I have spent a year and a half here. In that time, I have accomplished little or nothing of worth. There were books I should have read, things I should have done, but instead I posted here.
What made me desire so much to devote such a substantial portion of my life to a community which had, at best, mixed feelings about my presence I can only surmise. Perhaps I believed that if could bear fardels here that I could withstand the tempests of time and the storms of the world.
Most probably, I desired the ability to express ideas which I could not express irl. I expressed them poorly here as well. Looking back over the years, my prose has moved closer to greatness, even if only as a man climbs nearer the sun by climbing a hill.
However, being a poor writer and rhetorician, I lacked the ability to argue convincingly even when I spoke the truth.
I named myself Pelegius because I fancied myself a heretic, and for a year and a half I have expressed heretical ideals. But I lack the strength to be a heretic, for I am not the stuff martyrs are made of.
It would be tempting for me to say that Hatrack failed me, but, in fact, I failed Hatrack. Were I of stronger character, perhaps things would have turned out better. But I am weak, and can no longer bear the role of the reed in the river of doubt.
As much as I have argued for the greatness of humanity against the large factions which believe it debased, I have begun to doubt, for I have seen much here which bodes poorly for this ideal.
I have naturally experienced political and religious opposition, but I could not have anticipated the degree of personal animosity that came even from those with whom I have had no quarrel.
Many shall doubtless be glad of my passing, as for myself, I am not sure I will be.
Please forgive the lack of eloquence in this farewell, but I cannot find the words in me.
I have fallen; I have failed. Forgive me.
Farewell and SAALAM
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
I am sorry that you feel you couldn't fit in with the group; I, for one, would have liked to have seen you become more comfortable here.
Good luck in your journey towards menschlikeit.
Posted by Uprooted (Member # 8353) on :
Oh, Pelegius, the thing is, we don't want a teacher, a martyr, a heretic, a blah-blah-blah. We just want people to talk with and interact with. And you never wanted to do that--you only wanted to preach at us. I'm 44, and I have my heroes, but among them are not high school kids who think they have all the answers. Not that I've never learned anything from anyone your age--quite the contrary. But generally what I learn from teenagers has to do with spirit, humility, and general goodness.
Hope you have a nice life and good friends.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
If you ever want a community and not an audience, Hatrack will be here. Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
No one ever voluntarily leaves Hatrack. It takes a life-changing event to keep you away.
Have fun in the few weeks (days? hours? minutes?) before you check back for "just a couple of posts" and get hooked again. Hell, just starting a thread like this will only feed your desire to return to see what people have said.
No one who starts a goodbye thread ever leaves for good.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
quote:Originally posted by Uprooted: Oh, Pelegius, the thing is, we don't want a teacher, a martyr, a heretic, a blah-blah-blah. We just want people to talk with and interact with. And you never wanted to do that--you only wanted to preach at us. I'm 44, and I have my heroes, but among them are not high school kids who think they have all the answers. Not that I've never learned anything from anyone your age--quite the contrary. But generally what I learn from teenagers has to do with spirit, humility, and general goodness.
Hope you have a nice life and good friends.
Excellent post.
Good luck, Pelegius. I don't agree with your stated assessment of yourself or of the other Hatrackers, but I wish you a good future.
(What the hell, I'll take the low road and say it: Any personal animosity you experienced here was merely people reflecting your frequent rudeness back at you. Doubtlessly there are better ways to respond to rudeness than with rudeness, but people are going to respond as comes naturally, and fighting fire with fire does come naturally for most of us. I know that in almost every negative interaction I ever had with you, if you look at my first post, it was an attempt to take you seriously and respond thoughtfully. I became more aggressive when I found your replies dismissive of me. This tendency of yours to dismiss others' views and others' knowledge and expertise can be seen in your post in this thread, where, as Uprooted noted, you talk about all the enlightenment you have to bring, but not of the possibility that it may be you in need of enlightenment as often as not.)
Whether you believe it or not, despite my occasional anger, I bear you no malice. When I get angry, I respond angrily. When someone demands my respect but does not treat me with respect in turn, I tend to get angry. But when it's over, it's over. I believe that you will outgrow the habits that make me annoyed with you. (I'm sorry that sounds condescending; I don't think it can be helped.) I believe that when that happens, you will find Hatrack a more rewarding experience.
(And, for what it's worth, I believe that growth will happen sooner if you do not run away from intellectual challenges such as the one posed by Hatrack.)
But if you need some time away to recharge and rethink, I understand and wish you well.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Sucks that you want to leave. You have such an awesome Dream-like way of writing.
Posted by Libbie (Member # 9529) on :
yeah, who wanted a heretic or a martyr? I just liked talking to you.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Who cares what others think? Just be strong inside yourself and be ready to grow. You got a great writing style at least and use awesome large words.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
quote:Originally posted by Primal Curve: No one ever voluntarily leaves Hatrack. It takes a life-changing event to keep you away.
So true.
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
Pel, for what it's worth, it seems to me that the core of your views are right and should be screamed from the mountain top, and instead, you are out there crying in the wilderness, and it is too bad. It also seems to me that there is no need to end the thread in Latin. Jesus said the words in Hebrew, maybe, then had it translated to Greek, then Latin, and in the end, you could have said, "It's finished." I think you are stuck in a way of thinking that sets being obscure equal to being profound, and I don't think that's the case.
I also think you should keep doing exactly as you are doing, and soon enough, you'll do it better, and more convincingly, and with more insight and care and with such moral clarity that you won't have to rely on the obscurity as a crutch, and then even if you are never popular, which is ever a live threat, the whole of the world will be better for listening to you.
