...Why? Most of the reviews I read about the movie are negative, a lot of Star Trek fans didn't like it, and it flopped.
Which is why I don't understand why it's one of my favorite Star Trek movies, along with all the other even-numbered ones. Generations was okay and Insurrection was dull. I enjoyed the Search for Spock enough, too. But Nemesis is in my top 3 favorite ST movies, along with Undiscovered Country and First Contact.
I know Nemesis was a rehash of the Wrath of Khan, but since that was such a great show, that can't be too bad of a thing. I think Nemesis is underrated.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
***SPOILERS***
There is the transparent way they kill off Data while conveniently leaving a way for Brent Spiner to come back. (Not that I mind, I've alwasy lusted after him) But as a plot device, it was stupid.
[ November 30, 2006, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: romanylass ]
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
***SPOILERS***
Isn't that the one that had Data singing at a lame wedding? I can't even remember who got married.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
First Contact was the only TNG movie for me.
edit: I believe the wedding was commander Riker and Deanna Troi.
Posted by striplingrz (Member # 9770) on :
I love all the Next Generation movies. I wish they'd hurry up and do more.
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
I've never had the guts to actually watch this movie. I just don't want to see Data die (even if it is a semi fake-out).
*is a wimp*
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
I thought the bad guy was evil-hot.
-pH
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote: I believe the wedding was commander Riker and Deanna Troi.
Lame.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
If Picard and the bad guy both went to high school I am pretty sure the bad guy would have more dates.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
I always wanted to see Troi and Worf stay together.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
I always wanted to see Troi and Bev Crusher together.
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
I had mixed feelings about Nemesis, but Generations was dreadful.
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
I enjoyed Nemesis. Insurrection was my favorite of the Next Gen movies though. Of course I feel rather alone in that sentiment.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tante Shvester: I always wanted to see Troi and Bev Crusher together.
You learn something new about Tante Shvester every day.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Tante, sweetie... Is there something you want to tell us?
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Stephan: I enjoyed Nemesis. Insurrection was my favorite of the Next Gen movies though. Of course I feel rather alone in that sentiment.
As you should be! Every other person who liked that movie seems to have disappeared some have spotted small basketball shaped flying robots hovering next to people before they inexplicably disappear.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
I just think that Riker isn't a good match for Troi, and neither is Worf. Of the rest of the crew, Bev Crusher seems the most sympatico.
Posted by Marlozhan (Member # 2422) on :
quote:Originally posted by romanylass: ***SPOILERS***
There is the transparent way they kill off Data while conveniently leaving a way for Brent Spiner to come back. (Not that I mind, I've alwasy lusted after him) But as a plot device, it was stupid.
Yes, leaving an out for Data to live was a bit lame, though I doubt they will bring him back to play Data again given his skin just sags way too much. But then again, we are talking about Star Trek...
But this wasn't enough to dampen the entire movie much for me.
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:Originally posted by Stephan: I enjoyed Nemesis. Insurrection was my favorite of the Next Gen movies though. Of course I feel rather alone in that sentiment.
As you should be! Every other person who liked that movie seems to have disappeared some have spotted small basketball shaped flying robots hovering next to people before they inexplicably disappear.
Heh,
It just seemed the most original of the Next Gen films. Vengeance, time travel, and borg themes have just been over played a little in my opinion.
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
quote:Originally posted by romanylass: I always wanted to see Troi and Worf stay together.
I could see that.
Posted by Zeugma (Member # 6636) on :
As far as I'm concerned, Generations is the only Star Trek movie worth watching. Heroic-Picard-bouldering, endless talking, Kirk dying.... what more could you ask for? Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
I was snickering too much at Picard's "Mini-Me" to take the movie seriously. Some nemesis! It just didn't work for me.
[ November 30, 2006, 05:16 PM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Primal Curve:
quote:Originally posted by romanylass: I always wanted to see Troi and Worf stay together.
Or until she dies, whichever comes first. Posted by unicornwhisperer (Member # 294) on :
quote:Originally posted by Stephan: I enjoyed Nemesis. Insurrection was my favorite of the Next Gen movies though. Of course I feel rather alone in that sentiment.
I enjoyed Insurrection, I thought I was alone on that too. Generations is my favorite (I think I'm alone on that one though). As for Nemesis the bad guy is cool but they just talk too much in the movie, have a battle at the end and thats it...
