To start: I'll be the first to admit I'm a big Squaresoft (yes, Squaresoft, not this newfangled SquarEnix crap) fanatic, and I will purchase and play most of their games on principle. I was, however, pretty severely disappointed with the crop of games they've offered recently: Final Fantasy X, X-2 and Dirge of Cerberus were all largely ignorable.
I'd grown so weary of the deteriorating quality of the games that when FFXII preorders were announced, I passed. But we DID preorder it for Juxtapose, and watching him play made me very excited - excited enough to buy the game myself.
I'm only partway through the game (approx. 10 hours in), and it's already proving to be one of the best games in the series.
It's phenomenal how much of a difference there is between this game and the last two single player Final Fantasy games. The combat system is by far the most interactive and "playable" of any FF so far, and it's executed very smoothly. The character development system is interesting, rewarding and customizable to a new extent; you can evolve your characters more or less any way you want.
Essentially, it plays like a MMORPG, but single player - and you can control every character in your party.
Unlike previous games, where you issued every command to every character in your party, XII allows you to let your other party members run on AI for most of the fight; any specific commands you issue them override the AI. What's really neat about this is that the AI is 100% programmable via a "Gambit" system, which lets you generate rules for AI combat performance based on an "if...then" syntax. It also lets you prioritize these actions. For example:
1) If (Ally HP >60%) then (cast Cure on Ally). 2) If (Party Leader has a target) then (attack Party Leader's target). 3) If (Enemy is Visible) then (attack Visible Enemy).
etc.
The monumental change in gameplay truly revitalizes the FF series, but Square really took the time to make this a complete package: the game is by far the most gorgeous game released on the PS2 to date, and truly represents the pinnacle of what the system was capable of. The dialogue is very well written and often witty enough to make me laugh aloud. The voice actors are--you won't believe it--actually good. I'm actively interested in many of the characters, and the plot is very engaging.
The entire experience is very, very satisfactory and I was pleasantly surprised to discover it so.
I'd give it a 9/10. For contrast:
Final Fantasy 4: 9/10 Final Fantasy 6: 9.5/10 Final Fantasy 7: 8.5/10 Final Fantasy 8: 6.5/10 Final Fantasy 9: 9/10 Final Fantasy X: 5/10 Final Fantasy X-2: 3.5/10
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Given the lack of support for progressive scan, I'm not convinced it can possibly be prettier than Shadow of the Colossus, which is gorgeous and supports progressive scan.
I will say that this is the first Final Fantasy game in the main numbered series that has piqued my interest on its own merits, largely due to the story changes, the absence of random battles, and the new combat system. However, I'm still put off by the spacing between save points in dungeons and the continued necessity of level grinding. Since I have a fairly extensive game queue as it is, and I hear it looks relatively bad on HDTVs, I think I'll pass, at least for the time being.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I've got 18 hours logged on this beast and I greatly enjoy it.
My only qualm with it is I am not sure whether to keep all my characters up to speed and more or less around the same lvl, or to just focus on 3 and power through the game with them.
They give you Licensing Points across the board every time you earn them, but only active characters get exp from enemies. I had to set aside about 2 hours yesterday just lvling my 3 weaker guys so that they were more on par with my 3 stronger guys. Not to mention its insane trying to get enough gold to optimize all their gear.
That complaint aside, the battle system is just SOMETHING ELSE I could try to explain what "Quickenings" are (a derivative of limit breaks to some degree) but you HAVE to see it to understand how it works, but its AWESOME. The summon esper spells add such a cool dynamic, I was struggling to grind through some enemies and in desperation summoned my first esper. He proceeded to help me pwn my way through 5 enemies without breaking a sweat, and he only takes 1 mist charge! (that will make sense later).
I agree totally with erosomniac on the voice acting, I was dreading playing FF in English without subtitles because I can't stand English dubbing. Maybe its because they used to many Brits on the voice acting but its AWESOME. Just to show you how much, there is a character named Fran who is a viera. Apparently the Viera naturally have bunny ears, and their feet are pointy so stilleto heals are the only shoes they can wear. Sounds ridiculous, but whoever is voicing Fran gave her a whole new personality thats actually fun to watch. I wouldn't call it 7 of 9 exactly but its in the same group, more of a sense of humor then 7. The point is they took a character with lore I find ridiculous and made her into somebody I actually want in my party and who makes sense in the story line.
If they keep going in the direction FFXII has gone in with FFXIII I will be a VERY happy camper.
Definately the best FF in years, certainly since IX.
My only regret playing it is that I feel like I am running out of game at a horrendous rate, I just wish the game was twice as long as it is looking to be.
edit:
I give it a 9/10
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:the continued necessity of level grinding.
It could be that I'm not all the way into the game (only level ~20 or so), but the very minimal level grinding I've done thusfar has been largely by choice, because I was enjoying killing the mobs in question, or wanted to test out new abilities/strategies/gambits. The boss fights have been very challenging, but not impossibly so.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
quote:Originally posted by erosomniac:
quote:the continued necessity of level grinding.
It could be that I'm not all the way into the game (only level ~20 or so), but the very minimal level grinding I've done thusfar has been largely by choice, because I was enjoying killing the mobs in question, or wanted to test out new abilities/strategies/gambits. The boss fights have been very challenging, but not impossibly so.
All of the reviews and commentary I've been reading -- including from people who've finished the game -- indicate that grinding is still a requirement for completion.
It's basically a show-stopper for me, because that's the reason I played FF6 and FF7 all the way to the final battle and then never finished either one.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:Apparently the Viera naturally have bunny ears, and their feet are pointy so stilleto heals are the only shoes they can wear.
