Sort of. It's to his brother Raul, surprise, surprise. Still, in a world of terrorism, war, and general global catastrophe, it's kind of nice to hope that this regime could be in it's final (metaphorical) days.
quote:MIAMI, Aug. 1 — Cuban exiles reacted with exuberance at the news that Fidel Castro had temporarily ceded power to his brother late Monday night, taking to the streets, dancing and honking their car horns in celebration that decades of dictatorship in Cuba was coming to an end.
But today, the initial joy turned mostly to uncertainty as Cubans paused and considered the unanswered questions: why did Mr. Castro himself not appear to announce his illness? Was he alive or dead? What would the future bring for families with loved ones in Cuban prisons, or for those with executed relatives in the grave?
Thoughts?
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
Raul. Raul Castro. I have to test out that name; it seemed like Fidel would be in power forever. Loyal, indeed.
Time finally does what an exploding cigar, a mob contract, a poisoned pen, and the Bay of Pigs could not.
--j_k
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
I'm under the opinion that he's already dead. Let's face it: the cardinal rule about being a dictator in a Latin American country is that you never give up anything unless you're dragged out in to the street and shot.
I live in Miami; it's a zoo here today. The major came on TV and literally told people that today was a "great day", that people can "celebrate at will, but please no property damage," etc...
And, in that sense, and I know how this might sound, but I hope he's dead. If he suddenly pops up again, the Cubans here are going to get even more depressed than they usually are.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I really do not know how the Cubans feel about all this though. Part of me thinks they are not really celebrating, and there is the possibility that they all think he did a good job.
If he died he would have to be embalmed in typical communist dicator fashion.
Posted by TheHumanTarget (Member # 7129) on :
Hmmm...I guess Christians In Action finally got to him...
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
quote:posted by Nighthawk: I live in Miami; it's a zoo here today. The major came on TV and literally told people that today was a "great day", that people can "celebrate at will, but please no property damage," etc..
I was watching the news this morning; apparantly the celebrations began last night, and while there was dancing blocking some of the streets (or so MSNBC reported) there had been no property damage and no arrests. I was surprised, but pleased.
quote:posted by BlackBlade: If he died he would have to be embalmed in typical communist dicator fashion.
They should stuff him, so that future generations can make mockery* of his beard.
*EDIT - or appreciate, as the mood strikes them. Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
Hey! Whatever else you want to say about the man is fine, but he has/had a magnificent beard.
Also, any friend of Che's is a friend of mine.
(^not particularly serious)
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Actually, I am a bit worried about the party atmosphere over Castro's illness and possible death. Sure he was a dictatorial scum, but should we be celebrating? Isn't this the type of poor-taste celebration we ridiculed the Palestineans for?
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
I don't see the cause for celebration. If he's dead, he appears to have had a good long run at it, and died pleasantly of old age, while still in power. And the dictatorial structure he created remains. What's to be happy about?
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
It's in extremely poor taste, in my opinion. But Cubans aren't know for their good taste.
And Cubans wouldn't trash their own neighborhood. Fire guns in to the air, drink heavily, roast a pork... but no open flames in the street.
Somehow, Cubans think that, with his death, democracy will come to the island like the flip of a light switch. Some say his brother is no better; Fidel has been such a prominent figure in his country that nobody knows anything about anyone else in his regime. They assume it was all him, and that may not necessarily be the case.
Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
quote:Somehow, Cubans think that, with his death, democracy will come to the island like the flip of a light switch.
All of them? Just the ones you've spoken to regarding this? Was there a survey? Are you linked with the Cubano hive mind?
I don't think you could assign a blanket viewpoint to any nationality. I also think that if a dictator imprisoned/killed my relatives and exiled me I might be tempted to celebrate when he was no longer in power, dead or not, and quite frankly would be pissed off at anyone who thought I ought not to.