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Zeugma, I would rate Star Trek IV, The Journey Home (a.k.a. "Save the Whales,"), as my all-time favorite. And what about Star Trek XIII: First Contact? I like the time travel themes.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
quote: I always wanted to see Troi and Bev Crusher together.
Posted by Zeugma (Member # 6636) on :
Ooh Ron, you're right, I did like the one with the whales a lot. I never got into First Contact, though, the whole deal with the drunk inventor guy felt way too campy.
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
I just have one thing to say to this thread:
"KHAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNN!!!!!!"
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
No question the best Trek film.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I never "bought" Troi and Worf, but I did buy Jadzia and Worf.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Khan and First Contact in that order the rest range from Good to god awful.
But Khan and First Contact are WONDERFUL. (I, too, could do without Zephram Cochran though.)
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
I'm intrigued by the fact that, of all the men in the ST:TNG/DS9 crew, Worf is the one who ends up being the ladies' man and the one who hooked up with most other regulars.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Oh, And Troi should have ended up with Ro Laren.
Laren could have given Deanna some spice and Deanna could have smoothed our Laren's rough edges.
Riker should have ended up with Soren, the Genii chick.
Worf and Dax II.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
It's the ridges, Megan.
mph, I kind of bought it, but only if I stomped on my inner voice screaming "Imzadi!" really, really hard. Worf and Jadzia just worked, no inner-voice-stifling required.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Pixiest: Worf and Dax II.
You mean Ezri? She was entirely too cute and peppy for Worf.
Much better with Julian.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Ezri! How come I could remember Soren's name but not Ezri???
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Why can I remember the name of a fictitious character on a show I haven't watched in years, but not recall the name of the person I spent 30 minutes on the phone with on Tuesday?
Brains are weird.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
...
I remember fictional characters a lot more redily than real people all the time =(
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
It is true that I don't take most real people to bed. Once a week, every week, for weeks or months.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Rivka: That'd be itchy.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Ill be honest Pixiest/Rivka, I think I do not grasp what on earth you two are now talking about and I am going to just leave it alone.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Pixiest: Rivka: That'd be itchy.
BB is not the only one who's confused . . .
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
I was just thinking if you took that many people to bed.... Oh never mind.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
My mind must be in the gutter, but the whole senior staff of the Enterprise- whew!
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
I don't even recall Troi and Worf together. Huh.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I think it was just in the last season. Definitely shark jump worthy.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
About the Khan/nemesis connection, here's my issue with that: Khan makes Kirk ANGRY. REALLY REALLY PISSED. Picard seems to go through most of Nemesis in a sleepy haze- he's neither particularly invested, nor at all interested in his "nemesis." Plus the plot is STUPID AS HECK. Let's see... an evil picard clone wants to go to earth and kill everyone... OK. Never heard that one before! There were no interesting side-plots, and even the Data story with B4 was like something out of a lame episode of TNG. The whole thing was phoned in, predictable, dull and stupid. Now that I'm thinking a little more about it, the fact that they were trying to connect it with Kahn (especially with the death of Data as a sacrifice for Picard) is a little insulting. Brent Spiner probably doesn't want to keep working on Trek because he thinks it's idiotic.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
And don't think, writers, that we don't notice that Picard TRIES to sacrifice himself in EVERY SINGLE movie, only to be saved at the last second. This is pretty lame.
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
It is my understanding that Spiner was concerned with the fact that Data should not gain weight or show age. It was not idiotic it was just becoming irreconcilable with the character. As for phoning it in, I went to the theater to watch another movie and the first I saw of Nemesis was when I arrived and decided to watch it, no buzz, no trailers nothing. What was the studio thinking.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote: I think it was just in the last season.
Yes.
quote:Definitely shark jump worthy.
No.
Pix, the only one I mentioned was Ezri! Posted by Ecthalion (Member # 8825) on :
i happen to enjoy all the star trek movies in one for or another except for ST-V....
that being said im a firm believer that pretty much all that can be interestingly covered in ST universe has been covered.... sometimes two or three times....
The movies just arent as original, or even as interesting.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ecthalion: i happen to enjoy all the star trek movies in one for or another except for ST-V....
You seem to be confused. There was no STV. They skipped directly from STIV to STVI. Probably to avoid the Curse of the Odds.
