Good day everybody! How are you all doing? I've been a lurker at this forum for a little while. I apologize for using my first post to tell you what has already been told a million times, but I really feel the need to say this, in light of some of the recent posts I've seen.
Don't hold a grudge.
I've been lurking here long enough to see that, while Hatrack is a very nice place, there are a couple of ugly, hurtful things that have been said. Arguments have spilled over from one thread to another, and some people have taken it upon themselves to attack a certain person regardless of the subject matter of the thread.
That has to stop.
All people have the potential for change. The most naive person alive could, in a thread, create something legitimate, and have a wonderful discussion. Someone who is normally vitriolic in discussions about a certain subject could later make an objective, well-worded and meaningful post on the subject and contribute to a helpful, enlightened discussion. So don't ignore posts simply because of who made it, and don't make personal attacks on people.
Another rather disturbing trend in some threads is posting simply to de-rail and discredit the thread. Posting to say that you are ignoring someone, or posting to disrupt a discussion due to a personal problem with a poster, is destructive to the spirit of open discussion. As is calling someone ignorant or stupid. Regardless of who the other poster is, or what they might have done.
And finally, in the spirit of togetherness, lighten up. Don't fight fire with fire, vitriol with vitriol, however much you think the other deserves it. If someone attacks you, don't attack back. If you are given a punch and respond in kind, how can you truly say that you were the better? Be happy that you belong to such a beautiful community, and can freely discuss any allowed subject without fear of harrasment. Don't worry, be happy.
-R.M.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Rotar Mode, are you some kind of anagrammatic moderator?
And I didn't mean that in a hating, vitriolic way.
Posted by Euripides (Member # 9315) on :
Welcome to Hatrack, RM. Don't mind Tante, she just couldn't help herself
Edit: Whoops, sorry! How ignorant and sexist of me.
[ November 25, 2006, 09:35 PM: Message edited by: Euripides ]
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Tante means aunt, Shvester means Sister, I don't think Esther means man.
Posted by Rotar Mode (Member # 9898) on :
I thought Tante was a she...
It is an anagram, but I didn't think of the word Moderator until now.
Edit: it seems that breyerchic04 beat me to it.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
You see, I thought he just puntuated that improperly:
Don't mind, Tante, he just couldn't help himself. Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I agree. Fighting wears me out. That's why I get so sick of all the arguing on big topics. There's enough of that on other forums, even on Dir en grey forums. All I want to do is to talk about how cool the band is and how wonderful their music is and some irratating goon has to come along going on about how they are a bigger fan than me because I've only been into them for 5 years and they've been into them for 9. Irratating. People need to chill. I hate social Darwinism.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: I hate social Darwinism.
Oh now, let's have none of that. Especially on this thread.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tante Shvester:
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: I hate social Darwinism.
Oh now, let's have none of that. Especially on this thread.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Personally, anti-social Darwinism isn't my thing, but if it works for you, uh, stay away from me?
-Bok
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
*doesn't stay away from Bok* *in fact annoys him constantly and makes him wear really stupid paper hats and laughs at him*
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
I don't see how there can be any "togetherness" when everything I say is written off. I also don't see how there can be any "togetherness" when people feel perfectly free to gang up on and pick on me and still think that they don't owe any kind of apology. So I'm not going to lighten up. I feel like I get treated like everyone's freaking doormat here, and no one has listened to what I've been trying to express to him/her. Instead, they make slightly more polite and even more insidious comments and make it impossible for any of my ideas to actually be addressed.
-pH
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I get ignored often...
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Pearce, I'm really sorry to see you say that. I respect you and have tried to be supportive.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
But it is incredibly difficult for me to say ANYTHING when I feel like all someone has to do is mention money and then all of a sudden nothing that I say is valid anymore. Which is pretty much the same way I felt on how everyone jumped all over me for deleting a thread in which....I was being insulted and treated like crap. Why do I have to be the whipping boy? Are my feelings less valid? Are my thoughts less valid? 'cause that's exactly how I'm being treated by a lot of people.
-pH
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
From what I've seen, people haven't ganged up on you because it was you, but because they all disagreed with what you said.
I don't know if that helps or not.
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
quote:Originally posted by pH: I don't see how there can be any "togetherness" when everything I say is written off. I also don't see how there can be any "togetherness" when people feel perfectly free to gang up on and pick on me and still think that they don't owe any kind of apology. So I'm not going to lighten up. I feel like I get treated like everyone's freaking doormat here, and no one has listened to what I've been trying to express to him/her. Instead, they make slightly more polite and even more insidious comments and make it impossible for any of my ideas to actually be addressed.
-pH
Yes, pH is my doormat, and she reads "Get Lost". I clean my muddy boots on her before I walk inside and I hide my keys beneath her. She receives my Sunday paper and she is stepped on by every one who walks inside: even complete strangers.
Yes, pH is my doormat.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
What, a Pearce, or a doormat?
-Bok
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: From what I've seen, people haven't ganged up on you because it was you, but because they all disagreed with what you said.
I don't know if that helps or not.
I don't see how one can disagree with "Some of what I've read here is really hurting my feelings; I'd appreciate it if you'd be a little more mindful."
-pH
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: I get ignored often...
Hi Syn.
(I just couldn't let this post be ignored. The pathos would have killed me. And incidentally, I read all your posts. The fact I don't comment doesn't mean I'm ignoring you - sometimes I just don't have anything valid or constructive to say.)
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
quote:Originally posted by pH:
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: From what I've seen, people haven't ganged up on you because it was you, but because they all disagreed with what you said.
I don't know if that helps or not.
I don't see how one can disagree with "Some of what I've read here is really hurting my feelings; I'd appreciate it if you'd be a little more mindful."
-pH
Doormats have feelings?
EDIT: Actually, I'm not sure if I've ever seen any of the threads you are describing, could you please provide me some links so I can go forth and defend the honor of my precious doormat?
Posted by Libbie (Member # 9529) on :
What? What's going on here? Where did this all come from?
Also, do we have to keep apologizing for the stuff with the deleted thread? I thought we all tried to make it really clear that we were trying to have a discussion in that thread about the topic you started, pH, and that the only moment when we got upset with you was when you deleted an entire day's worth of thoughtful conversation.
Listen, I like you a whole lot and I think you're a really fun girl. But to be honest, you seem to bring up the idea that you're constantly being picked on, especially for your wealth, an awful lot. I would understand why you feel this way if I EVER saw it happening here on Hatrack, but I never, ever have. So I can't really understand why you feel that we all hate and persecute you because you have money. I really can't.
Also, I don't ignore Syn. She's fun.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by pH:
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: From what I've seen, people haven't ganged up on you because it was you, but because they all disagreed with what you said.
I don't know if that helps or not.
I don't see how one can disagree with "Some of what I've read here is really hurting my feelings; I'd appreciate it if you'd be a little more mindful."
-pH
That's not what I meant. When you feel like you're being ganged up on or dogpiled, in my observation, it isn't happening because people have chosen to pick on you; it's happening because you've said something that a lot of people disagree with.
I'm talking about the inital disagreement.
Posted by Rotar Mode (Member # 9898) on :
I'm very sorry to hear that, pH. I'm sorry if you feel that Hatrack doesn't take you seriously, or if you feel that people tend to gang up on you. From what I've seen of you in my lurking days, you are a generally well-informed, likeable poster, and I tend to be very interested in what you have to say.
The togetherness I spoke of is very real, in my eyes. Never have I seen such an online community, where people can discuss anything and get a well-informed opinion, where people routinely get together and have fun offline, where people can jump from one thread discussing politics to a thread discussing Thanksgiving recipies. A forum where people actually know each other's names (so far I've learned Pearce and Esther), and where people are so genuinely supportive.
A question. Have you brought these issues up with the other members? Perhaps they slighted you accidentally or in ignorance. Have you asked for an apology?
Posted by Rotar Mode (Member # 9898) on :
Wow, while I was typing, about seven people posted.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
If you aren't a Mod, please telling people what they can and can't do. Most people on Hatrack are very patient most of the time, but some things shouldn't be tolerated. And just because you feel like some things have gotten out of control doesn't mean everyone agrees with you, nor do you have the right to tell people what "must" happen.
