Well on my way back from my managers office I saw the following quotation written on the public white board.
"Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels."
Trying to live with a woman who is constantly bombarded with the idiocy of the media's ideal body type has pushed me to the point of feral rage when I see garbage like that. I honestly don't know whether to find the author who wrote it and pay for his/her therapy sessions or clip off pieces of their body with scissors until they scream, "TOO SKINNY!"
....Now that psychosis has passed.
That quotation really bothered me. The kind of bother that makes feel sadness in regards to the human race. The same reaction that was invoked when I read Stalin's quote for the first time,
"The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic."
Posted by brojack17 (Member # 9189) on :
Being the father of four girls, I think about this almost daily. I just try to get them to be happy with themselves.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Obviously that person has never had chocolate, or pizza, or a shrimp taco, or... Excuse me, it's lunch time. Posted by BaoQingTian (Member # 8775) on :
I understand where you're coming from. Growing up, my wife was pressured by family, friends, and the media to conform to some impossible ideal (like the 85 lb anorexic model ideal). It took a lot of effort the first couple years of marriage to convince her that she looked great- and the really ironic part of that is that her BMI is well inside the normal zone.
On the other hand, I say almost the exact same thing as your manager wrote on the board to myself all the time. If I'm tempted by Friday doughnut day at work, I just tell myself that no matter how good that creme filled doughnut would taste, it's not worth the feeling of getting out of shape. Mine's more of an internal fitness motivation rather than an external image expectation. Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
I work with a woman who has a little dopey plaque hanging in her office: "Dear Lord, if you can't make me thin, please make all my friends fat."
I find this just as or more obnoxious than the "as skinny feels" thing.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Wow, I find it about 100 times MORE obnoxious. The first could have been self-directed.
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
BlackBlade, I understand where you're coming from here, but there is a fair amount of legitimacy there as well, just as BQT mentions...
The problem is that America (on this issue as well as others) is too much a land of the extremes. We have far too much media pressure to maintain that <100 lb anorexic figure, but we also have far too many >250lb people as well...
Certainly there are some portion where their weight is not entirely their fault, but it's hard to argue that we're a healthy nation in general. As a somewhat fat man I'd see that slogan and say to myself "yep that's more or less true" as long as it doesn't have a picture of Calista Flockheart or Kate Moss (before they slip through the cracks in the floorboards).
And the same generally goes for Stalin's quote. If he was using it as a justification for his actions then yes it's abominable, but as a simple statement of fact it's largely true (at least in terms of public opinion). It's not a pleasant thing, but when I hear a report about one man dead with some blurb with his name and life story it's much easier to muster up some sympathy than it is when I hear 100 were killed in a car crash. Obviously the 100 or 1000000 is a greater tradgedy, but as a human it's generally near impossible to wrap my head around the death of one individual, much less a gaggle.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Grimace: Oh believe me I censor myself all the time as to what I eat. Though I confess I am pretty prejudice as to what poisons Ill consume.
No icecream at all and no candy, but soda and fast food are always welcome.
Bear in mind though I fully understand that were I overweight it would be my responsibility to adjust my lifestyle to stop that fact. Even though I am at my ideal weight I still realize that exercise is important.
But the fact that my wife says to me, "I need to be skinnier for you." and I know she has gotten that notion from somewhere else, as I always tell her how beautiful she looks to me. She's 165 lbs she doesn't need to be a size 2 to look beautiful!
I don't value one extreme over the other, I just wish one was not constantly trumped up as beautiful. The Saudi Arabians have fat farms and that pisses me off just as much.
edit: About Stalin, I was merely saying that the truthfulness of that quote is what makes me sad.
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
"or a shrimp taco,"
not eating shrimp tacos is a sign of good taste, nothing more.
And good like trying to find a shrimp taco here in San Antonio.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
BB, I am with you. I have know far too many women who have had relationships go up in smoke, not because their partners thought them too fat, but because they themselves thought that their partners would. Fat with a healthy self-image can actually be sexier than thin with an unhealthy self-image.
Posted by JenniK (Member # 3939) on :
Both my wife and I are overweight, but I didn't find the first comment offensive myself. I have been thin, and it DID feel better. Not because anyone told me it should, but because I had tons more energy, and it was easier to do active things.
I also blame no one but myself for being a bit overweight....and am seriously considering going on an active excersize plan, along with some form of a diet.
That comment seems to be very motivational to me, and sounds like something I would say to myself to keep myself on the right path.
