my experience, it mostly attracts rabbits, deer, groundhogs, slugs, and other produce thieves.

(Did that tangent help you to feel better? Sometimes when I don't know what to say, I land up changing the subject, and if I do it deftly enough, sometimes people don't notice. I'll bet you noticed, though. Well, I hope it helped anyway.)
 

---

Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
 
pH - I don't claim to know what you're going through but I can lay claim to my own sort of 'torture' at the hands of myself.

What it all comes down to is working out what sort of talking and to what sort of people actually helps you make sense of yourself. That doesn't mean that the 'experts' know best, it means what works for you. Also from my own experience, as much as I wanted to only listen to my peers, there were some of these 'experts' that had some good things to say to set me back on the right track.

I hope that in your journey you find some of the same type people I found to get me back to the whole person I am now. I got caught up in myself (that's how I look at it now) and lost sight of the bigger picture, which is what myself can achieve if I'm not caught up so much with the small stuff.

Keep plugging...
 

---

Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
 
pH, the lesson to learn from the creepy people is not that anything is your fault. It's not. They were acting badly, not you. The lesson to learn is to be careful selecting your friends, and the people you hang out with. And, yes, don't leave people alone in your house unless they are close friends that you trust a lot.

Let your bf have a little breathing room, if he needs it. He might need some time to himself or something. Don't sweat that. Take the time yourself to just relax and be good to yourself. Pretend you're at a spa, and eat really well, sleep well, and exercise. Get some sunshine.

People who hang out in bars and drink a lot can sometimes be not very responsible or mature people. Just saying. Be careful.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Tante, I haven't tried the newer salads yet! I want to though, even though the ads are the worst, haha. I like the oriental chicken roll-ups. And the onion peels.

One of the original two morons I was hanging out with dumped a bunch of nachos on the backseat floor of my car. Yeah, I'm going to continue to ignore their calls.

I did get to talk to my boyfriend...he's just having a bad weekend and was afraid that if he called, I'd yell at him, and also he hit a possum last night driving home from work at 4am and felt really bad about it. Stuff like that. But I don't blame him; I've been really snappy lately.

Law and Order marathon on Bravo!

-pH
 

---

Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
 
It seems to me that the entirety of the programming on USA Network is Law and Order marathon.

Wait. Onion peels? That's food? And they sell it at the restaurant? I just throw mine out. How in the world are they preparing onion peels that make you like them?
 

---

Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
 
They are fried onion strips served with a creamy horseradish dipping sauce, not the actual peels.
 

---

Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
 
Oh, well, that's very different. Never mind.

[/emily litella]
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
The sauce is the best part. Same goes for Burger King onion rings. Onion ring sauce can go on anything.

And now the Scientology episode of South Park is on!

"And then I pull out my gun! If Tom Cruise and John Travolta don't come out the closet I'ma cap this b*tch!"

-pH
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
EMDR actually seems kind of cool. We kind of condensed two sessions into one, so we did a history of trauma and also worked on relaxation "safe place" techniques. The relaxation stuff actually worked really, really well; I was way less stressed for most of the day.

Unfortunately, the therapist is both under thirty and attractive.

Anyways, I'm feeling a lot better. I've been a little irritable because of these weird headaches I've had for the last few days, but other than that, I think I'm okay.

Still stalling on my application essay, though.

-pH
 

---

Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
 
*hug* I didn't see this thread until today. I knew you some ocd issues but reading what your life is like helped me to understand you that much better, I think. Some of your experiences resonated with me. I know that I have some obsessive and compulsive tendancies. I tend to be very particular about the placement of objects on horizontal surfaces. I'm sure it makes my mom nuts that when I go to her house, I often move her things around. I know my husband finds it entertaining when clutter reaches my threshold and I must straighten regardless of the hour or anything else going on. I never really considered it unusual to occasionally have totally off-the-wall thoughts - like your Not-Me (being concerned about cutting off my fingers while I'm preparing dinner, wondering what it would be like to just suddenly drive off the road into oncoming traffic, or wondering what it would be like to shoot someone). I like making lists for everything. I tend to be quite fidgety (shaking my feet usually). I don't particularly like talking on the phone and sometimes find it really hard to return people's phone calls. I can remember a period of several weeks when I was simply unable to decide what to do and so couldn't do anything. Anyway, I don't know what my point is - I suppose I'm rambling. I guess maybe what I'm trying to say is that you're not alone in the struggle to figure out how to make your life work. I'm really glad you have good therapists and doctors to help you figure it out.

[ July 26, 2006, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: ludosti ]
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
So if anybody's up, I could really use somebody to talk to right now.

Like, majorly.

I am just like...feeling like....I can't even explain it. It's like, I feel like....I can't explain here. I just can't.

But if anyone is awake, please let me know.

-pH
 

---

Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
Hope someone was awake to IM with you, pH, and that you're doing better today.

[ July 27, 2006, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: Noemon ]
 

---

Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
 
Me too! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<pH>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Thanks a ton for the support, you guys. Emotionally, I'm feeling a whole lot better, especially since I got to spend the day with one of my friends.

I'm having trouble sleeping, and silly me forgot to get my ativan refilled, so I'm waiting for the Benadryl Sinus to kick in. I needed some for my headache, anyway.

I think the most frustrating thing about not being able to sleep is the fact that the rest of the world is so quiet that there is very little with which I can distract my mind. I mean, there are movies on tv and stuff, but there aren't many people online, and it's dark, and very few people are still awake. It gives my mind far too much leeway. My thoughts often seem to get worse at night, which is why the ativan has been so helpful. For a while, I took Sonata too, which works a lot faster than ativan. Because usually for my night anxiety, all I really need is to go to sleep. The ativan is useful both at night and during the day, though. But I kind of miss having the Sonata around. The time between taking my medicine and waiting until I can actually fall asleep is always really uncomfortable. I wonder if I should talk to my doctor about taking Sonata again, as needed. It would really come in handy right about now. I mean, under normal circumstances, 30 ativan can last me a couple of months. And I don't feel the need for Sonata nearly as much. Don't remember if it's habit-forming, though. He always cautions me about the habit-forming properties of ativan, but I've never had a problem.

I had a problem with geodon. Which apparently, isn't supposed to be habit-forming, at all. But if I didn't take it, I wouldn't sleep. At all. If I didn't take it for three days, I would be awake for three days, and no amount of ativan or sonata or unisom would help.

It's weird, y'know? I mean, people sometimes say that a lot of times, people use drugs to avoid problems or numb the emotional pain, or something. I guess I kind of did that. I mean, I was never, you know, into drugs, but when I was having all that trouble with sleep, I wouldn't turn down a xanax or something. I just wanted some rest, not to get a buzz or anything. I just wanted to sleep like a normal human being. 'course, I only tried that stuff a couple of times, but even that only put me out for two hours. Haha, now I've admitted that. Now I can never run for public office!

Anyways, I mostly just wanted to babble for a little bit to sort of give my brain something non-circular to think about until I felt a little more sleepy. So now I think I'm going to try to sleep again.

I do feel a lot better though. And if the whole sickly thing really is a blood sugar issue, that would explain why I've been so snappy and easily upset lately. Well, I mean, there are other stressors. But I just feel like I've had a ridiculously short fuse as of late. Well, until yesterday. Then I started to feel a little better. Still really touchy, but not as much. At least, I don't think so. And I don't feel as though I stay upset as long. I never used to have too much of a temper, but now a lot of times, I feel like I need to defend myself somehow.

One last, random note: This isn't to ANY of you guys at all. It's just something that some people I know in real life have said to me. You know, I've never understood how someone can just tell me, "Oh, I used to be a little ocd, but then I just woke up one morning and decided that it was crazy, and that I should stop. That means that if you just wake up one morning and decide to stop, it'll go away." ...well, okay. Good for you. When you have lain awake nights for weeks on end trying to figure out how many thousands of times you have to blink at a particular spot on the wall before you can go to bed to prevent something terrible from happening (and of course, if your roommate or anything else interrupts you, you have to start over), then you can tell me about how you just woke up one day and decided not to be like that anymore.

I never say that to any of these people, though. I feel like it entices them to try to get into some kind of "crazier than thou" battle. And that's not right. I mean, I don't want to belittle their pain, and they shouldn't try to belittle mine. Y'know? I just find it strange that there are people who think it's a contest. I dated a guy like that once. He would never just listen to what I was trying to say. He always had to one-up me, no matter what I was talking about. Including if I was trying to explain my mental issues to him. Maybe tomorrow I'll tell you this spectacular story about him (if I haven't already; I don't remember, and I didn't re-read the first page of this thread before I started typing this post). It pretty much describes our entire relationship.

Well. There's more to the story, but the short version is this:
Guy calls me and tells me that he got fired from his job and is driving west and is just going to drive until his car runs out of gas and then go try to rob a bank and get shot by the cops.
I pause for a moment, then say very calmly, "[Guy]. you can't go get killed by the cops because my laptop is in your car."

Anyways. This is my random ocd-related babbling for now. I'm going to try to sleep again.

-pH
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
I'm pissed.

My boyfriend's job is stressing me out.

I mean, seriously. The government is such a **** block. And if there's one thing I'm bad at, it's handling uncertainty and weird schedules and being out of contact.

I'm trying as hard as I can to keep myself busy because I'm afraid I'll start obsessing over the whole "secret double life" theory. See, I've been slowly finding out over the last few months just how many lies my psycho possessive ex told me. Even though we've been broken up for over a year, I'm finding these things out now. And it's making me really paranoid. I mean, these are things that would be blatantly obvious to any other human being on the face of the earth, and I still believed him.

So Michael being at work all the damn time and not being able to talk to me makes me worry. What if he's lying? Of course, it got worse after I actually had breakfast with the psycho ex, who tried to suggest that Michael was not, in fact, a rocket scientist at all and that he was clearly lying to me and cheating on me. I tried really hard to act like it hadn't gotten to me. And of course, I never even hinted to him that it had gotten to me; I treated him like he was the psycho insane person that he is.

But it made me worry.

I mean, I worry to the point that sometimes I check the things that Michael tells me. I Google them to make sure they're actually happening.

And of course, when he doesn't call, my first thought isn't that he's at work...it's either that he's dead, in the hospital, with another girl, or living his secret double life.

I feel so insane thinking that. I've been trying really hard to work on it, but it's really difficult. What's funny is that as soon as I start telling our whole dating story to someone, I all of a sudden am like, "I am insane. Clearly, this guy is crazy about me."

But for now, I'm just worried.

Fortunately, I refilled my ativan.

-pH
 

---

Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 
The reason you know he's not leading a double life is that (1) he lives in Slidell. There's no one there worth running around with.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
But he mailed me a card once that was postmarked in Baton Rouge.

Which made me suspicious even as I was all, "Awwwww, he snail-mailed me an adorable card!"

-pH
 

---

Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
You know, you could confront the worst-case scenario. If he were living a double life, would you leave him, or does he treat you well enough now that it wouldn't matter?
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Oh, I'd be gone. I've wallowed in that possibility for a long time. It would be really hard, though, and I'd probably go straight back to dating like four guys at once. The EMDR guy said that we could treat the whole psycho possessive ex relationship as a trauma, especially since I completely spaz out if Michael uses phrasing that reminds me of him or something.

It's like...I was trying to explain it to Michael. I'm not constantly comparing the two of them. It's that I'm terrified of Psycho, and I guess on some level I feel like he's going to come back to get me through the people who are close to me.

Edit: What's funny is that I have his credit card information and home address. And I'm still convinced sometimes that he doesn't actually live there, or that....secret double life.

-pH
 

---

Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 
But do you recognize it as paranoid behavior, or do you logically dismiss the notion of the double life even though emotionally it worries you?
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Depends. Sometimes I'm like, this is a silly, paranoid fear. And then I'm fine.

But especially when I don't get to talk to him for a while, especially if he says he'll call and he gets too busy to do so, then I start wondering. What if?

And of course, it's even worse if he uses the same phrasing as Psycho when talking about something. He did that last week...it was just...the way he said something, one key phrase, and I completely lost my mind. It was the worst feeling in the world. It was like the psycho was back, reincarnated. Or channelling. Or something. It was awful. I cried and cried...and I felt so terrible for crying and for getting so angry with him, I mean, he did give me reason to be angry, but not....as utterly distraught as I was.

-pH
 

---

Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
 
Good luck! Try remembering how hard he is working and how much love and support he needs when he finally gets a few minutes off.

Try focusing on him and the things he is going through and what he has to deal with. Try making that better however you can. Maybe it will distract you from your own worries.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
But that's the thing...he doesn't even talk about it much. Even when something happens that I know is really hurting him, he doesn't react to it. At all. So I make him lunches (because he doesn't eat, like, anything at work...and stew out of a vending machine isn't food)...but it's like, I don't know. I sometimes wonder if the burden of dating me gets to him, except that whenever I think I've totally crossed the line, he always tells me that it's okay, he's not mad.

I mean, allow me to explain why this is only my second serious relationship...

Dating me is hard. I know this. Because I'm really nice, I really am, but...I have all these eccentricities. Like if there's a roach in my house, I have to drop a heavy object on it, and then I can't touch the object or the roach until someone comes to throw them away and clean the floor for me. Because of the GERMS. And when I get anxious, I call compulsively. And I insist on being able to hang out with guys one-on-one, in what any other situation might be seen as a date. And also, I feel like I can't decide if I'm...like, I find it difficult to think about the future (he doesn't bring it up; he's not the pushy type, but my shrink does)...because I'm afraid that I'll start feeling trapped. And when I feel trapped, I feel all this pressure in the relationship, and it's bad.

I mean, on one hand, I'm a really thoughtful, sweet girlfriend. On the other hand, I have really bad OCD. And to tell you the truth, he's the first guy who hasn't tried to turn it into a contest of who's crazier...or who hasn't tried to "fix" me, like somehow I'm some bargain run-down house that he can fix up until it's everything he dreamed of. He tries to help. He likes to help. Help, not fix. Not tell me what to do.

Gah. I'm just very much spazzing out. And it bothers me that I haven't met his parents; it contributes to the secret double life theory. I was hoping his mom could take care of Count Elmer if we ended up going on our trip. Maybe he can just give me her cell number or something. I just really do need to meet her and see their house. Because what if he's secretly got like a family or something, or he lives with a stripper, or....in a cardboard box?

-pH
 

---

Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 
What if he lives with a family of strippers, in a really big cardboard box?

Honestly, though, I've never gotten the impression that you're driving him crazy with all your, ahem, eccentricities. So I wouldn't stress it. I know that you don't totally have control over whether you do, but to the extent that you can control it, I would be secure in the knowledge that he's a good guy and your relationship is on solid ground.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
But what if I'm not driving him crazy because he has someone else to not drive him crazy? If that makes sense....

