Well, the title explains it all pretty much. This girl is a good friend of mine, and I'm starting to have "more-than-friend" feelings for her. I really want to just get it all out in the open, but I'm afraid it will ruin the friendship. I know this is pretty much the story of every high school crush, but I'm still having a hard time with it. People always comment how we would make a good couple and things like that. I never took those comments seriously until recently, when another boy she was in a relationship with broke it off becasue he felt that she and I were "The best friends fromthe movies that realize they love eachother". My concern is that she probably has never taken these comments seriously either.
I know this is all immature, but I just don't know what to do. Risk making things awkward between us, or play it safe and always wonder if there could have been something? Any suggestions?
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
Tell her you love her, you want and desire her and you want to make babies with her.
Posted by Little_Doctor (Member # 6635) on :
I feel so immature when I read this back to myself. It almost embarrases me.
Posted by Little_Doctor (Member # 6635) on :
Is that for real Alt? I mean, I'm a High School Senior, I'm hardly thinking aobut children right now, Haha. I think I get the point thoguh.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Ignore Alt. Say something like "I'm beginning to think everyone who says we'd be great together is right, how about we give it a shot?" Make sure you smile and make eye contact when you say it. Otherwise it will come off as way too flip. You want it to sound a little teasing, but like you mean it.
Worst she can say is no. If she does, back off and give it a little space before dropping right backinto the close friendship, or she'll freak out worrying about your intentions.
Good luck!
Posted by Uprooted (Member # 8353) on :
Not immature at all -- talk to her. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. If she's feeling the same way you are, she is probably waiting for you to say so. Is she the one who told you what her boyfriend said when he broke up w/ her? If so, it may have been an invitation for you to pursue the thought.
Then again, maybe she was just telling her best friend what happened. Hard to say. I wouldn't worry about ruining the friendship. The fact that you're feeling the way you are means that the dynamics of the friendship won't stay the same, anyway. If she's a quality friend, then even if she doesn't feel the same way and your friendship is somehow different, she will still be a friend.
Relationships evolve with time. Go with the flow. Keep us posted, Little_Doctor!
Posted by Mintieman (Member # 4620) on :
Alt is completely right. Just be a tad more subtle.
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
Oh, come on. I was just kidding.
You should listen to ElJay.
Posted by Uprooted (Member # 8353) on :
Oh, and great technique tips from ElJay!
Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
I ended up dating the person that you're describing for about 5 years. We're still friends, had a great relationship, just grew apart after a few years in college... The great times we had never would have happened if one of us hadn't spoken up.
As long as you don't, well, tell her you love her, you want and desire her and you want to make babies with her... ; ) you should be good. Just be honest - tell her that you really enjoy her company and that you're starting to feel a little bit like maybe people are right (about the whole realize that you dig each other a little more than just as friends). If you guys talk and hang out all the time, you can probably do it easily? Just don't get all mushy and serious, maybe, and just talk about it as an option.
What do I know, though...
edit: whoa! a lot happens while you're typing!!
Posted by Little_Doctor (Member # 6635) on :
Oh a few more details I forgot to mention that are stressing me out:
1. Our families are close friends, and we see eachother at BBQ's and other things like that. Our parents always joke that we'll get married one day.
2. I work for her dad. He's a veterinarian and I'm one of his assistants.
I feel like a relationship between us could cause so many awkward situations. It almost convinces me it's not worth it.
Posted by Swampjedi (Member # 7374) on :
I think, by your words, that you feel like she's worth it. Don't talk yourself out of it. Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
If you like her than the awkward situations won't really matter, well not as much hopefully. Just ask her out, the worst she can really do is say no and make fun of you with her friends, could be worst. Best case senario she says yes, you go out and all that happily ever after stuff that HS relationships seem to be.
But the drawback is your a High School senior, if you both go off to college in the fall at seperate schools stats say it won't last long after? But you'll never know till you try.
Good luck if you decide to ask her out! Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
How much physical contact is in your friendship? While hanging out, do you ever put your arm around her, lock elbows, do you hug goodbye? Do you ever flirt playfully? How does she respond when you compliment her looks?
The answers to these might be a good way to gage her interest, or lack thereof.
Though depending on the tone of voice, her mentioning you two as "the best friends from the movies that realize they love each other" could be a very good sign.
