Man arrives before the throne of the Divine, and, unbending, he says “I am thine indeed and thou art father. Is what I have wrought not pleasing to you, my Lord? Have I not sent heavenward a thousand poems, more precious than prayers; a thousand symphonies, more precious than hymns? Have not the tilled fields of earth, however often they are tilled with trenches rather than crops, created a scent more pleasing to you than incense? Have not our skyscrapers, however clouded in smog, been silver spires turning the world into a temple of your worship? From the depths of primordial pools we have risen and mastered creation through intellect, although we have often failed and resembled the animals wence we came, violent and treacherous, loyal and loving to our families but distrustful of that which is different. And yet, we prevailed in our ceaseless march to Israel, however long we spent in desert. Are you not proud of your children, Father? Is not humanity pleasing to you, my Lord?”
And the Divine answers “Yes, humanity is truly pleasing.”
This owes much to Robert Ardrey, of whom I have spoken before.
[ July 18, 2006, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: Pelegius ]
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
Pelegius, surely by now you know exactly where this thread is going to end up.
Posted by narrativium (Member # 3230) on :
Actually, that post was readable. I wouldn't say it makes a coherent point, but at least it could serve as a jumping-off point for discussion.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
It seems to me that the question is rather whether the Christian god is pleasing to humanity. Assuming for a moment that the entity described in the Bible exists, does it deserve worship? You know my answer.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
We do?
...
//snarky
Yeah, we do.
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
I did not refer to he God of any religion, but to the divine.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
ricree in all honesty I think this thread was much easier to read. I'd respond but I simply do not have time to articulate the thoughts I had, I am almost done with work for the day! Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pelegius: I did not refer to he God of any religion, but to the divine.
Don't be ridiculous. Your post absolutely reeks of the Christian approach to the divine. You think the Buddha cares about the 'silver towers of our skyscrapers', or whatever?
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by King of Men:
quote:Originally posted by Pelegius: I did not refer to he God of any religion, but to the divine.
Don't be ridiculous. Your post absolutely reeks of the Christian approach to the divine. You think the Buddha cares about the 'silver towers of our skyscrapers', or whatever?
gah! I lied, actually yes KOM. Buddha would say that for a person skilled in building a sky scraper would be a good expression of that purpose. Certainly I have seen some pretty elaborate Buddhist monestaries that were very tall and very large in size. The priests said, "The higher our spires, the greater the heights our wisdom can attain."
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pelegius: I did not refer to he God of any religion, but to the divine.
Then what's with the reference to Israel?
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
And the divine answers: "Have you seen my keys? I left them around here somewhere."
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I'd be more worried about, the divine saying, "I forgot where I sent my deadly plague, have you seen it?"
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
And the divine answers: "Whoa! Holy carp! Don't sneak up on me like that! Who the heck ARE you anyway? Oh, I'm sorry, were you talking to me? I was watching these beetles fornicate and totally lost track of time. Fascinating creatures, beetles. Truly among my favorites. Right after bacilli... ... Hmm...man, you say? Oh, yeah, asks a lot of questions, not very obedient, likes to name things. Noisy species overall. Not like beetles.
...
Okay, now look, I'm very busy. Why don't you go play for awhile. I'll call you when it's time to come in."
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bob_Scopatz: And the divine answers: "Have you seen my keys? I left them around here somewhere."
All good Catholics know he gave them to Peter...
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
And the divine answers: "Man, yeah, you lot are alright. But wait'll you see what comes after you. I'm thinking wings and prehensile tails and a sex drive that just won't quit. Hoo doggies, that's gonna be fun!"
Posted by kwsni (Member # 1831) on :
I think Bob should write God's lines in screenplays.
Ni!
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jim-Me:
quote:Originally posted by Bob_Scopatz: And the divine answers: "Have you seen my keys? I left them around here somewhere."
All good Catholics know he gave them to Peter...
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I don't see much new in your theology, Pelegius.
There's STILL nothing new under the sun. Vanity, vanity, all is vanity.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
and the divine said:
"Israel? You've been marching to Israel? Oh, that's where you'd gone off to. What did you want to go there for? It's practically a desert, no natural resources to speak of, hotter than blazes (and I should know!). So, like, what, did you all just get tired and stop for a few thousand years? I mean, criminy sakes, a few hundred more miles in any direction and you could've been in the fertile crescent, back at the crossroads of the great rivers, or basking in the beautiful Mediterranean. Do you not like beaches? I mean c'mon when I said "flowing with milk and honey" didn't you kind of wonder when you crossed the Jordan and saw scrub brush and salt flats?"
"Oh, and the poems, please! Half the time there's no meter and it doesn't even pretend to rhyme. And what, did I need a bunch of poems praising pottery or visages? Seriously. Or that depressing nonsense that people write when their prescriptions run out? Well at least it's not the bloody psalms "Oh thank you God for making my enemies afraid of me! over and over and over. It's torture I tell you."
"Poems about beetles. Now that'd be nice once in awhile."
"And I could go an eternity without seeing another sky-scraper, thank you very much. They haven't had anything resembling style since Babel, and you know what happened to them, I assume. Look, I don't mind you all digging up metal and making things, idle hands and all, but don't expect me to run down here and take snapshots and stick 'em on the mantlepiece everytime you pile two bricks atop one another. It's like the entire group of you is on some bipolar merry-go-round. Half the time, you lack the self-esteem to stand up for what's right, and the other half of the time you're so full of yourselves you actually think I'm cheering for you as you break each other's heads."
"If it weren't for the fact that I really enjoy a good laugh, I'd've started the whole thing over by now."