I dunno. I just wonder sometimes if his work timelines jive with what I look up about the whole space shuttle thing. But...I do think I read something about them needing the tank ready like this week, so I guess it makes sense for him to be sleeping in his car in their parking lot for like an hour at a time all weekend.

-pH
 

---

Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
I have to admit that I'm not thrilled by the idea that people doing crucial, detail-oriented work on the space shuttle aren't getting enough sleep and are napping in their cars.

I'd rather they launched late with numbers produced by well-rested individuals, frankly.
 

---

Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
 
pH, you have to trust him. If you love someone, you have to trust them! Your distrust is eating away the relationship you wish to preserve.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
I do trust him, most of the time. And he DEFINITELY trusts me, a whole lot. Way more than a lot of guys would.

It's when I don't get to talk to him for extended periods of time, especially when he says he'll call and doesn't...

Then I start worrying a lot.

-pH
 

---

Posted by JennaDean (Member # 8816) on :
 
How long is an "extended period of time"? What would be a rational time to expect to hear from him, and what is too much?
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Like, I was completely freaking out when he went to Arizona or New Mexico or whatever the crap cactus place and could only talk to me for about fifteen minutes in an entire week. But at the same time, he'd told me that that would happen.

What gets me is when he says he's going to call and doesn't. Or when he doesn't say anything at all. So right now, it's both. And I think it's weird to not hear anything from him for two days.

Especially when we were supposed to meet his parents this morning.

-pH
 

---

Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
 
(just saw this post)

Have you talked to him about the whole "not calling" thing? Different people have different ideas about how much communication is necessary. My boyfriend used to be the same way until finally I told him that if I went 24 hours without hearing from him, I would implode into an anxious ball of fluff. Maybe your guy is just the kind that likes alittle more space or maybe he hasn't clued in on how much communication you need.

If you're in New Orleans, we should hang out. My boyfriend is moving there sometime in August and I'll probably be staying with him for the occasional holiday and long weekend.

This has been such an amazing read. My only exposure to OCD comes from Dateline specials and the like. About two years ago, I went through a bad time of depression. Didn't sleep, didn't eat, didn't go to school. About that time I became pretty paranoid and that widened the gap that held back my anxiety. I got over my depression with therapy, alittle medication, and a housing change (my old roommates were the worst bunch of backstabbers.) Unfortunately, my anxiety hung around. The worst part about the anxiety is that it causes irrational behavior as it builds. I've always been a counter and when I'm stressed I'll count by touching each finger to my thumb. The more stressed I am, the longer I'll do it, building more and more complex patterns and I can't stop until it "feels" equal which is unfortunately never, simply because of the pattern I use. I remember getting into a fight with my boyfriend one night and being so out of my mind that I walked around the room in a daze touching each wall, around and around until I had done it right. But I think the worse is the whole notion of doing things to prevent "bad things" from happening. I have this philosophy that the worst things in life are unexpected, so if I can think of everything bad that can go wrong, it won't happen. Every morning during my drive to school I would imagine gas leaks, fires, busted water pipes, robbers, and anything bad that would happen to my apartment. And I'd do it for everything. Before I went to the store, before I went out with friends, etc. When the bad things I imagined didn't happen it was like affirmation of my behavior. And when bad things did happen, I felt guilty because I hadn't been thorough enough in my thoughts. It was like a constant state of punishment.

Thankfully, by managing my stress early and heading off the majority of my anxiety, I can keep most of my irrational behavior at bay. I still finger count when I'm tired and I still imagine bad scenarios, but it doesn't consume my life and I'm learning to discount my irrational "knowledge." My biggest battle will be writing my thesis this year while maintaining a long-distance relationship. Since school and my boyfriend are two of my five biggest anxiety set-ups, I'm not sure how well I'm gonna cope but I've already got some strategies and plans in place to help.

I think its amazing how well you function despite your challenges. You're in school, you're in a relationship (which is good despite its kinks), and you're doing what you can to improve the state of your condition. Its inspiring and educational to hear your story!
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 

quote:

---

When the bad things I imagined didn't happen it was like affirmation of my behavior. And when bad things did happen, I felt guilty because I hadn't been thorough enough in my thoughts. It was like a constant state of punishment.

---

That is EXACTLY how it feels. And I have talked to him about not calling, and he tries to be good about it. But he's at work so much that usually, he's calling from work, so I guess that limits when he can get in touch. He hasn't even logged into Myspace since Friday, and he'll do that if he has like thirty seconds free, so I guess he's really busy. He did call Friday evening though, around his "lunch" time, because I'd asked him earlier in the day to do that and mentioned that he hadn't been doing so. What's worse is when I start getting relatinship-related rituals, which get worse the longer we're out of contact. I remember when I was fourteen, right before I stopped speaking completely, I had this boyfriend (you know, the "oh, we held hands!" kind of boyfriend you have around that age...and my first kiss!)...I would start, if I was walking and had to turn in one direction or another, I had to spin in clockwise circles a certain number of times, which somehow related to if/when he called and how long we were going to stay together. I ended up breaking up with him after 8 days, but still.

I do a bit of that now. And I have trouble talking about the good parts of our relationship or our vacation plans because I feel that if I talk about them, they won't happen.

I think that lowering the general anxiety level might be the best thing. I'm a lot better than I was a year ago. I'm not sure what made it happen. I mean, I used to swear up and down to my shrink (even after he put me in the hospital) that there really WERE demons in my head because I couldn't possibly be thinking such thoughts. And I was so concerned that my rituals were going to affect the afterlife for me and those I knew. I don't know what happened. Maybe something just snapped in my head. It still bothers me every once in a while, but for the most part...my focus has changed. I don't actively address the concept of the afterlife in the same way. It's like, all of a sudden, I just felt like...first of all, I've already lived in my own personal hell for quite some time, and secondly, I think a carrot/stick focus when it comes to faith is completely counterproductive.

Maybe that's one of the reasons I'm so interested in philosophy and ethics.

Good luck with your relationship! Long distance can be tough, but we can definitely hang out when you're in town. And if you want to talk about our various anxieties sometime, let me know. Thanks so much for the encouragement.

-pH
 

---

Posted by scholar (Member # 9232) on :
 
Some of my friends have worked for NASA and NASA related companies. One of my roomies in college did and still does something with satellites (she's on the black side so does not discuss work more than that). What I learned from her is that normal schedules are a joke. If they need you at 2am, you are there at 2am. If I didn' see her for a week, well, that was normal. And calling from work is always awkward. People who have my work number understand that they are not supposed to actually use it.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
I still haven't heard from him.

I've spent most of the day in this weird, half-asleep state. Where you're lying down with your eyes closed, but vaguely aware of your surroundings, and you start to have dreams that you can control to a certain degree.

I know I'm just avoiding the issue, but I can't really confront the issue when...I can't get ahold of him. When I can talk to him, okay. When he hasn't spoken to me since Friday evening...I'll just sleep.

-pH
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
So I did finally get to talk to him, and he was completely surprised to hear that I thought he was never going to speak to me again. And that, since pretty much everything I have to do outside the house involves our vacation on some level, I didn't do anything all weekend because I was afraid that if I did, he would just not speak to me for a while, then finally call me back and tell me to go [bleep] myself and never see me again.

I really do fear that's going to happen at some point. I mean, the psycho broke up with me ON the day we'd been together four months...while I was driving him to the Oakenfold show for which I'd gotten us on the guestlist. And he didn't understand why I didn't want to go to the show after he told me. He's the only person who's ever broken up with me. I know most people get dumped at least once in their lives, but it was just so out of the blue...is it usually out of the blue like that?

So anyway, the point is that I worry, when I don't talk to my boyfriend for a while, that he's woken up one morning at decided he doesn't want to be with me anymore. Despite his claims that he doesn't "work that way." I mean, for all I know, he could dump my ass in Mexico. Or right when we get back.

I should not be awake this early. I require Burger King, stat.

-pH
 

---

Posted by Andrew W (Member # 4172) on :
 

quote:

---

I've spent most of the day in this weird, half-asleep state. Where you're lying down with your eyes closed, but vaguely aware of your surroundings, and you start to have dreams that you can control to a certain degree.

---

quote:

---

He's a very controlled person, but he still does all these things (it's cleanliness for him rather than anything else). Now I have an almost pathological dislike of being 'irrational' or 'out of control',

---

What you need to realize about OCD is that it's an issue with the desire for control. In other words, you want to control your surroundings, and you need to have things "this way." It's a way of exerting control. People who have OCD are very, very disciplined. It's sort of a contradiction. You don't have a lot of control over the rituals, but in performing the rituals, you feel that you're gaining control over some other element of the world.

OCD also causes a lot of shame. I kept mine entirely hidden for six years because I didn't know what was wrong with me, and I was afraid that people would thnk I was weak or crazy. Y'see, people with OCD are generally perfectionists and pride themselves on the appearance of control, and most of them are really ashamed of what they do, ESPECIALLY if they haven't been diagnosed and don't have any experts around to tell them that what they're doing isn't insane. And the thing is, I've found (and my current therapists/doctors recommend) that reducing the general level of anxiety is often much, much more useful in reducing the overall severity of the rituals/compulsions than addressing an individual ritual by itself. On top of that, suggesting that he just resist could be causing more shame and make him even less likely to seek help. People with OCD can be a handful for doctors to begin with; we're some of the least likely people to stay on medication because we resent the idea that we can't make ourselves better. So I'd say yeah, maybe you should back off a little because believe me, if he could stop, chances are that he would.

And it's not uncommon to control rituals a lot in public. I've kept mine hidden to the point that there are people who've known me for a while who wouldn't believe me if I told them about it. Sometimes you can perform rituals in public that look pretty innocuous, like blinking or tapping, which help to reduce anxiety without "outing" you as having OCD. But if you notice this kind of thing, don't mention it to him. He'll probably get really embarassed. At least, that's what happened to me, especially before I saw a doctor.

Does that help? There are some books I've been reading that have been pretty good for understanding it, too.

-pH
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
*bump to make sure AW sees it, just in case*

-pH
 

---

Posted by kaminari (Member # 9622) on :
 
Hey pH, I don't know a whole lot about the world and it's situations, certainly can't fathom how hard this must be for you. I do have an idea though, if you haven't already come across it. Way back you mentioned that you were going to try writing down all of your rituals, and it seems to me like that's a good idea. Have you ever considered concentrating on writing as a means of controlling your OCD? Take your frustrations and random thoughts and set them into a tangible form; something you can control. Notice a new ritual? Write it down, and try to be concious of it the next time yo udo it. Again, I have ZERO medical background and no credibility whatsoever, so take this with a grain of salt. I really like what you've done with your forum posts here. And it sure seems to me that you have a supportive community of people here rooting for you. Keep up the posts! You're doing great!
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
kaminari, I've noticed that it helps a lot just to get it out in the open. Well, sort of the open. I don't think I'd be comfortable doing a ritual in front of anyone, but...it helps just to mention it. I'm getting to the point that...I don't know if "control" is the right word for what I want to do. Maybe "direct." Or "focus." Because I do think that to a certain extent, OCD has been beneficial to me. Sort of. I mean, I learn things very, very quickly, and I think that's a function of intuition. And I kind of feel that OCD is intuition gone terribly awry, which is maybe why I felt so strange and "wrong" when I was on certain medications (especially SSRIs). But I do still need to make that list. I've been putting it off; I think I'm a little afraid of seeing it in a tangible form. That's been an issue with me for a while though; I've had trouble writing/saying certain things in case that somehow made them "real."

At least today, I got some validation for the hell of high school. My therapist pretty much said, "You're not paranoid if they're really out to get you." 'cause y'see, the shrink at my high school (to whom I was dragged against my will) declared me paranoid...and apparently, too self-absorbed because clearly, it was absolutely ludicrous for me to believe that the administration was picking on me (which my parents and therapist completely believe, so I guess they're paranoid too) or that they had meetings about me...despite the fact that a teacher had accidentally sent an email concerning said meetings to ME instead of to the guidance counselor. Or "dean of students," or whatever she was called. I think that contributed a lot to my supposedly being out of touch with reality. I mean, I'm not going to deny that I'm probably pretty out of touch, but it's kind of hard to figure out what's real and what isn't when you have people denying the existence of cold, hard evidence.

Anyways. The point is, I'm not paranoid. And it felt really good to hear someone agree with me on this (my parents had never come out and said it to me, but apparently they told her about it because she's the one who brought it up). And it also felt good to hear someone agree with me on this whole school shooting crap.

So, good.

-pH
 

---

Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
 

quote:

---

What you need to realize about OCD is that it's an issue with the desire for control. In other words, you want to control your surroundings, and you need to have things "this way." It's a way of exerting control. People who have OCD are very, very disciplined. It's sort of a contradiction. You don't have a lot of control over the rituals, but in performing the rituals, you feel that you're gaining control over some other element of the world.

---

...sometimes you hear/read things that just make so much sense...

My biggest trouble, the source of all my irrational thoughts and behaviors, is a need to control the world around me. I hadn't realized it until someone pointed it out to me a year ago. When I accepted it, my whole perspective changed.
 

---

Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
 
pH, I've never had OCD, except for a few very mild symptoms, like thoughts that recur spontaneously that aren't too troublesome (every time I crossed a bridge for a while I would look down to see how far down it was, and whether there was water there or oncoming traffic or what, sort of planning for the bridge to collapse). But SSRIs made me feel very very strange, too. At first they were great, kicking me right out of the spiral of depression, but after a couple of months I began to feel less and less like myself and more and more like some robot or alien had taken over my body and I was just an observer of the scene. It grew intolerable. I can't describe how awful it was. So I quit taking them and luckily by then the depressive episode was over and I was fine without them. I've found since that as long as I uphold the four pillars of good mental health (regular exercise, regular and sufficient sleep, good nutrition, and sunshine in the optic nerve, in other words being outside for at least 1 hour daily), then I do just fine. The fifth pillar is prayer, and that's the most important for me of all. Also, I avoid any psychoactive substances like alcohol or caffeine because they adversely affect my brain chemistry.

Anyway, just wanted to let you know that you aren't the only one that can't bear SSRIs.

Do you take meds to manage the anxiety? I am curious what is available. I don't have anxiety but I know someone who does, who might benefit from them.
 

---

Posted by kaminari (Member # 9622) on :
 
pH: It's interesting to me to hear the ways that OCD has helped you. I don't think I've ever been told of the benefits of OCD. It's great that you recognize both sides. Good for you. I'm very impressed with your cognizance. You're far more developed in that field than I am.

