I have read a number of books (novels) about utopias and have really enjoyed them.
Are there any you recommend? I am looking for some suggestions here. I already put "1984" on my list.
I have read: Anthem The Giver Gathering Blue Tuck Everlasting
Thanks in advance for the suggestions!
Posted by Hank (Member # 8916) on :
Brave New World, by Aldous Huxeley is one of my favorite books.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
The little-known masterpiece We, by Zamyatin.
edit: and of course, the original Utopia, by More.
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
Somewhat off from here I always found the "utopian" type society of the Edenists in the Neutronium Alchemist series to be fascinating. Be warned though that it's a "long" sci-fi series, but I think a good read, and might entertain you (even if it isn't as pointed as the rest)
other interesting looks at culture that could relate depending on your angle: Canticle for Leibowitz Alas, Babylon
though I freely admit that these are somewhat a stretch.
(second to Brave New World though, I enjoyed it more than 1984)
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Hi Nicholas--welcome!
Tuck Everlasting is a utopia/dystopia? I hadn't thought of it that way.
Brave New World springs to mind as an obvious choice.
I seem to recall that Beyond this Horizon, by Heinlein, explored the thin line between utopia and dystopia.
(And I suppose I should make the tongue-in-cheek suggestion that you look at the work which coined the phrase: Utopia, by Saint Thomas More.)
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
If you haven't read Fahrenheit 451, put it on your list.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Ah, beaten to a couple of them.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Good call, Porter.
Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
If I remember correctly, one of the sections of Gulliver's Travels is utopian.
Oh! Also recommend Voltaire's Candide, Lowell Bair's translation.
--Mel
Posted by NicholasStewart (Member # 9781) on :
Wow, lots of suggestions in a very short time!
quote:Originally posted by Icarus: Hi Nicholas--welcome!
Thanks! It's good to be here.
quote:Originally posted by Icarus: Tuck Everlasting is a utopia/dystopia? I hadn't thought of it that way.
It's a bit of a stretch, but it sorta fits.
Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :
I also vote Brave new World. 1984 is another obvious choice.
Does anyone think Atlas Shrugged or Animal Farm are considered utopia/dystopia books?
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
Does Starship Troopers qualify?
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
L. Frank Baum's Oz series becomes semi-Utopian by the time Ozma is introduced.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Atlas Shrugged is neither utopian nor dystopian.
It's just boring.
-o-
I think you could call Animal Farm dystopian.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
The short story "I Have No Mouth, And I Must Scream" by Harlan Ellison is about as distopian as can be.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Octavia Butler's Parable of the Sower is nice and dystopian.
Heinlein's Friday
btw, Welcome Nick. I noticed your post count is low and I'm guessing you're new.
Pix
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
The Dispossessed is my fave. (Contrasts an anarchist moon with an Earth-like planet... ambiguously enough that some readers favor the Earth societies over that of the moon.)
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
I would consider OSC's Homecoming saga of Utopian in feel.
I think the Foundation series qualifies as well.
Posted by aiua (Member # 7825) on :
My favorite, I don't know who wrote it, is This Perfect Day.
Posted by Jhai (Member # 5633) on :
Two pieces of dystopian feminist-y science fiction are Margaret Atwood's The Handmaiden's Tale and Suzette Elgin's Native Tongue. Both are worlds where women have lost most of their rights in society. The first is the story of a world where fertility is decreasing, and one nation has become incredibly conservative as a result. In the second, humans have made contact with the alien races. There are five families/clans which train their children from an early age to speak alien languages. They are the only translators on Earth, which gives the families immense power in the world.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
I like Huxley's "Island" and Burgess's "The Wanting Seed."
-pH
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Octavia Butler's Parable of the Sower is nice and dystopian.
Ooooh. Excellent.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
Stirling's Draka series.
Posted by Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged (Member # 7476) on :
We by Yevgeny Zamyatin...Pretty much one the first dystopia novels (1923...one of the books Orwell read before creating 1984.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
The Messenger follows Gathering Blue, in case you were unaware.