If someone is constantly belligerent, ignorant, and combative, sometimes the only thing to do is stop letting them get their own way. I am not talking about feeding trolls, although it can be a close call at times. I am talking about standing up to what amounts to internet bullies.
After a few times one thing or another happens.....either they reveal themselves as trolls, they realize that such behavior isn't tolerated and focus on actual discussions, or they leave.
I am sick of the crap I have been reading the past two months, and have decided that it was time to say so. Nothing you can "order" me to do will matter.
Like we have never had someone try to use an alt like this before. I may be wrong, but time will tell.
BTW, I am NOT talking about you, pH. I don't even know what thread you are referring to, to be honest.
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
That's what I asked for from pH in my last post.
Posted by Rotar Mode (Member # 9898) on :
I assume you wished to state that I should please stop telling people what to do. I assure you that was not my intention. Perhaps I should reword my first post.
Where is it that you think I crossed the line?
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rotar Mode: I assume you wished to state that I should please stop telling people what to do. I assure you that was not my intention. Perhaps I should reword my first post.
Where is it that you think I crossed the line?
Perhaps...I am also really tired. Black Friday was a 14 hour day for me, and today was a 10 hour one. Sorry if I snapped at you a bit. But these comments of mine today weren't random, nor did I say anything that I did not intend to say. I don't know you, or if you are an alt, but anyone telling me what I can and can't so at this point, when I have been more than tolerant for months of this crap, would rub me the wrong way.
In theory you probably are correct....and if you look at my posting history for the most part it bears that out. I have had numerous discussions wiht people of an opposing viewpoint here at Hatrack, and never a cross word was said even if we never agreed.
But those rules only work if everyone agrees to them. If you have people who don't then you need to explain to them, very clearly, what you think of them.
If you don't then you are contributing to the very same decline you object to.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
quote:Originally posted by Libbie: What? What's going on here? Where did this all come from?
Also, do we have to keep apologizing for the stuff with the deleted thread? I thought we all tried to make it really clear that we were trying to have a discussion in that thread about the topic you started, pH, and that the only moment when we got upset with you was when you deleted an entire day's worth of thoughtful conversation.
And why, pray tell, do YOU think I deleted that thread? The mere fact that you're bewildered by my deleting it simply proves my point. No one has EVER apologized to me directly for all of the things that were said to and about me in that thread. On top of that, I DO get picked on because when I try to comment on something, it turns into "Well, you just say that because you have money" or some crap like that. It always comes down to I just don't understand and therefore no one has to pay attention. Well, YOU obviously don't understand how much it hurts for people to constantly comment about how kids whose parents pay for their school are brats who don't really appreciate their education. Which is what I was TRYING to point out with the deleted thread. For which I was promptly attacked. And then I was attacked for deleting a thread in which I was attacked to the point that it made me cry. You know, when I mention something about needing a new dishwasher and someone makes a post essentially saying that I should just wash them by hand...that hurts. When I try to discuss anything about health care and all anyone will say to me is that I only think X because apparently I am just rolling in it, that hurts. And apparently, no one ever thinks about that kind of thing. And when I try to point it out, all of a sudden I'M the one being judgmental.
-pH
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
quote:Originally posted by pH:
quote:Originally posted by Libbie: What? What's going on here? Where did this all come from?
Also, do we have to keep apologizing for the stuff with the deleted thread? I thought we all tried to make it really clear that we were trying to have a discussion in that thread about the topic you started, pH, and that the only moment when we got upset with you was when you deleted an entire day's worth of thoughtful conversation.
And why, pray tell, do YOU think I deleted that thread? The mere fact that you're bewildered by my deleting it simply proves my point. No one has EVER apologized to me directly for all of the things that were said to and about me in that thread. On top of that, I DO get picked on because when I try to comment on something, it turns into "Well, you just say that because you have money" or some crap like that. It always comes down to I just don't understand and therefore no one has to pay attention. Well, YOU obviously don't understand how much it hurts for people to constantly comment about how kids whose parents pay for their school are brats who don't really appreciate their education. Which is what I was TRYING to point out with the deleted thread. For which I was promptly attacked. And then I was attacked for deleting a thread in which I was attacked to the point that it made me cry. You know, when I mention something about needing a new dishwasher and someone makes a post essentially saying that I should just wash them by hand...that hurts. When I try to discuss anything about health care and all anyone will say to me is that I only think X because apparently I am just rolling in it, that hurts. And apparently, no one ever thinks about that kind of thing. And when I try to point it out, all of a sudden I'M the one being judgmental.
-pH
Pearce love, I think you need to calm down. Personally, I never got to actually see the thread so although I believe that perhaps some of the things there could've been offensive, I don't have anything I could use to defend you on this one. Not that I think you need me to defend you or anything.
Posted by Euripides (Member # 9315) on :
If it's any consolation my parents are paying for my 5 year degree, and we have a dish washer.
Posted by msquared (Member # 4484) on :
pH
I never knew you had money. It does not matter to me. My family has money. My parents are, by all measures, very well off. Dad can buy a $75,000 sports car for cash. All of the grand kids college educations, through a Master's degree, are paid for. Three houses. Big deal.
It is how you handle yourself on the site that matters. In my experience, if you don't make a big deal of your status, others will not either.
However, that is just my experience. Yours may, and seems to have, vary.
msquared
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by pH:
quote:Originally posted by Libbie: What? What's going on here? Where did this all come from?
Also, do we have to keep apologizing for the stuff with the deleted thread? I thought we all tried to make it really clear that we were trying to have a discussion in that thread about the topic you started, pH, and that the only moment when we got upset with you was when you deleted an entire day's worth of thoughtful conversation.
And why, pray tell, do YOU think I deleted that thread? The mere fact that you're bewildered by my deleting it simply proves my point. No one has EVER apologized to me directly for all of the things that were said to and about me in that thread. On top of that, I DO get picked on because when I try to comment on something, it turns into "Well, you just say that because you have money" or some crap like that. It always comes down to I just don't understand and therefore no one has to pay attention. Well, YOU obviously don't understand how much it hurts for people to constantly comment about how kids whose parents pay for their school are brats who don't really appreciate their education. Which is what I was TRYING to point out with the deleted thread. For which I was promptly attacked. And then I was attacked for deleting a thread in which I was attacked to the point that it made me cry. You know, when I mention something about needing a new dishwasher and someone makes a post essentially saying that I should just wash them by hand...that hurts. When I try to discuss anything about health care and all anyone will say to me is that I only think X because apparently I am just rolling in it, that hurts. And apparently, no one ever thinks about that kind of thing. And when I try to point it out, all of a sudden I'M the one being judgmental.
-pH
I do not mean to sound insensitive, but do not let these people bring you down. They know very little about you and your situation and you are cool and solid. Folks that say stuff like that are making ridiculous assumptions they should stop making. *flower and some taco bell and a small skronky cute little pine tree* Do not feel bad....
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
I just assumed this thread was aimed at me (at least in part) because of the stuff going on with GS.
I'd be happy to explain why I am not more tolerant of some of the things he does. There's quite a bit of back story there, much of it that has not gone on in the public forums but which convinced me that if I want to stay at Hatrack I have to continue to invest in it even when it is painful.
I understand that sometimes ignoring the misbehavior is a better (more effective, less upsetting for everyone else) tactic. I would like to assure everyone that I didn't decide on this approach lightly. But also wish to assure everyone that if I became convinced that it is ultimately harming Hatrack's community to be confrontational about things I see as destructive of the place, I would stop it immediately.
Right now, I'm not convinced of that. But do feel free to point out the negative impact of it if you feel strongly about it. Either publicly or in e-mail. I might just be missing the larger "downsides" of this.
As for pH, I didn't see the thread in question, so I can't comment on it, but I grew up around people who were much, much, much richer than me, some of whom were spoiled little rich kids and some of whom were genuine, warm people.
Pearce in person is a genuine, warm person. I think she's also very funny.
