This is topic The REAL Battlestar Galactica Season 3 Discussion Thread in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.


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Posted by Kasie H (Member # 2120) on :
 
Aka, please answer my questions about the Season Two finale. Without devloving into an interesting discussion about Islamofascist terrorists and freedom fighters.

*****SEASON TWO SPOILERS*****

1) What on earth made Apollo so mad at Starbuck? Was it her comments to him in that last scene with both of him, where she says something to him about D? Or am I missing something?

2) What the heck is going on, exactly, with Gaius and No. 6 (the blonde....is she 6?) being in each others' heads? Or has this question still not been answered except in speculation? Is Gaius also a cylon, or what?

3) Why, exactly, did the cylons come for them again? Maybe I'm asking for a hypothesis on this more than anything...

Anyway, I'm mostly confused by Starbuck and Apollo...since episode 1 I've been wanting them to get together and live happily ever after. And I have a crazy crush on Lee Adama.

Help!
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
1. We don't know. Yet.

2. We don't know the first part. And Gaius is not a Cylon.

3. We don't know that either.

Hope that helps. [Smile]
 
Posted by Kasie H (Member # 2120) on :
 
...how do we know Gaius isn't a cylon?
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
If Gaius was a cylon I would stop watching the show. We, as the viewers, have been told repeatedly that Gaius is a human. So while I guess he technically could be, it would be evident of such poor writing that I don't think they'd ever do it.

As for Lee and Kira, Kira rejected Lee pretty flat out in the one episode where they started to go somewhere. I think he was pretty bitter about it and that he was essentially settling for Dee. There's probably more to it than that, but that was my take.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
We've been told Gaius is human.

And there's definitely more to the Lee/Kara story than just a single rejection. A LOT more. We just don't know it yet.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
1) It stems from the unrequited love between the two of them. Remember in "Scar" when they finally show each other that they have feelings for each other and are about to have sex. But Starbuck is reeling from Cat taking over her spot as #1 pilot and from her feelings for Anders too. Apollo has always wanted Starbuck and wants their encounter to mean something... while Starbuck's motives are not only giving into Apollo at last but with all these self loathing and self doubt stuff mixed in. She reacts horribly to Apollo's request to not be so rough. Whatever happened in the year since then stems from their attraction to each other. Sometimes when you cannot have what you desire you come to hate it.

2) There is no explanation yet. Either both are emanations from some other being, or there are chips in both Gaius and #6, or the shared experience during the Apocalypse maybe burned each other's image into each other's minds. But considering that both images know things that neither should know shows that something bigger is going on (ei my theory that the Cylon God has something to do with it).

3) The Cylons are A.I.'s created by Mankind to make life easier on the Twelve Colonies of Kobol. They decide one day to kill their masters and a bloody ten year begins. Finally an armistice is agreed on and the Cylons leave the Twelve Colonies for a world of their own. 40 years later they break the peace and attack the Colonies. They have evolved and claim to be on a mission from their God.

My theory is that the Cylon God is actually the 13th fallen/rebel Lord of Kobol. The Lords of Kobol lived in harmony with Humanity on Kobol till one of their number wanted to be worshiped above all the other 12 Gods... thus the war on Kobol began and Humanity fled to the stars.

The Cylon God met up with the Cylons and they came to worship him. And of course as Satan, he wanted to destroy the true children of the Gods and sent the Cylons back to the Twelve Colonies to wipe us out. #6 in Gaius and Gaius in #6 are both eminations of the Cylon God.

The Lords of Kobol are the Beings of Light from the original series. That's my thinking. [Smile]

[ September 27, 2006, 06:06 AM: Message edited by: Telperion the Silver ]
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Carrie, glad to see that you are still there. Sorry to say that there will be very few posts from me this season. Unfortunately I don't have a job that gives me hours to surf the boards and come up with wild and unsubstantiated rumors. Hope that you all are as excited about Season 3 as I am.

Ah shucks. I just gotta add my two bits. There are 12 cylon models. There are 12 colonies and the government is ruled by a president and the quorum of 12. I would dare say that the cylon god is a living and breathing individual and serves as the "president" of the cylon quorum. That quorum is made up of the original 12 cylon models. The first copy of each model to be created. Don't know how significant that would be, but it was fun to think about.

Here's another one. The cylons already found earth. Kobol is not the birthplace of mankind, earth is. However, Kobol is the birthplace of this model of human. "All of this has happened before and all it will happen again." The Lords of Kobol were the humans who came from Earth. The humans of the 12 colonies were their creations. They rebelled as well and left Kobol for the worlds of the 12 colonies. But not before nuking the crap out of Kobol to kill off their creators.

Or if you like, reverse it. The Lords of Kobol were the Cylons from Earth that benevolently ruled the humans of Kobol, until, corrupted by power, began to demand human sacrifice. The humans rebelled, fought back, defeated the earth cylons (at great cost) and left for the worlds of the 12 colonies. Thus beginning the cycle of time anew. Now here's a further thought, the god of the cylons is the last remaining lord of Kobol and an original earth cylon. Sharon said in Season 1 in "Home" that the cylons knew more about the human religion than the humans did.

So what about earth? Earth will probably be a desolate and empty planet, left barren and scarred from the nuclear wars between human and cylon. A wreak of a planet that was abused and abandoned by a group of god like cylons with their human slaves for a new homeworld in the stars.

Or it will be a place of high technology and peace where the human/cylon hybid is the species of the planet, tracing their genetic origins back to the merging of the organic and the mechanical. If the human and the cylon have the ability to produce offspring, why wouldn't they? The resulting children would be smarter, faster, stronger, and possiblity immortal. On earth, humanity has achieved a god like status through the merging of the organic and the mechanical.

Okay, it's late and I'm starting to wander. Good night all.
 
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
Gaius can't be a cylon. Six was sent to Gaius because he had access to the highest levels of security in the defense systems. If Gaius was a cylon, there would have been no reason to send Six and Gaius could have disabled the defense systems of the colonies himself.

For me what's most fascinating about Gaius is that they didn't just make him the typical cardboard traitor. He's a wonderful illustration of the evil that can come of always chosing the easy way. He's not lazy or stupid or malevalent. He's so chilling because he consistently chooses the easy way out, and we all do that sometimes. It's very easy to see ourselves in Gaius when we're really honest. He's become one of my most favorite characters on TV.
 
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
 
Gaius is definately an intriguing character, and undoubtedly one could write a couple chapters just on him in " The Philosophy of Battle Star Galactica". But the most compelling character, the one I enjoy more than any other character is Bill Adama. He's fallible, he makes mistakes, but those under his command love him, he knows how to command, he's a leader who shows he can grow, unlike most 2 dimensional leaders on TV. He is my favorite character from any TV show.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
quote:
He's a wonderful illustration of the evil that can come of always chosing the easy way. He's not lazy or stupid or malevalent. He's so chilling because he consistently chooses the easy way out, and we all do that sometimes. It's very easy to see ourselves in Gaius when we're really honest.
I just have to say, I absolutely love your analysis. [Smile]
 
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
 
I would enjoy the show even more if Gaius died and was never heard from from again.
 
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
 
I see no logical way Gaius can remain part of the human colony after Season 3 is over (I'm suspecting by the time Season 3 is over, the search for Earth continues, and the whole 'New Caprica' situation gets resolved). Now, I suspect they'll throw him in exile instead of killing him, but thats just a suspision.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
OMG!

***HUGE SPOILERS***
First act of 3 Season premier!
 
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
I haven't actually seen the show, but Battlestar Gallatica was referenced on both Gilmore Girls and Veronica Mars last night.
 
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
 
Funny thing. The dialogue is mediocre. The look, acting, and direction of the show are so so, but the plot structure is fantastic.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
quote:
I see no logical way Gaius can remain part of the human colony after Season 3 is over
Why?
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Telperion the Silver:
OMG!

***HUGE SPOILERS***
First act of 3 Season premier!

WOW!!! I really hate you for showing me that link. Now I am so jazzed for Saturday (No scifi, iTunes posts on Saturday) that I can't even see straight.
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
Starbuck scares me now.
 
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Amanecer:
quote:
I see no logical way Gaius can remain part of the human colony after Season 3 is over
Why?
After having Caprica 6 and Boomer in that close of a vicinity, both of them having full knowledge of what he did, it's impossible that another human won't stumble upon the truth of what he did. Factor in that Rosalyn and Adama are both already suspicious of him, and it's pretty much a gaurentee that he'll be outed.

As soon as he's outed, he'll flee like a coward rather than face the consequences of his actions, causing a horrendous side story through season 4 (one that I'm sure to hate), until he's redeemed in the season five premeire by providing some super secret info on the cylons(the series finale will end with season 5, shortly thereafter a spinoff series title Galactica 2010 will air and will be cancelled within 3 episodes.

In otherwords, I think it's impossible that after interacting with 6, that anyone will think anything less than Traitor about him.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
quote:
After having Caprica 6 and Boomer in that close of a vicinity, both of them having full knowledge of what he did, it's impossible that another human won't stumble upon the truth of what he did.
I do not agree that it's impossible. The last we saw, Gaius had rejected Six. I don't know that their relationship would be public nor am I certain that that Six was Gaius' Six. It might be likely that Gaius will be branded a traitor, but I think it's far from a given. Guess we'll have to watch and see. [Big Grin]

*bounces up and down in anticipation*
 
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
T...I love Adama too, and definitely don't love Gaius; I just think he's a wonderfully well done character. He's the sort I like to think I'd invite to church, given the chance. [Wink]

I don't think it's impossible for him to remain in the colony. I think part of what makes him interesting is that he knows how bad some of his choices have been, loathes himself, but never quite takes so much of it to heart as to actually do anything about it. This takes so much skill at denial that I think he could manage to live quite comfortably (relatively speaking) among people who totally loathe him.

That said, I more see him escaping into cylon society, loathed there as well for being human, but tolerated for his many contributions to the cylon infiltration. Ultimately, my hope is that he will find some opportunity for redemption and take it, making him a genuinely changed man. I think that's a far more interesting story than his ultimate total destruction.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
quote:
The last we saw, Gaius had rejected Six. I don't know that their relationship would be public nor am I certain that that Six was Gaius' Six. It might be likely that Gaius will be branded a traitor, but I think it's far from a given. Guess we'll have to watch and see.
Wait, really? The last Six I saw was making eyes at Gaius and he was freaked out by her presence, but I don't see that as a rejection, per se.

How about those webisodes? Did anyone else see today's? Wow, Jammer!
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
With the last webisode, things in the first act of episode 301 make a little more sense (I mean you could piece it together easily with the previous webisode stuff, but this last one confirms it). I'm really pumped to see the rest of 301 tomorrow night. I'm anticipating it as much as I was anticipating Lost's premiere last night. This is a good week to be watching television.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
quote:
WOW!!! I really hate you for showing me that link. Now I am so jazzed for Saturday (No scifi, iTunes posts on Saturday) that I can't even see straight.
[Big Grin]
Me too!
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
quote:
Wait, really? The last Six I saw was making eyes at Gaius and he was freaked out by her presence, but I don't see that as a rejection, per se.
Well, I haven't watched the episodes since they were on several months ago so I could have it wrong. I thought that Gaius had rejected mental Six for the live version he had sex with who then detonated the nuke. I also seem to remember that he hadn't heard from mental Six after that. But memories are faulty things. [Razz] Does this sound right to others?
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Amanecer & ReddwarfVII, Six stayed away from Gaius for only several weeks but when she came back she was not nearly so nice. Her appearances were also not as frequent as before.

In an podcast the creator said that they wanted to keep Six away as a result of Gaius's choice for the live model, but they realized that the Six/Gaius dynamic was too important for them to cut out for half a season.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Yeah, that's pretty much right. After his relations with Pegasus Six, he doesn't see Mental Six until the cylons arrive on New Caprica. At least I would say that is a fairly reasonable assumption based on the current information.

I agree with Jeniwren, I think that the redemption of Gaius Baltar would be a far more engaging story than his total destruction. This show really does not need a human face of evil like the original series did. The human cylons are taking on that role quite nicely. Gaius' redemption would really fit more into the overall theme of the show which is the near destruction and redemption of the human race. Gaius could be the poster child for that struggle.

One thing I am very interested to see is the dynamic that will occur between Caprica Six and Mental Six. They are same person, or are supposed to be. Same with Mental Gaius and real Gaius. That bit has had me wondering all summer.

Also, did anyone else catch the Chief's reference to "Boomer" in the webisodes? Looks like that Sharon has made herself known on New Caprica. I am very interested to see how that senario is playing out as well.

.............I hate waiting............ [Mad] [Wall Bash]
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
quote:
One thing I am very interested to see is the dynamic that will occur between Caprica Six and Mental Six. They are same person, or are supposed to be. Same with Mental Gaius and real Gaius. That bit has had me wondering all summer.

If you remember at the end of episode "Home pt. II" we find out that Six is neither a chip in his brain nor a hallucination. A brain scan shows nothing in Gaius's brain...but Six knows things Gaius could never know. She has made predictions several times of events that will take place in the future. The biggest one is when she told Gaius that the Cylon baby (their child carried by Boomer) would be born on Galactica.

[ October 05, 2006, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: Telperion the Silver ]
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Exactly. Who or what is Mental Six. With the actual real person standing in front of him, who or what then is the one living in his mind? See this whole time Gaius has been assuming the one in his head is the same one he loved on Caprica. But that can't be so because the one on Caprica was downloaded into a new body. So who or what is the mental one in Gaius' head. Also, who or what is living inside Caprica Six's mind? That's what I want to know.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
In one episode I seem to remember them talking about a prophecy of a demon doing something or other and in that context it was clear that Gaius' Mental Six was the demon they were referring to. I would be perfectly fine if it turns out the mental people are supernatural Angels or Demons.

Thinking about the theology of the show... does either religion rule out the possibility of other gods? I know Six called the human's gods false gods. But Lucifer (of Christian theology) could be considered a false god while still existing and having many powers. Could the Clyon God be the humans' devil? And the humans' gods the clyon devils?
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Exactly Amanecer.

There are 12 Colonial Gods. The 12 Olympians of Kobol. But there was a 13th. If you remember in season one Priestess Eloshia tells Col. Tigh that the Lords of Kobol and Mankind lived in peace till one of their number wanted to be raised above all the other Gods, thus the war on Kobol began. Then Six, who is walking behind the others with Gaius, says "Blasphemy! There were never any other gods, only the One."

So my theory is that the Cylon God is the rebel 13th Lord of Kobol... and that the Six in Gaius and the Gaius in Six are eminations of that being.

Cylon God = Iblis/Satan
Lords of Kobol = Beings of Light/Angels
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
Oh yeah... I'd forgotten about that exchange. Your theory is wise. [Big Grin]
 
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
 
But then what does that make the Cylon-Human child?

One of the things I've been having debates about is the nature of the Cylon religion. There doesn't seem to be like a head person in charge interpreting God's will like a Prophet- more like there is a complete understanding of the religion, so no need for prophecy. However, we have a complete restructuring of the religion with Caprica 6 and Boomer leading the way, and the clip of the Reverend saying "I could have told you that killing them was wrong."

So who exactly is/was in charge of the Cylons if they are subject to free will, and not just a collective conscious? Who interpreted their Gods will to destroy the humans, or was it just a group decision, and once made, everyone accepted it?
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Or maybe their God came down and told them directly...

If the Cylon God is the fallen 13th Lord of Kobol and had a grudge against Mankind, it would make sense if he came down, helped Cylon evolution, and told them to destroy the true children of the Gods.

One of the main driving dictates of the Cylon religion is to have children. For some reason the Cylon God wants the Cylons to have kids, with Humans. This Cylon baby is the culmination of that plan.

In deleted scenes from "Downloaded" shows Gina and the Cylon journalist, number Three, plotting to capture the baby who had just been born. While in Gina's room Three calls the baby Hera, but Gina says not to call it after a Human god. When asked what to call the baby, she says "just call her 13".

[ October 05, 2006, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: Telperion the Silver ]
 
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
 
I believe the cylon god hasn't exactly said babies "with humans", just that a commandment is to have babies (which, honestly, doesn't make much sense if you could just BUILD another cylon). I reference what Sharon said when they were on Caprica "One of our commandments is to produce offspring, we've been having trouble with that."

As far as the "call her 13" reference, I think that's just reference that she's model number 13, not named after the 13th god, but either has a strong argument for it.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
Guess what happens tonight at 9...

SEASON THREE STARTS!!! WAHOO!
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
So wait, there's not one but two episodes tonight? Insanity. 2 hours of Battlestar Galactica tonight! Woo!
 
Posted by dawnmaria (Member # 4142) on :
 
Oh my gods, that rocked! I am emotionally spent right now. Must sleep and watch again tomorrow for more clarity. [Sleep]
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
Even though I'm only now starting to watch the Season 2.0 DVD set, I know enough of what's going on to watch. I'm not gonna miss this just because it spoils the entire second season.

New Battlestar! Whoohoo!
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
[Eek!]

What's really weird is by the time the premiere rolled around, I was accepting of where they were, even though at the finale's end, I'd been very uneasy about the skipping-a-whole-year-thing.
 
Posted by Miro (Member # 1178) on :
 
That's how I felt, too.

***SPOILERS FOR THE SEASON 3 PREMIERE***

I find it hard to believe that Jammer is an actual cop. At first I assumed that he must be undercover for the resistance, but it seems that he's not. I feel like I'm missing something.

Also, was anybody else bugged by the left side of Lee's face? It seemed way out of proportion. Made it hard for me to take him seriously.
 
Posted by Mike (Member # 55) on :
 
Wow. This is going to be an amazing season.
 
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
 
"Also, was anybody else bugged by the left side of Lee's face? It seemed way out of proportion. Made it hard for me to take him seriously."

He's probably growing a second head out the side of his neck.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
***3x01 Spoilers***

Lee's beer gut has GOT to go. NOW. It was one of the most disappointing things I've seen in ages. [Smile]

Amazing episode. I totally cheered at the "Get your fat a$$ out of my office" line, even though I'm somewhat in love with Lee. I thought the writing was up to its usual very high standards and the plot wasn't too convoluted.

High points: Sharon Agathon. [Big Grin] Kasey is the most adorable child on television - is she not super-cute?! The Return of Tom Zarek. [Big Grin]

I am so excited for the rest of the season. I'm also excited because I have real-life friends to watch the show with me every week, too. [Smile]
 
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
 
"You tried to rig the election a year ago?"
"Yes."
"I wish you would have gone through with it."
"So do I."
 
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
 
Holy Crap!

I'd been saying for a week now that Gaius better do something pretty awful to live up to the constant "Sometimes you have to do things you hate to survive" line. They did not disappoint. I'd put that scene just behind the Sharon in danger scene from the Pegasus torture arc in emotional intensity. I wasn't on the edge of my seat with my heart racing, but I was close.

Six in the head is back. Yea! The method of her return brings up a few questions, though.

I love that Laura wouldn't look Gaius in the eye and say that suicide bombing is right but wouldn't say it was wrong, either. I love that she and Gaelan oppose it but Tigh wants Baltar dead so bad he'll do anything to get it. His monolog about being the agents of death may be one of my new favorite tv quotes.

I HATE that Dee and Lee and married. Besides the obvious stupidness of their combined names, I think they're awful for each other, and I have legal and moral concerns about Dee serving under her husband. It also seems like an awful lot of weddings for one year. Is there anybody left single on this show?

And the ending? So wrong. Now we can spend the rest of the week debating about who opened fire there at the end.

What a great start to the season!
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
quote:
And the ending? So wrong. Now we can spend the rest of the week debating about who opened fire there at the end.
Remember how Adama said that the centurians aren't really sentient, that they can't distinguish one bio cylon from the next? I'm hoping that Boomer runs in and commands them to stop and then shoots the priest or something. Cause if you remember she was hanging around the caravan before it left... maybe she snuck off with it... 'spose that's kinda a stretch though.
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
Lee's weight gain seems a bit out of character, it is a self assault over some feeling of self loathing obviously. However, most frightening is his loss of the will to fight the Cylons and recover the people. Even in an assault where half of humanity is killed by the attack against the Cylons the number of survivors is ten times the fleet numbers so Lee's argument that he wants to preserve humanity is a bit of self justified cowardice. It is upsetting.

The heavy handed manipulation of Starbuck is disturbing but it is amazing drama. I think that she may just be shifting gears in her fight, but a little girl trumps all other emotional cards. (What if it is not a successful crossbreed but instead is a immature six?)

I did not know it was a two hour premiere but it did not seem long at all, however I found it murderous after the DVD experience to have to sit through commercials, I may have to get a hard drive to record the shows and cut the commercials.

I did find the comparisons between the Iraq conflict and the Cylons to be heavy handed, so I will point out what should be obvious to anyone, the humans where not bothering anybody and were doing just fine if a bit slow to get their technology up and running. It is obvious that the analogy of the well meaning Cylons screwing everything up being like our campaign in central Asia breaks down at this point. The Cylons could have stayed in orbit and provided improved technology to ease their guilt, or just left humanity alone and achieved the same ends. Therefore they have another agenda in play, perhaps the perfection of the crossbreeding program. We moved on Iraq and Afghanistan because they where intolerable regimes, our desire to help them after that fact in no way shifts responsibility to us for the conditions that the people there created.

As for the mythology, one wonders about the possibility of time travel, this idea of a circular loop in history may imply a time jaunt. If a group of Cylons and humans where to end up in the past they could be the twelve tribes of Kobol that found the colonies.

However if we assume linear time then Kobol must have been settled by Humans from Earth from the Hellenic period, perhaps a sort of Atlantis mythology where a small piece of humanity became very advanced and found a way to FTL, If so then the departure of that group begins the development of Kobol which leads to the war and fragmentation and the colonies with a legend of Earth.

There are some obvious things the Cylons could do that they have not done that make it hard to suspend my disbelief. First it would be a trivial matter to put a tracking device on every one of 42000 humans and monitor them photographically at all times from the air. They could also provide better housing with the double edged sword of a security grid.

In many ways the 'look' has become more important then having things make sense. Machines should seek maximum efficiency, that should be the source of conflict, humanity choked off by the tendency to over-control. The freedom of the camp as shown in the first episode leaves many options between 'leave them alone' and 'line them up against the wall'.
 
Posted by PUNJABEE (Member # 7359) on :
 
I don't think that kid is Kara's. I think it's Hera. The *actual* Human/Cylon hybrid that belongs to Boomer and Helo.

I bet you anything that Cylon that is 'married' to Kara (I can't remember his name.. Ethan?) is the one that threw the baby down the stairwell to get Kara to emote.
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
"Do you know that everytime they take you out of this cell, we come in here, and we change those little hash marks on your little calander there that you're trying to hide?"

Great line.

--j_k
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
Did anyone besides me catch the Seinfeld reference in the second hour? I laughed at that because I really never expected a serious show to reference Seinfeld.
 
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
 
Kara never seemed like the mothering type to me. I really hope that she's using the child as an excuse to "fall in love" with the skin-job, and look for an opportunity to escape. She may have a maternal instinct, but I think she's one of the most patriotic fighters in the crew, and I don't think for a second she'll give up her husband for the creep keeping her hostage.
 
Posted by Marlozhan (Member # 2422) on :
 
Is this episode going to be on iTunes today, like last season episodes were?
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
I believe it will be. I haven't heard otherwise.
 
Posted by Mike (Member # 55) on :
 
Why are the priests suddenly so evil? They seemed innocuous at best in season 2.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
quote:
Why are the priests suddenly so evil? They seemed innocuous at best in season 2.
Yeah, I was wondering that myself. They were my second favorite cylon model in season 2 (after Sharon), cause they were so sarcastic and cynical and seem relatively harmless. You know, not so much into the whole cylon religious war thing. Suddenly they're the one's with all the evil ideas and wanted to crack down. Wtf, mate?
 
Posted by PUNJABEE (Member # 7359) on :
 
The Priests are probably the leaders, or highest order of the skinjobs.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
I dunno, I'd gotten the impression that the Dorals were the highest order skin-job.
 
Posted by Marlozhan (Member # 2422) on :
 
I just wish I had cable right now. iTunes still doesn't have it, and you guys talking about the first episode doesn't help. [Razz]
 
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
 
Emule has it, with huge numbers of seeders, 30-80 for each episode. I'm sure it's on bit torrent too.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
pfresh - There was a "Seinfeld" reference? Oh well, I've never really seen the show...

Here's my dumb question for the evening - why are there no Leoben models in the President's council/office meetings? I mean, even Simon's there - why not Leoben? Is his model line too crazy to include in important decisions?

Do the model numbers relate to their importance - or status within the Cylon skin-job hierarchy? Because Doral's a Five, FWIW, and we don't know Cavil's number, though I was figuring it to be around Two.
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
In the second sex scene between the Cylon priest and Tigh's wife, he asks her what happened to the pinch at the end and what it was that she did at the end instead. She said it was a swirl. This is a direct reference to the episode of Seinfeld where Jerry told someone about his "moves" which included a counter-clockwise swirl at the end. The guy he told it to did the same moves but changed it to a pinch at the end.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
I was impressed. I think the kid is Kara's, but I also have trouble accepting her maternal vibes. When he left the kid alone with her, I expected her to try and kill it. I like MightyCow's idea that it's a setup.

General Sax, I don't feel like getting into a big discussion about this because I'm sure we both know each other's arguments already. Suffice it to say that I do not agree with your assessment of the Iraqi war. While the parallel is obviously not exact, I think the show is exploring themes that are important and relevant.

And T_Smith, I now see what you were saying about Gaius. Before I thought you were saying that what Gaius had initially done on the first Caprica would become public knowledge. Now I get it and you're right. Although I could see them imprisoning him instead of putting him in exile.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
ARRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! STUUUUPIIIDDD ITUNES! THOSE IDIOTS AT APPLE HAVE NOT POSTED THE DOWNLOAD YET!!!!!!!! WHY GOD WHY!!!!!!!!!!!?????????? HOW LONG MUST I WAIT!!!!!!!!

BTW, in case you missed, I'm kind of annoyed. Also I posted this without reading anything, so I have no idea what has happened. I read the bit about Sharon and that was it. I skipped everything elso. I really hope that I get to join the conversation soon.
 
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
 
It's freaky, how much the chief looks like Mario Savio.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
He doesn't really look like the picture wikipedia has of Mario Savio... least wise I didn't think so.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
From your link:
quote:
Mario Savio's influence continues to be felt into the twenty-first century. A paraphrase of his famous "gears of the machine" speech appears in the March 2006 season 2 finale of Battlestar Galactica (2003). In a podcast about the episode, one of the producers revealed that the original speech had been hanging on his wall for the last five years, and that the paraphrase had been used with the permission of Savio's widow.

 
Posted by Yozhik (Member # 89) on :
 
quote:
I think the kid is Kara's, but I also have trouble accepting her maternal vibes
To me it was believable, because she didn't show any caring toward the (tremendously adorable) child until the child got hurt. It wasn't the cuteness of the kid, or watching the kid play, that brought out the caring instinct -- it was seeing her hurt. (We found out earlier that Kara was often beaten as a child -- so she knows all about what it is like to be little, powerless, and in pain. I see her as a person who would want to protect little vulnerable children from suffering what she suffered.)
 
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
 
Savio. It's it's not just a physical likeness, it's more of an aspect change. The cadence of the chief's speech has changed, as well as his bearing. It's like you can see Savio in him to an alarming degree.
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
Maybe it was just me, but didn't the kid seem a little too old to be Kara's? The kid looked older than 1.5-2 years old to me. I mean I'm just trying to think about this as far as the timeline of the show. If the kid had been born around the same time they found New Caprica, then she should be 1 year and 4 months old or so. If you assume that she was born before that (probably born shortly after Kara escaped that place), that still makes her around 2 or so (being generous, I think). I could be totally off in judging the little girl's age, but she just seems older than 2 to me.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
Leoben took psychological warfare to a whole new level when he introduced Kasey.
 
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
 
I kept rooting for Kara to strangle Kasey. There would have been some interesting fallout from that.
 
Posted by Flamingstick_onatoad (Member # 9785) on :
 
The real thread doesnt exsist...much like cats and self esteem of people on this forum. Except for me...im a narcissist...and FYODOR MIKHAILOVITCH DOESTOEVSKY!
 
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
 
I'm with Theca. I was really hoping that the Cylon would come in and Kara would be eating the kid's feet on a dinner plate. It's a well-known fact that baby feet are a delicacy, so it's an important test to see if half-human, half-cylon baby feet are any good.


Also, where the heck did Lee get a freezer full of Bonbons? Was one of the ships an ice cream transport?
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
Anyone else wondering why the Cylons are so hostile toward suicide bombing (aside from the obvious)? Is there something in the Cylon Doctrine against suicide?

IIRC, the only other suicide bombing on the show was Six blowing herself up on Cloud 9 at the end of the last season.

--j_k
 
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
 
"Also, where the heck did Lee get a freezer full of Bonbons? Was one of the ships an ice cream transport?"

Complete with jingle.
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
They can't be that difficult to make, provided you have all the ingredients. The show has never been too specific on that. I could probably count the number of times food shortages were mentioned on a single hand.

Maybe they're tofu bonbons?

--j_k
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
quote:
IIRC, the only other suicide bombing on the show was Six blowing herself up on Cloud 9 at the end of the last season.
First season, a Doral blows himself up in the Galactica.
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
Um. That too.

--j_k
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Okay, there's really no reason not to believe the kid is hers. Plus who the heck wants to see Kara kill the kid? WTF is wrong with you people? Yes, I think that Leoben is definately using psychological warfare to new heights with this move, but quite frankly I am rooting for the kid to be hers. It will give Starbuck a new dimension and somewhere to go with her character. She became very one dimensional and as she said on Caprica to Helo, she was just fighting because she didn't know how to do anything else. The kid, her family, gives her a reason to go on and to fight. A mother's instinct is very strong. That little girl is going to add a very interesting dimension to Starbuck. She'll become less of a risk taker. The lines between human and cylon are going to get blurry.

iTunes still does not have the eps, but yes it is on bit torrent. iTunes are idiots. No one is going to download them when they can get them for free instead. I won't be downloading this first two episodes. If they get their act together and start posting them on Saturday like they were, then I will buy. I don't like the file sharing tech. It opens you up too many viruses and such. BUT...if I have to wait a week until the ep comes online, then I will do daily virus scans if I have to. Someone frakked up bigtime here. They lost so much money this weekend. Idiots.
 
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
 
Yeah, I'm a sick person right now.

If these half human kids are so precious, why would they risk leaving one with Kara?

Although I've always wondered just WHY Sharon's kid was considered important in any way considering they had farms of women, and ovaries. There could be thousands of babies. And if Kasey isn't important I still don't see why the crazy Cylon would bother with the truth if Kara will fall for a lie. Lies are easier.
 
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
 
I hope that the baby Kara is pretending to be motherly with is actually a full Cylon baby. Essentially a toy Cylon, made for the express purpose of duping humans and playing on their emotions. It seems like something the Cylons would do, to whatever strange ends they're working towards.

It also gives Kara a good reason to feast on its tender, young flesh.
 
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by PUNJABEE:
I don't think that kid is Kara's. I think it's Hera. The *actual* Human/Cylon hybrid that belongs to Boomer and Helo.

I bet you anything that Cylon that is 'married' to Kara (I can't remember his name.. Ethan?) is the one that threw the baby down the stairwell to get Kara to emote.

Leoben. And I don't think it's Hera. Leoben is too psyched about having a kid with Kara to lie about it.
 
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by pfresh85:
Did anyone besides me catch the Seinfeld reference in the second hour? I laughed at that because I really never expected a serious show to reference Seinfeld.

Um... no? What was it?
 
Posted by PUNJABEE (Member # 7359) on :
 
@Lisa


quote:
Originally posted by pfresh85:
In the second sex scene between the Cylon priest and Tigh's wife, he asks her what happened to the pinch at the end and what it was that she did at the end instead. She said it was a swirl. This is a direct reference to the episode of Seinfeld where Jerry told someone about his "moves" which included a counter-clockwise swirl at the end. The guy he told it to did the same moves but changed it to a pinch at the end.


 
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Theca:
Although I've always wondered just WHY Sharon's kid was considered important in any way considering they had farms of women, and ovaries.

My guess is because Sharon's was a child conceived naturally out of love. The Cylons seem to have a thing with trying to figure out love. At least they went on about it enough in the last season.


As for why they would put a child in the room with Starbuck, perhaps winning her over is very important and worth the risk. It is also possible that they were sure that she wouldn't hurt the child so they didn't see it as a risk.
 
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
I can't figure out why Starbuck wasn't more maternal before anyway. It was a beef I had with previous seasons in that it just doesn't make sense to me that there wouldn't have been an enormous shift of cultural priority with regard to children and childbearing. Seriously, if you know that there are only 50,000 humans left in the entire universe, it only stands to reason that the "experts" would be making a strong push for valuing children and childbearing almost more than adults. That there would almost become a worshipful quality to being pregnant, and that children and women in their childbearing years would be the most protected section of society. I would have thought that even among the military ranks, women would be under tremendous pressure to have children, lots of them, even if they didn't want to raise them themselves.

Yet in an episode in season 2 there was debate over whether abortion should continue to be allowed, and Roslin upheld it (if I remember right). Hunh? Anyway, aside from that, with Starbuck being married for over a year, and seeing everyone else having kids, I'd be very, very much surprised if she didn't harbor at least a little hunger to be a mommy, even if her tough-girl exterior couldn't quite allow her to admit it out loud. I found her anguish at Kasey's injury believable...I didn't find her reaching out for Leoben's hand believable at all.

Great episode. This is going to be a fun season. [Smile]
 
Posted by Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged (Member # 7476) on :
 
Can it be called a suicide bombing when the Cyclons get downloaded into a new body?
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
I don't think Six on Cloud 9 was downloaded -- this was long after the Resurrection Ship was destroyed, after all.

--j_k
 
Posted by Kasie H (Member # 2120) on :
 
Roslin outlawed abortion, though she did so after she allowed the girl who appeared in the episode to have one.

I think Kara will put Kasey on her team and use it as an excuse to believably be on the cylons' side. Remember his vision about her saying she loved him? I think it's an excuse to be able to convince him she's in love with him when she really isn't.
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
http://www.battlestargalacticasite.com/2006/10/bsg_to_nbc_can_it_survive.php

BSG may move to NBC at 9. Not a good idea in my opinion. I fear a shift to NBC primetime, not "good enough" ratings, and then cancellation. I hope it stays where it is.
 
Posted by PUNJABEE (Member # 7359) on :
 
Hmm... I dont know how I would feel about BSG moving to NBC... I think it should stay on Sci-Fi.


Though, if it went to NBC - I'd get it in HD. So naturally I'm torn.
 
Posted by PUNJABEE (Member # 7359) on :
 
Cool video.

BSG Vs Star Wars.
 
Posted by Kasie H (Member # 2120) on :
 
Boo. They definitely couldn't show the scene between Tigh's wife and the cylon if it moves off cable to network.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Personally, I wouldn't mind losing some of the racier elements of the show, but beyond that, a move to NBC would mean death for BSG. Then again, the ending scene of Heroes on Monday was pretty graphic. So maybe not. However, being on Scifi is definately hurting BSG's ratings. Not enough people are seeing it and taking it seriously.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
Maybe it could play on both... *wishful thinking*
 
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
It's been done before. The show Psych ran on USA this summer, and after an episode or two, they started running it on NBC (or CBS, I forget) as well.
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
http://www.tvsquad.com/2006/10/10/will-battlestar-galactica-make-a-jump-to-nbc/

Looks like NBC is now saying it's just an online rumor. I can only hope that they're telling the truth and not just covering it up.
 
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
 
Note before I comment:

I have not watched one full episode of BSG.

Not because I think it is unworthy, but because I'm trying to cut down on my addicitions, and BSG can quickly become an addiction.

But from what I've read here, the heavilly religious tones of the story, does anyone forsee a possible Abraham/Isaac moment in the near future. Starbuck told to Kill the halfbreed child, but stopped at the last minute by some kind of divine, or internal, angelic influence?

Just a thought.
 
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
 
BSG has been show a few different times on NBC, mostly as one shots when they need time to fill. So has Monk. I doubt they'll move it, but it was a good way to get the show in front of more people.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dan_raven:
does anyone forsee a possible Abraham/Isaac moment in the near future. Starbuck told to Kill the halfbreed child, but stopped at the last minute by some kind of divine, or internal, angelic influence?

Interesting thought, but I don't think so. The religious overtones of the show seem to be self contained within the sphere of their own inner dogma. It doesn't seem to me that the writers are pulling biblical allegories into the storylines. If anything, if Kasey is Kara's child, she, with Hera (Helo and Sharon's kid) are going to be a point of peace between the humans and cylons. For humans especially, they will be the answer to survival.

One thing about the cross breed children is that they would inherit the cylon strenght and intelligence, but they would still be more like humans than cylon. Their consciences can't be downloaded because of their human half, thus eliminating their immortality.

I would imagine that the humans are eventually going to grasp this concept and see the obvious advantages it gives them for survival.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
quote:
I would imagine that the humans are eventually going to grasp this concept and see the obvious advantages it gives them for survival.
Are you kidding me? There's no way most humans would except that. They'd call it the destruction of the human race, becoming half toasters. And to some degree it'd be true. I can't see the average joe in the fleet supporting this idea. Hell I can't even see Roslin or Adama supporting it except as a last ditch effort to save something of humanity.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
Heh, this reminds me of Octavia Butler's Xenogenesis trilogy. These aliens rig it so that humans aren't able to have children on their own. They can only do so with the aid of aliens that will alter the DNA. Those that have children are branded traitors and people try to kill them. Battlestar is different because they can still have human babies. Even still, I don't see people warming up to cross bred children.

[Edited for spelling.]

[ October 11, 2006, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: Amanecer ]
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
So what? You are saying that we don't already use artificial means to prolong life? Scientists today are already trying to find ways to marry the biological with the technical. Wouldn't that just be a major step in the evolution of humanity. The toasters represent the accomplishment of what we are already trying to do. The enhancement and extension of life through technology.

Who's to that if the cylons have evolved to the point that there are identical to humans, that have become human themselves. I find it interesting that the only thing that stops them from being completely human is the fact that they cannot procreate, only duplicate. However, they can procreate with humans. Humans can't procreate with machines, only other humans. So why doesn't that make the cylons just another race of human?

The really funny thing is that because of this, from the cylon point of view, if they had attacked humanity by having babies they would have accomplished their goals and eventually completely replaced humans without humanity knowing it.

[ October 11, 2006, 04:29 PM: Message edited by: ReddwarfVII ]
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
The toasters have all but destroyed the human race. Further, humans have a strong attachment to humanity. While it might make them stronger and whatnot, I think most would perceive the cost as too high. The phrase "selling your soul" comes to mind. There is too much hatred toward the cylons and esteem in being human for a mix to be desirable.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Amanecer:
The phrase "selling your soul" comes to mind.

The cylons would have to get over their whole destory and replace attitude as well.
 
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
Anyone think that we Earth humans are the descendents of Cylons?
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
No. Interesting idea... would be cool. But really doubt that's what they're gonna end up doing.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
Part of their theology states that there was a thirteenth colony that in ancient times went to a planet known as Earth. Presumably we are that thirteenth colony. I don't think us being Cylon descendents fits into the show's setup.

Does anybody know how many episodes there are supposed to be this season?
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
I believe there are 20, but it is set up like season 2 was (10 eps, then a break, then 10 more).

--j_k
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
The break's not that long this season - the current stretch of 10 goes through December and then picks up again at the end of January, ending in time for the return of the Stargates.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
I believe that we shouldnt look too deep into their theology. Remember We are Earth and they're trying to find us.

So I think for now I'll awesome that the Colonials came from Kobal and so did we but in a completely different direction fopr whatever reason.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
I still think that they are going to find it is backwards and that Earth is the original home of humanity. Humanity fled earth for whatever reasons to Kobol and when humanity fled Kobol, the 13th went to go find Earth. Am I really out there on this?

For me I would say that BSG is taking place in our very distant future, rather than our past or present. This isn't like the original series. If the ships ever reach Earth, it isn't going to be the Earth of the present like the original series.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ReddwarfVII:
This isn't like the original series. If the ships ever reach Earth, it isn't going to be the Earth of the present like the original series.

Or at least I think that it would be really lame if it was. [Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Indeed it would be the biggest mistake if Earth is our tech level or earlier.

I believe that if they reach Earth itll be advanced enough to help out the Colonials but primitive enough to require the services of the Battlestars.
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
A pretty good episode of Battlestar Galactica tonight. I liked that we're seeing more about what happened to Hera (including that she's well defended) and the ramifications of the faked death. I also like the idea that with each reload, the human-like Cylons endure more pain to come back. It's interesting.

The preview for next week makes it clear that Apollo doesn't listen and jumps with Galactica into battle (as at the beginning, you hear "2 Battlestars have jumped in" and later you hear Adama saying "Damnit Lee, jump."). It's coming down to a possible all-or-nothing battle over New Caprica. Crazy stuff. I'm still hooked.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
Hmm... couldn't the original tribes of Kobol in fact be decendants of Atlantis? That would explain the greek god system and the higher technology...
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
quote:
Maybe it was just me, but didn't the kid seem a little too old to be Kara's? The kid looked older than 1.5-2 years old to me.
After seeing Hera, the supposed first human-cylon baby, I think it's quite possible that Kasey isn't Kara's. Before I was unsure because I'm awful at judging kids' ages plus in television shows they frequently get older kids to play the role of younger kids. But Kasey is undoubtedly older than Hera. Maybe cylon-human babies grow faster? If not, something is amiss.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
***Spoilers for the "Stay Tuned for scenes from next week" section of tonight's episode***

Was that the Pegasus I saw ramming a base star??? Wow!
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
Gah, I didn't see it!

Still, good episode.

I REALLY want to see next week's.

And... Adama gave a good speech, IMHO
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Amanecer:
After seeing Hera, the supposed first human-cylon baby, I think it's quite possible that Kasey isn't Kara's. Before I was unsure because I'm awful at judging kids' ages plus in television shows they frequently get older kids to play the role of younger kids. But Kasey is undoubtedly older than Hera. Maybe cylon-human babies grow faster? If not, something is amiss.

Well I could be terribly off at guessing the age as well. I had thought of the "cylon-human baby growing faster" thing as well, but if that was true shouldn't Hera also appear older? I may just be making too much out of this, as I could easily be misreading the age. Kasey just seemed too old to be Starbuck's to me (which made me super suspicious from the start).
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
Does anyone else think that Casey is really just an immature six model or something? She looks a hell of a lot more like six than she does like Leoben or Kara. The curly hair, that sorta grin. Plus... she's kinda manipulating, just like the sixes. Like her expression when she grabbed Kara's finger. That spoke 'inteligent manipulation' to me. Rather than kid wanting mommy.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
Alcon, I had the same thought. But aren't the skinjob Cylons already full-grown? How do they produce them?

...and Adama's speech was great. I'll follow you, too!

And Lee had better jump and help Galactica. [Mad]
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
*Spoilers from the preview, so if you didn't see it and don't want to be spoiled about its content stay back*: I really hope that Lee at least sends the civilian fleet to the rendezvous point. We know that he jumps to New Caprica as well, is involved in the fight, and at one that Adama is cursing that he hasn't left yet. If Lee brings the whole civilian fleet with him though, he's just being extra stupid. I mean now you're gambling all of humanity on a single battle. That's not a good move. Sure an unprotected civilian fleet isn't a really good move either, but at least it has a slightly better chance of survival for the human race. In reality, I would have hoped that Lee would have followed his own advice (originally) and Adama's orders and stayed with the civilian fleet at the rendezvous point. At least in that case if Galactica fails and such, there's still a fighting chance that humanity can survive.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
quote:
there's still a fighting chance that humanity can survive.
Not really. There were only 1000 or so people in the human fleet. That's not really a big enough population size with which to repopulate the human race. Least... I don't think it is. Or if they try there would be some serious problems with genetic diversity with in like... 3 generations.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
quote:
I had thought of the "cylon-human baby growing faster" thing as well, but if that was true shouldn't Hera also appear older?
Hmmm, you are correct.

As for it being an immature Six, or for that matter a pure cylon baby, if they're able to make children on their own I don't understand the push for human-cylon babies. But I guess those are the only options. It's either half human or all cylon and I'm leaning towards it's not half human.
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Alcon:
Not really. There were only 1000 or so people in the human fleet. That's not really a big enough population size with which to repopulate the human race. Least... I don't think it is. Or if they try there would be some serious problems with genetic diversity with in like... 3 generations.

Agreed that there would be a genetic diversity problem in a few generations. Still though, if they found Earth before that problem came into play (assuming Earth still does have people on it), then it wouldn't be that much of a problem.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
If you're gambling on them finding Earth, then the fleet's survival isn't important to the overall survival of the human race.
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
I guess so. It still just seems too risky to me. Do we have any idea how many people there are in total, on New Caprica, and on Galactica/Pegasus/the civilian fleet? I don't recall hearing any numbers mentioned, and I couldn't find any with a cursory search online. The total numbers could possibly still be low enough to have a genetic diversity problem, which just makes the whole thing a moot point if they don't find Earth.

The only reason I believe that Pegasus + the civilian fleet could possibly keep the human race alive if Galactica fails is just because that seems to be an idea behind the men in charge. Lee wanted the whole fleet to continue on, not too worried that humanity would be extinguished without the people from New Caprica. Even Adama wanted Lee to take the Pegasus and the civilian fleet and continue on just in case. It's true they could only be thinking about the present situation and not generations down the line. Still I think it's hard to render an accurate judgement without knowing total population size (for all the humans from the fleet) compared to the number of people in the fleet still and the number of people on New Caprica.

EDIT: If someone could go back to the last episode of season 2 in the opening where it showed how many people there were, we'd have a rough idea of total population size. We still don't know about the break down between fleet and colonists though.

EDIT 2: I found somewhere saying that the population prior to New Caprica was almost 50,000. Even if we assume that the population on New Caprica is near 40,000 (which is what Wikipedia lists), that still leaves 10,000 in the fleet. Anyone have a rough idea how good that is diversity-wise?
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Pfresh, orgiginally the Fleet's population was about 49,900. Around 10,000 were killed with the destruction of Cloud 9 and surrounding ships. A year later the population of New Caprica was about 38,000. So with 1 or 2 thousand in what remains of the fleet we have 40,000 surviving humans, total.
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
Oh, I forgot about the destruction of Cloud 9 and the other ships there. Did they say that 10,000 were killed in that? I probably need to go back and look at that.

Even so, I think my point still stands. Even with only 1000-2000 in the fleet, they could still survive a few generations (let's say three as a super low estimate). Isn't three generations of survival (and the time associated with that which could be used to try and find Earth) better than zero generations of survival? Isn't some chance better than no chance?

I am not trying to say that I disagree with Adama going back for the people of New Caprica. It's the morally right thing to do I think. You can't leave your people behind, particularly after you've been through so much. I'm just trying to say I think it would be sort of stupid to risk everything in one gamble. I truly believe Lee will only bring Pegasus with him (leaving the civilian fleet at the rendezvous point), which is fine. If he does bring the rest of the fleet with him, he's stupid and risking everything.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
quote:
if they're able to make children on their own I don't understand the push for human-cylon babies
The skin-jobs are all clones. Clones start as babies and grow up. Just cause its a baby doesn't mean its not a pure cylon clone.
 
Posted by Mike (Member # 55) on :
 
So a population of 1000 isn't enough to survive more than 3 generations? Huh?
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
That was an a very low estimate on my part, I think. With proper planning, even a group of 500 could survive for a handful of generations if not more. A group of 1000 would last even longer. The more the population size increases, the longer the species will live (to a certain point where extinction no longer is possible due to lack of genetic diversity).
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
Okay, I knew there had to be a drop due to the whole Cloud 9 nuclear thing.

I would assume the casualties are in the thousands, certainly. As a number of ships went boom. More than I would have hoped. That scene made me cring, for the sake of the continued existence of humanity.

Again, Baltar's fault. Then again, interesting that I cringed more at that then I did at the billions of dead. Because he was only stupid last time, this time the deaths are all totally on his hands.

Anyway, I never saw a number. Let's assume, first, thousands.

The population of New Caprica right before the invasion was 39.192, I think.

Add to that both the skelaton crew of the Galactica and the Pegasus, and the civilian fleet, which if I remember correctly, was about 2,000, and you have... what, about 42,000?

Damn. That'd make the casualties due to Baltar's girlfriend ~7,500 or so. Eesh.
 
Posted by Mike (Member # 55) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by pfresh85:
That was an a very low estimate on my part, I think. With proper planning, even a group of 500 could survive for a handful of generations if not more. A group of 1000 would last even longer. The more the population size increases, the longer the species will live (to a certain point where extinction no longer is possible due to lack of genetic diversity).

Now I'm curious. Do you have a link for this phenomenon? It doesn't seem quite right to me, but then I'm not a geneticist.
 
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
 
I haven't taken any genetics classes for years, so I may be wrong, but I don't think there's any inherent instability in a population of over 1,000 that will cause extinction. Unless there are some widespread and very serious genetic problems among the population, I don't imagine that anyone would ever notice.

With accurate record keeping, it would be easy to prevent inbreeding with a family line for many generations. Encourage fairly large families and keep people from marrying relations and you're set.

For a very rough estimate, this article on the genetic diversity of wild horse populations concluded that a breeding population of 100 horses in a herd was sufficient to provide for long term viability.

http://www.wildhorsepreservation.com/resources/genetic.html

edit:

According to this article on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toba_catastrophe_theory
There is a theory that the human population WAS reduced to between 1,000 and 10,000 people approximately 70,000 years ago. We seem to be doing ok. [Smile]

[ October 15, 2006, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: MightyCow ]
 
Posted by Mike (Member # 55) on :
 
Cool, thanks for the info. I'd never really thought about these lower limits from the point of view of genetic diversity.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
Huh, cool. I it's been a while since I've had ecology, I was under the impression the number was more around 10,000 for a stable pop.

But there's also the issue of supply. Does what remains of the human fleet minus the ships on the ground have enough fuel and food to make it to anywhere where they could land and start producing? Somehow I doubt it. What happened to that tilium processing ship? Did it land? Where'd it go?
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Exactly Alcon...
From what I see on the dvd the Cloud 9 detonation also took out their biotanical cruiser too (the Silent Running tribute ship with the domes). I don't think any other ships besides the bio-cruiser and Cloud 9 can grow crops. As for the Tilium refinery who knows?

[ October 16, 2006, 03:23 AM: Message edited by: Telperion the Silver ]
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Yeah, the whole food supply issue has had me wondering for awhile. Without the Cloud 9 and other bio ships, where in the world are these getting food?