Posted by Cavalier (Member # 3918) on :
The new theology seems much like the old Christian theology cosmetically revamped for someone living in a liberal (international usage of liberal, not the US usage as a synonym for progressive) democracy. I'd note the appeal to egalitarianism ('Man arrives before the throne of the Divine, and,unbending,...'), a belief in rational self-improvement/criticism (the various references to the imperfections in mankind's crafts, and a modernist type belief in the value of grand projects and narratives (all the projects seem to reflect a degree of grandeur). [academic aside] Have you read any Arendt Pel, especially The Human Condition? I'd posit that this theology seems specifically tailored for Home faber as opposed to most religions that would seem to appeal to Animal laborans. If you're familiar I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on that observation [/academic aside]
Tell me what you think.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
"Poem," by Beetle.
:ahem:
Rolling, rolling, rolling It gets nice and swollen, Keep this doo-doo rolling, Crapball! Don't try to understand it It's really just a ball of **** Roll it on, move it out Move it out, roll it on Roll it on, move it out CRAPBAAAAALL!
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Scott...I didn't know you could sing scat!
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
Then what's with the reference to Israel? Largly western audience, good metaphor.
Posted by ssasse (Member # 9516) on :
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: "Poem," by Beetle.
*gut-laughter
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
Scott, that is amazing. If I were a deity, I'd definitely be proud of humanity because of that poem.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Pel:
What the crap are you talking about?
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I'm trying to decide which is funnier--Scott's poem or Bob's response. Until we figure it out we won't know who won the thread!
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Rule Three of Hatrack: The one with the highest post count wins
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*dryly* Were that true, Tom would always win.
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
Only if he posted in the thread. Right now, Bob's winning.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I say you're wrong.
And I have more posts than you.
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
"You think the Buddha cares about the 'silver towers of our skyscrapers', or whatever?" I thin Buddha, who is not viewed as a God in most traditions, would indeed be surportive of Le Corbusier's City of Towers for its urban planing, although I have my doubts as to his suport for its architecture. And I second BlackBlade about Buddhist Temples.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
I think that for Christians. God has pretty much told us what's going to be on the exam. Scott mentioned it the other day:
quote: Matthew 25
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee asick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
Kate! you semi-pelagian, you! how dare you bring up works in the economy of salvation! Posted by JennaDean (Member # 8816) on :
How do the works-don't-affect-salvation people interpret that scripture?
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
Pel, while perhaps interesting poetry, prose whatever it is meant to be, this doesn't bring up a topic for discussion, it doesn't ask any questions for us to answer. what kind of responses are you expecting from this kind of thing?
while still fairly arcane it is at least somewhat readable, but my only possible response is: what kind of response am I supposed to give this?
it's like if I had started a thread and just put: "The sun doth shine and the moon doth glow." sure it's a fun line from an amusing song but it doesn't lead to a discussion...
so please, what are you trying to get at here?
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
Well, considering that my argument is, KoM's objections aside, incredibly deviant from orthodox Judeo-Christian-Islamic thought, it should create quite a lively debate for such a religiously mixed forum.
Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
I'm not sure I agree that the image you presented really deviates from Christianity all that much. I suppose it does in that "Man" is not cowering before God or being very respectful.
So basically, Man goes before God and says, "Look at all of the fantastic things we have done! Regardless of the horrible things we have also done, aren't we great?" And God says, "Yes, you are great."
I think that in this "New Theology" Man is rather condescending to God, a route I would think is best avoided. If God does not follow up his agreement with a quick lightning bolt to Man's head, he's no kind of God at all.
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
I think that the servant-master view is highly overemphasized, if it is valid at all, and the parent-child view highly underemphasized.
Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
In a parent-child view, the child here is being impertinent. If it were mine I would tell it, "Yes, that is a great block tower, but you shouldn't brag and show off. You need to learn humility. Now go do your chores."
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:I think that the servant-master view is highly overemphasized, if it is valid at all, and the parent-child view highly underemphasized.
Why would you say that the servant-master view is not valid? Certainly in Christian theology, it is supported by scripture. (See kmboots quote above for an example)
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
I am not a big fan, to put it mildly, of arguments centered on the primacy of any one scripture.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by narrativium: Actually, that post was readable. I wouldn't say it makes a coherent point, but at least it could serve as a jumping-off point for discussion.
Readable? "I thine indeed" is readable?
Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
I agree (with Pel's post), in that the Its-In-The-Bible argument has doubtfully changed anybody's mind. IMO, theological discussions (specifically those that are not concentrating solely on Christianity) should be based on ideas that can be backed up with solid reasoned arguments, not passages from arcane and potentially misrepresented/misinterpreted books.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Pel, I'm skeptical of the argument that thought is the equivalent of prayer, and achievement the equivalent of worship. Because there's no room required in those definitions for humility or submission, both of which are generally expected in these scenarios.
Posted by JennaDean (Member # 8816) on :
quote:I think that the servant-master view is highly overemphasized, if it is valid at all, and the parent-child view highly underemphasized.
I prefer the parent-child view, myself; but a good parent doesn't ignore all the horrible stuff their child has done and only praise his acocmplishments. A good parent is loving and merciful, yes, but also expects obedience and respect from the child. A good parent tries to teach the child the right way to live - not because the parent is on a power trip, but because the parent wants the child to be happy and knows that certain behaviors are going to lead to misery.
More like this:
"Mom, I know I broke all your plates, but look at the mosaic I made with them! Isn't it pretty? Aren't you proud of me?"
"Yes, it's beautiful; but you still broke all my plates. You have not learned respect for other people's things. We need to decide together how you are going to replace them. Once you have done that, we could give you the opportunity to create art without destrying things."
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
Lisa, isn't Shakespeare taught in Israeli schools? I should think it was, although the "I am thine indeed and thou art father" was a reference to Pope's translation of the Odyssey, the two writers used much the same language, Pope's being more modern.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Pel, isn't covering your tracks taught in Texas prep schools? You added the "am" in "I am thine..." then 4 minutes later snottily quoted the corrected version. I wondered about that "I thine indeed" as well.