*rolls eyes* At least they know their market.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
Me and my roommate were just talking about this. We're pretty strapped for cash, but we're seriously talking about buying it. What do ya'll suggest? Is it worth it? Also, just to be sure, it's only one player?
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:Apparently the Viera naturally have bunny ears, and their feet are pointy so stilleto heals are the only shoes they can wear.
*rolls eyes* At least they know their market.
In their defense, the Viera first make an appearance in FFTactics Advance, and if you can get anything out of gameboy-sized characters...well, you deserve a prize.
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
You had to grind for FF6? I think I did grind some levels but it ended up being pretty unneccessary as I breezed through the endgame. Mostly I fought the dragons in that forest near the Veldt, IIRC they dropped (or you could steal?) something cool, and they gave a lot of the points for your Espers. But those fights were tough so it was a lot of fun.
I haven't played a Final Fantasy game since FF8, the changes on this sound nice so I'll give it a try, especially if it's on sale. Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Oh come now, the game was called FFTA for a reason.
(I quite enjoyed that game, actually, though the story was dull.)
----
Added: Tick, yes. My party was unable to win at the end of the game because it was too weak. The same was true in FF7. [Added 2: It didn't help that I never cared about the story or characters in FF6, and by about halfway through the second disc of FF7 I was bored with that story as well.]
I've done small amounts of grinding in two JRPGs: Baten Kaitos, because the combat was engaging enough that I didn't mind, and Digital Devil Saga 2, because the story was spectacular (and the combat was okay). As a general rule, though, if I can get to the end of a game without being strong enough to win, it doesn't get finished.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I do like the game so far, but X and 8 deserve higher than that, they are great games!
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
I liked FF4's story a lot more than 6 but it was still good. Not often you see the world destroyed and remade. I may have been helped by my completist, gotta do all the sidequest mentality, too.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: I do like the game so far, but X and 8 deserve higher than that, they are great games!
<shudders violently>
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by erosomniac:
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: I do like the game so far, but X and 8 deserve higher than that, they are great games!
<shudders violently>
<vomits violently>
Tom: I agree the character design for the Viera is ridiculous, they chose a good voice actor though.
----
If inactive characters could simply get like 30-50% of the exp an active character gets that would help ALOT. They already get the LP!
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
I'm hooked on XII.
The limiting factor for me in the game so far has been gil. I don't worry about it too much, though, because my party's abilities seem to be scaling with the game's difficulty well.
Of the only two gripes I have with the game so far, one is the relatively small playable class. This seems to be a trend in the series. I miss having the variety of characters, especially non-human ones.
My other gripe is the lack of any good treasure. My characters are all level 18 or so, but I'm still picking up single potions and gil in the single digits. I don't think I've found one chest that contained a weapon or piece of armor yet. The most exciting thing I've found so far have been gambits.
-------------
Whatever numbers I would give to VII and X/X-2, I will agree that they're the weaker volumes in the series.
Posted by Fitz (Member # 4803) on :
quote: Final Fantasy 9: 9/10
Really? I didn't think it was bad, but I finished it, and as I sit here I honestly can't remember anything about the story. As opposed to FF4 and FF6, whose stories I know far too well (as in discussing minutiae about every little detail with other FF nerds). I totally agree with you on FF10 and FF8 though.
I'm liking FF12 so far. Count me in as one of the people who're glad they finally got rid of random pop up battles. I haven't played much yet, as I'm busy with school, but I'd like to finish it before the Wii comes out. One minor annoyance: how come they can change the appearance of weapons and shields, but armor upgrades do nothing?
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I want to get this game, but I've spent most of my gaming cash on Justice League Heroes and Marvel Ultimate Alliance. My roommate did pick this up yesterday evening though (had to get the collector's edition as they had all the regular editions on reserve). Once he finishes with it, I'm sure he'll let me borrow it. Of course, I may get it for Christmas before that happens. Still I'm looking forward to it, particularly after I saw it and played it a little after its release in Japan.
Oh and for the record, Final Fantasy 3/6 rocks the socks. Best Final Fantasy in my opinion. I can't wait to get the GBA version (as I had to sell my SNES version years ago).
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Originally posted by pfresh85: I want to get this game, but I've spent most of my gaming cash on Justice League Heroes and Marvel Ultimate Alliance.
How are those? I'd resigned myself to passing them by, then I bought another PS2 and the possibility returns.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Justice League Heroes could be better. It's a bit short and for half the game you are stuck with forced teams (who likes a team of Martian Manhunter and Zatanna?). Stiil, I had fun with it.
Marvel Ultimate Alliance is pretty darn good. They took the formula from the X-Men Legends games and improved it. There are still some crappy characters in the game (I'm looking at you Ms. Marvel), but there's a lot of fun characters too. The whole Fantastic Four is there and really fun to play as. You can put together an Avengers team and most of them are fun to play as. My roommate and I actually put about 22 hours into beating it (although we were also making sure we found all the character-specific comic book mission discs). It's a great game and if you like action-RPGs and comics, then I think it's a must.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Originally posted by pfresh85: Justice League Heroes could be better. It's a bit short and for half the game you are stuck with forced teams (who likes a team of Martian Manhunter and Zatanna?). Stiil, I had fun with it.