Is it possible that they converted some of the cargo spaces on some ships into hydroponic farms? What about meat? Do they have like some cattle ships or something?
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
quote:
The skin-jobs are all clones. Clones start as babies and grow up.
I'm not sure why they would do it that way. As we've already seen, they have huge plants with tons and tons of pre-made adults clones waiting for an "essence" to download. Why go through the effort of raising them? Especially since I don't think that making clones fulfills the God's commandment to multiply.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
quote:
I'm not sure why they would do it that way. As we've already seen, they have huge plants with tons and tons of pre-made adults clones waiting for an "essence" to download. Why go through the effort of raising them? Especially since I don't think that making clones fulfills the God's commandment to multiply.
When did we see that? Even so, even if these clones don't have an essence yet and are in cryo storage or something, they still probably had to start as immature types. And then grow. Even if they've somehow found a way to skip that step of the cloning process that doesn't mean they aren't capable of it. No cloning doesn't fulfil the commandment to multiply, obviously.

Look, their ability to make adult clones (which I'm not entirely convinced exists) does not remove their ability to make baby clones. And why in the world would the ability to make baby clones check off the 'multiply' commandment? They're still clones. They obviously take that commandment to mean: create genetic diversity.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
quote:
When did we see that?
When Lee flew into the Ressurection Ship, there were hundreds, if not thousands, of inanimate Sixes. It's possible they start off immature, but I guess I always assumed they didn't. It's an interesting thought. If so, why are all of them exactly the same age? Do Cylons age?

And you're right, I guess they could make a baby clone. I wonder where that "essence" would come from. It seems like right now they are inanimate until they get downloaded. I guess they could make a program just for the baby.
 
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
We saw it in when they showed the resurrection ship. We also saw it when Sharon downloaded into her new body and Six started seeing Baltar-in-the-Head. I don't think the skin-jobs are clones. They're constructs.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
I agree jeniwren. Owing to the fact that they are still machines at their most basic core, programming has to take place at some point. I would personally assume that they create empty shells for the purpose of downloading. Those bodies could be constructs that are created in an adult form. Sure they could still "grow" them, but that does not mean that the empty shells are grown from a childlike physical state all the way to the adult state. Human growth works like that, but I would think for the sake of uniformity and speed of creation that the cylons would have shortened the process and just made the constructs adults in the first place. Even in the construction of new independent intelligences or programs to fill constructs, what usefulness would it be to the cylons to create kid cylons that would have to go through the years long growth process.

In fact, childhood would have been seen as unnessary if an intelligence can be programmed with all of the necessary knowledge from the beginning. A childhood and the growing up process would produce radically different and unpredictable results in a society governed by uniformity. A society that depends on uniformity to survive and maintain order.

The kid is half-human, but not necessarily Kara's. I agree that she is too old really to be created from Kara's missing ovary. However, the revealed facts speak to the idea that the kid is at least half-human. Cylons do not have a need and possibly not the ability to create immature biological offspring. They so far have only been successful in creating exact phyiscal copies of a limited number of models. They can program new intelligence, but to me it looks like they are really just using the same operating system for each model. Just like most of us are using Windows in some form on our computers. Of course each model, while exactly similar physically, starts out with the same Operating System, but as new information is added (i.e. new software is installed onto the OS) the system adapts and changes.

This stands to reason that if the cylons could create child cylons and introduce genetic diversity into their population, they would have already done so. Humanity would be unnecessary to their survival. But they can't. So the little girl is not an immature cylon because they can't make babies. I also think that is why there are only 12 models of cylon. They were probably the only constructs of multiple versions that could meet all of the requirements of a cylon biological form.

See the cylons understand the need for procreation and genetic diversity in order for a race to have long term survival possibility. The download process is not without it's cost. With each download the price gets higher. Think of Scar, dying and being reborn all of those times. The continue pain of it probably would have or had driven that raider into madness. Ultimately the cylons know that after so many downloads, an intelligence become too corrupted and it descends into madness. They know that they have to give up immortally offered by the download process to ensure their survival. They do not fear permanent death as long as their people continue to evolve and survive.

Of course, once they get back to Galatica, they'll scan the kid's dna, she'll be Kara's and we will be left wondering how on earth Kasey could be older than Hera.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
I hope that rambling makes sense to some of you. I'm really tired and it's late. I kind of just posted my thought process as it evolved.
 
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
 
I hope the baby is a Six clone, and that it has an adult Six mentality, in the body of a child, created for the sole purpose of winning over Kara. That last look was pure manipulation.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
quote:
Yeah, the whole food supply issue has had me wondering for awhile. Without the Cloud 9 and other bio ships, where in the world are these getting food?

Is it possible that they converted some of the cargo spaces on some ships into hydroponic farms? What about meat? Do they have like some cattle ships or something?

Well, after Gina blew herself and the bio-ships up the Colonials had even more reason to stay at New Caprica and grow crops. I figure all the plant foodstuffs on New Caprica are grown on the planet (in the webisodes Doral talks about Cylon and Humans working together to farm, producing that lovely pink drink).

As for meat, that was answered in a deleted scene early in Second Season when Laura, Apollo, Elosia, and Tom are hiding from Galactica on a cargo ship. They are in a freezer onboard and Apollo talks about how this ship might be the most valuable since it carries the last meats in the known universe.
 
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Alcon:
quote:
if they're able to make children on their own I don't understand the push for human-cylon babies
The skin-jobs are all clones. Clones start as babies and grow up. Just cause its a baby doesn't mean its not a pure cylon clone.
Who says they're clones? A clone can't stick a wire in her arm and communicate with a computer.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
Ok, the whole point of my post boils down to this and stands regardless of whether or not you think they are clones, constructs whatever.

Just cause they can't "make babies" the natural way doesn't mean they can't construct a baby the way they make the adult models right now.

quote:
Who says they're clones? A clone can't stick a wire in her arm and communicate with a computer.
Clones in the genetic sense. Their bodies are mostly flesh and blood. DNA, cells, proteins, we learned in the first season that it's all there and indistinguishable from human. The only difference is the way their brain operates. Apparently they have some sorta silica pathways in the brain, and probably along some of their blood vessels as well (hence wire in arm). That doesn't change the fact that biologically they are clones. Each of the models has a certain DNA and each member of the models is a clone of that DNA.

If they can create an adult model off of that DNA, why not a child then? Honestly, you're going to tell me that they have good enough biotechnology to create an adult clone, but not good enough to create a child clone?
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
I don't know if anyone saw this or not, but Dynamite Entertainment (who is responsible for the current Battlestar Galactica comic) announced that they've signed a deal to have two novelists (whose names escape me at the moment) write a 4 issue miniseries called the Cylon Wars, chronicling the first war between humans and cylons. It sounds like it'll be really interesting. Hopefully the art is a little bit better than the current Battlestar Galactica comic though.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Sounds stupid at the moment, but yes. They may not have the ability to create children cylons. The only argument that I would give is the necessity of uniformity. In order to do what they do (downloading, etc) each model clone/construct would have to be created exactly the same for it to work. While they are advanced enough to accomplish what they have, it is likely that they have hit a wall in their ability to develop new biotechology in the creation of life. Hence the research and emphasis on human/cylon integration.

I am not saying that they won't develop the technology, I just saying that they may not have it presently.

Besides, how would they know how to "program" a child. They don't have children and they can't make their own biologically. I would say that they are still too early in their evolution to have the ability to create a child like Kasey that is basically an adult cylon in a child's body. A child with an adult intellect would have a difficult time pulling the wool over Kara's eyes over a long period. If their goal is long term manipulation of Kara, it would simply be easier to create a human/cylon child that would really act like a child and develop like a child would naturally. Giving Kara a real child to care for who looks enough like her to be hers would be a far more effective manipulation using a technology that is already proven than trying to do something that they may have never done before.
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by pfresh85:
I don't know if anyone saw this or not, but Dynamite Entertainment (who is responsible for the current Battlestar Galactica comic) announced that they've signed a deal to have two novelists (whose names escape me at the moment) write a 4 issue miniseries called the Cylon Wars, chronicling the first war between humans and cylons. It sounds like it'll be really interesting. Hopefully the art is a little bit better than the current Battlestar Galactica comic though.

Wow, that's pretty cool. You know if they're gonna be graphic novels or just regular novels?
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
They're comics, not actual novels of any kind. I just mention novelists because they said they actually hired published novelists to write the series.

EDIT: Here's a quote from the website:

quote:
The Cylons were created by Man.
They Rebelled.
They Evolved.
They Look and Feel Human.
Some are programmed to think they are Human.
There are many copies.
And they have a Plan.

Ronald D. Moore’s Battlestar Galactica Universe is set to expand even more in the world of comics and tell a story that’s only been alluded to in the hit Sci Fi television series with the release of Battlestar Galactica: The Cylon Wars from Dynamite Entertainment. As Dynamite explains it:

“This mini-series event is set to reveal the historic events of the first Cylon War, as well as the happenings during the 40 year truce that followed. The idea is quite intense, given that these are the proceedings that Battlestar buffs have been speculating about since the initial mini-series on Sci Fi. With that in mind, we knew that we would need a creative team with a futuristic and scientific sense, so it’s easy to imagine our excitement when Joshua and Eric came on board. Coupling the military-esque aspects of Eric’s work with the scientific components of Joshua’s storytelling style guarantees fans will receive a compelling and precise recount of Battlestar history.”

Co-written by novelists Joshua Ortega (((FREQUENCIES))) and Eric Nylund (Halo – Ghosts of Onyx, First Strike, The Fall of Reach, Signal to Noise, A Signal Shattered, Pawn’s Dream, Dry Water (nominated for the 1997 World Fantasy Award), A Game of Universe), Battlestar Galactica: The Cylon Wars will essentially be a prequel to the TV series, shedding new light on the Colonial Civil War, why the Cylons rebelled, and why they suddenly left 40 years before the bombing of Caprica. The four-issue limited series also marks the first time in comics history that two guys who began their careers as novelists are co-writing a comic book series.


 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
Awesome, thanks for the link pfresh
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Episode tonight! Hopefully we will get a little more insight into the Kasey situation!
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
***spoilers***

Did he just kill her??? [Frown]

[ October 20, 2006, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: Telperion the Silver ]
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
Huh???? No Spoilers until after show, can't watch yet. Please put SPOILERS???
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
Wow... just, wow.

--j_k
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
You people are evil.

As I am in the Pacific Time Zone, the show starts in... a little less than two hours. -_-

I know this is going to be an excellent episode (you know, the culmination of everything. The BIG battle... etc.) But it seems that already you guys are talking about it.

So I guess I'll be waiting until after 10 PM before looking here again...
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
Spoilers for those who haven't seen tonight's episode yet:


Well I underestimated Lee some. I thought he would go into the fight without a plan, just jumping in without thought. He actually put together a decent plan though. Sure it cost them Pegasus, but they didn't seem to lose as many human lives as they could have. They also looked to save most of the people on New Caprica. It looks like a rather successful thing. I also sort of right in that Kasey wasn't Starbuck's kid. I didn't expect her to be a kidnapped kid though; something about her (particularly the way she stared at people) made me want to believe she was a Cylon trick. Oh well. Sometimes you're right, sometimes you're wrong. [Smile]

EDIT: I just wanted to say that the premiere plus these last two episodes has quite possibly been the best 4 hours of television I have witnessed in a while.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
teh awesome.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
[Big Grin] Incredible!

So Gaius is with the Cylons and Xena lady has the baby. Very interesting...

I also wonder how tied they're going to be to their Constitution now. Clearly, Roslin is taking control. Will they hold an election to sustain this or will the results of the last election color them to simply let Roslin rule without Constitutional restraints? We also have the time bomb of Sharon who's quite likely going to turn when she discovers that Hera lives. So much awesomeness!
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
Another great line, from a Viper pilot: "Well, this is going to be different."

I'm kind of surprised that this show is able to top itself every week. The storyline was great, but the effects bypassed my expectations. I'm guessing they blew their SFX budget for the next few episodes.

Amanecer, I love how Roslin just walks in and takes her seat in the room, as if it's just the most normal thing in the world. She's a cool character.

* * *

By the way, I recently had to watch an episode of Star Trek: TNG for a class; it was titled "The Measure of a Man." A court is convened to determine whether or not Data is property of Starfleet. At one point in the episode the JAG refers to Data as a "toaster." I thought that was hilarious [Big Grin]

--j_k
 
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
 
"I also wonder how tied they're going to be to their Constitution now. Clearly, Roslin is taking control. Will they hold an election to sustain this or will the results of the last election color them to simply let Roslin rule without Constitutional restraints?"

I asked Jamie the same question. We figured a scenario like this would follow.


Reporter: "Madam President, how can you justify taking office without a valid election."
Roslynn: "New Caprica."
Reporter: "Good point. Carry on."
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
Well, I saw it now too.

Damn, they blew up Pegasus.

Also: In the preview for the next episode, did they just show Geata about to be executed? Noooooo!

Still. Wow. I don't think I've seen a better CGI battle... ever. That tops Star Wars Episode 3. Maybe not showing as much, but the CG was at least as good, if not better, and the sequence itself held so much more emotion, and was just so...

Galactica falling through the atmosphere and then jumping away right in time. Nothing tops that. At least, nothing I've seen so far.

So... Mrs. Tye is dead. Um... none of the other major characters died this episode. But the Pegasus is fracking gone.

And... it looks like revenge is on the menu for next week! Joy...
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Sorry if this winds up double-posting, but for some reason, my computer's going insane.

That was BRILLIANT. I was desperately clutching a pillow for the whole show - it was that intense.

I'm glad Lee doesn't suck quite so much anymore and I was shocked about Casey and pleased by Kara's reaction and also glad Kara insisted on Anders dropping her so that she could rescue Casey and the interatmosphere launch of the Vipers... and... and... there was so much! Such a well-paced and intense episode!

But let us not forget the most important development of tonight: Adama shaved the 'stache! [Big Grin]
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Okay, I give up. I can't wait till tomorrow, i'm getting the bit torrent of this one.

HA! Told you Kasey was human! [Taunt]
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Of course I realize that doesn't really prove any of my theory above, but.............
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
Nathan and I felt like the show went much, much faster... we were surprised to be at the midpoint of the show when we were, we didn't think we'd been watching that long.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Actually it would make sense that they kidnapped a kid instead of actually creating a hybrid or even an immature clone. It would have been too risky to assume that she would not kill the child.
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
Yeah, plus if they could just make hybrid kids Hera wouldn't have been so important to the Cylons. I'm interested to see what becomes of the hybrid kid though, will it have some freakish powers like on the 4400 first and second seasons (haven't seen the rest so don't know what happened)????
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
I wouldn't think so. It doesn't look like the show is really moving in that kind of direction. However, I would bet that she will not be able to download, thus making her completely mortal and more human than cylon.
 
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Telperion the Silver:
***spoilers***

Did he just kill her??? [Frown]

No. She killed herself. I think she knew what was in the drink. But she needed to die.
 
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ReddwarfVII:
I wouldn't think so. It doesn't look like the show is really moving in that kind of direction. However, I would bet that she will not be able to download, thus making her completely mortal and more human than cylon.

If she could download, Diana would have set off the nuke.
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
What model would she download into? There isn't one for her yet, but maybe they will create one now and see if she is capable of it???
 
Posted by Miro (Member # 1178) on :
 
That would be a pretty risky experiment.
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
Here's another question -- if she downloaded, how old would she be, mentally and physically? For some reason I'm kind of expecting her to grow up quick and turn up again, as there's only so much you can do with a toddler.

* * *

You know, I found it intersting that D'Anna went to the Oracle's place to set off the bomb (or, that's what it looked like to me). At first I thought she was looking just for the baby but in the podcast RDM says she's going for the nuke and then hears the kid.

It doesn't make sense, because she seemed to be searching for something and I'd think she wouldn't misplace a nuclear bomb.

--j_k
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
the battle in the end while yes it was a victory, congratuations they one uped the cylons again.

But it gnaws at me they lost theyre ONLY "Heavy cruiser" Battlestar they nolonger have the ability to go toe to toe with the Cylons, yes I can see that this is the only way the battle could have ended with the survival of the human race and now on hte bright side the Galactica is more then fully staffed.

But the starteguc loss of a Battlestar unfortunately I do not think they'll fully recover from it wouldve have been easily an acceptable loss of an asset if the 12 COlonies sitll existed but they cannot replace a battle star.

Maybe they'll find an alien wrech soemwhere and fix it.
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
Yeah, they gotta get more battleships if their gonna start going head-to-head with the basestars again. I doubt the cylons are gonna go after them with the fury they did at the beginning of the show. Seems to me like the occupation taught them a lesson about humans' abilities to survive and at what cost.
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
Well, the situation seems to be something like this:

Baltar has basically caused the death of at least 20% of the free humans thanks to his nuke and this whole New Caprica disaster.

They have lost the Pegasus, yeah, the only thing allowing them to really go head to head with the Cylons. As Blayne said, their battle power is severely diminished. It seemed rather essential, but it was still an incredibly painful loss.

Now, though, staffing is going to go well. The Pegasus' fighters are with the fleet, and so are now joined with the fighters that the Galactica had. Sure, with the loss of the Pegasus, they can't make any more (unless they make another Blackbird! That'd be nice... I loved that ship.) But for now at leasat, I won't be sweating about their number of fighters.

They may have so many they'll need to renovate the museum hanger to hold them all, I'd imagine.

Now... what to do about head officers? Wasn't Carl Agathon the at least temporary XO? Will he be demoted? What about (the now former) Commander Adama? (as opposed to his dad, Admiral Adama.) And his wife, the XO Dualla Adama?

I have a strange feeling Tye won't live through this season. He's totally broken. That ending scene almost made me cry, you know?

As B24N said, though, the Cylons will probably not attack them again with the intensity they have in the past. Before New Caprica they'd slowed down their attacks thanks to the whole Ressurection Ship + 2 Basestar destruction. Now thye've lost I think three more Basestars, and had the whole trouble of New Caprica. In addition, we had Boomer and Caprica 6 causing the Cylons to stop trying to totally annihilate the remnants of humanity. We'll see how long that lasts, but at least for now things are going to be a bit less intense.

And in addition... the Cylons have Hera. We'll see what happens next.

It's nice to see, though, that Baltar has ended up with the Cylons finally. He's not any more true to the original Baltar, but is in fact far more believable now. He won't be as that old Baltar was, but he's still the archvillian, it seems. I want to see what happens to the poor guy next! (Wow, I still pity him... I guess that means I liked him.)
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
The thing that really gets me is that the Oracle was right! This means something really profound is going on.
This is another piece of evidence that there are other forces at work here besides chance.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Well I missed the very beginning and the ending but thanks to the glory that is youTube I just finised. WOW. I totally cried at the end.

A great victory and Humanity is free once more (granted with an even more reduced population, but maybe that will offset the huge amount of material that was destroyed/left behind) but Starbuck and Tigh are shattered. I have a bad feeling about Tigh surviving as well. It's a good thing Starbuck started off with such strength and willpower because over the past couple years so much crazy crap has happened to her it must have diminished her in some way. That scene at the end when she's practically twitching and Tigh walking away in despair was gut wrentching.

But I'm glad they brought back that eerily familiar Celtic song from way back in First Season. For me that song is the essence of Battlestar Galactica... melancoly but also joyful. The spirit of Humanity and our survival in the face of death...and even if we do perish from the Universe our existance was worth it.

JTK, I think Ron was mistaken in his podcast. #3 was totally at the Oracle's tent looking for Hera on her way to the nuke. You have to remember when he does his podcasts he hasn't looked at that episode for months.

As for the critical ships, ie the Tillium refinery and the domed bio-ship, I was happy to see that both had survived. The Tillium ship was at the shipyard and the bio-ship was in the last shot behind Colonial One.

The loss of Pegasus is a problem though. Pegasus was the last remnant of the highest technology the 12 Colonies ever produced...a level the surviving Colonials will probably not reach again for decades if not centuries. That and all the supplies, data, and inboard factories that went with them. Pegasus was much more valuable than Galactica. Ron and company threw me for a loop when Pegasus wasn't destoryed right away, like in the original series. But I was also very happy with the trick and how they kept Peggy. But once again they tricked me...got me assuming it would be around for alot longer.

Gods I love this show.

Oh yeah, the other thing I LOVED was when Galactica was falling and then jumped and all the air rushed in to fill the void... AWESOME special effects!!!

[ October 23, 2006, 06:29 AM: Message edited by: Telperion the Silver ]
 
Posted by Marlozhan (Member # 2422) on :
 
I think a good fist-fight between Starbuck and Tigh might help them feel a little better.

On a serious note, that episode was awesome. I never cease to be amazed how this show still surprises me after I thought I had guessed all possible outcomes.

And the loss of the Pegasus was painful (though it ramming those basestars made me feel a little better). This show really makes you feel the pain that the characters are experiencing. No pain = no gain in good television.
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
Yeah BSG is by far the best scifi drama I have ever seen and quite possibly the most awarded to date!
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
Fracking. Awesome. Episode.

'Nuff said.
 
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
Sharon is still totally a time bomb. When she finds out that her baby is alive and that her father figure lied to her about it, she's going to go utterly berserk. And there's no way she'll ever believe that Helo didn't know about it. I can't imagine anything much more dangerous than Sharon after she learns the truth.
 
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
What Cylon Model Are You?

Apparently, I'm a Leoben. <sigh>
 
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
 
I' a Boomer model. The ultimate sleeper agent.
 
Posted by Marlozhan (Member # 2422) on :
 
I'm a Boomer model also. That means I'm beautiful [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
I'm a Boomer too! How odd!
Anyone ever see BubbleGun Crisis or AD Police? [Wink]
 
Posted by PUNJABEE (Member # 7359) on :
 
Don't know if anyone mentioned it already, but Adama's pop-in/pop-out move with Galactica was probably the coolest Sci-Fi maneuver I have ever seen, including the Daedalus Maneuver in Robotech.
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
Agreed.

As the creator said, this ship can take a nuke and be relatively okay. It could, then, logically do this whole falling through the atmosphere maneuver too.

Don't you love it when the logic of the situations make things even cooler, and they even make sense?
 
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
I'm a boomer model. I'm soooo hot.
 
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
 
I'm not reading the thread because I haven't finished Season 2 on DVD yet. I've been recording S3 as it's broadcasting... except I managed to miss it all weekend long this just past weekend. Any chance that someone's got it on Tivo or a tape and would be willing to make me a copy? I'd be happy to provide media (or money to purchase media) and shipping cost!!
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
<removed now that she got it>

Right click on the Battlestar.Galactica link and click save to desktop. I'll leave it up there for a week or so. It's about 400 Mbs in AVI format. You'll need a special program if you want to burn it to DVD probably and it's not top quality, but it's about the same as you'd get from TiVo. Enjoy [Smile]

[ October 25, 2006, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: Alcon ]
 
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
 
Thank you thank you thank you!!! And I'm perfectly happy to watch it on the computer just so long as I can watch!!!
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
Intro for "The Office" redone with BSG Intro music.
 
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
Was that the *real* intro to The Office? Because it fit the music *perfectly*
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
Removed.

--j_k

[ October 25, 2006, 12:04 PM: Message edited by: James Tiberius Kirk ]
 
Posted by Zeugma (Member # 6636) on :
 
Uh, since when is it okay to share copyrighted material on Hatrack? You can buy a legal copy for $1.99 on iTunes, and support the show's creators in the process.
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
I'll remove it.

--j_k
 
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
What'd I miss?
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
He could show you but then he'd have to remove you.
 
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
Wah.
 
Posted by Kasie H (Member # 2120) on :
 
WooHoo, I'm a Number 6 model - "Passionate, ruthless, unshakeable in your faith and impossible to ignore."
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mackillian:
Intro for "The Office" redone with BSG Intro music.

Never seen an episode of "The Office" but hear its pretty funny that video clip was pretty cool.

Can't wait till Friday to get my BSG fix!

** edited cause I found the song I was looking for **
 
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
It's NOT on the amazon soundtracks?

I hope you're wrong becuase I just ordered them today!
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
No, it is on the Season 2 soundtrack I just checked...sorry I edited my post so that people didn't get confused.
 
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
huzzah!
 
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
Who does the BSG theme? Is that Dead Can Dance?
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
Richard Gibbs - The one you hear every show and I think he also did the original that was int eh miniseries and the first season US version. The one that we all hear now was originally the opening music for the UK version. Unless the ones that I download on iTunes are completely different than the ones that you all watch on SciFi every Friday????
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
So what? Nothing to talk about this episode? The silence on the board is deafening. I have not seen it yet and I am downloading it now from iTunes.
 
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
I thought it was great, largely because of how Roslin handled the situation. I didn't see it coming, but it was pure grace in every sense of the word.

I do wonder if Zarek is going to get his promised position after all.

I don't know what to make of the previews. I'm really hoping we get some understanding of what is driving the cylons. I still don't really understand why they invaded New Caprica. And a pursuit of Earth is just as incomprehensible to me.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
I am just surprised that no one has commented on this ep yet.
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
It was a good episode but they made it on the cheap. I wanted a decent space fight of some kind. I want to see Starbuck and Lee slough off the rust...

Adama's comment... Keep jumping... was classic. Things look more crowded then ever. It would be nice if they could build a few decent sized transports.

The old series had a number of encounters with human settlements, I suppose they will get to that point evenually but with the Cylon's trailing behind they will be the bearers of bad news.

The series could bog down baddly if we have many more episodes where the focus is all like this. However one is good. I do hope the fleets problems begin to yeild to solid solutions developed by the best in mankind.

A good series understands that you have to keep bringing it back from the edge and stay on the core story line, it was a long way that they went out so it was a long way back, I just hope we are back now.
 
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
 
I'm sticking with the series for no other reason than to see Roslin and Adama hold hands. Those two belong together. I want them to grow old and raise a civilization together.

[ October 28, 2006, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I thought Tom Zarek was better than that. I was extremely disappointed in his decision to create the "secret jury." I would like him to maintain a position within the Fleet's government, but with his willingness to, as Roslin put it, take away Colonial rights on a whim doesn't leave me much hope.

Also, I'm really really really glad Gaeta didn't kick the bucket - or dog dish, as it were. [Smile]

And Blanders is gone! YAY! Let the rejoicing commence!
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
Yeah it was a really good episode but I agree they need more space battles, even though they don't have much to work with. It'd be nice to add a new warship to the fleet int he couple episodes but I don't really see it happening.
 
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
Last week's episode had really great battle scenes with ships, etc. They had to save some money somewhere. [Smile]
 
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
 
"I don't know what to make of the previews. I'm really hoping we get some understanding of what is driving the cylons. I still don't really understand why they invaded New Caprica. And a pursuit of Earth is just as incomprehensible to me."

Two things, really.

First, they have consciousness, and in having such, desire freedom. In their complete differences and past history, the cylons figured they would never be able to live hand in hand with humans. So they attacked and established dominance.

Then there was the reformation of their ideals, put into place by Boomer and Caprica 6 with the idea that human and cylon could live together in the hopes that through their mercy they would see the light, and believe in the one true Cylon God. However, there was too much history between both groups, and we saw how that went.


Second, they obviously have the upper hand, so what they are currently doing is protective of future cylons. Should they find Earth, word will be passed down through generations of the big bad cylons, and eventually, humans would go looking for them.

Least, this is how I interpreted things.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Guys, guys, guys, good drama isn't about big bad space battles all of the time. It's about pathos, humanity at it's best and worst. This episode was about that. There are major after effects from the occupation that will affect how the fleet and the characters react to future events. I love the dichotomy of Zarek ordering the secret jury and Roslin giving a full pardon to everyone else. I can completely understand both of their positions.

I hope that they find some new source of supplies, but I hope that they don't start running into human colonies. This is great because they are not doing what we expect them to do.

Sounds like from the previews that the race is on to find earth. It would be interesting to see the cylons make it there first and get blown away...or something.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
One thing to think about, Roslin just issued a full pardon to everyone. That includes Baltar.
 
Posted by Miro (Member # 1178) on :
 
Nope. Her specific words were, "Every human in the fleet." Baltar is no longer in the fleet.

I was pretty excited about Roslin's announcement. Not only did she pardon everyone, she set up Truth and Reconciliation hearings, like in South Africa after apartheid. An amazing (and unique) event in history, as far as I'm aware.
 
Posted by Kasie H (Member # 2120) on :
 
I echo Irami, except I feel that way about Lee and Kara. Or Apollo and Starbuck. Not sure which of the personalities match best, but I love the two of them.

Except Lee does have to keep jumping. A LOT.
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
Well, I did love the episode. We don't NEED another space battle for the next few episodes, last week was enough. I'm... full. For that WAS the best space battle I've ever seen. Or at least the most emotional.

I love how beaten up the Galactica looks. It looks like crap, really. Did I actually see holes in the hull? Eesh, the ship is really damaged. It'll take awhile to fix. The CIC is still being repaired. Everything's damaged.

They've lost ships, and so more people are now living in the Galactica. The place FEELS so much more crowded, which makes sense. That alone is enough to create a new feeling.

Things have gone back finally, but not the way normal shows do: Nothing is the same, it feels different, it will never be anything BUT different. As one episode name says, "You can't go home again."

I really want to see what happens to Baltar now. It wasn't as simple as I thought it'd be before watching this episode. The previews give a good look of what's ahead for the guy.

Did somebody say "Cylon Detector" again? lol

This episode was as intense dramatically as the previous episode was intense in action. It matched the previous episode in energy... only now the energy was personal, not battle energy.

The "Second Exodus" is what it's being called now. This is an interesting phrasing, and something I expect will continue on, calling this the Exodus. This is the sort of thing legends are made of! lol And I hope they use it the way they seem to be using it.

I don't know how things will happen next. Things are going to be tense for awhile. A really LONG while.

Also, I don't feel they strayed from their main premise so much as shifted the way real life shifts. They aren't doing what normal shows do... they're going with the lives of these people, wherever they go towards. And so, things don't go back. They never will. Galactica is crowded with civilians now, they have more fighters now than they ever had before, they've lost Pegasus, Kara is brokenish, Tye is broken and, I think, is not gonna survive the season. Gaeta won't be welcomed back as well as we all hope. Tyrol is much more strained, and is married to... gah, I forget her name. they have a son, that's gonna change things. Dualla and Lee are MARRIED and are gonna stay that way, it seems.

The fleet has been damaged greatly, resources have been terribly depleted.

Speaking of which, they're back to listing the number of people again. Which I think is totally awesome, that now that they're back on the ship, the opening has changed back. Though it's still different.

41,315 or so... My God they've lost a lot of people. And yet they've lost even more ships, so they're much more crowded. Things aren't going well, but they're better than they used to be. Tension will continue. Things aren't going to get a whole lot better anytime soon.

In comparison, they were practically doing WELL back in the first season, and even super during the second, when they had Pegasus with its onboard factories.

Now... things are darker than ever. They need to find Earth soon, as I don't think they can sustain such a search for all THAT much longer at this rate. Something new and unexpected needs to happen, but I don't know what it is. [Big Grin]
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by 0Megabyte:
Now... things are darker than ever. They need to find Earth soon, as I don't think they can sustain such a search for all THAT much longer at this rate. Something new and unexpected needs to happen, but I don't know what it is. [Big Grin]

A new Battleship! [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
They are far away from Colonial Space now way off the deep end, its like sailing in a Battlecruiser in 19th century with only 10% of the world explored.


To add additional ships would require that they stumble upon some ancient archaic arms depot somewhere but as the finding of Kobal has shown it is doubtful tht any Kobolian, or COlonial installations exist anywhere for them to resupply and find a new Battlestar.

Earth or some new alien race is their only hope now.

However I highly doubt that they will find any alien races, this show has been focused completely and utterly on humanity and human interactions, even the Cylons appear human, an alien race probly would be a distraction.

So it is Earth then that they need to find.

And pls let it be year 2100+!!!
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
Some possible sources of new ship would be

A: a human settlement ship, lost in space, a 'haunted ship' episode, Their is a description in the Ben Bova book Saturn of a ship several kilometers long and cylindrical that spins to create artificial gravity. The dozen square miles of interior surface could be wildly overgrown with some primitive people, the fleet could move in to install an FTL, it would be awsome...

B: a captured Base Star, perhaps a wounded one...

C: an alien civilization ship...

D: a stop to hollow out a few nickle iron asteroids and install FTL drives (Incidentally providing repair material for the Galactica)

E: a Colonial exploration ship, that broke down for some reason...

Also I would like to point out that If the Cylon's reach Earth first, with Baltar to guide them they are likely to play a more subtle game, passing for human and bringing the gift of high tech, hacking the Internet and subsuming the information therein they would come to the US or the UK or Japan where they would judge the technology to be the most advanced. They would find monotheistic humans that would be grateful for a solution to problems of energy and pollution. Countries that might welcome robotic foot soldiers to replace human troops on foreign soil. In a few generations the Cylon plan could lead to the Cylon's being in control of the hearts and mind of all the middle east, as the US outsources the war, and in that time they might begin a cyborg style take over of the west, coaxing people into an ever more intimate dependence on machines.

Anyway the Galactica, filled with poor desperate backward Pagans might find itself less then welcome...

[ October 29, 2006, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: General Sax ]
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
They could come in the current time but let it be to the Stargate SG1 universe! Where Earth has FTL and ships but they are secret, let Kobol be a lost Ancient outpost!

[ October 29, 2006, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: General Sax ]
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
It does suggest a possibility, the Fleet parks in orbit above Earth, they make contact with the US (since we, by chance, use the exact same military protocols, weapons and acronyms) and in exchange for defending the planet against the Cylon's, upgrading our military technology, and jump-starting our space program we grant them shore leave, visa's and integrate them into our country. We beef up the fleet, rearm the Galactica and start on our own Battlestar while using the combined leverage of the Galactica for a stick and Colonial tech as a carrot to bring NATO on board.

With big brother working for us we impose a de facto hegemony (go your own way up to this point, then we stop you) and we meet the Cylon's with fortress Earth...

It would be especially fun to end our dependence on fossil fuels and watch the middle east shrivel up and die from anemia.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
300 MAC cannons!
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
Of course we could teach them a thing or two, for example we could show them how to make ordinance 'drop safe' and how to spot that handy fiber optic linkage in the forearm instead of a blood test.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Miro:
Nope. Her specific words were, "Every human in the fleet." Baltar is no longer in the fleet.

Good catch. I missed that.

You know, I am really having a hard time buying into the idea that BSG is going to show up in Earth's orbit and it be in the same techological stage that we are in right now. That just does not seem to fit within the mythology of this version of Galatica. I'm just not seeing it. I do agree with Megabyte, they need to SOMEWHERE that will give them a chance to do some major resupply. I can't see how the fleet is going to last for years and stay ahead of the cylons in their current state. Actually, the more I think about it, the more I like the idea of them running into another human colony or even another fleet. Say a BSG situation, but had the advantage that the cylons were not aware of them. As for another human colony, you can't tell me that this is the first time in their history that a group of people have went looking for earth. What about pre-cylon wars era space exploration. They've the tech to travel in space for awhile now, even if FTL itself is a new discovery. Who's to say that some group of explorers didn't leave the colonies some time ago to explore and maybe find earth?
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
They could set it up that the BSG survivers reach earth many hundreds of years ago our time??? Say during the day of the greek gods and that's how the idea of hte greek and roman gods come into existence??? Doubtful they'll go that track but a thought I had.
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
We know that the constilations as seen from Earth have their classic names so we can infer that the last contact dates to that era, it seems that the assumption is that things are contemporary in the current show. There is no Long Long ago in the story as told in this version. It is just impossible to integrate the core story into an arrival at Earth. It becomes a new thing all together.
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
Then again, that is what they have done a couple of times already. [Big Grin]


A new thing indeed.
 
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
"You wouldn't like her when she's angry". That just tickled me.
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
Yes. That was great fun.

I agree with Kwea. This show keeps becoming a new thing altogether. This whole Exodus thing has changed everything. And the feel of the show has also changed. In a good way!

A new thing indeed. This is true 21st century television. I hope even better stuff comes in the future.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
quote:
Things look more crowded then ever. It would be nice if they could build a few decent sized transports.
As stated before, it's so much more crowded because they lost so many ships, either destroyed in the Cloud 9 blast or on New Caprica. And they can't build any more large ships because they don't have the resources nor the factories to do so. They might be able to construct a shipyard and use asteroids but that would take a LONG time... and time means the loss of food/water/air/fuel. They would need to find a place to base with all those available, something like New Caprica. They can't afford to wait around while the Cylons are on the hunt.

I really liked this episode. It answered some important questions about how Roslin gets back into power and the scars left by the trama of New Caprica. And I like to see that the characters are not flat but round...as mentioned before...that's just life. I know that I've changed from the experiances in my life.

I'm also thrilled to see Baltar in the Cylon world at last! I liked the habitable area he was in, so different from the bio-mechanical core of a Basestar. Hope they show the command center soon. There was also a Resurrection-class ship in that little Cylon fleet...could this be their main fleet? Only seven capital ships, seems pretty small. I imagine their entire fleet is spread out all over the quadrant at this point looking for resources and the RTF. And that's assuming they really have abandoned the Twelve Colonies AND their Homeworld.

Did you guys hear all that liquid sound, like blood pumping, in Baltar's room? [Cool]

[ October 31, 2006, 06:02 AM: Message edited by: Telperion the Silver ]
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Oooooo... just under a day till the new episode!
The path to Earth is near!!
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
In the preview, did all you catch Baltar asking head six if he was a cylon? Funny, but is it a joke? Hmmmmmmmm....
 
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
I caught that, but I'm sure it's just a head game they are playing with him. Or a head game the writers are playing with us. I can't think of a plausible reason why Baltar would be a cylon and lots of reasons why he, of all the characters in the show, couldn't possibly be.

Besides, he's way, way more interesting a character as a human.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
I agreed, but it wouldn't be the first time that they have thrown us a curve ball.
 
Posted by Friday (Member # 8998) on :
 
What I want to know is what happened to Head Baltar. I personaly really enoyed it when he first appeared to Caprica Six near the end of season 2, and while I recognize that he is a device that is likely best used sparingly, I hope the writers can find an interesting way to bring him back this season.
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
Agreed, Friday.

It's amazing how these actors do it:

Not just play one complex character, but multiple complex characters who all have, essentially, the same name and look. Baltar's just... Baltar. But Head Baltar is so different, yet recognizable.

Six... the many faces of Six. lol, there are so very many. Adn each one is distinct in my head. "Head Six." "Generic Season One Caprica Six" "Caprica" "Gina" and "Generic Sixes"

And with Boomer too: "Boomer" (original one) "Sharon Agathon" and the random other "Threes"

I applaud these actors and their skills. They are actually pretty darn good at this. It must be very difficult, making them all distinct. But not too distinct, and even the other characters have trouble with it, which is good.

Now I'm just waiting the minutes for the new episode.
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
I liked it a lot. I really liked the dual ending, and the different paths each person takes. It just reaffirms my opinion that this is the best hour of television on any network.
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
I predicted the derelict base-star, of course I made it a range of possibilities but still, a good prediction...

Nice to see the abs of Lee again, if only I could get back in shape so fast...

We can assume that an ancient artifact that looks like it was salvaged from a Star Trek episode (sterilize... sterilize...) was not deliberately meant to kill off Cylons. So how does it accidentally do so? Is it (cliché alert) transmitting a computer virus? It seems like the Cylon's would have the edge in that area.

What is Baltar thinking, surely he has to know he was taking images as he went, but what about the ability to crush a 6's neck with one hand while angered... Cylon strength?

I expected Tie to be finished, it is clear the man used himself up. He knows it, so does everyone else. Time to make Lee the XO, how is he not already?

Another great show but honestly I cannot wait for this season on DVD so I can do this in an all day concentrated format, the delays are murder...
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
One thing that really must be tough for these actresses is all the skin scenes, three years in top physical condition is murder, and they are looking at it for years to come, I hope they have a few months down time to vegge out.

I am thinking of Sharon and her naked tai-chi, but then who isn't...

[ November 04, 2006, 12:18 AM: Message edited by: General Sax ]
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
*peers at the Hybrid* Karan? Karan, is that you?

--j_k
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
what was up with that hybrid?
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
Okay:

Yes. Best hour in television. I refuse to miss this show for a reason.

Kara seems to be bouncing back. She's injured mentally still, I'm sure, but it seems as though she needed the Admiral kicking her ass to wake her up. Yet at the same time... Tye isn't gonna live through this season. He's broken, and I can't really see him fixing himself at this rate. He might, maybe, POSSIBLY. But the chance is too slight for me to hope for him. I want to cry, actually, seeing him like this.

I love seeing Karl Agathon as the XO of the Galactica. I find it tickling that he's gone so far. He seems to be doing an okay job, though he hasn't had the sheer number of crises in command yet. He definitely needs an episode focusing more on him and his new position. It seems the next episode will at least have some struggle, as I doubt he'll want to eliminate all the Cylons. (His wife being one, after all.)

I finally have a real name for Sharon Agathon! Just today I set up a naming system for the #3's. The old Sharon Valerii is called Boomer, the new one just Sharon, and the other ones just #3's.

However, calling her Athena (a name from the original BSG, if I remember right! ha ha ha!) is a great way to deal with it. I clapped, and cheered when I heard that suggestion. I knew that would be the one chosen.

She's Athena, as the old one was Boomer! Yay!
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I am so SO happy Lee's hot again. [Wink] Makes the waiter at sushi tonight seem... tame in comparison.

I personally thought the episode tonight was a bit confusing, especially on Gaius' behalf. Thankfully, I'm currently watching the second half and reconsidering.

This show is genius.
 
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
 
I keep wondering how many different ways Gaius can betray humanity. He seems so good at it. It's amazing that he's so despicable, and still I feel bad for him. I really want him to redeem himself, although at this point, I don't think he can ever really make up for what he's done.

Lots of hotness in this episode. I can't believe my roommates aren't interested in this show for the sexy bodies alone.
 
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
 
"What about the other Five?"
"We don't talk about them."

I love a good mystery.

Have I mentioned how much I hate Kat? Does she do anything but sit around antagonizing Kara?

Gaius with his hand up so he wasn't looking at naked Tai-Chi Three, wonderful. Ice Queen Six being snippy with him all episode then not busting him when she saw the pics, intriguing.

I did miss something though. Are the hybrids people plugged into the ship? Or is that a Cylon plugged into the ship? I didn't quite get what I was looking at there.
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
Indeed Hybrid implies a crossbreed of some kind, but a what with a what? Jumping seems to make her feel pretty good though...

Kat is a shallow character, does anybody else remember that Cassiopeia is the name of Starbuck's girlfriend from the first series? Cassie is short for Cassiopeia I will bet, or it is her mothers name, I love that the writers loved the original series so much to include such little details in the new story.

Can anyone else imagine Kara starting a relationship with another woman? Cassie's mom perhaps? I think it would be a good start for her to tell the woman exactly what was done to her and why it was plausible.

Will they salvage the Base Star for technology and space? Will the probe be the basis for the weapon that can kill all Cylons?
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
I wonder if Athena is going to catch whatever illness the other Cylons caught in that nebula (if the illness isn't from whatever that probe was).

Adama telling Starbuck that she once was like a daughter to him had to be a blow to her—she's always looked up to the man.

Tigh might be a lost cause. [Frown] And why hasn't he gotten an eyepatch or something yet?

And Lee is back. mmmmmlee. Huzzah! It also looks like, yet again, he's got a stick up his ass over Kara.

Gaeta's estimation of Baltar was dead-on accuate. The one constant for that man is his drive to keep his own ass alive. Time and time again, Baltar has proven that to be correct.

I also love how BasestarSix keeps giving Baltar the look of "What the frak is wrong with you?" whenever he pops out of a daydream with HeadSix.
 
Posted by PUNJABEE (Member # 7359) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by General Sax:
Indeed Hybrid implies a crossbreed of some kind, but a what with a what? Jumping seems to make her feel pretty good though...


I think by 'hybrid', they mean that the consciousness is contained in an organic body like we saw, but the entire being is the entire BaseStar. Does that make sense?

Thats why the 'person' that was in the bathtub was connected to all those cables - the ship is her, and she is the ship. A hybrid of organic and original Cylon tech (metalheads).

My theory on it, anyway.
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
So is the Hybrid one of the types we have seen or one of the other five? She did not look familiar.
 
Posted by PUNJABEE (Member # 7359) on :
 
I'm thinking the Hybrid is a completely different Cylon all together. Definitely not one of the 7 we've seen so far and I doubt that she is one of the final 5 that are yet to be revealed.

The way Cap6 made it sound, the 5 are of almost legendary status. With that I doubt they'd treat one of them as a ship. I could be wrong though, who knows.


Does anyone know if BSG is going to do one of those idiotic 'hiatus' things like Lost and Smallville?
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
I have to agree with PUNJABEE on the Hybrid issue. I think they are completely seperate from the 12 models that are in play with the humans. I think the other seven never talk about the last 5 because they are still doing recon among the humans??? Could be wrong though, maybe we'll find out more in the next couple episodes. I'm definitely interested to see what happens with Athena and the Sick Basestar???
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
Just like the Centurions are. [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Friday (Member # 8998) on :
 
So does the artifact on the derelict baseship mean that the Earth humans knew about the cylons? I was under the impression that the cylons were created in by the 12 colonies, but if that is so, how would the 13th colony know to leave some sort of virus against the cylons to keep them from finding Earth?
 
Posted by PUNJABEE (Member # 7359) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Friday:
So does the artifact on the derelict baseship mean that the Earth humans knew about the cylons? I was under the impression that the cylons were created in by the 12 colonies, but if that is so, how would the 13th colony know to leave some sort of virus against the cylons to keep them from finding Earth?

I'm wondering the exact same thing. I mean, in the BSG universe, humanity DID originate from Earth, correct? Earth being the 'original' colony, then somewhere in time people ended up on Kobol (much like Harmony in the OSC Homecoming series) and from there, colonized 12 more planets.

Or maybe they're going to throw some sort of time-travel loop at us. Man that artifact looks really old, it has to be from the original voyage.

COME ON NEXT FRIDAY!!
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
Friday, are you familiar with the Heinlein novel by that name, I am curious if you are a fan...

We have a solid record of hominids on Earth so we have a fair certainty that we are from here. There is a time loop though, the Cylons insist that time is a cycle and they must have some evidence. Also with instantaneous FTL it seems likely that time travel is possible.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Maybe its the Halo universe and they'll arrive in time ot save HUmanity from the Covenant.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Well if we use our archeology as proof that the humans in BSG originated here then:

Earth 10,000 BC Atlantis... massive cataclysm forces them to send a colony ship, a generational one away to save their civilization.

They leave and the Atlantians are destroyed the remnants of HUmanity forget theyre history and rebuild one step at a time HUman civilization.

Meanwhile the ship reaches Kobol where they make theyre home for a short time here theyre are 13 Starship captains who fight with each other and as a result they split up, 12 go forwards to found the 12 colonies but disaster strikes theyre shiups crash and they lose massive amounts of data, they rebuild and spend generations rebuilding.

The 13th goes back to Earth and sees Humanity slowly rebuilding, canabalizes his ship and live amoung humanity as normal.

Back in the 12 Colonies, with Human history proceeding as it always does reach a scientific level far enough thats the 12 colonies begin rudimentary communication with each other, speeding up scienticif advance until they rediscover FTL travel on Caprica.

Caprica being the most advanced and wealthiest planet begins to assume a eladership role, leading to a number of wars between the Caprica led bloc and the Gemini led block, after centuries of quarreling they in a drastic turn of events formulate the Presidency of the 12 Colonies and the people confirm the new constitution.

a Golden age begins leading to new heights of confort an d technology leading to Humans crafting a race of sentient robots to act as slaves.

They rebel beginning the first CYlon war and after a bitter struggle make peace.

The Cylons get rvenge and "cleanse" the sinful humans with nuclear fire forcing the Galactica and its civilian fleet and the Pegasus with theirs (until they canalbalize it) to flea in search for the "mythical" 13th colony which they have forgotten was the original homeworld.

The quarrels between the 12 colonies with each oteher would have slowed they're technological growth to just be slightely ahead of Earth's reconstruction so that when they reach us we'll only be slightly behind, possibly not have FTL or if we do a primitive version of it but we'ld have fortified our Solar system.


They'res another possibility if the ship sent by Atlantis DID NOT have FTL drive and spent a few hundred years travelling then its possible we may be more advanced, or slightely more advanced or slightely behind depending on how much of a modifer the population of the Twelve Colonies is.

Eh eh?
 
Posted by Friday (Member # 8998) on :
 
quote:
Friday, are you familiar with the Heinlein novel by that name, I am curious if you are a fan...
I haven't heard of it, though I have been meaning to check out some of Heinlein's work, would that be a good starting point?

Regarding the show, do we know how long they intend for the show to run? Have they said if there will be a fourth season? To me it seems like the writers have invested a lot in the finding of Earth, and it seems like the Colonials could reasonably end up finding Earth this season. If so, what happens then?

Also, while we don't know much about the illness on the derelict basestar, from the looks of things the disease seems like it could be a very effective weapon against the Cylons. It incapacitates raiders and centurions, effectively destroying the Cylon's military capabilities. I think one of the big issues in coming episodes may be whether or not Adama chooses to use the illness as a form of biological warfare. Likely Helo will have pretty strong objections to this, given that he's married to a Cylon (who may or may not have become infected during the last scene of this past episode), leading to even more tension in the CIC.
 
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Friday:
So does the artifact on the derelict baseship mean that the Earth humans knew about the cylons? I was under the impression that the cylons were created in by the 12 colonies, but if that is so, how would the 13th colony know to leave some sort of virus against the cylons to keep them from finding Earth?

And the timing is wrong anyway. The 13th colony left long ago. The Cylons were created in Bill Adama's lifetime (or so the advance info about the prequel "Caprica" seems to imply).
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
I think it will probably be more of a plague or biological weakness than an intentional biological weapon left behind against Cylons.

That is not to say that the disease won't be used as a weapon, of course. [Smile]


I was looking for markings on it, expecting it to say Voyager on it somewhere. [Big Grin]
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Kwea:
I was looking for markings on it, expecting it to say Voyager on it somewhere. [Big Grin]

That would have be too funny. I like Blayne's rundown, but I don't think that if Earth is going to be the original home of mankind (like I have always said) that the original colony ship is going to be from our past. Think about where we are at in history right now. We are only years away from creating AI and in some respects already have it. The cycle of time is a big thing in the scrolls of Pythia (sp?). "All this has happened before and all of this will happen again." Humans fled Earth to Kobol after warring with their creations. Humans fled Kobal after warring with their creations and then finally, humans are fleeing the colonies BACK! to earth after warring with their creations. Each time they have to do exactly what Blayne said. Rebuild. It will take generations for them to reach the same level of technological advancement that they had in the 12 colonies. That's why their are not more advanced than they are, even though they represent thousands of years into our future.

