So after struggling with my weight for 20+ years I decided to let some surgeon stick probes into my belly and cut up and rearrange my guts. It has been two weeks since my surgery and though I am extremely tired of the liquid diet I am on, I think it is, possibly, the best decision I have ever made. (Much better than the tattoo.)
On Thursday I get to graduate to soft, mushy foods. That means I can eat more than chalky protein drinks and pureed vegetable soup and broth.
I joined a women's gym a week ago and I am up to 3 miles on the treadmill. This is pretty good seeing as I just had surgery two weeks ago and a week ago I could only go 1.5 mph without pain. I've been everyday except Sunday.
I have heard some say that this surgery is the easy way out. In some ways it is because I have no hunger. My new pouch (stomach) can only hold 4oz. and I have not had a hunger sensation, but man o man can I tell when I have swallowed too much! However, the small stomach has not stopped my head from craving the foods that packed 100 extra pounds on my body. The hardest part is breaking the head-hunger.
I still have to work out to help speed the weight loss and help prevent excess baggy skin, but if I want to maintain my new body I better have some healthy habits, too, right?
Why am I posting this? I haven't been an active poster on Hatrack for about a year (though I lurk quite often and have created a lurker in my step-daughter). Well, it's summer break and I have a lot of time on my hands so I've been reading quite a bit more Hatrack that before.
I was wondering what you all have heard or experienced on the topic. Let's face it, Hatrackers are a cut above that normal population and I want to hear what you have to say.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
My endocrinologist has studied and treated obesity for many years, and he doesn't recommend the surgery. He says if you want to get the same effect, get ipecac and drink some with everything you eat. He said it just makes people throw up a lot, which is bad for your esophagus, your teeth, etc.
More power to you, though! Different things work for different people. I know one lady who lost a lot of weight that way, but she had to be very careful what sort of food she ate from then on. Her stomach became very delicate and she could not tolerate fast food at all, nor pizza, nor various other things. But she was very happy with the results of the operation, and said she would do it over, if she had to make the decision again.
If it's the thing that prompts you to cut way down on your meal sizes and begin a serious exercise campaign, then it's going to be a good thing. If it's a way of you offloading responsibility from yourself to something outside of you, then in the long run it probably won't work.
Posted by aretee (Member # 1743) on :
quote: If it's the thing that prompts you to cut way down on your meal sizes and begin a serious exercise campaign, then it's going to be a good thing. If it's a way of you offloading responsibility from yourself to something outside of you, then in the long run it probably won't work.
My husband has been very clear with my about this. That why I am focusing on the head-hunger part. Do I want the food or do I need the food? That is the question I need to ask myself.
The second part of what you said is the exact reason that some people gain all their weight back even with a smaller pouch. After about a year, most new stomachs can handle normal food and people stretch them back out because they haven't dealt with the psychological reasons they abused food in the beginning.
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
My cousin, who also struggled with her weight for years, had this type of surgery and was very happy with the results. She looked and felt better.
It's very true, though, that you have to deal with the "head-hunger" cravings, as you call them. Sounds as though you have the right mindset to deal with them, though. As someone who used to crave a lot more sugar, salt and fat than I currently eat, I would like to give you a boost by saying that if you stick to a sensible diet low in those items, you will get to the point at which what you used to eat will taste too sweet, too salty and too fatty. That was a very convoluted sentence. But the bottom line is that you can change your dietary habits. It takes time and effort, but you can do it.
Congratulations on what you've achieved so far, and good luck.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Yes, best of luck! And let us know how it goes for you! Keep us updated! Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
I've seen someone who lost 200 pounds using gastric bypass then gain it all back and then some, because her stomach stretched back out and she went right back to her obese state.
I would not personally choose this type of surgery, but I'm not going to criticize your choice, aretee - I hope it works for you.
Personally, I believe that losing weight is very hard, but the only way I have found to keep it off permanently is to do it the hard way. Lose it slow, change your lifestyle, become active. That's the only way I've ever seen it work long term for people. Any quick fix is likely to be a temporary fix.
I'm not trying to preach or act as if I had all the answers, if I did, I wouldn't be overweight myself. But I don't think the surgery by itself can be successful for long term weight loss, it takes changing your mind and attitudes toward food and adopting a new lifestyle. If you accomplish that, (and it sounds like that's what you're doing aretee) then I think you've done great.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
I have two sisters who had the surgury. One had it 8 or 9 years ago and is still smaller than her pre-surgury weight, but once again a bit plump by objective standards (IMO). My other sister had hers 2 years ago or so and is very baggy in the chest and abdomen. She drinks coffee far into excess and is a borderline alcoholic, and shows signs of bringing it all back if she doesn't fix the underlying psychological problems that likely contributed to her weight problem in the first place.
On the other hand, I've heard of other success stories with the surgury. As others have said, it's properly more of an ongoing tool for weight loss and life change than a quick fix. What it turns out to be for you is entirely in your own hands. Keep up the exercise and fill your spare time with something constructive instead of food. Best of luck to you. (((aretee)))
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
I know at least 8 people who've done gastric bypass or a similar weight loss surgery. (Our insurance at work was covering it with a really good package for awhile, so we actually had some severely overweight people start working there just to do it.) Two of them are heavier now as before the surgery, and they both had a lot more than 100 pounds to lose. One is still quite overweight, but no longer obese. . . I think he lost 100 pounds but could stand to lose at least 75 more. Three lost the weight and mostly kept it off, are maybe a little overweight. And two got down to their ideal weight or a little below, made the lifestyle change, and look and feel great. They both are peitie women who lost over 100 pounds, had the skin removal surgery, and really took the diet and exercise changes to heart.
Good luck, aretee. It's stil not going to be easy, but you can do it! Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Oh, and Tatiana, I think you might be confusing this surgery with something else. Gastric bypass does not make you throw up. It makes your stomach much, much smaller, so you're not hungry and can't eat a lot at a time, forcing your body to use up your fat reserves instead. For the first while after the surgery you're on a totally liquid diet, and then after that you're eating mostly pureed food, like baby food. Nothing that would make you feel sick.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I had a friend who had it and lost well over a hundred pounds, and she was fine. The last time I saw her, however, was only a few months after the surgery, so I don't know long-term effects.
I had another friend who had the surgery and died on the operating table.
I think it's very risky, and I think that if the underlying psychological and lifestyle causes are not addressed, it will all come back. I wouldn't risk it, because of the risk of the surgery. There's a high rate of complications. It can work for some, though. That's good to go to the gym and plan on changing your life.
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
It may not *cause* you to throw up, but it happens a lot more with this. It's part of why they tell you to eat slowly and chew carefully...you can eat faster than your new stomach can tell you it is full, and if the food can't go down, it comes up. It goes away after a while, though.
My wife had Gastric Bypass surgery several years ago. She had a lot of complications, nearly dying in the hospital. She was in for a month, and sick for a year after that until another doc fixed up what was screwed up. However, she lost a lot of weight, and is able to be more active than in the past. Most doctors and insurance companies now require you to go to counselling before the surgery to be sure you have the right mindset about it, it is not a simple cure by no means.
aretee, I can give you my wife's e-mail addy if you need someone to talk to. Also, there may be a support group in your area, my wife's was great for answering the little questions that crop up. Good luck!
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Ah, that makes sense, Tick. Thanks.
Posted by CaySedai (Member # 6459) on :
I have thought about it, but, honestly, the whole thing scares me. There were some deaths from the surgery in Des Moines a (not too long) while ago. I'm concerned about the diet requirements.
My husband wants to have the surgery, but they require him to quit smoking first. I can't see that happening any time soon. But, if he does quit smoking and then has the surgery, I'll see how it goes with him.
I've never actually talked to anyone who has had the surgery to get a first-hand view, though.
Posted by aretee (Member # 1743) on :
Thanks, Tick. I'd like that. I'm sorry your wife had so many complications. But, I'm glad to hear that things worked out, too.
I was required to go to a psychologist before I could schedule a surgury date and I was required to go to a support group as well. I go to support group meetings once or twice a month. I'd go more but they are a little over an hour away and I can't always get there on a Thursday night.
The hospital and my surgeon both gave me a quiz before the surgury to ensure that I understood the procedure and the risks involved. There are some risks and there have been some very bad and sad cases, but that is with any surgury. Research is the key and finding a good surgeon. I went to three before I decided on the one who finally did the procedure. They have also made quite a few advances and innovations in the procedure.
I go to a Bariatric Clinic where they supervise your post-op life rather closely. Half the staff has had the procedure so they are very knowledgeable on the problems that can arise. Also, the hospital they work with has a floor designated for bariatric surgery and a number of the nurses have had the procedure and they know what its like and were a GREAT help and comfort.