I don't have a sense of her coming off any other way here at Hatrack, but maybe that's just because we met and the impression she left with us was a strong positive one.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bob_Scopatz: I'd be happy to explain why I am not more tolerant of some of the things he does. There's quite a bit of back story there, much of it that has not gone on in the public forums but which convinced me that if I want to stay at Hatrack I have to continue to invest in it even when it is painful.
I understand that sometimes ignoring the misbehavior is a better (more effective, less upsetting for everyone else) tactic. I would like to assure everyone that I didn't decide on this approach lightly. But also wish to assure everyone that if I became convinced that it is ultimately harming Hatrack's community to be confrontational about things I see as destructive of the place, I would stop it immediately.
Right now, I'm not convinced of that. But do feel free to point out the negative impact of it if you feel strongly about it. Either publicly or in e-mail. I might just be missing the larger "downsides" of this.
Amen.
I have never discussed this with Bob, here or in email, but in this we completely agree. Posted by Rotar Mode (Member # 9898) on :
Bob, my post was in no way directed at you. Indeed, in the little I have seen in those discussions, you have set the bar for online behaviour. I have never once in my (very short) history at Hatrack, seen you attack someone.
I did not name a specific thread, as I was posting to address a general trend. However, looking back at my first post, I can see where I made some phrasing errors. I think I will edit it tomorrow, after a good long night's sleep.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Just for another example:
If you look in my OCD thread and find the part where I talk about my therapist calling me names and being mean to me, you'll also find at least one comment stating that what the person though I was REALLY upset about was "How DARE someone speak to me like that!"
That's really, REALLY hurtful. I mean, there I was talking about something that had upset me to no end because not only had someone picked on me, but my THERAPIST had picked on me....and it somehow is still interpreted from the "You're a snob" angle.
-pH
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Some therapist... They should not talk about you like that. Did you get a new one? That's not acceptable therapist behavior.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:I feel like I get treated like everyone's freaking doormat here
You don't. I haven't said anything about this before -- despite your frequent mention of this impression -- but I really do believe that your perception in this case is far removed from the reality. Perhaps you would be better off directly addressing the people you think have slighted you....?
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rotar Mode: Bob, my post was in no way directed at you. Indeed, in the little I have seen in those discussions, you have set the bar for online behaviour. I have never once in my (very short) history at Hatrack, seen you attack someone.
I did not name a specific thread, as I was posting to address a general trend. However, looking back at my first post, I can see where I made some phrasing errors. I think I will edit it tomorrow, after a good long night's sleep.
Not necessary, and uncalled for, to be honest. You have made it clear that it wasn't intended as an "order", despite how it was phrased.
You can do what you would like, of course, up to and including deleting the whole thread, but rather than editing entire swathes of your initial post I would recommend just clarifying. It is usually considered better manners that way, because it doesn't make the posts after your seem irrelevant once the edit is done. Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
quote:Originally posted by pH: Just for another example:
If you look in my OCD thread and find the part where I talk about my therapist calling me names and being mean to me, you'll also find at least one comment stating that what the person though I was REALLY upset about was "How DARE someone speak to me like that!"
That's really, REALLY hurtful. I mean, there I was talking about something that had upset me to no end because not only had someone picked on me, but my THERAPIST had picked on me....and it somehow is still interpreted from the "You're a snob" angle.
-pH
Can you provide us with a link to said thread?
Posted by Rotar Mode (Member # 9898) on :
I'm definitely not going to delete this thread. I will take your advice to heart and clarify. Tommorow. After sleep. Lots of sleep.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
quote:This sounds like lese majesty - outrage that someone would dare say something like that to you and you want to make sure they'll regret it
-pH
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I hear you there....and welcome to Hatrack, if you really were a lurker.
When I started here people didn't believe I was new, and I had a ...rough....introduction, at least from some people. I have found a number of real friends here though, and I love this place.
I hope you really do as well. Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
quote:I understand that sometimes ignoring the misbehavior is a better (more effective, less upsetting for everyone else) tactic. I would like to assure everyone that I didn't decide on this approach lightly. But also wish to assure everyone that if I became convinced that it is ultimately harming Hatrack's community to be confrontational about things I see as destructive of the place, I would stop it immediately.
My comment is general. I also tend to agree with the sentiment that certain behaviors, including trolling and bullying, should not be tolerated and allowed to run rampant. There is far too much of that going on here. It has made Hatrack much less enjoyable to me.
Unfortunately, I frequently don't have the energy to do much about it myself. I applaud and support those who do and who do so in a reasoned and thoughtful manner. That includes Bob and Kwea and many others.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I don't want to be an old, curmundgy person always talking about the "golden times".....there really weren't any "golden times", to be honest. We had Ced, and w2w, and OSCfan, just to mention a few.
But in the past, people did seem to be less whiny, and less willfully ignorant.
At some point, you HAVE to say enough is enough. That isn't to say I claim to be an ultimate arbitrator in any sense of the word, but I will not allow some thing to pass without comment.
I thrive on disagreement. Really, I do......but disagreement isn't the same as argument. I can argue a point, or debate it, with anyone and not make it personal. But when I have to sit a read slam after slam on people I care about....and when the same jackass attempts to threaten MY welcome and MY credibility when he himself is a jumped up, ignorant nOOb that no one likes or respects, I WILL call him on it.
(Yeah, "chum", I mean you.)
No one has to agree with me. I know the people I care about here, and most of them know I care, and that is enough for me. But I am tired of seeing some of the best people I have ever met leaving Hatrack....mostly because they are tired of the ignorant, adolecent attitudes others are giving them here.
Not everyone, not even a large minority.....but there has been some BS floating around here for too many months, and no one has fully called anyone out on it.
When people come in here and crap on our lawn, and we don't at least vocally object to it, it sets a bad example for other new people here. The ones who AREN'T part of the problem. They start to think that Hatrack is just another place on the web, less of a community than it always has been. It lessens us in their eyes, and that lessens the community as a whole.
I will not allow that to happen, at least not without pointing it out to us as a community. If we decide to tacitly allow this type of crap then that is fine. But no one will ever be able to say I was part of why it ended so poorly.
Enough said.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by pH:
quote:Originally posted by Libbie: What? What's going on here? Where did this all come from?
Also, do we have to keep apologizing for the stuff with the deleted thread? I thought we all tried to make it really clear that we were trying to have a discussion in that thread about the topic you started, pH, and that the only moment when we got upset with you was when you deleted an entire day's worth of thoughtful conversation.
And why, pray tell, do YOU think I deleted that thread? The mere fact that you're bewildered by my deleting it simply proves my point. No one has EVER apologized to me directly for all of the things that were said to and about me in that thread. On top of that, I DO get picked on because when I try to comment on something, it turns into "Well, you just say that because you have money" or some crap like that. It always comes down to I just don't understand and therefore no one has to pay attention. Well, YOU obviously don't understand how much it hurts for people to constantly comment about how kids whose parents pay for their school are brats who don't really appreciate their education. Which is what I was TRYING to point out with the deleted thread. For which I was promptly attacked. And then I was attacked for deleting a thread in which I was attacked to the point that it made me cry. You know, when I mention something about needing a new dishwasher and someone makes a post essentially saying that I should just wash them by hand...that hurts. When I try to discuss anything about health care and all anyone will say to me is that I only think X because apparently I am just rolling in it, that hurts. And apparently, no one ever thinks about that kind of thing. And when I try to point it out, all of a sudden I'M the one being judgmental.
-pH
I was quite active in that thread, and I remember it, and the one that followed it. I think you were being overly sensitive, though you did have a valid complaint in it. For the most part, people did however seem to be taking issue with your positions, rather than you as a person (though I can easily see how the two would be connected in that specific circumstance).
Furthermore, you were quite hostile towards me in and out of that thread, and I've yet to receive an apology over it. I was more neutral than anything, because I personally disagreed with you, but refused to 'go after you,' so I attempted to keep asking questions to all sides to get people to clarify, as I knew you were taking personal offense to everything. But you came after me anyways, which I think only serves as an example of how out of proportion you were taking the posts in that thread.
Other than those two threads, and your repeated mentions of the OCD thread (which I haven't ventured into), I haven't seen any anti-Pearce activity anywhere else. Do you take up these issues with individuals outside of Hatrack? (Hopefully not as confrontationally as you did with me).