Posted by Little_Doctor (Member # 6635) on :
quote: While hanging out, do you ever put your arm around her, lock elbows, do you hug goodbye? Do you ever flirt playfully? How does she respond when you compliment her looks?
Yes, yes, yes, yes, I guess she's happy when I compliment her, at least I hope so. She compliments the way I dress/look as well. She took me shopping this past weekend, so I already know she likes the way I dress, she picked everything out. Hehe
Posted by Dragon (Member # 3670) on :
Good luck Little_Doctor. Letting people know you like them is one of the hardest things to do.
My only advice is to do it sooner rather than later. As you said, you're a senior, and even worse than her saying no would be that you wait but she says yes and then you're left with very little time to actually be together. Or at least, in my experience that isn't very fun, though you might be better at long distance relationships than I was.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Just go for it LD. I told a best friend once that I liked her as more than a friend. We never ended up dating, due to some personality conflicts (we're great best friends, but would NEVER have worked as a couple), but our friendship never really suffered for it.
Just say you have feelings and ask how she feels. If it doesn't work out, and you guys are tight, that won't suffer. Let us know how it goes.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Pursue this. If you don't, you'll always regret it. Probably. Life is too short to live with regrets.
Posted by MyrddinFyre (Member # 2576) on :
quote:Originally posted by Little_Doctor: Yes, yes, yes, yes, I guess she's happy when I compliment her, at least I hope so. She compliments the way I dress/look as well. She took me shopping this past weekend, so I already know she likes the way I dress, she picked everything out. Hehe
That is SO cute.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
I don't know, dude, it doesn't sound like you have anything to worry about.
I'd either go the direct route, like ElJay suggests, or to simply escalate the flirting a few notches, and make a point to do couple like things with her often until the inevitable hand holding and goodnight kissing starts.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Not to sound like a greek chorus, but Eljay has a good idea. I did just that...
...and it was horrible.
But I am still glad I tried it, and because of that I was a lot more confident when I started dating Jenni. I made sure right from the start that she knew I didn't want to be "just" friends.
I married her, so it all worked out for the best.
Seriously, take a chance. If she says no it will hurt more in the short term, but less overall than if you try to work yourself in slowly with her.
(Wow...that sounded dirty even to me, and I KNOW I didn't mean it that way. )
Taking your time places you at risk of losing her even if she cares for you, because she might not think you care enough for her.
Trust me, I should know. Posted by Mr.Funny (Member # 4467) on :
I second the go for it plan. Or third, or fourth, or fifth, or whateverth.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
No, they're all wrong.
What you need to do is treat her like garbage. First, call her and don't leave messages... hang up if she answers. When you see her at school, make a backhanded compliment about her clothing, say: "That skirt would look so nice on you if you were a little taller." When she calls you, burp into the telephone, when you hang out together, make lengthy phone calls to other girls in which you share inside jokes and laugh without explaining them to her.
If you do go out on a date, show up 15 minutes late, and change your restaurant choice to IHOP. Do not bathe. When you get to the restaurant, say you're not hungry, but insist that SHE eat. Let her pay for the dinner, but YOU'LL get the tip. When you get to the movie theatre, change the movie choice to an actioner, and refuse to be sidetracked. Either that, or go to the romantic comedy, and laugh and make fun of it through the whole evening. Eat all the popcorn- you didn't get dinner.
When you're dropping her off, stop by the corner so you don't have to turn in to her street. She can let herself out the door, you just drive away fast. When she calls you, be honest, you're a little busy surfing the web. Be noncommunicative. Chicks dig that kind of thing.
Good luck!
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
Orincoro is absolutely right.
but seriously.
Confident, Dominant, Alpha male behavior. If you're a "nice guy", she won't be attracted to you.
You can still be a gentleman, but in a confident, dominant, way. Think James Bond and Indiana Jones. And always mix humor in there. Make fun of her, just not mean-spirited.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I personally go for a combination of the two.
Pop culture attributes "nice guy" to "pushover."
Be confident and strong, comfortable with yourself, but still be courteous and nice, and joke around. To be honest, if you know her really well I'd say cater to what you know she likes. Some girls like it when guys treat them like crap, I'll never understand it, but they do. And some would really rather a passive relationship. I think the grand majority are willing to overlook a lot so long as you are smart, you pay attention (and be interested) to what they have to say, have a good sense of humor, and are confident and comfortable with yourself.