I have talked with people who have had dreadful and nearly fatal complications and they said they'd do it all over again because it helped them change their life so much.
The key is to remember that this is just a tool and you have to fix your head and your habits in order to be successful long-term.
Posted by BaoQingTian (Member # 8775) on :
Why is the surgery necessary? I confess, I don't know much about it other than a younger sibling's high school classmate died from one.
What prevents weight loss the normal way? I assume it's something different than a thyroid problem, as I know a couple people on medication for that that lost over 100 pounds without the surgery.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
I guess I look at it as if you have to go through therapy and support groups and you have to change your habits to make it successful - then why not do all those things without surgery? Why put your life at risk in a dangerous operation, why not just change the mindset and the habits and lose weight the old fashioned way - by burning more calories than you take in?
I'm not trying to be critical, but my question is similar to BQT's - why is the surgery necessary?
Again, I'm not trying to say weight loss is easy, I know it isn't. I'm overweight myself. But the times I did lose weight and keep it off for a long time I did a lot of the things aretee is describing, I had to change my habits, I had help and a support group and I was successful without resorting to surgery. I don't see why if you're willing to do all the hard work necessary to lose weight with the surgery, why can't you do it without the surgery?
And yes, every surgery has some risk associated with it, but the complication rate for bariatric surgery is extremely high.
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
quote:Gastric bypass surgery may be an option if you are significantly obese and have tried unsuccessfully to lose weight on diet and exercise programs and are unlikely to lose weight successfully with non-surgical methods.
Gastric bypass surgery is not a "quick fix" for obesity. The surgery can take several hours and has risks and possible complications. For example, vomiting following the surgery is not uncommon because of eating more than the new, small stomach can accommodate.
Your commitment to diet and exercise must be very strong because even after the surgery, you must adhere to these lifestyle changes. Otherwise, complications from the surgery are likely to develop.
The procedure may be considered for obese individuals who have:
A Body Mass Index (BMI) of 40 or more. BMI is a calculation based on height and weight that is used to determine whether you are of normal weight or are overweight. Someone with a BMI of 40 or more is at least 100 pounds over their recommended weight. A normal BMI is between 18.5 and 25. A BMI of 35 or more along with a life-threatening illness that can be made better with weight loss, such as sleep apnea, type 2 diabetes, and heart disease.
Basically, if you have tried other weight loss methods, without getting much in the way of results, this type of surgery exists as a sort of last resort. It shouldn't be used for convenience, but of course some people try and probably still make it past the counselling. Like aretee said, it is a tool to help folks that have tried other things first.
That being said, I'm not a fan of high schoolers having a surgery like this. I mean, their bodies aren't even done growing.
Posted by BaoQingTian (Member # 8775) on :
Thanks for the extra info Tick, but I think my questions still remains. I understand that a strict diet is necessary post-surgery in order to avoid complications and keep the weight off. What I don't understand is why the strict diet is not possible before the surgery. Everyone thinks they are an exception, but the fact is with good nutrition and exercise (and the addition of medications for those with thyroid problems for example) anyone can lose weight.
Is this surgery a medically imposed and enforced will-power substitute? That's kind of the impression I'm getting after reading this thread. If that's the wrong conclusion, please clear it up.
Edit: The highschool kid in question was almost 400 lbs and in imminent medical danger from what I was told
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Part of the problem with simply adopting the nutrition and exercise program rather than surgery is that some people are physically unable to do the exercise required due to their excess weight.
I have a friend who had this surgery a year and a half ago. It was a wonderful thing for her. She did not have any complications and was able to recover from many of the medical problems that she had before surgery.
My mother recently was considering this surgery. While she would only just qualify weightwise, she has some as yet undiagnosed condition(s) that are rapidly decreasing her mobility (limited though it already was due to other issues) and she is concerned that in her present state, neither she nor my father could move her easily as her degeneration continues. Because of her myriad problems, she cannot exercise (none of her doctors have been able to come up with something she could do) and her diet is already extremely restricted (due to food allergies). Additionally, one of the types of bypass has been proven successful for treating and preventing Type II diabetes. I would have fully supported her in a decision to proceed with surgery, but she has, for now, decided to try to induce similar weight loss by only eating 1/2 cup meals.
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
A lot of people who are the best candidates for bypass surgery have diabetes, hypertension, sleep apnea, etc. These diagnoses lead to early death and high morbidity/mortality. If they cannot find other ways to lose weight, then compare the risks: The mortality/morbidity of having all those health problems is HIGHER than the mortality/morbidity associated with having the surgery and losing the weight.
The clinics that do this are supposed to look at the risks/benefits for each person individually, taking into consideration psychological factors, motivation, etc as well. Bypass surgery recovery is not easy. You have to have a dedicated patient, who can follow instructions, or this won't work.
Posted by BaoQingTian (Member # 8775) on :
So most of the candidates for this surgery have reached the point where they are physically unable to walk 30 minutes a day? That makes sense then.
I guess what I don't understand is the eating part. By eating smaller more nutritious meals throughout the day, at a slight calorie deficiency the weight will drop off quickly in an extremely obese person. So what I'm getting at is wondering if candidates for this have serious eating disorders and are unable to stop eating for a psychological reason.
Posted by BaoQingTian (Member # 8775) on :
I don't like how my posts sound. They sound rude to me. I apologize. I guess what I'm asking is if the kinds of things that lead to needing gastric bypass surgery are generally psychological in nature.
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
I don't really want to touch that question except to say that many people are incapable of eating in such a way and there are many, many reasons for this. Not just psychological.
Also I don't think the pounds drop off many morbidly obese people very quickly. Many have very low metabolisms, very sedentary lives, drugs and conditions which oppose weight loss, and not that much muscle tissue, and it just doesn't happen very easily for many people.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
quote:Originally posted by ElJay: Oh, and Tatiana, I think you might be confusing this surgery with something else. Gastric bypass does not make you throw up. It makes your stomach much, much smaller, so you're not hungry and can't eat a lot at a time, forcing your body to use up your fat reserves instead. For the first while after the surgery you're on a totally liquid diet, and then after that you're eating mostly pureed food, like baby food. Nothing that would make you feel sick.
ElJay, have you known anyone who actually had it? It makes you throw up a whole lot, until you learn that you can only eat very small meals at a time without throwing up, and that you can't eat certain types of foods without throwing up, etc. You either train yourself to eat miniscule amounts, and keep your food down, or else go ahead and eat more, and let it come back up soon thereafter. From what I hear, most people take a while to learn this, and so they spend weeks throwing up a lot.
Posted by aretee (Member # 1743) on :
BaoQingTian I don't think you sound rude, I think you sound curious and a little confused. I have no problem with that.
Tatiana, not everyone throws up a lot. I haven't thrown up yet. Of course I haven't started on solid foods and many who vomit do because they are eating too fast and aren't chewing their food enough. We also have to be very careful introducing new foods into our diet as our tastes and tolerance changes. Many foods that are high in sugar or fat may cause us to "dump" which means we could have symptoms such as vomiting, diarrea(sp?), dizziness, and even fainting.
Why have the surgery instead of just controlling what I eat? Because that hasn't worked in 20 years and I needed a physical reminder that I can't eat certain foods for a while. It does take some responsibility away for some people, but only for a short time. For me it is a reminder of how desperate I am to get myself healthy. I HAVE to drink my meals for two weeks and then eat soft mushy foods because I will cause myself physical harm if I don't. It's a head start.
Some people try to cheat what their nutritionists advise them to do. They try foods before they are supposed to and sneak in things that are supposed to be bad. Some will dump an learn a lesson and others will not and they will gain their weight back.
For me, I just paid a guy (and his team) around $20,000 to rearrange my guts to give me a tool to help me before I get sick. That thought in and of itself helps me when I want to cheat. Those of us who are Morbidly Obese obviously have problems controlling ourselves around food. I needed a little physical reminder and it is working so far. I've lost 15 pounds in 2 weeks and I have been going to the gym faithfully (even before I was supposed to, but that kind of cheating is okay in my mind) to help be the healhiest I can be.
I was on the smaller end of people who get this done and I have no other co-morbidities other than arthritis in my knees (I'm only 32 for Heaven's sake!). My docter reviewed my history of weight loss attempts (and it was substantial) which included Weight Watchers, TOPS, Natural Hygeine, and my personal efforts and diets and gym memberships, etc. He said that we should nip this now before I get some real problems which also run in my family history (which he also looked at).