Said to someone else it would probably be very rude though.
Posted by crescentsss (Member # 9494) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tante Shvester: I work with a woman who has a little dopey plaque hanging in her office: "Dear Lord, if you can't make me thin, please make all my friends fat."
I find this just as or more obnoxious than the "as skinny feels" thing.
I actually think it's remotely amusing, I read it as mocking society for being so weight-conscious. I never would have read it as being serious .
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
I don't think JenniK has a wife.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Sometimes people surprise you.
Posted by Flaming Toad on a Stick (Member # 9302) on :
Was that Kwea?
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
You think? Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Not today. Today my head is stuffed with cotton wool.
Wet cotton wool.
Posted by Steev (Member # 6805) on :
quote: "Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels."
This line is really intended for me. An 80lb overweight fat guy who can't stop eating copious amounts of tasty morsels. I was thin once. I remember what it was like. I'm going to make it a poster and pin it to my door.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Originally posted by BaoQingTian: I understand where you're coming from. Growing up, my wife was pressured by family, friends, and the media to conform to some impossible ideal (like the 85 lb anorexic model ideal). It took a lot of effort the first couple years of marriage to convince her that she looked great- and the really ironic part of that is that her BMI is well inside the normal zone.
On the other hand, I say almost the exact same thing as your manager wrote on the board to myself all the time. If I'm tempted by Friday doughnut day at work, I just tell myself that no matter how good that creme filled doughnut would taste, it's not worth the feeling of getting out of shape. Mine's more of an internal fitness motivation rather than an external image expectation.
I'm usually on the same page as you on these issues, Bao, but I want to point out that there's a big difference between a person who is already thin and in shape hearing that message and a person who is overweight and out of shape hearing that message.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
I think the original line might have been a typo. What it was supposed to say was, "Nothing tastes as good as Krispy Kreme donuts when they're still hot." Is it possible you just misread it?
Posted by Wonder Dog (Member # 5691) on :
What about those of us who don't remember ever being thin? I wieghed 125 lbs in grade 2. I'm sure being thin feels good - and I yearn to feel that goodness almost every day.
While some people can talk about their wieght and their feelings without becoming upset, I am not one of those people. Call it immature, or lazy or whatever, but when people talk about a) How good it is to be thin, and b) How you can be thin if you just work hard enough at it, I find it really painful.
Just being honest.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Sadly, the quotation ignores those people that never feel that they are thin enough or who start to equate thin and "feel good". Plenty of people who don't feel good, think they will if they just get thin - and when that doesn't work end up with eating disorders. And, honestly, some of us fat folks still manage to feel pretty darn good.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: I think the original line might have been a typo. What it was supposed to say was, "Nothing tastes as good as Krispy Kreme donuts when they're still hot." Is it possible you just misread it?
You know Lisa when Krispy Kreme first opened in Utah in the city of Orem, people waited in line for those stupid things for seriously 2-3 hours at any time of the day or night. I suppose thats the quotation they had all heard
Though I will admit Krispy Kreme donuts definitely still retain their tastiness long after other donuts have gone stale.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
I don't want to make light of the seriousness of eating disorders or to offend those who have metabolic problems, but right now in the US obesity is a much more widespread problem than anorexia. Obesity is considered to be the number one public health problem.
I think it is unfortunate that so many people view being overweight as primarily an asthetic problem. They are more likely to worry about how they look or how attractive they are to other people than they are to worry about their health and how they feel.
The sign BB saw didn't say "Nothing tastes as good as skinny looks." But that seems to be how most everyone is interpreting it. What it talked about was how "skinny feels" which I understood to be referring to how much more energy and vitality you feel when you're physically fit. The only problem I see with it at all is that it seems to be equating physically fit with skinny which really isn't fair. Although obese and fit are pretty much mutually exclusive, skinny doesn't necessarily mean healthy.
If the sign had read ""Nothing tastes as good as physically fit feels", would you have found it objectionable.
[ December 11, 2006, 07:11 PM: Message edited by: The Rabbit ]
Posted by Libbie (Member # 9529) on :
I agree, Rabbit. My husband is overweight, and I want him to get back into shape badly. Not because I don't think he's attractive, but because I think he's a heart attack waiting to happen. This whole country needs to focus on HEALTH. Overweight is not healthy, I don't care what anybody says, and underweight is not healthy. They both carry very serious risks.