Don't try to be sneaky.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
You missed an 'am' in the original post, then, which does rather spoil the readability.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jim-Me: Kate! you semi-pelagian, you! how dare you bring up works in the economy of salvation!
In that particular instance, I wasn't talking about what gets us saved; I was talking about what makes God pleased with us. But your accusation is still apt. Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
Morbo, I reserve the right to edit my posts for spelling and clarity and for any other reason I see fit, which is in perfect accordance with the rules of this forum.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
quote:Originally posted by Noemon: I'm trying to decide which is funnier--Scott's poem or Bob's response. Until we figure it out we won't know who won the thread!
I'm sorry, but Jim-Me won the thread waaaay back with the Peter reference. I literally laughed out loud at that.
Posted by BaoQingTian (Member # 8775) on :
I don't think that it was the editing that he took offense at Pelegius. Rather, I think it was that you failed to acknowledge your edit in the subsequent post directed at Lisa. You acted like the meaning should have been perfectly clear from the start, when in fact it was not.
Posted by JennaDean (Member # 8816) on :
quote:I'm sorry, but Jim-Me won the thread waaaay back with the Peter reference. I literally laughed out loud at that.
So did I. Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
*bows*
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pelegius: Morbo, I reserve the right to edit my posts for spelling and clarity and for any other reason I see fit, which is in perfect accordance with the rules of this forum.
Then have the honesty to recognize that the post you were responding to was written before you edited. Say, "Oh, thanks for the heads-up. I left out the word 'am'. Let me go edit that." Instead, you changed it, and then responded to my post as though the "am" had been there in the first place.
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
Even with the word am missing, the meaning of the post was clear, if not gramaticly correct. I believed then, although I may have been wrong, that it was the phrasing "I am thine indeed," with or without the verb that annoyed you.
Posted by JennaDean (Member # 8816) on :
Okay, Pelegius, try this with me, just once:
"Oops. Sorry."
Come on, you can do it!
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
Actually, I thought then and think now, that Lisa was not confused by the post but was using it as yet another chance to air her personal animosity towards me, and indeed, towards all non-Israelis. Yes, Lisa, I am sure that I would never have made that typo were I educated in Israel, just as I would instantly see the light and begin to understand politics from your perspective.
Or, to rephrase, I would have reacted very differently has anyone other than Lisa, with whom I have a long and extremely unpleasant history that has stretched across three different fora.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Now that's interesting. You managed to take your insult toward Lisa and Israeli education and turn it into a slight against you. That's masterful, (to the degree that the devil is a genius, anyway).
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pelegius: Morbo, I reserve the right to edit my posts for spelling and clarity and for any other reason I see fit, which is in perfect accordance with the rules of this forum.
You might also want to remove the superfluous of in the last sentence of your first post. It's a common error when you try to avoid stranding the preposition and then revert to normal English halfway through the sentence.
I fought the urge to nitpick that for a full nineteen hours (yes, I had nightmares about it).
*pats self on back*
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
Thank you, I shall.
Karl, I certainly did not mean to deride Israeli education, only the viewpoint often presented to me that only Israelis are enlightened, and to disagree with one is to be wrong. Lisa has said something to this effect, and a poster named Hannibal was quite explicit about it.
Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :
quote: Lisa, I am sure that I would never have made that typo were I educated in Israel, just as I would instantly see the light and begin to understand politics from your perspective.
Nice use of the straw man. I applaud your insight and argumentative skills. My respect for you has changed. I bow in awe and wonder Lord Pel.
Lord Pel
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Sweet llamas of the Bahamas! I finally see why people have given up on you here. It's not just your writing, Pelegius. You really are insufferably snotty, and unable to acknowledge any fault, even when you're nose is rubbed in it like a naughty puppy.
Good luck with that attitude.
Lisa quoted 3 words from your post that make no sense. You corrected it so that it made sense, insulted her, then later claimed she would have attacked the same phrase with or with out the missing "am".
Whatever. . .
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pelegius: Thank you, I shall.
Karl, I certainly did not mean to deride Israeli education, only the viewpoint often presented to me that only Israelis are enlightened, and to disagree with one is to be wrong. Lisa has said something to this effect, and a poster named Hannibal was quite explicit about it.
My point is that your pride is so vast that faced with the dishonesty of editing your post (and seeming to pretend you didn't*), rather than appologize for your part in the misunderstanding, you choose to further attack the offended party, dragging in things that have absolutely no bearing on the issue at hand. An appology was in order and you chose an additional insult and a smokescreen, apparently hoping that since so many people disagree with Lisa's political views they won't care that you are rude and dishonest when dealing with her. I care. And I've refrained from jumping on the "P's style sucks" bandwagon. I don't care so much about your style of writing, but your conduct is pretty low class.
(* I say "seeming to pretend you didn't" so as to acknowledge the possibility that you are that socially blind, and not being purposely devious.)
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
I responded to Lisa's views in a manner indicative of the two years of near-constant strife between us. She has called me everything from puerile to anti-SemItic, this is no longer, in any way, a political debate. And yet, if I am to be defensive, I am accused "hoping that since so many people disagree with Lisa's political views they won't care that you are rude and dishonest when dealing with her." As opposed to you, who clearly hope that so many people dislike me that they will not care that you rudely attacked me. I fear you may be right on that count, but you remain wrong in your charges.
The fact of the matter, which you naturally ignore because it does not suit your purposes, is that Lisa did not give any indication of the fact that she found the post difficult to comprehend because of the verb, she instead called unreadable, which is usually an attack on style unless otherwise noted. Seeing that I had made a mistake in grammar I corrected it and then defended my style. I maintain the justifiable nature of my actions, although it is doubtless of no concern to those who seek out opportunities to attack me. Nothing I have ever said has even been of any effect to certain members, Lisa by far the most prominent among them, and I can see no indication that this shall change now.