Still, no matter what direction they are taking this show and no matter how our reality conincedes with the show, this still is the best hour of television.

Honestly, I really don't know why you all keep assuming that RM and company are going to have Galatica show up in Earth's orbit and it be 2006. Galatica 1980 was a lame concept then and it would be an even lamer concept now. I really don't think that they would do that. It doesn't make sense and it just wouldn't have impact punch to the head that this show is really good at. I am telling you. No matter when they show in Earth's orbit, it is not going to be the situation that we have thought of.

Also, one other nice thing not to have to wonder about any more. I was wondering if the Cylons had already found Earth. This episode confirmed that one to be a big fat NO!

Okay, one last thing...the final five cylon models..or should we say the original five cylon human models. Those five had a different take on humanity. Their idea was not "kill them all" it was, "If you can't beat them, join them." They were exiled and simply integrating into humanity. Baltar is projecting, just like a cylon. Is he one of the original five? Maybe. And that would be interesting. But I think a much more exciting concept to think about would be that he is a child of one of the original five. Now that would be VERY interesting, don't you think?
 
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
 
What if the 5 Cylons they don't talk about were expelled from the rest of the Cylons, went back to earth to settle, and took over. When the Galactica gets there, it's a whole world of Cylon overlords!

NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
NO ttue original BSG fan ever even awknologes the existence of the season where they found 1980's earth it was the death of BSG then and itll ne the death of BSG now I hope they find earth in like earth 2100+ technology same level tech, ahead, or slightely behind but still past 2006.
 
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
I was a BSG fan back in the 70s, Blayne. Before you were born, I think. And I actually liked Galactica 1980. It was goofy, but fun.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
I am actually quoting a friend of mine who watched the original, I say a bunch of random episodes when I borrowed another friends scifi tapes and I really didnot like the earth episodes, kids able to jump 10 ft in the air or etc.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Blayne, I completely agree with you. It will be interesting to see which concepts are going to be closer to what RM and company create.

However, I do not see them getting to Earth this season. Maybe the next one or after 9 seasons. Who knows? It would be cool to see them reach Earth sooner than later and the story change to the earth having to deal with the Cylon threat as well.
 
Posted by Marlozhan (Member # 2422) on :
 
My question is, why is there a Queer as Folk jewelry collection ad at the bottom of this page? [Confused] Is google trying to tell us something about BSG?
 
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
 
I stopped watching a few weeks ago. I got tired of the excessive titillation and the outrageous glorification of terrorist tactics.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
You call the way they delt with terrorist acts glorification?!
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Alcon:
You call the way they delt with terrorist acts glorification?!

Ron, then why are you posting on this page? This is the page for those that actually watch the show. No diss intended here, but why bother?
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
they never glorified terrorist attacks, they looked at a positive perspective somewhat as comparing it as sending a soldier to his death in a high casualty rate mission or with bobms strapped to his chest are similar, laura rosilend and gaius found the tactics deeply distrubing.
 
Posted by BryanP (Member # 7772) on :
 
Yeah, you're sort of missing the point if you thought they were glorifying the terrorist attacks. And, um, there's been titillation this season?
 
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
 
Excessive titillation is one of the best reasons to watch! Who doesn't like hotties?
 
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
Nekked Sharon model doing Tai Chi?
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I know I love gratuitous shots of Lee... [Wink]
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
quote:
I haven't heard of it, though I have been meaning to check out some of Heinlein's work, would that be a good starting point?
In many ways it is his best novel, and one of the most contemporary. It is a stand alone novel so yes I would recommend it strongly.

So how well do you think we would fair against Cylons today? Apart from our weakness in space I think we could hold our own pretty well. If we armed the Galactica and supplied them we would really give them a fight... I see no reason why we would not be able to have the Fleet land today and start integrating them with NATO...
 
Posted by BryanP (Member # 7772) on :
 
The Cylons would pulverize us.
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
I don't think so, Certainly not with the Galactica up our sleeves.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
I agree. Galactica, in terms of techology, is not that far in advance of us. Add their advances to our current knowledge, I bet we could be churning out Battlestars within a decade and Viper class fighters in an even shorter amount of time.

Of course, they do have Gravity generators on Galatica. That kind of tech would be probably one of the more difficult things to reproduce.
 
Posted by PUNJABEE (Member # 7359) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ReddwarfVII:
I agree. Galactica, in terms of techology, is not that far in advance of us. Add their advances to our current knowledge, I bet we could be churning out Battlestars within a decade and Viper class fighters in an even shorter amount of time.

Of course, they do have Gravity generators on Galatica. That kind of tech would be probably one of the more difficult things to reproduce.

Not to mention FTL travel.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Obviously a FTL drive is small enough to fit in a Raptor. Also apparently the Joint Strike Fighter can almost be used ot fight in space.


The biggest issue to me is EMP and viral infiltration, if we can get "smart" AI's like in Halo then we'll have a fighting chance against electornic infiltration.

Also there's the matter about EMP a nuclear warhead 300 miles up cna produce a EMP wave capable of encompassing the entire US and major population centers of Canada.

Also we're making rpogress in coil guns and rail gun technology in a wee bit we can have stations with MAC cnannons capable of tearinga a hole in a Cyclon Base star a good ways out.

Also they wouldn't be integrated "just" into NATO I think they arriving in Earth would be immediate cause for a formation of a Internatinal Fleet staffed by all the major nations. Given enough time we can get a fleet availiable to fight back.


But here's the thing I am pretty sure it is not a good idea in scifi to touch upon or predict current events its iffy, it can go so wrong too easily so its best for BSG to come to a futuristic Earth where our issues have changed or are solved to the point where we needn't touch on them at all.
 
Posted by Friday (Member # 8998) on :
 
quote:
I bet we could be churning out Battlestars within a decade and Viper class fighters in an even shorter amount of time.
But would we have a decade? I don't think so; the Cylons found New Caprica in a year. Should Galactica find Earth I find it hard to believe that the Cylons, even without the help of some give-away like the nuke on Cloud-9, would take more than a year or two to find us, especialy given the fact that with Baltar's help they found the artifact in the lion nebula first.
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
Ahhhh, a Hegamony maybe?????
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
If we prep every ICBM Russia, China and the USA has and give them super encrypted fail safe systems we may be able to blast away the first dozen or so waves of base stars, buying time is easy, use every rocket we have to lift as much as we can onto the moon and use it as a staging area to construct warships of every class and calliber, buuild thousands of JSF's, Jian-XX's, Migs make them all operatable in space combat arm them with kiloton range nukes, construct ships with MAC cannons, Kentic guns, and focus the efforts of every porogrammer-hacker we can find to actively counter Cylon intrusion.

Take FTL drives out of Rapters if we have to, copy down the math, learn it, and then make our own we should be reaosnably advanced enough to recreate our own based on blueprints and a raptor FTL core.

As long as we keep buying time through every brilliant and detemrined effort we cna hold them off long enough to stand a chance.
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
Still wouldn't have enough time to do all that. Even with Galactica holding down the fort, she might be able to take out the first round if it were more of an expeditionary force than a strike force. But after that we'd be toast?
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
Why would you say that? Put our manpower into Viper and on the Galactica, make subs into transports, give Adama a thousand Nukes and start assembly lines to make rounds for all the guns (a couple months tops)

Retrofit Galactica and other ships to mount our ordinance, Tomahawks and such. Empty all of the fleet of Civilians and militarize every ship they have. I think we could hold them back for long enough to get up to speed.

In the meanwhile get everything ready on the ground to repel invaders, If the Cylons come to the ground without being able to nuke the surface then the fight is on and we have lots more troops and firepower on the ground then the Cylons do.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
Good heavens. Get a life guys. You sound worse than I did with my gamer geek friends back when we were 14 and 15! Seriously, if you can think about this in this much detail you have way too much time on your hands.

To quote Jack Sparrow: "You have got to find yourself a girl, mate." [Razz]
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
It took us a couple minutes. No big loss.
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Alcon:
Good heavens. Get a life guys. You sound worse than I did with my gamer geek friends back when we were 14 and 15! Seriously, if you can think about this in this much detail you have way too much time on your hands.

To quote Jack Sparrow: "You have got to find yourself a girl, mate." [Razz]

[Taunt] on you [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Also it wouldnt cost alot wiother if we do most of our manufacturing in China we can be producing thousands of missiles, transports, and warships pretty quikely.

It will be ONE WEEK TOPS!!!! to design a Cruiser, 2 more to get the infastructure and machine tool designs, 3 more to construct prototypes, 6 to get the frst one build, 6 months later 2 more will roll out from the assembly line.

The more I think of thisd the more I begin to like the concept of the fleet seeing a earth in say the year 2024 or soemthing where China is in both name and actuallity a super power and Russia has recovered. Then Russia, USA, EU and China can fully cooperate as equal partners tow ard of CYlon invasion with the help of teh Colonial Fleet.
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
I do not know about thousands, or about weeks, but given a year I am sure we could mount a hell of a defense. Given the way the Cylons flip flop on stategy I suspect a sound whooping would give us another year.

Like you say, we would all bid the job to get the tech and welcome the refugees just to learn what they know. In WW II America built a troop transport a day. I bet the China, Russia, the United States, the Canada, the Austrailia and one Battlestar from France, Germany and Briton all loaded with thousands of integrated soldiers, and sailors and pilots would join the Galactica. Then it would be time to go find the source of the Cylons.
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
I'm proud to be like a kid again. [Big Grin] This is the best sort of childhood idea.

Hmm. Retrofit of the civilian ships to be at the very least nuclear gunboats. Good idea. Fire off enough nukes and not even a Basestar of... five... could survive.

Take a few Raptor FLTs and Civilian FTLs and figure em out, and then we can start building at the very least essentially boxes with FTL drives. If worst comes to worst, escape with the Galactica and a much larger fleet, which would include, hopefully, numerous supply ships.

Once the tech is figured out, yeah, it'd hopefully only be a decade before we can begin building battlestars. The technology on the ships that can do reentry and leaving the earth would probably be copied as quickly as we could make them work.

Anyway, while our main line of defense would be nuclear in nature until we can start building Battlestars, or at least smaller gunships of some kind, if we lose our ships the war IS over, unless they take enough time for us to build new ones. If they came, and came with nukes, they could just blow up Earth. Unless the plan WAS to take it over intact, and make it home. Then... land warfare would occur. IF they underestimated us, we'd win a round or two. Then we'd lose.

I can see the scenario going somehing like this:

Galactica and the Fleet reach earth, and make contact. At first, while happy to see more advanced humans that aren't wanting to kill us, we'd not trust the Galactica fleet.

Gaining trust would take several months, if not years. Think about it: If they popped up today, and made contact, would we really trust them? I don't know.

Anyway, given that liberal gifts of advanced technology pacifies us, we might get to work with the retrofits of the fleet, supervised by anyone with technical skill on the Galactica. If you go by the extended edition of Pegasus, Galactica has an entire library, including technical specs I'd imagine.

Reverse-engineering a couple FTL drives would take some months, but we'd be able to put a large number of people into that while at the same time putting large numbers into the retrofitting and resupply of Galactica, upgrading our current weapons to a satisfactory level to work with theirs if possible, replication of their devices for pulling out into earth orbit easily in addition to preparing the first stages of construction.

First, then, we'd turn a large number into nuclear ships, and send them out with Galactica to push back any attack, and hope for the best. We'd use some of the civilian ships that can shuttle from the Earth to space quickly to send resources up to build a drydock. If the Cylons actually showed up, and recognized the drydock, that'd probably be one of the first things they destroyed, so a relatively large number of ships would defend it, as well as probably every Viper or retrofitted human fighter we can build. The Galactica would probably not, however, and would go out fighting separately.

With the drydock completed as quickly as possible, those better spacesuits made in mass numbers for construction purposes, improved tools, everything, it would probably take a year to build it. On earth many shipyards would probably be converted to build smaller ships, some for defense and others, perhaps the majority, to crate stuff up there.

Soon more and more ordinance and resources would be pulled up into orbit, and within a year, maybe two, the drydock would be complete. Then the construction of a Battlestar, or perhaps multiple battlestars, would begin. Or at the very least large ships filled with heavy ordinance.

More and larger ships would be built on Earth with better equipment, and our nuclear shield would soon be supplemented with a large number of Earth-made ships, and even non-nuclear attack craft. Not to mention Viper platforms and perhaps small carriers for hopefully hundreds, maybe in some years thousands of them. (If all the resources on Earth were spent in building this stuff up.)

It'd probably be a decade before the first few Battlestars were built. But we'd be attacked before then. The first attack may very well be a single Basestar. The line of defense will definitely hold, especially if a number of relatively easy to make fighters (compared to larger ships, at least) are out. A few hundred of them might be able to at least match the enemy Raider force. (How they'll all be trained is hard to say. There WILL be a large number of experienced Galactica/Pegasus pilots, and if they spend all their time training, you might eventually, if you have even a year or two, have several hundred pilots for new Vipers.)

The battle will be ended by an attack of nuclear missles. We might lose some ships, but if we strike fast enough, the damage will be minimal.

Then another may come, to investigate. If the first one didn't escape, this one probably will, and a suitably large fleet will appear not long afterwards.

This gives maybe weeks once first contact with the enemy occurs before a sizable force appears.

They will, if they have suitable intelligence, go after the possibly incomplete shipyard. In this attack, depending on how strong the force is, the casualties will be great, a number of ships WILL be destroyed (the Vipers will probably be outmatched, if five or six Basestars appear, all fully equipped.)

Victory will come at a huge cost ,and a vast expenditure of weapons. The Galactica may be destroyed, along with possibly a majority of the ships- unless the nukes are sent in full force early, and the Basestars are overwhelmed and retreat.

Victory there will probably give Earth some time to quickly repair some defenses and keep up the nuclear arsenal. We have the nukes, all we'd need at first would be fighters and ships to hold nukes in. Perhaps nuclear dive bombers of some sort, each one fitted with several nuclear weapons.

In fact, that would probably be a priority. Nuclear bombers which can fire missles alone and then peel off- best would be if they were stealth fighters. Perhaps nuclear-armed Blackbird-type stealth fighters?

After the first major victory, the Cylons will probably be on guard before sending another fleet. Victory will be less than assured, thanks to overwhelming numbers of missles.

If there is only a year before the Cylons find them, they could very well lose the first major battle. Two years, and they could win, though future battles may be less easy to win.

If, however, five years pass, and the shipyard is constructed and the Battlestar(s) or warships are well under way, and earth based drydocks can build enough smaller nuclear and conventional gunships and fighters, they stand a good chance of repelling the first force relatively easily, and then repelling any secondary attack.

If they can hold on until capital ships are built alongside the smaller nuclear and conventional warships and dozens of squadrens of fighters (maybe fifty to a hundred forty-fighter squadrens?) and nuclear Blackbirds, and spend the resources to build one or more additional shipyards and guard them, they stand the chance of, within several decades, building up enough military force to possibly strike back.

If the Cylons don't find them at all... within two or three decades there will be a number (maybe as many as between five and a dozen) Battlestars, a large number of smaller ships, all armed with nukes, ready to go out and strike Cylong planets.

At that point, victory isn't in any way assured. But depending on the resources the Cylons actually have, it might be possible.

In addition, as the Cylons want to take over Earth, I don't think they'll nuke it. Though they might if the conflict becomes too hard, and they give up. They might even sue for peace if the battles become too hard.
 
Posted by BryanP (Member # 7772) on :
 
In any case, given how long the humans have been on Earth, I'm pulling for them to be pretty badass - more advanced than the Cylons or humans. Of course, I suppose that might not be terribly interesting... bah, at this point I have total confidence the writers will do what works. They just keep getting better.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Indeed, I'ld actually prefer if humanity on Earth wasn't too terribly advanced, beyon our current tch for sure but too advanced beyond Cylon or Colonial tech.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Actually this is a great conversation. Especially on the forum of one of the few Scifi authors that has written a book that basically played out this senario. I think that the idea that if a fleet like Galatica showed up today it would cause a senario alot like what happens to the Earth in Ender's Game. Maybe not all of the Nations at first, but at least the major players would jump on board. That means that 90% of the earth's resources would get committed right away.

Personally, I think with the advance in technology offered, reverse engineering, and the extremely scary threat of a cylon invasion, the earth would be battle ready in a lot sooner time frame than you would expect. Especially if you were to have an entire library of information just handed over to the most brilliant minds in the world and not just the theories, but also the actual working items. That's all you need to make a quantum leap in technology. The plans and the object to reverse engineer.

As far as fighters and good pilots, think about the F-22 Raptor, the newest strike fighter for the Air Force. You put a skin on that plane that would allow it to enter and exit the atmosphere and put in new engines, it's ready to go. All you would need is a pilot that can fly in both environments. With all of the trained pilots from the Galactica and the Pegasus, the fighter pilot schools that are already in place on Earth would gain all of the trained instructors they would need to get earth pilots trained to fight combat in Zero G.

We wouldn't need a full year to mount an adequate defense. If all of our resources were focused, it would only take a full months.

Another thing to think about is the idea that we would not necessary need to build shipyards in space right away. With FTL capability, a Battlestar could be built on the ground and then jump into orbit. You would need repair docks, but at first those could be mobile and not nearly as extensive operations as you would need for building ships from scratch.

The thing is, if all we have to do is replecate existing technology, we would be ready in a much shorter time frame. Even building a Battlestar could take place right away. If we had the plans today, the super structure itself could be started while work on replecating the more difficult aspects like the engines, gravity generators, and FTL drives. But still, we are only replicating, not creating. The process of replication has a much shorter learning curve and time frame for completion than trial and error.

Amending my previous statement, five years tops to get the first Battlestar into orbit. Still five years would be a very long time to hold off a continual Cylon attack with capital ship support.

[ November 07, 2006, 02:17 PM: Message edited by: ReddwarfVII ]
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
An excellent analysis, what about the political situation on Earth, how do you see the Energy Tech affecting the big picture, how would the Galactica crowd feel about our terrorists?
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Alcon:
Good heavens. Get a life guys. You sound worse than I did with my gamer geek friends back when we were 14 and 15! Seriously, if you can think about this in this much detail you have way too much time on your hands.

To quote Jack Sparrow: "You have got to find yourself a girl, mate." [Razz]

I have friends who have made plans for survival in the event of a zombie invasion.

This is nothing.

--j_k
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Sarge do you have a "Zombie Plan"?

Sarge: Of course not.

Doc: See!?

Sarge: I have 37 zombie plans!
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
I would like to know if an FTL accident could account for all of it, Kobol could be settled by Humans from the future, the constellations remembered as a key to finding home, then the civilization grew and sent out the colonies, one tried to go home, ended up in the distant past, effecting the Greeks. Full circle.

But that means that Galactica never reaches Earth because if it does then the first FTL flights from Earth will not be subject to catastrophic accidental failure, unless it was a blind jump...
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
I am sure that if the writers have the show find earth this season it will be in such and way and fashion that none of us have a clue, well at least I won't and don't. Every show that I think is going to be at worst lame and at best dry ends up being great! And the shows that I think are ging to rock end up blowing my mind. It really is one of the best shows I have ever seen.

I have a felling that earth won't really be earth. It will be some alternate universe (for us that is) not for the show timeline. Some Earth that sprouted from the galactica past, not our past. I have a feeling that it is going to be set int he time of the gods though, well ancient greece and rome with a lot more technology.

I hope all this happens this season, it's hard enough waiting till every Friday to watch the show. This waiting till next season crap kills me!
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
Hmm. Good point about the F-22's. At the very least convert them into space fighters as quickly as possible until building either original space fighters or else new Vipers would be possible. (If Vipers are better, I'd assume they'd start building them pretty quickly once they have some F-22's up there.)

Without needing to build a space drydock, yeah, I'd say the first Battlestar could be finished hopefully in five years. In fact, if multiple Battlestars are begun at once, you may have several. Or at least several ships similar to Battlestars.

The problem, yes, is lasting five years. Depending on how much the Cylons waffle, and which way they waffle, and how soon they find us, things could go either way.

As for the OSC thing: The situation here is somewhat different. FTL travel makes it much easier to defend a planet, or at least it seems so to me. You can simply jump to the location of the enemy ships and try to blow them up if you have enough force. And they cuold do the same, keeping you from attacking the planet and vice versa.

One of the other things we would hopefully do quickly is start building colony ships, give everybody diagrams, and if we can do it well enough, pre-fab factories for replicating advanced technology, and FTLing as many people as possible off of Earth. Because the loss of Earth would be devestating, if that isn't done. By the five year mark, if all resources were focused on building ships, perhaps two or three fleets designed to build a colony on another world could be completed, with the beginning defense of some squadrons of fighters and maybe some gunships.

With hopefully larger numbers than 50,000 each, maybe multiple times that number, they could try to find other worlds, and if there are no Cylons there settle down and hope for the best, beginning mines and starting to build whatever defenses possible with the pre-fab factories. (If they look really far ahead, they'd send all they needed to build a Battlestar, sans the natural resources.

However, the main problem with all of this is finding Tylium. If Earth system has some, good. If not, ships need to search for it, and hopefully build some Tylium mines pronto.

If we reached the ten-year mark and are able to build multiple Battlestars at once, and have several out in orbit along with the fighters, stealth bombers and smaller gunships, we could start sending some of those larger ships to the colonies, to defend them better. (When they find a world, I'd assume they'd send a ship or three back to inform them of the location.) Before the Battlestar(s) for each colony is complete, some smaller ships, and hopefully some more fighter squadrons, would probably be sent, along with more factories and so forth to help build faster.

In 20 years, if the Cylons left them all alone, you could have half a dozen planets all with the capacity to build Battlestars, each one with multiple Battlestars (the colonies maybe have 1-3 each and Earth, considering the much larger industrial base, maybe having a half a dozen or so beyond Galactica)

But thye wouldn't leave them alone. Some of those colonies probabbly wouldn't survive. I'd say half, if they were found? The later they were found, the better their chances. Once Earth sent a Battlestar to act as flagship for each slowly growing colony's fleet they'd stand a real chance. Once they each build their own Battlestar, the chance soars.

Training everyone would be the main problem. However I trust, should we put our heads to it, we'd overcome that problem. Reverse engineering wouldn't be that hard, especially considering we'd have the schematics for everything anyway.

At the time of the Cylon invasion, the original Colonies had 120 Battlestars in operation at that time. This was the reserve force in wait for a possible war which they didn't know they had to fight.

They had the ability to build Battlestars and a lot of other ships pretty quickly, I'd think. On Earth, the first Battlestar would be the hardest to build, afterwards multiple Battlestars would be build simultaneously. Considering that the entire planet, not just a single country, would be building them, I'd fully expect that at least three would be started once the first was done (that's worst case- they'd be started much sooner, maybe even shortly thereafter) and after that possibly as many as a dozen, 3+ in the U.S., one in Australia, several in China, several in the different countries in Europe, MAYBE one in Russia, maybe maybe, one in Canada.

Once colonies were build, each with the industry to build, say, one Battlestar at a time along with smaller ships and the ability to crank out Vipers/F-22s/whatever, they'd probably each have one done within two to three or four years each. (A year to gather the resources, two years, MAYBE three, to build the entire ship the first time.) Afterwards they could probably build a second one in about two years, and depending on the amount of resources they have and industry from Earth, in addition to how they allocate their own potential, they could possibly prepare the capacity to build more ships, possibly another Battlestar, at the same time.

This is all if the first five years are done.

Now, the Cylons could probably get there beforehand. But we stated before the ideas for converting ships to nuclear attack ships, and the construction of new attack ships for a nuclear screen. We'd probably survive awhile there. A major victory would either make the Cylons send absolutely everything they have against us, or else back off a bit. If, as we would, everything is focused on building new weapons and ships, we could possibly survive long enough to build that first battlestar and send those first few colony fleets to find new planets and resources.

Depending on how long they back off, we might not be able to support them very much. If that was the case, hopefully they would be given the potential to build their own ships and Battlestars, as I laid out earlier.

Depending on how long before the Cylons find the first human colony, they might not be looking for it. Especially if they focus on Earth, and don't notice any ships jumping out to other systems. If they find it early, they'd probably not be preparing to attack it. If they manage to destroy the first ship, or not, either way a second, larger attack early on on the much weaker target would very possibly result in its destruction. And a search for other colonies.

Depending on their luck, half the colonies could be destroyed if they are found less than five years after their creation. If they have built their own Battlestar already, even if Earth cannot spare any reinforcements, they would stand a better chance.

If a planet is discovered after that mark, and the first Battlestar and a small fleet is completed, with another on the way, they'd probably win, and could, if they're smart and knwo the location of the other colonies, send for reinforcements if they're attacked again. That way, if there are a half dozen colonies, each with their own Battlestar, possibly one or two with a second one, they could send their attack fleets to take out the enemy fleet when they strike, and then return to their as yet unknown location once the battle is done. One by one, however, their locations will be found, and depending on Earth's situation things could go an interesting way.

It depends on the resources of the Cylons. By then, several attacks on Earth, including one or two, maybe more full scale attacks might drain resources. Even if they win on Earth, they'll lose a lot of ships. If Earth is destroyed, but lasts until each colony has multiple Battlestars, the human race will probably continue, as not all the colonies would be known, and they probably wouldn't all be found until their force is much greater than that.

If Earth is lost at this point, a lot of people would flee to the new colonies, in addition to the remnants of their fleet, and all the data they have. This would aid the colonies, and if their location isn't known by the Cylons, things could go well.

If Earth holds out, and has enough breathing room, we'd send more resources and factories to the colonies, in addition to hopefulyl new colonies (though we'd send less of them once we had a good half dozen or so) allowing them to build more, faster, using these virgin planets' resources. Possibly several million would be sent to each colony over several years, maybe up to over ten million each if there is enough breathing room to spare the people.

Now, say those hard fought two decades pass, and Earth is protected, and the colonies (by then maybe ten? First six in the first 5-10 years, maybe one more every two or three years since then?) would be building their own fleets. The Cylons might know where all the planets are. They might not know where several are, but they'd know by then where most are, probably. And they'd be searching for the last few. By now, Earth at least might be able to spare ships enough for an attack fleet. Possibly the first few colonies could be preparing a combined attack fleet (of colonial ships together, probably not enough to build an entire attack fleet each colony._) as well, and the attack of Cylon occupied territory could begin. I'd imagine some major attacks would begin once there are multiple Battlestars (any over five or so. Should there be that many, probably two or three Battlestars would be left at Earth at any time, along with ome of the smaller ships. Two or three would go out to attack, along with a number of the smaller attack ships.) However, by this time, full-fledged, relatively large fleets could be fielded. Maybe even a ten battlestar fleet in addition to 8 or so battlestars staying at EArth, along with another ten battlestars from the combined forces of the colonies, with at least 3 battlestars plus suppor tships staying behind?

The war would by then, should things go well, possibly turn. If things can hold on another ten, another twenty years, the Cylons might be forced into a ceasefire, maybe even surrender large areas to the humans. Oh, I'd imagine several colonies would be destroyed, and some damage could occur to Earth, but by and large we'd have spread out and built up enough to survive.

This all depends on the amount of power the Cylons have. They didn't need to match the 120 battlestars ship for ship, due to their virus. But I wouldnt' be surprised if they had such a fleet. Especially after a decade or so of battle against the new forces.

It also depends on their decisions. They might decide to stop fighting entirely, and leave the new colonies alone. It depends on their mind, as well as their power. I don't know what would happen.

I know in the series so far they've lost... eight basestars that we've seen, to the Galactica and the Pegasus alone? I'd imagine the Pegasus has destroyed a couple more during the days of Admiral Cain. So... possibly ten or eleven? That's a serious hurt, really. If the Earth's forces could match such damage, due to intelligent strategy, attacking only when they have at least equal if not greater numbers (made easier by having numerous support ships! Far easier!) then things could go well.

It'd be quite a war, either way.

If they knew where the Cylon world was, onve a large enough fleet was built, they might have a chance taking it out. Though even a combined twenty battlestar fleet might meet an even larger force in orbit around the Cylon homeworld. But if things are heated enough, and the battle is hard enough, it might be worth a shot...
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Another thing to remember is the fact that the only reason the cylons wiped humanity the way that they did was the Virus. They have played that card. Never again will a human fleet be built with that weakness. Networking will be left behind or security measures so strong that the cylons would be very hard pressed to defeat it. Either way, their ability to render our defenses useless would be a thing of the past. They need a large fleet to defeat ours, they just needed a large number of nukes. I would bet they have used up most of their stockpile already in the attack of the 12 colonies.

The show has shown that time and time again, in a straight on fight, the cylons are a less effective fighting force. Even the biomechanical raiders don't have instinct and intuition. The human pilots are superior fighters in every way. They take risks that are stupid and they pay off. The cylons don't do that. They only launched their attack on humanity once victory was assured. They aren't willing to take great risks to achieve victory. That makes them very weak strategically and cautious to the point of problematic inaction. They always think before going in. We don't always do that. We are reckless, they aren't. Being stupid and reckless are base survival instincts that are a huge advantage in one on one conflicts. They don't have that.

One of the cylons major weaknesses is that they fear death, true death, to an extreme level. Holding off a cylon attack force is as simple as destroying a resurrection ship every time. That can be done with a stealth ship and a raptor armed with a nuke. Stealth jumps in, locates the resurrection ship, jumps back with precise coordinates. Raptor jumps in with the nuke, launches nuke, jumps away as it explodes the ship. Add in that the pilot of the raptor is ordered to stay there to ensure impact, even if means their life, and you have got a pretty effective strategy for survival. Not necessarily winning, but definately survival.

The cylons will not commit suicide in any form. Humans see self sacrifice for the greater cause as a high ideal. We are willing to give up our lives to save others. The cylons, so far, are not.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Or even better, what if we destroyed their ability to download. By a computer virus or jamming system or something? That would take the wind out of their sails for a really long time.
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
A resurrection Jammer would be brilliant strategy, set it up at the fleet and the Cylons would never attack inside or it.

I do wonder if the Cylon 'Death Signal' can beat a catastrophic incident like a nuke. What is the band width for the transfer?

Of course maybe the Cylon's back up their consciousness every day or so, so that all they would lose would be the one fight, it depends on protocol.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by General Sax:
Of course maybe the Cylon's back up their consciousness every day or so, so that all they would lose would be the one fight, it depends on protocol.

You know I have been wondering about that. The more I see of the show, the less likely I think that would be. I don't think that the download process works like that. I do think that the cylons are "networked" together, which is why D'Anna was able to recognize Athena on New Caprica, but I don't think that there is a whole lot of data transfer going on.
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
I tend to agree, conciousness does not seem to lend itself to digital encoding. It might require an anolog download that would be massive...
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I agree with the "networked" theory. We've seen numerous instances of Athena "accessing" information without hooking up to any sort of physical access point. In "The Farm," I think it was, Athena hadn't accessed the information relating to the number of women still remaining in the farms; and then again in "Exodus, Part I" Sharon accesses the Cylon Wireless to figure out which drawer the launch keys are in.

As to how this actually works, beats me.
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
I suspect it is tied to the projection ability, the Cylon remains Autonomous but can create an information field, a virtual reality interface that allows them to process a large amount of information in an organized favorite reality interface. If that is the case then there is a limit to processing speed as a price for remaining individuals. It could be seen as a fire wall, but the possibility of dropping a Cylon into a reality that they cannot control and that will traumatize them is very real. Perhaps that is what the virus does?
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
Subs wouldn't work.....not even with retrofitting.


They are made to withstand compression, and would have to be built from scratch.


Also, you are all giving us way too much credit. It takes longer than that just to build a sub these days...spacecraft would be just as time consuming, at least at first. Probably even more time consuming.
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
A sub is many times stronger then it needs to be to be a spaceship. Think of the relative pressures involved. It does not matter that it is the wrong way, you are talking about one atmosphere of internal pressure versus a design for hundreds.

These days would very quickly become those days, (the days when our entire nation was building warships faster then the Axis could build torpedoes) when the threat is as real as a battle scarred ship with thousands of hours of footage of the bad guys and fifty thousand refuges from radioactive planets.

I believe there was an actual engineer written article on using a theoretical anti-gravity device to retro-fit subs and what would be required. I remember reading it in Asimov Science Fiction Magazine back in high school (ancient times 80-84) but the gist was that the super structure would be sufficient, in fact, massively over built.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Gen. Sax while agree with most of what you ay but keep in mind that building WWII era weapons is extrmeely simple compared to modern weapons, modern weapons take alot longer to build.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
I agree Blayne, but don't forget that we would be getting their skematics, knowledge, training, and acutal objects built to be reverse engineered. The questions that we would have would be answered before we asked them. Add that to what we have already got and I think that we are overestimating in some areas, but still totally underestimating in others.

I don't know remember reading about the sub idea, but, you know what, put an FTL, sublight engines, upgrade the radar to dradis, add a layer of armoring to help them to stand up in battle better, and they are ready to go. The best part is that they could jump into orbit from their drydock here on earth. That's one year's worth of work tops if you simply stripped the needed parts out of existing colonial ships. Add to that highly skilled crews that are already used to working and fighting in an environment similar to space. The subs carrying ICBs would be especially terrifying to a Basestar. Each one of those boats can carry about 50 missles. No Basestar could withstand more than a couple of nukes before they are dust. One sub could carry enough nukes to wipe out an entire cylon fleet. Have one of those jump into the middle of a cylon fleet, launch all of their missles and jump out. Battle over.

I call that an instant planetary defense strategy. Kudos to whoever brought up the sub idea.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Can't the Basestars just launched half a million nukes at the planet, just like they did with the Twelve Colonies? All they would have to do is jump in, launch the barrage, and jump out fast? Unless some system can be build to shoot down tens of thousands of missles I don't know how we could survive.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
not if a global Star Wars plan is ever realized that defends ALL nations.

Except Newfoundland.... no one needs them...
 
Posted by PUNJABEE (Member # 7359) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:


Except France.... no one needs them...

Fixed.*


*not a politically influenced comment. I just hate france.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
oh dear...
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
If the missles just cleaned the streets and sanatized the canals while bathing the populace I would let them hit France too...(oh and killed the pidgeons...)

I like the Jump in and out defense, I think if one treated the solar system as a XYZ grid with preset FTL solutions and a dradis net, defense in depth is possible, a variation on the A-10 Warthog air grid we used in Desert Storm, one plane to a grid responding to anything that fails to have an IFF transponder.

It is a good bet that they will not have thousands of nukes, but we sure do. Earth could mount a very good defense. All this talk makes me hungry to see it! Would we put the Galactica and Addama in charge of the Global Defense Force?

One could explain the lack of a language barrier by having the Raptors record a few years worth of broadcasts and create a language data base, or they might use the time travel origin to account for the similarity in language (Earth future to Kobol Past to Colonies back to Earth)

Almost seventy years of signal to listen to if the raptors jump in at various distances.
 
Posted by Mr.Funny (Member # 4467) on :
 
A couple of things...

First off, many of you seem to be referring to the Boomer model as 3. She is 8! Not 3!

Also, people are talking about adapting our fighter aircraft for spaceflight. I'd be willing to bet that it'd be faster and easier to design and build a space fighter from scratch. It'd have to be vacuum-proofed, have a whole new engine put in, have a thruster system for manuevering installed... it'd basically require rebuilding the whole plane from scratch, which would completely defeat the purpose.
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
I agree with that assessment, but a Viper does not look significantly harder to build then what we build now, in fact we might be able to improve on the landing gear.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
well, we could convert current fighters for spaace flight make them remote controlled and send them on kamikaze runs.
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
Our fighters would need directional rocket guidance systems rather then flaps and rudders, plus I think they might have to fight Cylons in the atmosphere. I remember a piece of Galactica 1980 where American jets scramble to intercept a pair of Vipers, their is a comment from the Viper pilots "Man these guys are good!" I remember feeling proud that the US military was able to maneuver with Colonial Vipers, silly I know but still a good moment in a bad show.
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by General Sax:
A sub is many times stronger then it needs to be to be a spaceship. Think of the relative pressures involved. It does not matter that it is the wrong way, you are talking about one atmosphere of internal pressure versus a design for hundreds.

These days would very quickly become those days, (the days when our entire nation was building warships faster then the Axis could build torpedoes) when the threat is as real as a battle scarred ship with thousands of hours of footage of the bad guys and fifty thousand refuges from radioactive planets.

I believe there was an actual engineer written article on using a theoretical anti-gravity device to retro-fit subs and what would be required. I remember reading it in Asimov Science Fiction Magazine back in high school (ancient times 80-84) but the gist was that the super structure would be sufficient, in fact, massively over built.

That's funny....considering my parents lived near Grotton, CT, and most of the guys in the neighborhood worked on subs...and a large number of people I knew designed and manufactured the actual subs you are speaking of, I MIGHT have a clue about this.

They wouldn't be fit for space at all. Not for any type of duration, for sure.


I realize we are speaking sci/fi here, but I really think that you are overestimating our production capacity. Not to mention our capacity to work together, without egos getting in the way.


WWII weapons are hardly cutting edge tech.
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
And what in the world makes you think a ship the size of a basestar would only have a few nukes? More than a few were launched at Galatica, on more than one occasion. I bet we wouldn't even be able to lock on to them. [Wink]
 
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
 
I don't know the exact size of a Basestar, but I think the most effective way to kill humans would be to crash one into the earth. If it could survive through the atmosphere, it would be similar to a massive meteor strike in its destructive power.

If it's filled with nukes, say bye bye to habitation.
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
I work near the McDonald Douglas plant, doesn't make me an aviation engineer. But we do have indication that Nukes are scarce and traceable. They are used sparingly, they are feared greatly as an uncommon weapon. The Galactica had fewer then a single American Sub. Also we have some indications that Cylons do not like radiation and working with it. I suspect that their are sharp limits on Cylon productivity in this area. Why are they looking for a new home? What does their home world look like?
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
The Galactica had so few nukes mainly because they were in the process of disarming the ship when the war happened.

I guess Ragnar station didn't have any nukes. At least I'd assume such a thing was true.
 
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
 
quote:
First off, many of you seem to be referring to the Boomer model as 3. She is 8! Not 3!
Yeah, 3 is what you would get if you cut Sharon in half.

Also, Mr. Funny, when did you start watching BSG? I don't remember you mentioning it.
 
Posted by Mr.Funny (Member # 4467) on :
 
Recently. A couple weeks ago, maybe. I just finished catching up to the current episode a few days ago. (No, I never mentioned it to you. [Razz] )
 
Posted by Mr.Funny (Member # 4467) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
well, we could convert current fighters for spaace flight make them remote controlled and send them on kamikaze runs.

It would be far, far easier and cheaper to create missles designed for spaceflight than to retrofit current fighter aircraft.

Face it, Blayne - unless the Cylons come down inside the lower atmosphere, our fighter jets are completely worthless.
 
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
 
That's where the X-302s come in!
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Guys, I don't know where you are getting your infomation, but all modern aircraft, military and commercial, that fly at high altitudes will have a sealed and airtight cabin or cockpit. In fact, Chuck Yeager set an altitude recond in his last X jet for acheiving a near sub-orbital flight. All military fighter plans have cockpits that are already capable of space flight.

What you would have to do to retrofit an F-22 raptor in order to give it the ability to exit and re enter the atmosphere is engines that work in both environments, a skin that can withstand the heat of reentry, and a directional manuevering system for space flight. The space shuttle has two of the needed systems, so biggest problems are the engines.

Kwea, that's great that you lived near a sub base, but I highly doubt that you had this type of conversation with any of the engineers or sub designers at some point. So no, you really don't know what you are talking about. However, if you know any of them still, I think it would be neat to have one of them weigh in on the concept anyway. Myself, I'm not totally convinced that a structure designed to hold stuff out is going to be as strong at keeping it in. That said, NASA uses an underwater environment for training and testing their equipment. I would actually be surprised that a modern sub, I repeat, modern sub would not be an effective war machine in space. Probably fitted with engines, armor, and FTL's that is.

From my side, my dad worked at an Air Force in the Quality Control lab for aircraft repair. My niece is an aeronautical engineer and was involved in the X-Prize contest. And my brother works for an aerospace company that manufactures lear jet engines. He works in shipping, but he knows alot of the engineers over there. So yeah, I have my resources that I could ask. I haven't yet, but I think am going to and risk being known as an uber geek to find out how plausible, given the type of quantum leap in tech that Galatica would bring, retrofitting a modern fighter aircraft would be.

Kwea, if you can do the same. I would be fascinated to know what you find out.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
But then again, why ruin such a lively conversation as this with such an annoyance as fact! [Big Grin]
 
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
 
I don't think the tech level (assuming that it's near modern day earth) would be much of a hurdle. How long have we been sending manned ships into space now? It's old technology. Making space fighting craft would be trivially easy, even without using any of Galactica's information.

I think the biggest problem will be the state of Earth when they arrive. What if the Earth is already in the middle of a number of wars? What if there is overpopulation and resource shortages? Will the people of Earth really welcome the people of the Colonies? Maybe they left on bad terms? Maybe they're highly xenophobic.

Getting earth to trust Galactica, cutting through the red tape, convincing the people of earth to work together, these will be the real problems.

We can't even manage to put together an "International" space station with a hand full of countries. Which country is going to be the first to spend their national budget on space fighters?
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
Well, let's assume that they reach Earth, say, tomorrow afternoon at 3:41 PM Eastern Standard Time.

So, the state of Earth now. I think that's what all of us are assuming here, or most anyway.

But the biggest hurdle to getting things working IS trust. That's the big problem, and the one I'd be most worried about.

Of cuorse, should we then believe their warnings of the threat, I think we could work much harder than we have in a very long time- nothing like the incentive of the imminent destruction of the Earth by an overwhelming military power, and the providence of having now the capability to at least hold out, should we use it.
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
50,000 people with a new skill set? All with language and other experience we would value? I think Iowa would take them. Heck I think the Quad Cities would take them and build them all houses for what they would bring.

Remember that wherever they settle, that is where the big manufacturing contracts are going to be. I wonder if the Galactica would come to the United States or if they would try to deal with the UN?
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
definately the UN thry wouldn't prefer to deal wit the superpower except in military terms theyld talk wiht the the overning body that legitimately represents the world.
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
It'd probably be like (for lack of a better comparison) when Ender's Jeesh returned after the war. Everyone would be fighting to get the best and brightest.

[ November 10, 2006, 08:08 PM: Message edited by: B34N ]
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
I think not, Adamma and even Rosalyn are very tired of the business of politics, a few generations of watching the UN fumble the ball on the television might leave them with a more pragmatic view of who has the military might and technology they can best utilize and integrate with. It would leave them with NATO and the US in particular as their point of contact. Can you see the UN voting that the Galactica crew must be divided among all countries? Even as VIPs they would face some pretty cruel disparities in the lottery to follow. The UN is a committee of sharp individuals who collectively can do nothing of any importance.
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
Yeah but just like the Jeesh they really wouldn't have much of a choice in the matter. Now granted just about everyone in the Fleet would go to War for Adamma after getting them off New Caprica but I still think that the political powers in play here on Earth would be falling all over eachother to get the Galactica's crew in their camp.

** edited for spelling **
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
Addama's decision to ignore the treachery that took the ultimate weapon out of their hands was strange, Rosalyn's amnesty was one thing but it seems to me that discipline in the chain of command is a bit lax, the ranks are full of mavericks at best renegades at worst...

It is amazing that Athena can live with the loyalty to the uniform and the knowledge of her love's actions.

I think they where playing fast and loose with the resurrection process, an electrical feedback that duplicates the virus? Please...

Still that is doctrine now, sigh... We know they have the virus on tap and all they need to do is infect a Cylon at any point in the future to repeat the process. Knowing that you can kill your enemy at will is a load off the mind. It may make them more clear headed.

It also looks as if Sharon's baby is the cure for the Cylon's in the face of this biological weapon. So it is very possible that they might pull the trigger and have the Cylon's pull a cure from the child. Having the Colonials try to exterminate them would put both sides on the same moral ground in the zero sum game they are playing.

Has anybody else noticed the liberal use of the out of focus, focus tight and zoom in effects on the outside? Joss Weadon pioneered that style on Firefly. Amazing to see it spread so fast.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Wow, tonight's episode was cool. I liked how the Cylon command consol was rotted.

What I don't get is how a virus could survive 3000 years on a probe in space?
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
It's a virus. It was never alive in the first place. All it is is a block of protien and DNA. Basically a bunch of molecules.

It's actually possible for bacteria to survive on asteriods for very long duration journeys. They go into spore form and can take immense amounts of radiation. Like 10,000 times more radiation than a human can take. Plus survive the hard vacuum. And since when a bacteria is in spore form, it stops dividing, it can essentially live forever. Or until it finds itself a nice new, warm wet habitat.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I kind of wish they'd just lay out the current chain of command for me. Lee outranks Starbuck and Helo and yet he's hanging with the Marines? Is that what he's doing now? I know, I know, there's the whole deleted scene idea where Lee actually joins the Marines in order to get his edge back, but he's still the third-highest ranking officer in the Fleet (behind Tigh, when he's on duty). GAH!

That said, I'm super-excited for next week.
 
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
 
Lost needs to take notes from BSG.
I <3 BSG.
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
If the Marines use an Army Chain of Command then it makes sense for Lee to move the their head and be the second highest ranking officer but outside the naval chain of command. It is a lateral shift to a different branch. (It also takes care of Tigh being a Colonel on a Naval Vessel) The situation was described by Heinlein in Starship Troopers, an Army Capitan is like a Navy Lieutenant. Also for reasons of protocol on board ship he was never called Captain, but instead called Commander. I do not know how much of that applies today, Heinlein was Navy in WW II, so much of the protocol may be dated or less strict.

Still Lee has been in charge of strike teams before, clearly it is an area of expertise for him. I still am not happy with Helo bucking the command decision on this, right or wrong my gut tells me he should fry. I guess that is the difference between military and civilian sensibilities.

Where is this deleted scene at? How do you get it?
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
Maybe I'm too civilian, but I felt like Helo did the right thing by disobeying orders and not letting it happen. I think it's impossible to justify genocide (heck, I think it's very very difficult to justify using weapons of mass destruction, and that's only a drop in the bucket compared to genocide). I think Helo's point was valid in saying that if they did it, they weren't any better than the Cylons.

I'm really not sure how Adama is going to get away with not looking into the matter of who stopped the genocide attempt. I mean I know he can look the other way and all, but couldn't Rosalin (as president) force an investigation into the matter? It seemed to be a really big thing for her, and so if she just lets it go I'd be surprised. Maybe this will be addressed in later episodes though.
 
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
 
I suspect Bill's letting it slide becuase he didn't want to use the Cylons as weapons in the first place. I think he's a lot less blood-thirsty than Rosalyn has become.

Lee still outranks Helo? I thought I heard Helo was the XO now instad of Tigh? (I missed a few episodes.)

Also, what did I miss with Kara? Last I saw her, Bill was throwing her out for being a malcontent. Now she's right back in the cockpit.

Can't wait to see what happens with Gaius now. How will Caprica Six deal with Deanna thinking Gaius loves her? Caprica seems like she hasn't fully reconciled her feelings yet, and the Sixes tend to be quite jealous. Will Deanna love Gaius back? Will she finally get what the Sharons and Sixes have been saying? This ought to be good.
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
My whole thing with Adama wasn't that he let it slide; I knew from the episode that he wasn't as blood-thirsty and didn't want to do it. I'm questioning why Rosalin let Adama let it slide. I would think, being as blood-thirsty as she seemed, that she would demand an investigation. I could be wrong though.

In regards to Kara, at the end of last episode, she cut her hair and went and talked to Casey and her mom. To me, that was sort of showing that she was going to try and get past what happened on New Caprica. I think Adama's respect for her is important, and when he said what he did to her she knew that she was headed in the wrong direction and decided to change.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
quote:
Can't wait to see what happens with Gaius now. How will Caprica Six deal with Deanna thinking Gaius loves her? Caprica seems like she hasn't fully reconciled her feelings yet, and the Sixes tend to be quite jealous. Will Deanna love Gaius back? Will she finally get what the Sharons and Sixes have been saying? This ought to be good.
I think she could tell that Gaius wasn't really seeing her. That he wasn't really there. I think she interpretted it as Gaius talking to god.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
quote:
I think it's impossible to justify genocide
Sure there is. Your own survival. If you and your race are about to be killed off forever you have a right and duty to save yourself and your people. The people (Cylons) who are trying to commit genocide against you have cessed to be a people by their actions, and have become nothing more than a mad dog. And what do you do with a mad dog? You put it down before it bites someone. No difference. All that matters is Humanity's survival... as the President said, if history hates them at least there are people to do the hating.
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
I think there are other means to surviving that don't resort to wiping out an entire species. Prior to the goof-up at New Caprica, the Battlestar Galactica group hadn't lost tons of people to the Cylons. It's true they were still fighting for survival, but they were doing it successfully withotu resort to these types of measures. And if you look at the Cylon's recent relations with the humans, something else entirely is coming up. The Cylons didn't finish the job against humanity when given the chance at New Caprica (they could have easily nuked New Caprica and then chased after Galactica and the rest of th fleet). Since the humans left New Caprica, we really haven't seen the Cylons chasing them either. I really just can't see genocide as justifiable in anything but a last resort (i.e. your race has no way of surviving but doing it).
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
quote:
Prior to the goof-up at New Caprica, the Battlestar Galactica group hadn't lost tons of people to the Cylons. It's true they were still fighting for survival, but they were doing it successfully withotu resort to these types of measures.
Are you nuts?? Or haven't you seen the pilot/first season? They lost 50 billion people with the nuclear bombardment of the Twelve Colonies! And the Cylons were not satisfied with that...they pursued the last pathetic 50,000 survivrors, people who just happened to be offworld when the attack occured. They have lost EVERYTHING...their families, their homes, their jobs, their cities, their books, their music, their planets.

The Fleet is the very last flicker of Human life left, and the Cylons would have it gone. They Cylons have become Evil Incarnate though their actions. Humans have a right and duty to use any means nessecary to survive.
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
Note that I said in particular the Battlestar Galactica group and not humanity on the whole. I'm not justifying what the Cylons did to the Twelve Colonies or anything. My point still remains: the part of humanity that is still around has managed to survive and fight the Cylon attacks that have come after it without resorting to measures that would make it just as bad as the Cylons were when they wiped out the Twelve Colonies.