However, I have to point out that the phrase "Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels" is MEANT to be interpreted both as "looks" and "feels." It's a very common phrase among the "pro-ana" set - the people, mostly online, who are pro-anorexia and try to help one another foster their eating disorders, or even develop them if they don't already have them. It's a scarily big internet support community that spreads all kinds of alarming advice about how to lose weight. "Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels" is one of their common slogans.
It's also wise to point out here that eating disorders are usually more about emotions and control in an out-of-control life than they are about physical appearance, too. Although there certainly are plenty of anorexic and bulemic women [edit: and men] who get started with their eating disorders because they want to look like models, or because having an eating disorder is considered tragically hip in many social circles.
What a great world.
[ December 11, 2006, 07:25 PM: Message edited by: Libbie ]
Posted by Libbie (Member # 9529) on :
quote:Originally posted by breyerchic04: I don't think JenniK has a wife.
Actually, when I first read that I thought it was my friend Jenni, with a new last name. She and her partner refer to each other as "wives" even though they haven't even had a commitment ceremony, or anything like that. I had to scratch my head for a minute and ask myself, "Did Jenni sign up on Hatrack when I wasn't looking?" Posted by Libbie (Member # 9529) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wonder Dog: What about those of us who don't remember ever being thin? I wieghed 125 lbs in grade 2. I'm sure being thin feels good - and I yearn to feel that goodness almost every day.
While some people can talk about their wieght and their feelings without becoming upset, I am not one of those people. Call it immature, or lazy or whatever, but when people talk about a) How good it is to be thin, and b) How you can be thin if you just work hard enough at it, I find it really painful.
Just being honest.
That is sad! Aww. I want to hug you now.
Have you seen a doctor about it?
Posted by DaisyMae (Member # 9722) on :
I don't find the statement upsetting. I agree that WAY too much pressure is put upon the image of being very thin, but little reminders like that help me make good choices. I'm not fat, nor am I terribly thin. I'm pretty average. If I don't be careful, I could get heavy. To me, being healthy (or "skinny," I suppose) really does taste better than anything else. I don't completely restrict anything, but I do try to moderate as much as possible.
Posted by Nikisknight (Member # 8918) on :
It is probably just a couple people trying to encourage each other on their diets, perfectly innocuous.
But that's all I dare comment on the subject, as a human garbage disposal.
Posted by Wonder Dog (Member # 5691) on :
Libbie - My wife and I have been seeing a dietitian about it for the last few moths. It's going... okay. I recognize, though, that we have to change our lifestyles permanently - this isn't an attempt to "diet". And we both have some emotional hang-ups that affect our eating, so now we're starting to look at how we deal with those issues...
Talking about our emotional issues may seem like an excuse, but I know how powerfully they affect our eating. That's why I resent it when people use glib slogans to remind you that being thin is healthier - like it's a simple as giving yourself a pep-talk. Many people I talk to talk about weight-loss like it's simply a matter of willpower. Gosh, all my life then, I must have just not wanted to be thin enough to buckle down and do it.
(Sorry for the bitterness!)
Posted by Steev (Member # 6805) on :
From personal experience, eating disorders and emotional issues are integrated so tight I see no difference. I may always psychoanalyze myself to discover why I chose the extra large tater-tots rather than the side salad but it goes much deeper than that.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
I'm not qualified to talk about most of this thread. I agree with The Rabbit that if "skinny" were replaced with "fitness" or "healthy" it would be near impossible to object to.
But the main reason I am posting is to express my horror that there is a group, let alone a "big" one, that thinks anorexia is a positive thing and treats it as a gospel to be spread.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
I hate that we all just look for ways to put other people down. I mean, if someone we're envious of gains weight, how many of us are secretly just a little bit pleased? On the other side, how many people automatically label rail-thin actresses or models as anorexic? Because after all, no one could be THAT thin unless they've got some horrible disease and are a terrible role model for women everywhere. And no one could be THAT fat unless they're a lazy slob. That way you can feel disdain for them more easily.
-pH
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
I know two women here who are quite attractive and very healthy and I hear people say they are anorexic behind their back. I agree that it's uncalled for.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Rabbit I agree that if it had said, "Nothing tastes as good as physically fit feels." I would have absolutely no objection. And perhaps the person made a mistake and meant physically fit but wrote skinny instead.
Its still a possibility the foolish person believes that simply being skinny equates to happiness as being skinny is easier to cope with in American society then obesity.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
quote: being skinny is easier to cope with in American society then obesity.
Depends. How do you define easy?