Dominant and alpha male behavior is just as easily attributed to douchebaggery.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I don't agree with the "dominate" thing, at least not what most people think of as dominate.
I would go for "nice but assertive".
There is a HUGE difference between those two things. Posted by Samarkand (Member # 8379) on :
I don't like dominant guys at all! *eyes moves furtively about the room* At all! I like really nice guys. *Studies shoe.*
But then again the complete idiots get thrown to the curb pretty fast. I like a combination of able to beat the crap out of intruders in the night/ I have to work a little and brings me flowers/ provides chocolate when I'm having a girlie moment.
These men are hard to find.
Anyway. You're already flirting, she's probably just waiting for you to kiss her.
My advice: take it slow, so that she has time to realize she really wants it. ie., don't give her everything all at once.
So say that you have some feelings for her, and ask if she'd be willing to go on a real "date" to try it out. Be your wonderful self, but with all the tension . . . and then, walk her to her door, and gaze into her eyes and tell her it was wonderful, and ask if you can take her out next Friday . . . and don't kiss her! This will work, I swear. Even if she wasn't sure before, this will seal the deal. She will be dying for the kiss the next Friday. Just be sure to compliment her a lot on the first date so she doesn't think you didn't have a good time.
She may grab you and kiss you at the end of the first date, but this is fine - generally when we women find ourselves initiating physical stuff, especially early on, it's because we are REALLY interested. Not because we're like "Oh, hmm, will it ruin the friendship?" We're like "Give me some sugar, now!" Ok, most girls don't say that.
I think I need to go to bed now.
Good night.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Do you guys still have dances in HS? Ask her to a dance. Or, ask her on a date, like to the movies or whatever kids do.
Give her a kiss. That usually works. Posted by TL (Member # 8124) on :
You gotta be a fool for something in this world, so be a fool for love.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
"Girl, you must be tired, because you've been running through my mind all day."
Posted by Ben (Member # 6117) on :
I know a way you can find out if she is the least bit devoted to you. Hurl. If you blow chunks and she comes back, she's yours. If you spew and she bolts, then it was never meant to be.
That way you can find out if it's even worth the effort to take it to the next level.
I'm Helpful.
Posted by Zeugma (Member # 6636) on :
I totally agree with ElJay! You've gotta give this a shot, LD, or you're going to regret it all through college.
I'll just repeat everyone who's said to ask her out in a way that's clear you're wanting to kick things up a notch (candy, flowers, flowers made out of candy....) but also in a smiling/almost-joking kind of way, so it's also clear that she can back out "without hurting your feelings". Which is a crock, of course, but the point is that you don't want to approach her with some sort of dead-serious "I need you or I'll diiiiiie" speech. If you try to make this transition into a romantic relationship as casual as the existing friendship has been, I think you've got a great shot.
Also, flattery rocks. Posted by Ben (Member # 6117) on :
Stand outside her house with a boombox at dawn.
I am chock full of great ideas!
Posted by Libbie (Member # 9529) on :
Most girls that age are most attracted to confident guys who seem very friendly and outgoing, but not in an obnoxious way, of course. I agree with ElJay, too! Great advice. Look confident even if you don't feel it.
And ignore everybody who says that dating has to ruin friendships. I've dated and broken up with lots of very GOOD friends, and we're still very GOOD friends. No worries! Go for it!
Except, after you tell her this and she smiles and blushes and giggles and says, "Okay," then pull a single flower out of your pocket and give it to her, even if it's all crushed from being in your pocket. You'll score big points.
Posted by Libbie (Member # 9529) on :
quote:Originally posted by Little_Doctor:
I feel like a relationship between us could cause so many awkward situations. It almost convinces me it's not worth it.
You're worried that a FAILED relationship between you could cause lots of awkward situations. I say, jump off the bridge when you get to it. A successful relationship could cause a lot of GREAT situations, since your families already get along great, you already know her dad, presumably he already likes and trusts you since you're his assistant, etc. It sounds like the perfect situation to me, frankly.
Good luck, Romeo! You can do it.
(p.s. this thread is unbelievably cute and makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.)
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Love is not the greatest force in the Universe.
Human Stupidity is.