Check out Vonnegut if you haven't already. "Welcome to the Monkey House" is a collection of short stories, some of which are dystopian. "Harrison Bergeron" is what got me interested in utopian/dystopian literature in the first place. Also, while I guess some would say this doesn't belong in the genre, I consider Player Piano a dystopian novel. In fact, it may be my favorite. And, of course, don't forget Sir Thomas More's Utopia and, if you want to go back even further, Plato's The Republic. I consider those two books to be the foundation of the entire genre, maybe even the entire concept, so if you want to become a utopia/dystopia connoisseur they are must reads. IMHO.
Posted by MandyM (Member # 8375) on :
The Handmaid's Tale was already mentioned but it is excellent. Be careful though. Chapter six is somewhat graphic.
[ October 05, 2006, 11:50 PM: Message edited by: MandyM ]
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
For modern dystopias, 1984 is the clear winner. It's eerie how prescient Orwell was about trends in modern society.
Past Master by R.A. Lafferty is an interesting book, frustrating and hard to pin down. Lafferty's strength was in his unique short stories, but I like this novel. In it Thomas More (or perhaps only a copy) is brought to the future to rule the golden world of Astrolabe in 2535. Astrolabe is supposedly a utopia but is beset by conspiracies and on the verge of dissolution, and More is brought to the future (by one of the conspiracies, of course) to become President and save the planet.
[ October 06, 2006, 03:58 AM: Message edited by: Morbo ]
Posted by Celaeno (Member # 8562) on :
I don't know--I think Sir Thomas More's Utopia is a brilliant read, but if you're looking for work of the "utopian/dystopia" genre, it might not be exactly what you want.
I wholeheartedly second both Fahrenheit 451 and Brave New World. I've also read The Handmaid's Tale but surprisingly liked the movie better (but that could've been because I saw it first).
If you appreciate short stories, The Lottery by Shirly Jackson is well worth taking a look at.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Just about everything I'd mention is already here, except to the short story "The Lottery" by Shirley Jackson I'd add "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas" by Ursula LeGuin. Short and powerful.
Posted by Yozhik (Member # 89) on :
Mike Resnick's Kirinyaga stories, about a planned utopia that fails because it does not allow for cultural change and development.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Ian Banks' Culture novels are great, and the Culture is prime example of a technotopia in a post-scarcity phase. I've only read Excession and Look to Windward, but I really like both and am looking for his other Culture books eagerly.
Kim Stanley Robinson's Pacific Edge is a well-written ecotopia.
One reviewer I just read wrote that Robinson's Mars series can be viewed as competing utopian visions vying for the future of a terraformed Mars, personified by the First Hundred colonists who champion them: Sax for a technotopia, the stowaway Coyote for an ecotopia, the Russians for a property-less communist utopia, that sell-out stoodge of the Transnational corporations for a free-market utopia, etc.
In short stories, I have always admired Joanna Russ' "Nobody's Home." In a perfect utopia, what becomes of the misfits? The protagonist finds out. The story somehow manages to balance a happy, cheerful tone with a sad and empty one. That last sentence doesn't express what I want to say but it's as close as I can get.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
CT, I was thinking of that story too, since I read it around the same time as "Harrison Bergeron" but I couldn't for the the life of me remember "Omelas". I remembered "The One Who Walk Away From ______" but couldn't remember where. . I definitely 2nd that recommendation.
And yeah, Utopia may not necessarily fit into the genre as we see it today, but it did pretty much establish the genre, regardless of how it has eveolved since then. I just think its important to get a grasp of the history of a genre if you want to fully appreciate it. But then, I am a History major ... . Whatever works.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:"The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas" by Ursula LeGuin. Short and powerful.
This is one of those stories that, once you are familiar with it, you'll see referenced often, much like "The Most Dangerous Game" and "To Serve Man".
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Oh, I agree that Player Piano definitely counts as a dystopian novel.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by NicholasStewart: Anthem
Wha-ah? Anthem is a dystopia. Not a utopia.