EDIT: To be honest, I don't really want to argue about this and turn this thread into a large debate or anything. Let's just agree to disagree, okay?
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
Pretty good episode I was hoping there would be more about the Earth journey in this one but hopefully that will continue next! [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Sorry pfresh! That sounded way more hostile than I ment it. [Smile] Just getting overly exited. I love debating stuff like this.
*hugs*
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
Not a problem, Telp. I know how it goes when you get overly excited about something. [Big Grin]
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
Helo had a point, the Cylons certainly were not committed to Genocide anymore, remember how 'Al' said 'We decided we were hasty in our decision to wipe out humanity, so we have decided to live in peace here, "No harm no foul"

To the Cylons the inconvenient destruction of billions is equal to the sparring of thousands. They likely see fifty thousands humans as a brief few centuries from billions again. It is not far from the truth.

The dynamic has changed though, before, common sense said that if the fleet could get enough space and time between themselves and the Cylons they should settle or expand the fleet to accommodate several generations of growth. Now however the Galactica has to stop the Cylons from reaching Earth. Now they are a threat to billions of humans and the Galactica is Earth's guardian, there is no safe harbor for the Galactica now but the Earth.

The question remains though, what have the Cylons done to their home worlds that makes them need a 'new start?'
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
quote:
Kwea, that's great that you lived near a sub base, but I highly doubt that you had this type of conversation with any of the engineers or sub designers at some point.
Nice....any other conversations that you doubt I had with them? How did you hear our conversations?


When discussing subs with the people who build them, don't ever assume you know anything about where the conversation is heading, or where it will end up. We had odder discussions than this one more than once. I know I never wondered if subs and spacecraft are different, and how, but they had.


More than a little. [Smile]


The difference is they actually knew what they were talking about, particularily compared to us. [Razz]

[ November 11, 2006, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
If you have information then share it, do not hint about, do not get smarmy about it. If you cannot remember specifics go back to your friends and recollect it. If you cannot do either then do not pretend to expertise you do not possess or have access to.

It is a silly thing to risk your credibility over and it is an even sillier thing to lose your welcome over. We know that subs are air tight, roomy, with internal power and reliable systems. That is a lot closer to a space ship then empty air.

Also do not assume that you know the qualifications of everyone in a discussion, you will almost always assume that you know more due to a bias of the ego and in your case that seems likely to be erroneous.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Helo is, as stated in the last episode, a Captain. Lee is, as also stated in the last episode, a Major. Major outranks Captain, hence Lee outranks Helo. Now, Helo is the acting XO of Galactica, but if we're going to split hairs over this, Lee is higher on the command chain. Kara is, IMO, a Captain, as she certainly seemed to be filling the role of CAG during the strike on the last episode.

The deleted scenes re: Lee joining the Marines are mentioned several times during the podcasts.
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
In the Navy a Captain is equal to a Colonel in the Army or Marines, let me see if I can remember the ranks.

O1-Ensign/Second Lieutenant
O2-Lieutenant/First Lieutenant
O3-Senior Grade Lieutenant/Captain
O4 Lt Commander/Major
O5 Commander/Lieutenant Colonel
O6 Captain/Colonel
07 Admiral/General

This is rough and if anybody wants the rest, the various generals and admirals (Rear/Major and so forth) I can look them up. It is clear that a Major in the Marines is a step or two below a Captain in the Navy.
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by General Sax:
If you have information then share it, do not hint about, do not get smarmy about it. If you cannot remember specifics go back to your friends and recollect it. If you cannot do either then do not pretend to expertise you do not possess or have access to.

It is a silly thing to risk your credibility over and it is an even sillier thing to lose your welcome over. We know that subs are air tight, roomy, with internal power and reliable systems. That is a lot closer to a space ship then empty air.

Also do not assume that you know the qualifications of everyone in a discussion, you will almost always assume that you know more due to a bias of the ego and in your case that seems likely to be erroneous.

[Angst]
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
Pay no attention to the General behind the curtain, B34N. Seriously. Being dissed by him is like a medal of honor.
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Alcon:
quote:
Can't wait to see what happens with Gaius now. How will Caprica Six deal with Deanna thinking Gaius loves her? Caprica seems like she hasn't fully reconciled her feelings yet, and the Sixes tend to be quite jealous. Will Deanna love Gaius back? Will she finally get what the Sharons and Sixes have been saying? This ought to be good.
I think she could tell that Gaius wasn't really seeing her. That he wasn't really there. I think she interpretted it as Gaius talking to god.
I think she took it personally. She's always seemed a little raw, emotionally. Wanting to be loved, I mean.
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
Losing Gabrielle probably caused it...

It is strange that the male and Female Cylons do not turn to each other for love, as if they know that they are not capable of it. What does this suggest? That love is a thing that a Cylon can only reflect back, not originate? Their seems to be a lack of diverse experience among the Cylons that fails to create any uniqueness worth loving. So I would guess that certain models might be more compatible with each other, but that individuals of those types would be able to substitute for one another in any relationship.

Could two Cylons trapped on a dessert Island find love for one another? It would be an interesting experiment.
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
Now I'm picturing Cylons in a gingerbread house...
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by General Sax:
If you have information then share it, do not hint about, do not get smarmy about it. If you cannot remember specifics go back to your friends and recollect it. If you cannot do either then do not pretend to expertise you do not possess or have access to.

It is a silly thing to risk your credibility over and it is an even sillier thing to lose your welcome over.

Call yourself General whatever...generally you are just a jackass.

I stopped taking orders from...wait, that's right....


I have never taken orders from you.


I have been far more welcome here than you will ever be, for far longer, even including your previous alts. You can grandstand all you want, you won't ever be anything other than bluster. No one I know cares what you have to say, at least as far as I know.


I will always be far more credible than you are, for many reasons.


It is easy for you to say those things, as you are not welcome by most standards, nor do you have any credibility to waste.


Under any alt.


How long does a sub take to make? What is it made of, how is it assembled, and what is the difference between positive and negative pressures on a hull. What type of effect would a direct hit from a nuke have on the best sub ever made, and why?


Why do subs take so long to make, and what is the fastest one has ever been made? How much "extra" space is in a sub to make room for all those "improvments" we would have to make?


How much does a toilet seat cost on a sub? Why is it so expensive, and why is the cost worth every penny, even if it doesn't seem like it is to landlubbers?


How many answers did you know BEFORE you googled the questions? [Wink]


I won't bother explaining any of this for you....I don't think I know any words small enough for that.


Nor do I care enough to bother. You have, once again, turned a completely fun conversation into a pissing contest.


And you probably aren't bright enough to understand why you are at fault.


Carry on. [Roll Eyes]

[ November 12, 2006, 08:36 PM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
however I request you explain thme to me, so you are now obligated to do so.
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
lol
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
however I request you explain thme to me, so you are now obligated to do so.

Me too, me too, I wanna know. Seriously though. Those are some pretty interesting things that I would love to know more about. Especially the extra space for improvements and why toilet seats cost so much. [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
There is no extra room. If you had ever been in a sub you would know what I mean.


All that "extra space"....roomy is what the all-knowing "General" called it, I believe....is used, and the living space is very close. SO close that submariners have to be screened very carefully for claustrophobia. Even a mild case of it can cause huge complications in a sub. There is no space that is considered extra on a sub....even though the modern subs are far roomier than the older ones.


They also do not carry hundreds of nukes each. The exact amount they do carry is classified, and varies from sub to sub, and from class of sub to class of sub as well.


A direct hit would obliterate them. Even a close miss would....which gives you an idea of how tough the Galactica would have to be to withstand a direct hit at all, let alone multiple hits. Not to mention that no electronic system we have ever built would withstand a near miss or direct hit either....so not only would we have to come up with nonexistent room for improvements, but we would have to gut all of the controls, all of the electrical systems, all of the life support systems....


It would be far more cost effective to design ships from scratch, particularly since they would already have the plans for them. The design phase is always the most time consuming for projects like this.

A toilet seat is important, believe it or not. If you are away at sea for half a year or more without ever coming up for air then you don't want one to break, so you? Also, subs don't travel like cars, always level. They travel at angles, climbing and diving....so everything has to be secure, and if something isn't it could break off and kill someone. Perhaps someone with the codes to the nukes, compromising the whole mission. A loose screw could cause enough noise to allow another sub to track them, and lead to their deaths.

Spacecraft are even more expensive to make, and the redundancy systems have to be even greater. And that is without considering any combat contingencies.


We can turn out a Virgina Class sub in about 1 1/2years, but that is pushing it. They cost about
200 million each, not including inflation or arms.


But that doesn't include the planning stages, which take longer. In Groton, CT., they are about 17 subs based there.

17. Not hundreds, or thousands.

17. (plus a few they don't tell us about, probably)


My point wasn't how much any of us know about subs, or space travel (fictional space travel at that!). My point was that I do have a little knowledge about these things, and I have spoken to a lot of people who worked on subs, or lived in them. A lot of those people are sci/fi fans, and we had a lot of sci/fi conversations.


First I was told that I had not had any such conversations. I said I had, and then I was called a dilettante, although not in so many words.


I never said I was an expert......considering we are talking about fictional works on TV, it would hard to claim that with a straight face, at least for me. [Big Grin] I did say that some of the people I knew, who should know better then any of us, doubted it.


So I got called smarmy. Then ordered around. I was told, by someone no one likes, that I was risking both my credibility (in a fictional area?) and my welcome here at Hatrack. Then I was told, by someone who has never met me that my ego had erroneously led me to believe I knew about discussion I had already had in my own past.....and that I had somehow ignored his expertise in a field that doesn't exist, about a fictional TV show, based on his "knowledge".


I expressed an opinion other than his own. About a subject that was in a sci/fi magazine 25 years ago......maybe. He thinks.


Shoot me now. Although if his ability with a gun matches his ability to make a reasonable point, or conduct a civilized discussion about fictional events, I may have never been safer than I am while he aims at me. [Smile]

[ November 14, 2006, 12:26 AM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
Yeah, I don't know anything about all that but the sub explanation was pretty cool thanks for the information. [Hail]
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
The room is outside the sub, you poor unimaginative soul.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
So.

How 'bout that last episode?
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Im convinced enough that converting a submarine is probly a bad idea its like taking software code and trying to add sveral functions to it only to find out you would have saved time debugging had you made it form scratch.


Lets look at Homeworld 2 whose space combat system is somewhat decently similar to what the BSG team fight throuh, ships fight from meters-kilometers ranges.


So we need fighters, frigits, corvettes, destoryers and cruisers, carriers and some sort of dreadnaught class to pop destroyers and frigates.

The mian difference between a frig and a DD is probly armour and armament otherwise they're size/chassis is probably going to be the same. A DD may have say 4 meters of reinforced titantium plates extra covering it like pajamas.

A cruiser would be far more heavily armed and armoured might the same speed as the DD but carrying a far heavier caliber of guns on it, dozens more missile tubes more armour.

For a Battlecruiser, well think of a cruiser and then some, bloody thing should be theotetically capable of obliterating frigate at will and possibly put up a good fight vs a few destroyers and cruisers, may not win outright but by jove they put up a fight.

And of course a "carrier" we'ld probly build something a little lighter then a Battlestar but will carry a far greater complement of space strike aircraft.

Now lets look at our crew, the combined sace agenies/manpower of the Second Artillery People's Liberation Airforce, Russian Strategic Rocket Force, NASA, Royal Canadian Airforce, People's Liberation Army Airforce, USAF, Russian Airforce, NATO airforce, and Indian space aganecy/airforce and maybe some demolbilized Iraqi pilots should with BSG training should in about a month be ready to pilot in space, sophistocated training simulators and software should speed up the process, I personally suggest that if this ever were ot happen we taker the Battlestar Galactica: Behind the Red Line FreeSpace mod and slap it onto a flight sim.

We'ld have enough pilots thats for sure.

Now we need to discuss weapons.

We have railguns, coilguns we can theotetically build, we havent mastered them yet but we're close a Magnetic Accelerator Cannon can accelerate to insane speeds at insane ranges and punch a hole through a bayship without blinking an eye.

We have missiles, and plenty of them with tweaked guidance systems and kilotone nuke payloads we can crack open a bayship with ease. also if w ebuild our ships big enough we can launch hundreds of MIRV capable missiles from the batteries of our ships.

Also we can work on Kenetic cannons thode would be sweet as well.
 
Posted by Friday (Member # 8998) on :
 
I was quite excited that we finaly got to see the raptors use those awesome missile racks in a fight. I am a little puzzled by the writers' decision to make Athena imune to the disease. Keeping her infected would be a potentialy interesting plotline that they pretty much ignored.
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
It was nice to make her different from her Cylon kin in another way though. I had a thought that kind of stunned me but I will put it out anyway, what if Adamma disagreed strongly enough to have been behind what Helo did, it is the only thing that makes sense given his dropping the matter so easily.

What was that look on Lee's wife face while she was in the C&C during the raid? Concern? Pride? Surprise? It looked a bit like any of the above. Unlike many I kind of like her, she was more of a Billy girl then a Lee girl but she beat the desperate hooker hands down. Now Cassie's mom is a possible...but I think Lee is going to have to live with the wife he chose.

Remember Boxy in the first series, kind of a proto Wesley? Well in the movie premiere wasn't their a kid named Boxy running around? Where did he end up?
 
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
I am angry.

I watched one of those "the series so far" things today.

And now I need to watch this show. Like, all the time. [Mad] Damn you, sci-fi crack. This is worse than my Law and Order addiction...at least they show Law and Order almost twenty-four hours a day.

-pH
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by General Sax:
The room is outside the sub, you poor unimaginative soul.

So THAT'S what you meant when you said how strong they were made. "Roomy" referred to all the space that ISN'T already inside the sub.


I do think that the only people who would really have anything resembling the expertise to pull any of this off would be the designers and builders of modern ships and subs. Working closely with NASA, of course. Even a modern battleship is so immense that most of us have no real ability to judge the scope of such a project. The people at the naval shipyards are the only people we have with the experience in managing jobs of that scope.


Red, I would love to hear anything you can come up with from your sources regarding the differences between spacecraft and naval craft. Most of the people I knew who worked on building subs lived near my parents before my parents moved. I had a lot of friends in the Navy as well (and my Aunt was a Marine, and was Commander of the "Opposition Force" in several Wargame es exercises, with a sub as her command platform....the first woman to ever do that, according to the article about her in the paper she saved), but they were closed-mouthed about the actual specs of modern ships...

...as they should have been, of course. [Smile]


Since we have all been talking in hypotheticals....well, most of us have been, anyway...I would love to hear from other people about the differences. A lot of things have been discussed in the past as options, and if we found the Cylons knocking at our doors I think that we would suddenly find that funding isn't a problem anymore. [Smile] Some of our ideas may be very similar to what Colonial tech is during the shows time frame.....but we haven't funded most of it yet, so we don't know what works IRL yet.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
Pardon me, but can you guys kindly take the far out speculation elsewhere?

It's filling the thread and I really have no interest in speculation about what might happen if the BSG showed up at Earth. It's getting difficult to filter out the posts actually talking about current episodes of BSG. Could you maybe take the speculation to a new thread? The BSG Meets Earth thread or something? Please?
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Alcon, if we did that, then I would have to bookmark a new thread. Don't worry, I think that this topic is running out of steam. Without yet knowing what time period of Earth's history or future BSG is placed in, we are hitting the limits of what we can assume from the information that we have.

Kwea, sorry for starting the firestorm, but in the end you provided what I was looking for. As for my sources, I will bring it up with them next time we get together. Especially my niece who the aeronautics engineer. However, after reading your post, I'm thinking that because she hasn't worked on the military aircraft in question, her opinion would be only slightly more informed then ours. It's really hard to make a guess on what could be done to ship or an aircraft if you don't know the specs. I think that in the end, you are right in saying that if you already have the plans, it is going to be cheaper and easier to build from scratch. The problem that I am having with that is if those plans include building materials that we have not developed yet. If that is case, then we may be faced with retrofitting existing aircraft.

Seriously through, I did find it hard to believe that you would have had a conversation about subs in space with those you knew on the base. It just didn't seem like something that, outside of this forum, would be likely to come up. Glad to be wrong, but smiling at the fact that we aren't the only geeks that have thought about this before.
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
It is all good. I disagree with a lot of people sometimes, and a lot of the time I learn something I didn't know. If everyone agreed all the time I would be bored to tears. [Smile]


Trust me...a lot of those guys are pretty far out there, and love sci/fi. One of them was fascinated that I had met OSC, of all things, even though it was just at a book signing. [Smile] Turns out Enders Game was one of his favorite books of all time.


I have seen some of my Navy buddies almost fistfight over which Dr. Who was best, and I did see two Army soldiers fight over whether or not Heinlein's tone was deliberately overboard in Starship Troopers . [Smile]

I wish I WAS an expert in this stuff IRL. I would make a killing. [Wink]


I was also being sarcastic for some of those posts, and sarcasm doesn't translate well on line.
I probably came across stronger than I intended.


Well, until the last few posts. I meant them pretty much the way they read.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
quote:
I think she could tell that Gaius wasn't really seeing her. That he wasn't really there. I think she interpretted it as Gaius talking to god.
That was my take as well.
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
I didn't.....it looked like she thought he was speaking to her. Although it was weird, and could have been either, I suppose.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
It very well could have been the other way. That was just my initial understanding of it. It'll be interesting to see where they go with it. Both plot lines would be interesting. [Smile]
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
Is it odd that I took it both ways? When he was saying "I want to believe" and everything, I assumed she thought he was talking to their god or whatever. When he was talking about love or what not though (the latter part of it), I assumed she thought he was actually talking to her this time (something about the way she looked after he said it is what made me think this). I could be completely off and it could be straight one way or the other, but I just took it as a blend of both.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
I will have to watch the episode again to be absolutely sure, but the look on D'anna's face made me think that she thought he was talking to her.

In early interviews, they did say that D'anna was supposed to be having a crisis of faith this season.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
I guess that I am glad that no one is discussing the episode yet, as I have not had the chance to watch it.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
Me neither. I'm dling it now, I had a swim meet last night.
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
I watched it. I just didn't think there's a whole lot to discuss. Other than the stuff about what Adama did in the past, I found the rest of episode sort of boring. The new one in two weeks doesn't look much better either. Boxing? Really? *sigh*
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
Hey, I liked it. Adama's past was kinda cool, and it was neat the stuff about Bulldog. It was a nice sorta relaxing/healing episode toward the end, up until the end it felt about the usual intensity.
 
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
 
Actually, I think it's interesting because it puts a new spin on the Cylons' motives. It's completely possible that they see humans as a threat because of that incident. If that's the case, then they aren't the unprovoked aggressors we thought they were.
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
Well as I said, the Adama stuff in the past was interesting, how it tied to the Cylons and a possible reason why they may have attacked. The whole rest of the episode though I was sort of yawning. I could care less about the new guy or about what's going on with Tigh (as I've more or less written him off now). I want more on what's going on in a more global/galactic sense: what is the Battlestar group doing, what are the Cyclons doing, etc. This is just my opinion though. I could understand if other people really liked it.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I'm thrilled for the episode coming in two weeks - I wanna know what happened between Lee and Kara! I want them to kick the crap out of each other, and I want Dee to realize that Lee feels more emotions with Kara - even as friends - than he has ever shown to her! Rah rah violence!

Yeah, I haven't got much to say about last night, except I'm glad Tigh is starting to come around.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Yeah, it was a character piece. Basically filler. Not every ep can be just jam packed. It is one of the greater sides of the show is that they do still explore the human side of everything. You need moments to take your breath. I am feeling a little empty on the cylon side. I don't really get what D'anna is going through. And does anyone know if that 3 is D'anna, or if she is just a wacked out 3?
 
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Shigosei:
Actually, I think it's interesting because it puts a new spin on the Cylons' motives. It's completely possible that they see humans as a threat because of that incident. If that's the case, then they aren't the unprovoked aggressors we thought they were.

That's how I thought about it as well. Which I loved. I love it when you don't know if the villains are really villains! I was hoping that the Big Black Ops Secret(tm) would be much cooler though.

-pH
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
i liked it.
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
Me too! The reason that Galactica is so liked is because of the drama in the show, as well as all the heart pounding action. The backstory of Adama and Bulldog is exactly what makes the show so powerful. Plus the episode as already pointed out gives light to some of the motives behind why the cylons may have attacked. What was up with D'anna's dreams though, that story line is getting pretty odd. So did she momentarily toucht he hand of God before she downloaded or what. I think that's gonna be pretty cool. So now baltar is sharing his bed with both 6 and her??? [Eek!]
 
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
 
Baltar is a STUD!

He makes being bad look pretty good.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
I can't wait till we see the true face of the Cylon God. Muwhahahha!
 
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
 
Yeah, I was glad we didn't see too much of Baltar this time. His snippet was more than enough for me. Ick.

But I liked the bulk of the episode. I still can't get over Kara and Tigh as friends. How far the mighty have fallen.

Adama having to admit what he'd done to Lee was easily the best part of the episode. I loved it. And Bulldog's confusion and anger was powerful. I think this was one of my favorites.
 
Posted by Satlin (Member # 1593) on :
 
I agree that the episode as a whole was on par with the rest of the season. It tied in well with Adama's struggle with forgiving himself, which I think gives his character a lot of added depth. I thought the scene at the end when Tigh went to Adama's quarters was really well done, continuing the theme of healinig since the exodus from New Caprica.
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
Well, hmm. Kara and Tigh friends- or if not friends, then at least comrades with a sense of respect, finally, thanks to the good ole New Caprica. That's a nice change of pace.

Tigh does seem to be healing, though he claims he isn't ready to return to CIC.

If you'll forgive me, I'm still incredibly tickled at them having Helo as the XO. I want to see him do some more XO-style things, though, he's in the background in the CIC too much. (though maybe that's part of the reason Adama wants Tigh back, because Tigh ISN'T quite so much in the background, but does stuff.)

I wonder how much this revelation of Adama and the Colonies' involvment in possibly starting the war would change Major Apollo's viewpoint on the whole thing. He, too, seems to have... is it a harder edge now, or what? More experienced, more comfortable, that's it.

Oh, and don't you know about the Cylon God? It's Dirk Benedict. [Big Grin]

At least, well, that was what they planned for the end of the first season before they switched it to the whole baby thing.

BAsically, in that operahouse place, Dirk Benedict was going to appear to Baltar in a column of light and say something like "Hi. I'm God."
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
quote:
baltar is sharing his bed with both 6 and her???
Bam chuka boiw woin.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
BAsically, in that operahouse place, Dirk Benedict was going to appear to Baltar in a column of light and say something like "Hi. I'm God." [/QB]
[Laugh] [ROFL]
 
Posted by Mr.Funny (Member # 4467) on :
 
I figure they did this episode as a character piece because they used all of the SFX budget on Exodus.
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
I thought it was great the way Tigh put Bulldog down. I would have thought that Bulldog could have just sneezed and knocked Tigh out, but I guess there's more to the old buzzard than just a drunken, bitter has-been.
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
Oh to be Baltar!

As for the Cylons, who besides me finds a one kilometer boundary in space to be a bit fine? The black ops team was a click inside the boundary and snap! A Cylon shows up, If I were to do a state of the art spy mission it would be with a stealth ship with a spun up FTL, not one that I would need to clobber with a missile if the Cylon's spotted it. Also I would not tip my toe over the line, I would jump to the home world, get as much info as possible and jump out with some real Intel.

Still it did show that the Cylon's certainly were on a hair trigger and the fact that three "unknown" ships jumped in showed that they were evolving a superior military machine, it is hard to imagine that they would not have found an excuse to use it once they had a clear military advantage.

Six's mission was described as years long, I wonder just where in time the Bulldog mission falls on the time-line of Cylon infiltration.

I rather look forward to the boxing episode, I find it remarkable how many ideas they get from the old series, there was a pyramid episode, in the first series with lots of gambling and intrigue.
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
quote:
baltar is sharing his bed with both 6 and her???
Bam chuka boiw woin.
[ROFL] [Eek!] [Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
I always get annoyed when shows rewrite the past. Oh, we've been repeating for the entire series that nobody heard from the cylons in 40 years, well, that's only mostly true. [Roll Eyes]

I like Kara and Tigh as friends. I think the things they hated so much about each other were the ways they were alike. Now that they have a bond, it makes sense they'd be friends.

The boxing episode looks great! I've been waiting to get that backstory. [Smile]
 
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Amanecer:
I always get annoyed when shows rewrite the past. Oh, we've been repeating for the entire series that nobody heard from the cylons in 40 years, well, that's only mostly true. [Roll Eyes]

I didn't see it as rewriting anything. Yeah. To the general public, no one had heard from the Cylons in 40 years. But now we're finding out that clearly, a small, small portion of the military had and had kept quiet about it. I think that's awesome.

-pH
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
Part of the small portion of the military includes Bill Adama, a character that we're supposed to be intimiately familiar with. There is no way that his guilt wouldn't have affected him before this episode, and yet despite our intimacy with him, we never had a clue. I do find that to be rewriting.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Not necessarily. He said himself that up to the moment that Bulldog showed, he had told himself that they had no idea what those ships that showed up were. He had convinced himself that those ships that showed were not cylons, because if they were, then it would mean that he instigated the war.

However, you can tell that it had been bothering him for awhile. It even makes his speech at the decommissioning ceremony make more sense.

Besides the issues with the timelines, I think it interesting to know that the Fleet Admirals weren't just sitting back, content with the idea that the cylons MAY never show up.

Still, I agree with the General on this one. Why just tip your toe over the line, why not jump deep into Cylon space with a stealth ship and really get some intel. The further question goes, why the heck haven't they been doing that all along? If they were going to do some intelligence gathering, why didn't they really do some decent intel then?
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
The decommissioning ceremony speech happened before the Cylons attacked. It doesn't make sense that that's what he was referring to. The speech was pretty clearly about the guilt he felt regarding his son, as well as the lovely foreshadowing.

I know they gave an excuse with the whole him trying to believe the ships weren't cylons. But I still don't buy it. That would have been one of his first thoughts after the Cylons attacked. This story line still feels very tacked on and just irks me.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Granted that he was not referring to the attack that was about to take place, but like you said, lovely foreshadowing. I'm just saying that I don't think that his relationship with his son was the only thing bothering him. And where the ceremony was referring directly to the cylon wars and humanities mistakes, it seems like this particular failed mission would be on his mind.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
For me, it just adds greater depth to that speech and his character is all.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
I FINALLY got to see the episode, missed it on Fri. Thank gods for Mon rerun.

I thought this episode was great. Great acting great ambiance. I think they got the look of the Basestar interior down at last...makes the previous shots look almost cheesy.

And #3's dream sequence!!! Holy frack... what were those beings of light?? The Lords of Kobol perhaps??? [Big Grin]

As for the theory that Adama and the Colonial High Command instigated the attack is bum... remember the Cylons had agents on the Twelve Colonies for two years at least, a year before the failed recon mission past the boarder. #6 was dating Baltar for two (or was it three?). And it might be the Cylons were plotting this many more years. Remember Boomer's family that was killed when the Troy space colony was destroyed? It could be that the Cylons just used cyber manipulation and changed the records or mabye the Boomer modle was created to fill the gap.

Anyway, the only human who knows the truth is Baltar and he never told anyone about #6 let alone when he met her. I think the whole issue can be resolved by asking Athena.
 
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Unless the Cylons were just observing and keeping a safety measure in place just in case it was necessary...and seeing the humans shoot down one of their own in cold blood was enough to convince them of the danger...or...something.

-pH
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
I would disagree pH.
If anything shooting down their own would show their respect/fear of the boarder.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Oh my... Looks like BSG is moving to Sundays!
 
Posted by Miro (Member # 1178) on :
 
But I like my SciFi Fridays. [Frown]
 
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
 
Blah, now I have nothing to watch on Friday nights and I have to tape something on Sunday nights.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Nuts. Now I have to wait two more blasted days a week. I am very vexed. Very vexed indeed.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Man, Sunday's my homework night! Suck!
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
So, everyone, how much more damaging is a Sunday 10PM timeslot?

Which timeslots are best, and how good is BSG's new slot? Also, how good is its current slot?
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
I actually wouldn't mind a Sunday timeslot. Sunday's my homework day, but by 10 pm I'm usually ready to call it quits. And I usually have swim meets on friday night so I'm not able to watch.
 
Posted by Andrew W (Member # 4172) on :
 
I thought now was an appropriate time to post, since I'm basically killing time, waiting for 10.00 tonight when I'm going to watch the latest episode on a £750 projector with full surround sound and all those mod cons.

Nice catch on the timeline stuff whoever said that, I didn't think Adama did cause the war, but if they were infiltrating before the mission, then they were definitely planning something.

Of course Tai would take out that guy though, he's a drunk, he's an arsehole, he's irascible and wrong, but he's definitely absolutely nails. On a par with Starbuck, who's hard as, too.

I thought at the beginning of that one that one of the Raiders had defected, that would be really cool. But they're basically like attack dogs, I think, so that couldn't really happen.
How did he find them though? I know the Cylons let him escape, but, what, they know where the Galactica is, and let him steal the plans? If that's the case why don't they just all out attack and take the Galactica? Or are they trying to follow them to Earth?

Anywho, I'm waiting in serious anticipation for this one tonight, it's going to be awesome.

AW
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
Hate to break it to you, but the next episode's not till Friday. They didn't play one last week [Frown]
 
Posted by Andrew W (Member # 4172) on :
 
NO! How can that be! *Considers stabbing self to death, but realises being dead makes it harder to watch it next week*

Why would they do that? They don't want regular viewers? They're spawn of satan?

I'm rewatching the old one at the moment. No projector though. It's great but no substitute.

AW
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
New episode tonight!
[Party]
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Sci-fi.com has a scene from "The Passage" up for viewing for anyone interested. Just go to the BSG home page on Scifi.com to see it.
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
I guess they have a big chunk of history that they can flash back to now that we have skipped a year. Kara and Lee did it! Adama and Roslyn did it! What was that fruit they fermented anyway? It certainly caused a great deal of very hard partying.

Are women tougher in the Galacticaverse? Kara seemed to have little trouble fighting with the boys. Could it be Joss helped create it?
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
Or that Starbuck can kick anyone's ass. [Smile]
 
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
 
I think this last one has reached my number one spot as worst episode. It didn't advance any plots and made everyone absolute jerks with soap opera mentalities. This one never happened.
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
It was a year... things had to have happened. I think this was about putting the crew back together, more repair work on the old team. However. I am still struck at times by the resemblance of this Starbuck to Dirk Benedict in mannerism and appearance. It is jarring at times, what a job of casting and acting. It shows humility that she still follows the old character even with her new popularity.
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
I liked the episode and I agree with the General. It was an episode about repairing totured friendships and setting up future conflicts. I was surprised that the Pres. and the Admiral got busy. [Eek!] But Lee and Starbuck was inevitable, I never would have guessed that's how Starbuck got married though. [Dont Know]

Interested in next week's episode though! [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
That explains why it was so hard for Kara to call Lee when she needed antibiotics for Sam.

One thing that bothered me, though, was that the flashbacks near the end made it look as though Lee and Kara met first, when Kara was actually Zak's girlfriend, and not Lee's.

Has anyone been reading the comic, incidentally? It's unbelievable. Reads like you're actually watching the show.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
No I haven't been reading the comic. Is it canonical? I tend not to go for non-canonical stuff. As to the episode... they were both drunk out of their minds when they fracked. But I'd like to know what drove Starbuck to instantly go marry Sam. Guilt maybe? She was drunk, and didn't really love Lee... but realized she didn't completely love Sam either, but went and married him out of guilt? I'd like a little more explanation there...
 
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Maybe she realized like...she actually did care about Sam, so she ran off and married him before she could think about it too hard.

-pH
 
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
 
Forget all of the other plotlines and the cylon threesome, I want to see some wrinkled spooning. Adama and Roslin are the cutest thing in the world.
 
Posted by A Rat Named Dog (Member # 699) on :
 
I didn't assume that Adama and Roslin "got busy". It seemed like they were very close, and on the edge of romance, but lying together fully clothed, looking at the stars, doesn't say "sex" to me.
 
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
 
I figured they fell asleep under the night sky, stoned, zippers zipped and buttons buttoned. Those two belong together, and I'm hoping for a gratuitous morning after scene between the two of them before the end of season three.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Yeah, I was going to say that I wasn't sure what ep you all were watching, but I did not Adama and Roslin hook up. Not that I am opposed to it, but don't get your hopes up. Mary McDonnall said in the Q&A sessions that a romance between Roslin and Adama was unlikely, especially after regaining her office. That question was answered in part 2 or 3 I think if you want to go back and watch it.
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Alcon:
No I haven't been reading the comic. Is it canonical? I tend not to go for non-canonical stuff.

I think it is, but I'm not sure. This first arc takes place not long after Kara disobeys Adama and goes off to find Kobol.

quote:
Originally posted by Alcon:
As to the episode... they were both drunk out of their minds when they fracked. But I'd like to know what drove Starbuck to instantly go marry Sam. Guilt maybe? She was drunk, and didn't really love Lee... but realized she didn't completely love Sam either, but went and married him out of guilt? I'd like a little more explanation there...

I think she did it because she loved Lee. It made her feel vulnerable, and she couldn't take that. With Sam, she was in control, and there wasn't anything deep enough to feel threatening there. Affection, sure, and lust, but not the kind of love she felt for Lee.

I don't know if she was like that before Zak died. Maybe she loved Zak that way, and didn't want to risk losing the guy she loved again. Or maybe it was something else. But she needed to do something to protect herself against what she was feeling for Lee, and... well, she sure did it.
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by A Rat Named Dog:
I didn't assume that Adama and Roslin "got busy". It seemed like they were very close, and on the edge of romance, but lying together fully clothed, looking at the stars, doesn't say "sex" to me.

I think that Roslin definitely wants more from Adama. And I think that Adama feels something strong for Roslin, but has reservations. He comes across as a shy man who only really lets himself go when he needs to.
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
It is clear that Adama loved his wife and got burned bad and it was probably his fault. His sympathy for Saul is clear on that issue. He admires Roslin, she admires him, really they are the only 'equals' that each other has. Who else can they turn too even if it only for occasional warmpth and human contact?

I wonder if Lee and his woman are doomed to split now?
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
quote:
I wonder if Lee and his woman are doomed to split now?
Probably, I think Dee's really known what was going on all along, just didn't want to believe it. I kinda hate Lee for treating Dee the way he has. But then, after she bailed on Billy like that, I kinda have to say she had it coming to her.

And it does rather sound like we're discussing a soap opera doesn't it? That's a mite disturbing...
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
quote:
I think she did it because she loved Lee. It made her feel vulnerable, and she couldn't take that. With Sam, she was in control, and there wasn't anything deep enough to feel threatening there. Affection, sure, and lust, but not the kind of love she felt for Lee.
I completely agree. Sam is safe because there's no vulnerability, Lee is not because there is vulnerability and that scares the crap out of her.

quote:
I kinda hate Lee for treating Dee the way he has. But then, after she bailed on Billy like that, I kinda have to say she had it coming to her
Dee knew what she was getting into and yet she kept going after Apollo. Why? What would make her do that?
 
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
 
quote:
Dee knew what she was getting into and yet she kept going after Apollo. Why? What would make her do that?
Bamceps, apparently.
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
You're right.

This does sound like a soap opera now.

In space.

I suppose I need to think of a name for this.

How about a.... um... er... Star soap... no... no...

I got it!

Space Opera!

[Big Grin]

Okay, okay, I'm being silly now, but yeah, it really IS a bit disturbing.

Of course, considering all the relationship stuff from the very beginning, I think the action scenes have hidden the fact that this whole show IS a space opera.

I want to see some forwarding of the plot now. Because things now are stuck in place again, just like after Ressurection Ship, only minus the Cylons. (not that that's bad or anything.)
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
quote:
However, in a May 2004 article from Dreamwatch Magazine entitled "Starbuck: Lost in Castration" [1], Benedict harshly criticized the Re-imagined Series, citing its dark tone and supposed moral relativism:

"Re-imagining", they call it. "un-imagining" is more accurate. To take what once was and twist it into what never was intended. So that a television show based on hope, spiritual faith, and family is unimagined and regurgitated as a show of despair, sexual violence and family dysfunction.
Benedict devoted the greatest part of the article to criticizing the producers' decision to turn Starbuck into a female character, Kara Thrace (whom Benedict derisively calls "Stardoe" throughout his commentary), tying it in to what he perceived as a general anti-masculinity agenda:

One thing is certain. In the new un-imagined, re-imagined world of Battlestar Galactica everything is female driven. The male characters, from Adama on down, are confused, weak, and wracked with indecision while the female characters are decisive, bold, angry as hell, puffing cigars (gasp) and not about to take it any more.
The final passage reads:

And if you don't enjoy the show [...], it's not the fault of those re-imaginative technocrats that brought them to you. It is your fault. You and your individual instincts, tastes, judgment. Your refusal to let go of the memory of the show that once was. You just don't know what is good for you. But stay tuned. After another 13 episodes (and millions of dollar of marketing), you will see the light. You, your instincts, your judgment, are wrong. McDonald's is the best hamburger on the planet, Coca-Cola the best drink. Stardoe is the best Viper Pilot in the Galaxy. And Battlestar Galactica, contrary to what your memory tells you, never existed before the Re-imagination of 2003.
I disagree. But perhaps, you had to be there.

I was curious about where Dirk was in the new series and I found this, has anyone else seen it? Sounds a bit bitter, especially when they really have tried pretty hard to keep his Starbuck alive in Kara Thrace. I have no issue with her being a great pilot, is there a lot of this male ego bruising out there over the Galactica chicks? Wonder what they say about Joss Whedon and Charmed and all those other chick power shows?
 
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
It's disturbing why?

-pH
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
What is disturbing?
 
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by General Sax:
What is disturbing?

That people think it sounds like they're talking about a soap opera.

-pH
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
I happen to like Opera.
Mmmm.... Mozart...
 
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
 
Who is this Benedict guy and what show is he watching? Cause in the Galactica I've seen, Adama is one of the most compassionate, decisive, decent human beings I've ever seen. He makes the hard decisions, he gets things done, he wants to be a good guy, but if he has to walk into the lounge and throw his pilots on the floor, he'll step up.

Tigh I could understand the charge of morally weak. but to imply that there is anyone on the show angrier than Tigh is stretching things a bit. Starbuck comes close, but that's about it.

Helo steps up and risks everything for his wife every couple of episodes. Chief is the most vacillating of the bunch, and even he got past his fears and moved on with his life.

Yes, there are strong female characters. And they still act like women. Why is this a bad thing?

Sure, I never saw the original. Maybe that's why I'm unimpressed with Benedict's arguments. Or maybe Galactica is a great show that shows people struggling with their moral convictions in the face of fear and despair. (Anyone else find it ironic that Rosalyn was the super religious one but later authorized suicide bombings?)

The sex and dysfunction I'll give him. But since the Bill-Lee-Kara family relationship is my favorite part of the show, I don't mind the dysfunction so much.
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by AvidReader:
Who is this Benedict guy and what show is he watching?

He's bitter that his version of Starbuck is no longer the best one. Dirk Benedict's Starbuck was far and away my favorite character on the old BSG. As a matter of fact, when the new BSG came out, my first reaction was, "They made Starbuck a girl? That's crap." It wasn't until after the second season ended that I went and watched the miniseries. After that, I watched the first two seasons and got completely addicted.

Benedict apparently had a similar reaction, but much stronger, since he's the one who actually played Starbuck before. Also, he sounds like a sexist ass.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
quote:
Also, he sounds like a sexist ass.
That was pretty much my entire reaction to what he said: "Wow... does he not hear himself? He just sounds like a sexist ass!"
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
Misogynist comes to mind, he has a Hugh Heffiner generation thing going pretty strong, and Starbuck was played as a player.
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
You say tomato; I say tomahto.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Dirk Benedict is an idiot. He hasn't had a decent job since the A-Team. He should wise up and get on board. Maybe then RM and company would give him a real character to play on the current version. Look at good old Richard Hatch. Now where would the show be without Tom Zarek? Definately less interesting. Benedict could use the stretching of his acting legs like Hatch has gotten.

Besides, in the old show he was jumping in and out of bed with someone every week. Sounds like the kettle calling the pot black if you ask me.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
RM had an idea of what to do with Dirk...
Originally we were to meet the Cylon God at the end of Kobol's Last Gleaming. Baltar walks into the light and music, sees Dirk Benedict. Baltar asks "Who are you?", to which is answered "I'm God." [Smile]

And since hearing that podcast I can't help think the beings of light we saw in Diana's dream are the Lords of Kobol.
 
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
Looks like Scott Adams watches BSG

http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2006112216208.gif
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
That is the most I have laughed at Dilbert in a long time.

Man, RM and Co really need to advance the plot. We really haven't had much to dicuss with the last couple of weeks.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Kat! No!

Well... it seems the beings of light from D'Anna's death/download time are the Final Five Cylon movles. Why would the Cylons not allow themselves to remember/think about 5 of their own?

And what about this Eye of Jupiter?
 
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
So that...if....they get interrogated they can't reveal those five?

-pH
 
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
 
I'm surprised it was Kara standing there at the end mourning Kat. It was kind of nice to see them come to an understanding finally. I think in a lot of ways, Kat was a better leader than Kara. I hope she takes some of Kat with her.

My only gripe is that apparently, Helo isn't very safety concious. He didn't notice his badge had gone black and went out on another mission. Or I wonder if he did the same thing as Kat and went out anyway since there weren't enough pilots to do otherwise.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
I'm not surprised Kara was mourning her, Kat was Kara's first nugget to train. Up till the "Scar" episode they seemed to be on decent terms.

My gripe is that her past seemed a bit contrived. Or at least her response to it.
So what if she was a drug dealer before the Attack? Linking dealing drugs with helping the Cylons inflitrate the Colonies seemed a little lame. Maybe Kara was just trying to make Kat feel as bad as she possibly could.

All that matters is Humanity's survival and she is a vital part of that. Just as Adama saved Chef Tyrol in first season from the trial because "you're the most experianced non-commissioned officer we have left...you keep my birds flying...I need my birds to fly" the same goes for Kat and the other pilots. Their services are SO vital to the survival of the species that nearly anything goes to protect them.

Kat's reaction to her old lover/boss didn't seem right. Kat for one is an @$$-kicker and I don't see her putting up with that intimidation and second she, as a pilot, has so much more authority in the Fleet that whatever blackmail he tried to do would fall short. I think they could have done a better job of showing Kat's shell shock and other reasons for her suicide mission. Loosing that civ ship was the last straw for her.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Once again iTunes is taking a holiday. So here I am waiting for them to post the new episode so I can download it. They seem to be really slow this year. I don't remember them being so slow to get new episodes online like they are this year. They also seem to be having more tech difficulties this year.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
I loved the bit where Kara was visiting Kat in sickbay and suddenly started getting teary and was all "Um, I... I gotta go."
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Liked the ep, but I got to agree that the plot twist about Kat's past seemed tacked on and unnecessary. Regardless of her personal situation, I don't think that Kat would have let a 2nd ship get lost. Giving her a shady past did not make her seem any more heroic to me in the end.
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
I do not think he blackmailed her, I think he and she had sexual chemistry that she could not deny. It is true that Kat would not have left the ship behind regardless, still I do not find the past contrived, she is a hell of a pilot and she was not military, so she must have learned her chops somewhere.

They were linking her previous smuggling to the Coyotes who traffic in illegal aliens and contraband in our world. It is very possible that such a path was taken by Cylon's but really the only infiltrator who was significant in the fall of the Human defenses was Caprica Six, and I just cannot see her huddled in the hold of some cheap labor transport. Still there were Cylons in the human society and they are certainly responsible for a mosaic of information that did give the Cylons an edge over the Colonials who were in the dark as to the activities of the Cylons.

She had a black plate before she took that last trip so she was feeling a bit suicidal anyway. The loss of the ship did prolong her exposure but the question is, was she already over the line? And did she drive on because she was the best and wanted as many ships to get through as possible or was she torn with guilt and did not want to face a confession?

I think it is obvious she was and has always been driven by the guilt she feels about her possible responsibility for the fall of the colonies, and I think she desperately wanted to prove herself worthy of forgiveness.

From the standpoint of the plot Kat was superfluous, she was Starbuck II, just as good as Starbuck, (It was Starbuck who gave her Scar) so if you made a list of people who are not needed Kat would have been high on it, especially now that Starbuck is hitting her stride.

I am having trouble swallowing the situation though. I can see where a region could be too hot for the ships, though the massive radiation and solar wind displays were over the top, (but cool) but how do you get the island of calm effect? A cloud around an exploded star with some second generation stars inside might account for it but with all the radiation flying around any cloud should be glowing hot as well... oh well we get silent space battles, we cannot expect every plot to not fudge the facts a bit. Still it is a slippery slope that leads to total loss of suspension of disbelief if it continues too far.
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by AvidReader:
I'm surprised it was Kara standing there at the end mourning Kat.

Haven't you noticed that the people Kara cares about the most are the people she treats the worst?
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
She does seem to have some issues expressing her feelings in a positive way. Still they defined each other as rivals so the loss of her rival represents a huge loss in identity for Kara, maybe she was wondering who she would be now.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
quote:
Haven't you noticed that the people Kara cares about the most are the people she treats the worst?
I think that for her, it's easier to hate people then to love them because it pushes them away and makes her less vulnerable.

I mean, rather than face what she feels with apollo, she went and married another guy to hide from it.

quote:
I do not think he blackmailed her, I think he and she had sexual chemistry that she could not deny.
Honestly, I think it was a different sort of chemistry, one more akin to abuser/abusee. He had power over her and still did in that episode because of the sort of "relationship" they had before, a very toxic relationship at that. And even the strongest of women can be drawn into that awful sort of relationship. The psychology of it is incredibly complicated.

quote:
Liked the ep, but I got to agree that the plot twist about Kat's past seemed tacked on and unnecessary. Regardless of her personal situation, I don't think that Kat would have let a 2nd ship get lost. Giving her a shady past did not make her seem any more heroic to me in the end.
For some reason, I didn't see it that way. I think part of it was because of how I perceived her relationship with her former pusher. I think another part of it is that Kat had established a new identity for herself and proven herself to be, in the end, a good person. But she couldn't fully accept it and as soon as her old life was brought back, she really felt the need to prove herself even more. She didn't want anyone to see who she was before, so much so that she would rather have died then to tell the old man.

The most heroic thing she did wasn't saving the ship (yes, that was heroic, but not the most heroic), it was telling the old man about her past. That was the most heroic thing because it meant facing her worst fear: being rejected by adama.
 
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
 
quote:
Haven't you noticed that the people Kara cares about the most are the people she treats the worst?
I thought that was just men. I don't remember her talking to other women much. She never seemed to have much use for them. Makes a lot of sense, though, that the rivalry was because she respected Kat.

As for the Cylon smuggling, does that mean the Colonists still don't know it was Caprica Six and Baltar who were responsible for the destruction of the Colonies? I thought for sure they'd been nailed by now.
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
People are dropping like flies on this show, I never thought Kat would bite it before Hot Dog, I mean seriously with a handlee like Hot Dog you'd think he'd one of the first to go???

Good episode though, can't wait for next week's episode.
 
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
 
quote:
That was the most heroic thing because it meant facing her worst fear: being rejected by adama.
Not bad, mac.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I don't think Edward James Olmos will let TPTB kill off his son. [Smile]

Is anyone else bugged by the sudden switch from "Zeus" to "Jupiter"?
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
Did anybody else think Kara and Kat were about to lock lips? I swear the sexual tension was worse then with Kara and Lee by far. Battle of the Bull Dikes...
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Carrie:
I don't think Edward James Olmos will let TPTB kill off his son. [Smile]

Is anyone else bugged by the sudden switch from "Zeus" to "Jupiter"?

Maybe they're going to want to use Juno (they can't use Hera, right?).
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by General Sax:
Did anybody else think Kara and Kat were about to lock lips? I swear the sexual tension was worse then with Kara and Lee by far. Battle of the Bull Dikes...

That's not how the word is spelled, neither one of them is even slightly bi, character-wise, and as usual, you're a pig.

But yes, I did think there was sexual tension in that scene. Kara was awfully close, and there was an awful lot of energy going on between them.

But I'm gay. What's your excuse?
 
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
 
quote:
Is anyone else bugged by the sudden switch from "Zeus" to "Jupiter"?
I was. They were consistent in using Greek in all of the other allusions, maybe there is something to the Cylons using the Latin names, whereas the humans refer to the Gods in their Greek names. I hope it wasn't just sloppy writing.

Lisa, Hera is given the epithet "Cow-eyed" throughout Homer. It would make much more sense for them to refer to Hera's husband as Zeus.

[ December 10, 2006, 10:00 PM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
They switched once before; towards the beginning of season 3, Chief and Cally's baby was "baptized" in the spirit of Mars - clearly a Colonial setting. I'm thinking a strongly-worded letter is in order here...
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
quote:
But yes, I did think there was sexual tension in that scene. Kara was awfully close, and there was an awful lot of energy going on between them.

But I'm gay. What's your excuse?

I am observant. Just because the characters are not played lez does not mean the actresses do not swing that way.
 
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
 
Okay, I'm finally all done with season 2 and starting to watch Season 3. But I feel like there's a huge gap here. Laura Roslyn's in jail, they're talking about suicide bombers and Cylons controlling food rations, the Chief and Cally are married with a kid? Do I need to go back and watch those webisodes first before I go to Season 3?
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by General Sax:
Did anybody else think Kara and Kat were about to lock lips? I swear the sexual tension was worse then with Kara and Lee by far. Battle of the Bull Dikes...

[Blushing]

quote:
That's not how the word is spelled, neither one of them is even slightly bi, character-wise, and as usual, you're a pig.

But yes, I did think there was sexual tension in that scene. Kara was awfully close, and there was an awful lot of energy going on between them.

But I'm gay. What's your excuse?

[Wink]


*must resist robin williams joke*
 
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
 
It didn't seem like sexual tension to me, although their heads were so close together it looked like they were about to kiss. Actually, it kind of knocked me out of the moment because it looked like the director was deliberately positioning them that close to make it look like they were going to kiss. I don't know. Something just seemed "off" about that.

Also, neither one of them have ever given any indication they're attracted to women. And two characters fighting, getting in each others faces, and then kissing is so cliche.

Actually, for that matter, BSG hasn't really brought up too many gender issues, has it? Maybe they should do that instead of the bizarre Cylon threesome situation Baltar's in.
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
I suspect that Baltar's 'gift' is really an extra male organ, we have seen him in bed with two women so many times that I have to assume he is packing an extra gun.