Proof, the amount of love lost due to human stupidity.
Being scared to try is just another flavor of that Human Stupidity.
Simply ask her to a movie, one you know she wants to see. Once she accepts, tell her "Good, its a date." Smile real big.
You pay.
Dinner and movie and anything else you do (I'm talking mini-golf or ice cream after--not hotel rooms or tattoos.).
At the end, get your normal hug good night, but add a peck on the cheek. Then look into her eyes. You'll know if she's happy or not with moving closer then.
Posted by beautifulgirl57 (Member # 9877) on :
quote:Originally posted by Libbie: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Little_Doctor: [qb]
(p.s. this thread is unbelievably cute and makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.)
hahaha!! same here!! good luck, LD. Everyone here has great advice.
Posted by Seatarsprayan (Member # 7634) on :
The thing you need to know is that for men, there are two sexes, men and women. For women, there are men, women, and friends.
And friend equals eunuch.
As a man, you know that if a woman is at all attractive, you have considered her. You may have rejected the idea, but you have thought about it.
Women can have guy friends and IT NEVER OCCURS TO THEM that they are men. Many women, upon finding out that the guy they have been hanging out with is not a eunuch after all, are squicked out or will feel awkward.
Realize that for some women, having a guy friend come on to them is like having your aunt come on to you. It feels gross and wrong.
You need to discover if you are in the man or friend category. I suggest you just go for it, because if she doesn't consider you a man you can decide if you still want to just be friends.
Find out now before you start fantasizing about her and pining after her. Find out while you're still on the fence. "No, you're just a friend." "Okay, just checking. Let's get pizza." Then write her off forever as a romantic interest.
If you're a guy, but not the guy for her right now, you might be able to try again later. Just don't hope for too much, and you can't be disappointed.
Now, as to how to find out what category you are in, personally I did it by actually explaining the whole male/female/friend point of view and then asking which category I was in. It was the man category, and she is now my wife. Your mileage may vary.
But don't come on too strong, and realize that she may not view you as having any gonads at all. Try not to get offended by that. Just tell yourself it's her problem, not yours. ;-)
By the way, my poor wife now realizes she left a trail of crushed hearts behind her; she had many, many guy friends try to be more than that, but they were all eunuchs to her. She didn't understand then. Most women don't.
Good luck.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
L_D: ElJay's advice is really on the mark. My best friend started having those feelings for me and I just didn't pick up on it, and I broke her heart. A few months later I was very much in love with her but she just did not feel that way for me anymore. I spent way too much time depressed about missing out on that opportunity.
If you are good friends, (and you sound like you are), why not give it a shot. If she says yes, won't you be so much happier? If she says no, you sound like close enough friends that she isn't going to run for the hills if you ask.
Just make sure she knows your friendship is not contingent on her, "Putting out."
My best friend was flattered I felt that way for her, and as far as she was concerned she patiently waited for me to get over her. We still hung out and did lots of stuff together.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Little_Doctor, I wish you the best of luck in the world.
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dan_raven: Love is not the greatest force in the Universe.
Human Stupidity is.
Proof, the amount of love lost due to human stupidity.
Being scared to try is just another flavor of that Human Stupidity.
Simply ask her to a movie, one you know she wants to see. Once she accepts, tell her "Good, its a date." Smile real big.
You pay.
Dinner and movie and anything else you do (I'm talking mini-golf or ice cream after--not hotel rooms or tattoos.).
At the end, get your normal hug good night, but add a peck on the cheek. Then look into her eyes. You'll know if she's happy or not with moving closer then.
I'd go with this plan of action since it seems like the one that would make it a bit smoother and likely to make you less nervous.
If she bolts on you, well that's a shame. However...I'm single. Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
BlackBlade, at that age I would have been completely offended if someone in that situation had felt the need to assure me our friendship was not contingent on my putting out. No s&^% it's not. That would have done more to harm a friendship than someone I wasn't interested in making a pass at me would have.