Some suggestions:
"Harrison Bergeron" (not a novel, but a story by Kurt Vonnegut. I think it's in Welcome to the Monkey House
Voyage to Yesteryear, by James P. Hogan. Has a utopian society on another planet.
Bug Jack Barron, by Norman Spinrad. Dystopia, but absolutely amazing. One of the best books I've ever read. And reread.
The "Neanderthal Parallax", by Robert J. Sawyer. Utopian society in a parallel universe. The books are Hominids, Humans and Hybrids.
The General's President, by John Dalmas. A non-politician becomes president and institutes changes that could be seen as utopian.
The Fifth Sacred Thing, by Starhawk. It's pagan (Wiccan), but it's a utopian society.
Ecotopia, by Ernest Callenbach. I've never read it, but I remember reading a Mike Royko column about it back when I was in high school. Apparently, California secedes and sets up a utopian society of some sort. Royko thought it was a great idea, particularly if we built a fence around it and posted psychologists at the borders. This was back when Governor Moonbeam (Gerry Brown) was dating Linda Rondstadt.
The Long Walk, by Richard Bachman (that'd be Stephen King). It's included in The Bachman Books, but it was published on its own as well. It takes place in some sort of dystopian dictatorship.
Posted by Silent E (Member # 8840) on :
I had an entire course in college on Utopias/Dystopias, taught by a devoutly communist social science professor. Great guy, but he could have used a haircut.
Our list of books including many of the ones already mentioned, but some others as well. Walden Two by B. F. Skineer was pretty good, though naive (but what Utopia isn't, really?). We had Huxley's Island, but I never read it. We read Herland by Charlotte Perkins Gilman, which is fun.
But the one I keep going back to and rereading is Woman on the Edge of Time, by Marge Piercy. It contains both a dystopia and a utopia, either of which can be reached psychically by the main character, who is a poor hispanic woman who has been unjustly committed to a mental institution. The Utopia isn't very appealing to me, but the way the story is presented is just so fascinating.
Posted by MandyM (Member # 8375) on :
I always wanted to know more about the society present in King's The Long Walk. It was more interesting to me than the actual plot. I heard there was a movie in the works based on the story but it is so violent, I don't see how they could make it.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
I don't think enough information is given about the society in The Long Walk to really classify it as belonging in this "genre."
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Does Lord of the Flies qualify?
Seeing as how the boys are attempting to form a Utopia, but their individual concepts of what that utopia should consist of turns it into a nightmare.
Its one of my favorite books, I don't care what anyone says.
Posted by NicholasStewart (Member # 9781) on :
quote:Originally posted by starLisa:
quote:Originally posted by NicholasStewart: Anthem
Wha-ah? Anthem is a dystopia. Not a utopia.
Dystopia is mentioned in the title of the thread though I forgot it in the actual post.
I make a weekly run to the library every Saturday, so I think I will pick up a copy of Brave New World and 1984 (if it isn't checked out again - maybe I should reserve it).
I remember loving the short story "The Most Dangerous Game" Maybe I can find a copy of that too.
So many suggestions and so little time. If only I didn't have to go to work everyday! Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
I too took a course on Utopias and Distopias. Mine was taught as an English course and was fairly politicaly neutral.
There are three main groupings of these.
There are the Classics--
Francis Bacon's Utopia is the best read, though I highly recommend an annotated version so you can understand the limited scientific and political knowledge of the time. I remember one throw off bit, where they were discussing "Freedom of Religion." The only people who were arrested for discussing religion were some newly converted Christians who got dangerously emphatic with their preaching.
Plato's Republic. It was the first and still resonates with todays politicians.
Swift's Gulliver's Travels. It was basically a catalog of various Utopian ideas and political philosophies, and their down falls. That and unbridled horse love.
Candide could be put in this package, but its more of Utopian Ideas vs Real Life. Machiavelli's "The Prince" is more of a HOw TO guide to creating distopias.
The Second Group would be the Moderns.