I wonder if it as ever occurred to you, sitting there and accusing me of a thousand faults with your every word dripping with acrid hatred how you appear? You have called me naïve, and I am perhaps naïve, you have called me presumptuous, and I am perhaps presumptuous, I have been called proud and am doubtless soyou have called me many foul things and they may all be true, for you are an honoralble man. One thing is certain and I pray that it is evident to all who read my words— I have never borne the ill will towards any person that has been constantly thrown at me by my detractors.
Here I stand as myself and as no other, assailed from all sides and yet I shall not bend to pressures, however great. In the end I may also snap, although I hope to weather the storm, "there are dreams that cannot be and there are storms we cannot weather."
What bitter irony it appears to me that my thread on the inherent nobility of humanity has been turned into yet another breeding pool of malice for humanity to drag itself into the primordial swamp, whence it came.
Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :
There are only two explanations about Pel's behavior that I can imagine. Either he is pulling us along to see how far we will go (and he is a Master Manipulator) or he really doesn't/can't get it.
Either way, it is a waste of time.
The discussions to help and assits him have been poignant, thought out, and many times nuetral.
He is a waste of time. I look forward to the day I see his posts quickly fall off the page.
As for me, this is it. I really am done.
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
It is easy, is it not, to ignore what bothers you? I ignored the malice directed towards me for some time, until it grew within me so that it erupted as a vast volcano, sending fire and ash into the cold and impersonal night.
Posted by Cavalier (Member # 3918) on :
Sorry to interrupt all of the bickering, but I'm still waiting to hear how the new theology isn't just generic monotheism with a few teaspoons of Liberal philosophy stirred in.
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
"Either he is pulling us along to see how far we will go (and he is a Master Manipulator) or he really doesn't/can't get it." Or perhaps he is a human being with human emotion who bleeds when he is pricked and angers when he was wrong. Hath I not a heart in your eyes, hath I no soul? Even the smallest fox, when caught in the snares of life will chew through his own leg rather than remain trapped by the malice of humanity, for the fox has long ago learnt to stand alone and has no pack to rescue him.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
I didn't know you has such a history with Lisa. But still, you're wrong. The sentence was unreadable because it was missing a verb, which you quickly edited in [edit:(see, this is how it's done, you git!) after it was pointed out to you], then pretended you hadn't. Get over yourself.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:...until it grew within me so that it erupted as a vast volcano, sending fire and ash into the cold and impersonal night.
Was that eruption an explosion of Lava or would you have called it "fundo humus?"
edited for clarity.
Posted by JennaDean (Member # 8816) on :
Deleted because it's way too late.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pelegius: Or, to rephrase, I would have reacted very differently has anyone other than Lisa, with whom I have a long and extremely unpleasant history that has stretched across three different fora.
Three? Who are you?
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
For the sake of contrition, let me say that I have done the same thing as Pelegius.
When I was new to the forum, sometime in 2003, I was arguing something with someone, possibly Rakeesh. I edited a comment, and Rakeesh busted me for it. I'm not sure what I did next--I think I just admitted to it and moved on.
But I am sure I didn't have a pearl-clutching swoon-fest of a soliloquy over multiple posts involving honor, malice, volcanoes, a fox, and a pack of wolves out to get me. Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
*snort*
Where's you sense of dramatic urgency, Morbo?
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
Yes, Pelegius is fast moving from someone wortht talking through his issues to someone worth egging on to see what dramatic sweeping complaint he'll make next.
I wonder if he's related to Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings?
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
so I'm starting to manage to turn off my brain when I see things posted by Pel now... if you just look at it and laugh the whole thing is quite humerous, though it definately requires an almost complete lack of higher brain function to do so...
so I'd advise the rest of you, just turn off your brains and have fun with these posts, it's either that or force yourself to have a brain anurism which is frankly not worth it.
btw, I'm still waiting for an explanation of what you were trying to say with the initial post, what kind of response you expected/expect etc...
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
btw Pel, if you could refrain from quoting Les Mis at me, it offends my senses and insults such a great work.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: *snort*
Where's you sense of dramatic urgency, Morbo?
Why, how dare you sir! Cannot even a fly caught in a spider's web forego drama for clarity's sake, ere he's devoured? Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?!
My seconds will call on you to make arrangements!
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
quote:I wonder if it as ever occurred to you, sitting there and accusing me of a thousand faults with your every word dripping with acrid hatred how you appear?
Um, this seems to be in response to my post, but reason demands I second guess myself. Unless that "you" means "everyone who has ever slighted me" it's pure hyperbole taken so far as to be meaningless blather. For the record, though, I thought quite a bit about how I might appear to others in my post and was very careful to word it the way I did so that I am not ashamed of it, even if others disagree with me.
quote:You have called me naïve, and I am perhaps naïve, you have called me presumptuous, and I am perhaps presumptuous,
I have called you neither naive, nor presumptuous. I did call you rude, dishonest, and proud (used as a negative). I'll now add to that "liar" since you clearly don't care about the facts if they get in the way of your drama.
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
My drama, why that is dramatic irony indeed! I create a thread about human nobility, and then I am criticized because I edited my first post for grammar and then defended its style. I did not defend its grammar, but yet my defense of myself has provided yet another opportunity for me to be attacked.
"proud (used as a negative)" I have pride in my humanity, that was the message I tried to send and it was this pride, this indefensible pride, that I am now attacked.
This has never been about one incident and always been about me. I cannot write about humanity or any other issue without it turning, against my will, into a discussion of me and all my faults. Even if every word of slander spoken against me is true, am I so guilty that I am to be denied the right to speak?
"Who are you?" You know who I am.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
You're BATMAN!