Marvel Ultimate Alliance is pretty darn good. They took the formula from the X-Men Legends games and improved it. There are still some crappy characters in the game (I'm looking at you Ms. Marvel), but there's a lot of fun characters too. The whole Fantastic Four is there and really fun to play as. You can put together an Avengers team and most of them are fun to play as. My roommate and I actually put about 22 hours into beating it (although we were also making sure we found all the character-specific comic book mission discs). It's a great game and if you like action-RPGs and comics, then I think it's a must.
Good to know. I was much more seriously considering JLH, because I was much more into DC when I was younger than Marvel, but your recommendation may make me try M:UA first. Thanks Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Yeah, I'm a bigger DC fan than a Marvel fan, which is why I was slightly disappointed in JLH. I mean it's a fun game, but it could have been so much better. Longer + character selection for the whole game would have made a world of difference.
Posted by Marlozhan (Member # 2422) on :
Well, Gamespot gives it a 9.0, along with over 100 player reviews almost all in the 9-10 range. I plan on getting a used PS2 just to play this game, since I am suffering from FF nostalgia and this is the first FF game in a while to have the kind of reviews I look for.
And I'm a sucker for good strategy in combat, and this game sounds like it really lets you take strategy to a whole new level through gambits, once you get passed the big learning curve (which I don't mind).
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
quote:posted by Fitz: One minor annoyance: how come they can change the appearance of weapons and shields, but armor upgrades do nothing?
I can't speak with absolute certainty, but I assume it's because with weapons and shields they can use stock animations since those objects never flex or bend. With all the different motions in the game, I guess animating all the different ways dozens (hundreds?) of pieces of armor could move would take up too much space.
I definitely hear you, though. I'm still waiting for the FF game where different armors appear on the characters.
Aside: I have Fran wielding a katana. It's hot. Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:
Aside: I have Fran wielding a katana. It's hot. [Big Grin]
Crap and here I thought I was being original with that setup. I had here on bows then saw it was a short hope to katanas. I've got Vaan using ninja swords, THAT is pretty awesome. They've got a higher chance to hit more than once, and if you play your cards right the most you can get in one melee hit is 9999 apparently. Well with a ninja swords its 9999 X 5 if it works out right.
49995!
I'm interested to see what you guys are doing. Also I should mention the augmentation spaces on the grid are AWESOME. Highly recommend getting all 3 swiftnesses, and the appropriate battle or magic lore. Getting your character's quickenings as fast as possible can't be overstated, they rock the socks in so many ways. You will be glad you have them especially when you start getting summons. You magic classes just can't do their jobs until they have at least 2 quickenings even 3 sometimes.
I just spent about 24k gil in order to equip all my characters with golden amulets. It doubles the LP they get from mobs and they all have to spec in the upper right portion of the grid all the way to accesories 7 I believe. I am already reaping huge bonuses for having done so.
My characters currently. They are all about lvl 22-25.
Vaan: Ninja Swords. Bauche: One handed swords + shields Fran: Katanas Balthier: Guns JUST about to move him over into throwing bombs Ashe: Heavy in the white magic, with a sprinkling of arcane and black as well have staves/rods. She is a heal bot for all practical purposes. Penelo (cant spell her name: Black/Green/Time magic, also good white penetration. Completely covered the Technik section. Haven't had the gil to buy all the techs or spells I have wanted to.
Word of advice before I go. If the bad guys are not dying inside 2 at the most 3 attack cycles from everyone in your party just take a step back and grind some exp/gil from the previous zone. Fighting is just so much fun for me, I really don't mind beefing up my characters a bit then going back into the new content and bullying the mobs in there.
Encountering a boss and immediately going into a 12 hit quickening combo for the insta kill just never gets old for me. Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
comments/questions: (some spoilers)
1. Anyone else bugged all to heck and back that they keep butchering the pronunciation of "marquis"? I mean if it were japanese voice actors I'd cut them some slack, but british voice actors should know how to pronounce that word (and they keep using it over and over and over again...)
2. While I still like it, much of the plot really seems dangerously close to that of the original star wars trilogy... I mean, I know there's gonna be some crossover in the genre, but... a neutral sky city that actually supports the rebellion but then sells out the main characters to the empire... etc
3. Does it bug anyone else that useful and quest-related items go in the "loot" item category, which talks with NPCs indicate you should just sell and not stockpile (i.e. I've already messed up at least one side quest I believe)
Related question: does anyone know if you really should be hording "loot" in general and only selling it in particular sets in order to unlock bazaar items or are those just a culmunation of everything you've sold so far?
4. Can anyone explain quickenings to me? I'm kinda bugged that an expensive skill which only one person can have (per quickening type) carries no description of what it is or how to use it. The manual makes some vague reference to pressing certain key combinations during the quickening time, but I have no idea what it's talking about. So far I've gotten the one quickening I've purchased to do either 0 or 30 damage at a point in the game where my regular attacks do 240+
Posted by Saephon (Member # 9623) on :
TheGrimace:
1. There's been some discussion on this, and several sources indicate that when the french word (pronounced Mar-kee) was absorbed into the English language, at least in Britain, it became proper to pronounce it Mar-kess or Markiss. Thus, it is apparently an acceptable pronounciation. I know, surprised me too.
2. You answered your own question. There's some crossover, but not a lot. The game's plot stands on its own I think.
3. I myself haven't noticed this, but I think you may be correct about the lack of description. One of the reasons I find this game to be more challenging than most Final Fantasy games is that they didn't just tell me how to do everything, or what item was worth saving. In some ways this can really make you mad, but in other ways, it makes the game much more adventurous.
4. Quickenings: There are 15 quickenings available on the Board, three for each character. Once a spot is taken by one character however, another one cannot get a Quickening from that same spot.