-pH
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by pH:
quote: being skinny is easier to cope with in American society then obesity.
Depends. How do you define easy?
-pH
From my perception of things,
There is a greater stigma attached to being say X lbs overweight then X lbs under weight. Obviously this curves off at a certain point, but I think it is true within a pretty large spectrum.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
A lot of the typical complains of the problems with being overweight apply equally to skinny people. Finding clothes, being looked on with disdain (as I mentioned previously). I'm not even really underweight (my BMI is around 18.3), and I have had trouble getting waitresses to serve me diet drinks, and I've had doctors who assume that if I'm concerned about the potential or weight gain on a medication, I'm anorexic. The argument that skinny people can shop at "regular stores" doesn't really apply in most cases, since most mall stores like Old Navy and Gap are really cut for an "average" figure, making them unflattering on skinny people as well. On top of that, I don't really get to talk about it with my friends. If I mention anything about my figure, I'm anorexic. A lot of the inconveniences of being skinny are dismissed outright. I'm just trying to point out there really is a lot of vitriol directed at BOTH ends of the spectrum, not just one.
Edit: To clarify, I mean social sorts of inconveniences.
-pH
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Would it be less objectionable, but just as powerful if the quote was, "Nothing tastes as good as being fit feels."
Posted by scholar (Member # 9232) on :
18.3 is underweight for BMI.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
quote:Originally posted by scholar: 18.3 is underweight for BMI.
By .2 of a point. It's not REALLY underweight.
-pH
Posted by Libbie (Member # 9529) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wonder Dog: Libbie - My wife and I have been seeing a dietitian about it for the last few moths. It's going... okay. I recognize, though, that we have to change our lifestyles permanently - this isn't an attempt to "diet". And we both have some emotional hang-ups that affect our eating, so now we're starting to look at how we deal with those issues...
Talking about our emotional issues may seem like an excuse, but I know how powerfully they affect our eating. That's why I resent it when people use glib slogans to remind you that being thin is healthier - like it's a simple as giving yourself a pep-talk. Many people I talk to talk about weight-loss like it's simply a matter of willpower. Gosh, all my life then, I must have just not wanted to be thin enough to buckle down and do it.
(Sorry for the bitterness!)
That's okay! I really do understand what you and your wife are going through. My husband is the same way - eating is like a comfort thing to him, to deal with various stresses, and we're really working hard together to get him to change the way he deals with life. It's so hard, both for him and me. It's been two years of uphill battling! But we'll make it. He's getting better about dealing with stress in healthier ways every day, so I am seeing light at the end of the tunnel!
If it makes you feel any better about the slogan in question here, it truly is something that mentally ill people say to each other to encourage one another to continue to be sick. It's quite sad, really. Whoever wrote that on the whiteboard was NOT just being glib or benignly encouraging a dieting friend - I believe that their choice to display a well-known "pro-ana" slogan in public is just a cry for help with their illness. Posted by Libbie (Member # 9529) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jim-Me:
But the main reason I am posting is to express my horror that there is a group, let alone a "big" one, that thinks anorexia is a positive thing and treats it as a gospel to be spread.
It truly is horrifying. And so many of the participants in this community are young girls. The good news is that psychiatrists and other mental health professionals who deal with eating disorders are AWARE of the "pro-ana" stuff now and are working hard to steer their patients toward healthy, positive support groups instead of destructive ones.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:a well-known "pro-ana" slogan
I dispute that this is well known to be a pro-anorexia slogan and so anyone who put it on the white board would have viewed it as such.
I, like others here, had no idea that there even were pro-anorexia groups let alone that this was one of their slogans. I find it very easy to believe that someone could have put this up on a board to benignly encourage friends to stay on their diets without any idea that it would be seen as encouraging eating disorders.
As I have mentioned before, obesity is a much more widespread problem than anorexia. That doesn't mean that anorexia isn't a problem, but given that obesity is such a widespread problem it seems riculous to see all efforts to encourage people to loose weight as promoting eating disorders.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
It does seem to imply that "feeling good" is only going to happen to those that are skinny.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by pH: A lot of the typical complains of the problems with being overweight apply equally to skinny people. Finding clothes, being looked on with disdain (as I mentioned previously). I'm not even really underweight (my BMI is around 18.3), and I have had trouble getting waitresses to serve me diet drinks, and I've had doctors who assume that if I'm concerned about the potential or weight gain on a medication, I'm anorexic. The argument that skinny people can shop at "regular stores" doesn't really apply in most cases, since most mall stores like Old Navy and Gap are really cut for an "average" figure, making them unflattering on skinny people as well. On top of that, I don't really get to talk about it with my friends. If I mention anything about my figure, I'm anorexic. A lot of the inconveniences of being skinny are dismissed outright. I'm just trying to point out there really is a lot of vitriol directed at BOTH ends of the spectrum, not just one.