Have a nice day today.
 

---

Posted by JennaDean (Member # 8816) on :
 
Ooh, Tatiana, I have such an issue with bridges too. I used to make plans for how I'd save myself if I went over the edge, until I had kids and realized I couldn't plan a way to save them all. Now I get very anxious and have to really distract myself to get over them, which surely isn't a good thing (to be that distracted when you're driving).

(Not trying to derail, pH; I've been following your thread with interest. I just haven't had much useful to add.)
 

---

Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
 
JennaDean, I was afraid my hyper-bridge-awareness would progress until I couldn't bring myself to cross bridges at all, and had to plot routes to various places that didn't involve bridges, which would be pretty hard to do. Luckily that never happened, and I just became less bridge-aware naturally without having to work on it. I think my brain may finally have gotten bored with those thoughts or something.

It didn't help that my state actually does a very poor job of maintaining existing bridges, and that several were discovered in an advanced state of disrepair that threatened their safety. As an engineer, I'm perhaps a bit too aware of the limitations of our technology, and how it doesn't work right unless we do certain things that we sometimes neglect to do.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Crap. I had a very long, well-thought-out post typed, and then I hit something and the browser went back and deleted it. Give me a little bit, and I'll retype it.

-pH
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Tatiana, I get really nervous around bridges, too. When I'm driving over steep ones, I worry that a wind will blow my car over the side.

As for medications, I take Wellbutrin on a daily basis. Actually, I take Wellbutrin XL and regular Wellbutrin (not sustained or extended release). It helps a lot to reduce general anxiety and improve mood. I think it's interesting that Wellbutrin is also used to help people stop smoking...I'm not sure how that works, but maybe it suggests that this particular medicine can help with habits. Doctors generally jump straight to SSRIs, and if one doesn't work, they'll just keep switching you to different SSRIs, which sometimes helps, but I think they should be more open to the possibility of other kinds of medications.

I also take ativan on an as-needed basis. Ativan is really helpful because you only need to take it when you're really anxious or upset, and it works in 20 minutes. It slightly relaxes you, sometimes makes you drowsy, and overall gives you a subtle sense of well-being. It can be habit-forming, I'm told, but I've never had a problem with that myself. It can last up to 12 hours, and a lot of times, within that time period you can figure out how to more constructively handle the issue, so when it wears off you don't get all freaked out again. It's really useful; a lot of times I have trouble doing things that I'm anxious about, even though not doing them makes me more anxious (like paying bills, finishing assignments when I really care what the professor thinks, and so forth). I had a class one semester before which I almost always took ativan because I was so, so worried that the professor would think I was stupid (he was also my advisor, and I was worried that he'd realize that I wasn't as intelligent as he said I was). It's a little extra boost when you need it.

-pH
 

---

Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
 
The one time I took Ativan (for an MRI because the doc SWORE it would relax me) it had the opposite effect. (<-- is it effect or affect? i'm going with effect as in cause and effect) Then again, I didn't want to take it in the first place so who knows why that happened.

pH - Do you research for yourself all the medications you're taking? I'm the type that shies away from them if at all possible. That being said, it seems like someone's consistently suggesting drugs and then different drugs and then more drugs if they don't work for you to get through your rough spots. Do you think you're able to get to the root of your symptoms through the many changing meds? Not meant confrontationally, just inquisitively.
 

---

Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 
It's effect in that sentence. But it affected you differently than the doc said it would.
 

---

Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
 
cmc, "affect" is the transitive verb, as in "x affects y" or has an impact on y. It always takes an object. Effect is a noun. Something has an effect on something else. Notice "an effect" is a thing, or a noun.

There's another sort of stilted verb "effect" which is used in sentences that usually sound rather pompous, and in official reports and stuff. When you want to effect a change (meaning bring it into effect), you can use "effect" as a transitive verb as well. It means something different, though, than "affect". "Effect" used this way means to bring about, whereas "affect" means to have an impact on.

Does that help?
 

---

Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
 
That definitely helps, thanks Guys. Especially since the best explaination I'd had was that the way to rememeber which to use is that effect is usually more of an emotional outcome - e/e. I've got lots to learn.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Well, I'm definitely the type to do serious research on medications before I'll take them. Unfortunately, in a lot of cases, psychiatrists can be really pushy, and when you tell them that you want to stop something, they just tell you it's working, keep taking it.

Hence, I have many, many times quit medications (and eperienced withdrawals) without doctor supervision. The last one was the most terrible; I was taking a combination of Prozac and Geodon. I didn't want to be taking it; it made me absolutely miserable. The whole time I was on it, I was....a complete mess. But without the Geodon, I couldn't sleep (which is what freaked me out so badly about it). And the Prozac made me shake really, really badly. But he wouldn't help me stop taking it, so I had to do it myself. The Prozac was easy, but the Geodon was horrible...I didn't sleep for days at a time.

So anyways, the answer is yes, I research my medications very, very thoroughly, and I ditch psychiatrists who don't give me the freedom to choose my own or to choose whether or not to be on medication at all.

What you have to realize is that while I've been on a crapload of medications, it's been over the course of seven years. So it's not like I have a bad day, and someone says, "Here, take this instead."

I always find it interesting when people talk about the "root of the problem." People always want to think there's some reason for this kind of thing, like your mother didn't hug you enough, or you were beat up in kindergarten...that's the thing. I don't think there IS one single root of the problem. I have OCD, and that's a physical difference in my brain. The way that the OCD manifests itself has been shaped by my experiences. I doubt I would be so fixated on certain anxieties if I hadn't had the same experiences or been exposed to the same media. But the real root of the problem (if it can even be considered a problem, which I don't think it is at all times) is my brain. So in this case, getting to the root of the problem would require brain surgery (yes, they do this to people with OCD), which doesn't sound like a very productive option to me.

I'm not saying that to be mean. I just mention it because...it's something akin to asking a clinically depressed person what made him/her depressed. A lot of times, there isn't an answer that's as simple as, "My puppy bit me, and a bird crapped on my head." I mean, it's perfectly natural for people to ask those kinds of questions or look for those kinds of things, but a lot of times, it just doesn't work that way.

I mean, after all, what do I really have to be upset or anxious about? From an outsider's perspective, very very little.

-pH
 

---

Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
And affect is only a noun to shrinks.
 

---

Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
 
heh heh - rivka! ; )

I was not at all going to mention this in this thread let alone on this forum, but here it is... I do know what you mean, pH. I was diagnosed as manic depressive or bi-polar or whatever the cool terminology for it that particular day is when I was 18. I spent 6 years running from the diagnosis because I KNEW that what I had was an eating disorder. Not so. The eating disorder was a manifestation of the <insert current term here>. I couldn't control anything but what was going into or coming out of my body, so that's what I did.

During those 6 years I psych shopped, learned as much about the diagnosis to be smart enough to hide any obvious symptoms and give all the right answers to be functional. I played the games of renewing prescriptions at all the right times but taking them only when I thought I needed it. Those were some of the 6 crappiest years of my life yet the whole time I thought I was doing myself right.

It came to a head when I was dehydrated to the point of needing a catheter and to be hospitalized for the fifth time for me to wake the funk up and realize that whatever I was doing before was just not working. I gave in and listened to the doctors, medical and psych, at least to hear their words. Prior to that, I pretended to listen all the while knowing that what I knew about myself was right and that I alone could solve all of my problems.

I was wrong. It took a while to get used to that fact. It took even longer to accept that my own body wasn't producing the right minerals to keep my own brain in check. Not cool realizations to come to but the past three years since it ‘clicked’ have been better than I could have imagined. I'm not saying I'd go back and make myself have listened sooner - I wouldn't be who I am now without that. But I will say that playing games with meds or doc shopping are not good alternatives for facing your own demons.

I am in no way trying to say that your problem mirrors mine, I'm just saying that I see similarities and appreciate what you're dealing with.

I said it before and I'll say it again, I hope you find some of the same type people I did because Life does not have to be so much work.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
At the same time, though, there sometimes comes a point where you DO need to tell your doctor to go screw himself. I take daily medications daily, and I take as-needed medications as needed. But there is no reason whatsoever that I should ever have been on so many drugs that my eyes wouldn't focus. I'm lucky enough to have found a group of doctors/therapists now who aren't afraid to say, "No, what that last doctor said was total crap, and you shouldn't have to take anything you don't want to."

What landed me in the looney bin was that I became obsessed with a very terrible suicidal image. I didn't want to CREATE or CARRY OUT this image, but I couldn't get it out of my head. Shrink #2 decided that my fixation on this image meant that I was going to kill myself. He didn't take into account that a big part of OCD is being fixated on terrible thoughts and being unable to get them out of your head. So off I went to the mental hospital, where I was put on antipsychotics, which made my head eerily quiet, which made me cry. This was decided to be a victory, despite the fact that I hated, hated, hated, hated the way I felt. Because hey, I don't have all the noise in my head anymore.

Well, people are supposed to have thoughts. And like I said, I don't think I want to be THAT "in touch with reality" ever, ever again. During the year that I was on that crap, I drank a lot, tried the occasional drug...mostly to get to sleep because I couldn't sleep without the antipsychotic, and said antipsychotic cost about $600 a month...so sometimes, I just couldn't get it the day I needed it. I put myself in a LOT of dangerous situations and did a lot of terrible things, and I was absolutely miserable. I do not, ever, ever want the universe to feel that "real" again.

-pH
 

---

Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
 
Yes, I agree! They will say things like "you feel normal, and that feels bad to you, so you want to quit taking the drug". They don't have any idea how you feel, or even what normal is. It's essential that the patient always retain control of the situation, since there is just so much room for abuse by well-meaning idiots.

I totally agree that doctor shopping until you find someone you trust and like, and choosing your own best course of treatment with the doctor's input and advice is the way to go.
 

---

Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
 
When talking about doc shopping I wasn't implying that anyone should just blindly listen - more saying that it's a good idea to listen to them AND you. Not only one or the other.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
cmc, I think my biggest problem with that is just that, like Tatiana said, they really have no idea what they're talking about when they talk about "normal."

I was seeing a psychiatrist the entire time I was on the geodon/prozac combination, and as I said, I was doing terrible, awful things. Did the shrink even NOTICE? No. Because he wanted to believe that he was helping and because I'm the kind of person who doesn't like to disappoint. So even though I was absolutely miserable, getting into unhealthy relationships, and doing bad things, as long as I showed up at his office with a robotic smile, he didn't notice. Or maybe he didn't care...after I got out of the hospital, our sessions, which used to be an hour long, started to get shorter and shorter. It got to the point that I was showing up at his office, he would ask me if I was having any side effects, I said no, and he sent me on my way (with a $200 bill, of course). When I told him that I hated the medication and was miserable, he didn't believe me.

What amused me before that, when he first put me on the medication, was that he'd leave me on something for two weeks and say, "Oh, this isn't giving me the desired effect. We need to raise the dosage." Which of course, is exactly what happened with the geodon.

No one in the world needs to be taking 180mg of that stuff. It could knock out a horse. I got into a car wreck because when I took the geodon, I had to sleep 12 hours before the grogginess would wear off. I fell asleep in my morning classes. But oh, it's helping, right? And of course, I'm the one who's out of touch with reality, so clearly I can't judge for myself.

Sorry, not annoyed at you, just annoyed at...Shrinks 1 and 2.

-pH
 

---

Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
*hugs pH*
 

---

Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
 
No prob - I didn't take it personally. ; )
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
I'm becoming increasingly disenchanted with group therapy. I think I need to be in a group made up of other people who also have pretty bad OCD. Because the thing is, I feel like I'm the craziest person in the group, and half the time, I can't figure out a way to word myself so that anyone understands what I mean, even after trying many times. I just sit there with the overwhelming urge to go off on someone, and while my therapist encourages this, I'm not sure if she really understands that I'm not always a nice, friendly, charming individual. And I don't want to get into a "crazier than thou" contest with anyone. I just feel like I have no way to express myself in a manner that the other people there can understand.

I'm trying to find an OCD specialist in the area, somehow. They have to exist. They would know.

-pH
 

---

Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
 
Hatrack is my group therapy.
 

---

Posted by human_2.0 (Member # 6006) on :
 
pH, so, previously you believed the OCD commands were coming from outside yourself, ala what your church taught you, and now you know they are coming from yourself?

There is certainly a civil war going on inside of you. Your dominant self makes you do things that keep you in a form of debasing servitude. The other fights her back with medication that immobilizes her, even to the point that she can no longer speak and it is completely silent inside your head (the anti-psychotics at the mental hospital). This is a civil war. It sounds like you have accepted that this is just the way you are wired and you have no choice but to live the rest of your life in internal conflict. I haven't accepted that.

I understand about chemical imbalances and that medication suppresses one chemical or supplies a needed chemical to achieve the proper chemical balance. But what is the body? It is a chemical factory and processing plant. It makes its own chemicals and removes bad ones. Feelings are chemical reactions, just a complicated form of the high school test tube experiments that turned liquids from one color to the other. Thoughts are chemicals and electrical reactions. Gut reactions are chemicals. Intuition is chemicals. Sixth sense is chemicals. Joy, pain, misery, pleasure, everything is a chemical reaction. We are chemical machines. Nothing happens in our bodies without some form of chemical reaction.

It is a scary thought that our bodies are so irrelevant, just a bunch of chemical reactions. But something inside of us makes decisions, something dictates what we do, which ultimately leads to the chemicals reactions that produce our thoughts and feelings. I think that part of us non-chemical. It is our soul. I really do believe that it is non-chemical and that it continues to live once the body dies. And I think that we have multiple decision makers inside of us. Anyway, souls or not, it doesn't matter because something makes decisions inside of us and that is what you need to focus on.

Ok, some people really have bodies that are messed up. Mentally handicap people are the prime example. But look at how they behave. They have a different dominant personality than everyone else because some parts of their decision making self isn't as able to work with the body. They exhibit a side effect of not having internal conflict. Their fears of social acceptance are way lower than ours. They make funny noises and shout and sing in public. Some have picture perfect memory. Some can hear a piano performance once and then sit at a piano and duplicate it with perfection. I think they can do this because they are uninhibited by the internal conflicts that we experience. And I think they are uninhibited because some part of them has lost the connection with their body. When you talk to a mentally handicap person, you are talking to only one side of their soul. The other part is just barely listening and probably wont ever respond to you.

I don't think your body is broke. I think you have been taught to punish yourself with OCD behavior. You are punishing yourself by flooding your brain with chemicals that forces you to feel feelings and think thoughts that make you miserable and will not go away until you submit to some task. In a way, you are doing this with your boyfriend too when you ask him repeatedly if he is mad at you or whatnot.