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
And starLisa, don't be petty. Critisizing someone's grammar when their meaning is perfectly clear is just trifling.
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
"a soliloquy over multiple posts involving honor" all communications over internet fora take the form of soliloquies, and on what topic but honor should I post when it is my honor, my humanity itself, which is under attack?
[Edited for Grammar, lest this post too be a weapon to my detractors.]
Posted by Cavalier (Member # 3918) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pelegius:
I cannot write about humanity or any other issue without it turning, against my will, into a discussion of me and all my faults.
ahem...
quote:Originally posted by TheGrimace: btw, I'm still waiting for an explanation of what you were trying to say with the initial post, what kind of response you expected/expect etc...
quote:Originally posted by Cavalier: Sorry to interrupt all of the bickering, but I'm still waiting to hear how the new theology isn't just generic monotheism with a few teaspoons of Liberal philosophy stirred in.
Well you've got at least two people with open ears, though I'm about ready to throw in the towel myself.
Posted by BaoQingTian (Member # 8775) on :
You're accusing KarlEd of dripping with acrid hatred? I've never seen someone be so polite on this board. He keeps a cool and kind manner better than anyone I've seen on an online forum. There have been some topics and posts where some extremely rude and hurtful things have been said and he responds better than I ever could.
I'll always read his posts and topics that he starts with extra interest. You really just do yourself a disservice in this case.
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
"a few teaspoons of Liberal philosophy stirred in." It is that, of course, which is so offensive. How dare man stand unbending when he is so base? Let him return to the four legged earth-hugging walk which was in the beginning, or near enough the beginning.
Savonarola preached from the steps Duomo, in the midst of that beauty there was hatred. And yet the beauty outlived the hatred. That is the lesson of the Renaissance.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:all communications over internet fora take the form of soliloquies
No, they don't Pelegius. This may be the heart of the disconnect. We're trying to have discussions. Apparently, you are performing soliloquies.
Posted by Uprooted (Member # 8353) on :
quote: all communications over internet fora take the form of soliloquies
See, that's just the thing; they don't. Most posters are engaging in dialogue, not monologue.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Pel: This may sound astounding to you but if you simply said, "I should have noted that I edited my post for clarity." Nobody would say anything more concerning the matter.
You remind me of episodes of M*A*S*H when they introduced Major Windchester. He spoke to everyone else with an air of pompousity using words that were intentionally complex so as to distinguish himself from his perceived lesser constituents.
This provoked the other guys to poke fun at what he was saying. They spent more time making puns out of his statements or simply poking fun at him rather than taking anything he said seriously.
He toned down his prideful Bostonian air a bit later in the seasons and he established a better niche for himself in the series. He was much more tolerable to watch, and yet he remained in essence the same character.
Pel its easy for a 17 year old to admit to being naive, or presumptious. You already know that as a 17 year old you CANNOT think you know everything. But its easy to admit a general ignorance, but quite difficult to admit the specifics of that ignorance.
Pel I dont expect you to acknowledge anything I say, or even apologize for anything.
I promise you if you simply forget about the threads made concerning you over the past few days and just start posting you ideas, asking questions, and trying your best to not take criticisms so personally, you will find that nobody will make mention of these events that are transpiring right now.
You are not being singled out for special treatment. You are not a martyr, your ideas are not being dismssed because you are young.
You comments are being met with derision because you are acting in an immature manner. Some people might indulge such behavior and forgive it on the grounds that we were all immature 17 year olds once. But at Hatrack people actually say what would be said to an adult saying your words.
I look back at some of the things I said as a 17 year and cringe because I took myself way to seriously and my insecurity made me develop a very unhealthy sense of pride.
I will continue to speak to you as a friend, its not as if anybody's feelings have been REALLY hurt (though we are fast approaching that threshold).
This post is long, and the longer the post the less likely its substance will continue to hold interest, so for now I leave you to your thoughts. I hope you might look at how others in the forum interact, and realize that because your particular style unique, you are uniquely responded to by people of that community. You decide if thats a good or a bad thing, be brave enough to accept the less comfortable answer to that question.
edited for clarity
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Careful Dag, that post is gonna drip acrid hatred all over the Quick Reply function.
[edit: Nevermind, BlackBlade's post should catch most of it. ]
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
How can one converse in dialogue on a medium such as this. We exchange soliloquies and, when it works, it feels like dialogue. But then, that is life isn't it? John Updike said "We all feel so curiously alone, but it's important to keep making signals through the glass."
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
Dagonee, would that I were Bostonian, that might give me some hope. I am seventeen and from a back water town of a million people and far less influence, and I often, daily, feel as though these obstacles are insurmountable. I have said before that I tend to regularly, or, perhaps, irregularly, oscillate between deep cynicism and profound humanism. I should have said that my humanism gives me no comfort and my cynicism causes no pain. But it is not in me to be removed from the world, although I feel very distant from it, and this leads me often to despair. In my confusion, I grow weary and distrustful of people and I begin to fear that there is no peak to descend, either for me or for my beloved species, whom I have grown to view with a mixture of love and hate.
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
on a side note: has anyone here seen the series of "historical interviews" with Peter Ustinov? we watched a bunch of them in one of my highschool theology classes and they were all fantastic... though the one with Savanarola (sp?) was by far the best. Peter kept adding insult to insult while talking to him and Savanarola looked like he was just gonna slaughter the man =p brings back fond memories...
and regarding the soliloquies issue: Pel have you ever read anyone else's typical posts and compared them to your own and wondered why everyone else (complete with their own styles and foibles) seems to have no trouble with this form of halted dialogue?
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:How can one converse in dialogue on a medium such as this.