1984 of course.
Animal Farm as a chaser. "All animals are created equal. Some are just more equal than others"
I just reread Eugene Zamatin's "We" Very good. And Aldus Huxley's "A Brave New World"
The third type is the Science Fiction.
Science Fiction, by its nature, is either Utopian or Distopian. From the Utopia of any "Star Trek" novel to the Distopia of the new Battlestar Gallatica. Few books deal with the politics itself but I could suggest a few.
Asimov's "Foundation" series.
The story who's name I forget that "Bladerunner" was crafted from.
Most of what OSC has written.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by MandyM: I always wanted to know more about the society present in King's The Long Walk. It was more interesting to me than the actual plot. I heard there was a movie in the works based on the story but it is so violent, I don't see how they could make it.
Do you know that King pulled Rage (one of the 4 books in The Bachman Books) from publication after Columbine? He won't let it be published any more. Reasonable, though it was a truly awesome book.
As to the society in The Long Walk, it seems like a military dictatorship of some kind, no?
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dan_raven: The story who's name I forget that "Bladerunner" was crafted from.
"Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" by Philip K. Dick. Who's written a lot of other awesome stuff.
-pH
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dan_raven: Science Fiction, by its nature, is either Utopian or Distopian.
I don't know. SF doesn't have to take place in the future. It can revolve around people and not even address the society in which they live.
quote:Originally posted by Dan_raven: The story who's name I forget that "Bladerunner" was crafted from.
Novel; not story. Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, by Dick.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Does Lord of the Flies count?
Its about a group of boys trying to create a utopia but their varied perceptions of what that entails creates a nightmare.
I always wondered how the book would have panned out if Ender was in Ralph's shoes.
It would make for interesting reading IMO.
I love the book though, LOVE IT.
Posted by Vadon (Member # 4561) on :
The Alliance Is a pretty fun one.
I third Farenheit 451.
Posted by Dobbie (Member # 3881) on :
quote:Originally posted by NicholasStewart:
I remember loving the short story "The Most Dangerous Game" Maybe I can find a copy of that too.
I recommend Player Piano strongly, not because it is the best (though it is rather good, especially since it comes from my favorite Vonnegut era: pre-Slaughterhouse-5), nor because it is well known (because it certainly isn't, even among Vonnegut's work; it's actually his first published novel), but because it is short, funny, and bleak. It has a definite 50s engineering corporation (think IBM, or GE) vibe, since Vonnegut had just quit his job as a PR flak for GE, but it is an interesting extrapolation of where the nascent consumer society the US was embracing back then might head (and in some ways predicts).
I find it a young author's attempt at re-wriing a favorite of theirs, using their own experience. In this case, I'd say Brave New World is definitely a strong influence, and both have a similar problem with the ending; but by virtue of being dark humor, I think Player Piano's ending works better.
-Bok
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
Dan, Did you mean Francis Bacon's New Atlantis? If so, I'm going to add my recommendation. Bacon was probably the first to sit down to describe a realistic sort of Utopia. His thought helped set the stage for the discussions that led to the modern democractic state.
I'm suprised no one mentioned V for Vendetta yet.
"Repent, Harlequin!" Said the Ticktockman. It's a short story by Harlan Ellison. It's also really good.
---
I would have loved a course in dystopias. I find them endlessly fascinating.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Huh. I definitely think Player Piano belongs in this discussion, but I wouldn't have described it as "funny"--even darkly so. It has been years since I read it, but my perception of it was that it was basically his only "straight" book--as in, not particularly satirical or postmodern.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
I missed this thread the first time around and have nothing to add. Except that I'm reading Handmaid's Tale right now and that because of this post, CT is the most awesomest person here.
quote:Just about everything I'd mention is already here, except to the short story "The Lottery" by Shirley Jackson I'd add "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas" by Ursula LeGuin. Short and powerful.
Two fabulous stories, "Omelas" is one of my all-time faves.
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. I definitely 2nd that recommendation. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
. Whatever works.
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