For college, have you thought about St. Johns?
Edit:
I also think that Moose locking down your last thread reflects his small mind. You were articulating some facet of American culture you see, and while I didn't agree everything you said or how you said it, locking the thread down because your ideas weren't fashionable or warm and fuzzy or "community-building in any respect," is indicative of how the Man keeps control. It's also the precursor to riots and terrorist actions.
[ December 11, 2006, 01:08 PM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pelegius: I have spent a year and a half here. In that time, I have accomplished little or nothing of worth.
I agree. But I wish for you that you might grow and mature and accomplish much of worth in the future.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Primal Curve: No one who starts a goodbye thread ever leaves for good.
Hush.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Pelegius, it's good that you can leave this site if it isn't what you need right now.
It's also good that you can come back anytime if you want, under this name or another. People have often written "goodbye threads" and then come back later, either under the same or another assumed name (though the latter is often guessed at anyway).
So should you decide to return, you'd be in a long and honorable tradition -- no shame in that. And should you not return, well, HR will still be here, and you can always change your mind. Just do what's best for you, and that's all anyone can expect. Take care.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: If you ever want a community and not an audience, Hatrack will be here.
Precisely. Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Bye Pel!!!!
Btw, I left twice without ever posting a goodbye thread and came back anyway.
I'm sure we'll see you again, Pel, I just hope you grow up some in the mean time.
Posted by Loren (Member # 9539) on :
<looks at thread title> Okay, who had "messiah complex?" You win the pool.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
For the record and in his defense, although the excellent Moose needs none, Papa Moose handled the thread exactly right and responsibly. Using Pel's thread as a chance to sideswipe the moderator is rude.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Go on a couple of dates, get out of the house, experience enough of life to realize it's not black and white, and let us know how it goes Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong: is indicative of how the Man keeps control.
"The Man" <snicker> Someone's been watching too much 1970's TV.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
quote:I have accomplished little or nothing of worth. There were books I should have read, things I should have done, but instead I posted here.
Geez... this is the INTERNET. There's nothing of worth here anyway!
Now excuse me while I finish my Nobel Peace Prize acceptance speech...
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
*Hides her nobel prize* It's just not as cool now that Arafat won one.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
Yeah, but he only has ONE...
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
I won one large Nobel and seven little ones.
-o-
I'm sure Pop is flattered to know he is "The Man."
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
*gets onto a Nobel Prize Fight with Nighthawk* Take THAT! and THAT! and THAT! And I got a bag fulla ammunition here!
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Icky: Pop's always been The Man.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: For the record and in his defense, although the excellent Moose needs none, Papa Moose handled the thread exactly right and responsibly. Using Pel's thread as a chance to sideswipe the moderator is rude.
I agree, Papa Moose didn't lock the thread because of what Pel said, he locked it because of everyone else's (mine included) cruel reactions to what Pel said.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Sometimes I wonder if I could manage to get a thread locked, but then I remember that it's no way to get that Internet Nobel Peace Prize I've been saving up for.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Nothing anyone else posted was more cruel than what Pel originally posted in that thread. I don't know if it was lock-worthy or not, but it was certainly insulting.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Oh, I think Pel's original post was as self-righteous, wooly-headed, and wrong as almost anything I've ever seen posted on Hatrack, and that's really saying something.
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: Oh, I think Pel's original post was as self-righteous, wooly-headed, and wrong as almost anything I've ever seen posted on Hatrack, and that's really saying something.
Speaking of self-righteous...
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
quote:What made me desire so much to devote such a substantial portion of my life to a community which had, at best, mixed feelings about my presence I can only surmise. Perhaps I believed that if could bear fardels here that I could withstand the tempests of time and the storms of the world.
You used surmise incorrectly and I'm thinking that using an archaic word that I've never encountered outside of Hamlet betrays a focus on other than respectful communication. Say "guess" and "burden". For one thing, it saves you from looking foolish when you misuse "big" words that you don't actually understand. For another, it actually sounds like you care about communicating with people.
The thing you need to understand is why you failed. You didn't fail becaue you lack the ability to write or argue well. You didn't fail because you lacked strength of character. You failed long before that. You failed in your goals, in what you were trying to do, and in how you approached Hatrack.
If you continue on the way you did here, you are going to keep failing in any community of any worth.
I never disliked you. But I think you are in serious need of a change and I don't really think you'll change until life kicks you in the nuts a few times and - and this is the important part - you understand why you are getting kicked in the nuts.
Pel, you've made frequent (and often incorrect) reference to the Enlightenment. I'd ask you to consider your own behavior in light of two of the main things the Enlightenment opposed. That is, asserting things are true without maing a solid case for this and the appealling to the authority of smart guys in books like the Scholastics did.
In your time here, I don't think I've seen you come out from these two things. Because of this, I've found most of what you had to say uninteresting. From my perspetive, your pattern seems to have been to assert some statement as true without supporting this assertion and then try to back it up by things other people said or believe (often bringing in things that were incorrect or irrelevant). I don't know that I've ever seen you make a cogent argument of your own.
You've got a lot of growing up to do, and it's going to be painful. I hope, eventually, something induces you to make this choice, instead of the much more comfortable, but ultimately empty and limiting one of playing the wronged martyr.
[ December 11, 2006, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: MrSquicky ]
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Yes, Primal Curve? You want to finish that thought?
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
I agree that the original post was horrible. I just don't think the original post alone would have prompted Papa Moose to lock the thread.
