I searched these forums for the word "Polonium" and found nothing, which is odd. Any thoughts on this subject? Could Putin really be that bold as to kill off his enemies this blatantly? Whodunnit? Was it the butler? (With the nuclear reactor in the conservator?) Or was it Kim Jong Ill (forget selling to terrorists) in the library?
What a depressing world we live in.
quote: The substance used, polonium-210, is known to cause a slow and painful death, indicating that the perpetrators were vying for the kind of prolonged public attention they may not have achieved had Litvinenko been gunned down by contract killers.
[ December 04, 2006, 11:22 PM: Message edited by: Phanto ]
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
I'm betting they didn't think how well the radioactivity would be traceable back to Russia.
Too bad the trail is going to go cold there. Mysteriously.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
I doubt its Putin directly, but he's probably made it known its open season on certain classes of people (heck, he's pretty much done that publicly).
Russia is undergoing a massive transformation back to a totalitarian society. This is sad.
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
I'm surprised that this hasn't come up on this forum before.
quote:I doubt its Putin directly, but he's probably made it known its open season on certain classes of people (heck, he's pretty much done that publicly).
Indeed. And Litvinenko isn't the first Putin-critic to die mysteriously (well, be murdered) in the last few months. If the Russian government isn't responsible for it, they have to be very uncomfortable with all the recent attention.
--j_k
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
"Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?"
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
Heh. Exactly.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
The MAJOR surprise would have been to find any polonium which was not manufactured in Russia. With minor rearrangement
quote:...the Oak Ridge National Laboratory..spokesman said it sold no polonium210 because Russia was able to do so much more inexpensively. ...Russia's top nuclear official said it exports 8 grams of polonium210 a month, or 96 grams a year, to the United States.
Industrial companies found polonium210 to be ideal for making static eliminators that remove dust... Manufacturers of antistatic devices take great pains to make the polonium hard to remove. Even so, Dr. Zimmerman of King's College said it could be done with "careful lab work," which he declined to describe.
An antistatic fan made by NRD [of New York]...contains 31,500 microcuries of polonium210...10 lethal doses. The unit often sells commercially for $225.00. The company's antistatic brushes contain...500 microcuries... ...by spending $203.94...then disassembling six brushes, someone with lab experience could accumulate a lethal dose.
[ December 05, 2006, 03:06 AM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
I've avoided commenting on this until more information becomes available. It seems that the obvious possibilities are:
1) Putin had this done using old KGB tactics that he is familiar with, being and Old KGB guy.
2) The US had this done using tactics that would throw suspicion on Russia, mostly to throw suspicion on Russia. However, I discount htis as very unlikely. The CIA has not shown an aptitude for the spy business in 30 years.
3) A third party did this in hopes of currying favor with Putin. They did not realize how traceable it would be.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
4) Litvinenko tried to blackmail the wrong dudes. 5) Litvinenko tried to commit near-suicide to aid Chechen terrorists by creating greater credibility for his smearing of Putin, and overdosed.
[ December 05, 2006, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
He was actually killed by a mutant, like the guy on Heroes who can generate radioactivity.
They're heeeere.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
Russia needs Jack Bauer to get to the bottom of this.
Too bad the Chinese have him. Posted by brojack17 (Member # 9189) on :
This couldn't have come up before. Everyone is spending all their time complaining about the toilet seat. (See living with another person thread)
Posted by brojack17 (Member # 9189) on :
This couldn't have come up before. Everyone is spending all their time complaining about the toilet seat. (See living with another person thread)
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dan_raven: I've avoided commenting on this until more information becomes available. It seems that the obvious possibilities are:
1) Putin had this done using old KGB tactics that he is familiar with, being and Old KGB guy.
2) The US had this done using tactics that would throw suspicion on Russia, mostly to throw suspicion on Russia. However, I discount htis as very unlikely. The CIA has not shown an aptitude for the spy business in 30 years.
3) A third party did this in hopes of currying favor with Putin. They did not realize how traceable it would be.
4) Putin did it to send a clear unmistable message to his enemies: A classic tactic of organized crime bosses. Putin knew that it would be traceable enough for all his enemies to understand the message, yet still impossible to prove.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
Yes, but the whole affair is so surreal that it defies logic. If Putin is sending a message, it is a very smug, cynical message. A scary one.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
Well yes Phanto. The message Putin is sending to his enemies is that it is extremely dangerous to betray him and his government.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Assuming Putin did indeed order the killing, the message is simply not to mess with him.
But the whole circumstance seems so out of character for a ruthless Russian autocrat. If the trail runs cold in Russia, it will merely be a silly coincidence! Нет ничего, чтобы видеть здесь, друга. Продолжайте перемещаться.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
"...German investigators found....polonium-210 in Hamburg...where [Kovtun] spent four days...before meeting with Litvinenko. Traces of polonium-210 have now been confirmed in a Hamburg apartment of Kovtun's ex-wife, where he spent two nights, and the car that picked him up from the Hamburg airport when he arrived from Moscow."
"...chief public attorney Martin Kenke announced that Dmitry Kovtun, who has a German residency permit, is being charged by the Hamburg police with the illegal possession and mishandling of radioactive materials...German investigators have grounds to believe that Dmitry Kovtun is not only a victim of radiation sickness but also the "poisoner" in the Litvinenko case."
"Dmitry Kovtun, Managing Partner [at VistaForeignBusinessSupport]...worked at Gazprom and the Alfa Group." ie Kovtun's main selling point is his relationship to the Russian oil&gas giant believed to have gained its prominence through close ties with exKGBmafia extortionists.
[ December 12, 2006, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by orlox (Member # 2392) on :
A funny footnote to this story is that Polonium is available through mail order. Even funnier, when they were interviewing the owner of the mail order business I recognized him as UFO nut Bob Lazar.
Posted by orlox (Member # 2392) on :
An NPR reporter just confirmed that Litvinenko converted to Islam on his deathbed. Hmmmmmm
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
![[Wink]](wink.gif)