----
Seat, while I realize that there are some women who feel the way you've described, you're making an awfully broad generalization. I would say that in most cases it's not that the woman hasn't thought about the possibility, it's that she's considered and rejected it and moved on. And many women do the whole evaluating every man they meet as a possible mate on a continual basis thing, too. So while I'm glad that "explaining" to her how women think and asking which category you fit into worked for you, it is not a tactic I'd recommened to the population at large.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Also, I think one of the reasons that that belief is so wide-spread is that women are often raised to be "nice," with the understanding that not doing what other people want is being "mean." So it's "nicer" to say "You're such a good friend, I just don't think of you that way!" than to say "Thanks, but I'm not interested" or "Sorry, but I'm not in the slightest bit attracted to you." Even if one of the latter two might be more true. It's also a lot harder to argue with. You'd think "I'm not interested" would be equally hard to argue with, but for some reason people try.
You could argue that you'd rather women say what they mean, and I wouldn't disagree with you, but I'd also say that I'd rather men tell you they're not interested in a second date instead of saying they'll call and then not calling. So I don't think you can effectively call one gender on passive-agressive communication and conflict avoidance. It's a human trait, not a male or female one.
Posted by Seatarsprayan (Member # 7634) on :
It's not just my wife, I have talked to many women who are first surprised, then agree with the "male/female/friend" concept. And many guys as well that have had it bite them because they didn't understand it either.
Of course it's a generalization and not necessarily true for any particular individual, but I seriously doubt it's an isolated point of view, either.
It's like that Far Side comic where the guy is in bed thinking "Does she know I exist? Does she ever think of me like I think of her?" And the woman is in her own bed thinking "you know, I really do like vanilla." The caption is "same planet, two different worlds."
Also, I agree that saying "don't worry, our friendship isn't contingent on you putting out" is offensive, however many women have had guy friends that they thought were friends, then the guy made a move, they stomped on his heart, and he stopped being friends. Because the guys weren't ever really interested in being friends. They were always trying to be more. That's pretty scummy behavior, in my opinion, but guys do it, and some women would be reassured if the guy says "if you want to just stay friends I can do that, I don't just hang out with you because I want to date you, you're just a fun person to be around."
quote: Patrick: I don’t have an agenda. That’s a bit offensive, actually. I’m perfectly capable of being friends with women without any kind of agenda. Steve: For how long? Patrick: As long as it takes.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
I never said it was an isolated point of view. I wouldn't have objected if you'd have said some women, or many women. But you presented it as a universal truth. Which it is not.
And I agree with you about the guys who don't really want to be friends but are always trying to be more. . . but there's a big difference between wanting to start dating someone and expecting them to put out. These are high school students. I know some high schoolers are sexually active, but it's no where near assumed. Saying it's fine if you just want to stay friends is way different than saying it's fine if you won't have sex with me, don't you think?
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
quote: So I don't think you can effectively call one gender on passive-agressive communication and conflict avoidance. It's a human trait, not a male or female one.
Women do it a lot more, though. It's been documented by science and stuff.
Also independently verified by me!
quote: BlackBlade, at that age I would have been completely offended if someone in that situation had felt the need to assure me our friendship was not contingent on my putting out. No s&^% it's not. That would have done more to harm a friendship than someone I wasn't interested in making a pass at me would have.
Also, I don't get this. So, the guy just wanted to reassure you, obviously not realizing it is obvious, and you're going to get offended? You are cranky.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Since I don't see any links to that science and stuff, I'm just going to say that if it is true I believe it's due to socialization more than inherent gender difference.
And maybe we're working from different definitions. To me, "putting out" means sex. And for a high school guy who's never even been on a date with a girl to feel the need to say their continued friendship is not contingent on her sleeping with him is putting the cart so far in front of the horse that yeah, it's offensive. It would make me think that that's all that's been on his mind for the entire friendship, which is exactly the opposite of what the intention would be. At that age, in that sort of a relationship, it's not an issue, so why bring it up? Unless, you know, it really was an issue.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
And don't even think to mention a threesome.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Other things not to say:
"Man, your sister's hot."
"Man, your mom is hot."
"Man, your dad is hot."
"Do these slacks make my hips look big."
"I'll show you mine if you promise not to prosecute."
"You should go to Hatrack.com. There is this thread where people say the silliest things about you."
"Do you mind if we stop at the liquor store. I need to pick up some cash, and I hear they don't even load the gun behind the counter."
"If you truly love me, you'll get a peircing."
"I am not to drive to drunk."
"Oooh, what a nice dress. Can I wear it sometime?"
"I do make great arm candy."
"You are almost as pretty as I am tonight."