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
Regardless of Papa Moose's reasons, he was definitely correct to do so. Of all the people on this site that might deserve the label "small mind," Papa Moose is most definitely not one of them.
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: Yes, Primal Curve? You want to finish that thought?
Back at Cambridge, I was voted least likely to finish a coherent-
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Pel: I echo the sentiment that while some of what you said I just plain disagreed with, I actually saw your posting style become more tolerable as the weeks went by. Even thought the use of latin for the subject seems to be a throwback to those days where pedantry dominated your posts, still it is sad to see you go and for the reasons you stated.
Please consider that you are always welcome back. You will be quite surprised that most of us, should you come back, will be quite willing to respond to your posts as they stand currently and not simply rehash things we may have said to you in your prior posts. You are not doomed to exile for eternity from hatrack, don't think for a second that you are. If you choose to leave, remember that I, and I do not think I am alone, never wished for you to leave.
I echo what Lisa said,
quote: But I wish for you that you might grow and mature and accomplish much of worth in the future.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
I still think getting a girlfriend and taking up a hobby or sporting activity that has nothing to do with ancient languages or cultures would do Pel a world of good.
Intentionally smashing your body into other people forcefully gives you a whole new perspective on things.
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
Dude, family forum.
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
quote:Originally posted by MrSquicky: Dude, family forum.
He's talking about hockey, of course.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
He's talking about football Squick! Get your mind out of the gutter.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Cow: Where would Pel get a girlfriend?
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Squick he was clearly mention Lacrosse.
----
Pixiest: I'm sure there are other forums out there where Pel will thrive. Or perhaps you could offer your services and help fix him Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Soccer, but the others are good too.
I don't know Pel well enough to know where he might find a girlfriend, but I do know that anybody can find someone with common interests. Maybe a nice girl will see in him what we don't have the opportunity to online, and will help bring out some less pedantic aspects of his personality Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Pel -
I don't even mind as much if you treat Hatrack like an audience rather than a community. I don't think it's fitting with the spirit here but whatever, it's your choice.
However, if that's what you're going to do, take a page from the great orators you like to quote so much and know your audience. I'm not going to hop onto a serious philosophy forum and start talking about what the best condiments are to put on hot dogs (ketchup and relish, btw), you shouldn't be gumming up our generally casual conversational style with heavy rhetoric then act all surprised when it doesn't come off right.
I have a challenge for you. Spend a week and post here like what you imagine a regular high school teenage boy would post like, which I imagine is equidistant from what Blayne does and what you usually do. It'll either come off as relievingly understandable, or horribly condescending/patronizing, but we'll know for sure whether you are at least capable or not.
You word all your posts like the very stereotype of a stuffy social studies professor baiting a high brow philosophical debate. I know a lot of incredibly smart, well read people, who are capable of high level discussion and debate, and guess what, the majority of them are here at Hatrack, and none of them talk like that. Unless you were raised by Socrates, I don't for a moment believe you casually talk like that with your friends at school, so stop trying to play Aristotle, or Joan d'Arc, or whatever your historical guise of the week is and try playing Normal Human.
Apologies in advance if this comes off as a rather scathing rebuke, but your "woe is me" act, especially on the heels of your incredibly insulting post on Conservatives is over the top, and has convinced me you should be in Mordor pushing siege engines.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
One thing I've always respected about Pel is his courage to post. I usually stay silent even though I feel like I have something to say. He always tried to say something, even if it was sometimes misinformed or condescending.
Pel's probably the most knowledgeable and well-spoken high school student I've ever seen, and that's gotta be hard to deal with.
Another thing is that when we all tell him to "grow up", it's kind of impossible until he's away from home at college. At least that's how it was with me.
If Pel does read this, I'd say "Ask more questions"
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Pel's probably the most knowledgeable and well-spoken high school student I've ever seen, and that's gotta be hard to deal with.
Knowledge is almost useless if you don't know what to do with it.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
What is this insulting post you all talk about? Was the thread deleted or just locked?
Posted by ladyday (Member # 1069) on :
Didn't Pel mention -having- a girlfriend?
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:what the best condiments are to put on hot dogs (ketchup and relish, btw),
Heathen.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
quote:Originally posted by Launchywiggin: Pel's probably the most knowledgeable and well-spoken high school student I've ever seen
I would just like to point out that using large words and dramatic gestures doesn't make you knowledgeable or well-spoken-- just as playing really fast in odd time signatures or scale modes doesn't make you a great musician
Communicating with and touching the hearts of your audience is the essence of musicianship, and of being well-spoken.
Failure to understand the distinction is Pel's entire problem. He is to clear discourse as Yngwie Malmsteen is to music: busy, pompous, and trying too hard to show everyone how "good" he is. This has been already been said to him many times over... so I guess I'm not sure why I'm saying it again, except that I thought it needed to be said again.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee:
quote:what the best condiments are to put on hot dogs (ketchup and relish, btw),
Heathen.
Mustard and Saurkraut for me...
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:playing really fast in odd time signatures or scale modes doesn't make you a great musician
I really wish Guitar magazine would put this on every single page of every single issue.
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
Pel, have you ever seen Good Will Hunting? Do you remember the scene where Robin Williams is sitting in the park talking to Matt Damon when he says the following?
quote:So if I asked you about art, you'd probably give me the skinny on every art book ever written. Michelangelo, you know a lot about him. Life's work, political aspirations, him and the pope, sexual orientations, the whole works, right? But I'll bet you can't tell me what it smells like in the Sistine Chapel. You've never actually stood there and looked up at that beautiful ceiling; seen that.