Posted by Shawshank (Member # 8453) on :
pH, I for one have never really thought that about you. I realize I do a lot more reading than posting- but it just seems like sometimes you take things a little too personally. Especially here lately.
Take a breath. Take another one- I've seen a few people make some elitist comments thinking they were sticking up for the anti-elitist cause in various threads (although I can't remember who they were- I just remembered being somewhat shocked by what they were saying)
But don't let their remarks make you lose control and become paranoid.
The place has been a little bit more negative here in general lately. But I think Bob and Kwea are right in saying that certain problems need to be dealt with. Ignoring is not always the answer- sometimes you got to fight back a little bit.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
As long as that isn't ALL you do.
Honestly, I still love this place. I think that most people do, and that is why it is worth fighting for, as long as that doesn't become ALL you do here. Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
quote:This sounds like lese majesty - outrage that someone would dare say something like that to you and you want to make sure they'll regret it
-pH
After going through the thread you linked to, I have to say that I'm not sure if I can take sides here. For the most part, I understand your frustrations with your therapist and I also believe that her behavior was highly unprofessional; however, I couldn't understand why you had to snap at katherina so harshly when it seemed like she was genuinely trying to help you. I don't have OCD, nor do I personally know anybody who has it, so I'm not capable of really knowing how it affects you, but if a therapist treated me the way yours did, all I would do is fire her discreetly, and just never go to her again. In other words, I'd just get over it and move on, she's not the only therapist in the world. And perhaps, she could've been right, maybe you are spoiled, but it was not her place to put it that way. I'm not one to say whether you are indeed spoiled or not, I don't believe I know you that well, but I would at least want to know why someone would've called me that. Perhaps what you need is not a therapist, but something else. Perhaps you need to set order to your life on your own.
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kwea: I don't want to be an old, curmundgy person always talking about the "golden times".....there really weren't any "golden times", to be honest. We had Ced, and w2w, and OSCfan, just to mention a few.
And newfoundlogic...
Posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan (Member # 5626) on :
I think you might want to read that quote from Kwea again, Alt...
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
nfl didn't exactly leave but in a way, our community is less without him. He always had something good to say.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
The point that Kwea was making, though, was that we had trolls and boors and bullies back then. newfoundlogic is not one of those. That's what RRR was getting at. Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
Yes, but I was trying to make a point that although there was never really those "golden times" just like she pointed out, our community has changed because of people leaving. In other words, we miss the people that she mentioned in the beginning, and I decided to add NFL's name to that list since I kinda miss him too. Hatrack just isn't the same without him. Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
quote:I don't see how there can be any "togetherness" when everything I say is written off. I also don't see how there can be any "togetherness" when people feel perfectly free to gang up on and pick on me and still think that they don't owe any kind of apology.
I would not say you are alone in that boat on Hatrack. There may be more people in that boat than out of it. At least we are together insofar as we are all written off by one another together... Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
This forum has some very strange and amorphous boundaries, which create a strange sort of nega-insult environment. If you skirt the rules well enough and don't go into flagrant abuse of the rules too often, then you just end up getting some threads locked on your account but may well end up being essentially able to float yourself indefinitely on 'established' status.
Posted by Libbie (Member # 9529) on :
quote:Originally posted by pH: And why, pray tell, do YOU think I deleted that thread? The mere fact that you're bewildered by my deleting it simply proves my point.
Since you asked, and to be perfectly honest, I think you deleted it because you didn't like the fact that people weren't sympathizing with you.
And how does my bewilderment that somebody would delete an entire conversation "prove your point" that you're persecuted for your wealth?
quote: No one has EVER apologized to me directly for all of the things that were said to and about me in that thread.
Yes they did. I know I did. Many others did. You didn't choose to register those apologies, possibly because they were given among expressions of anger at the fact that you deleted our posts without any warning.
quote: On top of that, I DO get picked on because when I try to comment on something, it turns into "Well, you just say that because you have money" or some crap like that. It always comes down to I just don't understand and therefore no one has to pay attention.
If you can link me to ONE instance of this having happened when it was NOT a totally salient part of the topic, I will believe you and never say that you're choosing to be oversensitive to this issue ever again.
quote: Well, YOU obviously don't understand how much it hurts for people to constantly comment about how kids whose parents pay for their school are brats who don't really appreciate their education.
I guess I don't, because my dad snorted my substantial college fund up his nose in the late 80s and I ended up with zero college education because of it. YOU obviously don't understand how much that hurts, because you haven't had to live through it. What is your point, exactly? Neither of us has walked in the other's shoes, so why try to force each other to see the world through the other's eyes? It will never happen.
I told you in the thread you deleted AND in the subsequent thread on the topic that I don't believe that ALL "rich kids" are unappreciative of the gift they've been given. I told you that I know several kids whose parents paid their way through school, and not only are they appropriately grateful of their fortunate life, they are some of my closest friends and favorite people in the world. If that doesn't prove that I'm not some anti-wealth bogeyman, I don't know what does. What more do you want from me on this particular topic? What more do you want from ANY of us on this topic?
quote: Which is what I was TRYING to point out with the deleted thread. For which I was promptly attacked. And then I was attacked for deleting a thread in which I was attacked to the point that it made me cry.
Yes - and once again, we "attacked" you because you deleted our comments. Do you not understand what that meant to us? It meant that YOU did not see our experiences and thoughts as valid - in fact, they were so invalid to you that you wiped them from the board so that nobody else could ever read them. It was rude and inconsiderate, and it showed exactly what you thought of all of us. Hurt feelings or no, what right did you have to destroy a day's worth of conversation we were all having with one another? You disrespected us and essentially told us by your actions that you felt that you were the only one in that thread who mattered. THAT is why we were angry with you. As we've tried to tell you then and since.
quote:You know, when I mention something about needing a new dishwasher and someone makes a post essentially saying that I should just wash them by hand...that hurts.
I'm not being facetious here - why does that hurt? Is it the way they said it? Can you link me to that post so that I can understand why that comment hurt you? Because I probably would have offered the same suggestion. If you don't have a dishwasher that works, wash 'em by hand. I mean, it's sensible, isn't it? I don't understand why that comment hurt you, or how it was an attack for your wealth.
quote: When I try to discuss anything about health care and all anyone will say to me is that I only think X because apparently I am just rolling in it, that hurts. And apparently, no one ever thinks about that kind of thing. And when I try to point it out, all of a sudden I'M the one being judgmental.
When did this happen? I'm not saying it never did, mind you - I just don't remember ever seeing that.
Pearce, you take this far too seriously. It's not good for you to dwell on this topic. It's obviously a continuing source of anger and hurt for you. Why? Nobody here is trying to attack you. As far as I can tell, just about everybody here really likes you and considers you a friend. I can't for the life of me figure out how you're being persecuted on this forum. Why can't you take it at face value when we tell you that we never meant to "attack" you and that we continue to not attack you? Isn't it good enough that your friends are all here saying that they're supportive of you and that what you perceived as attacks or jabs weren't given in that spirit at all?
Posted by Libbie (Member # 9529) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kwea: As long as that isn't ALL you do.
Honestly, I still love this place. I think that most people do, and that is why it is worth fighting for, as long as that doesn't become ALL you do here.
In my experience, any forum worth belonging to fluctuates this way - periods of relative peace, periods of relative battle. The nice thing is that just about everybody's still friends with everybody else through it all. Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Rotar Mode,
Thanks for the clarification. I was genuinely concerned because at least part of me thinks it is very unpleasant to drag everyong else at Hatrack through a disagreement I'm having with just one other person. It really sucks.
I don't think your post was bad in any way.
Thanks again!
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
quote:Originally posted by Libbie:
quote:Originally posted by Kwea: As long as that isn't ALL you do.
Honestly, I still love this place. I think that most people do, and that is why it is worth fighting for, as long as that doesn't become ALL you do here.
In my experience, any forum worth belonging to fluctuates this way - periods of relative peace, periods of relative battle. The nice thing is that just about everybody's still friends with everybody else through it all.
Awwww.