Each time you get a quickening for a char, he or she gets an extra MP gauge that shines. When it is full and shiny (hehe) you can activate the quickening. To make the most out of these special attacks, you can chain them. The steps to do this are below:
Step 1: There will be lines of text at the bottom of the screen. They will either be gray or white; if they are white, you can press the button next to the text in order to chain the quickening with that of another character. Keep in mind, this is only possible if you have other quickenings available! If NO text is white, you must press the R2 button to try and get some white text, BEFORE TIME RUNS OUT!
So in a way, it's like a slot machine. You have limited time to get the text to be white so you can continue the chain. So try to get as many as you can!
Hope my explanation was clear.
-Saephon
Posted by Gecko (Member # 8160) on :
I'm just up to the dragon boss in the jungle, the one with two trents?
About how far is this into the game?
Like 50%?
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Hey, what sort of resources are you guys looking at to plan ahead your license board selections?
I've found a couple, but they are crap-tastic.
I suppose I could just blindly pick and choose different directions, but I am one who likes to plan ahead.
Posted by Fitz (Member # 4803) on :
I'm not having any problems with the license board. At first I let a ton of license points build up, then saved the game and started exploring. After I ran out of points I would reset and check again in a different direction. Armor and weapons, I usually go one or two steps ahead of what I have. I've mostly been putting points into augments. Swifter action times, more effective magic, less mp spent, fighting enhancements and hp bonuses are all there. I've let a couple characters explore the techniks and accessories part of the board, but I find the skills and items there kind of blah.
All in all, I have yet to find myself feeling frustrated at a lack of license points, and the way I'm going, I don't think it will ever be a problem.
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
quote:posted by BlackBlade: I've got Vaan using ninja swords, THAT is pretty awesome.
Somehow, I knew this setup wouldn't be original. I did it anyway. Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
Xavier, Fitz's option is arguably the best, but if you want a written out listing you can check out gamefaqs... the stuff up there right now is rather badly translated from Japanese, but it can point you in the right direction with some hemming and hawing
Saephon, thanks for your reply, I think it answers my questions about the quickenings, though I'm still confused/unimpressed with them so far. If nothing else I wish there was some kind of description of what they are on the liscensing screen... just telling me the name of the ability really doesn't do much for me.
as for the marquis issue: you do have something of a point, and the brittish have been known to purposefully mispronounce french words out of nationalistic spite, but to the best of my knowledge that doesn't apply to the "markwuis" pronunciation that they're using. If it was "markis" or were only said a handful of times I'd be alright with the whole thing, but as is it's just so grating...
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
I wish the Quickenings were better; the amount of damage they do is very disproportionate with the cost and effort required. Right now my record is about 17k damage with a 10 hit combo, when I was about level 32, and that strikes me as a very poor way to spend over 700 MP. Also, enemies are VERY frequently either immune or resistant to quickenings (I've seen mobs take as little as 120 damage from a 6 hit combo), and there doesn't seem to be a pattern to it. As a result, I avoid quickenings like the plague.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Grimace:
1: YES YES YES GAH! I hate hearing the word.
3: Yes, I am not even sure what loot items I should not have sold. I always assumed those special loot items NEEDED to be sold to unlock bazaar items.
4:Saephon did I a good job explaining quickenings but here's my take.
15 quickening boxes, spread throughout the fringes of the board. What section of the board the quickening is at matters not at all. The characters have pre determined quickening ranks, 1-3. Vaan will get his rank 1 quickening, "Red Spiral," regardless of where on the board he gets his first quickening.
Your first quickening gives you a rank 1 attack (there are no healing quickenings). You will also get a myst charge slot over your mp gauge. Rank 1 quickenings take 1 myst charge, rank 2 take 2 myst charges etc.
When you get your rank TWO quickening you not only get 2 myst charges you also get double MP! When you get the third quickening you get TRIPLE the MP! And a third myst charge. Myst charges are required not only for quickenings but also for summons. Your first esper summon will require 1 myst charge.
Now lets assume you have 3 characters, all with their rank 1 quickenings.
You start out the quickening with whoever's quickening you have selected. While the animation is playing out you will notice that on the bottom right of your screen every person in your party with a quickening is listed. (3 is the max). They are assigned a button each, triangle, square, and X. If the other 2 party members also have their myst charges at the ready, their names WILL appear in white. You must mash their assigned button in order to chain or combine quickenings.
You have a total of 4 seconds to combine quickening attacks. That means 4 seconds to select ALL your combos, you don't get 4 seconds per attack, so hit your buttons quickly and efficiently.
Everytime another quickening attack plays out you have a chance for ANY of your party members names to light up. You will either see one of two texts when they illuminate.
1: "The name of one of their quickening attacks"(remember characters can have up to 3) mash the button and it will add that attack to the chain.
2: "Myst Charge" mash the button then and it will charge up a characters myst charges and prep them for an attack. Selecting myst charge does NOT stop the 4 second timer but it DOES guarantee that a quickening attack will light up, so ALWAYS mash the button twice if you see "myst charge" and you will immedietly select the quickening attack AS it becomes ready. Alot of people hit myst charge and then watch the timer continue to fall before they hit the button again for the actual attack. Dont DONT DONT waste any time.