"Remember, everything is on me tonight. Can I borrow $50?" (This is especially bad if you then spend only $20 on the date, and pocket the rest.)
"Want to see my collection of whips and restraints?"
"I can't live without my Halo fix"
"Man, california gold is so much better than the mexican weed."
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dan_raven: And don't even think to mention a threesome.
Don't aske what her sexual fantasy is either!
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dan_raven: Other things not to say:
"Man, your sister's hot."
"Man, your mom is hot."
"Man, your dad is hot."
"Do these slacks make my hips look big."
"I'll show you mine if you promise not to prosecute."
"You should go to Hatrack.com. There is this thread where people say the silliest things about you."
"Do you mind if we stop at the liquor store. I need to pick up some cash, and I hear they don't even load the gun behind the counter."
"If you truly love me, you'll get a peircing."
"I am not to drive to drunk."
"Oooh, what a nice dress. Can I wear it sometime?"
"I do make great arm candy."
"You are almost as pretty as I am tonight."
"Remember, everything is on me tonight. Can I borrow $50?" (This is especially bad if you then spend only $20 on the date, and pocket the rest.)
"Want to see my collection of whips and restraints?"
"I can't live without my Halo fix"
"Man, california gold is so much better than the mexican weed."
MILF!!!
Posted by Solo Wing Pixy (Member # 9489) on :
LD, seeing that I have not gone through with such a venture yet, I cannot give you any advice except to take the advice of these knowledgeable people here. All I know is that I was in a similar situation around 6 months ago, did not act, and the pain brought by the regret of not acting is agonizing.
Good luck.
Posted by Astaril (Member # 7440) on :
quote:Simply ask her to a movie, one you know she wants to see. Once she accepts, tell her "Good, its a date." Smile real big.
You pay.
Dinner and movie and anything else you do (I'm talking mini-golf or ice cream after--not hotel rooms or tattoos.).
At the end, get your normal hug good night, but add a peck on the cheek. Then look into her eyes. You'll know if she's happy or not with moving closer then.
See, I really wouldn't advise this route. I would say it's likely to leave her extremely confused, even if she wants to date you too, because she won't know what's going on.
I had exactly this scenario pulled on me - exactly - by a long-time friend and I really wish he had just asked me, just told me he'd like to take me on a date. As it was, it was one of the weirdest, most awkward nights ever, and it took a while before we were hanging out normally again. Realizing halfway through dinner that you're on a date with someone you never intended to date is an extremely unpleasant epiphany. It also made me wonder what signals I had accidentally given already just by accepting the invitation, when I hadn't known. I felt terrible for the guy, because I had no idea if he thought I had agreed to date him already, by agreeing to go out that night to what *I* thought was hanging out with a friend.
The next time he asked me to do something, I had no idea what was going on, so I had to come up with a weird, diplomatic way of saying I was cool with hanging out, but nothing more, when I still wasn't entirely sure if we had been on a date. Then he got all weird on me, like he didn't want to confess he liked me, and it was awkward for a long time until we finally talked about it.
I would say if you're going to tell her, tell her straight up, dude. Good luck!
Posted by Seatarsprayan (Member # 7634) on :
This is what I'm on about. I doubt many guys go out on dates not realizing their dates. Women can do this. It boggles the mind. Not saying it's bad. But it is different.
Guys think they are being really obvious, but because to the women they aren't really guys, it goes unnoticed. Contrariwise, guys see signs when a woman is offering no signs.
For example, for a high school girl to call a guy and chat with him for an hour, he'll think maybe she likes him. Because he sure wouldn't call her just to talk. He doesn't call his guy friends to just talk. He goes out and does things with friends, or does things by himself at home, but doesn't just talk on the phone with his friends. So he thinks she likes him. And it means *nothing* to her!
Disclaimer for ElJay: these are all generalizations. Generalizations cannot be applied to individuals.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
That's from When Harry Met Sally! I love that movie!
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
quote:Originally posted by Seatarsprayan: Disclaimer for ElJay: these are all generalizations. Generalizations cannot be applied to individuals.
Childish much?
Posted by Stan the man (Member # 6249) on :
I think he was trying to avoid your wrath. I can't say I blame them .
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by Seatarsprayan: [QB] The thing you need to know is that for men, there are two sexes, men and women. For women, there are men, women, and friends.