Posted by Libbie (Member # 9529) on :
HUGS! (not drugs)
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
quote:I guess I don't, because my dad snorted my substantial college fund up his nose in the late 80s and I ended up with zero college education because of it. YOU obviously don't understand how much that hurts, because you haven't had to live through it.
Do you see me pointing that out every single time you post something? No. There is the difference. Whenever I post something that someone disagrees with, they always bring up money, which is a crock.
quote:Yes - and once again, we "attacked" you because you deleted our comments.
I was attacked in the ORIGINAL THREAD which is why I deleted it. I don't know how many more times I can say that. And considering that the purpose of the original thread was to pretty much say, "I've seen a lot of these kinds of comments here, and whether or not you guys mean them towards me, they really hurt my feelings," I fail to see where there was any room to disagree. Unless we have a psychic connection and you can tell exactly how I feel.
quote:Pearce, you take this far too seriously. It's not good for you to dwell on this topic. It's obviously a continuing source of anger and hurt for you. Why? Nobody here is trying to attack you.
Because if I just let it go, it will keep happening. And keep happening. And keep happening. And as I TRIED to explain in that damn thread, I put up with enough of that crap in real life. Why shouldn't I dwell on it? Did anyone offer an apology? No. Why should I forgive people who don't even care that they're hurting me? That's why I think it's ridiculous to say that there's no attack intended, since I tried to point out from the beginning that certain things hurt my feelings because they felt like attacks. The board as a whole was informed and responded by...attacking me.
-pH
Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :
quote:Just for another example:
If you look in my OCD thread and find the part where I talk about my therapist calling me names and being mean to me, you'll also find at least one comment stating that what the person though I was REALLY upset about was "How DARE someone speak to me like that!"
That's really, REALLY hurtful. I mean, there I was talking about something that had upset me to no end because not only had someone picked on me, but my THERAPIST had picked on me....and it somehow is still interpreted from the "You're a snob" angle.
I just re-read that thread. What I saw was a girl (you) who was in a really bad time in your life. You shared lots of painful experiences and lots of hatrackers gathered around to support you.
I saw where you wanted to get the therapist in trouble for calling you names. I saw where hatrackers, with good intentions, talked about how your approach doing that might be ineffective. It might even validate the therapist's (who we agree was rude) assessment.
I did not see people gang up on you about money. You may feel that way. I can see where you are making those jumps, but I believe that they were jumps.
I certainly don't care you have money--it is a non-issue to me.
Do you always make it that hard for people to be supportive?
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
They're not being supportive when I've just had my feelings hurt and when I've just had my trust betrayed, and their response is "Oh, I think you're really just angry that someone would dare speak to you that way." That's not supportive in the least.
-pH
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
The people I listed on that list weren't like nfl though, they were people who made Hatrack LESS due to their presence.
I do understand what you meant though....I just wanted to be sure no one thought I missed the ones I listed.
pH, there is a difference between insensitivity and hate.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
And? If I have flat-out pointed out something that's hurting me and asked people not to do it and they go ahead and keep doing it, then they're pretty much actively trying to hurt me, whether or not they're motivated by insensitivity. Especially when what I'm asking is something fairly simple.
-pH
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
pH, YOU are the one who keeps posting things, very personal thing, here at Hatrack. I am not saying don't, but if you ask for advice then sometimes you might hear things that you don't want to hear.
Notice that I am not one of the people commenting in those threads you have issues with. I don't touch them for a lot of reasons.....at least in part because you have said that you are often paranoid and obsessive about things. I understand that you have issues, don't we all....but I am always afraid that something I say in those types of thread will be taken wrong, and leave me on the defensive, even if I didn't mean to offend.
But I have read a lot of your threads, and a lot of the dog pile you claim is happening seems to be people telling you their opinions, even if you don't want to hear them.
By posting your issues here at Hatrack, what you are doing, intentionally or not, is inviting comments and opinions.
Perhaps some comments went too far, but you can't force people to be sorry, and complaining about how they aren't is counterproductive. Of they don't know what they are talking about, and none of their points have any validity, why are you so upset by it? They don't know you, or your situation, so they are wrong.
End of story.
Posted by Libbie (Member # 9529) on :
quote:Originally posted by pH: Do you see me pointing that out every single time you post something? No. There is the difference. Whenever I post something that someone disagrees with, they always bring up money, which is a crock.
That directly implies that *I* bring up your wealth every time you post something. Link me to ANYWHERE where I have done so, Pearce. If you can't link me to such a thread, then please stop accusing me of persecuting you for your wealth, because that's obviously a lie.
quote:I was attacked in the ORIGINAL THREAD which is why I deleted it. I don't know how many more times I can say that.
NO YOU WERE NOT, and I don't know how many more times I can say that, nor how many more times you're going to incorrectly insist that we all dogpiled you. You invited us to participate by sharing our thoughts on the subject of spoiled rich kids. We did. You didn't like them, so you declared that we were attacking you, even though exactly NONE of the posts specified that YOU were one of the evil, spoiled rich kids. Then you deleted the thread.
I've seen you declare that Hatrack is "full of a$$holes" and similarly insulting, blanket statements directed toward the forum as a whole. Why do you expect special consideration of your feelings when you won't provide the same courtesy to the other forum users here? How unfair.
quote: And considering that the purpose of the original thread was to pretty much say, "I've seen a lot of these kinds of comments here, and whether or not you guys mean them towards me, they really hurt my feelings," I fail to see where there was any room to disagree.
That's not how I remember it. I remember you stating that you were sick of getting that vibe from people, and that you didn't understand why people even thought that way in the first place. So, many of us offered anecdotal examples suggesting how we or other people may have come up with those opinions, to which you took personal offense as if they were stating that you specifically had done these things. Of course, there's no way to know who is remembering things correctly now.
quote:Because if I just let it go, it will keep happening. And keep happening. And keep happening.
No, it will not. It's not happening now! Good God! WHERE ELSE has it happened? I don't know about other areas of your life, but it hasn't happened here, at least as far as I can tell. Unless I'm just totally missing entire huge threads of you being trampled all over because you're well-off. I sort of doubt that much material is slipping by me, considering I read Hatrack every single day.
quote:Why shouldn't I dwell on it?
Because it's making you react badly to every single comment you read, apparently, and it's making you carry a grudge against people who are TRYING to be your friends.
quote: Did anyone offer an apology? No. Why should I forgive people who don't even care that they're hurting me?
How many times do I have to say it?
Yes, poeple did apologize. I apologized, and I remember other people apologizing, too. You continue to insist that nobody did, but that is simply untrue. Stop insulting me and others by INSISTING that we never apologized to you when we DID.
quote: That's why I think it's ridiculous to say that there's no attack intended, since I tried to point out from the beginning that certain things hurt my feelings because they felt like attacks. The board as a whole was informed and responded by...attacking me.
*Sigh*
This is infuriating.
I know when I'm beating my head against a wall, and I refuse to do it. There is no reasoning with you. You only want to see things YOUR way, but you expect nobody else to see things THEIR way, even when the majority of people here agree that what actually happened is contrary to what you think happened. Fine. I don't care. I don't care if you think I did attack you or if you think I am attacking you now. I don't care if you think I'm a horrible, evil person who's out to get you. I don't care if you believe that every word I type is some kind of weird insult directed at your social station. I don't care.
However, I am never going to participate in any thread in which you are taking a major part again, because I am thoroughly disgusted by the fact that you can't let a single past incident go, and that you continue to insist that Hatrack is "full of a$$holes." This is a forum full of caring, generous people who have given up their valuable time to hear your thoughts, share your happiness, discuss ideas that are important to you, and give you comfort and a shoulder to cry on when you've needed it - just because they care about you. You, Pearce, as a person.
You repay all these people by continuing to insist that we're out to get you and insisting that you never received any apologies when your feelings were hurt. You call us names and insinuate that we all hate you.
What a waste of time.
It's a shame that avoiding your threads means I'll have less room to participate here, but I will not interact with a person who insults me and the people I consider friends. Of course, now that I've stuck my neck out and said what I feel about this whole fiasco, I'll probably be kicked off the forum or at least completely ostracized, since just about everybody here is a big Pearce fan in spite of your insistence that the entire forum hates you and that we're all a$$holes.