It's not for everyone and there are those who have done it who shouldn't have. In about a year my stomach will be able to handle most foods. That is when the hard part comes in. Can I maintain my weight loss? Have I formed enough new, good habits that I will want to continue making healthy food choices? Will I still be going to the gym or exericising in some meaningful way? My answer now is: YES. It's a decision I have to make now and every day for the rest of my life.
Why surgery? To give me the edge that I have obviously been missing my whole life. My husband lost 150 lbs without the surgery. I wish I had that ability...but I don't.
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
Strangely enough, I find the surgery morally defensible. I cherish my mobility. I'm agile as a cat and that's how I like it, if(and when) moving around became(becomes) a chore, I'd(and I'll) have some serious psychological issues. I was lucky enough to develop good eating and exercise habits as a child, and they've stuck with me. This surgery sounds like a restart button for those who weren't so similarly blessed by circumstance.
The dying on the operating table is spooky, but hey, people put themselves in dangerous situations for more careless reasons. It's one of those choices I don't have to make, but since you do, and you can, good luck with it.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tatiana: ElJay, have you known anyone who actually had it? It makes you throw up a whole lot, until you learn that you can only eat very small meals at a time without throwing up, and that you can't eat certain types of foods without throwing up, etc. You either train yourself to eat miniscule amounts, and keep your food down, or else go ahead and eat more, and let it come back up soon thereafter. From what I hear, most people take a while to learn this, and so they spend weeks throwing up a lot.
Like I said in my first post, Tatiana, I know 8 people who have done it. None of them have mentioned throwing up. Two of them I know quite well and have discussed their experiences in length, the other six are aquaintences or co-workers that I've talked to about it more casually. Maybe they just didn't mention it, or maybe they all managed to follow the guidelines better than the people you've encountered. You have talked to people who've had the surgery, I assume?
Posted by Arthur (Member # 4026) on :
Hi! Congratulations on starting a new life. I am the tick's wife, Jennifer I had my gastric bypass surgery in 2001. To this date I have lost 220 lbs after being unsucessful for a long time. If I could give you any advice it is to take your time getting to solid foods, the honeymoon period is when you will lose the most amount of weight. I also had a baby since having the surgery. I help run an online support group for people looking into the surgery and people who have had it. Dealing with the head hunger is one of the biggest problems we will ever face and seing a therapist after your surgery is a great help, as well as finding a local support group to share with. Please email me with any questions you have, I would be happy to answer them. I do have the dumping problem, I cannot eat anything with over 6 grams of sugar in it and for a while I threw up a lot. I can also eat like a "normal person" now because my stomach has stretched a bit. Best wishes!
Posted by Kristen (Member # 9200) on :
Aretee: Congratulations on your decision. You seem really committed to it, and I think you will be successful.
As much as the food nanny's/thin people's notion of "just exercise and eat right and you'll lose weight" would be nice if it were true, it's not. There are some of us who, for both genetic, physical, and deep psychological reasons, cannot lose weight if we want to. And, these days, both the physical and emotional trauma of being fat is so bad that it is well worth risking the complications of surgery.
Thus, share your story and your success so that the surgery becomes even more commonplace, more desired thus more studied, and hopefully safer. I don't think there is such thing as a quick fix, but it's the kind of Major Change, which could make the difference for people with a history of struggling with their weight.
Posted by BaoQingTian (Member # 8775) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kristen: As much as the food nanny's/thin people's notion of "just exercise and eat right and you'll lose weight" would be nice if it were true, it's not. There are some of us who, for both genetic, physical, and deep psychological reasons, cannot lose weight if we want to.
See, I just don't buy that. I can accept the psychological reasons. People do have genetics that make it more difficult to lose weight, no doubt about that. But to say it's genetics to put quadruple your bodyweight and you can't do anything about it is ridiculous. The only physical thing I could think of that would stop someone is if they can't walk or are quadriplegic and can't lift weights. The only thing that I can really understand is if it's a psychological issue in some way or another.
I know this won't change your mind one bit. But I've heard person after person say that it's their genetics, etc etc that later on showed amazing transformations on bodybuilding sites, etc. Aretee's husband could have no doubt said any of those things, but he was able to lose 150 lbs. Most people I've heard that make statements just like that aren't able to explain the the fundamentals of nutrition and exercise.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
I agree. I am overweight and it's nobody's fault but my own. yes, a lot of it is psychological, I put a bunch on when I was battling depression and used food as a drug, but the main reason I gained weight is I sat on my behind, didn't excercise, and took in way too many calories. No physical limitation prevents me from ridding myself of those pounds, and in fact I've already started to lose them now I'm trying to get more active. Chemo is a **tch in that regard, makes it hard to excercise, but it's still not a real excuse. I got out and walked a mile the other day, yes it was tough, but I can do it.
Unless you have some serious physical impairment or you're struggling with a serious psychological issue (like depression) you can do what's necessary to lose weight. You need to treat the psychological problems if they're there, of course, I couldn't embark on a weight loss strategy until I got my depression under control. It's not easy, it's not fun, and it takes tremendous will power and dedication, but it can be done.
The first thing for me to do is stop making excuses for myself. I could have continued to stay on the couch and used my cancer and the chemo fatigue as an excuse, but I'm not going to.
I hope I don't sound condescending, if you saw me you'd tell me to shut up, I'm as overweight as anyone on this board, I'm sure. I'm not trying to say I'm a fitness guru - of course I'm not. But having lost weight before, and successfully kept it off for an extended period, I do know how to do it. I also know that it's darn tough to do. When I lost weight before it wasn't some gimmick, I just worked hard for more than year and lost over 50 pounds. About a pound a week, a good, consistent, healthy weight loss. And I kept it off until I got pregnant and then became seriously depressed.
So now I get to do it again. I'm not trying to pretend there aren't factors like genetics, and genuine health problems and psychological problems that are barriers to weight loss. But many times I've heard people say, "I just can't exercise." Yet they can walk. That's all it takes - being able to walk - to get started. Like my oncologist told me when I was discussing how hard it was to exercise due to chemo - she said if I could get up and walk half a block that was better than not walking half a block. And if I kept walking half a block then eventually I would be able to walk a whole block, and then on and on. And she's right - I could barely make a half mile on the track three weeks ago and now I've successfully walked a mile on the track. Still pretty pathetic, I was up to three miles before I got sick, but hey, it's better than sitting on the couch and not walking a mile.
Posted by BaoQingTian (Member # 8775) on :
The thing is, that if the surgery works, then weight loss without the surgury works. It doesn't change metabolism, genetics, physical probems, etc. All it does is reduce the amount of food a person can eat at one time. Which could have been done before the surgery. However, I understand that people might need the extra step in order to overcome psychological barriers- and hey that's better than dying from obesity related health complications.
I think we think of food kind of strangely in our culture. It's a happy drug. Starts out that way when you're crying for whatever reason as an infant and you get a bottle stuck in your mouth. It just gets reinforced over the years. Everytime we want to celebrate it involves food. I think food gets associated with happiness over and over again. Not to mention so many of the things we eat gives us physical 'rushes' like sugar or heavy in fat foods. As my wife and I have been dieting & exercising these last several months, we've found we have to fight the impulse to eat to celebrate or cheer up several times a week.
Posted by aretee (Member # 1743) on :
You know, I've lost large amounts of weight in the past, too; on several occasions. But I've gained it all back again plus more. This surgery isn't just for people who wake up one morning and deicde, hey, I want to have my stomach cut up so I can lose weight. This is for people with a long history of trying, failing, and becoming more unhealthy. It is a last resort.
I got my butt off the couch. I'm working out, spending more calories than I consume. I just needed a little help with the consuming calories, part.
I would say that I almost had an eating disorder for how I looked at food. The problem with people who abuse food is that we can't just give it up like alcoholics give up alcohol. You need to eat to live. My problem is that I lived to eat. I like what Irami said, it's like a restart button.
You're right Belle and Bao, we should be able to do those things...I just couldn't...not for long enough to lost the total amount of weight I needed to lose.
I'm sorry you can't understand what it is like to have a problem that is so apparent to the rest of the world. Do you know what it's like to be 100lbs over weight and then get in work out clothes to go to the gym? Have you have been subjected to the comments that people make? What about the same just walking around the neighborhood? I felt bad enough about myself as it was and then to have it compounded by that was even more humiliating.
And, food was/is my drug. My husband and I don't know what to do with ourselves on the weekends anymore. We used to go to Houston on Friday nights or Satuday and go out to eat and shop. We've been joking about that for a few weeks, now: What do we do now? Well, when I'm in better shape (and cleared to do so by my surgeon) we're going to go bike riding. He mountain bikes and is training on a road bike for a race later this year. I will start a spinning class and help myself with my stamina. He is also looking at tandum bikes to buy. We will be making the changes so my new tool will be successful long term.