By listening to what others say and reacting to it. By desiring to hear others' ideas. To read that rare single sentence which causes a switch to flip in my mind and me to say, "Aha!" Or write that even rarer sentence that causes someone else to flip that switch in their head. Or, when this isn't possible, to define where the areas of disagreement or confusion are, to find an area of common ground.
quote: We exchange soliloquies and, when it works, it feels like dialogue.
No, we don't. Many times, I'm writing to a specific poster (like now, for instance). Other times I'm writing with the express intent of evoking a response - usually to hear others' ideas on the topic or to clarify the ideas they have already expressed, sometimes to make people laugh, other times to get some advice, and still other times to just hear someone say, "That sucks" or "Way to go."
I am always writing here in order to communicate with someone else, though.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: I look back at some of the things I said as a 17 year and cringe because I took myself way to seriously and my insecurity made me develop a very unhealthy sense of pride.
I will continue to speak to you as a friend, its not as if anybody's feelings have been REALLY hurt (though we are fast approaching that threshold).
I too was an insufferably prideful 17 year old, and I too cringe when I recall my attitude, actions and statements. One reason I cut ol' Pel some slack.
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
"everyone else (complete with their own styles and foibles) seems to have no trouble with this form of halted dialogue?"If we say that we are free from trouble, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not within us.
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
"I am always writing here in order to communicate with someone else, though." Soliloquies, too, are a form of communication between an actor and an audience. We are all simultaneously acting and observing. We are Shakepeare's poor players and this is Whitman's powerful play.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
yep... a million people... that's hickville alright.
Pelegius, you *do* realize that no one around here *cares* enough to hate you, right?
I think I can safely say that, at this point, everyone on this board is either trying to help you, provoking you for their own amusement, or ignoring you.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:Soliloquies, too, are a form of communication between an actor and an audience. We are all simultaneously acting and observing.
We are not your audience. And the fact that you think we are is abundantly clear to many of us.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I must confess I am just SLIGHTLY pleased that my comments were good enough to be confused as Dagonee's words. Now that my prideful side is kicking in I will complain that you did not read the author text of the post and jab that you are so self absorbed you read my words and are already formulating a response before you read them in their entirety, its something my younger brothers does in conversation and it drives me nuts!
quote:How can one converse in dialogue on a medium such as this. We exchange soliloquies and, when it works, it feels like dialogue. But then, that is life isn't it? John Updike said "We all feel so curiously alone, but it's important to keep making signals through the glass."
"People who quote other people either cannot think for themselves, or have nothing interesting to say."
Joking aside, you quote just a titch too much imo, and when you are not quoting it seems you are trying to say things that are worthy of being quoted.
TBH I actually care more about what you think about specific things I have said, rather than your general emotions at the moment or how articulately you can present them.
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
"You *do* realize that no one around here *cares* enough to hate you, right? " Apathy is a form of hatred, perhaps a mild one, perhaps the worst.
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
"We are not your audience." Oh yes, you are, and I yours. The bond between an actor and an audience is the only true bond of acquaintance. There is only one other bond, irrational and glorious, heartbreaking and life affirming, and that is love and I do not think it can be bred except face to face.
The question is not whether we are prideful, but whether we take equal pride in others. Few do, but that is the goal.
Posted by BaoQingTian (Member # 8775) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pelegius: Dagonee, would that I were Bostonian, that might give me some hope. I am seventeen and from a back water town of a million people and far less influence, and I often, daily, feel as though these obstacles are insurmountable.
Pelegius, On this forum, you are but a name. Nobody knows your gender, your age, your hometown, your local influence (or lack thereof). You could be making it all up. The only thing we have to get to know you by are your words. What you have to say and how you say it are the yardsticks of this type of dialogue.
You've been found lacking. People here want you to succeed. We've been lining up to give you helpful advice (and ok, a dose of ridicule as well). Some of it you've even started to heed. Your last post that I quoted was much more readable than your first several topics.
Just take a big slice of humble pie--and enjoy it. We're all human here, you included. Everyone has made mistakes, gotten angry, been wrong, and held opinions that they've changed. No one will look down on you for changing your mind, missing a word, or just plain admitting you were wrong.
It's not one of those bully boards where he who shouts the loudest, pwnz another, makes the wittiest comments to make others feel stupid, and never backs down is somehow king of the hill.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
I agree that apathy can be worse than hatred... that's why I'm trying to point out to you that you are inspiring it, and not hatred.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
quote:My seconds will call on you to make arrangements!
Most excellent! I love seconds. In fact, they're the only thing I put in my microwave.
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
Bao, I am afraid that the world does not stop at the bounds of this forum.
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
"'everyone else (complete with their own styles and foibles) seems to have no trouble with this form of halted dialogue?'If we say that we are free from trouble, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not within us."
If my point were not valid, then your oddly lyrical response might be. As the rest of us do not seem to have any difficulty communicating with each other (at least on some level) then I stand by what I said.
BlackBlade, I agree. To be honest I would care more about someone telling me how they caught a frog in their back yard today than I would if they started rambling off quites from Aristotle...
Quotes can be useful backing just as references are useful when you don't want to re-demonstrate a complicated/researched point, but they also serve to de-humanize your writing. Keeping in mind that I am a HUGE fan of quotes in general, they do detract from expressing really what YOU feel and who YOU are...
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:The bond between an actor and an audience is the only true bond of acquaintance.
We clearly live in two different worlds. I'm sorry yours sounds so cold and miserable.
The Hatrack that is part of my world is, most of the time, better than that world. You'd enjoy it if you would step out of yours for a few minutes.
One thing is certain, I won't be stepping into yours.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pelegius: Soliloquies, too, are a form of communication between an actor and an audience.
And thus we see how Pelegius really views himself and Hatrack: he is the Shakespearean actor, and we are the passive recipients of his flowery and archaic language.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings on this thread, Pelegius, even though I think you acted immaturely.