I think that BSG is pretty much 'do what you like with who you like except where it violates military protocol' (or is illegal as with a child)but there is too much drinking for good morale and discipline, but with a 50/50 crew and a big civilian population sex is going to be every way that is possible.
 
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
I was disappointed when they made Starbuck straight... She'd make such a hot Butch...
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
She does anyway.
 
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
werd.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
At first I was thinking the Cylon names for the Lords of Kobol are the Roman version...but if they named Cally's baby in the name of Mars instead of Ares... mmmm... They may indeed be slacking in the continuity area. Maybe they use both names for the Gods interchangeably? But since we've never heard the Roman names before it seems doubtful.

As for the gender issue, I would love to see a gay relationship. But I would hope they would show it in passing, showing that it was totally normal and not worth pointing out.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
like in Babylon 5.
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
Though I would have liked to have seen more of that. And Ivanova was bi, anyway. She clearly fell for Marcus.
 
Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :
 
If this is happening thousands of years in our future, it would make sense that the names of the Greco-Roman gods would get blurred and conflated... these people aren't practicing the ancient Dionysian Mysteries or anything... it's a new religion.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Hear hear Blayne!
Long live Ivanova, Our Lady of the Purple Nightgown, and Talia Winters, the original sleeper agent.
 
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
Ivanova needed better taste in both women and men. Talia was blah and Marcus, while funny and sweet, and good with a minbari fighting staff, and willing to die for her, was far too furry.

Pix
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
If the BSG folk were practicing the Dionysian Mysteries, I think we'd be just as confused. [Smile]
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
I miss the page that started with the comment about wrinkled cuddling. <sigh>
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
I sort of got the impression from Adama that he knew she wasn't the real Luanne Katrain. That he'd found out some time before and didn't really care. It's not as though he had a glut of pilots.

I mean, maybe he didn't and just didn't want to hear her saying something that was obviously making her feel bad, but I wouldn't be surprised if he already knew.
 
Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :
 
Yeah, I got that feeling, too, Lisa. His question immediately after shushing her (something along the lines of "does whatever you're ashamed of tarnish what you've done?") made me feel that he either knew or suspected she wasn't who'd she'd said she was.
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
Also Adama thinks the whole war is his fault, I do not think he is going to pass judgment on many with checkered pasts who are doing the best they can to help mankind survive.
 
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
I had a nightmare last night that BSG was cancelled because everyone hated this season.

-pH
 
Posted by Friday (Member # 8998) on :
 
Wait, do people really hate this season? I've rather enjoyed it so far; maybe the plot has slowed a little bit since the season opener, but really it's pretty tough to top an episode like Exodus pt 2.

Or was that just your dream speaking?
 
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
As an aside.. I recently got the 1st and 2nd season on DVD and I like the whole thing BETTER the 2nd time through.

True story.
 
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Well, the same dream also involved running from the FBI through a forest of banana trees in search of a small biplane to take to Asia.

-pH
 
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
ph: how did you know the plane was bi?
 
Posted by Miro (Member # 1178) on :
 
*groan*
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
pH, yes, some people loathe this season. Just look on the scifi channel message boards.

There's all sorts of negative comments about it. I don't think it's really all that fair, and I've really enjoyed this season almost more than the first two, but still.
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
One thing that has to happen is dry-dock, look at those Raptors, look at the Galactica, it is getting to the point were things are not only looking used and lived in, it is getting to the point that they should hang up condemned signs and put Raptors up on cinder blocks. The Cylon's will win this thing on wear and tear alone.

Any ideas how they might get a fix up?

I had one that is kind of kooky. Lets say they catch up to some old style Cylon toaster types...

The old base star and a mining camp with a big munition dump that has just been rattling along for forty years with no word from the home-world. Galactica re-cons it and sees toasters, old style ships and all that, so they send in Sharon, she becomes imperious leader and the toasters go to work on the Fleet while the humans sip cocoa.

Of course as the fleet is getting finished the Cylon's catch up, see what they once were and in furry destroy the base...

Now that would be a cool episode...
 
Posted by Rotar Mode (Member # 9898) on :
 
Just stopping in to say I hate this show. Continue.
 
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
 
Cottle, is that you?

[ December 14, 2006, 10:40 PM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Rotar pls quickly explain in under a paragraph or make that 3 sentances why I should not kill you where you stand.
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
Glad you came by, always nice to have some fresh urine in the punch to keep the party going... Sheesh.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Ignore it. He flames, he leaves, he won't be back. If he does come back, THEN we kill him.
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
General Sax, that would actually make a very amusing episode.

I bet a lot of the "fanboys" would hate it for the silliness of it all, but even so... it'd be a great twist.

But that'd have to BSG it somehow to be darker than the straight story. I wonder how...
 
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
Is it on tonight or have they done their break for christmas like all my other shows?
 
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
 
Tonight at 9E/8C. And then they go on hiatus, I think till the end of January.
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
Having toasters walking around would likely be angsty enough. However it would be a good chance to put Sharon to the test, a chance to stress her loyalty to humanity by giving her the chance to rule and perhaps upgrade a Cylon colony. Also they could twist the evolutionary course of an isolated group of Cylons, make them twisted in some way.
 
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
quote:
I sort of got the impression from Adama that he knew she wasn't the real Luanne Katrain. That he'd found out some time before and didn't really care.
I didn't get the impression he knew...I figured that he had long since resolved himself that there were a lot of changed identities among the survivors. And that her actions redeemed anything she might have done in her past -- essentially her ultimate act of self-sacrifice was testament to a genuinely changed life. I also think that you'd have to be doggone shallow to stand in condemnation of a person who has just sacrificed their life for numerous others. And that it makes little sense to let someone in Kat's position use their last moments of life on self-recrimination.

I think that scene is one of my favorites from the entire series. I love that Adama sat with her just to talk, so she wouldn't spend her last hours alone. And with the implication that he was adopting her as a daughter. I loved it.
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
I'm noticing something interesting about the side characters in this show.

They're generally there episodes before they get any significant role, but seem to, at least in the first two seasons, to just fade into the spotlight slowly, so that I don't really notice them all that much until they become important in a few scenes later. This is people like Crashdown, the guy who, er... crashed down the Raptor onto Kobol. ( [Big Grin] ) Then I go back and see the episodes again, and there they are, in the bakcground doing their thing. I actually really like it, I think it's an awesome way of bringing people into the show. A slow fade into the spotlight.
 
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
 
Just a bunch of Wedges.
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
Wow did that cathedral look SG 1! Sharon's Baby is sick and Starbuck and Lee are in it to win it... lets watch and see what happens...
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
Nice bluff.

Galactica has no nukes.

--j_k
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
Not true, we do not know if they do or not. They have been refining fuel, they have been on a large planet for a year, it is a safe bet that they found fissionable material, and a if they have plutonium spark-plugs they can fuse helium or hydrogen to make an H bomb. I would not count on them not having nukes to back up the threat.

So no JTK it is not the Corbamite maneuver...
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
So what will Sharon do...she knows her baby is alive
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
Wow that episode seemed fifteen minutes long...
 
Posted by Dav (Member # 8217) on :
 
Ok, just have to wait 5 weeks now...
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
I thought Cloud9 was the last one, but apparently you're right.

Hmm. There really isn't much to say about this episode.

* * *

And the next season preview -- AAR? what?

--j_k
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
I actually kinda felt like this ep was really crappy. Too much Lee/Starbuck/Dee/Anders angst. And the big ending cliffhanger kinda fell flat. The show's developing too much of a pattern with it's cliffhangers.
 
Posted by Rotar Mode (Member # 9898) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
Rotar pls quickly explain in under a paragraph or make that 3 sentances why I should not kill you where you stand.

Because I'm sitting down?
quote:
Originally posted by General Sax:
Glad you came by, always nice to have some fresh urine in the punch to keep the party going... Sheesh.

Always glad to contribute, friend.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
*twitch* five weeks *twitch*
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Rotar Mode:
quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
Rotar pls quickly explain in under a paragraph or make that 3 sentances why I should not kill you where you stand.

Because I'm sitting down?
quote:
Originally posted by General Sax:
Glad you came by, always nice to have some fresh urine in the punch to keep the party going... Sheesh.

Always glad to contribute, friend.

Great. You can die sitting down too. Gentlemen, start your screaming. (The dwarf revves up the chainsaw while laughing madly in the background)
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
quote:
Just stopping in to say I hate this show. Continue.
Rotor, it's generally not considered polite or acceptable to stop in on a show discussion thread just to say you hate the show with out even listing your reasons why you hate the show. Even stopping in and saying you hate it with your reasons for hating it is borderline. We know not everyone likes the show, but we're all here cause we love it and wanna discuss it.

If you wanna discuss why you don't like the show, then sure, I guess, come on in and lay it on us. If you're just gonna come in here to sling some dung at it, then get out.
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
Sharon is certainly going to want to see her baby, she is going to want it back. Also the opening of the eye of Jupiter seems to require a chosen one to open it, so perhaps that is Hera, it looks like it is the chief though...
 
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
 
Somehow I can't see the Cylons risking losing Hera to the humans or to death by taking her to the surface. Not unless Hybrid explicitly states that Hera is the (a?) chosen one. I somehow got the impression that there are multiple chosen ones from what Hybrid told D'Anna and Baltar.

I find it very interesting that Hybrid reached out for Baltar that first time and broke from her normal repetitive chants when he and D'Anna are present. Question is, which one is Hybrid actually speaking to?

As obnoxious as it might be, I'd almost like to find out that Baltar is in fact one of the other five models, and that the reason those five are kept so secret is that because those models are (or were) in places of fairly high authority in the human hierarchy. Baltar, Adama, Roslin, Adar, the former President who was still on Caprica at the time of the attack, possibly some others. And because of the high visibility factor of those particular planted models, the Cylons have to maintain strict secrecy regarding their identities. Besides, if they tell the viewers too soon, that would blow out any big revelation the writers have planned. [Smile]
 
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
 
I don't think Adama or Roslin could be cylons. First of all, it would be a cheap trick. Second, it wouldn't make any sense that they cylons had left them in place all this time.

Do the cylons know who Hera's father is? It would be an awesome twist if it turned out that he was one of the five, and that Hera was actually 100% cylon.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
At the moment it's looking like the five models are somehow related to the five priests who created the temple. Roslin was starting to say something about them before Adama interrupted her asking about Hera. And D'Anna seems convinced she's gonna see them when she goes down there. But... how can that be possible? Humanity created the Cylons long after the 13th tribe left for Earth...
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
That would be an interesting twist if Helo turned out to be one of the five forgotten models... cause he's such an awesome well loved guy.
 
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
 
I may be completely wrong on this, but did Boomer-Sharon tell the Chief that she was pregnant as well? And I do remember for sure that Athena-Sharon told Helo that she was when they were on Caprica, although I think Helo thought that she was Boomer. If I'm right about the first, it seems awfully convenient (for the storyline) for two incarnations of the same model to be pregnant at the same time... and if that's the case, how many more Sharons might have also been pregnant and by whom?
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
quote:
I may be completely wrong on this, but did Boomer-Sharon tell the Chief that she was pregnant as well?
I have no idea where the heck you're getting that from. I have no memory of it... at all...
 
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
 
Okay, so I'm confused. [Smile] Maybe that's what I get for ramming my way through three seasons in a little over a month.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
quote:
Okay, so I'm confused. [Smile] Maybe that's what I get for ramming my way through three seasons in a little over a month.
Lol, that would do it [Smile]
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
It would make sense for the five early models to be flawed or 'insane' in some way, they are human prototypes after all so it is unlikely they would make good sleepers. Even the ones the Cylon's used are a bit eccentric.

I think that it is likely that 'God' for the Cylons is an artificial intelligence construct that is not constrained by the limitations of human size. It makes sense for such an entity to exist and for it to be in effect one being since even if doubled in size the new portion would just be a parallel processor for the original as they would network and run the same software.

If that device then discovered a need or a desire to duplicate human scale AI then it would in effect be God to them. As for the first five, they would represent the first attempt and would most likely be networked together, wow what if the 'love' that Cylon's crave so much is the networking ability that was taken away to simulate the human condition?

The question I most want answered is what is the condition of the Cylon home-world?
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
quote:
and if that's the case, how many more Sharons might have also been pregnant and by whom?
If I had a Sharon model then she would be or I would die trying.

Does she make anyone else think of the Futurama episode where Lucy Lu sex bots where almost responsible for human extinction because all the men gave up on real women? I could see where that would have been a very effective attack. It is a good thing that we are fertile with the Sharon model...
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
RM has said in interviews and podcasts that the Temple of Five and the final five Cylons are connected. Maybe the final five are original cylons from earth. Gods of Kobol maybe?
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
There a theory that is gaining some momentum on the other BSG message boards and has even been mentioned on Syfyportal and trektoday. It the theory that BSG is thousands of years in our future and that humans migrated to Kobol as a result of cylon/human wars and that the Lords of Kobol were cylons. A cylon war happened on Kobol and the humans fled to the 12 colonies.

Looks like I'm not the only one to come up with that one. Of course, just because it's out there doesn't mean that theory is anywhere close what the real backstory is going to end up being.
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
As for the Temple of the Five and the suspiciously connected nature of it, the fact that there are twelve Olympians and twelve Cylon models, etc, I can think of one thing offhand that has to be significant.

"This has all happened before, and it will all happen again."

That's got to be a hint towards what it is. There's an obvious connection, five priests who worshipped their Harry-Potteresque He Who May Not Be Named, five Cylon models who cannot be spoken of. Hmm. It's all happened before, and it'll all happen again.
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
We must reconcile the fact that we have evidence of human evolution and development on Earth, so we cannot go with the old, "Life down here began out there" we must start with Earth as the point of origin.

From there we get Kobol with its Greek style God's and its knowledge of Earth's night sky. So perhaps we have a High Greek culture achieving FTL and finding and settling Kobol.

Then things on Kobol go to hell, perhaps a war with a Cylon style foe. Twelve tribes go out but one tribe goes home, presumably arriving on Earth in time to restore the Greek Gods or be the source of them but not retaining the level of technology that they had on Kobol. This puts them back here in the last 3000 years.

So we can figure that about the same time the Colonies where founded a group of Kobol refugees returned to Earth and found it in a primitive state. However the were vastly outnumbered by those primitives and were absorbed by them in time.

Now the question is how long has it been since that? If it has been thousands of years since the founding of the colonies then that gives you time hack near the present for the Earth. If you add another thousand years beyond today perhaps at some point you will have the Galactica drop into the middle of the Hundred Planets empire of Earth...

I do not like that so much as I like the idea of the drama being played out today, with the possibility of ten years of SG1 style episodes of the Earth fighting the Cylons in a desperate battle.

Plus it is a more reasonable time-line given the facts we have to work with...
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
*** SIDE NOTE ***

You can buy the Classic Series of BSG on iTunes now.

Craziness. I may buy the old series and compare it to the new one in the realm of characters and story lines??
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
Story lines? the RBSG is superior, is actually more serious, and takes the whole apocalyptic thing to its conclusion.

Characters? Starbuck is apparently somewhat similar- just darker and slightly more feminine.

Apollo? Different, yeah. Quorum of Twelve? Inept and stupid, unlike Roslin.

There is more RBSG than OBSG. Honestly, I think the new one is the best tv show currently on. And I think the plot idea is a very good one. The old one was good for its time, but its time has passed and its been supplanted.

I shall always consider the Reimagined Battlestar Galactica as the real one.

Kinda like I prefer Ultimate Spiderman to regular Spiderman.

Actually, the Ultimate Marvel thing is done in much the same vein as RBSG. Darker, modern, etc. Very fascinating stuff.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
quote:
So we can figure that about the same time the Colonies where founded a group of Kobol refugees returned to Earth and found it in a primitive state.
Atlantis anyone?
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
That is my thought, or perhaps they where the Olympians, on whom the greek myths were based.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
"If I'm a Cylon, you're really screwed." —Bill Adama, first season of NuBSG.
 
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
 
Roslon can't be a cylon because of the whole cancer thing. Remember that she was cured because of the Cylon half of the blood from Hera.

Adama's personal history goes back too far back for him to be a Cylon I think. (unless maybe they had Skin-jobs during the FIRST war, but I highly doubt that)

I don't think Baltar is going to be a Cylon... that would come too close to absolving him of his crimes, and I think the makers want us to hate him at the end. That would be a lot harder to do if you look at it as him just playing his part.

I could see Starbuck being a Cylon.

<.< Maybe BSG started with The Matrix. Morpheus founded Kobol!
 
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
 
I think that the last five types are going to be very scarce, so I do not think that many would have ended up in the Fleet.

As for Baltar being a Cylon, it is a puzzle, the projecting of Caprica 6 and all the rest suggests he has abilities that the Cylons have and his instability and genius might indicate that he is an early model, but he eliminated himself as a Cylon early in his testing I assume. Maybe the first generation of Cylon Skin-jobs were not perfect, perhaps he is a pre production model.
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ReddwarfVII:
RM has said in interviews and podcasts that the Temple of Five and the final five Cylons are connected. Maybe the final five are original cylons from earth. Gods of Kobol maybe?

Wouldn't it be funny...

Just because humans created the Cylons doesn't necessarily mean that the Cylons didn't create us as well. Maybe the final five went back in time and engineered mankind in order that we would create them.

"...and go 'round and 'round and 'round in the circle game..."
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by General Sax:
As for Baltar being a Cylon, it is a puzzle, the projecting of Caprica 6 and all the rest suggests he has abilities that the Cylons have and his instability and genius might indicate that he is an early model, but he eliminated himself as a Cylon early in his testing I assume. Maybe the first generation of Cylon Skin-jobs were not perfect, perhaps he is a pre production model.

A factory second.
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
Yeah, I thought it was odd that there were five remaining cylon models yet to appear and then they find the Temple of Five. Should make for an interesting end to the cliff hanger.
 
Posted by Kasie H (Member # 2120) on :
 
Helo can't be one of the five remaining cylons. He and Sharon had a hybrid baby. That means one is human, one is cylon, and we already know which one is cylon.
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
I should have known better than to watch it. I knew it was the last ep for over a month, and I knew they were going to give us cliffhangers, but I was weak, and I watched it.
 
Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :
 
What if the BSG humans are descended from synthetic humans created on Earth? They flee persecution or something, found the 12 colonies, forget they are synthetic, create Cylons...

Probably not what's going on, but it would be a twisted way to go...
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
For those of you wondering about the whole messing with the names of the Gods and why the change up between Zeus/Jupiter thing. Listening to the podcast for the ep RM basically stated that they are pretty much just playing loose with all of the names. I would bet that eventually they're are just going to let it be known that all of the Lords of Kobol are know by both their Greek and Roman names. Maybe RM and co will give a reason later for this or maybe this is just one of those details that they just don't stress over.

For this ep, he basically said that the reason for the Eye of Jupiter was that it sounded cooler and not as geeky as Eye of Zeus.

Oh and for those of you that are not listening to the podcasts, you are really missing out. They give great insight and if you listen to them after you have already seen the Ep, then they are spoiler free.
 
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
 
BSG marathon on SciFi right now. I'm catching up on any shows I've missed this season so far.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
I agree that all BSG fans should listen to the podcasts. [Smile]

As for some saying they dislike this season, I for one love it. There are some points that make me roll my eyes, but the first 6 episodes of third season are some of the best TV ever.
I think episode "Rapture" is my favorite of the episodes after "Exoduse pt. II". "Eye of Jupiter" is right there too.

I got a better look at the Five at Battlestar Wiki and they really do resemble the beings of light from the original series.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
Telp, I'm with you on that. I love this season as well (as does nathan and our friend marissa who joins us to watch BSG on fridays).
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
So thanks to my lovely DVR, I've just gotten all caught up. I got busy the past few months and kept missing Battlestar. I fall in to the loving this season crowd. While the Lee/Kira think is rather soap operaish, it's also completely in line with both of their characters. I absolutely believe it.

One thing that I kept thinking of, was how is everybody not pregnant? Was one of the ships carrying condoms as its cargo or something? If not, I'd think they would have ran out a long time ago.
 
Posted by Michiel (Member # 7649) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ReddwarfVII:
There a theory that is gaining some momentum .... It the theory that BSG is thousands of years in our future and that humans migrated to Kobol as a result of cylon/human wars and that the Lords of Kobol were cylons. A cylon war happened on Kobol and the humans fled to the 12 colonies.

Looks like I'm not the only one to come up with that one. Of course, just because it's out there doesn't mean that theory is anywhere close what the real backstory is going to end up being.

It's funny that no one has mentioned in this whole thread the paralles between Mormonism and BSG. The creator of the original series, Glen A. Larson, was a member of the LDS Church. The influence of Mormon religion on the original BSG series is well-documented, e.g.
http://www.michaellorenzen.com/galactica.html
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billotto/Mormon_N_BSG.html

The re-imagined BSG obviously draws on the original and so on its Mormon theology.

I think is mainly relevant because of Kobol. Kobol is obviously what Mormons refer to as Kolob:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolob

Kolob in Mormon theology is "the nearest star unto the throne of God". So, life did begin on Kobol. It didn't begin on Earth -- we on Earth, therefore, must descend from the humans of Kobol.

This is relevant mostly, I think, for the speculation about Earth. In the miniseries it is stated explicitly that the thirteenth tribe left Kobol "early".

[ December 30, 2006, 11:04 PM: Message edited by: Michiel ]
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
quote:
There a theory that is gaining some momentum on the other BSG message boards and has even been mentioned on Syfyportal and trektoday. It the theory that BSG is thousands of years in our future and that humans migrated to Kobol as a result of cylon/human wars and that the Lords of Kobol were cylons. A cylon war happened on Kobol and the humans fled to the 12 colonies.

Looks like I'm not the only one to come up with that one. Of course, just because it's out there doesn't mean that theory is anywhere close what the real backstory is going to end up being.

But how can this be since Cylon robots were created by the Twelve Colony Humans in the past century?
I think it's more likely that the Twelve Models are based off the Lords of Kobol, not the other way around.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
The lost episode!
[Big Grin]
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
LOL!!! That was hilarious Telp! Thanks for sharing! [Big Grin]
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
[ROFL]
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Ok... how are we going to get our fix till Jan 21??

Well I've found a way!

For your viewing pleasure, cool songs set to BSG:

Mitternacht
The Rose
Minstrel Boy

This last one made me cry, alot.
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
Is it on yet? Is it on yet? Is it on yet? Is it on yet? Is it on yet? Is it on yet? Is it on yet? Is it on yet? Is it on yet? Is it on yet? Is it on yet? [Frown]
 
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
 
"The re-imagined BSG obviously draws on the original and so on its Mormon theology."

The New BSG is so different from the original that I don't even consider them the same. It draws on the Mormon Theology at such a distance that you can't compare the two without completely twisting both the old and the new concepts beyond recognition. I gave up talking about the New BSG and Mormon Theology relationships because they are incompatible (and practically non-existant).
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
I would agree. The similarities left are now very basic in their realization. You could say that they are now so basic that theological stories from which some of the structure of BSG comes from has reverted back to their biblical roots in Juedo-Christianity. What structure I see left in the current BSG seems to me to come more strongly from the Bible than any particular bits of Mormon doctrine. However, not just the bible, but RM and company are also grabbing things from lots of different bits of Mythology.

That's one of the reasons I hold to my BSG is taking place thousands of years in Earth's future theory. The religious aspects of the show have a such a mixture of many forms of mythology that I think would naturally happen over many thousands of years.


(Spoiler Warning!!) On a different topic, did anyone else see the hi-res version of the picture of the final five with Deanna in the middle? I'm issuing a spoiler warning on this one just in case you want to keep yourself totally ignorant.

If you zoom in on the hi-res version of the picture, you can make out the faces of the five very clearly and for what it's worth, I did not recognize any of them. That could mean that we are eliminating Baltar as a possible cylon. But it also doesn't have to mean anything either. Could be that the shot was never meant to be viewed that close, so there was no need to shoot the scene with the actual actors that will be portraying the final five for real. Especially if they have not fleshed out the characters enough to actually cast the actors that would be portraying them for real.

Although I am pretty that BSG has finished filming their entire season by now. So it would really depend at what point that picture was taken in the process of the story development and casting of the final five. The picture is from the next ep, so it could have been taken very early on, before the real actors were cast.
 
Posted by Michiel (Member # 7649) on :
 
I read this on the BSG forum on scifi.com and I thought it was kind of neat, so I thought I should share it with you all.

The "Eye of Jupiter" that is central to the BSG's mid-season cliff-hanger finale is present as an artwork on the wall of Starbuck's apartment on Caprica, which we saw in Episode #202 - "Valley of Darkness".

Picture:
http://forums.scifi.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=1245
and here is the "Eye of Jupiter" again
http://forums.scifi.com/uploads/monthly_12_2006/post-2916395-1166395068.jpg

Lot of further speculation on its meaning here:
http://forums.scifi.com/index.php?showtopic=2258006
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Very interesting. However, I would say that if they were going to do a Starbuck connection to the eye, it would have been her instead of the chief to discover the temple. I would say that because of her religious fanatic and abusive mother, it doesn't surprise me that a painting of a religious artifact would adorn her walls. However, I will be interested to see of the BSG writing staff make anything of it. Could just be one of those throwaway moments for the fans.

Speaking of the eye, any ideas on what it is exactly? Looking at the drawings of the eye, the way the temple of five is designed, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that a beam eminates from the temple itself and literally "points" the way to earth, or points to the next marker.

Also, something for everyone to consider, if there wasn't a need to hide the way to earth from something, why didn't the 13th tribe leave a map instead of clues? That satellite marker that the cylons found seemed designed to stop cybernetic lifeforms from following the path. Was the 13th tribe just trying to find earth or were they fleeing? It's obvious that there was a war on Kobol that necessitated the human survivors to leave and travel to the 12 colonies. It does not seem too far a stretch of the imagination to assume the reason they were fleeing was a destruction of Kobol similar to what happened to the 12 colonies. Kobol's lack of recognizable structures looked exactly like what I would think a world that has fully recovered, but remained uninhabited, would look. Kobol had vast cities of high techology. Where did the buildings go? Why did it look like a jungle again?

Also, why did the 13th tribe flee to Earth anyway? Why did they even know about this place called earth in the first place? Does anyone know if they have answered that question on the show? Remind me if they have because at the moment I can't think of the answer if they did.

Edit: I meant to say that the lack of distinguishable buildings on a world that once was very heavily populuated to me suggests that it is a world that has recovered from nuclear war. So a similar thing happened on Kobol that happened to the 12 colonies.

[ January 08, 2007, 04:29 PM: Message edited by: ReddwarfVII ]
 
Posted by Michiel (Member # 7649) on :
 
I guess those are the main Questions!

But the evidence in the series so far seems contradictory.

In the Miniseries, the priestess said that the Thirteenth Tribe left Kobol "in the early days", i.e. long before the Exodus of the other 12 tribes.

On the other hand, in Kobol's Last Gleaming the following exchange occurs:

Elosha: How old are the ruins?
Billy Keikeya: Well, we won't know for sure until we send a ground team, but the initial estimates have it on the order of approximately 2,000 years.
Elosha: That's around the time the thirteen tribes first left Kobol.

see also
http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Sacred_Scrolls
http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Earth
http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Kobol
 
Posted by Michiel (Member # 7649) on :
 
PS: I so hope that the writers take this show as seriously as we do...

It would be horrible it falls prey to the X-Files Syndrome, where a lot of hints lead to nothing because the writers themselves have no idea what the "truth" is.

If BSG wants to take itself seriously as a work of art, and not just be a commercial product, it should not go on forever. At most one more season.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
quote:
If BSG wants to take itself seriously as a work of art, and not just be a commercial product, it should not go on forever. At most one more season.
I disagree. If it wants to take itself seriously it needs to tie up plot lines. That doesn't mean it has to end, it just has to make new plot lines. Even if they make it to earth, there's no reason for the show to end. I'd love to see how the characters mix with earth and how earthlings respond to the cylon threat.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Good catch on the Eye in Kara's apartment!
I could be just a coincidence...but if they do tie it in I'll be very impressed. [Smile]

What do you guys think about the star that is about to go nova?
There seems to be a connection with that and the other events goin on.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Hey added to what I said above, wouldn't it make sense that the 12 tribes would settle 12 different worlds after fleeing Kobol. Same concept as in the Ender's Game series, specifically in Children of the Mind. Spread humanity out to so many worlds and that it would be impossible to complete eliminate the species. Problem was that they stopped at 12 worlds.

Also, what does everyone think about the idea that when humanity left Kobol that FTL had not been discovered yet or was only in its infant stages? The cylons are able to make further FTL jumps than the human fleet is. Why? If FTL has been around for two centuries, don't you think that FTL tech would have been perfected by this point? Perfected meaning that no new advances in the tech is possible.

[ January 08, 2007, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: ReddwarfVII ]
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
There's an article about BSG over at the Chicago Tribune, including Q&A with Ron Moore and David Eick. Semi-spoiler warning.
 
Posted by Michiel (Member # 7649) on :
 
Thanks for posting that, Lisa. I just wanted to say it includes pretty big spoilers (even if only hinted at) --so if you really don't want to know anything, don't read it!
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ReddwarfVII:
Also, what does everyone think about the idea that when humanity left Kobol that FTL had not been discovered yet or was only in its infant stages? The cylons are able to make further FTL jumps than the human fleet is. Why? If FTL has been around for two centuries, don't you think that FTL tech would have been perfected by this point? Perfected meaning that no new advances in the tech is possible.

I'm sure that the Humans fleeing Kobol had FTL. Whether or not their tech was higher or not is impossible to tell, and not really important at this point. What is most likely is that when they colonized the Twelve Worlds, just like on New Caprica, they had near loss of that high technology, as high tech can only be maintained by a large industrial base which was now gone.

As for the modern Twelve Colonies they had a much higher technology prior to the Cylon War, which they gave up out of necessity fighting the machines. That taboo continued for 40 years, weakening along the way with the fear of the past passing away with time, leading up to using advanced computer networks again.

Two reasons the Cylon jump drives are better:
One, the Colonials had no need/incentive to advance FTL jump drives past the point of jumping around their own solar system(s).
Two, the Cylons by their vary nature as machines would evolve technologically much more quickly.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Lisa! How could you! Must. not. read!
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
Heh.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Telperion the Silver:
quote:
Originally posted by ReddwarfVII:
Also, what does everyone think about the idea that when humanity left Kobol that FTL had not been discovered yet or was only in its infant stages? The cylons are able to make further FTL jumps than the human fleet is. Why? If FTL has been around for two centuries, don't you think that FTL tech would have been perfected by this point? Perfected meaning that no new advances in the tech is possible.

I'm sure that the Humans fleeing Kobol had FTL. Whether or not their tech was higher or not is impossible to tell, and not really important at this point. What is most likely is that when they colonized the Twelve Worlds, just like on New Caprica, they had near loss of that high technology, as high tech can only be maintained by a large industrial base which was now gone.

As for the modern Twelve Colonies they had a much higher technology prior to the Cylon War, which they gave up out of necessity fighting the machines. That taboo continued for 40 years, weakening along the way with the fear of the past passing away with time, leading up to using advanced computer networks again.

Two reasons the Cylon jump drives are better:
One, the Colonials had no need/incentive to advance FTL jump drives past the point of jumping around their own solar system(s).
Two, the Cylons by their vary nature as machines would evolve technologically much more quickly.

I hear what you are saying Temp, but they still had a couple of thousand years until the Cylons came around. The info about the Caprica series confirms that cylons weren't created until about 50 years prior to BSG. Even though they would have had to start from scratch like they did on New Caprica, the length of time between to me makes it hard to believe that established tech would not be further along than it was at the time of the Cylon Wars. Also, why no exploring? BSG got to Kobol from the 12 colonies in a relatively short amount of time and FTL jumps. Plus, Starbuck took the Raider back to Caprica from near Kobol in a single jump. That means the improved jump capability of the cylons would put Caprica within one or two jumps of Kobol. Even with the FTL's in the Raptors, Kobol was only like 12 or something jumps away from Kobol. Wait, less than that because the Fleet had left Kobol and gone further away before Starbuck's rescue mission back to Caprica. Now if what happened on Kobol is similar to what happened to the 12 colonies and humanity was fleeing cylons bent on their destruction, it would seem to me that Kobol and the colonies were way too close to one another if FTL was an established tech.

I don't argue your points about the cylons advancing faster than the humans, but given the time difference of two to three thousand years between the exodus from Kobol and the exodus from the colonies, I find it difficult to swallow that established tech at the time of the first exodus would not have been nearly perfected by the time of the second.

Now as further evidence to that arguement, they do seem to have perfected ship design, living in space, versatility and artificial environment replication (including really effective artifical gravity). It seems to me that an abnormal number of ships are very well suited for long term service in deep space without the resource of a planet within a reasonable proximity. That seems to be a general design basic throughout much of the fleet. Alot of ships were fairly easily coverted into long term living quarters when needed. In a society where travel is mostly instantaneous, why bother? Unless that is a design basic held onto from a pre-FTL time. And that holdover would have been exponentially increased and ingrained in ship designers if there was a time that the very existance of humanity nearly came to an end because they had to flee in ships that were not ready for long term space travel and did not easily convert to accomodate the trip.

Plus, why would have they developed FTL while on Kobol. Humans lived with the Gods and those Gods cared for those humans as pets or something. What need would they have for exploring space. And if the inhabitants of Kobol came from Earth, it's likely that they came in generation ships with the intention of never returning. Especially if they were fleeing Cylon type wars on Earth. Again, if they were to never return, what need would be created for humanity to discover and then develop FTL?

So the humans fled earth in generation ships with the benevolent earth Cylons and landed on Kobol. Over the course of the space flight and their time on Kobol, the humans began to worship the earth cylons as Gods because their advanced existance and those cylons accepted the worship of the humans (reluctantly at first). They accepted the worship because they knew that they were a more perfect creation than the flawed humans. For a time on Kobol, all was peachy keen and space exploration tech was not actively developed because no one really had any intention of going anywhere. Then the gods began to war with the one that wanted it all and the remaining tribes of humans were forced to flee or face extinction, but in ships that were not equipped to travel long distances in deep space. They knew of the worlds of the twelve colonies from what little exploration had been done and knew that they could make to them because they were close to Kobol. Perhaps only a decade or so in space instead of the generations it took to get to Kobol from Earth. However the 13th Tribe took one of the old generation ships used to find Kobol (maybe the only one or the only one remaining?) when humanity came from earth The tribe decided to make the trip that would take several generations and flee back to the birthplace of humanity.

Because humanity took all of the available ships, the gods of Kobol were left there to fight their war, stranding on a dying planet. Those that survived the war on Kobol, the final five, somehow put themselves into hibernation until the planet has time to heal from the nuclear war. A thousand or so years later, they come out of their sleep and decide to follow their pets into the stars. It takes them many, many years to construct a ship that will carry them to the colonies. Due to the destruction on the planet in the war, they have to start from scratch, but they do have time on their side.

When the final five arrive in the colonies, they find they are no longer living breathing gods to the humans they once ruled, but simply figures of myth and legend. Added to that, humanity has strayed very far from the system of beliefs that the Gods of Kobol taught them. They wander among the humans growing more bitter and angry. Secretly they help influence the advancement of techology to point the discovery of FTL, military ships cabable of indefinate time in space, and finally, artifical life. When the first cylons gain sentience, they act and influence the artifical slaves to rise up and destroy their masters. They fail and when the cylons leave the colonies, so do they. The human cylons are created in their own image and the cyle of time nears its completion as they plan the ultimate and final solution to the human problem.

Also, one of the final five is the one on Kobol that wanted to rule all the gods. It was through him that the final five survived those thousands of years. He helps to create the Caprica born cylons concept of God and the belief in one god.

Okay, that was long winded, but I feel much better.

[ January 12, 2007, 03:42 AM: Message edited by: ReddwarfVII ]
 
Posted by Michiel (Member # 7649) on :
 
This is simply brilliant! I really mean that, this is *brilliant*.

I don't know where you came up with this, but either you have somehow guessed exactly what the story will eventually turn out to be....or you should email this to Ron Moore immediately, because it is what the story ought to be!!!
 
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
 
"It seems to me that an abnormal number of ships are very well suited for long term service in deep space without the resource of a planet within a reasonable proximity. That seems to be a general design basic throughout much of the fleet"

I find this argument rather questionable. First, what number of ships survived vs. the number that actually existed before the cylon attack? We are seeing at best a point 1 percent amount of space ships. Second, the first show implied that not everyone could be saved because not all (a sizeable number?) ships had the FTL capability.
 
Posted by Michiel (Member # 7649) on :
 
Red Dwarf: you'll remember, of course, that the first time they use the FTL, in the Miniseries, they're concerned because they haven't used it for 40 years.

I wonder why there was such a taboo on its use.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Occasional:
"It seems to me that an abnormal number of ships are very well suited for long term service in deep space without the resource of a planet within a reasonable proximity. That seems to be a general design basic throughout much of the fleet"

I find this argument rather questionable. First, what number of ships survived vs. the number that actually existed before the cylon attack? We are seeing at best a point 1 percent amount of space ships. Second, the first show implied that not everyone could be saved because not all (a sizeable number?) ships had the FTL capability.

quote:
Originally posted by Michiel:
Red Dwarf: you'll remember, of course, that the first time they use the FTL, in the Miniseries, they're concerned because they haven't used it for 40 years.

I wonder why there was such a taboo on its use.

Both are good points. Granted I am making quite a few assumptions here and taking a few leaps of the imagination. However, I think there's a lot of evidence within the cultures represented in the show that support much of what I am thinking.

Or not. I'm not RM and I haven't read the show's bible. But it is fun to talk about.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Michiel:
This is simply brilliant! I really mean that, this is *brilliant*.

I don't know where you came up with this, but either you have somehow guessed exactly what the story will eventually turn out to be....or you should email this to Ron Moore immediately, because it is what the story ought to be!!!

BTW, thanks for that. However, if what you said turned out to be true, then I have just ruined the show for everyone that posts on Hatrack.

So, just in case, I would like to offer up front my sincerest of apologies if I were to end up being right and spoiling it for the rest of us.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Michiel:
Red Dwarf: you'll remember, of course, that the first time they use the FTL, in the Miniseries, they're concerned because they haven't used it for 40 years.

I wonder why there was such a taboo on its use.

Sorry that I keep posting. One thought on that. Maybe they were concerned because Galatica's FTL had not been used in 40 years or they just hadn't plotted the jump to Ragnar in 40 years. I don't know, I would have to go back and watch that scene in the mini-series to be able to really address that thought. Time to pull out the DVD's I guess.
 
Posted by Michiel (Member # 7649) on :
 
No, I think they said that no one had used the FTL for 40 years, i.e. since the war.

This is strange. It needs to be explained somehow. The stranger thing is that so many of the smaller ships did have FTL capabilities, would all of these ships have been 40 years old already?
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I'm pretty sure it was Galactica's FTL drive that hadn't been used.
 
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
 
But, wasn't the Galactica's FTL drive used during a Cylon recon mission bfr the attack?
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
No that was the ship that Adama was on before the Galatica.
 
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
 
I don't think the other ships in the fleet are all that well equipped for sustaining human life long term. After all, when Galactica's food supplies became contaminated, the whole fleet was starving. That says to me that the whole fleet is dependent on Galactica's food and water stores, and perhaps oxygen too, though I'm not sure about that so much.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
There was that episode from season 1, "Water," in which we were told that while a good portion of the ships in the RTF are dependent on Galactica for water (such as the Astral Queen), not all of them are (I'm guessing the greenhouse ship isn't).
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Michiel:
Red Dwarf: you'll remember, of course, that the first time they use the FTL, in the Miniseries, they're concerned because they haven't used it for 40 years.

I wonder why there was such a taboo on its use.

There was no taboo on it's use. And by the way, in the Miniseries they said they had not used the jump drives for 20-25 years. Galactica represented Caprica so after the war it stayed around its dedicated world with no reason to visit other distant locations that would take FTL to reach.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
quote:
Now as further evidence to that arguement, they do seem to have perfected ship design, living in space, versatility and artificial environment replication (including really effective artifical gravity). It seems to me that an abnormal number of ships are very well suited for long term service in deep space without the resource of a planet within a reasonable proximity. That seems to be a general design basic throughout much of the fleet. Alot of ships were fairly easily coverted into long term living quarters when needed. In a society where travel is mostly instantaneous, why bother? Unless that is a design basic held onto from a pre-FTL time. And that holdover would have been exponentially increased and ingrained in ship designers if there was a time that the very existance of humanity nearly came to an end because they had to flee in ships that were not ready for long term space travel and did not easily convert to accomodate the trip.
Or, that FTL jumping takes alot of Tillium and is very very expensive, so if you can make the journey without jumping all the better. In the Miniseries Roslin's ship took the slow conventional journey of two hours to Galactica instead of jumping.

If the Twelve Colonies were all in the same solar system then building ships with long range living abilities so they have the option of conventional or FTL is explained easily. Also the Colonies had many mini-colonies, stations, mining sites, etc that non-FTL ships were built too.

I doubt that some long forgotten memory of the exodus from Kobol, that had now become religion, influenced the economics of ship design. Ships of any kind, in the water or in space, are designed only for function and to be cost effective, ie do the job they were built to do well and as cheap as possible.

The Fleet, thankfully, has a Tillium refinery ship with them and a many year supply, "Hand of God", so cost is not longer a problem and the only thing holding them back is the life span of the FTL drives.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
quote:
So the humans fled earth in generation ships with the benevolent earth Cylons and landed on Kobol. Over the course of the space flight and their time on Kobol, the humans began to worship the earth cylons as Gods because their advanced existance and those cylons accepted the worship of the humans (reluctantly at first). They accepted the worship because they knew that they were a more perfect creation than the flawed humans.
You're assuming that the Lords of Kobol were Cylons, or a Cylon-type human creation. It could very well be that the Gods were like the Vorlons of Babylon 5 or the Beings of Light from the original Galactica series. A hyper advanced alien race that would resemble gods/angels to us primitive humans. As it is said, any significantly advanced tectnology/science will always be confused for magic.

I prefer to think that the Lords of Kobol are of the Vorlon persuasion...but considering the whole Eternal Return/Cycle of Time thing they have going on I won't be surprised if they have the Final Five/Lords of Kobol being an ancient Kobol version of the living machines we know as the Cylons.

If that's the case, then the Cylons from the Twelve Colonies bumped into or were found by the Final Five. The Five influenced Cylon evolution, telling them to build humanoid models based off their on dead friends from Kobol.

OH! Brainstorm! Remember at the end of "Eye of Jupiter" we hear Laura quoting scripture about the Temple of Five, built to honor the Five that worshiped the One. THAT'S how the Cylons got their religion! [Eek!]

Reddwarf, I think you may be on to something.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Ok ok... now if we go along with the idea that the Final Five are the surviving Lords of Kobol who were infact an ancient Kobolian version of the Cylons who then influenced the real Cylons to become like the Kobol versions of old... then who is this One that they worship?? The Cylon god, sure... but what is it?

I was operating under the idea that the Cylon God was the fallen 13th Lord of Kobol that Elosha talked about way back in 1st Season. Could it be that there were 13 models and one of them decided to take over, thus the war on Kobol began. So the Final Five were allied to the rebel model perhaps? They taught the Cylons who in turn created their own religion out of it. It might explain why the Cylons broke the peace treaty to exterminate Humanity if their religion is based off a rebel Kobol version of themselves that wanted to rule over Humans.

But why would the 13th Tribe build a temple to the Five who worshiped the One if that One was evil?
Hmm...

And we can't forget that there are strange forces at work that cannot be explained by normal means. We have the visions and prophecies of Roslin, Number Six, Leoben, and the Oracle on New Caprica that have all come true. SOMETHING is going on.
 
Posted by Michiel (Member # 7649) on :
 
I think Reddwarf is on to something because the "Gods"/"Lorfs of Kobol" are the one big thing that is really in need of a -naturalistic- explanation. This series takes itself quite seriously, and the audience does not believe there is a divinity called Zeus or one called Athena, who is divine but commits suicide. Nonetheless, humans on Kobol experienced some kind of beings that they worshipped as Gods. Now, in one of the episodes, I can't remember even what season, Balthar asks six whether cylons age. Remember also that Six is so surprised by/interested in the human baby in the beginning of the Miniseries. Both things suggest that the Cylons do not age and never were babies. We also know that cylons can "die" but have superior skills to regular humans. Synthetic humpoids of the Cylon-type, with superior knowledge/technology, would meet all criteria for the Lords of Kobol. It is one of the best explanations out there and I personally think Reddwarf must be right because of the heavy emphasis on the "recurrence of the same"-theme.

The exact details about ships etc. are more speculative. There are other plausible explanations for the FTL phenomenon.

What is interesting is the tie-in with Earth. Obviously there is room for a connect with the Atlantis-myth. But since we have the same names of the Gods, there must be some obvious connection. Either the names of the Greek gods were the sources of the names of the Lord of Kobol, i.e. they were here first and Atlantis developed a high-tech civ that went all the way to Cylonhood before it was destroyed, OR human life didn't originate on Earth but originated on Kobol ("the nearest star to the Gods", in Mormon theology) and it was the humans who left for Earth who brought the names of these Gods to earth. It ties into timing, does this series take place a long time before our own time, or simulatenously, or in the distant future?

As for the Cylon God. I don't think we'll be told who he is.I don't think the Cylon God is a Wizzard of Oz type character who will be revealed to us. I think I heard Ron Moore say this somewhere explicitly. The Cylon God may simply be the God of all monotheistic beliefs. If you belief in God, as many audience members do, no naturalistic explanation for the one God of the Cylons is needed.

By the way, Reddwarf, you should really post your reflections on the SciFi BSG Forum.
 
Posted by Michiel (Member # 7649) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ReddwarfVII:
quote:
Originally posted by Michiel:
This is simply brilliant! I really mean that, this is *brilliant*.

I don't know where you came up with this, but either you have somehow guessed exactly what the story will eventually turn out to be....or you should email this to Ron Moore immediately, because it is what the story ought to be!!!

BTW, thanks for that. However, if what you said turned out to be true, then I have just ruined the show for everyone that posts on Hatrack.

So, just in case, I would like to offer up front my sincerest of apologies if I were to end up being right and spoiling it for the rest of us.

No, you haven't. We're smart people, we're thinking about this all the time anyway! And we won't know until the exact moment that everone else will know, i.e. when shown on screen!

The speculation is fun because it makes the story serious!

And if I read that interview accurately, it is by no means clear if there will be even a Season 4 so we may never know where Moore wanted to take us!
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
I hope there's a season 4. There had better be.

I want to see where these people want to take us. In a movie or television show (God, I think of BSG more as a movie than a tv show. A really long, really epic movie. It's shot like one, at least.) the storyteller takes the audience for a ride. A sort of "let me show you something."

I want to see this something very, very badly.
 
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
 
quote:
I hope there's a season 4. There had better be.
My mother, who remembers when the original series of BG was cancelled said 'all this has happened before'.

It would be sickening if there isn't another series, but I'm hopeful we'll at the very least get to find out the rest of the story. Especially after all the support for Firefly, which only ran for a few weeks.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Michiel:
By the way, Reddwarf, you should really post your reflections on the SciFi BSG Forum.

Thanks. I won't because I don't like the Scifi forums. Too hard to navigate and the Hatrack forums are a much friendlier evironment. However, feel free to quote anything you like of mine over there.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Just so you all know, my overriding belief is that BSG is taking place in our future. I can totally see a Matrix like or Terminator like future causing mankind to flee to the stars. I am not connecting Kobol with Kolob simply because I am working from the assumption that the current BSG team have kept only the premise of the original and jetisoned most of the original backstory. Plus, I have always assumed that Kolob is a spiritual plane of existance, not necessarily an actual planet in the cosmos. So much of what makes up my theories are going to be working from those assumptions on my part.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ReddwarfVII:
quote:
Originally posted by Michiel:
By the way, Reddwarf, you should really post your reflections on the SciFi BSG Forum.

Thanks. I won't because I don't like the Scifi forums. Too hard to navigate and the Hatrack forums are a much friendlier evironment. However, feel free to quote anything you like of mine over there.
You could try Ragnar Anchorage or the GateWorld BSG forums... [Wink]
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Carrie:
quote:
Originally posted by ReddwarfVII:
quote:
Originally posted by Michiel:
By the way, Reddwarf, you should really post your reflections on the SciFi BSG Forum.

Thanks. I won't because I don't like the Scifi forums. Too hard to navigate and the Hatrack forums are a much friendlier evironment. However, feel free to quote anything you like of mine over there.
You could try Ragnar Anchorage or the GateWorld BSG forums... [Wink]
Nah, I'm happy here! [Wink] [Big Grin]
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Okay, this is going to be a long one, because I really like what everyone has said, but I wanted to clarify my thoughts. You are thinking in the same vein as I was and I wanted to again add my two bits to each.

quote:
Originally posted by Brinestone:
I don't think the other ships in the fleet are all that well equipped for sustaining human life long term. After all, when Galactica's food supplies became contaminated, the whole fleet was starving. That says to me that the whole fleet is dependent on Galactica's food and water stores, and perhaps oxygen too, though I'm not sure about that so much.

quote:
Originally posted by Carrie:
There was that episode from season 1, "Water," in which we were told that while a good portion of the ships in the RTF are dependent on Galactica for water (such as the Astral Queen), not all of them are (I'm guessing the greenhouse ship isn't).

quote:
Originally posted by Telperion the Silver:
Or, that FTL jumping takes alot of Tillium and is very very expensive, so if you can make the journey without jumping all the better. In the Miniseries Roslin's ship took the slow conventional journey of two hours to Galactica instead of jumping.

If the Twelve Colonies were all in the same solar system then building ships with long range living abilities so they have the option of conventional or FTL is explained easily. Also the Colonies had many mini-colonies, stations, mining sites, etc that non-FTL ships were built too.

I doubt that some long forgotten memory of the exodus from Kobol, that had now become religion, influenced the economics of ship design. Ships of any kind, in the water or in space, are designed only for function and to be cost effective, ie do the job they were built to do well and as cheap as possible.

The Fleet, thankfully, has a Tillium refinery ship with them and a many year supply, "Hand of God", so cost is not longer a problem and the only thing holding them back is the life span of the FTL drives.

When I said ingrained, I really meant exactly that. A concept of survival that is so basic that is simply taught and integrated without need of memory or justification. It just is. We see this all the time in construction. Innovations in design start out as revolutionary or weird. Then something happens, those design enhancements show that lives could have been saved if they were there and those enhancements get so ingrained that they become commonplace. It doesn’t matter if no one remembers why they build ships this way, it’s just part of basic ship design. Think Fiddler on the Roof here.