If anybody wants to yell at me for standing up to Pearce, you are most welcome to email me so that we don't have a giant flamewar on the forums. I won't yell back, but I realize that a lot of you dearly love Pearce and that I probably ticked you off by saying this, so if you want to talk to me about it, you are welcome to write. mistrettaphoto at gmail.com
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:Of course, now that I've stuck my neck out and said what I feel about this whole fiasco, I'll probably be kicked off the forum or at least completely ostracized...
We're also all contrarians. As you may have noticed, the best way to ensure that something never happens here is to predict it aloud.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Except that by predicting we're not going to do it, you've created an irreconcilable paradox that's going to suck us all into a singularity and spit us out in an alternate universe.
Way to go, Tom.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
The Tom and Dags show, at it again. Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote: Way to go, Tom.
Hey, don't thank me. You're the one who just saved the universe by predicting its destruction on Hatrack.
Oh, wait...
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
>_< Noooo! Stop the madness!
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
quote:NO YOU WERE NOT, and I don't know how many more times I can say that, nor how many more times you're going to incorrectly insist that we all dogpiled you. You invited us to participate by sharing our thoughts on the subject of spoiled rich kids.
That is NOT what I did. What I did was to try to point out that some of the things that were being said here were hurting my feelings and that I'd really appreciate it if people could be more considerate. That is what I said. This has nothing to do with me wanting to only see things my way. This has to do with me wanting people to accept the fact that some of the things they say hurt my feelings and to be considerate enough to pay attention when I ask them not to do it. Do you want to argue that the things that were said DIDN'T hurt my feelings?
-pH
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:This has to do with me wanting people to accept the fact that some of the things they say hurt my feelings and to be considerate enough to pay attention when I ask them not to do it.
Pearce, I think you may be confusing consideration with obedience a little bit.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
quote:Do you see me pointing that out every single time you post something? No. There is the difference. Whenever I post something that someone disagrees with, they always bring up money, which is a crock.
Well, that's just not true. You wouldn't say that if you were poor.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:This has to do with me wanting people to accept the fact that some of the things they say hurt my feelings and to be considerate enough to pay attention when I ask them not to do it.
Pearce, I think you may be confusing consideration with obedience a little bit.
No. I'm not. Because if something is really hurting me and is relatively easy to fix, it's inconsiderate to not make an effort to fix it. But considering that I tried to phrase the original post as a request and was subsequently jumped all over, I really don't know what I can do to convince anyone otherwise.
-pH
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:Because if something is really hurting me and is relatively easy to fix, it's inconsiderate to not make an effort to fix it.
But when the request is aimed at people's expression of opinion, and doesn't seem to leave any room for expression of that opinion even when not directed at you, it's not easy to fix.
Posted by Libbie (Member # 9529) on :
quote:Originally posted by pH: Do you want to argue that the things that were said DIDN'T hurt my feelings?
-pH
No; I don't want to talk to you about anything ever again - at least not here. You're unreasonable and unpredictable. I don't like that, so I'm choosing to have no further interaction with you on these forums, aside from this thread, because it is about our forum conflicts. If you feel the need to discuss anything with me, I posted my email address in this thread and you are as welcome to discuss this matter OFF the forums with me as is everybody else.
Thanks for completely disregarding all the rest of the points I made. I suppose in that respect, you are not unpredictable.
Bye now.
[ November 27, 2006, 12:50 AM: Message edited by: Libbie ]
Posted by Stan the man (Member # 6249) on :
Pearce, breathe in, breathe out. An' I am going to agree with Pearce on that it was quite an attack on her on the one topic. The one that was locked for a bit by Pop's anyway. Question: Is it polite, in that if someone were to request that the word "god" not be said in their presence (in vain), to say it? Don't try telling me I am mixing apples with oranges here. I'm not. I'm using something some of you would probably have a moral standing on. If you knew that person didn't like that. Would you use it in their presence? Would that not be inconsiderate?
I've studied world war 2 since I was old enough to read. The word I get all riled up on is Nazi. People have a tendancy to call me that because of my studies. Am I wrong to get upset? I don't think so. Maybe you might think me wrong if I get a little more than just upset about it, but guaranteed, they don't call me that anymore.
So tell me how you want to construe this considerate vs. obediance. Give me a good one, please. Something that can compete with what my supervisor at work can construe out of his one brain cell every morning at muster.
Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
I don't hate anyone on Hatrack... It's not happening here for me, well, unless someone hates me... Which is pretty unlikely... Since I don't know anyone... Unless they hate me for how I post... In which case that's silly... So, yeah, no Hatrack hate for me...
Posted by Libbie (Member # 9529) on :
quote:Originally posted by Stan the man: Pearce, breathe in, breathe out. An' I am going to agree with Pearce on that it was quite an attack on her on the one topic. The one that was locked for a bit by Pop's anyway. Question: Is it polite, in that if someone were to request that the word "god" not be said in their presence (in vain), to say it? Don't try telling me I am mixing apples with oranges here. I'm not. I'm using something some of you would probably have a moral standing on. If you knew that person didn't like that. Would you use it in their presence? Would that not be inconsiderate?
I think it is a bit apples-to-oranges, since Pearce was not actually being called any names or being accused herself of being an intolerably spoiled rich kid. She was called out on expressing some opinions that others too offense to, but so was everybody else in that thread.
Expressing an opinion is not the same as using offensive language. We should be free to express our opinions about any topic without somebody telling us months later that we can't talk about how we feel about Topic X because it makes her feel sad. If she doesn't want to feel badly about things we want to discuss, then she doesn't need to read the thread.
quote: People have a tendancy to call me that because of my studies. Am I wrong to get upset? I don't think so.
Of course not, but you're making the implication that Pearce was actually called spoiled and ungrateful in the original thread. She never was - not once. Unless you count the moment when she said that she never dates guys who don't come from wealthy families because she thinks they're all going to expect her to give them money, and somebody (I don't remember who) told her that she was demonstrating the same kind of prejudice that she disliked in other people by holding that view. I guess that MIGHT be construed as her being called "spoiled," if you really stretch your imagination.
In fact, many people, myself included, expressed the opinion that Pearce did not appear to be the kind of atrocious rich kid who acts ungrateful and spoiled, but instead a serious student and a hard worker who really felt grateful that she had this great opportunity.
But, like I already said, the thread is gone forever, so we can't go back and look to see what actually happened. Pearce has her recollection; I have mine.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
quote:Unless you count the moment when she said that she never dates guys who don't come from wealthy families because she thinks they're all going to expect her to give them money
I never used the word "wealthy" when I was talking about that.
-pH
Posted by Libbie (Member # 9529) on :
I believe your exact words, if memory serves, were "I don't date guys who don't have money."
Edited to add: By the way, I really don't care who you date and for what reasons. I don't give two figs about your love life or your reasons for running it the way you do. I am just pointing out the one part of that thread (that I recall) which I can understand your feeling insulted over.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
quote:Originally posted by Libbie: I believe your exact words, if memory serves, were "I don't date guys who don't have money."
No. That is not what I said at all. I said that I have trouble dating guys who have less money because they seem to assume that they are entitled to ask me to pay for their things. That has nothing to do with family, and it was included in my mentioning that I find it incredibly frustrating that my "friends" seemed to think that I should be their taxi and thought it was okay to expect me to pay for everything. In fact, I followed up with the example of an ex-boyfriend who came from a very wealthy family who regularly had me go pay his electric bill because his electricity kept being turned off. My whole point was that (going back to what I had originally said, that it bothered me that people seem to think that all college kids who have things have huge entitlement complexes) most of the entitlement complexes I run into in my life are from people who think that they're "real" and grew up "hard."
-pH
Posted by ladyday (Member # 1069) on :
I don't think it's right to talk -about- someone on the boards when you refuse to talk -to- them on the boards. Isn't that at least part of the problem with GS's treatment of Bob, too? If you want to write someone off, write them off, but continuing to talk about them to other people seems wrong to me.
Edit - lol, nevermind I suppose I misunderstood the 'I never want to speak to you again' remark.