Edit: To clarify, I mean social sorts of inconveniences.
-pH
Where were you when we had this arguement a couple months back.
I had a BMI of ~17.5 for about 20 years until I was diagnosed with gluten intolerance. I'm now have a BMI of 20. I can second everything you've said about being skinny.
Even with a BMI of 20, I have a hard time finding clothes in most stories unless I'm looking in the teenage section and I really think I look kind of goofy in teenage styles now that I'm in my 40s.
Do you have any idea how hard it is to find size 4? I'm lucky if stores have even one item in my size. When I was a size 2 it was almost impossible to find anything that fit.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
That just blows my mind, because frequently I find that sizes 2 - 6 are the only things left on the rack when everything else has sold out. I was looking at a top yesterday that had roughly 6 XSs, 4 Ss, 1 XL and 2 1XLs. I needed an M.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
Murphy's law.
Where do you shop ElJay? I want to know where these rack loads of sizes 2-6 are.
Posted by Libbie (Member # 9529) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:a well-known "pro-ana" slogan
I dispute that this is well known to be a pro-anorexia slogan and so anyone who put it on the white board would have viewed it as such.
I, like others here, had no idea that there even were pro-anorexia groups let alone that this was one of their slogans. I find it very easy to believe that someone could have put this up on a board to benignly encourage friends to stay on their diets without any idea that it would be seen as encouraging eating disorders.
As I have mentioned before, obesity is a much more widespread problem than anorexia. That doesn't mean that anorexia isn't a problem, but given that obesity is such a widespread problem it seems riculous to see all efforts to encourage people to loose weight as promoting eating disorders.
If you don't believe me, google "nothing tastes as good as skinny feels" (with quotes) and click on ANY site that comes up. I guarantee you 99% of them will be pro-ana sites.
Edit to add: Actually, if you do it without the quotes, you get even more, because it also throws in the "...as thin feels" and the "...as being skinny feels" variations.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Actually, with the quotes, the first three links were to the same Xanga community (that is pro-ana) and none of the rest in the first two pages had anything to do with it. Most were to "normal" weight loss sites, like WW and spark people, men's health, a couple of pages from people who did gastric bypass, and two links to this thread.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: Murphy's law.
Where do you shop ElJay? I want to know where these rack loads of sizes 2-6 are.
Yeah, that's the way it goes.
I do most of my actual buying at discount department stores, like TJ Maxx and Marshell's, because they tend to have a wide selection of sizes and cuts. (Even when I find things that are theoretically the right size they usually don't fit, because my proportions are not "normal.") The store referenced above, however, was Coldwater Creek.
It also could be a function of where I live, however. People in the Upper Midwest tend to be more padded than those further south and nearer the coast, so maybe the smaller stuff just doesn't sell out as fast here.
Posted by Libbie (Member # 9529) on :
quote:Originally posted by ElJay: Actually, with the quotes, the first three links were to the same Xanga community (that is pro-ana) and none of the rest in the first two pages had anything to do with it. Most were to "normal" weight loss sites, like WW and spark people, men's health, a couple of pages from people who did gastric bypass, and two links to this thread.
Really? I got the Xanga communities, several LJ communities, one Myspace community, and a number of random pro-ana web pages. I had two sparkpeople pages in the first three pages of results and one seemingly normal dieting page.
Maybe all these pro-ana pages I'm getting mention my region in some way, so Google thinks they're more relevant to me. Maybe there are more anorexics in Seattle than anywhere else. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dan_raven: Would it be less objectionable, but just as powerful if the quote was, "Nothing tastes as good as being fit feels."
It's certainly much better.
quote:Originally posted by ElJay: The store referenced above, however, was Coldwater Creek.
They have stores? Are they as ridiculously overpriced as their catalogs? Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Yep and yep.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Although they do sometimes have clearance racks in their stores, which is somewhat more convenient than the catalog. And they sometimes hand out coupons as you enter for money off if you spend over a certain amount.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
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That is sad! Aww. I want to hug you now.![[Razz]](tongue.gif)