If I ask you about women, you'd probably give me a syllabus about your personal favorites. You may have even been laid a few times. But you can't tell me what it feels like to wake up next to a woman and feel truly happy.
You're a tough kid. And I'd ask you about war, you'd probably throw Shakespeare at me, right, "once more unto the breach dear friends." But you've never been near one. You've never held your best friend's head in your lap, watch him gasp his last breath looking to you for help.
I'd ask you about love, you'd probably quote me a sonnet. But you've never looked at a woman and been totally vulnerable. Known someone that could level you with her eyes, feeling like God put an angel on earth just for you. Who could rescue you from the depths of hell. And you wouldn't know what it's like to be her angel, to have that love for her, be there forever, through anything, through cancer. And you wouldn't know about sleeping sitting up in the hospital room for two months, holding her hand, because the doctors could see in your eyes, that the terms "visiting hours" don't apply to you. You don't know about real loss, 'cause it only occurs when you've loved something more than you love yourself. And I doubt you've ever dared to love anybody that much. And look at you... I don't see an intelligent, confident man... I see a cocky, scared...kid. But you're a genius Will. No one denies that. No one could possibly understand the depths of you. But you presume to know everything about me because you saw a painting of mine.
That's how I see you, Pel. You're smart, very smart, but you haven't a clue about life. Of course, that's not really your fault, you just haven't experienced it yet. The problem, however, is that you know how intelligent you are, you just can't see beyond that, and you end up missing out on all the experience, knowledge, and wisdom that others can offer to you. You think you've got everyone and everything figured out becuase you've read a book or two, but you have yet to truly understand people, especially the ones that you socialize and converse with. You have so much that you can offer to the Hatrack community if only you would spend less time trying to sound as smart as possible and more time trying to actually interact, listen, and understand people.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jim-Me:
quote:Originally posted by Launchywiggin: Pel's probably the most knowledgeable and well-spoken high school student I've ever seen
I would just like to point out that using large words and dramatic gestures doesn't make you knowledgeable or well-spoken-- just as playing really fast in odd time signatures or scale modes doesn't make you a great musician
Communicating with and touching the hearts of your audience is the essence of musicianship, and of being well-spoken.
Failure to understand the distinction is Pel's entire problem. He is to clear discourse as Yngwie Malmsteen is to music: busy, pompous, and trying too hard to show everyone how "good" he is. This has been already been said to him many times over... so I guess I'm not sure why I'm saying it again, except that I thought it needed to be said again.
Really enjoyed that offering Jim-Me. Its been a guiding principle in my music writing. I try hard to be real in my writing, but I would never pretend to be complex so that people would be impressed.
Its the same way I feel about art, I felt upset that I could not spend an hour in the Vatican Museum looking at Rafael's paintings. There was just so much realism and honesty to take in. I glance at much of what is considered art and I am bored within seconds.
John Schmidt is nice but kinda boring, I just rediscovered Rachmaniniov, what a great composer.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
I haven't kept up on the complete life and times of Pel, so he may have a GF that I don't know about.
If you do Pel, please have her post here. I would love to see what she's like Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
MC: You wouldn't know her. She lives in Canada.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Don't they have Hatrack in Canada, eh?
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
MC: Sorry, movie reference =)
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
(Ferris Bueller?)
--j_k
Posted by Ben (Member # 6117) on :
Breakfast club
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Ah, well the Breakfast Club can bite my left buttcheek. Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
Arg. See, what's funny is that I knew that, but for some reason I just typed the wrong title
--j_k
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jim-Me:
quote:Originally posted by Launchywiggin: Pel's probably the most knowledgeable and well-spoken high school student I've ever seen
I would just like to point out that using large words and dramatic gestures doesn't make you knowledgeable or well-spoken
In my first attempt to argue back with someone...
Pel never JUST uses big words--he almost always appeals to authoritative/academic sources. The fact that he knows Shakespeare, Socrates, and Latin etc. means that he is knowledgeable in a lot of subjects. The fact that he can articulate his thoughts better than most of my fellow college graduates makes him well-spoken in my mind.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Launchywiggin, this might be a matter of experience.
*double-take
Wait .. you yourself are a college graduate? Are you in your twenties?
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
quote: Pel never JUST uses big words--he almost always appeals to authoritative/academic sources. The fact that he knows Shakespeare, Socrates, and Latin etc. means that he is knowledgeable in a lot of subjects. The fact that he can articulate his thoughts better than most of my fellow college graduates makes him well-spoken in my mind.
Using Kant's model of intellectual analyzation as forwarded in his seminal work, A critique of Pure Reason, I will have to disagree. Like Kafka expresses through the schziophrenic fixation of Gregor on his lateness for work, I feel like this approach neglects a rounded, balanced appropriation of the facts for a more rounded and -- dare I say? -- plomp address.
Similar to Liebtniz's brilliant theory of Calculus that is nonetheless flawed for its use of infinitesimals, this theory is flawed. But concomittant to this flaw is a grain of beautiful exegesis that can be expounded and expanded to encompass the weltanschauung at hand. יִרְאַת , רֵאשִׁית דָּעַת; חָכְמָה וּמוּסָר, אֱוִילִים בָּזוּ.
Finally, let me add that as the 20s star Clara Bow states (famously) Being a sex symbol is hard to do when you are tired and depressed. Let me add that James Montgomery Flagg would not agree with the Platonic modeling, and that the Rambam, an 11th century philosopher, might have to chip in with a guide for the perplexed, such as one who has read thus far.
