This is topic School apologizes for Hitler quotes in yearbook, or Does source damage the content? in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.
So, here's the gist: two students used quotes from Mein Kampf for their senior quotes in the yearbook. No one noticed until the books had been printed and distributed, even though they'd been looked at by the faculty adviser, the principal, and the district superintendent before going out.
Here are the quotes:
quote:Strength lies not in defense, but in attack.
quote:The great masses of people ... will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one.
Here's a comment from the principal:
quote:"It's our responsibility and we failed miserably," said Northport High School principal Irene McLaughlin. "The fact that the book went out in the form it did was a grave mistake on our part."
I think 'grave mistake' is overstating it. Should they have used better judgement? Maybe. I'm not convinced that the students did anything wrong, though.
Hitler was obviously a monster, and it's not my intention to defend the man. But I'm not sure that that means he never said something profound, or appropriate. And furthermore, I don't see why we can't separate the words from the man. I've never read Mein Kampf, so I don't have any idea what kind of stuff is in it. But those two quotes, with no attribution and no context don't seem offensive to me at all.
I mean, they're not particularly deep, but I've certainly seen much worse senior quotes (several chunks of rap songs come to mind).
The saying goes, "Consider the source."
Do we have to?
p.s. - Yes, Godwin's law in zero posts.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:The great masses of people ... will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one.
Besides, it seems to me that he pretty much proved this, and that we ought to remember it and work to counteract it.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
quote:Strength lies not in defense, but in attack.
And this one could have come from our current President.
Posted by Shawshank (Member # 8453) on :
Well- the quotes a pretty innocuous in and of themselves. And if said by another person could even be considered to be a smart thing to understand.
However- just from the tiny bit from Mein Kampf that I've read (for an English assignment on logical fallacies) it is incredibly racist and repugnant. Obviously.
I can understand this school in being upset- I probably would have been upset myself if I found that in my yearbooko.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
I think the kids were intentionally trying to put one over on the school admin. I wonder if they did it ironically, just as defiant rebels, or they're really jack-booted little Hitler nerds?
I agree, "grave mistake" is overstating it, but that's typical of public statements of regret or apology. Personally , I don't think the school did anything wrong, but I can just imagine the reacion of a hand-wringing PR type to the idea that no apology was needed.
Both statements are very general, and could have been said by any number of authors: the first by Lao Tsu or any military historian, and I think Stalin or someone famous said very similar comments about the Big Lie. Not that Stalin is much of an improvement. . .Obviously, if any specific Hitler craziness is quoted, then the school should edit it. Free speech has limits in a book which everyone from a school is going to buy.
I think you can seperate writings and comments from the people who make them. To the saying "consider the source" you can counter "even a blind pig finds an acorn now and then."
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
Or "even a broken clock is right twice a day."
I think the kids were probably in the first category, not neo-Nazis.
It's just annoying because the Hitler == Evil! reaction is so ingrained that it bleeds over to anything he was involved with. Yeah, the guy was pure evil, but that doesn't make mustaches evil, or short people evil.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
It would have been funnier if someone else's quote had been "Historically, Poland has always been a part of Northport High School".
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
Posted by Robin Kaczmarczyk (Member # 9067) on :
There's one i really like and i prapharse because i don't have the exact one on me:
"it's not the bombs, or the cannons or the tanks, but the pride and idealism of a people that win a war"..
What's wrong with quoting important people?
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
Nobody cares about Stalin. 30,000,000 people? Nothing. Not to mention Mao, the biggest, worst, well...I don't like him.
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
I've got a good one from Stalin that I've always liked:
Beaurocracy is the price we pay for impartiality.
it even got worked into my friend's house rules for Mao =p
As for the intitial argument, it's been gone over in various forms before. Remember when there was a big hullabaloo about naming Hitler as one of Time's most influential people (or something along those lines)? Many people will raise a fuss because of the source, and as a result there are always some level of public apologies etc... but I think most intelligent individuals would agree that as long as the idea/quote is not offensive/evil/wrong etc that it should be acceptable.
Though I agree that the quotes themselves are kinda weak.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
Noemon, with the funny.
*golf claps*
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
Also, Source damaging content, can apply to the scientific research the Nazis did.
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
scientific research and memorable quotes arent even in the same ballpark
if I use a quote such as those from hitler or mine from Stalin, all it is saying is: X person once said Y. It also implies that I have some connection to that statement, but no more.
Certainly the source of scientific data has a huge impact on its credibility... I could claim I did a study that proved 9/10 dogs was actually homosexual, but that doesn't mean it's true. Completely different realms there.
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