In spite of your dominant self's behavior, I don't think she is the enemy and I don't think she is dispensable. Your boyfriend's behavior shows he thinks this as well.

She behaves the way she does for a reason. I think this is why so many doctors think that going back to "the root cause" will fix you. It often fixes "2 brain" problems. But understand why it works.

People with "2 brain" problems have these problems because of what they learn, lessons like: standing up and giving the pastor the middle finger in the middle of church services leads to a HUGE discomfort. So no matter how hard you try, you will probably never be able to do that. I doubt few people could. Perhaps the only people who could do such a thing are either full of hatred, screaming for attention, or spoiled so badly they don't suffer the consequences of their actions. So again, these types of lessons determine what we decide to do later in life.

Going back to the roots fixes people because it corrects teachings. For example: being scared of something. As an adult, to correct the problem, the person learns that the thing is no longer scary. Most people do this automatically because they are constantly learning new lessons. But if someone is traumatized enough, as you (and I) have been, you QUIT learning. You shut down the channels of communication.

So you have to do 2 things. You have got to go to that girl inside of you and tell her that everything she learned as a child was wrong. Somehow you have got to open the channels of communication. Pacing helps me. Singing helps me too. I love to sing. Walking to think is lame but it is the only way I can force the random "where did that come from" ideas that make a difference in my life. Sometimes I have to pace for hours.

You may have to go through everything you learned one by one and disprove them too. It sounds like you have already started with the church teachings. But even though you know it, are you sure the one inside of you has? You have to make sure she listens and starts learning.

Unfortunately, no matter how much you convince her what she learned is wrong, she may still decide to do what she is doing. I know I have this problem. If this is the case with you, no matter how many root causes you find and effectively communicate to her, she isn't going to let up. So the second thing you have to do is convince her it is worth her while to behave. The medication is a big tool to help you do this because it essentially breaks her ability to force you to conform. It is like creating a form of the physical handicap that plagues mentally retarded people. My guess is that it infuriates her when you take medication but until she lets up, you have no choice. When she starts to let up, then your doctor will give you smaller doses until eventually she is civil and fair to yourself and you can trust her and can quit taking medication. That should be your goal: no more war.

When I think of you accepting a life of medication I am distressed. I don't think you are permanently wired to live this way, nor do you deserve it.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
My obsessive-compulsive behaviors began far too early for me to have taught myself to punish myself for anything. That's the thing. I was younger than 8 when I began experiencing these thoughts. It happened to me before I was strongly involved in the church. And the thing is, the doctors AREN'T looking for some underlying root experience or thing that caused it.

I think you're misunderstanding my acceptance of my condition, and there are many, many people who think the same way that you do. First of all, as I said before, it bothers me to no end when people believe that I should be able to overcome OCD through sheer force of will and who believe that the fact that this sort of elimination of the disorder isn't my goal means that I'm hopeless or using it as a crutch. Everyone has obsessive thoughts at one point or another, and most people learn to let them go, which is what makes it so difficult for me to be in a group therapy session in which I'm the only person with severe OCD.

Here's the thing: if I decide that I should be able to eliminate this through sheer force of will, that alone will become my obsession. On top of that, when it DOESN'T go away, or when it goes away and comes back, I'll feel ashamed that I couldn't fix it.

My mind isn't as split as it used to be. That's the huge difference, and I think that's what made my OCD so scary for so many people at first. I couldn't recognize, until a very short time ago, that everything really did happen within my own mind. Separating the two parts and trying to control one with the other would just reintroduce this schism, I think. In all honesty, OCD has helped me in a lot of ways. My mind is used to being active all the time, which means that I can split my attention to an insane degree. Some people think that it's not just a chemical difference, but a physical difference. That a certain part of the brain is shaped differently, or that the brains of people with OCD have more "gray matter" and less "connective matter." Whatever it is, I was miserable when it was entirely gone. That's why I don't take "ocd medications" or antipsychotics. I value the ability to make far-fetched connections, and I value the ability to live in a way that many would probably say is a bit out of sync with whatever is actually "real." I don't really know that it would be a good thing for it to entirely disappear. I just want to learn to use it even more to my advantage. It's like...I remember these thought exercises they used to have me do when I was young (because I was extremely bright) that were supposed to help your logical and creative sides work together better. Which is actually one of the reasons why I can halfway write ambidextrously (although I still write like a first-grader with my right hand).

Here's another thing: okay, so I'm no longer afraid of something. It will be replaced with a new thing. I had a very good example written out, but it would make me uncomfortable to post it. It's not that my mind has stopped learning and is fixated on old things or old fears. It's constantly evolving.

On top of that, I really don't think it's productive to discourage people from using medications that help them. I've encountered far too much of this from my family, who guilt me because of course, they're the ones paying for it. I chose, on my own, to take Wellbutrin. I like it, and I feel that it helps. I choose, on my own time, when I should take Ativan, and believe me, my general existence would be much more unfortunate if I didn't have that to help me. I think it's sad that many people view the use of psychiatric medication as some sort of weakness. Is it weakness to take penicillin for a bacterial infection? Or, for something more similar, is it weak for an asthmatic to take medication and use an inhaler when he/she needs it? I don't think so.

Don't get me wrong; I do think that there are many drugs that are overprescribed (i.e. Adderall), and I know first-hand that many doctors push medications on patients, but that's no longer the case for me. Maybe I'll decide to stop taking Wellbutrin one day, or maybe I'll want to switch medication, but I don't see anything wrong with my using it. It doesn't give me a mental handicap. It doesn't silence my obsessions. It gives me a ltitle boost and keeps me from getting depressed. Being stressed and being depressed generally aggravate OCD to a frightening degree. But I think I need to be a little scatterbrained; it's part of what makes me so intelligent.

And speaking of being scatterbrained, I'm rambling now.

-pH
 

---

Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 
That most reminded me of the ep. of Scrubs where Michael J. Fox played an OCD surgeon/resident. He said something similar to what you just said, that he used his OCD tendencies to his advantage. Turned his compulsions towards medicine and learned everything there was too learn.

I was almost jealous of his OCD, if that gives you any indication of how compelling he made it.
 

---

Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
 
And yes, pH, I'm glad you've learned to ignore the many well-meaning people who will tell you that you don't need medicine, you don't need treatment, you just need to think yourself out of it. While it's true that training your thoughts into better channels can be somewhat of a help, it's totally only one piece of the picture. How big of a piece varies from one person to the next.

All that "get over it" stuff does is add guilt and self-hatred to other problems as you wonder why it is you can't just get over it, and you mentally kick yourself for being a whiner and a wimp, and so on. That's very much the wrong approach, and will make you worse instead of better, yet well-meaning people who know nothing about what it's like to be you, will tell you that again and again. It's as though an ophthalmologist gave you his own glasses to wear, and then wondered why you still can't see since they have always worked great for him.

Also, many people will decide it's willful on your part, that you enjoy these things and prefer to be this way, for the attention or drama or something. The reason they do this has nothing to do with you and everything to do with them. It's because they are weary of your troubles, (which is understandable) and yet they would feel bad if they abandoned you or lost sympathy for you because of something that's not your fault. Therefore, they decide it's your fault so they can go on to congratulate themselves for disliking you.

These are the sort of patterns that repeat over and over. It's not that anyone is to blame. It's just human nature. Understand and try not to ask people for more than they can give, or want to give.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<hugs>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Tatiana, what I think is funny is that the people who are most likely to claim that I'm using it for attention or something are the people who are least affected by it. There are very, very few people who are even in a position to be the brunt of it: a small handful of friends and my boyfriend. My family doesn't live close enough to see it on a daily basis anymore. I think most of the people who've been negative about it like that are sort of a third party...as in, I have a problem with something, I feel the need to talk about it, this uninvolved friend is available to talk, so I talk to her about a problem that has absolutely nothing to do with her and does not affect her life at all.

The OCD article on Wikipedia (of all things) pointed out that "obsessive-compulsive" is often used to describe someone who is very meticulous but that obsessive-compulsive disorder isn't the same. I think that's a good point, actually. There's a huge difference, and I think when I say I have OCD, a lot of people interpret that as my saying that I'm "obsessive-compulsive" in the "I vaccuum every Saturday" kind of way.

-pH
 

---

Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
 
Wikipedia is wise.

And you're right about the uninvolved friends. Realize that you asked too much (however miniscule) of them and let it go. Most of all, know that it's not a reflection on you at all, but just the way these circumstances play out sometimes.
 

---

Posted by Sharpie (Member # 482) on :
 
My daughter has bipolar disorder and is on Geodon, which helps her a whole whole lot -- until she decides we are evil for making her take it and she palms it and then spirals back to the worst of bipolar.

I'm not sure what my point is here. Maybe it's that, yeah, you have to listen to yourself, but when you have a mental illness, sometimes yourself is telling you very bad things. My girl is 15, so for a few more years, we can tell her lovingly, sweetie, we're not your enemy, we love you so much, and then we wait for the medicine to bring her back to us. And then she is grateful. But not while the disease is winning.

I hope that the Geodon keeps working and doesn't give her bad side effects. It has been a miracle drug for us.

I hate bipolar disorder. I hate it so much.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
How long has she been taking it? And if you don't mind my asking, what's her dose? I have a sneaking suspicion that I was on aon unusually high dose, but I'm not sure. Just wondering.

-pH
 

---

Posted by Sharpie (Member # 482) on :
 
She went up to 80mg last week. She has been on it for a number of months now. It's literally been a lifesaver.

I have been doing a lot of research. I know that it's likely we'll have to be playing this which-drug-is-the-right-one for years to come. It doesn't keep her awake at all, but it does give her what she calls an urge to move, which bugs her. It only lasts a few days whenever the dose increases, thank goodness.

Her doc told me that at her age/size (normal teenager size) she could go to as high as 120 mg, but we are going to try to keep it in the 60 to 80 range for the midterm.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
I was on 180mg. It didn't keep me awake when I was on it; it put me to sleep. Completely knocked me out. Doctor had me taking it in the mornings at first, and I would fall asleep an hour later and was perfectly capable of sleeping until the next morning, when it was time for the next dose. But when I DIDN'T take it, I couldn't sleep. But only if I didn't take it. Which is what scared me so much about it. The "urge to move" side effect is pretty common of drugs within that class, although I think it's considered uncommon for Geodon. But I had that problem as well, at times.

's hard to find the right medication, though. You're lucky to have found one without really bad side effects (I gather) pretty quickly. I had to play musical chairs. But I also had doctors who put me on multiple medications at the same time, which sometimes made it hard to figure out which one was causing what side effect. Does your daughter have a reaction to lithium? I know that's like the "staple" medication for bipolar disorder. I'm not bipolar, but I was on it...for a few days, until it gave me a rash on my chest.

-pH
 

---

Posted by Sharpie (Member # 482) on :
 
No, they didn't start with lithium, oddly enough. I admit, I'm scared of lithium, but they didn't suggest it. I get the feeling that these days they are moving towards starting with geodon or abilify instead. Her doctor is really really cautious -- one at a time, one dose change at a time. Very conservative. She says she can't help us figure out benefits and side effects if she is changing stuff too fast . I ALWAYS leave her office feeling more confident. I think she is magical or something.

180 sounds like a lot, for sure.
 

---

Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
 
Rumor has it there's a stigma attached to Lithium (and it's derivitives) from the 'olde days'. Sometimes it works, though. (it is, i think, one of the only naturally occuring medications for <insert current term here>...)

Thyroid, Liver and Kidney function should get tested about every three months if you're on it - but it's more a precaution than anything.

It's a salt so anyone taking it should drink enough water and also watch their salt intake from other sources...
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
I used to have to have monthly liver function tests, when I was taking....Lord, I think Depakote. But as a result, I'm somewhat less nervous around needles (I used to hide behind furniture to avoid them), and I didn't have to go to school until noon the day of the test!

They took about a billion vials of blood, though.

-pH
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Will someone please wave a magic wand and make me not in love with Michael anymore?

I think God hates me. He's sitting up there laughing at me right now.

-pH
 

---

Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 
Something you'd like to share?
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
I can't get into it right now....I'm too busy crying hysterically. I just don't know if I can be with him anymore. I've told him that I WANT to be with him, but I want him to give me a reason to stay. And I've even told him what to DO to give me a reason to stay. And he hasn't even called me this morning like he promised.

He swears up and down that he loves me and wants to be with me, but then why can't he just do this one, simple thing?

-pH
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
So, we discussed my MBA schedule today. It's possible for me to finish in a year, but I might take a little more time. Also, they won't let me take more than 12 hours in a semester.

I have to decide soon if I want to take a class on business environment in South America. Like, by Monday. The class only meets four times during the semester, but then for a week during spring break, we go down to Brazil and Argentina and talk to companies there. And we don't need to be fluent in Protuguese or Spanish.

I'm also going to be working for twenty hours a week at a graduate assistantship in the small business development center, which should be awesome. It'll be paid...not a lot ($9.50/hour), but it'll be so much fun and a lot of good experience, plus I'll probably intern either over the summer or next fall.

The people all seemed really nice and excited to have me there. Tomorrow there's a barbeque in the evening, but I don't know if I'll be able to go because of the pain in my face (I found it a little difficult to hold a coherent conversation today because of the percocet, but I told them about it). Saturday is orientation.

The only bad part was one professor that kind of hurt my feelings, saying that there were 2 kinds of MBA students, and the ones who go on to the MBA right out of undergrad were usually the ones who didn't want to do any work and who really just wanted to keep partying on their parents' dime. Of course, he prefaced this with an, "Of course, I don't know you, but..." I didn't try to argue with him, but I did mention that I'd gone to school on the Jesuits' dime with my full academic scholarship, not my parents'. Oh, well. Other than that comment, he seemed like a nice man.

And I got to buy school supplies today, which always makes me happy. All the pretty, clean notebooks, and a new backpack to organize (with a laptop pocket)...I'm really excited. Worried, but excited.

-pH
 

---

Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
 
Most of the MBAs I knew at school were the party type, so I can understand where the idea comes from. You seem like the study your butt off type, so I think he'll learn that there are exceptions
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
I have come to a somewhat disturbing realization this weekend, during the course of the fiasco of my "minor" surgery.

Lortab makes me more succeptible to delusions.

Not all the time so much. It just seems to lower the reality threshold. Like, last night I had this terrible religion-related dream which involved very, very vivid sounds of demon screetches clawing at me, evil churches trying to bring people to the devil, and me having DELIBERATE thoughts the whole time, trying to out-think my racing, obsessive-compulsive mind. When I thought I'd managed to drown it out with a hymn, I was suddenly lifted off the ground and started to soar, and I felt this tingling in my legs, and then all of a sudden I just started to drop back down to the ground in front of the good church (there was an evil church and a good church), and then I woke up. And my mind wouldn't stop racing. Not in a normal nightmare kind of way. In a way where I was trying really, really hard to stop the Thoughts that throw me into terrible, horrible spirals. And my legs were still tingling. And for a little bit, I was convinced that my boyfriend was going to say something awful or that he was evil or something.