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
Nemesis wasn't overtly bad. It was just mediocre in the extreme. The plot was a weak rehash of "Wrath of Khan," complete with noble lead character "death," but whereas Ricardo Montalban created one of the most memorable villains of all time, Picard's clone was just... dull. The character's motivations made no sense, and the actor had about the same range of emotion as the kid who played Anakin in Episode 1. Even the special effects were boring, aside from the ramming scene. The Enterprise takes on a couple of Warbirds? Ho-hum. Deep Space Nine had full on fleet actions five years earlier, and did it better to boot.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
What was wrong with Star Trek Generations? It's tied with First Contact for my favorite, but the one where they go back in time to get the whales is a favorite of mine too, I think that was IV? KHANNN!!! Is good too.
What's wrong with Riker and Troi getting married? I always bought them a heck of a lot more than Troi and Worf, to say nothing of the fact that Worf and Dax were made for each other. Troi and Riker were Imzadi, they were almost predestined from before Mission at Farpoint to get married someday, I'm just surprised it took as long as it did.
Nemesis was weak. It just didn't have any..pizazz...I don't know how to describe it. Data issues were ridiculous, and the Picard clone thing is way out of left field. And they didn't even TRY to explain why Worf was there. They had decent excuses for the previous two movies, well for First Contact anyway. This time it's just "Let's go find adventure! Oh, Mr. Worf, just in time! Take your station at tactical." Especially since now Worf is supposed to be on Qu'nos full time with Martok.
Besides, good as the special effects were, the battle was WEAK. One big warbird vs. the Enterprise? COME ON. Like Tarrsk said, we had full on fleet action in DS9, I want to see something HUGE, or don't bother showing anything at all.
For all the cool new shiny ships we keep seeing, the Prometheus, the new armor that Voyager brought back, I want to see a rocking battle against a Borg FLEET. No more individual cubes, let's rock their world.
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
I actually liked Generations quite a lot, too (though my favorite TNG film was "First Contact"). Kirk's death was cheesy, but as a big Patrick Stewart fan, I liked that Picard had a real emotional arc. And Soran was the most interesting of the TNG movie villains, even if his actual Evil Scheme had more plot holes than you could drive a starship through. Whoever the actor was, he played the part really well. And you want great effects sequences? The Enterprise-D crash still looks amazing.
"Wrath of Khan" is still tops, though. A brilliant movie from start to finish.
Posted by Marlozhan (Member # 2422) on :
I agree with most of everyone's criticisms regarding Nemesis. That's why I can't figure out why I still enjoy watching it so much. Usually I can explain why I do or don't like a movie, but this one escapes me. Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
The Worf thing in Nemesis was totally wack. I mean, the thing is they could have EASILY made that a cool part of the plot! The Romulan senate murdered, Vorcha class cruiser decloaks to reveal ambassador Worf in command. It could have added a little extra to the story the way that Captain Sulu did in Star Trek VI.
But no, they go, predictably, for disappointing the fans as usual. This is something I don't think Star Trek producers understand: ST fans have savant brains: we remember the most basic details and expect them to be adhered to. In this case it's a HUGE piece of information that's missing from the scenario, and instead of plausably explain it (easy to do!) and make it part of the story, they just ignore it, like most interesting side plots in ST. That's why it's a phone-in.
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
I just loved how Worf took over in Insurrection. Can you imagine being an officer in the military, and having your commanding officer basically say your off duty for a few days because the guy that used to have your post (albeit on a different ship with the same name) is back for a visit?
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Would you argue with a Klingon who wanted your seat?
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I'd totally kick his butt.
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
quote:Originally posted by mackillian: Would you argue with a Klingon who wanted your seat?
If it was Worf, sure. He got his butt kicked in every other episode of TNG anyway.
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
There may be a higher proportion of smart ST fans, but I've met my fair share of mouth breathers in my time.
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
quote:I enjoyed Nemesis. Insurrection was my favorite of the Next Gen movies though. Of course I feel rather alone in that sentiment.
I'm adding myself to the ranks. Insurrection is my favorite and has been since the moment I saw it. I really like the way Frakes directed it...and yes. It's a bit more girly. Great scenery, great music, fantastic romantic subplot, fountain of youth scenario -- What's not to love?