Your writing is just such so target-rich and chock-full of absurd references, it crys out to be parodied. Dude, c'mon, volcanoes, foxes and wolf-packs? Because you've been criticised? What's next, newts and meteorites?
Posted by Cavalier (Member # 3918) on :
Pel, though I recognize the incidents you refer to...I'm not sure what Savanarola has to do with anything. I'm also at a loss as to why my query about Liberal strands within the theology is "offensive". Break it down for me.
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pelegius: Bao, I am afraid that the world does not stop at the bounds of this forum.
bwhaaaat?
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Pelegius: It bothers me that you have deemed my comments to be either unfit to respond to, or that you have found them to be pointedly true and therefore would have to admit defeat by responding to them (that or say something you know to be stupid).
Ill continue to respond to your posts in the future, but do not expect me to expend effort to try to help you understand what you might try in order to enjoy your experience in this forum.
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
The play of life can be most exciting and feel most real, but it is a play. The greatest, funniest, most tragic and most uplifting play ever. And, as Whitman says, we may contribute a verse. What an awesome responsibility in itself.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pelegius: "We are not your audience." Oh yes, you are, and I yours. The bond between an actor and an audience is the only true bond of acquaintance.
Some of us try very hard to be genuine. To us, calling us "actors" is a bit insulting. Calling us your "audience" just sounds condecending and not a bit profound.
quote:There is only one other bond, irrational and glorious, heartbreaking and life affirming, and that is love and I do not think it can be bred except face to face.
Oh how little you know about love. There are a handful of Hatrackers I genuinely love though I've never met them face to face, and those I have met face to face what love I have for them was already there before I met them and was only reinforced in the meeting. But that begs a question of definitions of what you mean by "love" and I'm sure that's a whole 'nother discussion.
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
"I'm also at a loss as to why my query about Liberal strands within the theology is "offensive"." It wasn't to me, to me it was beautiful.
"and who YOU are." I am nobody, who are you? BlackBlade, that will have to do for now, at least while I think. I am afraid even my mind is too clouded now.
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
"To us, calling us "actors" is a bit insulting. Calling us your "audience" just sounds condecending and not a bit profound. " I am sorry you choose to read my words that way, it was not my intent. You too, Jon Boy.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Pelegius, I'm not going to debate whether life is a play with you. I will suggest, however, that even if it is a play, you might enjoy it more if you treated it as if it weren't.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
quote:I am sorry you choose to read my words that way, it was not my intent.
I don't know another way to read them. To make the word "actor" equivalent to "real life human being" is to destroy the word entirely. What many of us are trying to show you is that abstraction and metaphor only serve you well to a point. Beyond that point they prohibit you from genuine intimacy and genuine humanity, not to mention bastardizing the language beyond all utility.
And now you know that your words can honestly be taken in a way that you did not intend. If genuine communication is your goal, then why not rephrase your point and at least attempt to be understood by those still willing to listen?
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pelegius: "I'm also at a loss as to why my query about Liberal strands within the theology is "offensive"." It wasn't to me, to me it was beautiful.
"and who YOU are." I am nobody, who are you? BlackBlade, that will have to do for now, at least while I think. I am afraid even my mind is too clouded now.
I confess I am alittle confused, where in that comment are you responding to anything I have said in these last 2 pages to you? If your mind is too clouded, well thats fine, go take a nap, realize ultimately none of us are going to come over and find you in RL, at least I wont when you come back to the forum try to believe that none of us here are out for your blood, and we would actually like to discuss topics with you, not discuss you as a topic.
By "find you" I mean, find you and do terrible things the likes of which have never been done before.
thought I might need to clarify that.
[ July 18, 2006, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: BlackBlade ]
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
*even* your mind, eh? how huge it must be to have held up this long...
Posted by Cavalier (Member # 3918) on :
quote:It wasn't to me, to me it was beautiful.
Ah, okay. Re-reading the previous response I understand your point...though it would have been easier (and less ambiguous) to state you agree with my assertion and then dive into a historical example/justification/kindred spirit.
I find it odd that someone who is a self-described postmodernist (a self-designation that is odd in and of itself - most postmodernists are labeled as such by others) would have such a smattering of Liberal currents running through their theology. Many aspects of Liberalism are almost inextricably bound up with Modernism. At the very least I would imagine Post-Structuralists would take issue with your opening post.
BlackBlade: I think Pel missed a line break, it seems that there are three different responses to three different people in there.
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
I have no idea what I meant when i said "even," I think it was a typo.
"To make the word "actor" equivalent to "real life human being" is to destroy the word entirely.
"Actors are peope" "Oh yeah, have you ever eaten with one?" Mel Brooks.
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
quote: “Out, out, brief candle! Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player That struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more. It is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.” I would dispute MacBeth’s idea that life signifies nothing, but it is both unquestionably brief and often reminiscent of a bad actor performing, although, in fairness, he is forced to improvise, having never been given a script. Marcus Aurelius offers an alternative view of life, one which I believe to be more accurate in his Te eis heauton:
quote:Empty pomp; stage plays; flocks of sheep and herds of cows; mock battles; a bone flung to lap-dogs; a breadcrumb tossed into a fishpond; the ceaseless toil of ants bearing their burdens; the flight of frightened mice; puppets dancing on their strings — such is life. Your job is to take pleasure amidst it all with a mild manner and without condescension. Bear in mind that the measure of a man is the worth of the things he cares about.
From a previous thread of mine about theology.
I became a postmoderist out of a desire to revisit the past, not to reject it as th modernists did, and yet modernism is part of that past. This a simple view of but one aspect of my philosophy, and I would be weary of giving it too much weight.
Posted by Uprooted (Member # 8353) on :
Pelegius--You made a joke! You admitted a typo! Cool.