I had this one dream about a year ago, that I was lying in bed in my dorm room, exactly in the same way I was sleeping, and all of a sudden there was this weird, bald, naked man next to me, and he started telling me that no one would ever take his place, and that I had to listen to him, and he like put his hand on my back, and wherever he touched, pain shot through my body. And when I woke up, it took me a second to realize that it was a dream...because everything looked kind of the same. And my back had cramps where he had touched me in the dream.

Okay, I'm freaking myself out now.

-pH
 

---

Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
 
Don't tell that story at church. I had friends growing up who would have tried to arrange a couple of church members come to your house and pray those demons out of you.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
They already did that once! When I was fourteen...I talked about that on the first page, I think. And they told me to set things on fire, too, if I thought there were demons in them.

I guess the praying didn't work, since I didn't wanna commit arson for the Lord.

-pH
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Goddammit. I had a really long, heartfelt post typed out...and Internet Explorer gave me an error page when I hit post and deleted it.

I'm too tired to go through it again at this moment, but I'll try to retype it after I shower.

-pH
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
This month has been absolutely terrible for me.

Okay, the wisdom teeth spectacular. That's one thing. That was stressful and worrysome and upsetting enough.

Let's also throw in me having to ditch every friend I have in this city aside from my boyfriend. Because aside from some events that went on before the surgery, when I needed to go to the hospital last Sunday, I called everyone I could think of who might be free and left messages. Tearful messages because I was in so much pain, pleading for someone to give me a ride so I could get some medical help.

To date, not one person has even called back to see if I'm alive. No one even bothered to call and make up an excuse.

Since to me, this proves that my "friends" literally do not care if I live or die, I will no longer speak to these individuals. If said individuals ever do try to speak to me again, I'll probably tell them exactly how I feel, but I won't contact them to do so because I think doing that would give them the impression that I could somehow become friends with them again, and I can't.

So no friends. Horrible face infection. Oh, let's throw in some hating. A prime example is that thread fiasco which just had to occur the day before my surgery. Things like that have been happening forever, but they've gotten worse and worse. I've reached a breaking point.

I think it's absolutely sick and disgusting that in our culture, we can't be happy or thankful for what we have. We always have to apologize. If you think you look good and admit it, you're conceited. You have to always talk about how you don't think you're that pretty. If you have nice things, for some reason you just can't be happy and thankful for them. No, no. You have to constantly apologize to people who don't have the same things, as if you took something from them. I'm just sick of feeling like I can't just be happy. That's all I want. I want to be able to be happy with who I am, and that's not acceptable for me to do, socially. And I just can't handle that anymore. Social life is supposed to get better after middle school. At some point, people are supposed to grow up. They never do. Ever. It's always the same catty bullshit. If you see someone who has something you like, tear them down. Screw that. I think I have a nice body, and I think I should be able to admit that. I have really nice obliques which give me a really defined waist, which gives me a curvy figure even though I'm thin. I like having a flat stomach. I like having long legs. I'm sick of feeling like I'm not even allowed to admit that to MYSELF, much less anyone else. I'm sick of feeling like I have to prove myself as a good person, more than anyone else, just because I've been really lucky. And then I get told that I'm spoiled and an ingrate. Well gee, maybe it looks that way because whenever I try to be happy with or grateful for what I have, I'm just cut down again. Even though that's all I want.

For the past month, I've been crying at random intervals. I'm afraid to even go to work right now because I'm afraid I'll burst into tears in public. I'm miserable, and it's because I can't seem to meet anyone who lives here, besides my boyfriend, who doesn't pick on me or who isn't mean to me.

I posted in that money thread about that girl who brags about how thrifty she is. We went to the grocery store yesterday, and she pretty much made me justify every single one of my food purchases. FOOD PURCHASES. It's not her freaking money. I don't need to explain what I do with MY things. And this coming from a girl who, at 18, is $19,000 in debt, not counting student loans, because she thinks it's good to buy things on one of her ten major credit cards. She thinks it's bad to buy things on debit. The only time I ever told her anything about money was when she asked about my credit limit. And then she spazzed about how it was SO LOW, and all of her credit cards have at least a thousand dollar limit, and I need to ask for more credit. How can you be a thrifty person with money you don't even HAVE? How is that USEFUL? Where do you get off giving me ANY advice about when or where or how I spend MY MONEY THAT IS ACTUALLY IN THE BANK?

I have a very long story about that grocery trip which, to me, illustrates the height of money-related tackiness, but I'm already an hour late for work. So that will have to wait.

I guess the general gist of this post is: I'm really depressed and lonely, and I'm sick of feeling like people hate me. Oh yeah, and if you jump on me for this post, I'll delete the damn thread like I did the other one. So there is your warning, in case you want to tell me what a spoiled brat I am for just wanting to avoid being treated like shit by people who've never met me and really don't know jack about what kind of person I am in real life. That is my disclaimer because this whole thread is supposed to be helping me to deal with my emotional/mental problems, and if I start getting flak, it's going to make me feel even lower than I already do. Thanks for making me feel like I even had to PUT this at the end of such a post.

-pH
 

---

Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
 

quote:

---

To date, not one person has even called back to see if I'm alive. No one even bothered to call and make up an excuse.

---

quote:

---

It's always the same catty bullshit.

---

From certain people, yes. The trick is to find and cultivate the not-plastic people as your friends.
 

---

Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
(((((pH)))))
 

---

Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
 
*hug* You've really been through a lot this month. I'm sorry that you've been left feeling lonely and depressed and hated.

It's upsetting that our culture doesn't encourage us to be happy and thankful for who and what we are and to, in turn, rejoice with people who are happy and thankful for who and what they are.

I hope you can find people to rejoice with you rather than tear you down. They are hard to find, I know, but they are out there.
 

---

Posted by Vasslia Cora (Member # 7981) on :
 
Wow, that is a lot for anybody to go through in a month, I am sorry you went through it.
I am sorry your friends were not the friends you thought they were, I have several friends who turned out the same way.
I hope you make some real friends, I don't know any good places to suggest meeting them execpt maybe at a church.

I hope things turn around for you. Your in my prayers.
 

---

Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
 
pH, I hope you find some peace and happiness. I know things have been really hard for [and on] you for a long while.
 

---

Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
 
Some people are pretty messed up, and it's not cool. Nobody should be expected to put up with that much BS.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Thanks for the support, you guys.

I'm just so sad.

Good things did happen today though. Like, I've been really nervous about the whole MBA thing because I really am a lot younger than everyone else. And then I started working with small business development, and...I had this idea to improve, but I thought it was so obvious that they would think it was stupid for to suggest it, or they'd think that...I don't know, I shouldn't be saying anything since I just started.

See, we take all these surveys, but then all we would ever have anyone do is make a count of how many answers for each group came in for each option of the survey, and then we'd just put it in a folder. And I was thinking, we have all this data...why aren't we using it for anything? I mean, I don't know if anyone looks at them again, and they're not in a format that we can really manipulate them to get any real cool info from the data. You know? But then I thought...well, I'm new, and everyone is like ten years older than me, and they probably know what they're doing, and this is such an obvious idea that it's probably stupid.

But today I met one of the lead consultant type guys, and he was just such a nice, friendly man. The other consultant I met, I felt like I had to be so careful about anything I said, like he was always judging and evaluating me about whether or not I was a moron, or something. And this man was just really nice, and he talked about his son, who is I think around my age, and I asked him, "What do we use these for? Why don't we put them into something like SPSS? I mean we have this information, and it's like it's just taking up space, and we could really USE it for something."

It turns out he was a math minor, and so we started talking about the uses of statistics, and he was actually impressed that I'd taken so much stats and took an AP class in high school, and he didn't make me feel like I had to always be on guard to speak in a really, really professional way...like I could just say, "Well, I think this would be a good idea to do." And apparently, I was the first person to say anything about it. And he really liked the idea and was interested in it, and we talked about it for like an hour.

That made me feel really good, like maybe I really am competent. Because I feel like...you know, I guess I seem really young. I mean, I'm twenty-one. So I AM young. But I'm used to people thinking that I'm way older, like when I was seventeen I would discuss things with people, and they'd ask me where I got my degree and later tell me that they thought I was twenty-five or something.

And now I'm finally, actually on a level where...I actually feel like I'm doing things that are interesting and that are actually good to put mental effort into. I actually feel like I'm going to LEARN things for the first time in my life. And that's a really intimidating feeling when you graduated from college early with honors, and you've never actually felt like...wow, I'm in a room with people who are all really smart and know what they're talking about and everything. It's scary.

Anyways. That made me feel really good, and then I ran into a girl with whom I used to be pretty good friends freshman year, except that we drifted apart because her boyfriend was a perv. And we hadn't even really spoken in two years. And I just ran into her in the quad, and we talked for a really long time. It was nice.

Gah, I just wish I didn't still come home and just randomly cry at things.

I'm scared. 'cause you know, being depressed can just last and last. I'm scared it's going to affect my relationship. I've already been freaking out at him for things that...I don't need to be freaking out about. It scared me to realize how long we've been together, just because it's way longer than I've been with anyone else, and we're way closer than I've been with anyone...and that's kind of intimidating too. I mean, I totally want to be with him. It's just scary. I asked him I think yesterday if he's ever been really mad with me, and he said no. Which leads me to believe that maybe he really is a saint because I'm a huge handful, and I know that. And knowing now that I'm really depressed is scary because I'm enough of a handful when I'm relatively okay, depressedness-wise. And if being depressed lasts for months, I feel like he's going to lose patience with me randomly crying and taking things personally and bursting into tears because when I tried to give the old lady at Burger King the little cream packet she was looking for, she chucked it back across the counter. Except I managed to not cry until I got into the car, and that was good because otherwise it would have been even worse.

It's like, she's probably the kind of woman who goes on about how young people are horrible and rude with their rap music and their skateboards. And here I just try to hand her the cream she's spazzing about finding...and she throws it? Apparently I give off bad vibes even to old people who don't know me.

I need a nap or something.

-pH
 

---

Posted by Lissande (Member # 350) on :
 

quote:

---

How can you be a thrifty person with money you don't even HAVE?

---

*wipes eyes* This is the funniest thing I've read today.

I agree with Storm Saxon that you're probably friends with the wrong people. I hope you find some better ones soon. *hug*
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Saying that I'm just friends with the wrong people and should find new ones is easy. Except that I've been trying to meet good people since I was in middle school, and so far, it ain't happening. And I'm also not the kind of person to have a friendship checklist or anything...I don't even go looking for friends. I just meet people. Sometimes we become friends, and sometimes we don't. But considering the sheer volume of people I've met, I really think the world is just seriously lacking in people who aren't selfish and mean.

I mean, not everyone is mean right from the get-go. Some of them, like one of the "friends" who no longer cares if I live or die, will be "friends" for years. We'll go out occasionally and do things, and I'll give them rides to work, they'll offer gas money and I'll refuse, and they seem like generally good people.

Until I need something. Which means that's not really something that I can know...until I need something. I mean, this girl came to help me get some cute summer dresses for my vacation. She didn't want to buy anything; she just wanted to hang out and help me find some cute clothes.

But she didn't want to spend an hour making sure I got to the doctor.

I don't think I go around attracting people that hate me. I just think people, in general, hate me. Because seriously, why would I go become friends with someone if I somehow knew he/she was going to end up screwing me over? I wouldn't do that. I'm not THAT masochistic.

Anyways. I think just saying that I have bad friends and need to find new ones is a cop-out. 'cause I've been doing that. Over and over again. And I'm at the point right now that I feel like I either have to choose to be confident in myself and lonely, or downplay myself and have stupid friends. And on top of that, I don't know if it's worth the effort to befriend anyone else. Nine years of the same crap is really discouraging.

Had really bad racing thoughts last night. I had to take three ativan and have a sip of lortab before I could sleep. It was a really good sleep, and I'm feeling less teary-eyed this morning, but I'm worried that the thought-racing is just going to get worse. And then there's the fact that I'm still really, really tired. I hate being depressed. It's so stupid.

-pH
 

---

Posted by Lissande (Member # 350) on :
 
Sorry, I'll try to avoid sympathetic comments in the future, then.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
I didn't mean that in a snappy way. I'm sorry; I've been snapping at everyone.

I just don't think it's likely that I've been choosing bad friends for years and years, and that that's the real problem.

Which is what frustrates me, I think. I feel like the problem is sort of imbedded in our culture, in the way that certain people are supposed to play down advantages or talents or gifts. And that's what really depresses me. Like, I think I'm a cool person and attractive and stuff, but I feel like in the eyes of the vague, general "American culture," the fact that I think that means I'm bad. And it just seems so...I don't know. Futile.

-pH
 

---

Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
 
I'm sorry you're having a tough time. I'm glad you were able to have a good experience at work. It's a great feeling knowing that you have something special to contribute. (And you do!)

Anyway, I really wanted to post to say that I sometimes don't check my voicemail--for a long time. I especially was guilty of this when I was getting creditors leaving messages all the time. I couldn't take it emotionally. So I missed some calls sometimes. I know it's a longshot...but if one of your friends calls you again, and gives you that reason for not calling and is genuinely sorry, you'll know that it's possible... because some random girl on hatrack was the same way.

And it is hard to make friends. I've lived in this area for 5 years and I have no friends my own age. And the older friends I have I haven't been able to visit with in a long time. So I can empathize.

-Katarain
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
I want to make friends with some of my classmates...but they're all older, and I think they think of me in more of a kid sister kind of way.

One of the other grad assistants seems nice, but he's not around much. The office boy (undergrads usually do the filing work, answer phones, etc.) is an okay guy, but not really someone I want to hang out with. But okay to share an office with and chat, you know?

I think one of my biggest obstacles lately with making friends is that I don't like to be friends with a group of people. I like to be friends with individuals. I feel like there's too much crap that goes on in a group, too much backstabbing and infighting, and I'm not really into that. I mean, I don't mind if my friends and I all hang out as a group. But I don't want to be in one of those "friends groups." If that makes sense. So when I befriend someone who is in a group of friends, I sometimes feel left out because they'll forget to ask me if I want to tag along on Friday night, or all they ever talk about is the escapades of their group of friends. And that makes me sad. Sometimes I feel like I'm the friend no one remembers they have until they really need something.