And friend equals eunuch.
In my experience this isn't true at all; I've only been in one significant relationship that didn't grow out of a solid friendship.
The key there is the phrase "solid friendship", rather than "hanging around pretending to be friends while waiting for her to come to her senses and realize how wonderful I am". That is something that I think is fairly common, and that has a fairly low success rate. Plus, it's dishonest, it's skeezy, and it's weak.
quote:Many women, upon finding out that the guy they have been hanging out with is not a eunuch after all, are squicked out or will feel awkward.
I'd guess that a lot of times what they feel squicked out by is a feeling, justified or not, that this person that they thought that they were having an authentic friendship with was actually presenting himself falsely in the hopes that she'd come around.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
ElJay: Not that you gain much from learning how BlackBlade uses the term, "Putting Out," I figured if it bothered you I could clarify what I meant.
For me putting out is any physical manifestation of love beyond friendship.
For ME at least it could be anything from kissing in a passionate way to having sex. I use "Putting Out" to encompase any action that leaves the friendship category and moves into the "together" category.
I understand why, assuming you use Putting Out as meaning only sex, why such an assurance might be offensive at worst and unwarranted at best.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Is that a regional thing, BlackBlade? I've never heard "putting out" to mean anything other than having sex.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Originally posted by Noemon: The key there is the phrase "solid friendship", rather than "hanging around pretending to be friends while waiting for her to come to her senses and realize how wonderful I am". That is something that I think is fairly common, and that has a fairly low success rate. Plus, it's dishonest, it's skeezy, and it's weak.
quote:Many women, upon finding out that the guy they have been hanging out with is not a eunuch after all, are squicked out or will feel awkward.
I'd guess that a lot of times what they feel squicked out by is a feeling, justified or not, that this person that they thought that they were having an authentic friendship with was actually presenting himself falsely in the hopes that she'd come around.
Words of wisdom.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Noemon: Is that a regional thing, BlackBlade? I've never heard "putting out" to mean anything other than having sex.
Probably not, the longest I've lived anywhere at once is 7 years in Hong Kong. Its probably more of a personal use, but I have heard kids in Utah refer to girls who won't be intimate on dates as "refusing to put out."
Sorta in the same vein as, "I tapped that." Pretty sure it means sex to most, but in Utah I've heard it used in regards to making out.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
"I tapped that" always makes my skin crawl, as it seems to be as clear an instance of treating another as merely an object as I can imagine.
(Not that you are advocating the use of the phrase, BlackBlade -- I understand you were using it as an illustration.)
As regards the original post, I've come to the conclusion myself that the only way I can deal with such a situation while maintaining both self-respect and personal honor is eventually* to lay it right out, cards on the table: "I think you are the most amazing, wonderful person I know, and I would love to be closer than friends. If you are only interested in being friends, well, that's still great. I just wanted you to be aware of how highly I regard you." Then smile, chin up, and forge ahead.
It's hard to be deliberately vulnerable, but even with the dancing around, you do still end up (I think) being just as vulnerable when you carry a torch for another. Plus, all the possibility for misinterpretation, weird is-he-or-isn't-he interactions, and so forth all make me feel rather seedy. I'd rather put the emphasis on how incredible this person is, because -- truly -- that is a wonderful thing, regardless of whether or not we are more than friends. Those I am passionate for are people I am really passionate for, but I'm at an age and stage where I trust myself to maintain boundaries as appropriate.
That is to say, I can continue to be "just friends." But once it has been laid out on the table and dealt with directly, I am much more comfortable in setting aside the possibility and moving on. It's actually quite freeing.
---------
*(Following a protracted period of suitably proper communications and sidelong glances, of course. I wouldn't beat about the bush once I knew where I wanted to go with things, but I'd have to locate the bush first. As it were. Ahem.)
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Claudia: I could have avoided many a dreery hour if girls in High School acted the way you do at their age.
Then again, sometimes I shudder when I think of some of the things I did and said when I was in High School.
edit: Also you comment of "Tapped That" reminds me of my 8th grade teacher ranting to our class about how we were all idiots for referring to "Having Sex" as "Making Love."
"Love has nothing to do with sex! You don't need love to have sex!" I believe his point was, that having sex does not instill love in the relationship, which I could agree with.