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
I will also admit that the post in which I did both of those is filled with typos. I am sorry if I come across as being to stiff, I do believe that I have a sense of humor (my favority Hatrack tradition is the dobie, and I seem to recall having made one or two myself.)
Posted by Foust (Member # 3043) on :
Ok, Pel, you're clearly a Hatrack regular getting a kick out of some anonymous trolling.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang:
quote:My seconds will call on you to make arrangements!
Most excellent! I love seconds. In fact, they're the only thing I put in my microwave.
The first serving you eat cold?
Posted by narrativium (Member # 3230) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jim-Me: I wonder if he's related to Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings?
Don't you mean Paul Neil Milne Johnstone?
quote:Originally posted by Pelegius: John Updike said "We all feel so curiously alone, but it's important to keep making signals through the glass."
And Krusty the Clown said, "Shut up, Updike!"
Posted by ssasse (Member # 9516) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka:
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang:
quote:My seconds will call on you to make arrangements!
Most excellent! I love seconds. In fact, they're the only thing I put in my microwave.
The first serving you eat cold?
No, that's The Sweetest Dish of All.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Revenge is the The Sweetest Dish of All?
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: Pelegius, I'm not going to debate whether life is a play with you. I will suggest, however, that even if it is a play, you might enjoy it more if you treated it as if it weren't.
:::Applauds::: "Why some men are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrown upon them... and thus the whirligig of time brings in his revenges."
I once again recomment "Poetics" by Aristotle as ample proof that most people know nothing about communicating (I know I don't).
Edit: despite my usage above, just because Shakespeare wrote it doesn't make it proof of anything. The way you engage WITH the soliloquoy is the contact point. A soliloquoy in an empty hall is fine, but then you're not a player in the "game of life" if you'd like. Your stage, Pel, is emptying. Soon it will be minus one more.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Pelegious, please tell me you're 15. I can at least comprehend this if you're fresh-faced and full of angst, the world (and your damned 3rd period Lit teacher) out to get you.
Otherwise, I'm just baffled. You certainly seem to take this entirely too seriously. Maybe get a little fresh air, take up a hobby? It's just the Internet.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
He has reported his age as 17.
I'm currently leaning toward the theory of this being a s/n for some longer-term member who is having us on.
It's all in what Pel has chosen NOT to respond to.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
<deleted because it could incite panic among the lily-livered torch-and-pitchfork posse>
[ July 19, 2006, 07:42 AM: Message edited by: Morbo ]
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
But I'm unconvinced, Bob. He deserves the benefit of the doubt.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bob_Scopatz:
I'm currently leaning toward the theory of this being a s/n for some longer-term member who is having us on.
It's all in what Pel has chosen NOT to respond to.
This would be too ingenious. I mean, the execution of this kind of plot would require quite a bit of concentration. It hard to be ignorant.
But who could it be? Speculations abound!!! It definetly isn't Blayne, unless Blayne was some kind of pretense to Pelegius, because you just don't get one from the other.
Dag could pull this off, but why would he? I could certainly be the culprit, and I have the motive (boredom), but not the time for it.
It could be YOU Bob. Or it could be Tom Davidson. That would be delicious... And Tom has not factored heavily in these threads (not that I recall).
I think it may be either Puppy, or OSC. I mean, maybe this is just a grand experiment in preparation for the new Ender books? Pelegius is the latter day, angry teenage son of Demosthenes? It might be some kind of character study.
Here would be the ultimate irony. Its Papa Janitor, sabotaging his own board out of boredome and a secret desire for self-destruction.
In fact, it could be StarLisa, and that whole discussion could be a subtle faint to make it appear that they are seperate people.
Watch your neighbors. Any one of us might be Pelegius!!!
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Put down your torches, let's not go on a witch hunt with slim evidence. Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Morbo's a witch! Burn him!
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
We must approach this scientifically. We all know witches float in water. What else floats in water?
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Something completely different?
Posted by Cavalier (Member # 3918) on :
Ducks Witches = Ducks
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Wood floats in water. Wood's used to make fire. Burn the witch!
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
You guys are killing it.
Dead bodies float in water, too.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Only after most people will already have lost interest. They sink at first and stay down a day or two usually.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
The floaters are more interesting, though. Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Usually? Sounds like Karl has disposed of a body or two in his day. . .
Posted by suminonA (Member # 8757) on :
The floating "problem" might be easily overcome by judicious use of heavy chains and concrete. Or maybe I've just watched too many "mafia" movies. Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Or chopping the body into bits and dumping in shark infested waters.
Hmm. Too much CSI?
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
You people. Just BURN HIM!
He's a witch! We don't NEED to cover anything up, or hide his body, or act all furtive!
WITCH == BURNINATION
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
But is burnination actually the same thing as burning? Perhaps we need to burn and then burninate to increase effectiveness.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morbo: Usually? Sounds like Karl has disposed of a body or two in his day. . .
Now where's that "innocent whistling" smilie?
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
It disappeared. Along with the bodies.
Posted by JennaDean (Member # 8816) on :
Oh, this was scary ... I just popped in for the first time and thought you were burning Pelegius.
Thank goodness it's just Morbo ... wait ... I mean ... Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by KarlEd:
quote:Originally posted by Morbo: Usually? Sounds like Karl has disposed of a body or two in his day. . .
Now where's that "innocent whistling" smilie?
Right here. Too bad Hatrack doesn't have its own.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
quote:Originally posted by JennaDean: Oh, this was scary ... I just popped in for the first time and thought you were burning Pelegius.
Thank goodness it's just Morbo ... wait ... I mean ...
What th' ? Let's drag this thread back on-topic: dogpiling Pelegius (sorry, kid, it was you or me.) Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Taunt]](graemlins/taunt.gif)
![[Hail]](graemlins/hail.gif)
Lord Pel
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![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[No No]](graemlins/nono.gif)
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