FINALLY
If all 3 names are grey that means you have no quickening attacks ready. If you mash the r2 button it resets the 3 names and grants you a chance for one or even all three of your party's characters to light up. Yes you can mash r2 something like 5-6 times during your 4 second timer and get NOTHING. Too bad for you, but more often a name lights up and you have to stop your reflexes from hitting r2 again (which resets the menu again) and hitting the appropriate button for the next attack (remember triangle, square, or X. Don't even worry about circle. You can even hit all 3 buttons after hitting r2 if its your last chance for a combo and I have a handful of times gotten an extra attack off with .000002 seconds to spare.
LAST of ALL, YES THERE'S MORE!!!
Depending on the number of combos your pull off as well as the ranks of quickenings you employ you will get a FINAL elemental attack that hits everything inside (from my experience) 15 foot radius. So even though all your quickenings target ONE target the final elemental attack will hit that target as well as anything around it. Bear that in mind when you have a big group of enemies because these elemental attacks can be DEVASTATING. I've used quickenings PURELY for that final attack. So far the most number of quickening combos I have achieved is 16 attacks.
There is something like 5-6 elemental attacks that I have seen thus far. Stuff like, Inferno, Torrent, Ark Blast, Whitening, etc. All VERY powerful especially against certain opponents with elemental weaknesses.
As long as one character has at least 1 myst charge ready to start a quickening, even if the other 2 are all out of MP you can still pull of devastating combos if you have quick fingers.
I know it this all sounds complicated but once you do it like 2-3 times it all comes together. Its a great system and it gives FF an arcade feeling where its all about reflexes and quick fingers rather then selecting an attack and waiting for it to play out.
As your characters get more and more quickenings you will see exponential growth as to the potential for damage your quickenings have. 1 character with 1 quickening, meh nice, 3 characters with 3 ranks of quickenings and you can kill bosses before they even have a chance to do anything.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by erosomniac: I wish the Quickenings were better; the amount of damage they do is very disproportionate with the cost and effort required. Right now my record is about 17k damage with a 10 hit combo, when I was about level 32, and that strikes me as a very poor way to spend over 700 MP. Also, enemies are VERY frequently either immune or resistant to quickenings (I've seen mobs take as little as 120 damage from a 6 hit combo), and there doesn't seem to be a pattern to it. As a result, I avoid quickenings like the plague.
Perhaps it was poor luck erso. I've selected some of my quickenings based on what the boss is weak against. Bauche's rank 3 being fire as well as Vaan's rank 3, just as an example. I've hit 36k dmg at least one time I can remember. Much of the time I just know the boss is dead and don't see the number of dmg popup.
I usually leave one of my party of 6 out of quickening cycles, healer usually. That still gives me 3 good chances to get off 10-15 hit combos. I've yet to see a boss survive 3 waves of good combos. 1 at the most 2 does the job for me.
Posted by Flaming Toad on a Stick (Member # 9302) on :
I played Ff I,II, and IV on the GameBoy Advance. It's, if anything, more fun than the original versions. FFIV was by far my favourite.
Is there a PC version of this game available? If so I'm interested.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
What the heck is level grinding?
EDIT:
Nevermind. I found this:
quote:In RPGs one usually gains strength and abilities through repeatedly killing monsters, over and over again.
Level Grinding takes this to its extreme. Forget strategy, forget trying to figure out the right combination of elemental attacks; just walk around a certain area and kill monsters for a week, then pound away at the boss as if you were the Incredible Hulk.
In video game plots, only the hero ever has this advantage. It never occurs to townspeople to walk around their village and bash slimes until they're strong enough to face the pirate who's taken over.
In online RPGs (and regular ones occasionally), this is known as "powerleveling" and somewhat controversial as it can be a tedious, mechanical affair criticized for taking the fun out of a game. (It is considered rude in certain circles to Level Grind and then complain a boss is painfully easy.)
It seems a really, really, really boring way to play a game.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:It seems a really, really, really boring way to play a game.
Unless you enjoy the combat dynamic, in which case it's...playing.
Traditionally, RPGs have had trouble making random-battle combat anything but mundane; FFXI keeps it engaging, and thus it does not feel like a chore.
In MMORPGs, it would feel like less of a chore if you didn't need to do so bloody much of it. Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
*Reminded of that episode of south park*
Well, we beat him, what do we do now? Play the game. It made me laugh. It does seem boring, but at least one would get more money.
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
A couple things I've discovered that have been giving me all kinds of trouble:
1. Teleport stones and gyshall(sp?) greens can be bought on the airship when riding between cities for 200 and 100 gil, respectively. Just make sure to take the "leisure craft" option.
2. The Rains in Giza are apparantly based on your in game clock. There's an NPC wandering around Southgate in Rabanastre that can predict when the weather will change. I read 2hrs dry, 1 hr rains, but I haven't verified that, and am not likely to. A lot of the game forums I checked said that simply running back and forth between zones would change the weather. This is true of most zones, but NOT the Giza plains.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Juxtapose: A couple things I've discovered that have been giving me all kinds of trouble:
1. Teleport stones and gyshall(sp?) greens can be bought on the airship when riding between cities for 200 and 100 gil, respectively. Just make sure to take the "leisure craft" option.
2. The Rains in Giza are apparantly based on your in game clock. There's an NPC wandering around Southgate in Rabanastre that can predict when the weather will change. I read 2hrs dry, 1 hr rains, but I haven't verified that, and am not likely to. A lot of the game forums I checked said that simply running back and forth between zones would change the weather. This is true of most zones, but NOT the Giza plains.
oh man see I knew going back and forth between zones worked in certain places and had no reason to believe Giza was any different. Luckily my patience ran out after like 5 tries and I randomly came back to it and it was raining so I took advantage of it! I saved in the village during the rain so Ill see if its still raining when I get back. If so, maybe its an in game clock, if not Ill know its something else.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:1. Teleport stones and gyshall(sp?) greens can be bought on the airship when riding between cities for 200 and 100 gil, respectively. Just make sure to take the "leisure craft" option.