I think you still view this surgery as a quick-fix...like it's easy. It's not...it's just forcing me to deal with issues I have ignored for too long.
THAT'S IT!
I just figured it out...it's not taking resonsibility away, it's forcing it on me. It is making me deal with my cravings and head-hunger and forcing me to listen to my body instead of my head. It is a kind of physical therapy that gives negative consequences (dumping) for poor food choices and positive consequences for good food choices.
If you'll excuse me, I have to go to the gym now. Because I just invested a large amount of my insurence company's money in this, my sense of responsibility urges me to make it as successful as I can.
Arthur: Thanks, I will email you soon. Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
I'm sure you'll do really well with this, aretee. You seem to have a great attitude about it! Good luck!
Question: Does the human stomach hold water very long? Because your stomach is so much smaller that I wonder how you can stay hydrated while exercising.
-pH
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
pH, liquids consumed alone pass through a regularly sized stomach (and I believe even more so in a surgically-reduced one) in a matter of minutes.
BQT, correct me if I'm wrong, but you are not yet 25, right? Before I was 20, losing weight was relatively simple. Now that I am 32, have had three children, and am a single mom with NO TIME, it's not nearly as simple. (And it's far more frustrating. When I was 18, small modifications to my diet and activity showed results within a week. That's simply not true any longer.)
For you to sit there and judge whether people should or should not have a surgery approved by their doctors seems to me to be the height of arrogance. And statements like "The thing is, that if the surgery works, then weight loss without the surgery works. It doesn't change metabolism, genetics, physical problems, etc. All it does is reduce the amount of food a person can eat at one time." simply indicate your ignorance.
While I personally do not want (or at present, need) the surgery, I have RL friends who have done it and in combination with other things, such as therapy, have found it very effective.
aretee, good luck! Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
quote:Do you know what it's like to be 100lbs over weight and then get in work out clothes to go to the gym?
No, but I know what it's like to be more than 80 pounds overweight. And I know that putting on work out clothes and going to the gym is not the only way to lose weight. I didn't set a foot inside a gym when I lost that fifty plus pounds before. That is another excuse I get tired of hearing. (Not trying to say you're only using it as an excuse but many people do.) You don't need gym memberships or to look good in workout clothes to lose weight. All you need is a good pair of walking shoes to start and some free weights you can get for less than 20 bucks at Wal-Mart.
And honestly, if you are concerned about your health and your life and you think a gym membeship and working out there will help save your life then who the heck cares what you look like in workout clothes? I'm joining a Pilates class at the university gym this fall and I'll probably be the biggest person in the class. So what? I'm not there to impress other women or men with how I look in workout clothes. So what if I look fat in those clothes? I am fat, that's why I'm there.
I'm not trying to attack you aretee, I hope you succeed. Stop attacking me and assuming I don't know what I'm talking about. I never said the surgery was a quick fix, I just noted that in cases I've observed it wasn't a permanent fix. And for it to be permanent takes the kind of dedication and work that it takes to lose weight the old fashioned way. When you look at it like that, I don't understand why you can't just put forth the effort without the associated risks of the surgery. That's all I'm saying. You may not be looking at it as a quick fix, but I know many people who do - people who resort to the surgery because they don't want to put forth the effort to lose weight. Those people will not be successful, they will be like my former co-worker who lost 200 pounds with the surgery and then proceeded to put it all back on by stretching out her stomach and then eating the same way as before and leading a sedentary lifestyle.
Posted by BaoQingTian (Member # 8775) on :
aretee, I'm sorry I gave you the wrong impression, I definately don't view this kind of surgery as a quickfix or easy. To be honest, it would scare me to death to go in and do it. I think it takes a lot of courage to take responsibility for a health problem and to fix it. Also, I'm not judging you or anyone else saying that you should be able to do those things. I understand that there are psychological circumstances. Honestly, after this thread I view the surgery as a physical treatment for a psychological problem. I wish you the best of luck and really hope this works out for you, and that you're able to maintain a healthy lifestyle long after this surgery.
rivka, I'm older than 25. This isn't some personal testimony of how it's changed me. People do this all the time.
Perhaps instead of pointing out my ignorance, you can correct it. I'm not judging people for having surgery, although judgmental does make a convenient label for me. I simply do not accept some of the premises being put forth by people. You took particular offense to this statement:
quote:The thing is, that if the surgery works, then weight loss without the surgery works. It doesn't change metabolism, genetics, physical problems, etc. All it does is reduce the amount of food a person can eat at one time.
Perhaps you can point out what exactly is ignorant about what I said. Does the surgery in fact change more than reducing the amount of food the stomach can hold at one time?
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
I tend to think that the main benefit of the surgery is the psychological jumpstart on weight loss. As BQT says, there's no reason why you can't achieve the same results by simply not eating as much (which is, as I understand it, basically what the surgery accomplishes).
I do think the psychological advantage is significant. You have major surgery, spent some serious cash, and suddenly the stakes are much higher than your ordinary twice-a-year diet. That's probably a big motivator, which a lot of people need.
The results are the important thing, and anything someone does to take control of their weight (that isn't detrimental to their overall health, like an eating disorder) is okay by me.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I think it's like joining a gym. Technically, I don't need a gym to exercise, but spending that much money on a membership and a trainer suddenly gave me a very clear reason and motivation.
I don't think I'd do the gastric bypass, though, because of the higher-than-normal risk of complications. I know there's risk involved in being overweight, but when you're a mother, I think you owe it to the people who depend on you to minimize those risks, and this kind of surgery is a huge one. My friend died of it, and she didn't have to.
It's like a parent climbing Everest - there are reasons to climb Everest, but I don't think any of them are worth gambling with the existence of one's family.
I wish you the best, aretee. I know the frustration of trying to lose weight and never doing it. My mother struggled with her weight all her life, and it ultimately killed her. The drastic measures she took to try and lose it, though, contributed as much as the weight itself. I know she felt like she needed to and she was so unhappy being overweight, but I'd rather have her with me.
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
I see a lot of the same things being said, that smokers get. You know, you are just hurting yourself, why not just stop doing it? You are POISONING yourself, just quit and you'll be healthier. Just stop doing it! Now there are always a few people who say sure, I quit cold turkey the first time and never smoked again, but how many of those people are there? Everyone I know that quit tried multiple times over the course of years. It's a similar thing, except you need some food to live, so it's easier to rationalize bad behavior.
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
That's a good point Katie. It's a balance that you have to look at long and hard before major surgery on a very important area of your body. Turning it around a bit, my wife probably wouldn't have been able to HAVE kids without the bypass, the extra stress on her heart and her back (which she broke as a teenager) would've been terrible.
Posted by aretee (Member # 1743) on :
quote:Originally posted by Belle: [QUOTE]Stop attacking me and assuming I don't know what I'm talking about.
I'm sorry, that comment was directed toward Bao, not you. I guess my post sounded a little defensive...and it was...but I wasn't trying to attack anyone. I was just trying to explain my point. I did get to the point where I didn't care. I went to the gym 6 days a week last year and was pretty darn successful. But I have a full time job, a family, and I was taking graduate courses that climbed up the priority list above going to the gym. (It was actually the graduate courses that threw working out off the list because I was doing it before with all the other stuff...)
I'm sorry Belle.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
Don't apologize aretee. It takes courage to do what you did, and it also takes courage to come here and talk about it, knowing you're going to have people that don't agree with your choice.
I'm just nervous for people who aren't as smart as you are and don't realize that it takes hard work after the surgery to really make it work. I've seen people who have had complications, and I've heard many people talk about going forward to this surgery thinking that it's a quick fix that will solve all their problems. It's a good thing, I thin, that you're stressing how it isn't an easy way out.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Well, I think another benefit of the surgery is that if you start exercising after you do it, the faster weight loss sort of reinforces what you're doing.
I'm not overweight, but that's been one of my biggest roadblocks to getting in better shape - if I do it for a little while and don't feel like anything is happening, I'm more likely to give up.
-pH
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
That's a good point, pH. I know after I lost the 50 pounds, I had a hard time losing any more. I didn't see much more benefit, because I plateaued and it was hard to keep motivated. However, I had already done myself a world of good losing the 50, so I'd be glad just to be back to that point, now!
Another thing I think people should realize is how discouraging scale watching can be. You can be getting in better shape, yet the scale isn't changing, or it might even show you've gained. So I try to focus on how I feel and how my clothes are fitting as a gauge for weight loss and try to remember that weight is just a number.
