Did the teacher really need to, basically, be fired if, if the article is to be believed, she followed school policy?
I would imagine the problem is that when parents signed off on the school slips, they didn't know that there was the possibility of seeing a nude statue. I wonder if the teacher knew.
Personally, I find the reactions of those parents who are upset because their kids saw a penis to be way overblown, but I recognize that not everyone has my taste.
I think the firing of the teacher is symptomatic of the illness of LCD that often afflicts our country's schools--if one group finds something objectionable, then no student can see it or learn about it.
The only answer I see is to make it so that school choice will be available to all so that communities with different values won't have to expose their children to ideas they consider dangerous.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Wow. Just wow.
Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
That is, IMHO, ridiculous. If the teacher had the children have their parents sign a permission slip to go to the museum, how can they complain about what art was showing in the museum? If the parents are upset that this kind of art is on display in public, they should be upset with the museum, not the teacher, to whom they gave permission to take their children to the museum.
I completely understand that some people believe nudity in art is not appropriate for children, and I respect their right not to allow their children to see it. But if the parents give explicit permission for their child to go to a museum, they shouldn't be able to get the teacher fired for taking them. I mean, that's what permission slips are for, right?
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
It reads like one of those "Only in <insert country>" photos. I wonder what would have happened if they saw a woman's breast while she was nursing!
You know, in my little corner of the world cases like this would fall under the "what other stupid things have hapened in the world" heading. Nobody would even think of firing that teacher either in Romania or France. Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I heard the story on the local news a week or two back. I just sort of shook my head and sighed. I remember going to art museums in elementary school (heck, our G/T program went there like twice each year). We saw nude statues, and it wasn't a big idea for anyone involved. The parents in this case way overreacted which in turn seems to have led to a super overreaction by the school district resulting in the teacher being fired. Sort of a sad state of affairs if you ask me.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Oh, my gosh. That seems like a ridiculously overblown response-- especially if the principal encouraged the trip! Isn't this one of the reasons you get permission slips, anyway? If you take kids out into the big, bad world, they are occasionally going to see something objectionable! My class used to go on field trips that took us to places with a lot more objectionable content than one or two nude statues. The Museum of Tolerance comes to mind. If people don't want their kids seeing things, they don't have to sign the slip. That's the way it's always been, why fire the teacher?
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
My high school had a sculpture in it that was semi naked, (well actually a plastic reproduction) she had clothes on, but they were very tight and thin. Elementary school kids came at least once a year for fieldtrips, usually there were little kids more than that.
Posted by MandyM (Member # 8375) on :
This is ridiculous. We just took our 7th graders to the Bob Bullock Texas State History Museum where the kids saw depictions of blood on the floor in front of the Texas Revolution display. Should I be fired for exposing them to unecessary violence? It is pretty sad that the principal isn't backing her.
I was bused to a rougher part of town for elementary school and we used to pass, um, ladies of the night on their way home each morning. I would say they were more risque than nude sculptures but they didn't fire the bus driver.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Boy are you naive. She is approaching retirement eligibility. The museum visit was merely an excuse for the school board to steal her pension and medical benefits. The only real question is whether there was collusion between the principal and the school board to create this "incident".
Posted by Queen Mab (Member # 9218) on :
That is just silly. Once you sign the permission form that is it. If a parent says that their child was exposed to media that was inappropriate for their age, tough luck, they signed the dang permission form. If many parents complain then you talk to the teacher but, you don't fire her. If she had held their eyes open with toothpicks and forced them to look at the sculpture, then there would be a problem. If you don't want your child to see such things don't sign the permission form .
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
"One parent said, "Our main concern right now is what's going to happen to the children..."
Well they learned what the final piece of their outward anatomy is called.
Though I must confess the quote is taken from a parent who disagrees with the teacher being fired. I really cannot see on what basis they COULD fire that teacher. If I were her/him I would sue with all the suing power I could muster.