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
Or, you know, just made things so bad that my friends tried to make it to Florida on a raft and were eaten by sharks...
Yeah, I'd celebrate too.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
quote:But Cubans aren't know for their good taste.
Well, I can testify that the Cuban Sandwich at the cafe in the Andy Warhol museum in Pittsburg is da bomb!
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Raul Castro has been a well-known name in Cuban politics for many years. But he lacks the charisma of Fidel. I predict that when Fidel Castro dies, the government will fall within six months, and we will see tens of thousands of Cuban exiles returning and insisting on having a major part in setting up the new government, which will be non-commmunist.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
quote:Originally posted by vonk: All of them? Just the ones you've spoken to regarding this? Was there a survey? Are you linked with the Cubano hive mind?
I don't think you could assign a blanket viewpoint to any nationality. I also think that if a dictator imprisoned/killed my relatives and exiled me I might be tempted to celebrate when he was no longer in power, dead or not, and quite frankly would be pissed off at anyone who thought I ought not to.
First off, I'm half Cuban with family on the island, and have lived in Miami for almost thirty years. Let me just throw that out there.
Secondly, the people aren't celebrating the hope for democracy on the island. They're celebrating that he's flat out dead (even though it's technically not official). The political future of the island doesn't factor in to the emotions down here; he's dead, and that's it.
My comment was directed not at the celebrating populace, but at the administration. Jeb Bush comes on TV and states that this is a "good day for democracy." The administration made it sound like they were going to have free, public elections tomorrow, everybody's going to be "happy happy, joy joy" about the whole situation, and Cuba will become the 51st state by Friday.
It's not that simple. He's been in power for almost fifty years, but although it appears as such he didn't do it alone. His brother was right alongside him from day one, and follows the same ideals and mindset he did. You just didn't know that or see that because Fidel was such a prominent force in the public eye.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: Raul Castro has been a well-known name in Cuban politics for many years. But he lacks the charisma of Fidel. I predict that when Fidel Castro dies, the government will fall within six months, and we will see tens of thousands of Cuban exiles returning and insisting on having a major part in setting up the new government, which will be non-commmunist.
Let's be honest: why would they return?
Cubans that have managed to get through the system and stay here are living a great life. I certainly doubt that "tens of thousands" would simply give all that up and go there in to the arms of chaos.
Figureheads and community leaders will go to try to seize power or some level of control, but your average 50 year old grandmother who's milking the government through six different aid programs ain't going nowhere.
Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
Nighthawk - I completely agree with you that any change in the political climate will not be immediate, and any attempt to tell people that it will be is misleading at best. I also agree that having a dictator's brother take power after he is no longer able to govern does not in any way indicate that things will get better, in fact quite possibly the opposite.
From your post I was not able to tell that you were referring to the American govt at any time, but if you were, I completely misinterpreted it.
Also, I'm sorry if you, your family or your friends have suffered due to Castro's being in power. However, I do not believe that a person having a particular ethnic or national identity gives them the right or ability to attribute specific thoughts and attitudes to all other persons of said ethnic or national identity. While many people are no doubt celebrating for just the reasons you describe, is it not possible that others are celebrating from an albeit misguided hope for a swift change in Cuban politics, or from a hope that the burdens of family and friends still on the island will be drastically lessened? I'm not saying that any of this will happen, merely that I would be loath to say, or would disagree with anyone that said, that all Cubans are celebrating for one reason and one reason only, and that any thought or attitude represents the entirety of that populace.
Posted by Mig (Member # 9284) on :
I'm Cuban born and Miami raised, with tons of family and friends in Miami. The death of the Dictator Castro is/will be great cause for celebration. Very few people expect that his death will lead to the immediate restoration of democracy in Cuba. Yes, there is great hop that this transition will be swift, but that's not why we celebrate, we celebrate because an evil man is on his death bed. Jeb Bush is right, any time a dictator dies, its a great day for democracy. You can't have democracy in Cuba while Castro lives. His death is a huge first step in that direction. Celebrating his death doesn't mean that we're ignoring the hard work ahead, or how long it'll take, it just means that sometimes you just have to stop and smell the roses, enjoy the moment before moving on.