Posted by JennaDean (Member # 8816) on :
You know what would be really beneficial ... if we could hypnotize people into believing they'd had the surgery, and give them the same specific instructions on how to care for themselves afterward. Then they'd make these huge changes in their lives: eating much smaller portions, eating healthier foods (because they only have room for so much so it'd better be healthy), exercising ... and the weight loss would come, without the dangers of the surgery.
Posted by aretee (Member # 1743) on :
You think I'm smart? Thanks.
I know what you mean. And surgeons should not perform this surgery on those people who are not ready for it. My surgeon requires a psych evaluation and a recommendation from that psychologist. At my group meeting, I have seen the psychologist tell someone that they should seriously reconsider this surgery because they were too worried about what they wouldn't be able to eat and drink for the rest of thier lives. I went to a good clinic with great support facilities. Unfortunately that is not always the case and there are unethical surgeons who will perform this surgery on anyone who can cough up the money (or has insurence).
Kat has a point as well...and I did weigh the risks and outcomes. I am, for the most part, very healthy. My body could stand the procedure with little complications and that is exactly what happened. It was easier than my gall bladder surgery, that's for sure! In addition, I don't have kids of my own...my step-daughters have loving, caring parents who would care for them if anything did happen. And, this surgery only increases my chances of having my own children in a few years.
I led this discussion on Hatrack KNOWING I would face opposition and I am kind of embarrassed that I got so defensive. I told myself that there would be people who disagreed and that was their perogative and also another reason I posted it. On the message boards at obesityhelp.com, everyone is for the surgery. They have had it or in the process of getting it done. The other reason I came over here is you all have better grammar and spelling than they do...
pH: You are exactly right. When I see weight lowering on the scale OR inches coming off my body...that is the best motivater of all. Right now it is dropping so fast I can barely believe it. I work hard on getting all the nutrients (esp. protein) in that I need and I fail miserably with the water. You asked a question about that. Water goest through pretty quickly. I keep a bottle on the treadmill and take a swig about every 30 seconds to a minute. I have to sip all day long because I am supposed to get 60-80 oz a day.
Kat: I agree with you...paying for a gym membership is a big part of the motivation to go. I hate to waste money, so if I pay for it...I better use it. (Another reason I have stay away from all you can eat buffets! )
Posted by aretee (Member # 1743) on :
Jenna, that's not a bad idea. It'd be cheaper, too!
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
On gym memberships:
I agree, they're a big motivation. Unfortunately, they aren't enough of a motivation for me. So I had to pre-pay six months of a membership AND arrange to hire a personal trainer because honestly, I need someone both to get on my back about showing up and working out (and not cheating while doing it) and also to help me see that I'm actually making progress.
That's the thing. Working out takes a lot of motivation, and a lot of times, people just don't have all the motivation they need inside their own minds. I LOVE exercise, and I STILL need extra help. I can definitely see how someone who's not used to exercise or who finds it every difficult would need even more of a boost.
-pH
Posted by Arthur (Member # 4026) on :
Believe me this surgery is not the easy way out - far from it. After having this surgery you have to be more disciplined in what you eat and how you live. The long term affects are not anything to fool around with. It's not something a person wakes up one morning and says I want to have my guts ripped out and rearranged and be in incredible pain for long periods of time (I had mine open, which means I was split from my breastbone to past my bellybutton and spread open). It has to be medically documented that there is a long term history of trying diets and gyms and such. The bypass changes how our body works, we can no longer break down fats, oils vitamins, GB patients cannot take a lot of medications and if I have to have antibiotics I have to take them by IV because I can't break them down.
Posted by JennaDean (Member # 8816) on :
It's amazing what drastic measures it takes to get us to change our favorite habits, isn't it?
Because, as has been said, it's not the surgery that gets rid of the weight - it's the change in diet and exercise. But some of us, in order to make those changes, have to be forced into it by going through dangerous and painful major surgery. Wow.
I have my own habits I'm trying to break, and I wonder what it'll take to get me to change them. Just a vague "you'll be happier/healthier if you quit" doesn't seem to be motivation enough, does it?
Posted by Kristen (Member # 9200) on :
quote:Because, as has been said, it's not the surgery that gets rid of the weight - it's the change in diet and exercise. But some of us, in order to make those changes, have to be forced into it by going through dangerous and painful major surgery. Wow.
I don't think people realize how very hard it is for people who are inclined to be overweight to actually lose the weight.
Of course eating well and exercise is the key to weight loss (unless you have insulin resistance or some other condition). However, for people like me, and I assume Aretee, we need to eat a WHOLE lot better than the average person and exercise a WHOLE lot more to achieve the results.
For a normal person, working out 3 times a week and not eating dessert all the time is enough to get them into shape. For me, if I do everything right and I do mean everything, then I won't gain weight, but I won't lose weight either. I walk 3 miles a day and it makes no difference. It's not about changing the leafy greens in our diets or walking 30 minutes a day--if those of us who lost the genetic lottery even want to dream about being normal then it requires the highest, most consuming commitment. It would literally rule my life.
This is why the "it's all about change in lifestyle habits" attitude completely disenfranchises people like me--it's not as simple as that. Not even close.
Gastric bypass is NOT like joining a gym. Of course it is helpful psychologically, very much so. But it is also giving people who, if they eat like normal people won't lose weight, a physical tool to restrict EVERY MEAL they eat to an amount few people can tolerate. Because that's, for such people, the only way it is possible to even possibly consider losing the right amount of weight.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
quote:For a normal person, working out 3 times a week and not eating dessert all the time is enough to get them into shape.
No, it isn't. Maybe for a teenager, but for average adults, working out for 30 min a day three times a week will keep them treading water. Actually getting into shape requires upping either time, frequency, or both.
30 min of arebic excercise is, about, 250 calories. That's one bagel. Doing that seven times a week with no change in diet will result in one pound every two weeks.
For everyone, it takes a great deal of exercise to lose weight. When I am working 30 minutes a day several times a week, then I just tread water. I'm not skinny, but I'm not really fat either - basically normal, can still shop in regular stores.
I have lost a lot of weight through diet and exercise, and it took a strict diet and buttloads of exercise. It does for everyone. The gorgeous actresses you see in the pages work out for an hour every day, 5-6 days a week simply to maintain. It always takes an extraordinary amount of work to lose weight.
quote:if those of us who lost the genetic lottery even want to dream about being normal then it requires the highest, most consuming commitment. It would literally rule my life.
Except for the few people who really do have the metabolism of hummingbirds, for most adults >25 to look "normal", it takes a lot of gym time.
I remember when I discovered that a few years ago - that the beautiful women in my church spent five days a week at the gym. It doesn't rule their life - it is part of their lives.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Something important to consider is that some people have particular medical conditions that prevent them from losing weight in the traditional way--they even might gain weight if they eat like their peers.
The specific example I'm talking about is PolyCystic Ovarian Syndrome (or Disease) which many women have. PCOS is also often associated with Insulin Resistance. Women with IR can go on a diet and lose nothing. But if they learn to limit (NOT eliminate) carbs and pair them with protein, they can have a lot more success and start to actually lose weight for the first time in their lives.
So there is a dietary fix for women with PCOS and IR, but since it can be difficult to be diagnosed, many women don't even know they have the problem in the first place. All they know is that they can eat what is considered to be a healthy diet and still gain weight.
I hope that any woman who considers having bypass surgery first is evaluated for PCOS and IR.
And this problem is NOT psychological, and it's not a thyroid problem. Yes, it can be fixed by eating a specialized diet, but only if you know about it--and many people don't. So it's not just about eating less and exercising more.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I know that some people have physical complications such as the above. For instance, a faulty thyroid will wreak all kinds of havoc on one's body (which is something my mother had ).
I do think that physical ailments such as PCOS and thyroid problems are much more rare than the general overweight population of America would like to think they are. Diet and exercise will work 95% of people. It takes drastic, lifestyle-altering changes, but that's the way we are wired. It's good that 30 minutes of exercise a day doesn't wittle us down, because before we had our current sedentary lifestyle, bodies like that would mean no one would survive a hard winter.
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
Cool, katharina is approaching 20k.
Yeah, I was one of those skinny kids who could eat anything and not gain weight...boy does that change as you get going into your 20's. I needed to gain some weight but certainly not as much as I have. I really dislike 'working out' especially with random strangers. Basketball was the most athletic thing I used to do regularly that I miss, even bought a ball the other day. Maybe I can get into during the summer, it stays light really late here now. That and working on turning a good DP with Thomas. Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
I think PCOS is more common than most people think, and that the numbers of women who have it is rising. This is my opinion, of course. I think that it has a lot to do with our (society's) current lifestyle and eating habits. I don't, for example, think this has been a problem for hundreds of years.