Furtheremore: We have to accept that this synectic approach is acceptable. I disagree with this. In the famous analyization of Clara Bow, the biographer David Stenn discusses his neurotic background. Applying the same supercillious standards of his to combat prolixity, we must accept that Rembrandnts famous painting of the naked Bath Sheba is, in fact, a sexual degeneration of the form to a primogenial form, embraccing sid pro quo forms.
Vah! Denuone Latine loquebar? Me ineptum. Interdum modo elabitur.
Let me finish by saying that I am an ***** and that we'll miss you, Pelegius. May your heart be sheilded in peace.
[ December 12, 2006, 12:25 AM: Message edited by: Phanto ]
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*snicker*
[Edit: My amusement was based on the original post. Misquotes in Hebrew do not amuse me. ]
[ December 12, 2006, 12:47 AM: Message edited by: rivka ]
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
There's no way I'm reading that whole thing. Especially the made up symbol things.
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
Phanto, your point is taken in good humor.
I think the difference is Pel is trying to put down a thing. It's hard business and most people balk at the task and talk about satsumas instead.
I think he is off, and that it would be a good idea for him to read more carefully, listen more and write less, but he is swinging for the fences. I appreciate the effort because it's possible that through his diligence, if he goes about it carefully, he will hit upon an idea that travels, and we'll live in a better world for it.
A few years ago, I put my money on Kasie H as a plucky young high school jr. whom I'd gladly end up working for in twenty years. Now she seems like a safe bet.
Now I'm throwing my weight behind Pel. In twenty years, as long as he keeps reading and doesn't start drinking, I'll be glad to know him. So Pel, when you are a big deal whatever, remember to invite me to the after-party.
[ December 12, 2006, 02:54 AM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
Posted by A Rat Named Dog (Member # 699) on :
It sounds like I missed a really fascinating thread ...
[goes thread-diving]
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
For those agreeing that Pel is well-spoken...well, he can use words with many syllables. That isn't really the same as being well-spoken. Most of his sentences are clunky, and as others have mentioned, he doesn't have a good concept of how to appeal to his audience.
Anyway, there's no kicking the Hatcrack habit.
-pH
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
I lurk at ornery on occasion, so I bring you Pelegius's farewell post from that forum.
quote:[partial quote, last paragraph only] It is with a great sense of failure that I write these words, being unable to hold an unpopular position is a sign of weakness, is it not? But I am weak and weary beyond my sixteen years, knowing that my giants, who were not windmills, still stand because I could amass no force against them. And all my speeches were but whispers to the wind. I have not the strength to speak of semantics, feeling much as Tennyson's Ulysses although I cannot say that I leave any Telemachus behind with my scepter and my isle, nor that my strength at any time was great enough to move Earth and Heaven.
Apparently, solipsistic bombast just won't fly there either.
Good luck to you Pelegius, whether you come back to Hatrack or not. Remember what Anatole France said: "I didn't begin to learn anything until after I had finished my studies." Robert Browning, who died on this day, said much the same:“Live and learn, Not first learn and then live.” There's more to life than books and academics, and internet fora. Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
This thread is giving me an Old Person Moment. I remember back when I was growing up, we had to talk to real people, face to face. We had to get out of the house and do things. We couldn't spend all our time on this Internet thing. I think we were better people for it, low these 30ish years ago. Posted by Hank (Member # 8916) on :
Does Pelegius remid anyone else of Strong Sad from Homestar Runner?
Posted by SenojRetep (Member # 8614) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pelegius: for I am not the stuff martyrs are made of.
You are not the stuff of which martyrs are made. You seem to have dangled your participle. Or preposition. Or whatever. This is the sort of thing up with which we Hatrackers should not put (to paraphrase Churchill. Or Churchhill. Or whatever).
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
quote:for I am not the stuff martyrs are made of.
For what are you being asked to martyr yourself?
Martyrs are made by necessity - no one knows until they are in that situation if they are willing to die/live for their religion/cause/family. When there is no one holding a gun to your head, so to speak, trying to be a martyr is pretentious and self-aggrandizing.
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
quote:Originally posted by Hank: Does Pelegius remid anyone else of Strong Sad from Homestar Runner?
No, because Strong Sad is likeable-- especially after a cup of coffee.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
quote:Pel never JUST uses big words--he almost always appeals to authoritative/academic sources. The fact that he knows Shakespeare, Socrates, and Latin etc. means that he is knowledgeable in a lot of subjects. The fact that he can articulate his thoughts better than most of my fellow college graduates makes him well-spoken in my mind.
He's read Shakespeare, as well as many of the other classical thinkers. That is not the same as understanding them. He has habitually showed such poor comprehension of what the people he quotes and paraphrases were actually saying that I can't imagine anyone thinking he's at all knowledgable about them.
As for well-spoken, given that's he almost never typed a sentence whose meaning was clear on the first pass, I'd have to respectfully disagree with you there, as well.
The fact that he seems to have fooled several people into thinking that, though, should be immensely satisfying to him.