-pH
 

---

Posted by Lissande (Member # 350) on :
 
Have to run but quickly...

It's ok, I get snappy pretty often too.

I do think that whether you're doing something wrong or using an inadequate standard is a fair question to raise when you do something with same method (or lack of method) for years and get the same results. Of course, this is coming from a girl who'd rather have no friends than so-so friends, and I know not everyone has to be like me. Basically I guess my comment was meant to reflect that if I were in your situation, I'd be implementing some (different) friendship standards. I do believe that there really are people out there who will like you for you and not resent you for what you have.
 

---

Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by pH:
I want to make friends with some of my classmates...but they're all older, and I think they think of me in more of a kid sister kind of way.

---

So what? I've had (still do!) some wonderful friendships that started this way.
 

---

Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
 
I have friends that are decades younger, and older, than me. My brother is the same way. It's all part of gaming culture, I think, where you meet people from all walks of life.

All this is to say that just because someone is older doesn't mean they can't be your friend.

Also, it's been said that there are different kinds of friends. There are dancing friends, talking friends, drinking friends, and friends that help you bury the body. So, to kind of hedge what I said before, just because you now know that people you thought were your friends aren't the best kind of people, this doesn't mean you can't still enjoy their company for what they have to give while you meet more quality people.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
I guess what bothers me a lot is the idea that if someone is having social issues, the problem is really in them. Because I don't think I have a problem, and I don't think it's my fault that people are assholes and like to be mean to me. I mean, even Hatrack is full of assholes who like to be mean to me, so it can't be that I just only go out of my way to befriend people who are going to be mean to me.

I think it's our culture that's screwed up more than me. But that's what makes this situation feel so hopeless.

I tried to call my therapist yesterday when I was crying and having another breakdown. I told the receptionist it was really important for me to talk to her. And then I HEARD said therapist in the background telling her receptionist to say that she wasn't available and for me to call back at four.

I have an appointment with her at three. I'm going to pay the balance on my bill and tell her she's fired. She doesn't know why I called yesterday, and I NEVER call there and say "I really, really need to speak to my therapist." This same therapist has interrupted sessions with me because her cell rang. And she doesn't know why I called! Maybe I was sitting on the couch with a gun to my head! I wasn't, but that doesn't make her actions any more irresponsible.

Now I need a new therapist. Except whenever I try to call people's offices, just random doctors out of the phone book, I get scared that the receptionists are being mean to me, and I say I have the wrong number and hang up. Then I cry.

-pH
 

---

Posted by Vasslia Cora (Member # 7981) on :
 
Ugh, receptionists can be way too full of themselves. I would much rather deal with doctor or whoever I am trying to get an appointment with.
 

---

Posted by Zeugma (Member # 6636) on :
 
Okay, look, I was feeling like this about 2 weeks ago, totally overwhelmed with stress and angry at the world, crying randomly, just miserable. I don't know what would help you, and I don't want to offer advice when I don't know you very well, but I hope that you find whatever it is that's going to make you feel better. For me it was rediscovering faith in the religion I grew up with as a kid and talking to the church's version of a therapist, that was the kick in the pants I needed to remember to see the world in a more positive light... but obviously that's not for everyone.

It does sound like you're in a very very negative place right now, and whatever you can do to shift that paradigm would be a great thing, be it therapy or religion or skydiving or hopping in the car and taking a long road trip.... whatever.

We care about you, pH, and want you to be happy. And I bet we're not the only ones.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
So I had an appointment with the therapist today. And I told her that I was really upset that she had pretty much ignored me, blah blah.

She decided, and this is not me inferring anything, this is what she said, to tell me...after she's spent all the time acting supportive....that I'm a terrible person, I'm rude to everyone, I'm abusive to my boyfriend, and people don't like me because I'm a spoiled brat, and so on and so forth. She called me NAMES. Oh, and she based the claim that I'm abusive to my boyfriend based on a phone conversation of which she overheard MY side and didn't know what the conversation was about, and based on the hour we spent with her. Apparently I was abusive and a psycho controlling bitch to him then. I don't remember that. I remember us sitting there holding hands, and me crying a little bit and saying, "Such and such upsets me," and us working it out. I don't remember calling him names. I don't remember doing ANYTHING abusive, and he doesn't think he's being abused, AND he's a very confident person and wouldn't stand for it if I was treating him badly. I love him, and I do my best to be the best girlfriend I can. The point is. She was horrible to me and called me names and pretty much stabbed me in the back. Which is, aside from being a horrible thing to do, unprofessional.

I think I deserve to file a complaint about that. Not to SUE her. To file a complaint with whomever licenses her to practice in this state. I know they probably won't DO anything about it, but I want to file one anyway.

-pH
 

---

Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
I don't think trying to get her in trouble is going to prove she was wrong for calling you spoiled.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Well good. It's good to know that if someone calls me spoiled, I can't file a complaint about her utterly unprofessional behavior.

This is the same shit I was talking about happening on Hatrack. You call me a spoiled brat, and if I defend myself, apparently I AM a spoiled brat.

Apparently, "spoiled" is the one insult no one can ever defend themselves against. If you call someone spoiled, they are not allowed to say or do anything about it, including being upset about it, or else they are, indeed, spoiled.

What a bullshit attitude.

-pH
 

---

Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
pH, I don't know if the therapists behavior was reasonable or not. I wasn't there.

However, I would strongly recommend that you wait to make a decision about whether to file a complaint until you are no longer this upset. Perhaps you need to find a different therapist to get to that place; maybe a religious counselor (as Zeugma alluded to) might be better.

But I think you are much better off waiting until you are calm and fully rational (and given the upsetting things that have been happening to you lately, it makes perfect sense that you would not be either of those things at the moment) before making that decision -- EVEN IF you do decide to file the report. Which is also less likely to be dismissed if it sounds calm, neh?
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
I fired her. I decided a month ago that I didn't think she was the therapist for me, and this was the last straw.

I'm so freaking upset that all anyone can say is oh, calm down.

Great.

My therapist, who pretended she was supportive of me, just insulted me and stabbed me in the back. I don't think it's reasonable to be openly insulting of your clients for the sole purpose of making them feel bad, which is what she was clearly doing by many of the things that she said.

For crying out loud. Good. Now my therapist hates me too. Further proof that the entire world does not want me to be here.

I told my shrink about it. He WORKS with her, and he thought she was out of line and had no idea why she would ever say something like that.

-pH
 

---

Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
If it were true (I put the "if" there), how do you think the therapist should handle it? Is it NEVER true? Are therapists NEVER allowed to tell their clients something that may be hard to hear? Do you think a theraptist should be reprimanded every time they tell a client something the client didn't want to hear?

These are serious questions - I have no idea how therapists should handle it. I'd hate to be in that position, though.

This sounds like lese majesty - outrage that someone would dare say something like that to you and you want to make sure they'll regret it. Maybe that's not the productive thing to take away from that session.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by katharina:
If it were true (I put the "if" there), how do you think the therapist should handle it? Is it NEVER true? Are therapists NEVER allowed to tell their clients something that may be hard to hear? Do you think a theraptist should be reprimanded every time they tell a client something the client didn't want to hear?

This sounds like lese majesty - outrage that someone would dare say something like that to you and you want to make sure they'll regret it. Maybe that's not the productive thing to take away from that session.

---

quote:

---

your anger and outrage is hurting you more than anything you can do to her.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by BannaOj:

quote:

---

your anger and outrage is hurting you more than anything you can do to her.

---

---

I'm not angry angry. I'm hurt angry. How am I supposed to talk to another therapist? Apparently, therapists store up everything you tell them and use it to paint the worst possible picture of you. Like me forgetting appointments. Instead of taking that as a possible indicator of depression, she assumed automatically that it meant that I was irresponsible and show up late for everything all the time and am bad with time management. It was when she said that, a month or more ago, that I decided that I didn't want to see her anymore.

But it's like...she took every single thing about me and decided it meant the worst thing possible. Instead of being like okay, maybe she's depressed, maybe she needs help.

No, instead, I'm a bad person.

-pH
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
AJ, it's funny that you say that...when I was in high school, my mom would buy me cheap dishware from the thrift store so that I could smash it.

...I think I have a carton of almost expired eggs...but where can I throw them that I won't make a mess for others? Hmmmmm....

-pH
 

---

Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
 
I always thought someone could make a fortune by opening a store of random things (at an elevated cost) with a backroom where you could safely destroy whatever you bought. I would have coughed up some bucks for a bat and permission to smash things.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Shanna, I agree....we're both in New Orleans...I smell an enterprise.

We could write a book about the smashing method of therapy. Maybe it would be like one of those crazy fad books. We could make millions!

-pH
 

---

Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Therapists are human too and are as likely to need therapy themselves as anyone else. Heck, maybe more. You are in New Orleans and said therapist probably has a lot of other stressors in their life even as your disruption last year didn't help your life either.

I'm *not* saying what she did was right. I'm saying it was human. Should she not be a therapist, quite possibly. A lot of therapists aren't actually *good* therapists because they can't dissociate their own issues from their clients.

But there are good therapists out there too. It doesn't sound like the relationship and trust level had progressed to the point where she could have said something that made you angry, and after you got over the anger you'd consider what she'd said.

I got very angry at my therapist once. Really steamed. But she'd done it on purpose, to make me take a better look at myself. Even though I was steamed, I did go back to my next session because I figured I had to give her a chance, and I wanted to prove her wrong. But we'd been in a therapy relationship for almost a year at that point. So I went back.

And what she'd done was the thing I needed at the time. Even the anger at her helped me feel things that I'd been blocking off in my past.

I *don't* think that is what this person did to you. But there are good ones out there, so don't give up. Talk to the doc you do trust and ask him what you should do...

AJ
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
I don't know. I just feel like...I've been so upset lately for people doing EXACTLY what she did.

My parents ended up calling my shrink because they were afraid I was going to hurt myself, and he called me again, and now I'm going to see him tomorrow.

I just wish he didn't work in the same office as she does.

-pH
 

---

Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Shanna:
I always thought someone could make a fortune by opening a store of random things (at an elevated cost) with a backroom where you could safely destroy whatever you bought. I would have coughed up some bucks for a bat and permission to smash things.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by BannaOj:
You've seen Tomb Raider right? I love when the UPS guy walks in while they are sweeping up the debris and Angelina Jolie goes "I had such a frightful headache last night" or something like that...

AJ

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Shanna:
I always thought someone could make a fortune by opening a store of random things (at an elevated cost) with a backroom where you could safely destroy whatever you bought. I would have coughed up some bucks for a bat and permission to smash things.

---

Actually, if I remember correctly, in Japan there are restaurants that have areas set aside so people can throw dishware. (There sell the dishware) I always thought it would be a good business.
 

---

Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
 
Pearce, honey, I'm just now getting to this thread. You do still have my e-mail and phone number, yes? Please feel free to use them if you want to talk.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Thanks. I do still have your number; I actually almost called you yesterday.

-pH
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Gah. Cheapness obsessed girl is on the phone with a guy who offered us jobs...but she won't let me talk to him AND she won't tell him that I already HAVE a college degree and am about to be an MBA.

So apparently now he only wants to hire her. Even though she has no degree AND has a wonky class schedule and can't even work four-hour blocks, much less a whole day. Because she's talking shit.

Backstabbing bitches.

She's here in my office. And I want to kick her.

Wait until she gets off the phone...

-pH
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
OH MY HOLY CRAP.

The owner of the indie label I interned with, the one who would've hired me if he had the money, just called the office.

I am SO asking to be put on this project. Haha, I was like, now we can work together, and you don't have to worry about me not getting paid!

-pH
 

---

Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
 
It sounds like a good opportunity, pH. Great that you have some good news.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
I saw the shrink. He tried to sit the therapist and me down. Before she came in, I told him that she was going to claim that she didn't say a lot of these things and was going to say that I was just "confused" because that's what people do when they know that sometimes reality gets weird for me.

And that's exactly what she did. I told her to leave because I found it offensive that she'd said that, and she sat there and kept talking. And then told me again all about how I just hear these things inside my head. To which I said, "No! Leave! Leave leave leave leave..." until she finally left.

He's putting me on a really low dose of seroquel to take at night to help me sleep. Also, he thinks I'm more terrified than depressed, and the seroquel should help the fear.

I have more to say, but I'm not sure how to word it.

-pH
 

---

Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by pH:
Thanks. I do still have your number; I actually almost called you yesterday.

-pH

---

It is a standing offer.
 

---

Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
*is concerned* I hope the doc can help you out.

AJ
 

---

Posted by Sharpie (Member # 482) on :
 
I have heard some good things about seroquel recently. Not that medicines will change other people's behavior, but certainly getting some sleep and feeling better physically will help strengthen your defenses, ya know?

Out here rooting for you...
 

---

Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
 
pH, I'm so sorry these things are happening to you. You don't deserve this kind of treatment of these problems.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
It's weird; I always find psychiatrists to be more understanding than therapists.

I think one of the things is that people who know that I have trouble with what's "real" on occasion will automatically assume that I'm paranoid or deluded...when in reality, the things that confuse me are more like...a few nights ago, when I had a nightmare, woke up, and for about thirty seconds was convinced that my boyfriend (who was trying to make me feel better) was an agent of the devil. Then I snapped out of it and was like, "What the hell am I thinking?!"

I don't get confused about what people actually say. In fact I'm very perceptive. Like, when I was in the looney bin, I actually wanted to go there for help as long as I was there, but I picked up the first night I was there that it wasn't really about getting help since it was a short-term facility. It was more about going to the groups and saying the right things and acting like you were okay so that they would let you go. Not about actually getting HELP. It was a jump-through-hoops game. Kind of a holding tank to hope that you'll not be suicidal by the end of the week so they can let you go in good conscience, and if you go back to whatever things you were doing before, at least they "tried."

Unfortunately, I made the mistake of TELLING my former psychiatrist that. And he decided that I was paranoid.

I wasn't, though. I was just perceptive.

You know, my abusive ex had me convinced that I never knew what was real. So whenever I confronted him about something he'd said or done, he would deny it and say that I was just confused. I fell for it SO many times, too. It's sad.

-pH
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Last night, for a little while, I was afraid of my television. I thought it was going to hurt me, and I didn't want to turn it off because it seemed eerier when it wasn't making noise.

Losing my mind.

-pH
 

---

Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
 
I've been away from this thread for the past few days, and am just catching up. I know that it is popular wisdom to take out aggression in a safe way by getting violent with inanimate things, but I have never seen this to be helpful for either me or other folk. For me, I've found that it just escalates aggressive feelings, and I have seen it make people with violent feelings to feel more violent and riled up. For me, I find that calming activities cause the aggression to recede into a size more easily handled. Rage has a way of escalating -- I've seen it first-hand -- and feeding it by sanctioning minor property damage can make it grow to cause some non-sanctioned property or personal damage.