These can also be purchased from the clan merchant in the Muthruu Bazaar in Rabanastre fairly early in the game; I don't remember exactly when they become available, but I was able to purchase greens after 4 completed hunts, and teleport stones after 8.
Posted by Marlozhan (Member # 2422) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:Originally posted by erosomniac: I wish the Quickenings were better; the amount of damage they do is very disproportionate with the cost and effort required. Right now my record is about 17k damage with a 10 hit combo, when I was about level 32, and that strikes me as a very poor way to spend over 700 MP. Also, enemies are VERY frequently either immune or resistant to quickenings (I've seen mobs take as little as 120 damage from a 6 hit combo), and there doesn't seem to be a pattern to it. As a result, I avoid quickenings like the plague.
Perhaps it was poor luck erso. I've selected some of my quickenings based on what the boss is weak against. Bauche's rank 3 being fire as well as Vaan's rank 3, just as an example. I've hit 36k dmg at least one time I can remember. Much of the time I just know the boss is dead and don't see the number of dmg popup.
I usually leave one of my party of 6 out of quickening cycles, healer usually. That still gives me 3 good chances to get off 10-15 hit combos. I've yet to see a boss survive 3 waves of good combos. 1 at the most 2 does the job for me.
So once you get good at getting these combo quickenings going, does fighting bosses become too easy? I mean, if I can start killing every boss right off the bat with a bunch of quickenings, that seems like not enough challenge...unless doing these quickenings is a challenge in itself, or if they take a while to get going (I don't have the game yet, so I haven't had a chance to try the combat mechanics yet)?
I like to be buff in an RPG, but I like to be challenged so I feel like I earned my buffness.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Marlozhan:
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:Originally posted by erosomniac: I wish the Quickenings were better; the amount of damage they do is very disproportionate with the cost and effort required. Right now my record is about 17k damage with a 10 hit combo, when I was about level 32, and that strikes me as a very poor way to spend over 700 MP. Also, enemies are VERY frequently either immune or resistant to quickenings (I've seen mobs take as little as 120 damage from a 6 hit combo), and there doesn't seem to be a pattern to it. As a result, I avoid quickenings like the plague.
Perhaps it was poor luck erso. I've selected some of my quickenings based on what the boss is weak against. Bauche's rank 3 being fire as well as Vaan's rank 3, just as an example. I've hit 36k dmg at least one time I can remember. Much of the time I just know the boss is dead and don't see the number of dmg popup.
I usually leave one of my party of 6 out of quickening cycles, healer usually. That still gives me 3 good chances to get off 10-15 hit combos. I've yet to see a boss survive 3 waves of good combos. 1 at the most 2 does the job for me.
So once you get good at getting these combo quickenings going, does fighting bosses become too easy? I mean, if I can start killing every boss right off the bat with a bunch of quickenings, that seems like not enough challenge...unless doing these quickenings is a challenge in itself, or if they take a while to get going (I don't have the game yet, so I haven't had a chance to try the combat mechanics yet)?
I like to be buff in an RPG, but I like to be challenged so I feel like I earned my buffness.
Let me put it this way, for the first half of the game your quickenings can make short work of several bosses, even through the middle section of the game they can be indispensable.
This morning I went on my first MonteBlanc hunt and theres a rank 3 turtle called gil snapper that you have to kill. There is actually a pretty decent side quest to being to fight him. It took me 2 hours to down him because I was unprepared, he had protect, shell, and haste on, and he cast disablaga and blizzaga constantly. Bauche was equipped with ice brand which only healed the damn thing, and after using up all my quickenings save my healers mp he was still at about half hp. Got him down to like 1-2k hp and he wiped my final 3 characters, the 2nd fight I cast slow on him constantly but it was still almost a repeat of the fist attempt. But as my last grp of 3 were about to be obliterated, I have an augment that gives them mp as they do damage and one of my characters got 1 myst charge back. I cast quickening just before his final blizzaga and got off a 12 hit combo that killed him. But at least half the dmg was done with my melee guys whaling on him in spite of his protect and my healer healing through the dmg. I used hi potions when that was not an option. I had to use phoenix down a few times as well.
Honestly that fight would have gone much better if I had gone into it with some better tactics laid out and had the right abilities. I was very disapointed with how few options I had with the vast number of spells in the game. I'm going out to get some more lp and gil and I am going to fine tune some of my casters because they are not pulling their weight in situations like this.
Verdict: Quickenings are essential, cool, and they CAN save your bacon later in the game, but don't rely on them.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
So I stumbled across a $50 Wal-Mart giftcard while cleaning off my desk. Now I'm debating what I use it for. Do I do something logical and use it defray the cost of groceries for the next 2 weeks or so (more or less until the end of the semester) so that I'll have more money later? Or do I instead buy a new game with it? If I do buy a new game, then what should it be? From your guys' reports, Final Fantasy XII sounds quite good. Final Fantasy III is coming out on the DS tomorrow as well. Plus there's always some of the PS2 games I've overlooked, like Okami. So you people with FFXII, what do you think? Is it worth the investment?