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
Pel references other people's thought, often incorrectly or in inappropriate contexts, but I don't know that I've ever seen him articulate his own thoughts other that acting as if the things he says are obviously, unimpeachably true. It's one of the things I've been pushing him to do since he started posting here and something that I think would help him out immensely.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
While Phanto makes the point well, but indirectly, let me make it explicitly by a passage from Orthodoxy which, not by coincidence, was a part of my first post ever to Pelegius:
quote:It is a good exercise to try for once in a way to express any opinion one holds in words of one syllable. If you say “The social utility of the indeterminate sentence is recognized by all criminologists as a part of our sociological evolution towards a more humane and scientific view of punishment,” you can go on talking like that for hours with hardly a movement of the gray matter inside your skull. But if you begin “I wish Jones to go to gaol and Brown to say when Jones shall come out,” you will discover, with a thrill of horror, that you are obliged to think. The long words are not the hard words, it is the short words that are hard.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
I think it's awesome that Pel keeps on trying to say something. Yes, he's young, but that will change. I think if he keeps on writing, keeps on engaging with people, he'll be a much better person for it. Certainly much better than most of his peers who don't even try.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Chesterton! Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
CT, yeah, I just can't resist bringing him into things... a failing of mine
Storm, I am not sure that I consider what I have seen Pelegius do to be "trying" (well, it's trying all right, but not in the sense we meant it ). I freely admit that I haven't even read all his posts, much less know anything about the real person, but from what I have seen, he has no interest in improving. He was greeted with much good advice and many good faith attempts to help him communicate and he pointedly ignored them. I specifically remember one thread where he clearly and obviously ignored everyone who was trying to reach out an olive branch and instead focused on the very few, but nonetheless present, hecklers. That is not effort, in my book, and I have made it a personal mission to not feel obliged to those who will not lift a finger to help themselves.
Edit to add: It speaks volumes that his stated goal is to be a martyr. As Katharina accurately pointed out, that is bad. A martyr is trying to accomplish something else and dies in the process. If your goal is the martyrdom itself, then you are not a martyr but, in fact, the very opposite-- a suicide.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
quote:Originally posted by ClaudiaTherese:
Wait .. you yourself are a college graduate? Are you in your twenties?
22 as of Nov. 30
quote: Knowledge is almost useless if you don't know what to do with it.
Completely agreed.
quote:Pel's probably the most knowledgeable and well-spoken high school student I've ever seen
Hope that clears it up for everyone who felt compelled to disagree with me.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Actually, no.
We have several more knowledgeable and better-spoken high school students on Hatrack, completely ignoring those you may know IRL.
They're just not as in-your-face about it. And many you might not even know are high school students.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Kasie and Hobbes blew Pel out of the water. It wasn't obvious because they were confident enough to converse with adults on an adult level instead of jumping up and down like a toddler saying "Mommy, watch!"
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Absolutely. And we have a current crop that's pretty cool too. Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
I was just tired of some people ganging up on him. Maybe he isn't the "most" knowledgeable or well-spoken hs student, but when I was in high school, I wouldn't have been able to even have a conversation about half of the things Pel can talk about--and he's what, 16?
Sure--he's mellodramatic and he hasn't grasped the importance of clarity in his writing, but how is that different from most high school students? We're all expecting him to be a mature adult before it's physically or mentally possible. It's like our strategy has been to SMASH HIM DOWN AND TEACH HIM A LESSON.
I see a frustrated kid that's going through a VERY tough time dealing with reality--and instead of support, he's getting opposition from a community he DOES care about.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
What sort of support would be appropriate?
Posted by Will B (Member # 7931) on :
You know, I see Launchy's point. Pelegius might have benefited more from being ignored than from being flamed.
Yes, he was invasive in his comments, and insulting, but we could have modeled for him a better kind of discourse.
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
Launchy, his writing style, while problematic, isn't the main problem, in my opinion. I think people might be more inclined to cut Pel some slack about his style of discourse if he didn't have a history of being very rude and dismissive of other people's opinions. I don't think he SHOULD get support when he's that rude; I don't think kids should get a bye (by?) on politeness just because they're young, or having a tough time dealing with reality.
I don't it's so much that people's strategy has been "smash him down and teach him a lesson," as it is that people don't respond well to be treated rudely, regardless of the age of the person doing the treating.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
quote:I see a frustrated kid that's going through a VERY tough time dealing with reality--and instead of support, he's getting opposition from a community he DOES care about.
I've seen no indication that he cares in the slightest about this community. In fact, I've repeatedly seen evidence that he views us as a large sociology experiment, or a captive audience for his soliloquies, or a mirror.
Every other tactic described has been tried, a lot, by a lot of people. And yes, they all would have been a lot better than this. Too bad they didn't penetrate the fog surrounding the poor boy's head even a micrometer.
I think it's far more damaging to him as a person to feed his ego even more by telling him how well-spoken he is, and how mean everyone here has been to him than to tell him the truth.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: Actually, no.
We have several more knowledgeable and better-spoken high school students on Hatrack, completely ignoring those you may know IRL.
I'm talking about high school students in general. I think the majority of high school hatrackers are WAY above the norm, and I still stand by my assertion that Pel is intelligent, knowledgeable, and more well-spoken than the majority of high school students.
I would still prefer his convoluted writing to the grade-school level papers I've peer-reviewed in my English classes in college (they're really that awful).
I do think Pel needed some kind of negative reaction to many of the things he's said. I know that a lot of people have been nothing but respectful and positive in their criticism.
I guess it's just common that people usually RESPOND to posts because they disagree with one part of a post, and it's like all the rest of it just gets ignored in the discussion. I feel like that happened a whole lot with Pel.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina: Kasie and Hobbes blew Pel out of the water. It wasn't obvious because they were confident enough to converse with adults on an adult level instead of jumping up and down like a toddler saying "Mommy, watch!"
Wasn't Teshi still in high school when she first started?
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
it may be nit-picky, but it also bugs me that he continued to lie/mislead about the details of his age throughout his stay here...
