Hatrack River Forum: Study shows that self-discipline gives good marks.

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Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :

Well, duh! (Sorry, my only link is in Norwegian.) But it's not as stupid as it sounds; discipline apparently has twice the weight of intelligence in determining grades. Powerful stuff! It makes me wonder what I could have accomplished if I had any.

Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :

quote:
But it's not as stupid as it sounds; discipline apparently has twice the weight of intelligence in determining grades.

Hmm...this is one of the "duh" studies to me. Of course the person with average intelligence who tries is going to accomplish more than the person with above-average intelligence who slacks.

Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :

Yes, but now that 'accomplish more' has been quantified. It's always useful to have a number. [Smile]

Posted by TrapperKeeper (Member # 7680) on :

Who conducted the study? The center for figuring out really obvious stuff? [Razz]

Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :

In their next study, they revealed that raisins add a "raisiny" taste to foods.

Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :

This just in: water is wet, fire is hot, and there is some sort of fighting in the Middle East.

(/obvious)

Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :

I just bet this had government funding.

Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :

What in the world is meant be 'twice the weight' as intelligence? What kind of units are used? Does this mean that if you are twice as disciplined (and I have no idea how you would measure twice as disciplined) but only half as intelligent you will the same grades. It can't possibly mean I.Q cut in half because because its unfathamoble that someone with an IQ of 75 could get better grades than some one with an IQ of 150 even if the IQ 150 person was a total slacker.

Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :

People, you are forgetting the obvious. The point isn't to prove what everybody already knew. The point is to be able to show it to the academic ivory-tower people who have hijacked the educational system, in their own terms, so they will finally admit the importance of discipline.

Posted by TrapperKeeper (Member # 7680) on :

quote:
People, you are forgetting the obvious. The point isn't to prove what everybody already knew. The point is to be able to show it to the academic ivory-tower people who have hijacked the educational system, in their own terms, so they will finally admit the importance of discipline.

Very true. But it is so much more fun to make fun of it than to intelligently comment on it!
[Party]

btw, I think I fall into the less disciplined category! [Monkeys]

Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :

quote:
The point is to be able to show it to the academic ivory-tower people who have hijacked the educational system, in their own terms, so they will finally admit the importance of discipline.

Who is there in the educational system who doesn't already believe that discipline is important? Perhaps Nowegian universities are filled with professors who this hard work makes no difference, but I've never met one in the US system who held that opinion.

Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :

Rabbit, *teachers* in the US know all too well that student self-discipline is important for success. However, *policymakers* in the US somehow feel that poor performance is either the school's fault or the teacher's fault - removing the student (and the student's extracurricular environment) from the equation almost entirely.

There is a very large disconnect between what is actually going on in our country's classrooms and what policymakers *perceive* is going on.

Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Rabbit:
What in the world is meant be 'twice the weight' as intelligence? What kind of units are used? Does this mean that if you are twice as disciplined (and I have no idea how you would measure twice as disciplined) but only half as intelligent you will the same grades. It can't possibly mean I.Q cut in half because because its unfathamoble that someone with an IQ of 75 could get better grades than some one with an IQ of 150 even if the IQ 150 person was a total slacker.

Presumably, it means that if you have two people who are in the same percentile of intelligence, however measured, and the same percentile of self-discipline, however measured, then moving up x percentiles in intelligence is equivalent to moving up x/2 percentiles in self-discipline, when you look at the effect on grades.

Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :

quote:
What in the world is meant be 'twice the weight' as intelligence? What kind of units are used?

I was hoping a unit of intelligence weighed one gram and a unit of discipline weighed 2 grams. I could then use that study to prove to my wife why I don't need to diet.

"Do you know how many units of intelligence and discipline it takes to be 40 pounds overweight?!!"

Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :

That would be twice the mass, lem. For weight, a unit of intelligence would have to weigh an ounce, and a unit of discipline would have to weigh 2 ounces. [Taunt]

Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :

WOW....you must be like 80 pounds overweight!

Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :

Not going to ask obvious questions like how do you quantify qualities like self-discipline or intelligence for a study...

The subject reminds me of this, speaking of which:

http://archive.gamespy.com/comics/dorktower/archive.asp?nextform=viewcomic&id=1158

Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :

quote:
Originally posted by FlyingCow:
That would be twice the mass, lem. For weight, a unit of intelligence would have to weigh an ounce, and a unit of discipline would have to weigh 2 ounces.

And we went from metric units to Imperial ones why? Newtons aren't good enough for you?

Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :

Must... not... post... must... not... post...

Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :

That would certainly leave marks.

Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :

I, personally, think discipline and intelligence equal themselves out eventually in life... You can drop out of college and land a great job just the same as you can graduate with a PhD and end up with a crap one. It's all how you learn to apply yourself in the end that lands you where you'll land... You could drop out of school at 14 and end up being an incredilbe artist who creates a fantastic life for themselves or be a serial-student who ends up with nothing but debt.

Intelligence is deeper than schooling. Discipline is more than listening to the norm...

But what do I know...

Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :

KoM...historically, religions have provided a source and motivation for self-discipline.

I'm just sayin'...

You'd better be careful of where all this may lead!
[Eek!]

Posted by Eduardo St. Elmo (Member # 9566) on :

mr. Scopatz: if you need any external source to commit yourself to a task (p.e. trying to be a good person) how is it still self-discipline?

Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :

"The one thing that all expertise theorists agree on is that it takes enormous effort to build these [expert] structures in the mind. Simon coined a psychological law...which states that it takes approximately a decade of heavy labor to master any field."

Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :

E St E: Is htere an example you can provide, in the entire history of humanity, of a completely self-made person, free of all influences upon the mature person?

Also, what manner of discipline (self- or otherwise) exists without some form of motivation? Even if you assert that that motivation comes from within, the question will still remain as to how the motivations were formed (see above).