Equating Cubans celebrating news of Castro's death to Palistinian clebrations after terrorists attacks is ill-informed and in bad taste. We celebrate the (imminent?) death of one evil man who is personally responsible for the imprisonment, execution, and repression of Cubans (including people in our own families) for over fifty years. There is no moral equivaliency here with celebrating the death of innocents at the hands of nameless terrosists.
Posted by Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy (Member # 9384) on :
quote:However, I do not believe that a person having a particular ethnic or national identity gives them the right or ability to attribute specific thoughts and attitudes to all other persons of said ethnic or national identity.
Spoken like someone who hasn't spent a lot of time in Miami.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
The nice thing about living in Miami is that it's so close to the United States.
Posted by Mig (Member # 9284) on :
quote:Originally posted by Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy:
quote:However, I do not believe that a person having a particular ethnic or national identity gives them the right or ability to attribute specific thoughts and attitudes to all other persons of said ethnic or national identity.
Spoken like someone who hasn't spent a lot of time in Miami.
Ditto to that. There is little disagreement within the Cuban community in Miami or anywhere there's a large Cuban community (New Jersy or New York) as to the death of Castro being a cause for celebration. Naturally, in the end some will be more optimistic than others as to how quickly the regime will fall after his death. One shouldn't read to much into the celebrations and the celebrators' expectations of an immidiate fall of communism.
My own guess is that it may take a while, more years in fact. Raul runs the state apparatus that has served so well in repressing decent for years. I don't see him loosening the states grip. The Castros learned from the mistakes of Gorbechev, Raul won't easing his grip anytime soon. When the USSR fell all my friends and family expected Cuba to fall right behind. I said no then for the same reason. I was right 15 years ago, but I hope I'm wrong today.
Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
quote:Originally posted by Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy:
quote:However, I do not believe that a person having a particular ethnic or national identity gives them the right or ability to attribute specific thoughts and attitudes to all other persons of said ethnic or national identity.
Spoken like someone who hasn't spent a lot of time in Miami.
While my statement was prompted by comments regarding Cubans, I wasn't specifically referring to any particular ethnicity/nationality. I'm sorry I wasn't more clear. I stand by my statement in regards to all ethnicities/nationalities regardless of location.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
Interesting...here in Brazil Fidel is seen by many as a kind of hero (not by me, though). Many people are sad for him. I guess most History majors and Professors may be crying right now :-)
Whenever he came here it was nuts! Everyone wanted to take a picture with him, people applauding his speeches, and so on. Oh, and Che is almost a saint here.
As I already said... 20 yeas of military dictatorship WILL turn a country towards the left afterwards. I see that even 22 years after our last military dictator.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I am willing to celebrate the iminent demise of a man who very nearly caused a nuclear holocaust
Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
If I just could find that Gandalf quote about "If you can't bring good people from the dead, don't wish for the death of evil ones."...
Posted by dantesparadigm (Member # 8756) on :
“Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.”
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I don't wish that he were dead, I simply find a type of happiness that he is no longer running in the human race with me.
Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
Thanks, dante :-)
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
Stupid question from someone who doesn't know any better:
How do all these people know that Fidel's brother isn't as big a pain as he is? Or that he likes democracy/making peoplenot want to leave Cuba/his subjects?
Posted by Lalo (Member # 3772) on :
Uh. Crap. This is not something I'd want to happen with a president as incompetent as Bush.
Jose definitely has a closer connection with this than I do, but as I understand it, Raul's possibly even more brutal than his brother. He's not as old-school Communist as Castro, I believe, but every bit as violently totalitarian.
I wonder if the US will sponsor a revolution if Castro dies?
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