But again, this is my opinion, and time will tell. But in the meantime, I would recommend that any woman with at least 2 or 3 of the common PCOS symptoms should get checked out for it--from a competent gynecologist and/or endocrinologist.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
quote:I think that it has a lot to do with our (society's) current lifestyle and eating habits. I don't, for example, think this has been a problem for hundreds of years.
It's kind of a matter of which is causing which, if this is true (which I do not grant).
I mean, if the PCOS comes from a lack of exercise and poor eating habits, then that's even a larger reason to drastically change the exercise and eating habits.
Our current, average, American lifestyle is bad for us. That does mean that in order to look and feel like we have healthier lifetstyles, it takes drastic, permanent change. It always will. The slim people you see over 25 are, with a few exceptions, working very hard at it.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
No, I don't think that PCOS comes from a lack of exercise and poor eating habits, but more as a genetic thing, that has gotten worse over time. *shrugs* I'm not a doctor...
ETA: Okay, that's exactly what I SAID, but it's not what I meant. It's kind of like the reason that I think so many young girls are starting their periods earlier and earlier--there is an emphasis on sex in our culture that is strong, and I think that affects our bodies. So I make the supposition that women with PCOS, and specifically IR, are getting the syndrome from a high-carb diet around puberty, and that they're also affected by the problems their mothers had, and other environmental factors.
But I totally agree that women with PCOS, or any person with a medical condition that makes weight loss more difficult, has to drastically change their exercise and eating habits. My only point was that the same eating habits might not work for those people, and that they have to be aware of their situation and make the appropriate changes for THEIR bodies.
I make that point because some overweight people might be doing everything "right," and not lose any weight, and other people will look at them and scoff and think they just sit around doing nothing but eating chips, when it's simply NOT true. These people are just not aware that a different sort of diet is necessary for a medical condition they didn't even know they had. Knowledge is the answer, and it helps if people are more understanding of that.
ETA: see above...
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
The reason I don't like that argument is not that it's inaccurate, just misleading. People don't need another excuse to not do their best to improve their physical condition.
Conditions like the ones you listed surely exist, but saying that they are the reason why more than a sliver of people aren't losing weight does all of us a disservice.
I'd guess it's more like what katharina said, 5/95 split.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
I will mention that in olden times, it was considered very desirable to be overweight, as it was a sign that you were wealthy and could afford to eat a lot.
So I'd say no, it's not a new problem. Society is not crumbling around us anymore than it's been crumbling around us through all of time.
-pH
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
*shrugs* I have strange theories based on not much at all.
But PCOS and IR is real and more than just a sliver of people have it. You can believe what you like. And it's not an excuse. For all of the PCOS women I know, and I know a lot, all of them are greatly relieved to learn that YES, there is a reason they're not losing weight, and they are overjoyed to learn about a diet that actually WORKS for them. And every single one of them looks at it as a new way of eating for the rest of their lives, not just a diet.
And since it is a diagnosable condition, and not one that is fun to have, I don't think it does anyone a disservice to point it out as a possible problem. If people are pointing at PCOS as an excuse to sit around and not do anything about it, then they'd probably do that with any condition that they could think of, such as thyroid problems.
I just hate the mindset that says, oh, things like PCOS, thyroid, and other problems are SO rare that that fat chick over there probably doesn't have any of them. After all, she's eating something. What a lazy cow. And she might even think that she's so worthless for not losing weight because her doctor isn't competent enough to notice the PCOS signs. (And there are thin PCOS'ers out there. It's not all about being fat.)
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Your last paragraph contains a lot of vitriol. I know I have never thought any of that, and I certainly doubt that anyone else in this thread has.
Saying that vigorous diet and exercise will work for 95% is not passing a judgement on anyone. Life is busy, and while it doesn't take a life devoted to it, it does take some time. I think people are free to set their own priorities, and priorities are most often thrust upon people.
No one in this thread is coming out with scorn towards people who are overweight. I'd never put "just" in front of "diet and exercise." It isn't easy. I do think it's possible.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: Your last paragraph contains a lot of vitriol. I know I have never thought any of that, and I certainly doubt that anyone else in this thread has.
Maybe not explicitly that, but plenty of people probably think "Oh, why is she eating, she's fat enough already."
And the thing is, a lot of times that attitude really does show. Especially since the person is probably already hypersensitive to people thinking/saying bad things towards them.
-pH
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Yup, many people wouldn't dream I have PCOS, cause I am thin. Fortunately my case isn't a severe one.
As for being overweight, in the overweight poor, actually having a doctor at all is progress.
AJ
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Sorry, it does. It's based on a lot of assumptions about people that probably aren't true here. But in my defense, I wasn't talking in particular about anyone here. And there are people like that..
I guess it bothers me that it's still okay to make fun of fat people... one of the last safe targets for mean attacks. I haven't found that to be true HERE, and I don't think that's what's going on.
The thing is, I've been overweight pretty much my whole life, and I've never been treated meanly because of it--not that I remember, anyway. (I do have a tendency to choose to not remember certain things... such as in 8th grade.. those girls could have been mean to me because of my size.) So I'm not really sure why I'm so defensive about it. It could be because it wasn't what was done to me, but rather the lack of attention from boys in high school and things like that. That really bothered me, and so did seeing the fat jokes and mocking on TV and movies. It doesn't bother me anymore, since I'm happily married and simply want to lose weight for my health--but the thought of being judged harshly, albeit silently, because I choose to eat something in public, really raises my hackles. And I feel the same way about ANYONE treated that way. It's not really fair, though, to be offended by things that people may or may not be saying to themselves. But I still believe that it happens.
Sorry for being defensive.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
I totally understand being defensive about this subject, and I'm not trying to marginalize those who do have medical conditions which make it hard or impossible to lose weight.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
It's okay. I can see why the defensiveness would come easily. My mom was very overweight for most of her life, and I know how much she hated it. A lot of people, including people who should know better, dismissed her despite all of her wonderful and great qualities because of it, and that makes me furious.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: A lot of people, including people who should know better, dismissed her despite all of her wonderful and great qualities because of it, and that makes me furious.
This is all too common, though I suspect that it's true for more appearance problems than just weight.
Some people suck.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
quote:but rather the lack of attention from boys in high school and things like that.
Again, I think it is a false assumption to think that being thin automatically equates to male attention particularly in high school.
Many teenage girls with anorexia think exactly that, but it doesn't generally work.
Lol, in my particular case, my level of physical fitness was a turn off for a bunch of guys I was interested in in college. (I use college because my social experiences at high school age were highly irregular, and made normal male attention at the romantic level impossible at a practical level) They told me years later that they'd been totally intimidated by my particular combination of intelligence plus physical fittness. At the time, I was too in shape for your average geek.
AJ
[ June 29, 2006, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Not automatically equates, but it sure would have helped!
But it was a blessing, I think, in the long run. My life could have turned out very differently, and I'm happy with the way it is. But at the time, it bothered me.
Posted by Anna (Member # 2582) on :
It looks like nobody is happy with what they get. I loathed to attract that kind of attention in high school or university, as a matter of fact I still loathe it. People talking to you, trying to seduce you just because a part of your body happens to please them is quite insulting, in my eyes. There's a human being inside the body.
Posted by BaoQingTian (Member # 8775) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina:
quote:For a normal person, working out 3 times a week and not eating dessert all the time is enough to get them into shape.
No, it isn't. Maybe for a teenager, but for average adults, working out for 30 min a day three times a week will keep them treading water. Actually getting into shape requires upping either time, frequency, or both. ...
For everyone, it takes a great deal of exercise to lose weight. When I am working 30 minutes a day several times a week, then I just tread water. I'm not skinny, but I'm not really fat either - basically normal, can still shop in regular stores.
+1
How many of you women trying to lose weight lift weights? I mean seriously lift weights, 3 sessions a week, 45 minutes a session, bench press, squats, deadlifts, etc? Not only does weighlifting provide up to a 72 hour temporary metabolic boost, but you increase your muscle mass which constantly burns more calories even when you are sleeping or watching TV. 19 out of 20 women and probably 9 out of 10 men that I talk to have no clue about any of this unless they've worked with a personal trainer. They're afraid they'll bulk up or something-as if they had massive doses of testosterone running through them. They picture weight lifting as something to make you bigger and weigh more rather than a dieting tool.