Back when I first saw Pel posting he was claiming to be 17, which then got backed off to "17 in a month or two" which now apparently is backed off to a straight 16.
I know it's a small detail, and he never hid the fact that he was in highschool, but when you flat-out lie about something like that it just adds to the frustration, along with everything else that has been mentioned.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
"Ah ha! APES don't read Philosophy!" "Yes they do, Otto, they just don't understand it!"
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
quote: Storm, I am not sure that I consider what I have seen Pelegius do to be "trying" (well, it's trying all right, but not in the sense we meant it [Wink] ). I freely admit that I haven't even read all his posts, much less know anything about the real person, but from what I have seen, he has no interest in improving. He was greeted with much good advice and many good faith attempts to help him communicate and he pointedly ignored them. I specifically remember one thread where he clearly and obviously ignored everyone who was trying to reach out an olive branch and instead focused on the very few, but nonetheless present, hecklers. That is not effort, in my book, and I have made it a personal mission to not feel obliged to those who will not lift a finger to help themselves.
I think Pel was unreasonably treated badly by the vast majority of the people here.
I think few of Pel's posts were rude or deserved the treatment that he got.
I think that's all I'm going to say on the subject. Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
Noemon, a lot of people were in high school when they started here. Myself included! (And right now I'm applying to graduate school. How time flies!) Mr. Funny is still in high school, last I checked.
Pelegius, I wish you luck. When I was younger, I thought I'd possibly be a martyr of sorts someday. I figured I'd burn myself out finding a cure for all the diseases out there. Then I realized that I didn't want to neglect other aspects of being human, like friendship and family. Service to humankind was and is a nice ideal, but I don't wish to neglect my own humanity in the process. Maybe you're destined to be a martyr. But maybe your calling is to be an ordinary human being. And that requires strength, too, to give up the idea of being a sacrificial god and realize that you're just like everyone else.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Launchywiggin: I still stand by my assertion that Pel is intelligent, knowledgeable, and more well-spoken than the majority of high school students.
And if you had said that, I might have agreed. But that's not what you said.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shigosei: Noemon, a lot of people were in high school when they started here. Myself included!
You know, I should have known that but I didn't. You've just had such an adult voice here from day one that I never stopped to think about it.
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jim-Me:
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee:
quote:what the best condiments are to put on hot dogs (ketchup and relish, btw),
Heathen.
Mustard and Saurkraut for me...
Heretic. It's tomato, onion, mayo, ketchup and mustard. Oh, and the bacon. NEVER forget the bacon.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Bacon's good. In Mexico last week, I got crema on my hotdog. Pure delight!
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
Has there been mention of the chili dog, and I just missed it? Cause, chili and onion. MMmmm.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
quote:Originally posted by Storm Saxon: I think Pel was unreasonably treated badly by the vast majority of the people here.
I think few of Pel's posts were rude or deserved the treatment that he got.
I think that's all I'm going to say on the subject.
Then I'll leave it at "I think you're wrong on the first two... especially the second."
Posted by maui babe (Member # 1894) on :
Nasty, nasty, nasty. Ketchup on hot dogs looks like blood. Tastes vile too. Add any vegetables you want but the only spread should be mustard.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
So... who's going to make the YouTube videos of Shatneresque presentations of Pel's posts?
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Pixiest: "Ah ha! APES don't read Philosophy!" "Yes they do, Otto, they just don't understand it!"
"Aristotle was not Belgian. The central principle of Buddhism is not "every man for himself". And the London Underground is not a political movement... Those are all mistakes, Otto. I looked 'em up."
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
quote:Originally posted by Megan: Has there been mention of the chili dog, and I just missed it? Cause, chili and onion. MMmmm.
ew, ew, chili.
I forgot to mention that nacho cheese and canned button mushrooms on that hot dog also taste lovely. Especially if all the other things I mentioned are in there too. Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
Yea, truly, hot dogs, chili dogs, and every other sort of dog-food are an abomination unto me. Even with relish.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
onions, pickles, celery seed, brown mustard, tomato. No ketchup.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Jim: =D
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
Shigosei: Me too! Well, at least, I've been reading/ lurking at Hatrack on and off since high school (note the registration number on this account ). And now I'm halfway through graduate school applications as well. What sort of programs are you applying for, incidentally?
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
When you're listing the incredibly well-spoken and bright youngsters we've had over the years, don't forget :Locke.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Chili dogs are yummy. In my family we make what my mom has long called "swanky frankies" which is a hot dog cut lengthwise, inserted with cheese, wrapped in bacon, and then baked in the oven. I think they call it that because Death by Cholesterol was either less appealing or already taken. Small amounts of onions are okay.
I relish the other condiments, but I can't stand mustard, it just doesn't cut it.
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
It's not so much about how well Peleguis wrote as much as he went after big ideas. He wrestles with giants and losses and losses, even when he doesn't realize it, but he is trying and thinking and he is engaged, and that's a beautiful thing.
Here is a bit from "The Real Thing":
quote:Annie:What gets you about Brodie is he doesn't know his place. You say he can't write like is like a head waiter saying you can't come in here without a tie. Because he can't put words together. What's so good about putting words together?
Henry: It's traditionally considered advantageous for a writer.
Annie: He's not a writer. He is a convict. You're a writer. You writer because you're a writer...You teach a lot of people what to expect from good writing, and you end up with a lot of people saying you write well. Then somebody who isn't in on the game comes along, like Brodie, who really has something to write about, something real, and you can't get through it
It's kind of like that, if you substitute Pel for Brodie. Pel isn't so much a writer, yet, but he is a fledgling thinker and theorist.