Somebody talking to Tevya, “Why do we do this thing?”

Tevya’s response, “It doesn’t matter why, it’s TRADITION!”

Of course even so, there are still a lot of ship that rely heavily on the Galactica for many basic needs like water and food. But it’s important to note that all of the ships have some long term capability. Only the military ships like Galatica have an indefinite capability.

Well, another thing to realize is that ships that have FTL drives, should just for the fact that they have FTL, should be built to be in space for long periods, because if a jump went wrong or a drive went out, then that ship could be a very long ways from its port. Don’t think that tillium is necessarily the deciding factor here. See the next bit.

quote:
Originally posted by Telperion the Silver:
quote:
Originally posted by Michiel:
Red Dwarf: you'll remember, of course, that the first time they use the FTL, in the Miniseries, they're concerned because they haven't used it for 40 years.

I wonder why there was such a taboo on its use.

There was no taboo on it's use. And by the way, in the Miniseries they said they had not used the jump drives for 20-25 years. Galactica represented Caprica so after the war it stayed around its dedicated world with no reason to visit other distant locations that would take FTL to reach.
Actually this supports the idea of FTL as a newer technology even further. Don’t you think that if they’ve had thousands of years of using FTL that they would have made much more efficient to the point that the idea of doing a conventional space flight when you could just jump there would seem really ridiculous.

Imagine for a moment that the introduction of alternate fuel engines and stronger lighter building materials give way to personal vehicles that have the ability drive on the road and fly as well. In terms of fuel consumption, driving still uses less gas overall than flying, but the time saved by flying somewhere far outweighs the gas saving benefits. Sure there is still a lot of driving, but when time is a premium or critical, who would drive when they could fly?

Plus, if I remember that conversation from the mini-series about their hesitation to use the FTL drive on Galatica, part of the hesitation came from the fact that they had not plotted an FTL jump in quite awhile. That surprises me, especially on a military ship like a Battlestar. Now I have never served in military, but to me, it seems like when a ship is on duty there are only two settings, on and off. Why wouldn’t an FTL jump be a common place occurrence? Especially in the military where time is always of the essence.

To me that smacks of a new tech that was developed either during the war or right before it. Plus there seemed to be a kind of distrust of the tech. Maybe it was a tech discovered by the cylons and used by them during the war. That led the humans to capture the tech and integrate into their own arsenal to avoid from being behind the eight ball when dealing with the cylons. If it was the cylons that developed FTL tech that would explain their greater and more efficient use of it, besides the whole being robots thing. They put it everything, they can plot jumps faster, and they can jump much further than the human fleets can. If they invented FTL during the war they would have a greater base understanding of it and therefore be far more comfortable and efficient with its use. Whereas the humans, yes they have it, yes they use it, but only when they have to because they don’t completely trust it. ….Maybe.

quote:
I prefer to think that the Lords of Kobol are of the Vorlon persuasion...but considering the whole Eternal Return/Cycle of Time thing they have going on I won't be surprised if they have the Final Five/Lords of Kobol being an ancient Kobol version of the living machines we know as the Cylons.

If that's the case, then the Cylons from the Twelve Colonies bumped into or were found by the Final Five. The Five influenced Cylon evolution, telling them to build humanoid models based off their on dead friends from Kobol.

OH! Brainstorm! Remember at the end of "Eye of Jupiter" we hear Laura quoting scripture about the Temple of Five, built to honor the Five that worshiped the One. THAT'S how the Cylons got their religion! [Eek!]

Reddwarf, I think you may be on to something. [/QB]

quote:
Originally posted by Telperion the Silver:
Ok ok... now if we go along with the idea that the Final Five are the surviving Lords of Kobol who were infact an ancient Kobolian version of the Cylons who then influenced the real Cylons to become like the Kobol versions of old... then who is this One that they worship?? The Cylon god, sure... but what is it?

I was operating under the idea that the Cylon God was the fallen 13th Lord of Kobol that Elosha talked about way back in 1st Season. Could it be that there were 13 models and one of them decided to take over, thus the war on Kobol began. So the Final Five were allied to the rebel model perhaps? They taught the Cylons who in turn created their own religion out of it. It might explain why the Cylons broke the peace treaty to exterminate Humanity if their religion is based off a rebel Kobol version of themselves that wanted to rule over Humans.

But why would the 13th Tribe build a temple to the Five who worshiped the One if that One was evil?
Hmm...

And we can't forget that there are strange forces at work that cannot be explained by normal means. We have the visions and prophecies of Roslin, Number Six, Leoben, and the Oracle on New Caprica that have all come true. SOMETHING is going on.

I really like where you are going here. So first off, throw out a little bit of what I said earlier. Let’s assume that the One wasn’t evil or maybe wasn’t even a cylon. The war that destroyed Kobol could have been a religious one. The one could be a rebellious cylon or the one could simply refer to the one god that the five Lords began to worship instead of the polytheism that was common or both.

Imagine in the trip from Earth that humans began to worship the cylons because of their superior design. When I say worship, I don’t mean in a religious sense, I mean that it started out as a worship much like what already happens when people look up to others. Hero worship, someone who is wise, a brilliant scientist, etc. Then over time that admiration/worship birthed a polytheistic religion. Since the humans were mortal, but the cylons were immortal, the cylons began to believe they were gods, like the Egyptian Pharoahs, and took on god like names from Earth’s mythology. Each god became a ruler over a specific tribe of humans, totaling thirteen. Here, the term tribe stands in for what we would recognize as a nation. The Council of 12 is formed with Zeus at the head of the Council for a total number of 13 individuals on the Council.

Someone pointed out that conversations about the exodus of the 13th on the show make it seem like that tribe left Kobol before the war and before the 12 tribes left for the colonies. Let me build on that premise a little.

For a time all was well and humanity prospered under the careful guidance of the immortal Lords. Then things started to go downhill and several of the Lords began to abuse their power. Human sacrifice is instituted as a way of satisfying some of the Lords bloodlust. Benevolent rulers become dictators and work to turn the human population into slaves. One Lord questions this and remembers a time when humanity worshipped a different theology. A belief in one god that was omnipotent, benevolent, and had unconditional love for all of his creations. This Lord begins to teach this and sways five of the other 12 to believe as he/she does. The remaining seven kill the rebel and banish his tribe to space. This tribe flees to the only place left in the universe they can go..Earth. After their departure, thing on Kobol go from bad to worse as the five make war against the seven. Eventually, humanity rises up against their gods and total war is declared. Humans begin to flee Kobol for the worlds of the 12 colonies that had been discovered and settled after the 13th Tribe was banished. Finally, nuclear bombs are used and Kobol is left in ruin totally destroyed. The tales of the destruction of Kobol are written down by the high priests of the colonies in the religious texts as voices of warning to be passed down for generations. Worship of the Lords of Kobol and its subsequent religion becomes the common faith of the 12 colonies for next thousands of years, with the faith of the rebellious Lord stripped from the scriptures by the high priests so as to maintain the status quo.

The governments of the each of the 12 colonies evolved from the principals taught and espoused by the the Lord of Kobol that ruled over that tribe of human. Which is why the laws governing each world can have such significant differences.

Okay, I could keep going with this and talk about what is going on with the whole visions thing, but I am stop here. It’s late and my brain is turning to mush.
 
Posted by Michiel (Member # 7649) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ReddwarfVII:
Just so you all know, my overriding belief is that BSG is taking place in our future. I can totally see a Matrix like or Terminator like future causing mankind to flee to the stars. I am not connecting Kobol with Kolob simply because I am working from the assumption that the current BSG team have kept only the premise of the original and jetisoned most of the original backstory. Plus, I have always assumed that Kolob is a spiritual plane of existance, not necessarily an actual planet in the cosmos. So much of what makes up my theories are going to be working from those assumptions on my part.

Well, in "Flesh and Bones", Leoben did say that Kobol is "the birthplace of us all". What about that?
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
Just so everybody knows, there's info floating around online that says SciFi has no plans to cancel the series, yet.

--j_k
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Michiel: Well, in "Flesh and Bones", Leoben did say that Kobol is "the birthplace of us all". What about that? [/QB]
There is lots of reasons why he would say that, but the problem with Leoben is that you don't know when he's lying and when he's not. He could be lying, or it could be that the knowledge that human civilization started on Earth has been lost over the centuries. That's a tough one. The one question I would ask is was he referring to all of mankind or just the colonists? If you follow my theory above you could argue that Kobol was the birthplace of their current civilization. That civilization continued to the colonies without much change. Therefore the birthplace of "US" all.

However, what has still got me going is why did they even know about Earth in the first place? Then, why did the 13th tribe choose to go there? With the 12 colonies being so close, Earth seems like an really far journey for an entire tribe of humanity to go just to colonize a planet. Also, why did they name it Earth? Where's the connection?

Also, all of the "clues" of the 13th tribe journey. If Earth wasn't place of myth and legend, but just a planet they discovered like the colonies, then how come they didn't know where it was? Adding to that, the information from the show seems to point to the idea that the 13th tribe, just like BSG group, is following a series of signs and clues from the scriptures to find it. Again, why is Earth a subject of myth and legend?

Also, if Kobol is the place for the birthplace of humanity, why would the Tomb of Athena have a map to Earth's location that wasn't an actual map? Why did Athena have a tomb? Could she have been the rebellous Lord of Kobol?

Then there's the journey of the 13th tribe. Why in the world would they leave religious markers behind for others to follow? Marking a path with religious symbols does not say to me that they were going to settle a virgin world. It tells me that they were on a pilgrimage to Mecca as it were. Seems like if Earth was a colony of Kobol, it would not have any more religious significance than say Caprica. But on a pilgrimage, they would be following clues and signs from ancient scripture and leaving behind clues, signs, and markers for other pilgrams. Looks like the 13th tribe believed that others would follow them and make this pilgrimage to the holy land.

See? Too many questions. For me the clues just are not adding up that humanity came from Kobol and then settles Earth.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by James Tiberius Kirk:
[qb] Just so everybody knows, there's info floating around online that says SciFi has no plans to cancel the series, yet.

--j_k

Honestly, with all of the critical acclaim that BSG has gotten, do you really think that the network that brought us Stargate and let it go for 10 seasons, is going to give up on its best show to date so easily?

They're not stupid. BSG gets alot of people tuning to Scifi network. Plus the download following it has on iTunes makes up for the lackluster ratings. Nielson is not taking the downloads in account with their ratings. When you add up both, Scifi knows they've got a keeper. I bet that Scifi will have BSG for as long as RM and company can stand to keep cranking out episodes.

BSG has gotten so much attention because it's so good. The show is being graded by some high standards. Stargate never would have withstood this much scrutiny by the mainstream.

Don't get me wrong, I do love Stargate and even Alantis, but not enough to spend 3 bucks every week downloading the episodes, then go out and spend 40 bucks on the DVD's of the full season. That's why there will be a 4th season, a 5th, and any more that RM and company want to do.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
However, if they do cancel it, I hope that they at least answer a bunch of questions before they sign off. That would really suck we were to be left forever hanging.
 
Posted by Michiel (Member # 7649) on :
 
Well. Surely all episodes of Season 3 have been shot already. Also, any remaining commercial value for the creators lies in not revealing future story lines (since "you never know"). Therefore, if there is no Episode 4 we will most likely never be know how they wanted to handle certain issues.
 
Posted by Michiel (Member # 7649) on :
 
To be honest, I very much hope that a full season 4 gets made (which would also mean we'd get to see the Film-straight-to-DVD that is supposed to play "in between" 3 and 4), but that SciFi announces beforehand that it will be the final season.

I think is the best set of circumstances to prod Ron Moore and his people to produce a splendid send-off that does justice to the story itself. If it were to go "on and on", they will have to close down plot lines, invent new ones whole-cloth, some main actors will want to leave, and the whole thing will just become "yet another series".

It would be terrible if this excellent series gets shot down before its time, and the end of this season is definitely not it. But we'll get the best and most honest story if there is an end in sight, both for the writers and for the actors.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Mrs. Ron has said on the Scifi.com forums that SciFi has no intention of canceling BSG. No fear! Season 4 will be made. [Smile]
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
A little bit of good news from www.syfyportal.com:

David Howe, executive vice president of SciFi Channel, which produces and airs the 1970s series remake, told iFMagazine that the reason why the fate of "Battlestar Galactica" hasn't been announced yet is because the network is on a time schedule for such decisions, and they usually wait until the deadline to announce it. But either way, he would be "shocked" if the show as not picked up for a fourth season.
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
[Party]
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Just four more days!!! So...does anyone want to go out on a limb and say what the Eye of Jupiter actually is?

Me? Looking at the temple I say a beam that emmanates from the middle spire in the temple that literally points to earth or the next marker. What do you all think?
 
Posted by Michiel (Member # 7649) on :
 
I want to engage in endless speculation about the show being renewed or not, but it's certainly not a sure thing.
There is a spoiler in the link:
http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070117/ART18/701170375
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I think it's that supernova thingy that's about to blow everybody up.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Michiel:
I want to engage in endless speculation about the show being renewed or not, but it's certainly not a sure thing.

I would disagree. This is why.

"Despite stellar reviews, ratings are down, not necessarily because fewer people are watching, but because so many viewers are watching on DVR or via iTunes downloads, not on cable."

The thing is, they know that people are tuning in. They're are making their money off of the show. The iTunes downloads alone are offsetting some of the ad revenue that they are not getting because the ratings are down. Scifi's problem is not getting more viewers. Their problem is that not enough of those viewers have cable or are home to tune on the night that BSG is on. The move to Sunday is a smart one even with more competition. There simply more viewers at home on Sunday Night to watch television than there are on Fridays.

My prediction? Season 4 is on its way and a significant ratings increase.
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ReddwarfVII:
Just four more days!!! So...does anyone want to go out on a limb and say what the Eye of Jupiter actually is?

It's an actual eye. Inside the center pillar of the temple, there's a chamber that holds the cryogenically frozen eye of Jupiter, who was one of the Five (and one of the Final Five, of course).

When they find the eye, it will blink in Morse code, and tell them the answers to every plot line that remains to be answered.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
It's an actual eye. Inside the center pillar of the temple, there's a chamber that holds the cryogenically frozen eye of Jupiter, who was one of the Five (and one of the Final Five, of course).

When they find the eye, it will blink in Morse code, and tell them the answers to every plot line that remains to be answered.

[ROFL] [ROFL] [ROFL] [ROFL]

Bing! Bing! Bing! Bing!

And we have a winner!!!!!
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Carrie:
I think it's that supernova thingy that's about to blow everybody up.

Actually I've been wondering if the human fleet will be able to FTL jump far enough away to not be hit by the blast.
 
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
 
My thoughts:

Note. I have never seen an episode. My only information is what I've read here. Be that as it may, I have two ideas.

1) Everybody is a Ceylon. The only survivors allowed were secret Ceylon agents who have their true secret identity hidden from themselves. The Ceylons are trying to decide if they should 1) Work harder to bring these soldiers home, and use the ridiculous "we want our kids" plot to do it, or 2) allow them to find Earth so that it too can be wiped clean of the human infestation.

2) THe "Five" were four dedicated and resourceful Gods of Kobol who love Humanity, and the Evil Ceylon who wanted to be the Ceylon of all Ceylons. They all have a human appearance, and have traveled with the humans attempting to guide their destiny.

At least one good "god" tried hard to limit mankinds thirst for technology, hoping to allow them time to develop a deeper, more spiritual side.

One other good god decided that mankind needed to be prepared to fight the evil god. When he realized how the Evil god had manuevered man into making Ceylons again, he realized it was time to become personally involved in what he knew would be a fight.

This God, this one of the great 5 Ceylons, is Adama.

Which of course, makes Apollo one of the great half-breeds that are the ultimate goal of the Ceylons.

The Ceylons are searching for their God, because he happened to put into thier development code this desire. He/she believes that they will become the Ceylon's one god upon discovery, and all the rest will be brought down.

He also realized the power of the racial mixture, and went about creating his own tools/children.

One of these is Balthar.

(This creates a nice duality/competition between not Adama and Balthar, but Apollo and Balthar. Further, we've already seen part of this as Apollo's female friend--Starbuck and Balthar's have fought.).

I would not be surprised if the President is also a child of one of "the Five". It could explain how the Ceylon blood cured her cancer.
 
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
Get with the times, Dan. It's called Sri Lanka now, not Ceylon. [Razz]
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Just one more day!
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
26 hours and change!!!
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Yahoo TV has got a couple preview videos that I have not seen anywhere else. One is a promo the other is a sneak peak. Click here if you would like to see them.
 
Posted by Michiel (Member # 7649) on :
 
I think I can manage to wait, butonly barely:)

ALso HBO has Rome tonight, so although too much TV is bad for the soul, Sundays will have to be an exception!
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
less than 3 hours my time but will have to wait for it to be available via iTunes. Hmmmm, new BSG episodes, can't wait! [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Dav (Member # 8217) on :
 
Maybe Lucy Lawless's contract ended? [Wink]

Edit: hm, new page.
Good episode, though it didn't answer a lot of questions ...

[ January 21, 2007, 11:25 PM: Message edited by: Dav ]
 
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
 
Okay, I much prefer having her character be the one that goes away over the implications made in the Tribune interview of a week or two ago. And I'm glad to see that the whole discussion about the paintings in Kara's old apartment seem to be on target so far. I'm kind of surprised that the Six model (Caprica, perhaps? I've lost track) went along with Athena's demands so readily, though.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
The Six that is now on Galactica is Caprica, which puts the two people most responsible for the destruction of the fleet in the brig of Galactica. I loved that Chief both knocked out Gaius after the "Welcome home, Mr. President" line and that he brought Gaius back in a body bag. I laughed and cheered. I totally called the supernova-as-the-Eye thing, too. [Smile]

Thoughts on D'Anna and the final five? To whom did she say "I'm sorry"? I've seen suggestions of Anders, which is interesting, and Gaius. Thoughts?

And who's excited for next week when we finally get this whole Lee/Kara/Dee/Anders mess hopefully put to rest? [Wave]
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
I think Kara is one of the Final Five. [Smile]
 
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Telperion the Silver:
I think Kara is one of the Final Five. [Smile]

I had the same feeling. The cylons seem to be the ones with the mystical visions and callings. Baltar and Kara seem likely candidates to be secret skinjobs.
 
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
 
So...who was D'Anna apologizing to?

-Starbuck. She's been though a lot at the hands of the Cylons, from the Caprica "farm" to her imprisonment during the occupation. And of course, there are other reasons to believe she might be a Cylon, such as the apartment paintings. And she did do pretty well in hand-to-hand combat with a Six back on Caprica.

-Tigh. He lost his eye and his wife. Is his hatred of the Cylons due to more than just what they've done to humanity? Is there some sort of subconscious self-loathing just like the feelings that drove Boomer to attempt suicide?

-Bulldog. Perhaps he's not enough of a major character to be one of the final five. It certainly wouldn't have the emotional impact of a main character being unmasked. However, although we haven't seen much of him, the D'Anna model has certainly spent plenty of time with him, and I suspect he was abused and tortured while he was with the Cylons.

-Baltar. While he may be a Cylon, I can't actually see her apologizing to him like that. Plus, she knows that he thinks he's a Cylon, so she's certainly thought about the possibility. It must be someone that she's shocked to discover is a Cylon. However, she did torture him, so maybe that's what she's apologizing for.
 
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
 
The highlight for me was Dee slapping Starbuck. That's good writing.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Yeah, my money is on Kara being one of the final five. That would fit in with all of the hype surrounding the upcoming Episode Malestrom.

Or perhaps a child of the five? That is possible to.
 
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
I marvelled at how well they packed so much into one episode -- everyone who is important to the story lines currently going are now back on Galactica. We don't have to go back to the stupid Basestar and watch the hybrid mumble stuff. This is going to be much more interesting. I am trying to figure out why Caprica Six went with Sharon back to Galactica, when all she had to do was lead her to the raptor. That part didn't make a lot of sense to me.

And yeah, my money is on Kara being one of the final five...though how that makes any sense at all given the length of her history with the Adama family is certainly a question I look forward to them answering.

Overall, one of the best episodes yet.
 
Posted by TrapperKeeper (Member # 7680) on :
 
I noticed that when the girl had the vision of the final 5, she recognized and apologized to one.

Who did she wrong that demanded an apology like that? And are there copies of the final 5? are they spirits? Did she just see their image and not actually them?
 
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
I think it's prolly starbuck but I'm really hoping it's not. I really like Starbuck. She's possibly the most flawed and human character on the show. Turning her into a cylon would be too much of a statement.

It also sorta doesn't make sense to me that they don't know who the other 5 cylon models are. I'm sure they'll explain it, but I think it would be difficult to do in a satisfying way. I think it would have been better to simply not have the uncast cylons not appear on screen because they just happened to never be around.

Here's hoping they surprise me.
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TrapperKeeper:
I noticed that when the girl had the vision of the final 5, she recognized and apologized to one.

Who did she wrong that demanded an apology like that? And are there copies of the final 5? are they spirits? Did she just see their image and not actually them?

Grown up Hera? Roslin? It can't be Kara, because I read on Ausiello that she's definitely not a Cylon. They might be messing with him and planting false information, but I doubt it.
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by The Pixiest:
It also sorta doesn't make sense to me that they don't know who the other 5 cylon models are. I'm sure they'll explain it, but I think it would be difficult to do in a satisfying way. I think it would have been better to simply not have the uncast cylons not appear on screen because they just happened to never be around.

Maybe they boxed the final five the way they boxed D'Anna. Or maybe they had themselves boxed.
 
Posted by TrapperKeeper (Member # 7680) on :
 
Possibly, but if they were boxed it wouldnt make sense for the other cylons to not know their faces AND hold them in high regards.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I really disagree with the idea that Starbuck's a Cylon. There's just something fundamentally human about her - just like Gaius. I have no justification for this, only my gut feeling.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
AWESOME episode. Wow. Roslyn was freaking scary! I'm convinced once more that Baltar is a sociopath.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I remain firmly convinced that Dee is a manipulative little shrew. And I miss Billy.
 
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
Dee threw it all away when she dumped Billy. I don't have a lot of sympathy for her postion though I know it seriously sucks.

Lee shouldn't leave Dee for Kara, though. Kara is way too flighty. She *will* cheat on him. She *will* abuse him emotionally. She's far too self centered to be in a relationship (no matter how butchy-hot she is.)
 
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
 
First thought after the last episode: Adama and Roslin are getting it on! (about time)

Second thought: Dee is one of the final 5. It fits with Cylon MO. Don't be too important yourself, but get close to someone who is important. Manipulate them, so that they are emotionally in debt to you. Keep them off balance and keep yourself in a position to gain valuable information and change the course of events.

I wonder if Starbuck's hubby is a Cylon too. It would explain how he survived so long as part of a doomed resistance movement (something he mentioned himself to her) and it would tie in nicely with the perfect timing of his and Dee's ultimatums.

Even if they're not Cylons, I think they're bad news.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Telperion the Silver:
AWESOME episode. Wow. Roslyn was freaking scary! I'm convinced once more that Baltar is a sociopath.

Here! Here!
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
quote:
First thought after the last episode: Adama and Roslin are getting it on! (about time)
I love the familiarity with which they treat each other. When Roslin was laying there holding Adama's hand, it just spoke of such utter trust. Only thing with them, is if they get together they'd be a stable happy couple. The fleet might have a reaction, but there wouldn't be any personal drama. As such, I think the writers get more of a reaction out of us with these teases than they would if the two got together.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
I also loved how Roslyn was talking to Gayta, fooling us that she would talk him down, and then WHAM! Adama comes out of the blue and nails him. Talk about not taking chances. [Smile]

And did you guys watch the extra scene at the Battlestar website? Caprica Six told the President that she would tell all if Baltar had a trial.

[ January 31, 2007, 12:51 AM: Message edited by: Telperion the Silver ]
 
Posted by TrapperKeeper (Member # 7680) on :
 
Wanted to catch the extra scene, but couldnt find it on their website. Anything else important happen?
 
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Telperion the Silver:
I also loved how Roslyn was talking to Gayta, fooling us that she would talk him down, and then WHAM! Adama comes out of the blue and nails him. Talk about not taking chances. [Smile]

They showed him shifting his stance in the background as Roslin was talking. All that boxing pays off, I guess. [Wink]

quote:
Originally posted by Telperion the Silver:
And did you guys watch the extra scene at the Battlestar website? Caprica Six told the President that she would tell all if Baltar had a trial.

I couldn't watch it (didn't work with Safari or Firefox on my Mac), so thanks for the synopsis. [Smile]

Some people are speculating that the Final Five are currently humans, but if they die they'll be reborn in the Cylon tanks and become skinjobs, causing mass confusion among the Cylons. Probable candidates humans considered by the Cylons to have a special destiny (e.g. Baltar, Kara).
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Telperion the Silver:
I also loved how Roslyn was talking to Gayta, fooling us that she would talk him down, and then WHAM! Adama comes out of the blue and nails him. Talk about not taking chances. [Smile]

I think she was honestly trying to talk Gaeta down. She didn't realize Adama was going to slam him.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
True, but she wasn't phazed at all when it happened. [Smile]
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Hey for those of you that listen to the podcasts, the podcast for Ep 14 has already been posted on iTunes. I downloaded it today. Not sure if I am going to listen to it or not.
 
Posted by Michiel (Member # 7649) on :
 
tonight's episode was one of the weakest I've seen. BSG really is losing its edge.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I was really excited when it looked like Dee was going to die. I do agree that this was a bit weaker - normally I can't predict the plot twists (yes, I'm admitting I didn't see Boomer shooting the old man coming), but tonight was way too easy to figure out. I'm not asking for Agatha Christie, but some sort of new element would be awesome.

That said, YAY FOR (mostly-)NAKED HELO!!!! [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin] And hooray for Tom Zarek. And for Roslin and Tory seeing Caprica make out with thin air. We giggled insanely at that point. "What is she doing?"
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
I loved the look Starbuck shot Apollo during that strange ball tossing game at the bar.

Carrie, I also must admit excitement over Dee possibly being dead. And that she's a manipulative little shrew.

As for the main plotline, when Cottle said he'd already performed the autopsy on that kid, I said immediately that he hadn't and that as soon as Helo left, he'd go do it then (which it looks like he did). The plot itself wasn't bad, but at the same time, I disliked the predictability. The sub-plot wth Caprica and Baltar and the trial seemed chucked in as an afterthought and entirely forgotten in the second half of the episode.

I did love the re-appearance of head-Baltar though.
 
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
Carrie: I always get incredibly embarassed for Baltar (and in this case, Six) when they make out (or boink) with their head-opposites. That's a part of the show I could do without. But yeah, I know some people like them.

This episode was damn predictable and weak. But that's ok. Every show is allowed some bad episodes.
 
Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :
 
Here's hoping the writers redeem themselves next week... first time in a long time Lost has kicked BSG's butt during a given week.
 
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
 
Did anyone else watch the "Special Scene" after the show. What the heck was that? It didn't seem to fit into anything that was going on. I was totally confused.
 
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
 
Okay, pet peeve.... "I owe you an apology". Grrrr, why doesn't he just SAY it instead of alluding to it? And it's not just Adama, or just BSG.

Other than that, my other comments have been covered already.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
That's referring to Helo's actions of a few episodes ago, where he killed the sick Cylons before they could get close enough to download, thus preventing the humans from committing genocide. It was supposed to show that Helo is, as always, absolutely right and the guiding moral compass of the Galactica.

Or something.
 
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by MightyCow:
Did anyone else watch the "Special Scene" after the show. What the heck was that? It didn't seem to fit into anything that was going on. I was totally confused.

I'm not sure if that was supposed to be a deleted scene from last night (in which it makes no sense at all) or if it was a teaser for next week.

(edit) I didn't remember it being Helo that did that. But I know I was pretty distracted through that episode.
 
Posted by Me, Myself, and I (Member # 10003) on :
 
This show should only have about 5 episodes left this season. It seems like they have a lot of ground to cover to have this season go somewhere before the finale. The next episode seems like it just might be another filler episode about some accident. Where are we headed for the end of this season?
 
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
 
Ah, I missed the episode with the sick Cylons. It makes much more sense now. I'll have to hit up iTunes and see if I can download it.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
quote:
And for Roslin and Tory seeing Caprica make out with thin air. We giggled insanely at that point. "What is she doing?"
That was hilarious!!! [Big Grin] Totally made up for any failings of the rest of the episode.
 
Posted by Me, Myself, and I (Member # 10003) on :
 
Did I hear Tigh correctly when, after Helo punched him, he said, "Oh, and you might want to get your fist checked out."

That was hilarious, assuming I heard correctly. If I didn't, well it was still funny.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
You heard it correctly. [Wink]
 
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
 
It's been renewed . [Party]

13 episodes, and presumably the DVD movie.
 
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
 
I expected that, but YAY!!!!!!!!!
 
Posted by Counter Bean (Member # 10176) on :
 
Yeah! Going to see Earth for sure!
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Carrie:
And for Roslin and Tory seeing Caprica make out with thin air. We giggled insanely at that point. "What is she doing?"

Had we ever seen Caprica having a Head-Baltar before? Is whatever's appearing to Baltar as Six and whatever's appearing to Caprica as Baltar the same thing, just taking different forms?
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
Galactica 2010?
 
Posted by gnixing (Member # 768) on :
 
Spoilers


Yes, head-Baltar appeared before, but no indications yet as to the meaning behind the manifestations. Baltar theorized that his visions meant that he was a Cylon... but after his suicide attempt, he seems to have lost faith in that theory.
 
Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :
 
Try Galactica 6010 (I really hope)...
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
I really don't think Galactica is losing its edge (as Michael claimed.)

Every show of sufficient length has bad episodes from time to time. And really, compared to most television this episode isn't that bad. (Which is why Firefly is perfect. It didn't last long enough to HAVE any bad episodes!)

It's just a tv episode, as RDM alluded to in his podcast.

But... Galactica isn't "just a tv show", it's a helluva lot better than that. So something that seems "normal" for television equals the worst episode in the series. (and this IS the worst episode I've seen, and I've seen every episode released so far.)

Okay, even RDM, the guy in charge, basically gave the whole "I'm not gonna say it out loud, I'm not gonna actually SAY it, but this episode blows" during the podcast. Now, that was the feeling I got from him, at least.

Okay, I was giggling and yelling and cheering when Head Baltar returned. That was great, and I'd been waiting for it since I saw the first episode with Head Baltar in it.

And apparently, evne though Head Baltar is shaved, regular Baltar will still have his beard. Which I think is awesome.

Anyway, I really didn't like this episode. (only the second time this ever happened in BSG. Ever.) There've been a few marginaly good episodes, but this is the worst, hands down.

Regardless, it's still my favorite show and I have faith that a single slip-up is not going to signal a declining quality. It didn't last time, it won't this time.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Still, not much story moving forward very quickly and therefore, not a ton to talk about.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Don't miss the Video Blog over at scifi.com/battlestar - it features Chief, and I heart Chief. [Smile]

The all-time best Video Blog, however, was "Billy Gets No Respect," from S2. I miss Billy!
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Mmmm... I actually didn't think last weeks episode was bad at all. Wasn't in my top five, but it was ok. Much better than "Black Market" imho. I liked seeing Helo (he is a cutie) and him finally saying out loud that he really has an odd man out complex.

The only thing I had an issue with was why, in Humanity's current situation, they were so tribal? Making big deals over which dead Colony world you came from. Good gravy. If anything make a big deal which ship you come from...or the fact that your civilization has been wiped out and how do you carry on the memory of that.

I liked seeing the emination taking the form of Baltar again. [Smile] And how Roslyn saw Six acting all wierd. [Big Grin]

Three cheers for the renewal! With only 13 episodes this time round they can make each one hyper good like First Season.
 
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
Wait—next season will be only thirteen episodes? I assumed that they were buying only thirteen for now, meaning they'd probably order the rest later.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
I listened to the podcast of the episode, and it seems that basically the entire episode, when written and shot, had been part of a springboard for subject matter in Baltar's upcoming trial. Something about a massacre of Saggitarons that Baltar WAS directly responsible for on New Caprica. But then they decided to chuck that angle and had to excise everything about that particular thread, but you're still LEFT with an entire episode.

All in all, it wasn't a bad episode at all, it just didn't further any of the overarching plot arcs currently in play.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
The lack of serious plot motion lately has been a source of frustration for me personally. From the speed point of view, a 13 episode season would be better because you would have fewer filler eps.

Not that I want less BSG. Even the slow filler eps have alot in them that makes them worth watching. I've even watch Black Market a couple times.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
BSG is like Dr. Who its 2x as many seasons but theyre half sized, were gonna get 2 13 ep seasons this year to make the equivilent of like 1 22é26 episode season.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
NONONONONONONNO! TELL ME IT ISNT SO! NO NO NO! CAALY! NO! poor Chief [Frown]
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
Um, Cally was still alive, dude.

I really liked that episode. But then again, Bill Adama is one hell of a fascinating character.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
I liked the episode, although the lack of a greater sense of focus in an overall plot is getting a bit agitating. Adama and Laura make me giggly. Hopefully good things will happen there. [Smile]

One thing that has been confusing me are the ship's quarters. Several episodes ago, it looked like everybody was really cramped and sharing common space. Chief and Cally were showed this way as were Starbuck and her husband (to the point where the only privacy they had during sex was to drape a sheet across the opening of their bunk.) But in this episode and last episode, each couple has a private room. What's up?
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
mack shes in an IRONLUNG and I so far have the impression that she may not be able to leave it, I watched it on tv so i cant resee it.

Officers privilage?
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
Chief said the doctor said she'd be fine.

It seems like if they didn't have the space to give officers private rooms a few episodes ago, they still wouldn't now.
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
Blayne, she's in a hyperbaric chamber, it's used as a treatment for decompression sickness (which she's experencing from the shot through the vacuum). Cottle also doesn't mince words, so if he says she'll make it, she'll make it.
 
Posted by Counter Bean (Member # 10176) on :
 
For a smart guy the chief sure dropped the ball, stuffing Cally in a duct taped cargo container marked with a big X would have saved her hard vacuum exposure, sure hope he does not realize that or the guilt might kill him. Of course there were a lot of people without oxygen deprivation that could have thought of it...
 
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
 
Cally's up and about and looking ok in the preview of next week's episode.

I enjoyed the additional insight into the Adama family's dynamics and background. It was interesting how Adama had vivid recollections that he interacted with, but unlike the Cylon-style visions, he didn't really react in the real world but only in his head (no air kissing!)

I thought the airlock plot was quite interesting, and I was really impressed with Athena's flying. Pretty good to avoid all the debris but catch Tyrol and Cally.

I wasn't sure before, but given the conversation between Adama and Roslin, I think they probably did have sex that night on New Caprica. Thus bringing all sorts of interesting complications to their relationship as admiral and president. It is sort of fun to watch them flirt but hold back any real commitment.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Old people sex! Actually, I'm not sure I want to think about that, though I did enjoy the extra scene with Gaeta cottoning on... [Wink]

I liked it more than the past few episodes.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Yeah Amanecer, I'm also a little confused on the suddenly huge quarters that our leads seem to have. Considering last week we saw again the cramping problems on Galactica space is a big problem like never before.

I fear that one of those TV convienences has crept into BSG.

But the Adama/Roslyn thing also makes me giggle like a little girl! What DID happen on New Caprica??
 
Posted by Dav (Member # 8217) on :
 
My impression was that they just enjoyed a little romance together on New Caprica, without sex. It really is possible to do that [Smile]
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
This episode was frustrating and infuriating. Why didn't someone go EVA and patch the hole from the outside? They could have sprayed just about anything on the hole to patch it. Hell, they could have stuck an air hose through the hole first and pumped air in.

Seeing Tyrol and Cally with nice smooth skin, when they should have been absolutely covered with broken blood vessels and other marks from the cold and vacuum was worse than any explosions in space, as far as I'm concerned. They should have looked absolutely monstrous after what they went through.

They could have slowed the leak by a lot had they bothered to take some of their clothing and push it up against the hole. All Tyrol tried, other than the patch that didn't work, was what looked like a washcloth.

I'm good with the suspension of disbelief, and I watch this more for the characters than I do for the science, but stuff like this is like a slap in the face with a trout.
 
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
 
Lisa: Yeah, when they were talking about taking a raptor out, I first assumed that they were going to try to patch it from the outside. It did seem a little odd how everyone was so helpless to fix what seemed like a small hole.

Dav: Sure it is, and that's what I thought when I saw the boxing episode. But given the way they were dancing around the topic in last night's episode, I think it's likely they slept together. At least, that's my impression.
 
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
It's my understanding that space walks can take a really long time. They were already out of air by the time the raptor got in position. Think how much longer it would've taken for someone to go outside with all the proper tools, find the leak, and patch itup.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
I think the dancing around the topic was just bringing to the surface what was happening. That night, their hand holding in the past few episodes, Laura's frequent visits... Previously, they both didn't acknolwedge it. I think Adama wanted some tangible affirmation of Roslin's affection during his day of dealing with his ex-wife's lack thereof. I highly doubt they slept together.
 
Posted by Counter Bean (Member # 10176) on :
 
I could not believe that the inner door could not have a hole poked in it. As I said the containers would have provided temporary protection, and I would have to say that vacuum seals of various sizes for holes from micro meteors and shrapnel would be pretty high on the list of things 'in the tool box' of a maintenance man on a Battlestar.
 
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
 
They did talk about cutting the doors but said that the air would run out before they cut through. They do want those doors to be very strong in case of a hull breach (or in case of a crash or something similar--just like the window was reinforced against forces up to those produced by a tylium bomb.
 
Posted by Counter Bean (Member # 10176) on :
 
I know they want to make the ordinance look gritty and realistic but come on, a "LASER" might not be too out of place...
 
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
 
Maybe I wasn't in the right mood, but this episode didn't do it for me at all.

The whole ex-wife plotline seemed to come out of nowhere, and man, was she annoying. And we never got to see what Adama loved about her; we were just supposed to accept that he did love her despite the fact that she was critical, manipulative, drunk, and unhinged. The scene between Lee and Adama seemed either poorly written or poorly acted because it felt wooden and . . . off.

The plotline with the Tyrols was better, but there were so many science questions that people have already brought up here that I couldn't really suspend disbelief enough to enjoy the character dynamics going on. I did love the scene when Chief put his and Nick's hands on the window and Cally reached her hand up to touch them. [Smile]

And while I'm rooting for Adama and Roslin to get together, the scene at the end was silly and out-of-character for Roslin, in my opinion. I picture them breaching the gap in a moment of extreme tension, and they're talking about what to do. Then suddenly one of them just goes for it and kisses the other.

*shrug* But I'm not the writer, I suppose.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Counter Bean:
I could not believe that the inner door could not have a hole poked in it. As I said the containers would have provided temporary protection, and I would have to say that vacuum seals of various sizes for holes from micro meteors and shrapnel would be pretty high on the list of things 'in the tool box' of a maintenance man on a Battlestar.

I think that you are making some pretty big assumptions there. The fleet and the crew are running pretty ragged. They lost alot of resources that were left on New Caprica, not to mention the loss of the Pegasus. I don't that we can assume that they have alot of anything that they should be carrying around in their "tool box"

Also, I think that you are forgetting about the time critical situation that the Chief and Cally were in. From start of the crisis to the end of the crisis was probably 45 minutes tops. Cutting through doors and sending out an EVA team to patch the hole from the outside were not viable options. Welding a patch that size on the inside of the airlock in normal circumstances probably took at least 15 to 20 minutes. Welding is not a quick process in general. Then to be doing it on the outside of the ship in the vacuum of space? Come on, do you really think that they had time to do that?

Stuff clothing in the hole? Sorry Lisa, bad idea. It was getting cold in there and clothing would not have created enough of a seal to allow the pressure to restablize. You are really underestimating the suction power that hole would have to pull air through the clothing. Plus with each layer of clothing they lost, the more exposed they would become. Maybe if they were wearing fligh suits, which are supposed to be airtight. I do agree with you on the condition of their skin. There should have been more visable skin problems.

Someone else was surprised that the inner doors had not been breached. Who said they hadn't at one point? The Chief and Cally were there to work on the electrical systems, not the hull patches.

One thing to remember is that they are running pretty ragged and the fact that they have gone 49 days without a Cylon sighting is making the crew complacent and kind of sloppy. The scene in the bathroom with the Chief and the rest of the crew made that pretty evident to me.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Brinestone:
Maybe I wasn't in the right mood, but this episode didn't do it for me at all.

The whole ex-wife plotline seemed to come out of nowhere, and man, was she annoying. And we never got to see what Adama loved about her; we were just supposed to accept that he did love her despite the fact that she was critical, manipulative, drunk, and unhinged.

Part of it was that Adama courted her mostly for her political ties, as her father (or some other relative) was a member of the Quorum of Twelve, and he needed that influence to get back into the military. While Adama did come to love her it was more a marriage of convienence for him in the beginning. Who knows if that initial deception was part of breakdown of their relationship or that he got into it so fast he didn't see/care about her other issues.
 
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
I'm skeptical that the hole could have been patched from the outside. Patching from the inside means you can use the atmospheric pressure in the room to force the patch over the hole. From the outside, I'm not sure how you'd apply enough force to the patch to get it to seal the hole without breaking -- at least, not without making the process much more complex than they had time for.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by twinky:
I'm skeptical that the hole could have been patched from the outside. Patching from the inside means you can use the atmospheric pressure in the room to force the patch over the hole. From the outside, I'm not sure how you'd apply enough force to the patch to get it to seal the hole without breaking -- at least, not without making the process much more complex than they had time for.

That's a good point. In order for them to patch the hole from the outside, there would have to be no atmosphere on the inside of the airlock. That is probably how the hole got patched in the first place. They patched it from inside the airlock, but entered the airlock from the outer doors. Since damage control was in a rush to fix the hole and move onto the next problem, no one bothered to test the strength of the patch, setting the Chief and Cally up for their problem because they were the first people to visit the airlock since it had been patched.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Workers of the Colonies Unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains!
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Baltar's backstory = awesome. The whole dialect shift thing was fascinating. [Smile]
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
my favorite part.
 
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
 
That was trippy.... I was losing interest in the whole episode and had actually started to wander off in search of a snack when I heard the accent change.

And I'm starting to think that Cally's time is rather limited. This is the second episode in a row that she's been close to dying, right? Not that I really believed Adama would go through with it, but still.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
actually by my count 4.

1st time when she was attempted to be raped by TomZareks friend.

2nd was when she was going to be shot by Cylon execution squad.

3rd time when she spent time in a vaccuum.

4th time now being when she was going to be execued but thankfully averted.
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
Interesting episode. Always amazed at Baltar's sense of self-preservation.

I think it's ironic how we went from Baltar sending Cally before a firing squad, to Adama sending Cally before a firing squad for reading Baltar's works.

--j_k
 
Posted by Kasie H (Member # 2120) on :
 
There was also the time Chief almost killed her when he thought he was a cylon.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Cally is still alive cuz she's a scrapper! You just can't keep a good scrapper down.

I realize that the lack of things blowing up can be somewhat boring to some of you. However, this ep highlighted some very strong characters making difficult decisions in extrordinary circumstances. The show is dealing with other issues beyond the cylons. I really like the fact that the writers are taking the time to contemplate what is going on in the fleet. Ignoring that side of the story turns BSG into Star Trek with some nudity. Come on, someone cleaned the toilets on the Enterprise? Maybe that guy's story is worth telling as well. Taking time to highlight some of the details of the of the peripheral stuff adds a lot of richness to the story telling. Especially if it is well written, which I think this Ep was.

I like seeing things blow up as much as the next guy, but when Selix(sp?) got her wings at the end, I was feeling it too. As far as character development goes, best ep this season.
 
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
When Cally was defending Baltar's book I was shouting at the screen "He signed your execution warrent!"
 
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
 
I'm far from defending Baltar's actions, but would it have mattered had he not signed those orders?
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
quote:
Workers of the Colonies Unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains!
Unless of course the Cylons attack. Then you die.

This episode was excellent! The past few didn't do much for me, but I greatly enjoyed this one. I'm curious what other types of work are available on the fleet. We have military, politics, and factory work. But there are a lot more ships in the fleet than just those. What do all of those people do all day? I was thinking that perhaps factory work could become like Switzerland's draft. Everybody is required to give a certain amount of time, maybe 6 months. They could do it on rotating schedules, changing every two months, so that there are constantly trained workers there to teach others. As it is, it certainly seems like slavery.

Chief's arrest also made me wonder- are members of Galactica allowed to leave the service? And do they have a training system for new military members (beyond pilot training)? I can't remember it coming up before. If they can't, that sounds problematic.

quote:
When Cally was defending Baltar's book I was shouting at the screen "He signed your execution warrent!"
I see nothing contradictary about finding value in Baltar's ideas and still wanting the man to die.
 
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Carrie:
Baltar's backstory = awesome. The whole dialect shift thing was fascinating. [Smile]

I was more struck by how freaky his face looked while he was doing that.

-pH
 
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by pH:
quote:
Originally posted by Carrie:
Baltar's backstory = awesome. The whole dialect shift thing was fascinating. [Smile]

I was more struck by how freaky his face looked while he was doing that.

-pH

Me too. But Baltar's been known to look freaky before. The man's a chameleon. Which makes you wonder if he didn't invent his backstory... Neah, probably not.
 
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
 
I also thought it was an amazing episode. I'm glad that the President finally saw the light...but I guess we will have to see where it goes from here. I was very disappointed in both her and Adama. I still don't like how she is treating Baltar though.
 
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
 
I don't like that either. She's becoming a little dictatorish. Fortunately all the problems changed her mind a little. I wonder if it's enough to see Baltar in a different light though.

As for Adama, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have done anything to Calli. Remember the Admiral from Pegasus? He wasn't very fond of that woman's attitude. Unless he changed a lot he wouldn't have done anything. Of course the chief couldn't take the risk and call the bluff and both of them knew it.
 
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
 
But even the threat was over the top. It was one thing to threaten to execute the Chief, but to threaten to shoot his wife if he didn't go along with things is another matter. That crosses over into being a dictator.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
I like Baltar and Im pretty sure hell redeem himself in the end.
 
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Lupus:
But even the threat was over the top. It was one thing to threaten to execute the Chief, but to threaten to shoot his wife if he didn't go along with things is another matter. That crosses over into being a dictator.

You're right, knowing he wouldn't have done it still doesn't excuse his action. Feels like what a terrorist would do. Use your love/loyalty to others to make you do things you don't want to. Or a cruel dictator, as you say. Same difference I guess.
 
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
 
Great episode. One of the best of the year so far.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Amanecer:
Chief's arrest also made me wonder- are members of Galactica allowed to leave the service? And do they have a training system for new military members (beyond pilot training)? I can't remember it coming up before. If they can't, that sounds problematic.

The only thing I remember is from S2's "Final Cut," where D'Anna cites Gaeta's fact that no one on Galactica had asked to muster out. Until New Caprica, of course. The only formal training we've seen is the pilot training.

And will the fleet ever see a commander not named Adama? What an interesting episode! [Smile]
 
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
 
oh I most definitely agree it was an amazing episode. While the President and Adama concern me, I think the writing was excellent. I thought they did a great job tackling a tough issue. While on one hand, you can't have members of the military in a mutiny...particularly during war time, on the other you don't want to turn your civilization into a dictatorship.
 
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
But they kind of already were a dictatorship anyway. I mean, the military is the dominant force, pretty much...and in their situation, it kind of has to be.

I love how they never make anyone entirely likeable in this show. It's fun!

-pH
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
I agree. The republic that was the Twelve Colonies of Kobol died with the Attack and we've been in military dictatorship ever since. But yes, in this current state of near species extinction anything to preserve the Human race is ok.
 
Posted by Marlozhan (Member # 2422) on :
 
While I do think that the President and Adama could have put more energy and discussion into how to solve the problem (like Roslyn finally did in the end), I don't see Adama's actions as being like a dictatorship--not with their current circumstances. Adama had a point when talking to Chief. I think we underestimate the importance of following orders in the military, especially when the entire race depends on this one military. People DO get killed when orders are disobeyed. The people are forgetting how likely it could still be for the Cylons to show up. They used to have to jump ALL the time. How critical it is that they are prepared for this again.

They need to talk about how to solve their colony problems, and I like that they did, but it is very important that everyone remembers that the whole species is at stake here. They don't have any room for mistakes. If there ever were extenuating circumstances in any civilization, this is it.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
But it is interesting to point out the dictatorship is a benevolent one. They are still trying to keep democracy alive and breathing. Maybe not up and jogging around, but breathing.

One of the things that irked me was how the President did not simply remove Cain from command in Season 2. She's the commander and chief for frak's sake, what was up with that? However, a civilian leader's power is only plausible when that power is backed by a strong and loyal military. A military that has more people loyal to the civilian government than are loyal to a commander. Pegasus was the power in the fleet at that moment. Roslin could not remove her from command because there were more people loyal to Cain than there were to her and Adama. Well more people with the really big guns that is.

Anyways, my point is that yes, they are esstentially operating under a dictatorship with a herditary command structure developing. Yet I see the reluctance and hesitation that both Adama and Roslin have with this situation. Even though a completely working democracy is not necessarily in the fleet's best interest at the moment, they want it to stay alive enough that when they reach Earth or whenever, it will still be around to take over.

You are seeing the lessons of New Caprica and the election of Baltar to the Presidency starting to come full circle.

Now if I may bring this in, all of this has happened before...

Imagine that mankind experiences the same situation with Earth and last remnants of humanity launch into space fleeing a war ravaged planet. Now imagine that in those days ships did not have FTL's, so the journey from Earth to Kobol took decades or even centuries. Multiple Generations of man would live, be born and die in the fleet before reaching their destination. Take Alpha Centari, the closest galaxy with planets to Earth right now that we know about.

This episode I think highlights the beginnings of how the tribal/colonial system of government came to happen on Kobol and eventually the 12 colonies as well. Within a generational fleet like that a ruling class could easily spring out of the original political elite. From there it is a very short distance to make the jump to aristocracy.

But Kobol was ruled by living, breathing Gods. When did that happen? This is why I say Earth was the starting point. Think about Helo and Sharon's baby. Add those genetics into the mix of the people that become the ruling class, then aristocracy and you create the potential for individuals laying claim to the title of Gods. Or of course the other idea that I said earlier of the Earth Cyclons being immortal and eventually growing into the concept, etc.