I see women at the gym on the cardio machines 3x's a week for months without a change. My wife has gone to the gym almost every day for 3 years and ran 3 miles each time, ate pretty healthy, etc. However she was barely able to maintain her weight. She's been lifting weights now for 2 months, cut her cardio down by 2/3, and lost over 10 lbs. She's also had to change her diet and eat 6 small meals a day. She completely cut out soda, doesn't eat anything resembling junk food, no candy, no dessert except for an ice cream once a week. For some people to suggest that she has it easy because she is in fact losing weight is insulting. She works really hard and sacrifices a lot to do this. Every day is a battle-that is weight loss.
People think diet and they think limiting calories. They think exercise and they think 30 minutes on treadmill 3 times a week. It's so much more complex than that. It's not just counting calories but planning so that you get proper ratios of proper macronutrients at proper times. It's planning exercise routines that will build muscle and pushing yourself to reach those goals every day.
Katarain- Part of a successful diet is changing things up to find what works for you. Carb cycling and timing diets are getting common in the fitness world even for those without the conditions you mentioned. But most people don't try to change things up like that so wonder why it isn't working for them. While a doctor's diagnosis could certainly point people in the right direction more quickly, ideally they would also have discovered the solution themselves.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Adding weight training with aerobic exercise is amazing. Just 15 minutes of light weight training 2 times a week and 30 minutes aerobic 3 times a week to start out with gave me great results. I still don't know why I stopped that. It was stupid. I had gradually worked up to 20 minutes weight training, and 45 of aerobic.
It makes a world of difference. And when I say light, I mean it. I would use the weight machines, but if I couldn't make it to the university gym, I could still get my minutes in at home by doing certain exercises, like sit-ups and wall presses, and those horrible lunges.
Posted by BaoQingTian (Member # 8775) on :
Yeah, it really helps. Don't be afraid to keep getting heavier though, otherwise you'll plateau as your muscles adapt to the stress you put on them and stop growing. One thing I recommend is lots of compound movements (as opposed to isolation), even for women. Dips, bench press, squats, deadlifts, and pullups are great. This will lead to the greatest increase of muscle (they'll get denser).
Posted by Kristen (Member # 9200) on :
This is exactly what I am trying to refer to: all the work that one has to put into exercise/diet. I look at Bao's post and simply FEEL exhausted. Perhaps, I didn't realize that most everybody needs to do a lot of work, but what I said about not wanting it to rule my life--planning out all my meals and drinks, making time for the gym+other exercise over 4 x a week--still holds.
Living a completely stationary and ice cream-infused life is definitely irresponsible, but it's not the lazy person's way out to not commit to THAT level of dieting and exercise during their first few decades when they have numerous other priorities, especially if their thin friends don't have to, and they are only overweight, not legitimately fat. Unfortunately, when they realize that they have to (aka. their metabolism slows, they are consistently gaining weight, or something), it's even harder to make such changes, and that is why gastric bypass is so helpful: it at least helps them with the eating control part of it, which is arguably the most difficult. They shouldn't be stigmatized for recognizing their limitations.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
I'd love to see some studies done on the level of exercise really needed by different people to lose and maintain weight. I still tend towards the idea that this varies greatly in different people, small and large.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
If making time for exercise five days a week is too much work, then a gastric bypass will not be successful. Unfortunately, for most people with average metabolisms and an average American lifestyles, there's simply no way to get out of that work. I know it sucks, but it sucks to have to go to work for eight hours a day as well. It'd be nice to have a trust fund, but I don't. It would be nice to have the metabolism of a hummingbird (like Matt does), but I don't. There's no way around that.
Posted by aretee (Member # 1743) on :
quote: How many of you women trying to lose weight lift weights?
*raises hand*
Last year when I was doing pretty darn good, that's what I was doing. Remember my husband lost 150lbs on his own and that is how he did it. He's my trainer and he's good. I can't lift weights yet (haven't been cleared by the surgeon), but I plan to. Man, that's when the inches come off and that is exciting. I don't watch the scale so much when I'm into weight training.
I'm sitting here eating tuna! This is the first day I am allowed mushy food. Ah, something more than liquids. I ate about1.5oz 2 hours ago and I hope to finish the 1.5oz now. I also had 1/3 of an egg (scrambled) for breakfast. It's a lot to get used to, that's for sure.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
I don't think my personal level is all that high, really. Small amounts of exercise make a big difference in my weight loss.
Posted by aretee (Member # 1743) on :
Dang, you guys reply too fast!
quote: If making time for exercise five days a week is too much work, then a gastric bypass will not be successful.
Amen, sister friend.
Posted by BaoQingTian (Member # 8775) on :
Kristen-
I'll agree, it's a lot of work. I don't mean to suggest it is easy. However, it doesn't exactly dominate my life. It's part of it...like showering or sleeping or something. It's just something I know I've got to do every day. I still have time to work on & ride my motorcycle, work 9 hours, play video games, spend time with my wife, watch movies and TV, go up to Tahoe, start working on my MBA, etc.
Most of the work comes upfront. About half of that work is just getting educated. There's a lot of good material out there to wade through, but I've found people to be very helpful. About 30% of the work is planning. Figuring out your base metabolic rate, how many calories to take in and planning your diet, planning your exercise routines, etc.
About 10% of it is recording what you eat, how many sets, reps, and exercises you do with what weights, making the small adjustments as needed, weighing, measuring, and checking body fat percentage, etc.
The last 10% is just the day in day out determination it takes to stick to it. This may seem hard at first, however, once it becomes a habit it hardly takes any effort at all.
Honestly for me the hardest part of getting in shape was getting the ball moving. It's hard cause if you're a guy, you feel less than manly when you pop a ten on each side of the bar for a benchpress, and the guy across the gym has 2 or 3 45s on each side. It's hard for girls when you see that girl with the great body jogging next to you when you're jiggling in all the wrong places as you run. Also weights are hard because you have no idea what you're doing and are a big shy about asking for help.
It sounds like a lot, but really health is so important. There's an old Arab saying that says something like, "He who has health has hope. And he who has hope has everything." I've found I'm a lot more energetic and efficient all day by spending that hour in the gym- it kind of pays for itself.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
quote:Originally posted by pH: I will mention that in olden times, it was considered very desirable to be overweight, as it was a sign that you were wealthy and could afford to eat a lot.
Life expetancies in "olden times" were significantly shorter, and there were plenty of other things to die from well before things like heart disease normally start to cause problems.
Posted by BaoQingTian (Member # 8775) on :
Yay aretee! Egg whites and tuna--sooo good for you. You might want to check out these eggs called VitaEggs by Wilcox Farms I think. Supposedly they are free chickens (not Tyco style cages) fed with quality foods supplimented with flaxseed oil. They have like 1/3 less cholesterol than normal eggs plus some more of those essential Omega 3s and 6s. Only downer is they're about twice as spendy.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
quote:Originally posted by Katarain: I'd love to see some studies done on the level of exercise really needed by different people to lose and maintain weight. I still tend towards the idea that this varies greatly in different people, small and large.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure there's a HUGE difference. Everyone's body is different, and everyone has different metabolisms and general body structure. So yeah, I think it's pretty obvious that some people are going to have more results from workouts than others.
Y'know, I really wish that people would remember that...celebrities and stuff, they don't HAVE day jobs. They can afford (in both time and money) to work with a trainer for three hours a day, five times a week, if they want. They can hire chefs to make sure they eat right and cook their food for them. And it's really easy to say that oh, losing weight is nothing, when you weren't that heavy to begin with, and you've already done it.
-pH
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
quote:Originally posted by twinky:
quote:Originally posted by pH: I will mention that in olden times, it was considered very desirable to be overweight, as it was a sign that you were wealthy and could afford to eat a lot.
Life expetancies in "olden times" were significantly shorter, and there were plenty of other things to die from well before things like heart disease normally start to cause problems.
It still doesn't mean that obesity is a new thing. And it definitely doesn't mean that people were healthier with their eating habits back then.
-pH
Posted by Kristen (Member # 9200) on :
If I had to condense what I wish to convey it would be this:
Weight loss is personal, on almost every level. What works and what is easy for certain people isn't for others, and could be nearly impossble to put into practice for others. For that reason, it is important to not immediately judge those who are obese and those who get gastric bypass surgery as simply not being committed enough. There are a lot of factors which could lead to an individual becoming morbidly obese and there are also reasons why said individual can't shed the weight without extreme measures.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I believe that.
I also believe that it's important to have correct information out there. If someone thinks that by cutting out desserts and getting an hour and a half of cardio a week they should be losing weight, then they'll be dissapointed when it doesn't happen.