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by pfresh85: So I stumbled across a $50 Wal-Mart giftcard while cleaning off my desk. Now I'm debating what I use it for. Do I do something logical and use it defray the cost of groceries for the next 2 weeks or so (more or less until the end of the semester) so that I'll have more money later? Or do I instead buy a new game with it? If I do buy a new game, then what should it be? From your guys' reports, Final Fantasy XII sounds quite good. Final Fantasy III is coming out on the DS tomorrow as well. Plus there's always some of the PS2 games I've overlooked, like Okami. So you people with FFXII, what do you think? Is it worth the investment?
Go get it, I've got 40+ hours invested in it, and still have quite a bit to do. Your groceries will provide you with 2-3 meals for a week? You spend about 30 minutes eating, 30 minutes preparing (if that).
21 hours vs 40+ hours,
would you really want to eat in a world where you're bored?
Honestly speaking if you decide to go for the video game, get FFXII, I really am enjoying it.
If you decide to be sensible and get groceries, (these days I usually opt for the necessities over the wants), get groceries.
Shame on you for shopping at Walmart BTW.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
So I just started playing the other night and I got to Bhujerba. When I went into the Lhusu mines, it only showed Vaan and Lamont as my party members. Now I'm on that airship thing and it only shows Vaan and the other dude. Is it supposed to be like this or did I lose some of my party? Oh, and it says in party screen that I have all these people (Balthier, etc) but when I'm walking around, nada. Any suggestions?
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
Go to the main menu and use the party command to switch people in and out.
Those with portraits shifted to the left will be in your active party, while those to the right will be in your reserves.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
Hahaha! Yeah, duh. Go me. I went through the mines with just Vaan and Lamont. Of course, this means that Vaan is level 14 while Balt and Fran are only 8. Dang, I am shamed.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dr Strangelove: Hahaha! Yeah, duh. Go me. I went through the mines with just Vaan and Lamont. Of course, this means that Vaan is level 14 while Balt and Fran are only 8. Dang, I am shamed.
Lol Dr. S
Smooth move ex lax!
Posted by Ecthalion (Member # 8825) on :
i have a friend who never bothered switching out his men at after the first few hours of the game, Baltheir, penelo and asche are all lv 11 or lower. It seems like that would be dificult, so im gonna try it when im done with beating it using all 6.
I do have a question about side quests though. Since i dont use guides i kinda just discover things on my own i dont automatically just go do things. Aside from the monster hunts ive had only one random quest. Its pretty odd to have a FF game with no quests, so i figured id pose the question. Am i missing side quests, or is it based all around the hunting game?
Posted by Squish (Member # 9191) on :
quote: I do have a question about side quests though. Since i dont use guides i kinda just discover things on my own i dont automatically just go do things. Aside from the monster hunts ive had only one random quest. Its pretty odd to have a FF game with no quests, so i figured id pose the question. Am i missing side quests, or is it based all around the hunting game
There are A LOT of side quests, and they're very, very important. Pretty much anything that sounds like it could be a side quest is.
Don't sweat it, though: a lot of them require you to do a lot of traveling between areas and can't really be completed until later in the game.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
You need to talk to just about everybody you encounter if you want to stand a chance at stumbling across a side quest. Pretty much every sidequest is worth it, as some involve you getting Espers you cannot get inside the main storyline!
But what makes them obnoxious is you cannot start them until you have progressed to certain points in the main story line. The dawn shard and the treaty blade are required for the biggest bulk of side quests. Once you have both feel free to run around and find those quests. I am glad I got the guide, it has been indispensable.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
Do you have to do the hunts in any particular order or anything? I can't seem to get to the White Mousse or find the Gil Tortoise or whatever. Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
Some of the side quests require you to complete certain hunts to begin them. One hunt that I can think of off the top of my head requires you to have completed an earlier hunt and do a side quest. Other than that, they can be done in any order, as far as I know.
A lot of the side quests take place in dungeons you go through early in the game. Exploring those places later can be helpful, as well as talking to people in towns nearby.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
Alright, last question (hopefully) - Do the monsters level up with you? I'm getting my butt kicked on the Ozmon plains or wherever (and in the Zeritan(?) Caverns), so would it be beneficial for me to go level up, get some better weapons, etc etc? Or is it just the fact that I'm a crappy player thats leading to my ultimate demise? (right now everyones around level 19 or 20)
Posted by Flaming Toad on a Stick (Member # 9302) on :
And another question. Do any of the sidequests become unavailable after you reach a certain point in the game? That's one of many things that pissed me off about Sword of Mana.
Also, is there a P.C. version of the game?
Posted by Fitz (Member # 4803) on :
The monsters don't level up with you, though of course as you progress into deeper levels of the game, the monsters which inhabit those areas are naturally stronger, and yes, a higher level. Monsters of a lower level will always stay at that level. If you're having trouble in an area which you need to pass through, you might think about doing a little bit of grinding (fighting in areas where the monsters are at your level, to gain levels, loot, and points). As for those caverns, at your level you don't need to be going in there. They come into play a bit later.
I don't think any of the sidequests become unavailable. Then again, I haven't really put any of them off to the point where I would have to worry about that. The closest instance to a sidequest becoming unavailable that I can think of is when the plains enter rainy season, which stops you from doing a particular hunt. That's easily remedied by the fact that dry season eventually comes back around.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Originally posted by Flaming Toad on a Stick: And another question. Do any of the sidequests become unavailable after you reach a certain point in the game? That's one of many things that pissed me off about Sword of Mana.
Also, is there a P.C. version of the game?
To the best of my knowledge, nothing becomes unavailable, ever. Even the Zodiac Spear can be obtained if you didn't know the "trick" (read: BS prerequisites) beforehand, it's just way more time consuming.