Posted by Libbie (Member # 9529) on :
Hm - well, I guess I can't go back and see whether I'm remembering it correctly or not, so why worry?
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
quote:Originally posted by cmc: I don't hate anyone on Hatrack... It's not happening here for me, well, unless someone hates me... Which is pretty unlikely... Since I don't know anyone... Unless they hate me for how I post... In which case that's silly... So, yeah, no Hatrack hate for me...
I hate you with the passion of a thousand Sith lords.
quote:Originally posted by ladyday: I don't think it's right to talk -about- someone on the boards when you refuse to talk -to- them on the boards. Isn't that at least part of the problem with GS's treatment of Bob, too? If you want to write someone off, write them off, but continuing to talk about them to other people seems wrong to me.
Didn't I say that I'd only talk to her in this thread, and not in any others (and also in email)? That was what I intended to say, since this thread is about personal conflicts, and all.
If I didn't say that, I'll edit it into my post, because I intended it to be there in the first place. Thank you for pointing that out to me.
Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
Karma's a doozie... ; )
I was upset I didn't see my name and personal information come up...
Posted by ladyday (Member # 1069) on :
quote:No; I don't want to talk to you about anything ever again - at least not here. You're unreasonable and unpredictable. I don't like that, so I'm choosing to have no further interaction with you on these forums. If you feel the need to discuss anything with me, I posted my email address in this thread and you are as welcome to discuss this matter OFF the forums with me as is everybody else.
That's what gave me the impression you were no longer willing to speak to pH on the boards.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I think the problem with the original thread were the parameters that Pearce imposed, they were almost designed to either induce silence or agreement.
If we didn't agree with you, it was percieved as an attack. If we disagreed, so as to say "it's been my experience that....not including you Pearce," then you STILL took offense, and told us that such blanket statements that specifically unincluded you would still offend you as if the special provision had never been made. So, we could either agree with you, or be silent, or offend you.
That's not really conducive to free thought and expression, especially not in a thread that one would think discussion would be open and welcome. Especially since if I were to say "I don't date girls who have money, they're stuck up and only want to date other rich people," you'd take vast offense I think, but you're for some reason allowed to make blanket statements about guys without money.
It's your special exceptions and discussion rules that bothered me in that thread. If you aren't willing to hear an opposing opinion or have questions asked of you regarding your position, you shouldn't ask the question to begin with. That's just how I feel.
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
quote:Originally posted by pH:
quote:Originally posted by Libbie: I believe your exact words, if memory serves, were "I don't date guys who don't have money."
No. That is not what I said at all. I said that I have trouble dating guys who have less money because they seem to assume that they are entitled to ask me to pay for their things. That has nothing to do with family, and it was included in my mentioning that I find it incredibly frustrating that my "friends" seemed to think that I should be their taxi and thought it was okay to expect me to pay for everything. In fact, I followed up with the example of an ex-boyfriend who came from a very wealthy family who regularly had me go pay his electric bill because his electricity kept being turned off. My whole point was that (going back to what I had originally said, that it bothered me that people seem to think that all college kids who have things have huge entitlement complexes) most of the entitlement complexes I run into in my life are from people who think that they're "real" and grew up "hard."
-pH
I know someone who is incredibly wealthy, I'm sure she is probably wealthier than you, but anyway. The point is that I hated going anywhere with her because she always offered to pay for everything and that made me feel like she was trying to show off her money. In fact, she liked to talk about all the things she did back in Colorado like riding the Budwiser horses, how she paid her tuition up front and how she had a private air plane. She was such a snob.
I don't mind if you're rich, just don't flaunt it.
Not that I think you are anything like her Pearce. But I am a little weirded out that you would use money as a basis for choosing who to date. Not all poor people covet your money, you know. However, I think that Michael is a good match and you should stick with him. Besides, we both know you made all your money pimping me out in the streets of New Orleans.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
My question is, how could it be at all productive to discuss anything with you by email if you're absolutely dead-set in the idea that you've done no wrong and I am apparently unreasonable? Most of your posts on this thread have been pretty mean-spirited. I'm not that masochistic.
And on top of that, again, you missed the entire point of the thread. The point of that particular post was for me to make a request. There WAS no question beyond "Will you guys please be more considerate?" That was the question.
-pH
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
quote:Besides, we both know you made all your money pimping me out in the streets of New Orleans.
Ho, gimme my money!
-pH
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
quote:Originally posted by pH:
quote:Besides, we both know you made all your money pimping me out in the streets of New Orleans.
Ho, gimme my money!
-pH
Sorry daddy, I've not been working this week! I'm still recovering from the crabs. It itches so bad!
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
*raises pimp cane*
-pH
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
quote:Originally posted by pH: *raises pimp cane*
-pH
I know Daddy Pearce loves me because she only hits me with her hand open, never with a fist. <3
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:And on top of that, again, you missed the entire point of the thread. The point of that particular post was for me to make a request. There WAS no question beyond "Will you guys please be more considerate?" That was the question.
Doesn't this assume that: A. People can control threads and B. That there were no pre-existing circumstances?
We all know we can't control a thread, and you pissed off a LOT of people when you killed the thread that wasn't going your way. Starting up a new thread RIGHT AFTER killing one that people put quite a bit of time into.
I think given your mindset and the situation, you were screwed the minute you started the FIRST thread. Killing that and starting a second one just sealed the deal.
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
Why can't we just drop the subject before it gets any bigger?
Edit: Seriously, it's annoying. I know what you're going to say, "Well, if you don't like it, go to some other thread." To answer that, because it pisses me off that people just can't learn to handle these situations without letting them get too big for anyone. Look, what Pearce did was wrong, but it doesn't matter anymore. I understand that the words you guys put there were valuable to you but why can't you guys just learn to let go of that? If Pearce didn't like what you said, big deal, but at least remember that you at least tried to help. I suggest we drop the subject before more emnities are made.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
If I thought dropping it now would mean it'll never come up again...
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: If I thought dropping it now would mean it'll never come up again...
Well, it takes two to tango. If she bring it up again, you have the option of ignoring it.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:"Well, if you don't like it, go to some other thread."
Apparently you don't, because that's not even close to what I was going to say, though it looks strikingly close to:
quote: If she bring it up again, you have the option of ignoring it
Take your own advice?
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
quote:"Well, if you don't like it, go to some other thread."
Apparently you don't, because that's not even close to what I was going to say, though it looks strikingly close to:
quote: If she bring it up again, you have the option of ignoring it
Take your own advice?
Don't even go there. I'm trying to rally for both sides here and you are attacking me because of it?
Posted by JenniK (Member # 3939) on :
pH, it seemed to me, as someone who didn't participate in the thread in question at all, that she is angry at having her position miscategorized by you....not mean spirited.
And she isn't the only one who disagrees with you on what was said, and how it was said.
This is one of the disadvantages of deleting thread, as there is nothing to help clarify your position about the conversation in question.
How is it OK for YOU to use your personal experiences in making blanket statements about non-wealthy people, but when others do the same regarding wealthier people is is a personal attack on you?
Pot, meet the kettle.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
quote:Pot, meet the kettle.
Funny, this expression has been used a lot this week. I don't recall seeing it before.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
quote:Originally posted by JenniK: How is it OK for YOU to use your personal experiences in making blanket statements about non-wealthy people, but when others do the same regarding wealthier people is is a personal attack on you?
I didn't do that. This is what's so frustrating for me. You guys aren't reading what I'm actually saying. What I was TRYING to say was that things were being said that were hurting my feelings, and believe it or not, I do have feelings and they do get hurt. And instead of taking that at face value you have to try to poke holes in what I'm saying. All I was trying to say was that my feelings were being hurt, both here and in real life, and I'd appreciate it if at least here that kind of thing could be avoided.
-pH
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion:
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
quote:"Well, if you don't like it, go to some other thread."
Apparently you don't, because that's not even close to what I was going to say, though it looks strikingly close to:
quote: If she bring it up again, you have the option of ignoring it
Take your own advice?
Don't even go there. I'm trying to rally for both sides here and you are attacking me because of it?
No, I just don't like you making assumptions and then hypocritically trying to shush me. Maybe if this conversation is exhausted beyond all possible belief, it will make it completely unnecessary, and rather unfavorable, to ever bring up again.