What if Adama and Roslin instead of listening to the chief they had decided to go the other direction.....for the good of mankind? It really was a brillant episode. You can see RM and company showing us how small decisions and a refusal to see what is happening around you can lead into all kinds of unintended consequences.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
according to wikipedia my original hypothesis is correct about the Colonials being a fragmented collection of nation-states-planets before finally uniting as one federated United Nations. just something to think about.

I do hope when they reach Earth itll be 2060 Earth.... or....


2552
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
according to wikipedia my original hypothesis is correct about the Colonials being a fragmented collection of nation-states-planets before finally uniting as one federated United Nations. just something to think about.

Where on Wikipedia? I went to the BSG Wikipedia and I couldn't find it.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
look under 12 colonies.
 
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
 
so am I the only one that thinks encouraging the Chief to lead the union is a bad idea because it potentially puts him in the position of mutinying again? or at the very least makes him too involved in two opposing sides of the issue...

Basically, as an enlisted man he can't disobey orders, but a civilian strike is one of the valid tools of a union. However, as was shown in this very episode, the solution when a civilian refuses to work (in this situation) is to bring in the equivalent of military scabs... but when the leader of the military scabs is also the leader of the union he's either gonna be leery to strike because his already overworked people would have to pick up the slack, or he's going to be put in other bad situations where potentially he and his wife could be executed...

I think the episode brought up a lot of good points, though an earlier poster also brought up some good points: what are the people on the non-industrial ships doing with all their time? I'm sure some of them are employed doing non-heavy work (food preparation/storage, textile work etc... but it's an interesting question). If there was a definate end in sight then the pidgeon-holing would be a lot more tolerable, even if it's unfair. People can bear the unfortunate, but optimal solution for maybe a year or two (or more) if they have a definate end in sight, but since Earth could feasibly be generations away, this is definately an issue that would have to come up eventually. Another big and related issue is what will happen for the specialized fields once the journey is finally over? If all the architects have been weeded out of the population to run ship's factories, who will build the new settlements on Earth? We already saw some of this on New Caprica where all structures were basically either grounded ships or lean-to hovels...

Finally, this episode made me wonder how much the general populus knows about Baltar and his betrayal... for whatever reason I was under the impression that everyone thought him a traitor for his actions on New Caprica (even if they didn't know all the details) Even if his book has/had some valid points I doubt much of the population would take much stock in it. Hate/distrust fades slowly, even now decades after their demise much of the world population would outright disregard works by figures such as hitler and Stalin... yet perhaps months after a similar betrayal of humanity there is a seemingly large underground movement for people seemingly in support of Baltar? Maybe I'm just overestimating how much the populus would know about his actions and how many of them would still support him somehow (makes me think that they should make it a very public trial so that everyone knows the depth of his betrayal etc)
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
look under 12 colonies.

Thanks for that. Very interesting. So it looks like the 12 colonies were not as unified as I thought after leaving Kobol.

From Wikipedia: "As such, the Colonial Government made up of the Presidency and the Quorum was meant to be less of a unified one as seen in the original series and more of an alliance of independent members, like NATO or the United Nations."

Actually this goes a long way to explaining why Roslin did not just simply remove Cain from command. This bit would make me assume that the connection between the Military and the Civilian government is not as rigid as I was thinking.

If anyone else would like to the read the full entry, you can find it here.
 
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
 
quote:
yet perhaps months after a similar betrayal of humanity there is a seemingly large underground movement for people seemingly in support of Baltar? Maybe I'm just overestimating how much the populus would know about his actions and how many of them would still support him somehow (makes me think that they should make it a very public trial so that everyone knows the depth of his betrayal etc)
Don't forget, Baltar isn't the only person who worked with the Cylons. My guess is many people see him as someone who did what he had to do to keep him and everyone else alive. Also, right now people are upset about the conditions...and are feeling like the ruling class treats them like second class citizens. My guess is that Baltar wouldn't have much support with the upper class, but I could understand why the lower classes would support him.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Historically that is how tyrants are born. They subvert and convert the underclass, use them to over throw the upper class and gain power. Hitler wrote Mein Kampf in jail. I don't think that Baltar's plan is to regain power. He hated it while he had it, but his cult of personality truly gives him unlimited potential. Even from a prison cell.
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ReddwarfVII:
Historically that is how tyrants are born. They subvert and convert the underclass, use them to over throw the upper class and gain power. Hitler wrote Mein Kampf in jail. I don't think that Baltar's plan is to regain power. He hated it while he had it, but his cult of personality truly gives him unlimited potential. Even from a prison cell.

When I heard the title of Baltar's book, all I could think of was Mein Kampf. "My Triumphs and My Failures" does sound a bit like "My Struggle".
 
Posted by Damien.m (Member # 8462) on :
 
I dont like this article At all... But depending on how you look at it its either really good news or really bad news...

Getting 22 Episodes Could Mean Cancellation For 'Battlestar Galactica'

Usually getting additional episodes in a season is a good thing for a television series. But if SciFi Channel opts to increase its fourth season order of "Battlestar Galactica" from 13 episodes to 22, it could very well mean the end of the line for that channel's signature series.

A source close to the network tells SyFy Portal that if an additional nine episodes are ordered, it will be SciFi Channel's way of telling executive producers Ronald D. Moore and David Eick to use those additional episodes to wrap it up.....

Heres the link: http://www.syfyportal.com/news423319.html
 
Posted by Marlozhan (Member # 2422) on :
 
Even though this is just rumor, I find myself suddenly irritated at the general American fanbase. Why is it that the best shows (this one, Firefly) get the worst ratings, while the shallowest ones (IMHO) get the best ratings, like all those reality shows and run-of-the-mill sitcoms? I know, the SciFi channel is not known for always having the best shows, so maybe people don't tune in, but it doesn't make me feel any better.
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
Peepul are dumm.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Well, not a whole lot of people have the SciFi channel to begin with...
 
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
If BSG lasts only four seasons, I'll be okay with that. I mean, really, does anyone want them to drag it on forever? That may work to some degree with episodic shows like Star Trek, but something as plot-based as BSG needs to come to an end sometime, preferably before it gets old.
 
Posted by Marlozhan (Member # 2422) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Jon Boy:
If BSG lasts only four seasons, I'll be okay with that. I mean, really, does anyone want them to drag it on forever? That may work to some degree with episodic shows like Star Trek, but something as plot-based as BSG needs to come to an end sometime, preferably before it gets old.

I agree, but I want the show to come to an end because the story has been told, and because the writers are satisfied with where they have gone. I don't want it to end because the $$ isn't coming in sufficiently due to lack of viewership. I understand the economics behind it, but it doesn't mean I have to like it.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I am very upset that I just found out about the Battlestar Galactica and Philosophy volume they're publishing - the call for abstracts ends tomorrow. [Frown]

This should be really interesting, when it finally gets published; I'm thinking late next year. The final drafts of the accepted papers are due 1 December, but I'm not banking on a quick turn-around.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
I think they dropped back down to 13 episodes because for two reasons. One, the creators have said that they liked the original 13 episode format since they could give more time and energy to each episode. Two, with the new series "Caprica" coming out they have to split their time between the two shows.

[ March 01, 2007, 03:29 AM: Message edited by: Telperion the Silver ]
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
As far as I know, "Caprica" has been put on the back burner for quite some time. There's no official start date, and it seems like they're starting from scratch.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Actually, I too would be just fine if they finished up BSG with 4 seasons. As long as they bring the story to a conclusion and answer the questions and mystery they built, that's just fine.

Also, while I am very interested to Caprica, I am less interested in seeing both Caprica and BSG on TV at the same. Quality suffers when those who are in charge have to keep splitting their attention between two many series. Star Trek is a prime example of that. Let BSG end, then bring us Caprica.
 
Posted by Marlozhan (Member # 2422) on :
 
Everything Reddwarf said.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
::Spoiler Warning::
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By the way, Scifi has released some pictures online of Crossroads Part 2. One of the pictures is of Roslin dressed very nicely in front of a background that looks very snazzy as well. Then there is also a picture of Caprica and Baltar holding Hera. Both Cap and Balt are very well dressed and standing in a snazzy locale too. Looks like the stage of the opera house on Kobol. But here's the weird part, the background behind Baltar and Caprica and the background behind Roslin look like the same place. [Confused] [Dont Know] Someone suggested that it is a dream sequence, but it also could be a projection/mental sequence.

The Baltar/Caprica pic can be found here.

The Roslin pic can be found here.

Take a look if you dare and judge for yourself. I don't know what to think really. Roslin a cylon? That would just make my brain hurt.
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::Spoiler Warning End::

[ March 03, 2007, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: ReddwarfVII ]
 
Posted by Counter Bean (Member # 10176) on :
 
Rotation of personnel throughout the fleet makes sense, if you only have a few thousand human beings you need them all to be as useful as possible. Also their is a good chance you would find skills and talents that people were unaware of. The balance between military order and civilian democracy in the fleet must of necessity be a hybrid of the two, however one thing we must remember, naval law is the product of centuries of practicality, what works in a close confined and high stress situation. So deviating too far from that is a recipe for disaster.

Does anyone else find the 'bowels of the ship' technology a bit of a stretch? I mean come on, really this did not look like 21st century or even 20th century tech, this was pure 19th century stuff on a star ship. I half expected to see coal furnaces with sweat covered men shoveling to bring the hyper drive up to speed.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
"Maelstrom" tonight! WOO! I can't wait for this episode and I have less than 11 hours left to see it! [Smile]
 
Posted by Michiel (Member # 7649) on :
 
RedDwarf: you should check out some of the post of this person
http://forums.scifi.com/index.php?showuser=2901330
he writes in a very heterodox, intelligent way about BSG and some of his thoughts seem to dovetail nicely with yours....
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
what...
 
Posted by Kasie H (Member # 2120) on :
 
So.....is she dead?
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
Looks like.

--j_k
 
Posted by TrapperKeeper (Member # 7680) on :
 
What does the casting say for the next episodes? What about next season? is she included in the cast?

Whats going on!?!

You cant kill off a leading character! Thats against the rules!
 
Posted by Kasie H (Member # 2120) on :
 
Or is she a cylon?
 
Posted by Kasie H (Member # 2120) on :
 
A friend from work says rumor has it she wasn't on the set for the remainder of this season.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Must... not... look.... must remain unspoiled....
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
I feel quite certain she's a cylon.
 
Posted by Michiel (Member # 7649) on :
 
hm. Well that was kind of....perplexing....
 
Posted by Counter Bean (Member # 10176) on :
 
Looks like she is one messed up lady. Definately a set up for a come back, why wax so elequently about her past just too kill her off. I mean it is not like she isn't white... oh wait that is LOST, sorry...
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
She supposedly has a destiny.

For all of it, both the strange connections, Leobon's prophecies, that new prophet's prophecies, everything together, for it all to end right here with her sudden death would be a tragedy.

It would also be totally in keeping with the real world. That's how a real f***'ed up person would die, believing in their destiny and what not.

But this is television. This isn't real life, and all of these foreshadowings must go somewhere. I mean, they've spent like three full hours throughout the series talking about this, multiple entire episodes, and for it to just... stop here can't be the ending they intend.

She'll be back.

Something crazy is going to happen.

We'll be shocked.

I mean, they've Chekov's Gun'd this destiny thing to the limit. There will be more, in some way or shape. We'll find out what her destiny is.

Even if she IS permenantly dead, we'll find a twist somewhere.

This is not the end, regardless of the final outcome.

Things should be interesting from now on, though.
 
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
 
I have a feeling the Dream Leoben was neither a dream, nor Leoben, but a third sentient being, and that Starbuck is neither dead or alive, but in a plane of existance with the Gods, or "beings of light."
 
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
 
Doesn't look like that particular body's coming back from an explosion like the one we just saw.

Of course, that doesn't rule out the possibility that Starbuck is one of the final five and will awaken somewhere in a new body. On the other hand, what if she's some sort of anti-Cylon, with the same ability to resurrect, but without being part of the Cylon groups we've seen before? That could be interesting.

Or, she's just dead. Real life's like that, as unfortunate as that is. I certainly hope we find out more about her "destiny." And I hope we see her picture next to Kat.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Hot Dog watching Starbuck sleep was almost exceedingly voyeuristic. And creepy, to some extent.
 
Posted by Counter Bean (Member # 10176) on :
 
I am wondering how Starbuck failed to report the seer as a possible Cylon, with the inside information on Starbuck's captivity it seemed like the obvious conclusion to me.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
maybe because shes fraked up in the head?

And Adama wreched his little boat. [Frown]
 
Posted by Damien.m (Member # 8462) on :
 
Anyone else notice Starbucks hand making its way towards the ejection handle? The pressure was supposed to be pretty high but after Cally and Ty's aventure anything is possible. That would mean though that something would have had to have picked her up as I doubt she would have survived that long in that pressure. Maybe the raider wasnt in her imagination at all...

After all the prophet said Leoben was coming and the dream Leoben said he wasnt actually Leoben which I think might meam that he may have been on the raider.
 
Posted by Miro (Member # 1178) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by 0Megabyte:
...Chekov's Gun'd...

Definition?
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
quote:
Hot Dog watching Starbuck sleep was almost exceedingly voyeuristic. And creepy, to some extent.
I dunno, she was pretty loud. I didn't think he was being creepy. I just thought he was woken up by Starbuck.
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
For Miro:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChekhovsGun

Any device, tool or weapon, particularly a Forgotten Superweapon or Applied Phlebotinum that is introduced conspicuously and will become very, very important later on.

From playwright Anton Chekhov's saying that if a gun is shown mounted on the wall in Act I, someone better have taken it down and used it by Act III.

This trope is probably also related to some of the broader interpretations of Retirony.

Also known as "The Law Of Conservation Of Detail." When used properly, following this rule will prevent Asspulls that jar and grate on the viewer. It can, however, turn out to be a Red Herring after all.

------

Basically, they've talked so much about the destiny that if they don't have some kind of conclusion to it, it would be foreshadowing that leads nowhere.

And since they spent, like, a whole bunch of episodes talking about her destiny, and the connections within, for them to drop it right now without any more would be impossible. Too much effort.

Conservation of Detail, man. Conservation of Detail.
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by 0Megabyte:
[QB] For Miro:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChekhovsGun

Any device, tool or weapon, particularly a Forgotten Superweapon or Applied Phlebotinum that is introduced conspicuously and will become very, very important later on.

From playwright Anton Chekhov's saying that if a gun is shown mounted on the wall in Act I, someone better have taken it down and used it by Act III.

And here I thought it might be a Star Trek reference.

--j_k
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Anytime now iTunes.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
The podcast's apparently up.
 
Posted by Damien.m (Member # 8462) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Carrie:
The podcast's apparently up.

Yeah, and having listened to it I think that....um....well Shes really dead!!!!!

I am not impressed. At all.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
7 pm at night and iTunes still does not have it up. I mean come on people, I want to play nice and buy my eps like a good boy, but COME ON!!!!
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by T_Smith:
I have a feeling the Dream Leoben was neither a dream, nor Leoben, but a third sentient being, and that Starbuck is neither dead or alive, but in a plane of existance with the Gods, or "beings of light."

I think the Dream Leoben was the same entity as Head Six and Head Baltar.

Was the kid Kara kept seeing herself as a child or was it Kasie?
 
Posted by Marlozhan (Member # 2422) on :
 
So, I just listened to the podcast about Adama destroying his model ship. Turns out that was a genuine reaction to Kara being killed. I don't mean he was just really into his character, I mean he was personally upset at the scriptwriters for cutting her. So, they did not expect him to break his ship.

AND, that ship was a genuine museum model on loan, and it was worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. I guess the props guys about peed their pants when he did that. But it sure made for great drama.

Also, at the end of the podcast, Ron did say to all the "Starbuck fans" not to jump ship yet, because they had quite the tale to tell. There must be more in store for Kara, though I don't think it will be until next season (or a possible cliff-hanger this season), and that she is either dead, or in some other dimension.

But for the whole cast to be that upset about her being written off (Ron said the whole cast was upset), she must be gone either permanently, or for a long time, or just have very limited screentime left. They can't just completely cut her from the series, though, not after all the buildup. That would just be bad storytelling, IMO. They just CAN'T.
 
Posted by TrapperKeeper (Member # 7680) on :
 
Sounds like rumors to me (regarding adamas reaction and the ship). He had a genuine angry reaction to learning that she was being written off while on camera?? While doing a scene about grieving for her? And destroyed some museum piece? I just dont think so.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Adamas ship actually got destroyed several times before.
 
Posted by Damien.m (Member # 8462) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TrapperKeeper:
Sounds like rumors to me (regarding adamas reaction and the ship). He had a genuine angry reaction to learning that she was being written off while on camera?? While doing a scene about grieving for her? And destroyed some museum piece? I just dont think so.

No they were filming a scene where Adama is working on the ship and placing the piece that Kara gave to him on it. He just kind of did it. It wasnt written before hand and he just reacted in the way that he thought Adama would actually react. The ship was really on loan too. And it did cost a couple of hundred thousand dollars.
 
Posted by Marlozhan (Member # 2422) on :
 
What I said was on the podcast by Ron himself. I heard it myself. It wasn't a rumor. Listen to the podcast. After he wrecked it, the props guys kind of wished they knew he was going to do it, because they would have built him a fake ship to break, so the museum piece didn't get destroyed.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Podcast = true. I don't think Mrs. Ron would have been so eager to tell the story if it hadn't happened. [Smile]
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
where are these podcasts?
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
It's possible that Kara will be back, but played by someone else. Maybe the young Kara we saw earlier?
 
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
I'm downloading the podcast now. She'd better not be Really Dead or I'll be Really Disappointed in the BSG storytellers.

(An aside... I love mrs. ron. She cracks me up to no end on the podcasts. She was great during the roundtable.)
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
I think she IS Really Dead.

But Ron does hint a bit that this is not the end of her "destiny" thing, and that her actions here will help directly bring about the finding of Earth of something.

The destiny thing should continue. At least it had better. If her "great destiny" was just to randomly kill herself, then spending as long as they did was pointless.

Now, if they'd revealed at the end that it was all a lie, somehow, at the end of this episode, that could have been a good twist, if it had revealed some other crazy thing, say, about the Head Six/Gaius or something.
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
quote:
Was the kid Kara kept seeing herself as a child or was it Kasie?
I'm inclined to believe that the girl is supposed to be young Kara, even though the actress looks nothing like the photo in her mother's album.

My brother commented that the "because you're my daughter" line would have been better had it been "because you're special," mostly because the latter would reference an earlier scene in this episode, while the former sounds like a throwback to "Hand of God."

Blayne, here

The bit about the model ship is near the end.

I think it's interesting that he says this episode is the end of act II / beginning of act III in a larger sense.

--j_k
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
I'm on the fence about her being dead. I haven't listened to the podcast yet, so I haven't heard all of that.

The thing is, actors are usually kept in the dark about story lines as much as the fans are. The reason for that is that the nature of their job and how they get jobs makes them loose cannons. Whether or not Kara is really dead, I guarantee that Katie Sackoff has something in her contract that allows them to bring her back at will. Starbuck may be at the end of her screen time, but everything that I have read leads me to believe that Ms Sackoff is not at the end of her contract.

Also the dialogue in the final scene between Kara and her mother leads me to believe that there was something specific that she told Kara that she was going to do, ie her destiny.

Just throwing this out there. Kara "Starbuck" Thrace....child of one of the five? Father was a five and human mother? Did you guys catch that both Hera and Kara are having nightly nightmares? Hera is definately a child of destiny because of her heritage. I don't know, but that would certainly give them an ability to bring her back.

FYI, I'm listening to the podcast now and he is talking pretty freely about the fact that Kara basically kills herself. She is sounding pretty dead.
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
quote:
Just throwing this out there. Kara "Starbuck" Thrace....child of one of the five? Father was a five and human mother? Did you guys catch that both Hera and Kara are having nightly nightmares? Hera is definately a child of destiny because of her heritage. I don't know, but that would certainly give them an ability to bring her back.
I had that thought, too -- but remember that one of the major themes of season 1 (or 2?) was that the Cylons couldn't have children. That theory wouldn't make sense unless the ability to reproduce was one of several things that distinguished the Five from the rest of the Cylon population.

--j_k
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by James Tiberius Kirk:
quote:
Just throwing this out there. Kara "Starbuck" Thrace....child of one of the five? Father was a five and human mother? Did you guys catch that both Hera and Kara are having nightly nightmares? Hera is definately a child of destiny because of her heritage. I don't know, but that would certainly give them an ability to bring her back.
I had that thought, too -- but remember that one of the major themes of season 1 (or 2?) was that the Cylons couldn't have children. That theory wouldn't make sense unless the ability to reproduce was one of several things that distinguished the Five from the rest of the Cylon population.

--j_k

Well.......yeah! [Wink] Actually that was where I was going with that. Remember that I think there's a good possibility that Lords of Kobol were cylons from Earth. I would assume that they figured out how to have children and that the BSG cylons on the cusp of that knowledge.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Ummm as I continue to listen to the podcast it really sounds like that she is dead. Kara's mom was preparing her for this death. Kara was seeing this sign that would signify her time to die.

Yeah, she is really dead. Just like Clark's dad on Smallville. She is gone.

At the end of the Podcast RM and MrsRon were asking Starbuck fans not to abandon ship, because they still had lots of story to tell. There was nothing in there that would give me any hope that Kara is coming back in any form.

If JK Rowling can kill Dumbledore, RM can kill Starbuck.
 
Posted by Marlozhan (Member # 2422) on :
 
Waay too much emphasis on destiny, just to accept the fact that you need to die for no apparent reason. Either there be a really good reason for her dying, (i.e. somehow it leads them to earth), or her influence will somehow have some monumental effect on events, such as her being in a spirit world, coming back, being a Cylon, etc.

I do think Starbuck is dead, but there is just too much build-up for her death to just mean, it's your time to die. How cheesy is it that your destiny is just to accept your death and give up on life, without trying?

Something else really important related to Starbuck is going to happen, I just don't know what. I think it will answer our questions about why her death was so important.
 
Posted by Puppy (Member # 6721) on :
 
I think the writers are just trying to make this temporary death seem more legit by taking it seriously in public [Smile]
 
Posted by Steve_G (Member # 10101) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ReddwarfVII:

If JK Rowling can kill Dumbledore, RM can kill Starbuck.

well, I don't think Dumbledore is really dead. His body was placed under a pheonix if I remember correctly. Certainly that is foreshadowing his glorious return in the final book.

I hope Starbuck isn't really dead. It seems a cheap way to kill her without adding any benefit to the fleet. The ejection seat handle had to be foreshadowing for a future return of Kara Thrace.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Well, I hold no hope of her return. Mourn her as you will, but she is gone. I do hope that her death will still serve some greater purpose. However, it does not seem likely this season.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
NO! NO no no no no!
[Cry]
She can't! But she is...

Such a good episode. Totally moved to tears.
I'm so impressed by the past five episodes of Season Three. Totally blown away.

I also think that the Leoben in Kara's head is the same being as head Six and head Baltar. I can only pray that she is one of the Final Five... But I also fear we've seen a Babylon 5 death, like Kosh... as soon as we've really gotten to know the person they are torn away.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
I found this cool theory at the SciFi forum:

quote:
From magicruss:

The thing is, the Final Five (unless there are two sets, one cylon and one other) predate the cylons by a few thousand years. The Temple of the Five was 4,000 years old (correct me if that's wrong). Therefore, she could be part of the Final Five and not be (technically) a current-version cylon. The fact that "this has happened before and will happen again" was repeated tonight gives further credence to the idea that perhaps humans were the "cylons" to the Lords of Kobol.

I love the combination of theological/spiritual elements and harder science at play in BSG. The universe is a mystery and we are far too small to really understand our place in it.


 
Posted by Damien.m (Member # 8462) on :
 
Part of new Sackhoff Interview.

Its small but heres the important part:

quote:
She says “I’m dead as far as I know” and goes on to say “As far as I know, the fate of Starbuck is completely changed. Her ship exploded and she didn’t pull the ejection thing.” The interesting thing is, she says she wasn’t there when they shot the footage of the hand near the ejection switch which goes to show, what the director and writers have planned may not have been divulged to Sackhoff during the shooting of the episode. In terms of Starbuck’s whole “destiny” story, Sackhoff says she’s as confused as the rest of us about that. It seems as though she’s on a need-to-know basis in terms of the future of her character.
Any thoughts?
 
Posted by Marlozhan (Member # 2422) on :
 
They wouldn't keep her in the dark unless they had something to hide. If she was to no longer be on the set forever, then they would let her know, instead of leaving her in the dark. They could do this, while still having some contract that allows them to bring her back if they changed her mind.

But they don't need to change their mind. They already know that they are going to use her again, though I don't know for what part in the show. They are just really trying to keep this secret, and really surprise us when this actress does appear on BSG again. I'm convinced of this.
 
Posted by TrapperKeeper (Member # 7680) on :
 
If you keep her in the dark about whether or not she will have a job next season, she is far more likely to find a new job and be unavailable when BSG does need her.
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
You know, I made the mistake of looking at Patriot Resource for spoilers.

Because, you know, I simply can't stand waiting.

What I read, and what might very possibly be true, is something that I now regret looking at, because, to be honest, I want to see the EPISODES and feel the shock and surprise, not find out without it.

In other words, I really wanna see the next three episodes.

Now. I have three hours, I'd happily use them!

Anyway, some very, er... interesting rumors...
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
How much of Lee's about-face did Lampkin actually plan and how much was in the making? I wonder, especially with that last bit.

And I loved the whole klepto bit. [Smile]
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Oh, and another question: Are all the people with accents from Aerelon?
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
No just the liverpool dock workers english accent people, different places have different accents, Baltars Oxford english is probly a result of rying to soften his accent.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
But do we actually know that?
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Im pretty sure we have seen people non capricans with distinct accents before and it would make the MOST sense considering that theyre on different planets.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
I'm not sure how I feel about Lampkin and I definitely don't like that Lee is trying to defend Baltar. At this point I don't think Baltar is worth defending. I mean, he should have a fair trial and all but I don't think there's anything about him to defend. He screwed them over when he was president, he betrayed them when the cylons had him, what more is there so say? He deserves to remain locked up, at the very least.
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
Yeah, but one thing some of the folks on Galactica think he's guilty of, he actually isn't. He didn't tell the Cylons where New Caprica was.
 
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
No, he just gave a cylon a nuke and the sigature from that explosion told the other cylons where they were.

He's just guilty of mass murder when humanity is already on the verge of extinction.
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
Did anyone else tear up when the population count read 41,399 this time?
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
well ild certainly not put all the blame on him, noone could know that the Cylons looked like Humans, wasnt she a lab assistent or something either somewhat legal or even if not legal not a treasonable offence given humanities situation at the time?
 
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
Blayne: He knew she was a cylon when he gave her the nuke that blew up Cloud 9.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
My friend just pointed this out to me:

Did anyone else recognize who Lampkin is?


It's Badger!! From Firefly [Big Grin]

It was bothering me all night and my friend only just made the connection for me.
 
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
I told my hubby it was Badger and he said "who?"
 
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
 
Pix, I did the same thing and got the same response. When I explained who Badger was, he looked at me like I was a sorry little person who needed to get a life. [Smile] It's so good to be a geek.

I'm certain that Lampkin did that whole thing to seduce Lee into being part of the defense team.
 
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
 
Lampkin is the best thing to hit BSG since the Pegasus. More Badger, please!
 
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
Now I can't read this thread anymore without thinking, "Badger badger badger badger mush-room mush-room!"

-pH
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
i meant he didnt know she was a cylon back when caprica wasnt glassed.
 
Posted by Friday (Member # 8998) on :
 
quote:
"Badger badger badger badger mush-room mush-room!"
Snaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake!!!

I really liked this episode, it almost made me forget that Starbuck is gone...
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Alcon:
It's Badger!! From Firefly [Big Grin]

Isn't that interesting. I pegged him as the ghost serial killer from Medium, and he was totally giving me the creeps the entire episode because of it. I must not have noticed his Badger-ness when I first saw him on Medium.
 
Posted by Damien.m (Member # 8462) on :
 
41,399...That killed, it really did.

I think its brilliant that Lees defending Baltar. It will be so much more dramatic when he proves Baltar innocent and Adama has to apologise.


Its soooo gonna happen. I mean its BSG for gods sake of course hes gonna be innocent!!!
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
This episode certainly is the best in awhile, at least in my opinion.

The episodes have been steadily, vastly improving since The Woman King (may no one ever remember it) and this one is my favorite yet.

Yes, the 41,399 really did kill me. I felt horrible, honestly.

The worst, though, was when Adama was looking through her files. I was actually crying by then. It was terribly sad. (But in the best possible way.)

I like the new lawyer. It's always great to see a great new character and he's one of them. Lee's actually doing something interesting now. I mean, this might actually be good for him. Or else it'll be bad for the fleet, which is always entertaining. I've always liked the "do what I believe the right thing is, damn anything like logic, damn the safety of the fleet, and damn pretty much everything!" side of him, and it's coming back. As Lee's gonna be a lawyer!
 
Posted by Jay (Member # 5786) on :
 
I think Starbuck ejected and the Cylon ship picked her up.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
who looked through whoms files.
 
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
Hims looked through shes files.
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Jay:
I think Starbuck ejected and the Cylon ship picked her up.

Starbuck did not eject. She died. Doesn't mean she'll stay dead, but she died.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
quote:
Its soooo gonna happen. I mean its BSG for gods sake of course hes gonna be innocent!!!
I'm not so sure about this. Even if Baltar dies, we'd still have Head Baltar. I think it's more likely that he'll be found guilty but will somehow not die/escape.
 
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
Unless her ejection seat is invisible, I'm pretty sure she was in the Viper when it blew.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Damien.m:
41,399...That killed, it really did.

I think its brilliant that Lees defending Baltar. It will be so much more dramatic when he proves Baltar innocent and Adama has to apologise.


Its soooo gonna happen. I mean its BSG for gods sake of course hes gonna be innocent!!!

Arg... [Wall Bash] [Razz] [Cool]
Except that we as the audience have seen the truth...he is personally responsible for the deaths of 50 billion people, the nuking of Cloud Nine and surrounding ships, and the fall of New Caprica.

If he gets off the hook it's not because he's innocent.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Thats what I still mean though, he was not intentionally responsible for the deaths of 50 billion people he was seduced to allow some random female who he thought was a corporate rival working in the defence ministry into access to the defence network, which he had designed from the get go in the first place. Actions that without a clear knowledge of colonial law we do not know the extent of its legality. He could not have possibly known Cylons could look like humans.
 
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
As soon as Baltar realized what he'd done, he was very scared of being caught and executed for high treason. He knew that allowing unauthorized personnel access to the defense mainframe was a pretty serious crime.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
He may not be directly responsible for the deaths of all those people. Really, he didn't know that she was a cylon.

However, he is guilty for giving an unauthorized person access to the defense ministry mainframe. That, in and of itself, is high treason. So in terms of guilt, he is not guilty of genocide, but of high treason. Both verdicts carry a sentence of death.

Now he is guilty of the theft of a nuclear weapon and giving it to an enemy combatant. Also high treason.

He is guilty of massive corruption in the government of New Caprica, but politicans rarely go to jail for corruption. They just get voted out of office.

As to the crimes committed by the occupation force on New Caprica, he surrendered. Therefore he is not directly responsible as he was simply a puppet leader. Not even in the case of the execution order because he signed at the point of a gun. Something that Caprica Six will testify about.

Me, I am predicting life in prison.
 
Posted by Andrew W (Member # 4172) on :
 
I predict that Baltar will be found not guilty, after brilliant legal defence, and all sorts of interesting stuff, but will shoot and kill the Admiral and his son, them himself, at a state dinner. Laura will then turn out to be a cylon, and nukes the whole fleet. In a predictable twist Adama, son and Baltar are also cylons and wake up on a base ship. Unexpectedly it turns out the entire fleet are all cylons who've actually been planted on the fake colonies by their uber-cylon masters to recreate (that's what the references to 'it's all happened before' are about) histories they have of the first time this happened with real humans, who escaped to earth, and they hope to follow them by recreating it all.

Or not.

But it's going to be a quantum leap of a cliff hanger, if every other series is anything to go by
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Whatever you do, don't read the spoilers at AICN.
 
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
I didn't even KNOW about the spoilers at AICN before now!

[Angst]
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Okay, whatever you do, ABSOLUTELY DO NOT GO TO AICN AND READ THE BSG SPOILERS! I'm telling you, it's not worth. This is huge! You want to wait and just watch this one unfold. I am telling you now, don't go and read them. Just turn off the computer and walk away. I know that it is dang tempting, but just don't it.

Carrie, I don't know why I did not listen to you in the first place. [Wall Bash] [Wall Bash] [Wall Bash] [Mad]
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Bwahahahahahahaha [Evil Laugh] [Evil Laugh] [Evil Laugh]
 
Posted by Marlozhan (Member # 2422) on :
 
I gave in. I couldn't help it. I went to AICN.

I can't believe Baltar is a Cylon!!! And Adama one of the Final Five???? I was blown away!!
 
Posted by Marlozhan (Member # 2422) on :
 
Okay, I lied. Bad joke. I refuse to go to AICN. I would love to look, but I would hate myself for it. I would much rather enjoy the show.
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
Oh, man.

The spoilers I read all seem to be true. At least, so far. And the preview for the next episode confirms all that I've seen.

Uh oh. I hate having been spoiled.

This is gonna be awesome!
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I'm about 10 minutes into the episode so far, and it's awesome.

And since when is Sam a nugget?
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
Since... now. Gotta have something for Mr. Starbuck to do, so why not?
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I guess...

I'm loving the Lampkin/Lee interaction so far (about halfway through). This is turning out to be one of the best episodes I've seen in ages.
 
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
 
MacDonell owned that jury stand, then she goes and owns the podium. She just might be the coolest broad in media. When she was asking Lee not to go there with the drugs, my knees were getting weak, and I was sitting down.

Is she in anything else worth seeing? I could listen to her talk and watch her act for days.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
How do you feel about Dances with Wolves?

---

In other news, I loved this episode and cannot wait for next week.
 
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
 
She has a supporting role in Donnie Darko, though she's nowhere near as interesting or forceful in that movie. But then, few roles are as good as the one she's playing now.

Um, I think I may have heard Anders say something very interesting at the end of the preview, but I'm not sure I heard right. I don't want to spoil it for anyone who doesn't watch the previews, so does anyone know where I can watch it again online?
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
You did hear it. [Smile]
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
What was that song Anders and Tigh heard??
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Rumour has it that it was "All Along the Watchtower" (Dylan's), but Bear McCreary has blogged about writing a "special musical moment" for the end of the season. [Dont Know]
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
It was interesting how the two people in love with Laura Roslin both lost their cool. I wonder if Roslin has any clue about how Tori feels.
 
Posted by Selran (Member # 9918) on :
 
Something that has been bugging me about the whole Baltar trial is didn't Roslin pardon every member of the human race?
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Baltar wasnt with the fleet at the time. And whose the 2 people in love with roselin again?
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
Adama and Tori.
 
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
 
I believe that Roslin pardoned everyone in the fleet. Baltar happened to be the one human being who wasn't with the fleet at the time.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
So what was wrong with Tori again?
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
Other than the fact that she hasn't so much as brushed her hair since she found out Roslin's cancer had returned, and the way she lashed out at the press corp? Nothing.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Well I saw that...
Just wondering if I missed something about what Lee knows about Tori. It was kinda noisy in my condo last night. [Smile]
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
quote:
Something that has been bugging me about the whole Baltar trial is didn't Roslin pardon every member of the human race?
This initially bothered me, but I'm now alright with it. I would love to see the exact wording she used in the pardon.

quote:
So what was wrong with Tori again?
I was under the impression that she was also hearing the music.
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
Yes. She is. And what Anders said is right.

And Anders hears the music too, right? At least, he indicated that early on.

We all can put two and two together.

God I hate being spoiled! I lost the chance to be shocked at Roslin's cancer, or any of the other parts of this episode! ::Cries:: I loved it, though.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
so if theyre all able to hear the music does that mean theyre the final 5?
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
Er, not necessarily.

But they all hear it. Anders is talking to multiple people. What does Anders have in common with anyone else?

He hears this mysterious music, as does Tori and Tigh.

It means that he might possibly be saying to them that he thinks the're cylons. That doesn't mean they ARE.
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
What I don't get is how AICN claims there are copies of the final eps all over the place. Speaking as someone with some small skills in the piratic arts, I find this a bit confusing. Has anyone here seen a source for the finale?
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
I dunno about the sources, but I know that the things I've been spoiled about came true.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
The spoilers came from someone who got their hands on a media "For Review Purposes" copy - the same way EW can review the episodes in advance.
 
Posted by Marlozhan (Member # 2422) on :
 
I bet Anders' comment in that trailer is meant to mislead us. The writers have been preparing us for earth-shattering secrets in the finale, so I doubt they would blow it all in a preview. There may be some truth to his comment, but I think there is some deliberate deceit in putting that clip in the trailer.
 
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
 
Yeah, I sort of figured it might look very different in context--sarcasm, maybe.
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
I don't think it's deceit, as such. I think they're going to find out that they're all Cylons, in a manner of speaking.

And I get the For Reviewer Purposes copy thing. But AICN said they were leaked all over the videocybersphere, so I'd expect to be able to find something in the torrentsphere. And yet: nada. Zilch. Gurnisht. Kloom.
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
Trust me, the idea that they're all cylons is NOT the big reveal.

There's an even bigger surprise in store. (hard to believe there's something bigger than a bunch of characters we know and love being Cylons, huh?)
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Oh, I hadn't heard that the videos themselves were out, just that some idiot told us all what's going to happen.

<-- is very very apprehensive about the upcoming surprise...
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
In other news, I would like to express my deep, new-found and abiding love for Romo Lampkin.
 
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
What was the line from Anders? I must've missed it. I mean, I could just watch that part again after work, but that would mean waiting.
 
Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :
 
Lisa, from Ron Moore's podcast, it appears Anders and Tori are having a "thing."
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
Really? The way she reacted to the press attacking Roslin seemed very personally protective.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
I thought it was meant to show how on edge she was personally. I didn't think it had anything to do with her relationship to Roslin.
 
Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :
 
I think that her auditory hallucinations are wearing away at her, as they are at Tigh and Anders...
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Reply tonight at 11pm... I'll be sure to pay extra close attention this time.
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
I can't believe with all those screeners flying around not a single person has bothered to upload them to a torrent site. I take it as a personal slight. <sniff>
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
*sniffs Lisa*
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
Ew. <Lisa shoos Tel away from her>
 
Posted by Damien.m (Member # 8462) on :
 
[Wall Bash] [Wall Bash] [Wall Bash] [Wall Bash] [Wall Bash] [Wall Bash] [Wall Bash] [Wall Bash]

BASTARD!

I dont get on well with this guy at school, we've had a few arguments every now and then and just plain dont like eachother. Well today in class me and my friend were in the middle of a casual conversation when I said something about a certain 'Lost' twist *hint: they're related*. So the guy turns around, apparently he hadnt seen this episode and started screaming at me! I tried to explain that this wasnt even a big twist, that it wasnt even the cliffhanger. I told him I was sorry and to stop making a big deal out of it. Then he looks at me and says in one sentance the cliffhanger to BSG.

I completly lost it. I nearly killed him. Ive never been in a fight before but I reeeeeally wanted to beat this guy.

So now I know what happens. I had avoided spoilers for weeks and all I had to do was last four more days. And that bastard messed it up. Ugh...
 
Posted by Flaming Toad on a Stick (Member # 9302) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Damien.m:
[Wall Bash] [Wall Bash] [Wall Bash] [Wall Bash] [Wall Bash] [Wall Bash] [Wall Bash] [Wall Bash]

BASTARD!

I dont get on well with this guy at school, we've had a few arguments every now and then and just plain dont like eachother. Well today in class me and my friend were in the middle of a casual conversation when I said something about a certain 'Lost' twist *hint: they're related*. So the guy turns around, apparently he hadnt seen this episode and started screaming at me! I tried to explain that this wasnt even a big twist, that it wasnt even the cliffhanger. I told him I was sorry and to stop making a big deal out of it. Then he looks at me and says in one sentance the cliffhanger to BSG.

I completly lost it. I nearly killed him. Ive never been in a fight before but I reeeeeally wanted to beat this guy.

So now I know what happens. I had avoided spoilers for weeks and all I had to do was last four more days. And that bastard messed it up. Ugh...

Ooooh, SPOILER FIGHT!
I'm considering starting that thread now, thanks.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
KIll him, Kill him now, Ill be you alleby.
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
I love how they're fracking with us.

The biggest spoiler... damn, I hate that it's happening so soon, but I suspected it'd happen sooner or later as soon as the story arc began. I wish theyd taken longer about it, though.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
I hate the fact that they're gonna leave us with such a bloody huge cliffhanger...
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
I know, that too.

But is it really going to be any bigger than last season's "humanity has lost. The cylons have won. Game over." cliffhanger?

Hmm. Maybe. I mean, this IS a pretty damn big series of events.
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
Stop.
 
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
Yes, please. It was bad enough when someone said, "Whatever you do, don't read the spoilers at AICN," but it's far worse that you seem tempted to dangle those spoilers in our faces.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Hey, at least I stopped there. [Smile]

---

I still have major love for Romo.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Breaking news: Season 4 may well be the end of BSG, stemming from the rumor that if SciFi ordered more than 13 hours/episodes, the caveat would be that the show would have to end.

The order has been extended: Story here. Is this the end?
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Gods damn, it's like Babylon 5 cancellation fears all over again...
 
Posted by Friday (Member # 8998) on :
 
I get the sense that many people would like BSG to go on indefinitely, but I think that the very structure of the series makes this a horrible idea. Sacrilege though it may sound, I almost hope that they do end the show after next season. Not cancel, mind you, but bring the show to it's natural end. I hope that the writers are given ample time to tie up loose ends and bring it all to an awesome and enlightening conclusion. BSG is a great show, but it as a series based on the search for Earth and the salvation of humanity it becomes meaningless if they never end up finding Earth and saving humanity.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
I'd like five seasons, but I can see the series ending with the fourth. Ron Moore has said that while he doesn't have the ending as planned out as JMS did with Bab5, he does have an outline as well as knowing that time it is on Earth when the Fleet arrives (or doesn't).
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
5 seasons, it HAS to last at least 5 seasons. Babylon sure the story WAS over at season 4 but nonetheless Babylon 5 without season 5 wouldve made me sad, season 5 is what tied all the loose ends and ended it satisfactory. Also there was the tonne of movies that JMS had the rights to so kept getting made.
 
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
(minor bab5 spoilers)

I would have liked bab5 to have been able to stretch season 4 into season 5 so we didn't spend so much time with the goofy tele-goths. They ruined season 5. And I'm still pissed at Claudia for not returning so she could persue her movie career. (WHAT movie career?) I didn't like lochley, the woman who replaced her.

(end bab5 spoilers)

Anyway, I want BSG to tie up one way or the other. I don't want it to run forever. A *good* story has an ending.
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
Man, oh man, I can see how it oculd end in season 4. I mean... oh never mind.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
I've been trying to imagine what the huge cliffhanger will be. I've not read any spoilers but I assume that 5 of our characters will be revealed as Cylons. But from what I've heard even that is nothing to what really happens.

Maybe they destroy Galactica?
Maybe they find Starbuck?
Maybe the Lords of Kobol/Cylon God are shown?
Maybe they find Earth!

Arrggg... all this waiting... killing me!
I love it!
[Monkeys]
 
Posted by Marlozhan (Member # 2422) on :
 
If they destroy Galactica, they'll have to change the name of the show. You can't watch Battlestar Galactica when there is no Battlestar Galactica in the show.
 
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
 
I'd be okay with the series ending after four seasons.

I mean, I love the show and want to continue to love it, forever. The likelihood of that decreases the longer the show tries to spin its story out. Quality inevitably drops over time. A lot of my favourite shows did not go on for more than four or five years. It could be a cultural thing, though. In Britain, most seasons of tv shows only have about six episodes, so four years is equivalent of one American season of 24 eps.

And then, as a veteran X-Files fan, (as an example of When Good Shows Go Bad, look no further) my attitude is - tell the story you want to tell in the least amount of episodes possible.

And don't go on for nearly ten years while you give the main characters a character transplant, kill the comic relief and then reward my loyalty by giving me a cop-out ending.

*Is still bitter*

I don't want to ever be bitter about Battlestar.
 
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
Prison Break isn't about breaking out of prison anymore. Jes' sayin'.
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
Telperion:

Why does it have to be just one of those choices?
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
Honestly, Adama is revealed to be the Son of God, therefor, Apollo is revealed to be the Grandson of God, humans are revealed to be able to breath in space, and they discover, before it blows up, that Galactica has its own soul, D'Anna takes it over and blows it up.

Also, Ewoks destroy the Cylons with starships made out of giant living trees. Then Mark Hamill shows up as an aged Luke Skywalker. Then Dirk Benedict appears, proclaims to be God, and says to Adama "Bill... I am your father!"
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Let it end I say, just complete the story first! Everything has to end sometime. That is the problem about television in the first place. Keeping people employed is more important than the story. That's movies will always be more successful because (ideally) you have begin with an end in mind. I would love to more show like BSG where the production staff have plotted out the story arch and then produce television episodes that tell that story.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
needs 5 seasons, 4 to get to earth and 5 to finish off the cylons and allow colonials to integrate into earth society.
 
Posted by Steve_G (Member # 10101) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
needs 5 seasons, 4 to get to earth and 5 to finish off the cylons and allow colonials to integrate into earth society.

Shouldn't be too hard to integrate since they already wear neckties and drive trucks and hummers.
They might have a hard time getting used to using our cordless phones and paper with 90 degree corners though. [Smile]
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
Well, the main problem with integration depends on the time period.

I hope he does it in modern time.

I know they screwed it up with Galactica '80, but wouldn't it be justice to see these guys do it right? That would be, like, the crown jewel of the series I think, taking the crappiest part and turning it into the best.

Anyway, the problem would be that most of these people would be instant celebrities.

"You're of the Rag-Tag Fleet?! Wow!"

Anyone with any skills not replicated in our society would be of the highest value as instructors. That includes anyone who knwos anything about how to build said technology, how to work it, how to find and refine tylium - basically, the knuckledraggers would be some of the most highly sought after people in the universe, to teach us how to build these things.

Politicians like Tory and Roslin, except for their political power over the Colonials, would be worthless because, of course, we have PLENTY of politicians. We don't have plenty of guys who can actually build a space-superiority fighter like Tyrol and crew did in season 2.

It'd be an great shift, to see the knuckledraggers be the most highly valued.

Of course, the general remnants of the Colonial would be close behind in importance, as they know a lot too, and have graet knowledge probably.

The rest of them? Probably fame for just being Colonials. And useful to tell us anythin they know about Colonial life.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Such technology would obviously be shared wiht the other major powers depending on how big a threat the Cylons still are. In Actuality, Im not sure if they could integrate, like why not remain their own nation? We have plenty of experiance in creating nations, why not one more.

Although I MUST point out that space suporiority fighters do not seem to hard to build, the only reaosn why we dont build them because why would we? Also the matter of the militerization of space being illegal under international law (might change if cyclons come a calling...) All it is, is a fighter sealed up and with a couple of additional thrusters for newtonian maneuvering. Not too big of a leap forward from the JSF, Su-47, Mig 1.44 and Jian-13.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
quote:
Although I MUST point out that space suporiority fighters do not seem to hard to build, the only reaosn why we dont build them because why would we?
Blayne, take some physics and engineering classes.

Please, please, please, please take some physics and engineering classes. The amount you live in a fantasy world about this stuff is killing me! Honestly, you sound like some of my friends and I did when we were in elementary school!

Battlestar Galactica might be the most realistic space sci-fi show I've ever seen, but it's still so far from reality it ain't even funny.

Their artificial gravity, FTL, and the amount of energy they get from tilium are all just sorta glossed over and all impossible even in highly, highly theoretical physics. There is no existing or theorized fuel that gives that much thrust for that period of time for that clearly small mass. Not even anti=matter!
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Alcon:
quote:
Although I MUST point out that space suporiority fighters do not seem to hard to build, the only reaosn why we dont build them because why would we?
Blayne, take some physics and engineering classes.

Please, please, please, please take some physics and engineering classes. The amount you live in a fantasy world about this stuff is killing me! Honestly, you sound like some of my friends and I did when we were in elementary school!

Battlestar Galactica might be the most realistic space sci-fi show I've ever seen, but it's still so far from reality it ain't even funny.

Their artificial gravity, FTL, and the amount of energy they get from tilium are all just sorta glossed over and all impossible even in highly, highly theoretical physics. There is no existing or theorized fuel that gives that much thrust for that period of time for that clearly small mass. Not even anti=matter!

Alcon, while I agree with you in spirit, chill out man. Blayne was talking spefically about fighters and besides we already hashed this whole thing out pages ago on this thread.

I agree with you when it comes to the really advanced stuff like FTL, anti-grav and etc, but I do disagree with you on the fighter. With a little more advanced knowledge and training, we really are not that far away from BSG in that area. And you know what? If it weren't for the aforementioned treaties I would realistically wager that we would already have fighter planes with both in atmosphere and out of atmosphere ability. I think that they would still be prototypes, but we would have them.

Actually.....who says that we don't already? I would not doubt that someone somewhere is working on a design right now. [Eek!] [Wink] We already had/have spy plane that fly in the upper areas of the atmosphere. The last I read the biggest roadblock was engines that could work in both environments. Solve that problem (mind you, it's a BIG! problem) and there you go. Modern fighter plane already reach speeds that would allow them to reach an escape velocity, even going straight up like the shuttle does.

[ March 23, 2007, 05:43 AM: Message edited by: ReddwarfVII ]
 
Posted by Jay (Member # 5786) on :
 
HUGE SPOILER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Want to know the identities of The Final Five?

SyFy Portal has revealed some major spoilers for the Season 3 finale of "Battlestar Galactica."

If you can't wait for Sunday, check out www.SyFyPortal. com (top story).
http://www.syfyportal.com/news423442.html
 
Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :
 
Of course, this only means the first four BELIEVE they are the Final Five... they be something totally different (Lords of Light?).... who knows?
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Damn you Jay... damn you to hell!
must. not. click. on. link.
 
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ReddwarfVII:
I do disagree with you on the fighter. With a little more advanced knowledge and training, we really are not that far away from BSG in that area. And you know what? If it weren't for the aforementioned treaties I would realistically wager that we would already have fighter planes with both in atmosphere and out of atmosphere ability. I think that they would still be prototypes, but we would have them.