That said, I think I do stand alone in the "I didn't really like First Contact" camp. I thought the sudden appearance of a Borg Queen (when they're all supposed to have NO identity whatsoever) was ridiculous. And it was too dark. No butterflies or pretty flowers. Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
quote:Originally posted by Marlozhan: ...Why? Most of the reviews I read about the movie are negative, a lot of Star Trek fans didn't like it, and it flopped.
Which is why I don't understand why it's one of my favorite Star Trek movies, along with all the other even-numbered ones. Generations was okay and Insurrection was dull. I enjoyed the Search for Spock enough, too. But Nemesis is in my top 3 favorite ST movies, along with Undiscovered Country and First Contact.
I know Nemesis was a rehash of the Wrath of Khan, but since that was such a great show, that can't be too bad of a thing. I think Nemesis is underrated.
I liked it. I honestly think it is one of the better movies because of the effects with the ships and the new romulan ship is awesome looking. There are some bad things about it but that's just about every movie out there. So all in all I give it a thumbs up.
I think Khan is the best though!
Posted by Will B (Member # 7931) on :
I didn't like it because I didn't see why Mr. Villain being a clone of Picard was relevant to the story. I thought the way they killed Data was contrived, and the way they opted to bring him back didn't make sense (if he's partly damaged, why would his damage remind us of human mental retardation, rather than computer damage -- as in Insurrection?). I couldn't believe that an oppressed minority (Remans) would somehow possess the power to destroy the Federation, without ever having tested it on their actual oppressors.
Posted by Bekenn (Member # 6602) on :
Why is it that nobody's mentioned the dune buggy yet? I'd have thought that would be among the very first things to make people cringe about this movie.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
I didn't like Nemesis on account of things which are best described with words like:
- lethargic - clunky - hackneyed - poorly written - didn't work - tried to kill the franchise
A shame, really -- it was a flagrant abuse of the one element of Star Trek which is intriguing enough to have plenty of life left in it: the intricacies of an emerging Romulan empire.
Posted by Will B (Member # 7931) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bekenn: Why is it that nobody's mentioned the dune buggy yet? I'd have thought that would be among the very first things to make people cringe about this movie.
I blocked it out.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
ST has this way of being absolutely Cringe-Inducing, whenever it tries to be "cool."
And yah, Samp, you're absolutely right- the Romulans were the only cool, dark, unknowable element in St that went all the way back to TOS, and they totally crapped all over that part of the story.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I LOVED the dune buggy.
I thought it was hysterical.
Posted by stihl1 (Member # 1562) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tarrsk: Nemesis wasn't overtly bad. It was just mediocre in the extreme. The plot was a weak rehash of "Wrath of Khan," complete with noble lead character "death," but whereas Ricardo Montalban created one of the most memorable villains of all time, Picard's clone was just... dull. The character's motivations made no sense, and the actor had about the same range of emotion as the kid who played Anakin in Episode 1. Even the special effects were boring, aside from the ramming scene. The Enterprise takes on a couple of Warbirds? Ho-hum. Deep Space Nine had full on fleet actions five years earlier, and did it better to boot.
I absolutely agree. It wasn't a horrible movie, it just wasn't good. Bland, boring, and not exciting. The powers that be at Star Trek seem to be convinced that they always have to make another STIV where everyone comes to see the movie. If they just made a great Star Trek movie, people would come to see it. They waste too much trying to appeal to everyone and to do everything.
As far as the Next Gen movies are concerned, First Contact was the best. Generations would have been better without the Christmas scene. Insurrection was just DUMB. When Riker pilots the ship with the joy stick, I wanted to puke. That movie was worse than STV. Ugh.
Nemesis pretty much killed my obssession with Star Trek. It officially signaled the end of good writing in the Trek universe and I have given up. I am absolutely NOT looking foward to this farce of a movie coming up where they recast the original series and try to replace Kirk and Spock. What a laugh.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Unless they can get Peter Jackson to direct it. Then it might be OK.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
I liked ST V. I guess to me it was purely speculative. I liked ST III too. But not the movie (I). What was VII? I liked IV but not as a Star Trek movie. It was very funny and interesting, but didn't feel like Star Trek.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: Unless they can get Peter Jackson to direct it. Then it might be OK.
Jackson is 1 for 2 with me. LOTR was amazing. I thought Kong was a flop. He hasn't done enough to make me think he has a golden touch at anything yet except Tolkien.
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