But half of me wonders if he was assuming that if any of us had sex it wouldn't be with somebody we loved.
You know now that I really think about it, I am still unsure what his point was.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
There is nothing wrong or shameful about thinking someone else is wonderful and amazing. There really isn't. I think the shameful part (at least, for me) is in how I may treat myself or others because of that.
Mind you, things work differently in high school and junior high, I'm sure. Those can be pressure-cooker sorts of environments where good things can be used against you, where multiple unacknowledged (hierarchial) agendas are going on, etc.
Thank goodness for adulthood and relatively free choice about whom to associate with.
----
As my last aside, this is all a moot question for me now, as I am most happily married. It is entirely possible that the theoretical nature of such musings (for me, at this time) tinges them with a rosier glow than is realistic.
Nonetheless, it is an approach I settled on well before I met my husband, and it served me well.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
Hey Little_Doctor, I hope you're still reading this. I don't know if you remember or were around earlier this year (wow ... it's been a long year), but I was in a very similar situation. Almost identical really. I got lots of advice. 5 pages worth. But here's the thing: It's all on you. No one here can give you the answers. I can tell you what happened to me: I asked her out (built her a cake actually, a la Napoleon Dynamite), she said no, it messed up our friendship. Then she changed her mind, and we were "together" for about a month. One blissful month. Then she said it wasn't working out and broke my heart. It took a while but we were able to build our friendship pretty much up to where it was before. Oh, and I should mention I was a high school senior as well.
But here's the thing - There is no doubt in my mind that that situation won't happen with you and your girl. I don't know whats going to happen. No one does. Here's my advice though, from recent and painfully fresh experience: Do what YOU want. All this advice people are giving, it's just preparing you for what happens after. It's just so you can look back and see that you are not alone in whatever happens. The actual moment when you choose to act or not to act, that's all you. Eljay, Noemon, Uprooted, Blackblade, Seatarspayn (forgive me if I butchered your name), myself, everyone who's given you advice ... Everything we say will go out the window. So just do it. Or don't. Then come back here and we'll give you a hug or a high five.
Posted by Little_Doctor (Member # 6635) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dr Strangelove: Hey Little_Doctor, I hope you're still reading this. I don't know if you remember or were around earlier this year (wow ... it's been a long year), but I was in a very similar situation. Almost identical really. I got lots of advice. 5 pages worth. But here's the thing: It's all on you. No one here can give you the answers. I can tell you what happened to me: I asked her out (built her a cake actually, a la Napoleon Dynamite), she said no, it messed up our friendship. Then she changed her mind, and we were "together" for about a month. One blissful month. Then she said it wasn't working out and broke my heart. It took a while but we were able to build our friendship pretty much up to where it was before. Oh, and I should mention I was a high school senior as well.
But here's the thing - There is no doubt in my mind that that situation won't happen with you and your girl. I don't know whats going to happen. No one does. Here's my advice though, from recent and painfully fresh experience: Do what YOU want. All this advice people are giving, it's just preparing you for what happens after. It's just so you can look back and see that you are not alone in whatever happens. The actual moment when you choose to act or not to act, that's all you. Eljay, Noemon, Uprooted, Blackblade, Seatarspayn (forgive me if I butchered your name), myself, everyone who's given you advice ... Everything we say will go out the window. So just do it. Or don't. Then come back here and we'll give you a hug or a high five.
Will do. I've been reading all of the suggestions and I really appreciate them. I'm still on the fence about what I'm going to do, but I'll be sure to let you all know as soon as I decide.
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
Don't over think it, you wont be able to Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
I agree with b34n, actually.
Don't stress too much about it all... If you wind up as friends, cool. If you wind up together, cool.
She's your friend, regardless. Let it play out however you feel comfortable leading, and following, it.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
In situations like these in the past, I've always found that if you are really good friends, then asking her to be your girlfriend won't "mess up your friendship." If she doesn't want to be your girlfriend, you'll still be friends (possibly after a short period of feeling kind of silly).
As an older person, let me tell you that you really have to ask her out if you like her. Every man has to ask girls on dates, sometimes he gets a date, sometimes he gets rejected. You have to do it, and the sooner you start, the sooner you'll be successful. The longer you let being nervous or shy hold you back, the longer until you get a girlfriend.
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