There is no PC version of the game; there will likely never be one.
Posted by Ecthalion (Member # 8825) on :
eh, guess ill have to break down and get a guide i guess. I tend to talk to most of the random people and am pretty far in the game and still havent found much.
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
just for the record: if you're not opposed to guides www.gamefaqs.com is your friend... though it's a bit odd at the moment since much of the stuff there is translated from the Japanese version, so some of the place/monster/item names can be interesting to work out
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
I am really liking this game. I've put in quite a bit of time so far, since I've been sick this weekend. I've got my characters all up to around level 27. I did some fun level grinding and just got my butt kicked by the White Mousse. Again. I almost had it this time though, if those pesky toad things hadn't wiped me out. I'm gonna progress a little more in the story, see if I can get some better weapons and stuff, then take on some of those hunts that have been wiping me out. I suppose it's indicative that none of the boss fights that have to do with the story line have given me any trouble at all, while quite a few of the hunts have. I suppose I may have bitten off more than I should/could chew . Ah well. The week is young.
Posted by Ecthalion (Member # 8825) on :
the only bosses that have given me trouble so far were Garuda and Cid. I didnt know about the berries for the garuda fight, and killing the rooks with cid was a bit annoying. Although i found it quite interesting that Cid plays a bad guy in this one.
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
Ecthalion, the funny thing when I fought the Garuda was that I had actually done everything to get the berries except go back to the guy to get them and still didn't have too hard a time fighting it. It wasn't necessarily easy, but it wasn't impossible either... makes me curious what the berries actually do.
Posted by Ecthalion (Member # 8825) on :
i was told it slowed it down and made attack/def weaker. The reason i had problems with it is it would go on 5+ hitting streaks constantly.
The berries are supposed to make it sick or something....
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
See I HAD the berries but didn't realize I was fighting the Garuda when I got there, so I just opened up a quickening chain and got like a 12 hit combo and killed it right off.
"Oh I killed it, oh hey I was supposed to use those berries!"
Tried selling them you get like 1 gil for em. Pure profit baby.
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
btw, any of you seen the video of a guy beating stage 2 Gilgamesh at lvl 35? it was crazy
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheGrimace: btw, any of you seen the video of a guy beating stage 2 Gilgamesh at lvl 35? it was crazy
Didn't know that was possible, my guys are around that lvl.
Posted by Ecthalion (Member # 8825) on :
wow... i must be lagging my hunts... im 45 and havnet even done stage 1...
Posted by Nikisknight (Member # 8918) on :
Wow, Gilgamesh at 35? He kicked my lvl 40 butts so hard I didn't try again.
I really like this game, agree with the points adressed above. I'm right before the end, after a very tall dungeon. I've done no leveling per se, other than running back and forth on some hunts. I found a good level of challenge to the game, not that easy, but not needing leveling. And I so wanna be Balthier, he is the height of cool.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
****SPOILERS*****
So I finished the game before my roommate took it home for Christmas break. I only got up to rank VI on the hunts, so hopefully I'll get a chance to finish up all that stuff, but I really enjoyed this game. It's the first console game I've ever finished. Multiple times I've come to the final level of games and just said "Eh, I'm tired of it", but this one was good. I so wish Ashe and Vaan had got together though. Penelo was a little brat.
I actually had a dream about it last night. I was Basch with a Katana and I was fighting a dragon outside of a town. And then back inside the town there were those annoying little fruit-head things. And rats. And I got so annoyed because I couldn't just crush them with my hands, I actually had to get out my sword and swing it every time.
[ December 17, 2006, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: Dr Strangelove ]
Posted by Nikisknight (Member # 8918) on :
quote:Multiple times I've come to the final level of games and just said "Eh, I'm tired of it"
I've been doing this a lot lately, getting to the last level or dungeon, and then not going back to beat it. Including this one, which I'm sure has an ending I'd be interested in. Not sure why, but obviously the motivation of RPG's for me isn't the ending, more of the exploring or character building parts
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
If you're going into the Bahamut, its really not a level, just a string of boss fights. If you're going into the one before that (I can't remember the name), it's horribly long and complicated.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dr Strangelove: So I finished the game before my roommate took it home for Christmas break. I only got up to rank VI on the hunts, so hopefully I'll get a chance to finish up all that stuff, but I really enjoyed this game. It's the first console game I've ever finished. Multiple times I've come to the final level of games and just said "Eh, I'm tired of it", but this one was good. I so wish Ashe and Vaan had got together though. Penelo was a little brat.
I actually had a dream about it last night. I was Basch with a Katana and I was fighting a dragon outside of a town. And then back inside the town there were those annoying little fruit-head things. And rats. And I got so annoyed because I couldn't just crush them with my hands, I actually had to get out my sword and swing it every time.
&$)(#@(*&() &%#@)(*%#@)( SPOILER WARNINGS!!!!
Ah, well, I'm level 99 and have finished pretty much everything I could find, I suppose I should jsut bite the bullet and finish the gamea anyway...
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
Woooops. Yeah, sorry, I'll fix that. I woulda been pissed off if I'd read that before I finished it.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
I could try to explain what "Quickenings" are (a derivative of limit breaks to some degree) but you HAVE to see it to understand how it works, but its AWESOME. The summon esper spells add such a cool dynamic, I was struggling to grind through some enemies and in desperation summoned my first esper. He proceeded to help me pwn my way through 5 enemies without breaking a sweat, and he only takes 1 mist charge! (that will make sense later).![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Evil Laugh]](graemlins/evillaugh.gif)
![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)