Posted by Boothby171 (Member # 807) on :
Does Texas still have one of the worst school systems in the country? This would go a long way in helping to explain that...
Posted by Stan the man (Member # 6249) on :
Mean to tell me that Texas knows art? wow, now that's a story .
Really though, the parents need to get a life. Argue that line all you want, but I'm not going to try and word it differently right now.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Stan, that's not nice. I think the Dallas Museum of Art is a wonderful museum. They have some amazing pieces and I especially loved the multicultural art area with Asian, African, South American, and other art. Of course, speaking of nudes, I have a funny story about my husband and one of the tribal statues... (Probably shouldn't tell it here, though.)
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
That's just ridiculous.
Posted by Blaine (Member # 9412) on :
Further proof that stupidity is alive and well in America.
Aren't we overdue for a witch hunt?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Acceptable reactions, IMO, might have included requesting that this particular museum (or display) not be included in future field trips. At least, if a significant percentage of the parents took issue.
But firing the teacher? Talk about an overreaction!
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
Wow. Had these parents never been to an art museum themselves and lived really sheltered lives, somehow not realizing that art museums often have nude sculptures? That's the only rationale I can come up with for signing the permission slip and then getting upset afterwards. That's so unbelieveably ridiculous! Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
I wouldn't be suprised if some groups put pressure on the museum so that the nude sculptures/paintings/whatever are in some kind of adults only area.
Posted by Theaca (Member # 8325) on :
I'm glad she has a lawyer. Does administrative leave till March mean she gets paid till March? I hope so.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
The behavior of the parents disgusts me. Have none of them been to a museum before?
Reminds me of when small minded people defaced priceless works of classical art back in medival times because they showed the naked form.
Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
quote:Originally posted by Storm Saxon: I wouldn't be suprised if some groups put pressure on the museum so that the nude sculptures/paintings/whatever are in some kind of adults only area.
Alright, now I want to see this idea snowball into some really great interactive Adult's Museum, similar to a Children's Museum, but on the other end of the spectrum.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
If you mean a porn museum, they already definitely exist.
If you mean some kind of MOMA, hands-on thing, erm, it sounds interesting.
(Off-topic, I have a kind of fascination with antique porn, so to speak. It's really fascinating to me to see how little porn has changed over the decades in terms of how positions used and whatnot. For a really interesting trip back in history, do a search in google for photos of Storyville.)
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
No, Texas does not now and has never had one of the worst school systems in the country. It's a mixed bag, but some of the best high schools in the country are in Texas.
There is a Museum of Sex in New York City, for anyone looking for a good elementary school field trip.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Have we been to said museum?
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
There's sort of a museum of Sex here (bloomington, IN, IU), in the Kinsey Institute. I should jokingly suggest it as a field trip for elementary teachers.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Considering some of the things that Kinsey's researchers allegedly supported to get their information -- better not, breyer.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
We had a discussion about that a little while back, Scott, where CT debunked that stuff.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
The actual rooms available to the public (which are listed in our town's museum list) seem to be less related to him and his research, and more to very old porn and sexual objects.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I missed that, Storm. Can you point me in the right direction?
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Uh, maybe?
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I remember some skeptiscism about the researchers that reported the things they did; I also remember that one of the most critical reports on Kinsey's research was in Time magazine.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
I think it used to be here.
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
I've been to the Museum of Sex in Amsterdam. It really did seem more like a History of Porn Museum. It was only interesting for about 5 minutes, if that.
Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
You know how, in a Children's Museum, the kids get to interact with the environment and play with bubbles or pretend they're on a television news set or dig for fossels, or whatever it is they do in your local CM? Well, that is the kind of interactive museum I envision. only for adults. I think that would make it interesting for a bit longer than 5 minutes.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Erm, I read about a place in London you might be interested in, vonk, but I'm not going to try to find a link from work.
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Talk about an overreaction!
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