Actually.....who says that we don't already? I would not doubt that someone somewhere is working on a design right now. [Eek!] [Wink] We already had/have spy plane that fly in the upper areas of the atmosphere. The last I read the biggest roadblock was engines that could work in both environments. Solve that problem (mind you, it's a BIG! problem) and there you go. Modern fighter plane already reach speeds that would allow them to reach an escape velocity, even going straight up like the shuttle does.

wow... no. I just want to clear this up: While we are certainly nearer to the fighter technology than FTL and other technologies out there it is still in the realm of physical impossibility (at least on any concievable near-term scale).

1) Atmospheric flight... with very small unmanned, very experimental craft we can get in the low hypersonic range (<mach 10) while low earth orbital velocity is about >mach25... so no we do not have fighters that can go fast enough to escape earth's gravity. On top of that we only have 2 planes at the moment that can accelerate straight up (the F15 and the B1B) and neither very fast or very long (a few seconds at most)

2) Rocket flight is needed for anything out of the atmosphere and if factors of magnitude less efficient than air-breathing propulsion. Rocket-propelled craft to leave earth's gravity have to be 85%+ propellant (your fuel tank would be 5-6x as massive as your craft, and would probably be much larger in volume (since propellant is a lot less dense than the structure of a craft) I suggest you go down to cape canaveral and walk down the length of the saturn 5 to see how big a rocket it took to get to the moon.

3) yes, we obviously have manned space flight, and there are even plans in work for manned military craft that would do short stints in orbit but the important thing to note about these is:
a) they still require massive rockets to launch them up to orbit
b) they have little-no maneuvering capabilities while in orbit
c) they certainly would not be able to dip into the admosphere and go back out
d) they would almost certainly not be able to carry much/anything in the way of armaments.

also note that all the comments about rocket technology are based on us already being quite near the physical limit of how efficient these systems can be. This is not the kind of thing that can be revolutionized with some new technology. Liquid Hydrogen/Liquid Oxygen is about the most efficient fuel combination in existence, and we are already pushing what you can phyiscally extract from that chemical composition (and we were doing pretty well with it even back in the days of the Saturn 5)

most people that haven't studied this stuff specifically really don't know how to grasp the scale of spaceflight which is factors of magnitude from basically all your frames of reference in terms of terrestrial technology.

I'll admit that a lot of what I like about BSG is the grittyness and "reality" of the technology and the like, but as Alcon mentioned, it is definately based on a handful of issues which are physical impossibilities, but we just have to suspend our disbelief for.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
Finale in 5 hours 11 minutes and counting!!!
 
Posted by Friday (Member # 8998) on :
 
And several months of waiting for closure after the cliffhanger ending in 6 hours 7 minutes and counting.

[Wink]

[ March 25, 2007, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: Friday ]
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
I don't get to watch it until tomorrow morning. Which means I'll be avoiding this thread like the plague until then.
 
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
We will email you....


just kidding. [Wink]
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
I have spoiled myself to death on this one so I already know what is going to happen.

However, reading what is going to happen is nowhere near as cool as actually watching it happen.

That said, since I too won't get to watch it until tomorrow morning, I still will be avoiding this thread like the plague.

Oh and Grim? Don't think that I have forgotten about you. I just haven't had time to prepare a response yet. But I have one..oh I have one!!! [Evil Laugh]
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
The hotel at which I'm staying right now doesn't have SciFi - they have HBO, so my roommate was glad to see the end of "Rome," but I'm dying! BOO!
 
Posted by Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged (Member # 7476) on :
 
Great episode...but we have to wait til 2008 for the next episode [Embarrassed]
 
Posted by Peter (Member # 4373) on :
 
2008?!? aw....... this makes me sad inside. Fantastic episode, but...... a year?!
 
Posted by Dav (Member # 8217) on :
 
Does this mean Bob Dylan is a Cylon?
 
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
 
*confused*
*dreading the wait*
 
Posted by Michiel (Member # 7649) on :
 
Gods, that was terrible. Incredibly weak finale to by far the weakest season so far.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
awesome episode. They showed Canada in the end, and it looks fine, I see alot of cloud cover, and alot of greena nd orangy stuff in their proper places so it doesnt look like nuclear winter.
 
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
 
That was great. Loved the use of "All Along the Watchtower." That could've been incredibly cheesy, but by the gods, they pulled it off.
 
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
 
I'm watching the repeat... I cannot believe I didn't catch them quoting lyrics. "I can't get no relief" did twang a memory but I couldn't place it earlier.
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
*** Spoilers, of course.


This episode wasn't quite what I expected. I did expect Gaeta to testify, and predicted that the pardon would come up during the trial. I'm really not sure I understand how the four came to the conclusion that they were all Cylons, just based on the evidence we saw.

I want to hear the podcast for this one.

2008? They're really milking this one as long as they can, aren't they?

--j_k, who was also waiting for the Kadeshi to pounce on them
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
Wow. I loved it, especially the ending. That was crazy.

I know, I know, I already knew everything. But it was great.

How anyone can think it was bad, I'll never understand. I guess people who don't like the show?
 
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
 
Great episode. I can't wait for next season. So far away... [Frown]
 
Posted by Peter (Member # 4373) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Michiel:
Gods, that was terrible. Incredibly weak finale to by far the weakest season so far.

I don't understand. Why'd you think it was bad? So far, I've seen more positive reaction, including mine, than bad. in fact, i think your response is the only negative I've seen. I'm just trying to see what you think is bad.
 
Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :
 
Lee Adama's "testimony" had me on the edge of my seat... incredible writing.
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
As much as I hate to admit it, I agree with the Adamas. Baltar is a weasel, and I'd shed no tears for him, and he's guilty as sin of so much... but not of what they charged him with.
 
Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :
 
BTW, I'm pretty sure that Starbuck is NOT the fifth cylon... to me, it seems more likely that Roslin is... she shared a vision with two cylons and a half-cylon... hrm.
 
Posted by TrapperKeeper (Member # 7680) on :
 
I agree David. Also, we still dont know about the baltar/six in the heads. Sure dont know, it could be either one though.
 
Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :
 
And you know, I don't even think they're Cylons... Tigh summed up the problem pretty nicely... he's been fighting Cylons BEFORE there were skinjob cylons.

I think they are something else... maybe incarnations of the Lords of Kobol.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
Yeah, I think the whole "we're cylon's thing" is a red herring for next season as well as chief's particular paranoia. There are a billion different explanations with in the show for why they could all be hearing the same thing like that.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
It could be a red herring, but in an interview RDM states very specifically that the four are indeed cylons. However he states that they are "fundamentally different" that the other cylons. He also states that there are two half-human, half-cylon children in the fleet. Hera and Nicky. For those that would like to read the article you can find it here.
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
He didn't just say they were Cylons. He said, "And then a switch goes off". Something told all four of them that they were Cylons. Like the switch when Boomer went from not knowing who she was to trying to kill Adama.
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ReddwarfVII:
He also states that there are two half-human, half-cylon children in the fleet. Hera and Nicky.[/URL]

Actually, he says there are at least two. I'm still betting on Kara as a hybrid.
 
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
*runs into thread with eyes covered*

I missed it last night so now I have to wait to watch it but the urge to open this thread is overwhelming so I'm gonna post in it and not look at anything I PROMISE!

*runs back out*

-pH
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
The ending of this episode was awesome.

All Along the Watchtower as the set up for the seemingly most dramatic battle yet. Oh, and the little "EARTH!" thing they did, which was awesome, I think.

I so, so, so hope that we see Earth soon. The story seems to FINALLY be back on track.

But I have to wait for a fracking year to see them finally back on the road to earth for real this time.
 
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
 
quote:
I'm still betting on Kara as a hybrid.
In light of recent events, it would be great if Kara turned out to be Tigh's kid.

That would be amusing.

Genetically speaking, she could be Cavil's, or Doral's. She's unlikely to be Simon's as she doesn't look mixed race. She's not going to be Anders' or Leoben's because with their relationships, I can't see anyone wanting to ick the audience out like that.

Anyway, now there are six male and five female cylons. So who's betting that the final cylon is a woman to even out the numbers?

[ March 26, 2007, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: Bella Bee ]
 
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
 
I have to say that as a season finale this episode bugged the heck out of me. The content of the episode in general was great, but as a way to end the season with presumably a 9+ month gap before the next episode I was pissed.

The only question they really answered (at least to my satisfaction) was the immediate question of how the trial would turn out, everything else is still up in the air. None of the other lingering questions/mysteries that they've been developing have been answered at all.

There's no real knowledge about what's going on with Rosalyn's (and the others') dreams.

While the four seem convinced that they're cylons (kinda) I see nothing clear about that at all, especially given the general mysticality of the show. Even if writers/producers are stating off-camera that it's true, there is nothing really in the show that says it. If they're being told in their heads that it's true then fine, but it can't be that clear or else Anders wouldn't be questioning it so strongly. And yes they all hear the song, and were drawn to the same place etc, but how can you be sure that there isn't some other explanation (be it technological or spiritual or whatever). While certainly the cylon way is the way they're intending to go with it, the events of the episode still make it far from clear that it is the absolute truth of the situation. also, a commercial during the episode bugged me when it said that I should text the source of the music to some number to win a prize... not only did I have no idea what the correct answer to the question was when it aired during the show, but I really don't know the true answer even now after the show...

And then there is the little appearance at the end... while not unexpected, it's kinda like just throwing some mystical appearance of Abe Lincoln at the end of the episode with no other explanation... I mean, it could be a hallucination, but what's causing it because the usual suspects of extreme stress/emotion/tiredness/drugs are all absent. It could be that she's a resurrected cylon, but then where did she get a viper? (not insurmountable, but still) it could be that she's somehow just really herself but then you really have to start getting into straight-up magic type explanations...

basically this episode frustrates me because there's all these crazy loose ends where we have absolutely no clue where they're going or where they're coming from, and the explanations for some of the things that they've "closed" don't seem very solid.

also, this is a carry over from a previous episode, but the woman who helps Baltar and askes for his blessing earlier... do we have any reason to believe that there is something in their religion that would leave room for Baltar to become a religious figure? I understand the political appeal, and people getting ideas from his book, but I don't understand a religious draw to him...
 
Posted by Peter (Member # 4373) on :
 
It seemed to me as thought Anders wasn't questioning it so much as denying the fact. You've spent your whole life, and especially the past 2+years fighting cylons and risking your life, you won't want to admit it.

To me, the season was wrapped up rather well. I mean, yes, there are still questions that need to be answered, but that's the point of a season finale, to make people want to watch the next season.

As for Kara, I'd place my money on the fact that she's the 5th cylon. Probably something she even realized when she...what....killed herself? died voluntarily? Whatever it was, that's my bet. The viper really isn't a problem at all to explain. They had captured several ships, one example is how Sharon managed to get back to Galactica after retrieving her child.

As for Baltar.....where do I even begin. I don't think he was guilty of the crimes, but I also don't think he was worthy of being called human. I think there's plenty of room for a religion to be built around him. There does not seem to be any real competition for major religion (aside from atheism and agnosticism) , but there must be some contention with how things are going. I could easily see building a religion around Baltar
 
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
 
I loved Lee's speech. His insight into the fleet's situation and the feelings of guilt left over from abandoning New Caprica was pretty sharp.

I don't see how Kara could be a Cylon--we know she has a mother. However, what if Kara's mother was a cylon? That would explain why her mother felt that she had some sort of purpose or destiny. If cylon hybrids can resurrect, it explains how Kara returned from death. Are the final five based out of Earth? When Kara died, did she wake up there?

I got the impression from the meeting scene that the four people didn't just suspect they were cylons. They knew. Some sort of programming kicked in. Did they hear the music before Starbuck died? Is that what triggered it? They said it was like they were remembering snatches of a song from childhood. Perhaps it wasn't childhood, but a former life.

I loved the end-scene. It was very un-Battlestar Galactica-like, but I think it captured the right mood.
 
Posted by Damien.m (Member # 8462) on :
 
Heres the link for a post finale interview with RDM by Kristin@E!Online....

Interview

Some interesting tidbits but most notably STARBUCKS BACK FOR GOOD!!!! [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
quote:
It could be a red herring, but in an interview RDM states very specifically that the four are indeed cylons. However he states that they are "fundamentally different" that the other cylons. He also states that there are two half-human, half-cylon children in the fleet. Hera and Nicky. For those that would like to read the article you can find it here.
*cough* Yeah, Riiiighht. Cause they've never mislead us before in podcasts and off screen interviews. Seriously I think RM gets more joy from playing with us offscreen than he does from playing with us on! I don't just jack from him.

And them being four of the final five makes no sense whatsoever. However, I bet there are a number of other explanations that could make sense. I'm not gonna speculate though, I'm just gonna wait for next season.

quote:
Some interesting tidbits but most notably STARBUCKS BACK FOR GOOD!!!! [Big Grin]
There is one key example of them misleading us. Right after she died all the interviews and such were making out that she was gone for good.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Damien.m:
Heres the link for a post finale interview with RDM by Kristin@E!Online....

Interview

Some interesting tidbits but most notably STARBUCKS BACK FOR GOOD!!!! [Big Grin]

From the interview that is referenced above. And I quote:

"(Interviewer)And just because there will be debate, can you confirm that they are Cylons?
(RDM)Yes, they're Cylons."

Since RDM is not playing coy about this I don't think that there really is any reason to debate are they or aren't they. The bigger debate is who are they. The final five in all of the dream sequences have been treated as higher beings, Lords of Kobol, or whatever.

Here's something else to consider. Both Tyrol and Anders mentioned that the song was hard to remember, like something from childhood. Well, the song has great significance. We all know it's a Bob Dylan song. Assuming they are the final five and the final five are not just cylons, but as RDM stated that they are fundamentally different. Cylons from Earth remembering a song from earth that is imbedded in their memory a key that activates them everytime their civilization comes full circle to this point in their existance. They are activated to guide humanity in the final hours.

[ March 26, 2007, 06:19 PM: Message edited by: ReddwarfVII ]
 
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
 
I don't know how it's possible, but I think I love this show more each year...

Why are the seasons only 20 episodes long?!
 
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
 
note: I'm not suggesting that they aren't Cylons so much as I'm saying that their way of presenting that was less than complete imo. Basically, I can just as easily explain everything in that episode (regarding this issue) as everyone being on edge constantly worrying that anyone around them could be a cylon, and as soon as a few of them seem to all have what seems to be a shared delusion they just assume that this means they're cylons. If we could actually hear the voice in their heads telling them they're cylons, or see a 6 appear before them (a la Baltar's, even though I know that's not standard cylon hallucination stock) something more concrete is all I'm asking for.

Also, Alcon's comments about Kara being gone for good and then back for good definately make me leery of believing any of this off-camera stuff...
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Another fascinating quote from the interview:

(Interviewer) Another reader, David Fouse, asks: "Is Hera the first human-Cylon hybrid, or were there maybe other ones before her?
(RDM) Uh...I don't think I'll answer that one.

Very interesting I would say.
 
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
...meh. I enjoyed it, but I didn't love it. However, if the next five or six episodes are anywhere near as good as the first five or six in Season Three, all will be forgiven.
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Alcon:
quote:
Some interesting tidbits but most notably STARBUCKS BACK FOR GOOD!!!! [Big Grin]
There is one key example of them misleading us. Right after she died all the interviews and such were making out that she was gone for good.
Are you sure about that? Or did they say she was gone from the credits for the remainder of the season? Which was true.
 
Posted by Marlozhan (Member # 2422) on :
 
I think the only things they said for sure were that Starbuck really did die (though I'm not 100% positive on that) and that she was no longer in the credits this season. I don't think they ever said she would never come back at all, though they certainly tried to imply that.

They must have kept the actors in the dark, given the anger displayed by Adama and other cast members when they found out she died. They probably waited until the last possible moment to inform everyone for shooting the last episode.
 
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
 
I don't know that anyone has claimed that we were lied to about starbuck so much as I think they can be careful and misleading with their wording.

i.e. "yep, she's really dead" doesn't mean what we think it means if season 4 shows us that Cylons have developed a way to capture and reincarnate human souls as well as cylon conciousness (or whatever plot device you want to invent).

Since most of what has been reported (at least on this thread) is second-hand interpretations of their statements, I'm definately leery, but even if I was reading them directly then I still see there being room for misinterpretation or misleading.
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
Slam! I knew it!

quote:
Does Kara Thrace's special destiny have anything to do with the identity of her father?
Of her father? No.

The emphasis is copied directly from the original. I called Kara's mom as a Cylon. She's going to be the fifth missing model.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
Slam! I knew it!

quote:
Does Kara Thrace's special destiny have anything to do with the identity of her father?
Of her father? No.

The emphasis is copied directly from the original. I called Kara's mom as a Cylon. She's going to be the fifth missing model.
Why does her mom have to be a cylon? The quote about the other four being fundamentally different in addition to the other comment about Hera being the first human-cylon in the fleet or were there others before make me think that we are dealing with grown up children of another race of cylon....possibly. I am making that assumption based on the fact that Tigh fought in the first cylon wars. Tigh's age and his long time relationship with Adama to me rule out the possibility that he is a 12 Colonies born Cylon.

Then why do the final five have to be pure cylon? Could we be seeing the direct descendants of the first cylons that rebelled from their race for the love of their humans? Could we be dealing with a the only four people left that are direct descendants of those Gods of Kobol. A DaVinci Code or Heir of Slytherin type of situation.

Maybe the Caprican Cylons found Kobol, found a knowledge cache left by the previous group that taught them how to evolve into organic based models and therefore learned of the bloodlines of the remaining five. They were only able to create 7 models because those were the only models they had DNA samples for. The original 7 Kobol cylons decided the door to immortality was through the process of cloning and downloading. Or better yet, the reason there is only 7 models of human cylons that evolved from the caprica models is that these cylons found this tech on Kobol and seven human models ready to receive a download. They interfaced with the tech, learned how to download, and copied the process of making more human cylons. That's would be how the Caprica Cylons could make such a quantum leap in biomechanics in such a relatively short amount of time. They cheated. But their understanding of the tech was not so complete that they could design completely new human models, but enough that they could integrate the biomechanical systems into their overall society. Hence the fact the hybrids and all of the other ships, etc have a core biomechanical systems, but do not rise to same complete level of intelligence like the human models.

Diving back into what happened on Kobol, there were only 7 models available for download when the Caprica cylons arrive because the other five had fled Kobol with their families as a result of the wars.

Hmmm, but that doesn't work either because by now the descendents of those final five would be so many that practically everyone are cylons. I think I just quit here.
 
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
 
I'm starting to think we have a time-wormhole in here someplace. Tigh's a skinjob Cylon, and they came back in time from some future era and joined up with the metalhead Centurions.

"This has all happened before and it will happen again"... remember?

Of course, what kind of paradox would take place by having the nextgen Cylons appear before they were originally created?
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Freaking awesome finale!
Long live Starbuck!

RM had talked about using a Bobby D or Jim Hendrix song way back in a first season podcast and I'm glad they finally got to it. They have, throughout the series, used alot of eerie Earth-sounding music...anywhere from Celtic to the Deer Hunter. I love the blend of the mystical and the high science, because in the end they are nearly the same thing.
 
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
 
quote:
I love the blend of the mystical and the high science, because in the end they are nearly the same thing.
*SPLUTTER COUGH* *glares*

I take offense to that! They are not the same thing even remotely! Though they may appear to be if you haven't taken the time to learn the background. Science is based solidly in reality and mysticism, by name and nature, is not.

Though... now that you point it out, you finally put your finger on something that's been bugging the ever lovin' crap out of me for the last season and a half. BSG has been slipping from pretty hard sf towards sf-fantasy. I don't think I like that... I love outright fantasy. I can deal with shows that start out a mix. But I also liked having a show that was hard sf, particularly one that did so well with actual space physics.

Thanks for helping figure out why I've been going sorta "meh" to BSG of late, Telp [Smile] Still enjoy the show and will definitely finish it, but this also explains why I've had no wish whatsoever to speculate. If it was hard sf, the realm of things it could be is limited and then there's a point to speculating. Which is why it was fun to do earlier. But now that it's clearly waxing toward fantasy, well now they can pull just about anything out of a hat. And there's no point in doing anything but waiting to see what they come up with.
 
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
 
I think Telp might have been indirectly referring to the sci-fi convention put forward by those such as Arthur C. Clarke, that

“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.”
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Bella Bee:
I think Telp might have been indirectly referring to the sci-fi convention put forward by those such as Arthur C. Clarke, that

“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.”

Or the converse: "Any sufficiently well formulated magic is indistinguishable from technology."
 
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
I do prefer to keep my hard sci fi and fantasy seperate. I think BSG would have been a better show (but an ALL TOGETHER DIFFERENT show) without the mysticism.

Never the less, I'm liking it so I'll keep watching. Maybe one day someone will make a serious show with a rag tag fleet that focuses on the characters without any Brain-6s or prophecy or anything of the like... But in the mean time I'll take what I got.
 
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
 
reddwarf, much as it's possible that an explanation like that would be used it smacks too much of the later Matrix movies to me. I'm not saying that it's the exact same idea, but it would be the same kind of cop-out in playing out a reasonable plot.

When the mysteries of the show are continuously explained by more and more "background information" that we have no reason to believe exists it's just cheesy. From everything I've seen in the show we have every reason to believe that Cylons were in fact created by the colonials recently enough in history that they can probably track it down and say "oh yeah, X X, the famous scientist, made the first cylon." So whenever explanations start going back to "oh well cylons were originially more advanced and were developed back on Earth or Kobol, the planets who have long been turned to mythology rather than history" it seems like a big cop out (to me at least).

So basically I really hope you're wrong on those postulations.
 
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
I agree, Alcon.
 
Posted by Peter (Member # 4373) on :
 
I think the mysticism is an incredibly important part of BSG. So much of their culture is based on the Religion (does it even have a name?? cause i can't think of it right now) and that's whats makes it seem realistic. Things may seem mystical, but that's part of life.
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TheGrimace:
So basically I really hope you're wrong on those postulations.

Grim, while I like to speculate (mainly because it is one of my only sources of brain candy at the moment) and advance my crazy theories, I completely agree with you.

In all of my theorizing, I have mentioned that so far RDM and co have proven themselves much more inventive and intelligent than even the wildest of our speculations. I did not see the final four coming. I never would have thought that those characters would be cylons. I don't know what their story is, but I know that the answer to that question will probably be better than what I was thinking.

However, until then....let the speculation continue.
 
Posted by Steve_G (Member # 10101) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Peter:
I think the mysticism is an incredibly important part of BSG. So much of their culture is based on the Religion (does it even have a name?? cause i can't think of it right now) and that's whats makes it seem realistic. Things may seem mystical, but that's part of life.

I agree. Also there seems to be only one religion for the colonials. Within that religion are believers and nonbelievers. If there is only one religion, why would it need a name. It just is. I love the fact that Ron Moore is using religion in the show. Its edgy and never been done to this extent before without getting preachy. The original BSG had a lot of mormonism mixed into it, which felt out of place for sci-fi, even though as a mormon I could understand why Glen Larson chose to use it.

Technically there are 2 religions in the show if you count the cylon religion. It will be interesting to see how the 2 intertwine.
 
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
So I just started watching BSG like four or five days ago. I just a few minutes ago finished watching the Season 3 finale and WOW. I'm blown away.

Gotta say I loved Lee's speech at the trial. I was mentally on the edge of my seat listening to that. Great writing, great acting.
 
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
 
Yeah. I've read some criticism of the trial from folks who know the legal system better than I do, but this layman thought it was excellent, propelled by some of the best acting the series has seen to date. Jamie Bamber, Mark Shepard, Mary McDonnell, and Michael Hogan all deserve Emmys for their work in these last two episodes.
 
Posted by solo (Member # 3148) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Tarrsk:
Yeah. I've read some criticism of the trial from folks who know the legal system better than I do...

I always think it's funny when people criticize things like this. The other example I've heard is relating to the various ranks and how they don't really match up properly with real naval ranks. It's fiction and it's science fiction at that. I can see people criticizing a show like Law & Order if it got things wrong with a trial or if NCIS screwed up the ranks of it's characters but who are we to say that everything should be just the same for the BSG universe?
 
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
 
perfect example of this was on a snippet of Enterprise that I came across the other day. The alien doctor made some comment about Hippocrates not being of his race...

While certainly there are some criticisms that could be valid based on pure logic, the intricacies of either system are almost certain to be different from our own in at least some ways (i.e. "sir" vs "ma'am" for female officers etc...)
 
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by David Bowles:
BTW, I'm pretty sure that Starbuck is NOT the fifth cylon... to me, it seems more likely that Roslin is... she shared a vision with two cylons and a half-cylon... hrm.

I assumed that was attributable to her prophet/drugged-up status. There was no sign that she was hearing the song or anything like that, either.

Oh, and I had issues with the Bob Dylan song. It seemed like a weird and cheesy thing to throw in.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I wonder if "Adama is a Cylon" still. Or ever, for that matter.
 
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by solo:
quote:
Originally posted by Tarrsk:
Yeah. I've read some criticism of the trial from folks who know the legal system better than I do...

I always think it's funny when people criticize things like this. The other example I've heard is relating to the various ranks and how they don't really match up properly with real naval ranks. It's fiction and it's science fiction at that. I can see people criticizing a show like Law & Order if it got things wrong with a trial or if NCIS screwed up the ranks of it's characters but who are we to say that everything should be just the same for the BSG universe?
I agree with you, but to be fair, I'm familiar with that instinctive wince when a TV show or movie gets something wrong that you're familiar with. I get it all the time with fictionalized depictions of biology (or science in general). On BSG, for example, Roslin's being cured of cancer by Hera's stem cells just rankled- especially Balter's technobabbly explanation of his theory. Even though I knew it was Crazy Scifi Speak, the simple fact that it demonstrated a basic lack of knowledge about the subject on Baltar's part (and him a supposed expert!) felt sorta like nails on a chalkboard. Not something that can be helped, obviously- it'd be ridiculous to expect television writers to have the same level of knowledge as a college graduate in the field. But irksome on a primal level, nonetheless. So I understand where my lawyer friends are coming from. [Smile]

[ March 30, 2007, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: Tarrsk ]
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
Well, Baltar isn't exactly a medical doctor.

He could very well have been just BSing everyone, as he tends to do.

I loved how, in the first season, Baltar kept trying to use technobabble on Adama who finally told him to shove it and quit lying. Just as an example of his tendency to do that.

Also, to someone earlier: All Along the Watchtower, cheesy? Bah! While a slightly more montagy "vipers heading towards overwhelming Cylon force while being shown with dramatic camera angles" would have also been cool, I thought it was awesome, and gave a totally different feel than normal, which helped with the situation.
 
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
 
He isn't a medical doctor at all, and if his theory hadn't, y'know, worked, it wouldn't have bothered me. [Smile] Of course, that leads to another pet peeve of mine- that "scientists" in scifi shows are inevitably super-geniuses in every field under the sun. Computer programmers who can also perform surgery and feats of genetic engineering, doctors with in-depth knowledge of quantum physics, forensic chemists who are also the Best Engineers Ever, et cetera. I hate to admit it, but we scientists aren't that smart! [Wink]
 
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
That's always bugged me, too. "Hey, Doctor, you're a genius who designed a defense mainframe, right? Wanna take a crack at molecular biology and oncology?
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
Well, Baltar's also a media darling. (Or was.)

That's got to count for something, right?
 
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
 
There's a series of great post-season 3 interviews over at Entertainment Weekly with Edward James Olmos, Mary McDonnell, and Ron Moore. They go into some of the rationales for the events of the finale (and clear up something I was worried about regarding Tyrol's character- that he might lose his essential "common man" nature).

My favorite quote, from the one and only EJO, regarding his personal scenario for the ending of the series:

quote:
I wanted to come into [the present day], find Earth, cruise on top of it, see it for what it is, and as we're coming down to it, we're blown up, we're nuked. And then [someone says to] the President of the United States, which is [George W.] Bush, ''They've been taken care of. Thank God you saved the world again.'' And you turn, and you see who told him that, and it's one of the Cylons.

 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Carrie:
I wonder if "Adama is a Cylon" still. Or ever, for that matter.

When was Adama ever thought to be a Cylon?
 
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
 
In this episode, Flesh and Bone. It does kinda make you wonder if the "Adama is a Cylon" thing means anything considering this episode is also probably the first time the Kara Thrace destiny stuff started ... and look where we are now.

Still, more than likely it was just meant as a short-term hook into the next episode.
 
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
 
A thought just occurred to me. It seemed rather odd that Dee chose to leave Lee, given what she's said in previous episodes. Then I realized that perhaps the writers are trying to open up the possibility of Lee and Kara getting together. Depending on whether Dee really leaves him for good, Lee is now available. Kara refused to divorce Sam, but if her vows were 'til death, and if she really died, then technically she may no longer be married.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
quote:
It seemed rather odd that Dee chose to leave Lee, given what she's said in previous episodes.
I thought it made a lot of sense. She loved him largely because he was an Adama. His choices put him against the Adama image. It doesn't suprise me at all that Dee would choose Bill over Lee.
 
Posted by Damien.m (Member # 8462) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Carrie:
I wonder if "Adama is a Cylon" still. Or ever, for that matter.

Im just wondering which Adama. [Wink]
 
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Amanecer:
quote:
It seemed rather odd that Dee chose to leave Lee, given what she's said in previous episodes.
I thought it made a lot of sense. She loved him largely because he was an Adama. His choices put him against the Adama image. It doesn't suprise me at all that Dee would choose Bill over Lee.
But which Adama image? The Old Man has his own image, but Lee's was always different, just as Bill's was different from his father's image of the justice defending lawyer of scumbags. I think Lee showed more integrity than the Admiral during the trial, and frankly, had the Admiral shut his mouth before mouthing off to his son, Lee probably would never have pressed Laura so hard.

That had to be excruciating. Lee was always her defender, even when Bill wasn't, and this time it seemed like the other way around. I hated seeing him do it, I really like Laura's character, despite her ruthless tendencies. I know he did it in reaction to Bill calling him a coward, so there's plenty of blame to go around, but watching her plead with him, and knowing he was just doing it to get back at his father, ugh! Drove me NUTS! I hope they can all reconcile though. I hate shows that spend 3 seasons repairing a father son relationship only to destroy it in a single moment. I think Lee's speech at the end might have gone a long way towards healing the rift, that and him jumping into a Viper at the end.

But anyway, like I was saying at the beginning, the Adamas have more than one image. Lee was following his own path, a little bit of his father, a little bit of his grandfather, and a little bit of his own mixed in. Frankly it struck me as rather out of character for her to abandon him without so much as hearing him out. Maybe it was residual from what he did to her with Kara, but leaving like that? Because he was associate counsel for Baltar? Odd reasoning considering how much she claims to love him.
 
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
 
Considering that Laura and Bill reconciled after he overthrew her civilian government in a military coup and tossed her in the brig, I have little doubt that Laura and her "Captain Apollo" could mend fences as well. Whether they will or not is, of course, up to the writers, but I personally hope they do. They had a wonderful, complex friendship in the first season, which dropped to the background in the second and was almost entirely ignored in the third. A reconciliation would be a good way to bring that relationship back to the foreground (hopefully while simultaneously dropping the Quadrangle soap opera into a black hole).
 
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
I don't know if this was mentioned on here anywhere, but as of March 26th, Sci-Fi will NOT be picking up Caprica as a tv show.

They're still apparently open to the idea of doing it like a mini-series, a la BSG, and seeing what the results from that are, before pursuing it, but it will not be a tv show anytime soon. It's still considered in development, and the creators are hopeful for a mini-series or direct to DVD movie.

The creators are looking at Season 4 as a possible last season, but looks highly unlikely to go past 5.
 
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
quote:
But anyway, like I was saying at the beginning, the Adamas have more than one image. Lee was following his own path, a little bit of his father, a little bit of his grandfather, and a little bit of his own mixed in. Frankly it struck me as rather out of character for her to abandon him without so much as hearing him out. Maybe it was residual from what he did to her with Kara, but leaving like that? Because he was associate counsel for Baltar? Odd reasoning considering how much she claims to love him.
While there are different Adama images, I think the Dee was most attracted to the Bill part of Lee. She told him that the reason she married him was because he was so much like his father. When he rejected his father, he rejected the part of himself that she loved the most. I think that things have changed, and they could now reconcile if that's what the writers wanted.
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
Bah. I miss Billy.

But as Jason, the reviewer at Television Without Pity said about it, no one could stand in the way of the Love Which All Of A Sudden, and so Billy had to die.

Great bit, that.

I think Billy was my favorite character on the show, actually. 20 years later he would have been leader of the remnant of the colonies (maybe even in less time than that, considering events.)

Then again, had he not died, he probably would have been the Cylon instead of Tory, who prolly wouldn't have existed.

Actually, I think I would have loved that.
 
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
Oooooo

That would have been interesting.

For some reason today I was thinking Kate Mulgrew would have made a great Cylon, perhaps if Lucy Lawless hadn't of been cast.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by 0Megabyte:
Bah. I miss Billy.


Me too!
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
If you need something to entertain you for the next eight months or so, the demo for Beyond the Red Line is out now.

--j_k
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
Ahh. Well, here's another one, unfinished, but also really cool.

http://battlestarmod.com/

This one is a Homeworld 2 total conversion.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
both are awesome unforutnately i lost my homeworld 2 cds >.<
 
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
 
BtRL is standalone -- FS2 went abandonware and Volition released the engine's source code, so people have been improving upon it for a while now. You don't need the original game to play it.

Unfortunately, it pretty much requires a joystick.

--j_k
 
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
I just got the Mac port of FS2 for this purpose, and have been going through the FS2 tutorial. I'm playing with a keypad at the moment, but yeah, I doubt I'll get much further without a joystick.

I wonder if HW2 total conversions work on the Mac version as well. I'll have to look into that after work.
 
Posted by Steve_G (Member # 10101) on :
 
I downloaded and played the Beyond the RedLine last night. Awesome game. Its short, since its just a preview version, but I am so excited for this to come out in full version. There is nothing like flying your Mark VII through asteroids trying to kill the cylon raiders.

I may have to buy HomeWorld 2 for that other Mod. It looks beautiful. HW2 is available at Amazon for about $11.
 
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
Crap, I forgot to check into the Mac HW2 mod thing last night. Man, when I get sucked into Oblivion, I forget about everything! [Razz]
 
Posted by Damien.m (Member # 8462) on :
 
The podcasts are up. THE PODCASTS ARE UP!!!!!

[Party]
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
Ahh, Oblivion. Twinky, get the Shiverring Isles explansion yet?

It revitalizes the whole game, with a metric ton of new material. Really good.
 
Posted by Ethics Gradient (Member # 878) on :
 
Define jumping the shark? Sure, Battlestar, Season 3, Episode 18. And 19. Oh, and 20. And probably about 14-17 too. This show really blows now. Sad days.

All Along the Watchtower? If they'd use the song without inserting the lyrics in the most corny, boring and inevitably horrific way possible it might have been okay. But no.

Jumped.

Its not that is AWFUL its that it used to be good. But its gone downhill like there's no tomorrow.
 
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
A little out there? Maybe.

Jumped the shark? Not yet.

I'm just as excited for the next season, so they must have done something right.
 
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
 
Judging from the posts in this thread, the last few episodes have had quite a positive response overall. Not that that necessarily means anything, but as someone who was worried that the show had jumped the shark throughout the latter half of the season, I thought they really pulled it back up to BSG's usual high standards for the last two episodes.
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
You know, I'm tired of people (I visit the scifi.com board for BSG, too, so I see it often) speaking of the show jumping the shark.

I think the term itself has jumped the shark, is not longer useful, and is merely used by people who don't like it anymore.

The storyteller's role is to take us and say "let me show you something."

What RDM and the rest are showing us is something surprising and different. If it was just the same, if they were still JUST running from the Cylons without any changes... it would be JUST A TV SHOW! And that would be the worst sin this show could ever make. It's what makes The Woman King the most loathesome episode of anything I've seen in a long time. It's mediocre. It's average. It's JUST television.

The twists are like the twists in a series of novels or a movie - only in a longer term. The tv format is perfect for the Epic story, which is what BSG is, really. One of the few shows to use television format for its strongest, greatest and most significant use.

Also, the All Along the Watchtower was one of the MOST effective things I've seen in a long time. I know, I've seen a lot.

The Woman King sucked, the one after that was kinda eh, everything after that was good in my opinion.

This is the same thing that happened in season 2.5, a lag, a kind of loss of momentum before they moved forward. Now they're finally moving forward.

This show is never static. Take New Caprica. Who does that? No one, except these guys. They craft a mold then they break it irrevocably, as things don't go back to the way they were, they never will. That's the way a good story does. It isn't the way television normally does. It's part of why BSG is, so far, truly a great Epic story.
 
Posted by scholar (Member # 9232) on :
 
I thought that they combined two episodes into one and I didn't like that. I wanted to see more. There were plenty of episodes this season they could have dropped in order to give a bit more time and development for this.
 
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by 0Megabyte:
Ahh, Oblivion. Twinky, get the Shiverring Isles explansion yet?

It revitalizes the whole game, with a metric ton of new material. Really good.

Yup, got it. I made a new character to take to the expansion areas, though, so I haven't actually started the expansion yet.
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
twinky, you want to get there. Now. Drop what you're doing and go to the Shivering Isles.
 
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by 0Megabyte:
Ahh, Oblivion. Twinky, get the Shiverring Isles explansion yet?

It revitalizes the whole game, with a metric ton of new material. Really good.

Damn you to Hades for consuming my spare time with great efficiency! [Razz]
 
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by 0Megabyte:
twinky, you want to get there. Now. Drop what you're doing and go to the Shivering Isles.

They're not going anywhere. [Smile] I don't expect to return to Cyrodiil when I'm done, and I figure the expansion is designed to be playable by a character who has completed the main quest line, so I can afford to putter around in Cyrodiil for a while before setting off.

I never did the Thieves' Guild or Dark Brotherhood quest lines when I originally played the game, and I wanted to, so I'm doing them now. Most enjoyable. [Cool]
 
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
 
Boo@those factions.
I hit stuff either with a big sharp sword (Oblivion) or a big blast of shotgun (Fallout). In the later, I might even talk my way out of situations. But sneaking around when I'm the champion of Cyrodill? Bah. Screw stealth.

Its weird too, I never liked Oblivion or Morrowwind to any degree like KOTOR or Fallout, but I always end up playing through the main quests of each game/expansion.

In any case this is definitely going to hit my other sinks of spare time, such as ... Hatrack.
 
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Carrie:
quote:
Originally posted by 0Megabyte:
Bah. I miss Billy.


Me too!
Thirded.

I just finshed catching up on the seasons so far, and i have to say that I totally see why they won that Peabody. Watching the entire searies over the span of a couple months was like taking a beating. Only, not in a bad way.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Just a quick FYI - the finale podcast is finally up. [Smile]
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
Finally?
 
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
Yep, nothing new other than RM seems to be hammering home that the four really are cylons.

Needless to say the coming months are going to be very long.
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
He also started talking, I noticed, about the connections between our world and the BSG world, at which point RDM's wife said "you're going to faaaar..."

or something along those lines.

I sooooo want to see a Galactica 80 scenario done right.

That is, in this case it would be Galactica 08. [Big Grin]

Modern day earth would be interesting, especially if they manage to escape the Cylons for a couple years at least.
 
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
I bought the soundtracks to Seasons 1 and 2 of BSG.

Both are simply stunning and amazing. I can't stop listening. There's both tense and beautiful music, and music that I just need to crank up on my stereo.

I recommend them to everyone.
 
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
 
I fully agree.
There's a lot of very good music, many tracks which are very enjoyable outside of the show and only a handful of clunkers.

Its the first time I've gotten excited about music in a TV science fiction series since Babylon 5, which also had great music but even a lot of that was not too enjoyable outside of the show.

If you want to be totally complete, there is also a soundtrack for the BSG miniseries, but its not nearly as good as the two season soundtracks.
 
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
 
Ooh... I hadn't realized that the soundtracks were actually out. Must get!

<3 poundy Taiko drums
 
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
Lyrhawn: I LOVE the BSG soundtrack. I think my hubby is getting tired of me listening to it over and over and over....
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I'm ridiculously excited for the S3 soundtrack, which is apparently due out in July or thereabouts. I get so excited to hear the themes recur - like in "Crossroads, Part I" when Tigh confronts Six, it's a rehash of the "Martial Law" theme from early S2. [Big Grin]

And I got to sit next to Bear McCreary's bag at ComicCon last year. [Wink]
 
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
I know it'd never be on there, as it wouldn't really make any sense, but I would LOVE it if they including a track with Lee's speech at Baltar's trial as a bonus track.

quote:
<3 poundy Taiko drums
Is that what those are?

It seems like there's only three basic instruments on most of the more intense tracks, the drums, some sort of flutey thing (like what Tumnus played in LWW), and the bagpipes. But I love every second of it.

Bear McCreary's website says Summer 2007 for the release of Season 3. And this is the very FIRST tv show where I ever went to someone after an episode to say "Geez, did you hear the MUSIC in that episode?!" It's just stunning, and it captures the scenes it's paired with so perfectly, it just latches on to them.

The thing about soundtracks, is that the very best soundtracks almost sound like the music just magically spawned itself just for the scene they are linked to, because they fit so well, and they tie your emotions into the scene so well, that you can't possibly imagine someone could just make up the music for that scene and have it fit so well. And that's exactly what BSG does (Howard Shore does it well for LOTR too, and whoever did Pirates of the Carribbean is up there, Hans Zimmer is pretty good at it too in movies like Gladiator).

And as a last side note, it's fantastic music to jog to.

I wonder what the creator's of the show imagined the music would sound like, and how they felt after they heard McCreary's take on it. To be honest, I love the show, but the soundtrack has to be something like 35%-45% of why I love it so much.

[/soundtrack fanboy]

Edit: Checked a little further. BSG S3 soundtrack will be out in August, to coincide with the DVD release. All Along the Watchtower will be on it. His blog has a great explanation of how he wrote the original music for his version of the song.
 
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
So I sent an email to Bear McCreary asking some questions about the third soundtrack, and he sent back a mass emailing, apparently he usually tries to answer individual emails, but his box was overloaded with mail about "All Along the Watchtower" so he couldn't answer them all individually.

The emails were almost entirely questions about AATWT, when it will come out, what version, how, can he send them MP3s, will iTunes have it, etc. He shot most of them down.

But he confirmed it will be on the soundtrack in August, it will not be on iTunes, it will have all three verses, apparently someone asked him if there will be a karaoke version of it, but that's a no go. There will be a live concert of the BSG music this August in LA (lucky punks), but no plans are in the works for a tour. He hopes however to get some music from BSG into a touring orchestra.

There will be no 2-disc set for the soundtrack, but it will have the "best of the best." But there's some hope of more music with:

quote:
There are plans in the works to release extra material from each season
that did not make the cut on any album so far. Most likely, these tracks
will be released after season 4.

So that's encouraging.
 
Posted by Damien.m (Member # 8462) on :
 
Brace Youselves...
 
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
 
This news actually makes me happy. So many shows go on for longer than the story was designed to do (X-Files), or get cancelled on a cliff-hanger (Angel).
This feels like it'll be about right for this story, and that they will make sure that the story will be complete.

I'm glad that I'll never have to get sick of Battlestar. But then, I'm a quality, not quantity kinda girl.
 
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
I wouldn't say that news makes me happy per se, but it would definitely make me unhappy if the show kept dragging on and took a dive in quality. I can be perfectly content with four seasons if they're good seasons.
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


I want it to last 10 seasons [Frown]
 
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
Dang, from the way Ron Moore was talking what he had planned would take 2 more seasons. I hope the next season isn't too rushed...
 
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
 
Four seasons sounds about right to me. All through the third season, I've been getting the feeling that the showrunners are running out of ideas for new long-term story arcs. A full season should be plenty of time to wrap up the primary arcs, and will hopefully prevent the precipitous drop in quality that occurs whenever they try to write in a new plotline to fill up space (*cough* Black Market *cough* Kat *cough*).
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
I wanted AT LEAST 5 seasons. I wish I was a billionaire so I could fund them to keep it going.
 
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Tarrsk:
Four seasons sounds about right to me. All through the third season, I've been getting the feeling that the showrunners are running out of ideas for new long-term story arcs.

I got that feeling, too. When Pixiest mentioned Ron Moore's plans, I thought, "Wait—he has plans?"
 
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
 
at least they have warning, so even if the initial plans would require 2 more seasons they'll hopefully have a chance to edit things so that it all fits in one.

I'm in the more or less happy court on this one, if only because it's not going to end up with a Farscape or Babylon 5 -type ending with sudden cancellations etc
 
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
Jon Boy: well, 1st and 2nd season they got great ratings. I'm sure he was all like "Wow, this show could go on a while. I better save my plot points." and as a result we get filler episodes and a boring baltar trial that went on forever.

Now he's going to have to rush through the rest of the story and I don't like that. I much prefer what LOST is doing with three more, slightly abbreviated seasons, so they can map out the rest of the story and tell it at a measured pace instead of Faster Faster Slower Slower Faster!

This "ZOMG we're canceled" stuff is what lead Bab5 to rush their fourth season... And then when they WERE renewed they didn't have enough story so... Telegoths. *GAG*
 
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
I guess if I had to pick between 10 seasons where the back half sucked and four or five great seasons, I'd pick four or five great ones.
Personally I think they could have given us another season and a half of getting to earth and then a half season of getting to earth and the aftermath.

But I can accept this, sad as it makes me.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Think of it this way - four seasons means we have to spend less money on the DVDs.
 
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
It also means less awesome soundtrack cds for me to buy. [Frown]
 
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
FEWER awesome soundtrack cds. (Sorry, pet peeve)

And yeah, that's a massive bummer. I love the BSG soundtrack CDs =(
 
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Carrie:
Think of it this way - four seasons means we have to spend less money on the DVDs.

Although if they keep up the "Season x.5" crap, we'll still be spending far more than we should be.
 
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
Yeah. They need to stop that. A season is a season, I should be able to buy the whole thing for a reasonable price. For what they are charging for them, and for how well they sell, I don't have a lot of sympathy for their budget woes.
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
Honestly, the ending of the third season gave the distinct feeling of "we're almost there! Things are coming to a head, and we'll be at Earth very, very soon!"

I figured this would happen. Tene episodes for finding Earth, ten episodes while AT Earth. Stretching the search an entire nother season seems to betray the feeling of "I've been to Earth. I'm gonna lead us there."
 
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
Spoke too soon!

quote:
Battlestar Galactica's search for Earth continues to be an open-ended adventure, executive producer David Eick said.

Contrary to comments by Edward James Olmos (Adm. Adama) at the Saturn Awards on May10, no end has been announced for the award-winning show. Battlestar Galactica is preparing to film its fourth season, one that will include 22 episodes, rather than the previously announced 13.

"For those of you who have been paying attention over the years, this is not the first time Eddie has made an announcement about the possibility of the show's end," chuckled Eick. "I promise you that when [executiuve producer] Ron [Moore] and I make a decision about Galactica's future, we'll let you know."

This was announced on Friday, same day as the story from the Saturn Awards. So it looks like that isn't all she wrote. [Smile]
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
In other (related) news, BSG won the Saturn for Best Syndicated TV show. Yay!
 
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
WOOOT! I want 5 seasons baby 5 seasons.
 
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
 
Hmm. Well, this is a little different than I thought of, but I don't dislike it at all, of course. [Big Grin]

Perhaps we'll get one more season with an intense search for Earth... and then a fifth season AT Earth!

Honestly, my theory is that it's modern times anyway, so... at any reate, they can't go more than a season without finding it at this rate.
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
Thank the gods!
I was convinced that this would be the last season... come on 5 seasons!!
 
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
 
Telp, hate to break to you, but the producers have since confirmed that season 4 will be the last.
 
Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
 
I actually think the show has grown tired. That doesn't mean it isn't good, but there isn't a lot of directions it can take without coming to some major conclusions.

The question is . . . will they find Earth at the end of series?
 
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
What what!
The producers HAVE confirmed it's the last??
Darn...
But at the same time I'm not too upset...I'd rather a show have a planned ending rather than dying slowly of bad writing.

BSG has had nearly no bad writing (debatable I'm sure) in its run so far.

All praise the heir of Babylon 5.
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Tarrsk:
quote:
Originally posted by Carrie:
Think of it this way - four seasons means we have to spend less money on the DVDs.

Although if they keep up the "Season x.5" crap, we'll still be spending far more than we should be.
Blame the X-Men. I think the first time that trick was played was when they put out the X-Men 1.5 DVD.
 
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
For all you fans of the Bear McCreary soundtracks...

Originally it was supposed to be released in August of 2007, as was the DVD, but now the DVD has no release date, that I know of, except for September 3rd in the UK. But on Bear McCreary's website he says he has finished the soundtrack, after painstakingly and lovingly putting it together.

There's album art for it and everything, and he says it will be released in October 2007. At least we have a hard number now! I hope for it to go on prerelease in September.

In other news... Bear McCreary is taking on the music to two other television shows: Eureka, and the forthcoming Sarah Connor Chronicles that will be on FOX. His next direct project is writing the music for the BSG movie Razor.
 
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
October 28th is the official release date for the third season soundtrack.

It is available for pre-order on Amazon.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
And the Atmo Jump wins an Emmy! Go SFX guys!

[The Wave]


Scroll down.
 
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
How do we know it was the atmo jump?
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
Well, it was for the episode "Exodus, Part II," during which there were many awesome special effects (lest we forget the Pegasus)... but it's got to be the atmo jump. It was the single most amazing special effect I'd seen on TV this past season.
 
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
I don't know if I trust an awards show that gives an Emmy to Justin Timberlake for
quote:
Saturday Night Live • Host: Justin Timberlake - Song title: 'Dick In A Box' • NBC • SNL Studios in association with NBC Studios and Broadway Video
Justin Timberlake, Music & Lyrics By
Jorma Taccone, Music & Lyrics By
Katreese Barnes, Music By
Asa Taccone, Music By
Akiva Schaffer, Lyrics By
Andy Samberg, Lyrics By

Scrubs was better than that.
 
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
 
I did snicker when I saw that.

I'm just glad someone on BSG got a statuette. Finally.
 
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
 
Dick in a box ruled. BSG should do a DiaB parody episode.
 
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
BSG Season 3 available for pre-order on Amazon, for cheaper than half season one is selling for. Nice to see a reasonable price for once.

March 18th, 2008 is go time. Looks like it'll coincide with the fourth season.
 
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
 
That's bizarre - the DVDs have been out in the rest of the world since last autumn. Wonder what took them so long in the US?
 


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