Kind of like when an angry father catches his kid smoking and locks him in the closet until he finishes the pack.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by King of Men:
quote:Pot, meet the kettle.
Funny, this expression has been used a lot this week. I don't recall seeing it before.
quote:Originally posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion:
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
quote:"Well, if you don't like it, go to some other thread."
Apparently you don't, because that's not even close to what I was going to say, though it looks strikingly close to:
quote: If she bring it up again, you have the option of ignoring it
Take your own advice?
Don't even go there. I'm trying to rally for both sides here and you are attacking me because of it?
No, I just don't like you making assumptions and then hypocritically trying to shush me. Maybe if this conversation is exhausted beyond all possible belief, it will make it completely unnecessary, and rather unfavorable, to ever bring up again.
Kind of like when an angry father catches his kid smoking and locks him in the closet until he finishes the pack.
I made a general assumption that was not particularly directed at you, you're not that special, love. The whole point of me posting that in the first place, was because I'm tired of watching people bicker at each other over something that is just not worth it. GET OVER YOURSELVES.
Posted by Fyfe (Member # 937) on :
pH, I really am genuinely sorry that you've been hurt.
That said, I think you need to let this one go for the time being, since nothing can be satisfactorily proven about whether or not you're being picked on. Maybe just post in fluffy threads for a while until you're feeling better about the community? If you feel you are being picked on in the future, take it up with the specific members who speak to you.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Pearce- I've sometimes noticed a quality in our conversations that is you saying: "I am annoyed right now, don't mess with me.." and my immediate, uncontrollable reaction is to immediately mess with you. I'm sorry if you're ticked with me personally, but that's just something I never think about much. If someone I know talks to me, light-hearted abuse is what they are going to get, but to most people it doesn't really feel that way.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Y'all farcically bypassing the potential life-lessons that Rotar Mode had pre-packaged in this very thread.
Be more marvy. Posted by Libbie (Member # 9529) on :
quote:Originally posted by pH: My question is, how could it be at all productive to discuss anything with you by email if you're absolutely dead-set in the idea that you've done no wrong and I am apparently unreasonable? Most of your posts on this thread have been pretty mean-spirited. I'm not that masochistic.
And on top of that, again, you missed the entire point of the thread. The point of that particular post was for me to make a request. There WAS no question beyond "Will you guys please be more considerate?" That was the question.
-pH
I am deadset on my not having done anything wrong for one simple reason: because I haven't done anything wrong.
I never said you had to email me, obviously. I said you could if you wanted to. Because aside from threads such as this one where the topic is forum dissension, I am not going to have any interaction with you. I've already probably guaranteed myself some nice, juicy pariah status by standing up to you, despire what Tom says.
Posted by Libbie (Member # 9529) on :
quote:Originally posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion: Look, what Pearce did was wrong, but it doesn't matter anymore. I understand that the words you guys put there were valuable to you but why can't you guys just learn to let go of that? If Pearce didn't like what you said, big deal, but at least remember that you at least tried to help.
You're right, but unfortunately, Pearce is the one who continues to bring this topic up months after the fact. For proof, look at her first post in this thread, which is what angered me, and her posts calling the entire forum names in the other thread she linked here. It would be lovely if we could let this go, but alas, it always seems to come up anyway, and not from me or Lyrhawn or anybody else. I got sick of the demand that we continue to answer for Pearce's hurt feelings, months later.
In the spirit of letting it go, though, this will be my last post in this thread.
Thanks.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Rather than fighting in a thread online, shouldn't the ladies be pillow fighting in skimpy lingerie in real life?
More love, less hate, please.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
pH....first off, that wasn't JenniK speaking up there. It was me. JenniK is my wife, and she forgot to log off last time she posted, and I didn't catch it.
So now, because I pointed out something you posted, I am attacking you?
DISAGREEING WITH YOU ISN'T THE SAME AS ATTACKING YOU!
" My whole point was that (going back to what I had originally said, that it bothered me that people seem to think that all college kids who have things have huge entitlement complexes) most of the entitlement complexes I run into in my life are from people who think that they're "real" and grew up "hard." " .
You objected to a huge generalization with one of your own, right there.
I am not trying to pick on you pH, but trying to show you that you are quite oversensitive at times. People may at times say things that you assume were directed at you that really weren't, and your feelings get hurt.
People disagree with each other all the time, but you seem to take it very personal. You also bring it up on a regular basis. For all your complaints about pig piling, I haven't seen a single person other than yourself bring any of this crap up in the past month or two.
I have no agenda here, no problem with you so far, and no ax to grind. I was not involved in the previous discussions, because I knew that no matter what I said it could be taken the wrong way.
I think you are a nice person, but if you really want this type of stuff to stop, I would do two things. Stop posting very personal stuff in public unless you want a discussion of it, and stop bringing up past discussions that offended you when others have already let it drop.
Or you could ignore my suggestions, lump me in with all the "mean" people who pick on you, and continue to play the martyr.
It's your call.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Damn it, I opened this thread looking for pictures of cute kittens, but . . . nothing! >_<
-o-
Oh, and, you don't have to be rich to be spoiled.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Nope....,my wife is poor (married to me she'd have to be), and I spoil her every day. Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
quote:No. I'm not. Because if something is really hurting me and is relatively easy to fix, it's inconsiderate to not make an effort to fix it.
Not when you're ginormously oversensitive, and therefore hurt by damn near every post on certain topics, no matter how carefully they're phrased. My brother's the same way, and I decided a long time ago that I'm not going to change my behavior and spend the rest of my life walking on eggshells around him, just to prevent him from overreacting and having a meltdown. I will continue to treat him the same way I treat the rest of my friends and family, and until he learns that everything is not about him and drops his persecution complex we'll just continue to fight a lot.
You want everyone to cater to your whims, and then you get indignant when they refuse. Also, what msquared said.
I'm sure you want to put me in the "Pearce-bashing" camp, and I can't see any way to be honest with you without getting stuck with that designation, so that is what it is. But I don't hate you -- I like you. I want life to get easier for you. All I can offer is my honest assessment; you can believe it or not. But know this: for every post I've made like this about your behavior and your reactions to the behavior of others, I've probably swallowed five or more beforehand.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion:
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
quote:Originally posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion:
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
quote:"Well, if you don't like it, go to some other thread."
Apparently you don't, because that's not even close to what I was going to say, though it looks strikingly close to:
quote: If she bring it up again, you have the option of ignoring it
Take your own advice?
Don't even go there. I'm trying to rally for both sides here and you are attacking me because of it?
No, I just don't like you making assumptions and then hypocritically trying to shush me. Maybe if this conversation is exhausted beyond all possible belief, it will make it completely unnecessary, and rather unfavorable, to ever bring up again.
Kind of like when an angry father catches his kid smoking and locks him in the closet until he finishes the pack.
I made a general assumption that was not particularly directed at you, you're not that special, love. The whole point of me posting that in the first place, was because I'm tired of watching people bicker at each other over something that is just not worth it. GET OVER YOURSELVES.
Sure.
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
Libbie, I'm more lurker than poster here lately, but I just wanted to register my support. You're making a lot of sense. You won't get any flack from me for it. Some things just need to be said. -Katarain
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
quote:Originally posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion:
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
quote:Originally posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion:
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
quote:"Well, if you don't like it, go to some other thread."
Apparently you don't, because that's not even close to what I was going to say, though it looks strikingly close to:
quote: If she bring it up again, you have the option of ignoring it
Take your own advice?
Don't even go there. I'm trying to rally for both sides here and you are attacking me because of it?
No, I just don't like you making assumptions and then hypocritically trying to shush me. Maybe if this conversation is exhausted beyond all possible belief, it will make it completely unnecessary, and rather unfavorable, to ever bring up again.
Kind of like when an angry father catches his kid smoking and locks him in the closet until he finishes the pack.
I made a general assumption that was not particularly directed at you, you're not that special, love. The whole point of me posting that in the first place, was because I'm tired of watching people bicker at each other over something that is just not worth it. GET OVER YOURSELVES.
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