That's like thinking a few hours of piano a week will turn someone into pianist. It won't, and thinking that it should could discourage many people who would be happy musicians if they had a true idea of how much effort it actually takes. Musicians don't count practice as time lost from their real lives, but they incorporate it into their real lives.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
The thing is, kat, that some people CAN do that. Which makes it all the more frustrating for the people who can't. And of course, we have all of these diet ads running around about "eat real food! Do no exercise! Lose 85lbs!"
-pH
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
They are the exception. And they are probably young. Some people also have trust funds and all their expenses paid, but that's not normal either. And most of them are also young.
I get the frustration - no desserts and 30 min of cardio three times a week does nothing beyond maintenance and some psychological boosts for me. I know people, including Matt, with body types that would allow them to have brie for three meals a day and still never need to get a new belt, but it's just not a realistic expectation.
Posted by Kristen (Member # 9200) on :
Katharina: You are absolutely right. As Bao said, education is a major component of weight loss. There is so much junk science about dieting and health food that I think it is imperative people seek the most accurate information possible, and it is important to correct what you believe is wrong information.
On the other hand, I do think that people should lose weight if they do cardio and cut out desserts and here is why: we are told that if we limit out caloric intake, then over time we will lose weight. Cutting out desserts and exercising more does exactly that. While nothng dramatic should happen from a change of about an average of -200 calories a day, there should be SOME kind of effect over, let's say, a month or two.
But, for people like me, there isn't. Even losing 10 pounds would take an overhaul of everything I eat (and I have pretty good eating habits) and how I spend my days. By using that example, I was just trying to illustrate the differences in metabolisms among people, and that equates to massively different levels of effort and lifestyle change being required to lose weight.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
quote:Originally posted by pH: It still doesn't mean that obesity is a new thing.
The prevalence of obesity in contemporary North America is a comparatively new development. For example, here are some child obesity statistics from the Institute of Medicine (part of the National Academy of Sciences). From the link:
quote:Over the past three decades, the childhood obesity rate has more than doubled for preschool children aged 2-5 years and adolescents aged 12-19 years, and it has more than tripled for children aged 6-11 years. At present, approximately nine million children over 6 years of age are considered obese.
quote:Originally posted by pH: And it definitely doesn't mean that people were healthier with their eating habits back then.
I didn't suggest that diets were healthier "back then," but if you want to bring that into the discussion, are you asserting that they weren't? Also, you still haven't defined what you mean by "back then" and "olden times."
There's a correlation that I think is worthy of note. Look at the childhood obesity trend timeline in my link above and then what Wikipedia reports (with reference) as the change in consumer spending on fast food between 1970 and 2000. Even adjusting that $6 billion for inflation, that's quite an increase.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
If you lessened it by 200 calories and day and the amount of exercise described above, you should expect to lose two pounds in a month. If you followed it religiously. Three desserts in that month and you just knocked it all out of whack.
It's just not enough physical activity to make a difference, and it doesn't take into account what else is being eaten. A bowl of ice cream foregone one day can be quickly replaced by a bagel the next. I'm actually not surprised nothing much happened - it's not enough.
I went from no exercise to light workouts three days a week for four months, and nothing happened except my mood improved. To actually lose ten pounds, I had to have workouts for an hour five days a week, add in weight-training, and radically change my eating habits. That's normal - that's what it takes for the average person.
For most people, it isn't productive to look at someone young with fast metabolism and say that's normal. It isn't - it's the exception. If you do not lose weight as quickly as that person, that does not mean there is something off with your metabolism. It is much more likely that your metabolism is completely what it should be expected to be, and you have to make radical changes.
I don't think it is any one person. I think the entire average American's lifestyle is condusive to being overweight. To not be in the course of you lifetime, you have to break radically with it. It sucks, but there it is.
Have you ever seen comparisons to see how the average portion size has grown in the past forty years? Restaurants serve in one meal enough food to feed three-five people. Bagels are bigger. Hamburgers are bigger. We simply eat more than we used to, and it isn't from gluttony. I'm not pointing fingers - I'm trying to convey that being slim requires, for most people, a radical change.
My irritation with being born in a weight-gaining age is somewhat mollified by air conditioning, cell phones, and the existence of Veronica Mars.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Using the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics inflation calculator (rather than just an average inflation rate for the 1970-2000 period), that US$6 billion in 1970 equates to US$26.63 billion in 2000, and US$31.31 billion in 2006.
Taking 1970-2000, that's about a fourfold increase in spending ($26.6b to $110b) in tandem with a threefold increase in childhood obesity. I'm certainly not suggesting that fast food is the sole or even dominant cause, but I do think there's enough of a correlation to merit closer examination (at least some of which I suspect has already been done).
Added: kat, that's an interesting point about portion sizes.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Seeing as I am maintaining my weight without any exercise, and losing weight when I make very simple diet changes, I'm quite sure that 1 1/2 hours of aerobic exercise would make a huge difference in my weight. I might lose the same percentage of body weight as a thin person would doing the same thing, but since I'm heavier, that percentage equals more pounds.
If I were closer to my ideal weight, I wouldn't expect 1 1/2 hours of exercise a week to do much. But it will do a world of good for someone who has a lot to lose.
I just wanted to point this out, because overweight people might read what you said, Kat, and figure that since it's SO hard to even lose 10 pounds, they might as well not even try. But it will actually be much easier for them! It just gets harder as you go, in a way... you've gotta up your activity. But it is gradual and doable.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
I also wish people would remember that celebrities and such who look so spectacular have both the time and the money to do that. And they can hire chefs to cook them really healthy food.
I dunno. I just think it's really easy for thin people to say, "Wow, losing weight is so easy, so you must not be putting in enough effort."
-pH
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
I definitely agree with that, pH.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
No kidding. Kate Hudson lost her baby weight by working out three hours a day. For normal people, that's impossible - who watches the baby? For people who go to work, that's also impossible unless their commute is five minutes and they have zero other life.
The super-thin models generally have hummingbird metabolisms.
I am not thin, and I don't think it's easy to lose weight. I do think it is possible, and the lifestyle change is worth it.
Posted by BaoQingTian (Member # 8775) on :
I don't think anyone is saying that it's easy pH. What Kat and I are saying is, It's hard and some people might not be putting in enough effort perhaps because of a perception based on a very small segment of the population (those people that are skinny without having to do much).
I completely agree with what you said about celebrities and models.
I hate Hate HATE those ads that say, Lose 18 pounds in 4 days, blah blah blah. If you are doing the absolutely PERFERCT diet and exercise routine, you can expect to lose 2 lbs of body fat (a week or about 1% of your body weight if you are very obese). That's it, 2 pounds a week. So 18 pounds would take a minimum of 9 weeks, most likely closer to 3 months. It didn't get put on overnight, and it's not coming off overnight. However, the ads give people the perception that it should come off in about 1/20th of the time it really takes. Even if the ad is disbelieved, I think the impression stays with people. That somehow everyone should be able to lose weight like the 2 people in the pictures and because they can't, they're something wrong with them.
Many people who diet are not eating enough, also probably due to sterotypes of salad diets. They'll eat maybe 1000 calories a day trying to lose weight faster. However, this makes the body go into starvation mode, and slows the metabolism down to a crawl. Additionally, it makes the body save the fats because they have twice the energy per gram than either protein or carbs. So the body starts to eat muscle, further slowing the metabolism.
There's just all sorts of misinformation out there, and I really wish I could combat it.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Is that Hollywood juice diet still being sold at drugstores? That one freaked me out.
Pretty much you buy this special juice, and that's all you can have (and I think water) for 48 hours, so you can lose 10 lb. really quickly if you have to, I don't know, fit into a dress that you bought for some reason even though it was too small for you or something.
Ew.
And as for misinformation...oh yes. One of the gyms I was looking at said that they wouldn't LET me come in more than 30min, twice a week, and that that would be enough for me to see results in less than 6 weeks if I'm trying to build muscle.
-pH
Posted by BaoQingTian (Member # 8775) on :
pH- Was it Curves? Because my wife was really not impressed with them.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
No, it was a by-appointment personal training place. I also found Curves disappointing. But I liked Shapes, which is I think sort of the same company, but much more gym-y, with lots of machines and classes and not as much emphasis on that thirty-minute workout thing.
-pH
Posted by aretee (Member # 1743) on :
Have you seen Penn and Tellers show BS? They did one on fad diets and it was pretty funny.
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
But the bottom line is that you can change your dietary habits. It takes time and effort, but you can do it. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
My friend died of it, and she didn't have to. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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