Of course, not all folk are the same, and maybe your situation and experience is different than mine, but I'd ask you to be wary of such advice.

That said, I hope all turns out better for you.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Apparently, I didn't hang up on all the psychologists' offices I called last week.

Apparently, the one that I didn't hang up on just happened to be an OCD specialist, which I learned when she called me back today. She also used to work for my psychiatrist.

And her office is around the corner from his.

That is so weird. Anyways, I told her the situation, and she was very nice and talked to me for a while about herself and asked me questions about what I needed. So I decided to make an appointment for Monday. I hope this goes well. I've been dangerously spazzy for the past few days.

-pH
 

---

Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
 
Good. I hope you find what you need.
 

---

Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
 
Good luck. I'm hoping that all goes well for you.
 

---

Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
Glad to hear it, pH!
 

---

Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
 
Good luck with the new psychologist, pH! I've followed this thread but don't think I've posted on it.
 

---

Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
Good luck!
 

---

Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
 
I don't think I've posted here either, but I've been reading. This seems like a nice bit of serendipity - good luck!
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
WHY THE HELL CAN I NOT JUST HAVE A GOOD DAY?

I was happy today.

Things were going well. And the advanced finance professor was trying to work out a way for me to retake the waiver to get into his class. And I went to his class tonight, and I totally understood everything that was going on even though I've missed like five weeks.

And then I check my email tonight, and it turns out that the MBA director sent me an email this afternoon. And she says no, no one can help me get into the class, not even the professor or herself.

And now I'm upset again.

Dammit. I have so much stuff to do tonight. And now I can't focus on any of it.

-pH
 

---

Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 
Is it a bad day if everything doesn't go perfectly? Not trying to be disagreeable, but that actually sounds like a pretty good day by my standards. If I expected every day to be perfect, I'd be disappointed a lot.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Yes, it's a bad day if one large, catastrophic thing happens.

Not getting into this class means I can't possibly finish my MBA until next December, which will drive me up a wall if only because I'd like to have the option to graduate in one calendar year. It also means that I'm now terrified that I've pissed off the faculty/staff, even though it wasn't my idea to try to get back into the class.

-pH
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Feh. Apparently, I'm being used as a pawn in some kind of bureaucratic power struggle, or something.

At least I'm doing okay with my schoolwork, sort of. Except for this one class that I need to catch up on tonight or tomorrow.

-pH
 

---

Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 
Being a pawn sucks. Believe me, I know from experience.

This one time, in Maine . . . oh, wait.

I guess being used as a prawn is something totally different.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
I'm so overwhelmed right now.

Great things are happening for me at school, things which could be a great help to me in the future, but I'm completely terrified of them. I feel like no one is ever going to take me seriously. I spend the entire day feeling insecure about my ideas or my intelligence or whatever, and then when I get home I cry. And then I worry about people not really giving a crap about me, like my boyfriend.

And the Grudge 2 trailer came on tv and scared the crap out of me even though I've watched it a bunch of times. It felt more REAL this time. Now I'm scared.

-pH
 

---

Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
 
Why did the trailer scare you now and not before? Your state of mind when you saw it?
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
I have no idea! I was just kind of relaxing on the couch, pretty much the same as I have been every time I see that trailer, and for some reason this time I believed it more.

This is how I explained my reality issues to my boyfriend, and I think maybe it'll be useful here, too:

You know when you're a little kid, and you're afraid of the Boogeyman, or a monster under your bed, or vampires, or whatever it is? And you're honestly afraid of it? That's how it feels for me. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that's how it feels for most people with this issue. It's not like I'm a raving lunatic...I just get scared of various Boogeymen from time to time.

-pH
 

---

Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
 
There's really no reason on earth for those damn Grudge style movies to exist. Those are just F-ing CREEPY!
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
So, some really, really bad things happened this weekend, but I'm in a good mood now, so it's time for GOOD NEWS, EVERYONE!

The OCD specialist was absolutely awesome. I like her a lot. It's funny though; her office has very low ceilings (at least, I think they're low...they're probably 10' or something), so when I went, I felt VERY VERY TALL. And I'm a foot taller than her, too. I'm seeing her again next Tuesday.

Also, the school decided to credit me for the scholarship money I didn't use. They're not going to flat-out write me a check, and they're not giving me the full amount of a semester of undergraduate tuition, but they're crediting my account the cost of this semester. A semester of grad school on the Jesuits' dollar! YAY!

Which means I might be able to afford some stuff now. Like central air and new tires and bodywork for my car.

-pH
 

---

Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
Great news, pH!
 

---

Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
 
I'm glad to see good news for you, pH.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
My mom got my diploma in the mail today. I graduated with honors.

-pH
 

---

Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
 
Mazel Tov!
 

---

Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
 
Congrats!! You have been overdue for good news for a while.
 

---

Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
Very, very cool. Thanks for letting us know that things are going well.
 

---

Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 
Good deal. Glad things are looking up, at least somewhat.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
So although I had to work way longer than I was supposed to today, I did get a call from one of the counselors, asking my advice/opinion on some music industry-related things.

It's so weird. Apparently, I actually get to be the EXPERT. Which feels strange because it all comes pretty easily to me.

Anyways, hopefully I can start working with my first client soon.

-pH
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
People frustrate me.

There's this girl who lives in the house next door to my building who seemed really cool. I met her boyfriend before her; he and I went to the movies, and then when I got sick and had to go to the hospital and was all shot up with phenergan, he drove me. And she came along when he picked me up, which is how I met her.

So a few weeks ago, she and I hung out. We seemed to get along really well, y'know? And she met my boyfriend. Except that since then, she hasn't even bothered to return a text message. She knows I read her blog, and she's made these blog posts about how much it annoys her that no one ever calls to talk to her.

And I read it, and I'm thinking, I've done that. Many times. But apparently I am no one because she never responds to any of my attempts to contact her.

It upsets me. Why can't people just me up-front and direct? I was talking with my new therapist about this...I have a tendency and a desire to be really honest and direct with people, but it seems like every time I am, they don't believe me, perhaps because it's not too common a trait among 21-year-old women.

I just get so annoyed by feeling like I have to decode what everyone says to me. And what they say in action form vs. what they say in word form. I don't get it. I really don't get it at all. I feel like I don't know how to communicate with anyone, even though my whole communication method is, "Let's put all our cards on the table and see where we stand."

-pH
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
You guys need to help me.

I've been feeling really drawn towards being involved with a specific faith once more. Particularly, I've been feeling that I need to attend a Friends (Quakers) meeting.

I had a dream earlier this week when I was half awake and half asleep.

I really, really want to go to the meeting tomorrow, but every time I say that I end up chickening out. I want someone to come with me, but I don't know anyone who'd be willing to do so. So I really need to just suck it up and go, but I'm nervous.

Make me go.

-pH
 

---

Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
Go. It's a valuable experience, especially if you've never been to a meeting of Friends before.
 

---

Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
 
I second that.

I've only been to one meeting, but my impression was that Friends' are allergic to proselytizing, but very aware that they need more people. So, at worst you'll sit in silence for an hour, get to talk to some really friendly people afterwards, who won't say it directly, but will make it very clear that you are welcome to come any time you like.

Friends put talking about things front and center in their faith, so I think you'll fit right in if you go.

The thing that shocked me the most about the Friends' service was how, how to say this, plainly dressed all the attendants were. I mean, like, flip-flops, t-shirts, jeans, that kind of thing.

You can impress the Friends by knowing something about George Fox.

I need to go visit the Friends again. Thanks for reminding me, pH.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
I've gone to one meeting before, over a year ago, and I liked it a lot. I've just been too shy to go back.

-pH
 

---

Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
Meetings are on Sundays? GO! Today!
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
I missed the meeting.

But my boyfriend called, and now he wants to go as well. Which will make it easier. It just sucks that he'll be a bit late for work and will have to leave the second the meeting ends.

-pH
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
I'm having a heart attack because the sexual harassment plumbers moved my bed and didn't move it back like I asked. So now my bed is in the wrong place and DIRTY, and I can't sleep in it. So I'm sleeping on the sofabed, which is dirty as well, but not as dirty as the bed because I can't really explain why since the plumbers sat there but I'm not going to think about it too hard so that I don't end up sleeping on the floor.

*deep breath*

I found out why our director has been kind of hard on me. Turns out, the other grad student is leaving in December. Which leaves me as The Boss(tm), or the closest thing to a boss around here. And I didn't really get any training in anything because of our being so understaffed, so...

Someone come fix my bed.

-pH
 

---

Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 

quote:

---

Someone come fix my bed.

---

Can you do a Mae West voice?
 

---

Posted by Theaca (Member # 8325) on :
 
Why can't you fix the bed?
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
It's too heavy for me to move. Sometimes I can halfway kind of use all my weight to pull it away from the wall when I need to get to something, but I have a lot of trouble moving it back. I don' tthink it's really the weight so much as the feet getting stuck on the carpet. But then I get all frustrated and upset becuase it's out of place and I can't fix it...I threw a crazy fit last night over that. And I just get really distraught. Like if I'm trying to find something and it's been moved, I have panic attacks sometimes. And the thing is, I need to organize my bedroom, but I can't until the bed is back where it needs to be because otherwise all organization will be in vain.

Edit: I'm realizing that it's easier to pull than to push simply because of the angle of the force on the feet of the bed. So I probably can't push the bed back to where it needs to be (in a corner), which means I at least need another person to help lift it up and move it.

-pH
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
I'm supposed to start doing exposure stuff this week. Where you pick out the underlying fear and the things that make you anxious about that fear, and you work your way up from the smallest anxiety to the biggest.

This week: go to a drugstore and look at a baby congratulations card while breathing normally. And I can't do any rituals related to it. Or I have to try. I'm allowed to do tapping rituals, but nothing else, and only if I absolutely have to.

I'm very nervous about this whole thing. But I kind of have to do it; there's a woman in my class who's very pregnant to the point that I can no longer just pretend that she's overweight. Being in the same room as her is torture. Since I have the day off work and am sick, I've decided to spend the day cleaning and organizing. The front room is looking much better. My room is a disaster area.

On the plus side, my boyfriend fixed my bed for me last night, so I can sleep in it again. Although I really need to sort my clothes.

Anyways, I guess now this is going to turn into the "pH tries exposure therapy and subsequently has eight heart attacks" thread. What I'm most worried about is that I'm just going to end up replacing one ritual with another. That would be terrible and counterproductive, but I don't know how to stop it.

-pH
 

---

Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
 
Good luck with that. I'm pulling for you.
 

---

Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
Good luck!
 

---

Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
You know that the zombies are going to smell you coming a mile away with your brains exposed that way.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
My third ulcer!

Well, technically none of them were ever diagnosed as ulcers because I wouldn't let anyone do exploratory surgery for the first one. That was three years ago. I started vomiting uncontrollably, so they took me to the ER and gave me lots of delicious intravenous drugs and sent me home with ultracet and anti-nausea meds and muscle relaxants.

Then in April, something similar happened, and I ended up drinking a lot of lidocaine. The urgent care clinic makes this lidocaine cocktail with Mylanta and painkillers and stuff, and it tastes weird but feels so good. They gave me Nexium.

Well, I threw up in the arts and crafts store last week, neon yellow vomit. I thought it was just stomach upset from the antibiotic they gave me for my ear infection, but the stomach feeling is still here...the same feeling as before, kind of an eating feeling all the time in my stomach, and a pain sort of in the spot where my rib cage divides. I periodically get these horrible waves of nausea, but so far I haven't thrown up again.

I read somewhere that this sort of thing really isn't ever caused by stress, but I don't know if I believe that.

-pH
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
My therapist said something this week that made me notice a lot of thngs. Like how I've decorated my house for an eight-year-old. I mean, it's all bright colors and cheerful things...and a gumball machine.....and I have like ten stuffed animals, mostly in my bed. And I have the bajillion beanie babies that Michael gave me to keep me company after my surgery all lined up on top of the kitchen cabinet.

And I might not be able to pick up on a lot of social/nonverbal cues, apparently. Which might be part of the reason I have no friends here. That makes me really sad.

I'm decorating my house for the holidays. Well, starting to. I bought one of those lit garlands and some kitchen utensil stick-on hooks and hung it up over a doorway to test and see if the hooks will be a good thing to use. If they hold, I'm going to plug a bunch of garlands together and hang them around the living room.

But for some reason now, whenever new people set foot in my house, I'm convinced they have terrible diseases and are going to spread germs all over my things. *sigh*

On the plus side, I did manage to walk through the baby-spawn aisle at the drugstore a few times without doing any rituals!

That is all.

-pH
 

---

Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
 
Hey ph.

Just noticed this thread, what with my infrequent hatrack visits.

Congrats on the graduation I didn't realize you had progressed that far, but I guess thats what comes of getting older... you move on to the next stage of your life.

Anyrate, just wanted to say I still love ya babe and looks like you are doing really well. Keep up the good work.
 

---

Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by pH:
Which might be part of the reason I have no friends here.

---

You think you have no friends here? I beg to differ.

And good job on the ritual-free baby spawn thing. I'm still pulling for you.
 

---

Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
 
I think she means no friends where she lives.

I KNOW she has friends on hatrack. And she knows it, too. And she knows that I know that she knows. And now i'm ridiculous.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Yes, all of my friends are out of town friends that I have contact with 95% of the time through the Internet or phone.

HERE (locally) though, I don't have any trouble meeting people, but I have trouble keeping people around, which is a pattern that's really been going on for my entire life. People seem to like me more when they live far away and don't see me very often. Like Paulish, except he just likes me because I'm hawt. I mean, I have good friends in the music industry...who are only in town maybe a couple of times a year. My closest female friend right now lives in Tampa. We talk on the phone most nights, but we've really only hung out in person once.

-pH
 

---

Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
 
Well, its not MY fault I don't see you very often.


You didn't come to school in boston.
 

---

Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by pH:
Then in April, something similar happened, and I ended up drinking a lot of lidocaine. The urgent care clinic makes this lidocaine cocktail with Mylanta and painkillers and stuff, and it tastes weird but feels so good.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Paul Goldner:
Well, its not MY fault I don't see you very often.


You didn't come to school in boston.

---

Why do I always have to come see YOU? The gentleman calls on the lady, and I AM A LADY! *sticks nose in air*

-pH
 

---

Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
 
Perhaps she has spent the past few years building up immunity to iocaine powder.
 

---

Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
Hmmm, I thought this was going to be a thread about that new show 3lbs. Oh well???
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
I found out that my parents haven't paid my doctor in over a month. I found this out when my doctor called to ask for his money.

Now, let me explain this: I am incapable of opening bills. Even if I already know it's a regular bill, and I know how much it's going to be, and I know it's not a big deal, I can't open them. I have anxiety attacks when I open bills. There is a huge box of unopened bills sitting next to my couch.

So anyways, now my parents are all angry about me calling them telling them that they owe the doctor money, and the doctor is wanting his money, and I'm stuck in the middle because it isn't my money to pay. And I realized that I'm going to be a burden on the people around me for the rest of my life, and that makes me so sad. I mean, if I end up with someone, he's going to have to deal with my anxiety attacks and help me with life and help pay my doctors. And I don't even know if I'll ever be able to have kids, and even if I did I wouldn't be able to take care of them anyway. And it's just really depressing. I'm never going to be cured. But then I start thinking well, they do brain surgery for this. But it's experimental and permanent. And maybe I'd be a compeltely different person or a stupid person. But then I think, maybe that would be better than carrying around all this guilt about what a leech I am. In conclusion, my life really sucks right now.

-pH
 

---

Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
*hug*
 

---

Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
 
The other alternative is to become massively rich, and hire someone to open your bills for you, as well as take care of all those other little details. That way you don't have to leech off your SO or your parents.
 

---

Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 

quote:

---

I realized that I'm going to be a burden on the people around me for the rest of my life, and that makes me so sad. I mean, if I end up with someone, he's going to have to deal with my anxiety attacks and help me with life and help pay my doctors. And I don't even know if I'll ever be able to have kids, and even if I did I wouldn't be able to take care of them anyway. And it's just really depressing. I'm never going to be cured. But then I start thinking well, they do brain surgery for this. But it's experimental and permanent. And maybe I'd be a compeltely different person or a stupid person. But then I think, maybe that would be better than carrying around all this guilt about what a leech I am. In conclusion, my life really sucks right now.

---

Welcome to the club.

I feel like crap a huge percentage of the time. Whether it's nausea & vomiting, cramps, joint pain, back pain, migraines, headaches, periods, or whatever, I'm constantly feeling like crap. I can't work anymore at any regular job because I feel too ill. I can't earn a living - I'm not capable at the moment. I can't have children, either. I'm at least a little bit crazy from all my childhood crap, but we won't go there. I'm fat. I'm not exactly any kind of prize, ya know?

But then Fahim came along and fell in love with me anyway, and even after I tell him all that stuff, he still wants to marry me. And now, three years later, he still hasn't changed his mind and loves me even more than before, and he still doesn't care if I never bring a penny into our family financial pot.

It actually is possible to be that screwed up and that damaged and still have love and respect and kindness from a spouse who'll stand by you. And don't tell me that you're worse than me - you're not. You may be worse in some areas, but I'm worse in others. We're all flawed. Every single human is flawed, no exceptions.

The trick to happiness in marriage (or any other long-term relationship) isn't in finding the perfect person - there's no such thing. The trick is finding the perfect person for you, the person who's package of strengths & weaknesses you can handle the best without it sending you over the edge.

Fahim's not perfect. He's a bit nuts himself. He's antisocial and a homebody and he's blunt and sarcastic and he's got all sorts of other flaws. BUT his flaws are compatible with me and don't bother me. I can handle his particular package of screwed-up-ness, just like he can handle mine. And his particular package of talents & strength & gifts, including his humour and sensitivity and kindness are perfect for me. What he sees in me, I have no idea. But my particular package is perfect for him, despite me thinking that no one would ever want me.

See, we both think we won. We both think we got the prize. That, despite all of our own faults.

Fahim and I are not unique in this, not by a long shot.

So, as hard as I know this is, relax and don't worry so much. It'll work out somehow.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
quid, your post was really encouraging to me.

And you know, I thought I'd found someone I could really talk to about things. But then during this past week, you know, Michael's been wanting me to talk more about my abusive ex and about OCD. And then he avoided the moving in subject for a few days, and finally last night he said that he doesn't think I'm ready to live with someone. And I get the impression that he thinks that because I still worry that he's going to move in here and turn mean, like my ex did when I let him stay with me white he was looking for a place when he moved here.

And now I feel like I can't trust him with those sort of things anymore. You know, just because I have a fear about something doesn't mean I'm not over the abuse. Yeah, it still has an effect on me. But it only effects me to the extent that I'm kind of jittery about this whole him moving in thing, and as a result, I kind of just want him to hurry up and do it, like ripping a band-aid off. It's not like I hate all men or think all men secretly want to beat women or even think HE wants to hurt me. And now he's worrying because he doesn't understand OCD either.

And I wish I'd never told him about either of those things. I feel a little betrayed that instead of just talking to me about his concerns, he went off and made a judgment about things that I'd told him and didn't even involve me. I thought we were to the point that...you know, that I could tell him things. I mean, we've been together for almost a year.

There's just all this pressure building up inside of me. I'm in so much pain inside, and now I don't feel like I can ever talk about it again with the person I love. I feel like I'm being suffocated by everything around me. I don't want him to think I'm a mental patient. I'm not crazy I'm not. I'm sick of everyone giving me That Look when I tell them about it, and I thought he would never be that way...I mean, he's known I have OCD since...we started seeing each other, and he's always been so patient...

Except the last thing he said when we spoke last night was that he would move in sometime this week. So now I don't know what's happening. Maybe he just said that so I wouldn't be so sad. But I feel like I've been punched in the chest.

Edit: That was a really weird typo. Thanks, crappy wireless keyboard.

-pH

[ December 17, 2006, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: pH ]
 

---

Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
 
The people who love you don't consider a burden a burden.

Does that make sense?

Also, I don't know if this has already been brought up, but have you tried giving therapy (or, say, conversation) to people like yourself, only younger. Teens, say. I know don't know whether you could find people or would feel comfortable, but it's just a suggestion.
 

---

Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
 
Maybe thinking of this development a desensitization process to difficulties that arise with living with someone would be a helpful perspective. He wasn't going to move in at the planned time, and now you are "feeling a real urge to inflict pain upon [your]self," right? But you aren't going through with that, and so you are dealing with the pain in other ways.

This pain most likely would have come up in trying to work through living together issues anyway, so it is good to develop a pattern and habits for dealing wiht it constructively, as you are. By delaying the move-in, you give yourself a chance to work with your therapist and develop healthy ways of dealing with those sorts of stresses. That's actually quite cool.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
It's so not cool. It means that when I try to talk to him about things, he decides that I'm incapable of making decisions for myself or having rational discussions about issues, so instead he makes the decision for both of us. That's crap.

-pH
 

---

Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
 
pH, now in rereading your last post, I see you edited out a part that I quoted. I had this "reply post" in an open window while I was doing other things (breakfast brunch at Chez CT), or I would have noticed before submitting.

Would you prefer I edit this out of my post, too? It was the part that sparked me thinking, but I'm happy to edit or delete as you feel most comfortable.
 

---

Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
 
Is he making decisions for both of you, or is it that the decisions he makes for himself necessarily happen to affect both of you? (*not trying to challenge you or back you into a corner, just trying to see how you see it)
 

---

Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 

quote:

---

I thought we were to the point that...you know, that I could tell him things.

---

Pearce, the issue isn't that you can't tell him things; it's that you can't tell him things without having him think about them and reach his own conclusions. If you're looking for someone to whom you can tell things without getting responses, you want a teddy bear instead of a boyfriend.

Besides, you're just speculating about his reasons at this point, anyway. Why not just tell him, "Hey, I DO want you to move in, I DO think we're ready for it, and while I think it'll be hard for me to make the adjustment, I think in the end it's the best thing for me?" Telling US those things is fine, but telling HIM is more likely to produce the desired result.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Because I feel like he's already made the decision. He didn't really tell me that in a way like, "Well, I think we should get together and talk about if we're ready for this." It was, "I don't think we're ready for this because you're afraid I'm going to turn into a monster."

That's the thing...I don't mind him having reactions. I wish he would tell me what they were and ask me questions and stuff though before just...deciding things. I mean, he came with me to see my therapist last week, and he's supposed to come again on Tuesday, and the therapist said that this time she would talk to him more about what OCD is and explain it from an objective point of view. So I don't see why he had to go and decide now and not even talk to me first when he knows he's going to be able to get a lot more information in a couple of days.

And now I feel like if I talk him into moving in...that I'm dragging him into it.

-pH
 

---

Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by pH:

And now I feel like if I talk him into moving in...that I'm dragging him into it.

-pH

---

That's a nasty position to find oneself in.
 

---

Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
 
Make sure you tell him all the things you're telling us. Guys are, unfortunately, not so good at reading between the lines and figuring out non-verbal messages. Sometimes you have to tell us stuff, very blatantly, several different ways before we really understand.

That's the price you have to pay for having a studly dude around.
Woman-->
Man-->
 

---

Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
Um, girls aren't so easy at reading between the lines and figuring out the non-verbal messages either. It's that there's a difference in communication styles, which, to me, means that you can't rely on expecting someone to just get it, you actually have to spell things out clearly, and you can't expect him to read your mind, either. You actually have to spell things out clearly.

And telling him that you need something or want something doesn't mean that, when he does it, it's not worth as much cuz he didn't figure it out on his own - it still has value because he knows that you need it and still does it.

But seriously, and I'm going to beat a dead horse over this, you have different communication styles. You really do. So, it really is necessary to spell things out incredibly clearly. If you don't, you'll forever have misunderstandings and misinterpretations.

Got it?

And pH, I'm glad that post helped.
 

---

Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
 
I think there are a lot of people on this board, pH, who have had health and mental health issues as severe as yours who have found love. It happens, my dear.

Of course, this leaves the question open as to why someone perfect like myself hasn't found love, but oh, well. *sniff*
 

---

Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
You haven't? I find that surprising, Stormy.
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
The thing is, I HAVE been trying to spell things out as clearly as I possibly can. But one big, big thing that we have issues with is that I expect that if someone says they're going to do something on X day, that they're going to do it at that time. I've done my best to arrange my schedule around his because mine is more flexible. But now I feel like he expects me to be completely flexible about everything. Like before we went on our trip, he got all upset that I said I wanted to meet his parents before we left. And we had decided before that he was going to move in this weekend, and like I said, he didn't even tell me that that wasn't going to happen until last night. So I asked him to pick a day next week that would be more convenient. He said, "Okay." I asked what day, and he said he couldn't give me a specific day because then it would be written in stone and I'd get upset if he didn't do it on that day.

I fail to see how I'm being at all unreasonable in this. I do my best to accommodate him as much as possible. I just expect that he show me the courtesy of doing what he says he's going to do when he says he's going to do it, barring hospitalization or bear attack. He also doesn't understand why it upsets me that he shows up two hours late for almost everything. All I want is for him to be on time/on schedule for things to show respect for the fact that I bend over backwards to accomodate his ridiculous lifestyle.

-pH
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
*sigh* Now he's saying that he has a lot of things to think about concerning moving in and all that. I don't understand what he thinks has changed. It's not like I'm a different person. It's not like that happened to me yesterday. I'm still the same person as I was before I told him, but now I guess he looks at me differently. It's not like I'm a crazed mental patient, for crying out loud...he's not going to have to keep me away from scissors and three-ring binders.

But now I feel incredibly unsure of myself and unsure of our relationship. I mean, if me telling him something like that could change the way he look sat me that much, after we've been together this long...what does that mean?

-pH
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Okay, here's a medication question...it's hard to find an answer for on my own because...okay, my doctor told me that I needed to split up my regular Wellbutrin dose. I used to take 150mg Wellbutrin XL and 150mg regular, non-sustained release Wellbutrin all at once. Now he's telling me I should take the XL and 75mg of the regular in the morning and the other 75mg at lunch. The thing is, now I'm feeling incredibly fatigued, which doesn't make sense, since regular Wellbutrin has a really really short half-life, and splitting it up should give me MORE energy, not less, I'd think. But I'm also very close to my period. So which is more likely? If I switch to all regular Wellbutrin, four times a day, am I going to just sleep all the time? Because it's a stimulant...it doesn't make sense that I'd be more tired. But maybe I'm missing something that I haven't read anything about because practically no one takes regular Wellbutrin anymore; they usually take SR or XL.

Edit: I've also been having really, really creepy nightmares. I woke up maybe every half-hour last night. And of course I had to wake up poor Michael as well because I was scared. And I tried to take a nap and had yet another (really, really) creepy dream.

-pH
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
*bump in case somebody knows*

-pH
 

---

Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
*Hugs pH*

I understand that your brain works on specifics as far as places and times go.

However, I'm exactly like your boyfriend. I will say I'll be there at a specific time, and I'll have every intention of being there then. I'll even try to budget my time so that I get there. "oh I have to leave in 15minutes, I have to leave in 10minutes" But somehow I'm *always* late.

There's a stress and anxiety factor that goes into it too. If I *absolutely* have to be somewhere on time, I may get there but I will be in an emotional whirlwind cranky tizzy and generally incapable of participating in whatever it is I was supposed to do.

I obviously would make a horrible boyfriend for you. But I suspect his brain just doesn't work that way. Mine just doesn't no matter how much I try.

If this is a non-negotiable area for you, and you can't deal with someone whose brain works exactly *opposite* from you in this regard, maybe your flaws aren't compatible with each other.

I second what quidscribis said. Steve and I both think we've gotten the better bargain in our relationship, because our flaws don't drive the other person crazy and they love us regardless.

AJ
 

---

Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Minor updates:

I can't see my psychiatrist once a week anymore. In fact, I'll probably only get to see him four times a year.

I've been so busy with work that I haven't even gotten to see my specialist in a while.

The amount of stress and increase in symptoms created by the longer work week makes me wonder if I'll ever be able to hold a regular job.

My Wellbutrin dose has gone up from 300mg to 350mg, which is actually cheaper. I think Wellbutrin takes about a week to start kicking in. It's been three days.

-pH
 

---

Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 

quote:

---

The amount of stress and increase in symptoms created by the longer work week makes me wonder if I'll ever be able to hold a regular job.

---

quote:

---

I thought about looking into that, but there are people who need it more than I do.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rakeesh:

quote:

---

I thought about looking into that, but there are people who need it more than I do.

---

The thing is, there are always, always people who need money / resources more than you do. Without straining my imagination, I could easily think up a variety of serious problems that the Red Cross might be able to help you with, and still others would need help more.

That does not preclude you needing it. Organizations like the Red Cross don't operate on the self-sacrificing impulses of the needy, they exist to help the needy. If they can help you, they will be glad to...and those other people who need it more would be gladly helped by them, too.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by pH:
I think I'm going to go crawl under a rock right now....and take Tante's ears with me.

---