[ December 13, 2006, 12:59 AM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jim-Me:
quote:Originally posted by Storm Saxon: I think Pel was unreasonably treated badly by the vast majority of the people here.
I think few of Pel's posts were rude or deserved the treatment that he got.
I think that's all I'm going to say on the subject.
Then I'll leave it at "I think you're wrong on the first two... especially the second."
Ditto.
Given the time and energy many people put into constructive and helpful (or at least potentially so) responses to Pel, I really don't understand your attitude, Stormy.
(Not my posts. I was plenty snarky to Pel, when I didn't simply ignore him. I think he deserved it each time, but that's another story.) But quite a few people carefully and calmly and repeatedly engaged him. I think that deserves respect, not slams.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
And to think I initially ignored this thread because Pel started it.
Pel, I hope you take the advice directed at you in here and the other threads to heart. You could become a valued member of this community if you want.
quote:Originally posted by katharina: If you ever want a community and not an audience, Hatrack will be here.
Yup. Exactly.
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
Tarrsk, I just finished my application to Stanford's Biosciences PhD program. If I get in, that's where I'm going! I'm applying to a few other biology PhD programs on the west coast as backups. How about you?
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
*smites all the non-ketchup-on-hot dog eaters with the Ketchup of Righteousness*
*and a side of the Sauerkraut of Silliness*
Posted by Crown Princess of Pickle Relish (Member # 8019) on :
Come, now, ketchup, there's no reason why we can't work together. Ketchup and Relish could have a beautiful alliance!
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I don't mind people who eat ketchup and relish on theirs. Personally, I like ketchup, relish, mayo, and grilled onions and/or bacon and/or sauerkraut.
It's those who will not eat the ketchup that must be smitten.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
some of us *will* eat ketchup, but prefer the simpler mustard and kraut, or mustard and relish options.
Sometimes kethchup seems... ostentatious.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
*glowers and waves the Ketchup of Righteousness menacingly and OSTENTATIOUSLY*
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shigosei: Tarrsk, I just finished my application to Stanford's Biosciences PhD program. If I get in, that's where I'm going! I'm applying to a few other biology PhD programs on the west coast as backups. How about you?
Wow, how about that? I just submitted my application to the same program about a week ago. I'd bet that we're applying to the same other programs, as well. Although in my case, my current top choice is UCSF, as I like living in a city environment. Either way, it sounds like we'll both be doing the bio PhD thing next year- best of luck!
Posted by Crown Princess of Pickle Relish (Member # 8019) on :
Well, Pickletopia is a constitutional monarchy. I'm largely a figurehead and can't force people to acknowledge the sublime beauty that is pickle relish. Hence, I cannot participate in any smiting.
I can only suggest strongly that people enjoy the loveliness of pickle relish on all appropriate foods (and even on inappropriate foods, if such is their wish).
(The Crown Princess wishes it known that she acknowledges the following hot dog toppings as Superior: Relish, Ketchup, and Cheese, and any combination thereof.)
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
kq, honey, I love ketchup on many, many things. But not on hotdogs. And certainly not on bratwurst.
Posted by Crown Princess of Pickle Relish (Member # 8019) on :
As much as it pains me to say this, mustard is the only condiment that should ever go on bratwurst.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
kraut and relish can both be good on brats in limited quantities...
edit to add: with mustard
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:Originally posted by kmbboots: kq, honey, I love ketchup on many, many things. But not on hotdogs. And certainly not on bratwurst.
*Smites*
Bratwurst is allowable without ketchup (I eat it with mustard and kraut, sometimes grilled onion.) But to deny the ketchupy goodness that is a hot dog drowned in ketchup... Blasphemy!
Let us not even start on those of you who find ketchup on ice cream revolting without even TRYING it.
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
Tarrsk, I've done the city environment thing for awhile (I'm at Arizona State right now). It's good, but I like Stanford's program enough to be willing to live a bit outside the city. Plus, Palo Alto's a nice place, and I'm within reach of a bunch of big cities if I want to visit. Which home program at Stanford did you apply to? I did biological sciences, but also said on the supplemental form that I'd like to do neuroscience and microbiology/immunology.
The grad student I used to work for went to UCSF by the way. I hear their biology program is quite good as well. Good luck to you!
Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :
Hey, on the flipside, David Bowles is back... heh.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Just as Pel leaves . . . . hmmmmm.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Welcome back, DB. It's so nice to see you!
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
Shigosei: I also listed Biological Sciences as my top choice, with Mol/Cell/Dev Bio as my concentration within that program. Microbiology/immunology and cancer biology were my alternate choices.
Posted by maui babe (Member # 1894) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jim-Me: some of us *will* eat ketchup, but prefer the simpler mustard and kraut, or mustard and relish options.
Sometimes kethchup seems... ostentatious.
Nope, Ketchup (except we call it catsup) is just NASTY. Not quite as offensive as mayo, but bad nonetheless.
Posted by Uprooted (Member # 8353) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shigosei: Yea, truly, hot dogs, chili dogs, and every other sort of dog-food are an abomination unto me. Even with relish.
And never in the living room.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*snicker*
I eat my hotdogs and bratwurst NAKED!
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: *snicker*
I eat my hotdogs and bratwurst NAKED!
Kinky!
-pH
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Pssh all this talk of herbs, spices, and sauces does nothing to condiment Pel's legacy!
I can't believe how much you people relish this.
Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :
Oooh, naked bratwurst! Naught, naughty.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by David Bowles: Oooh, naked bratwurst! Naught, naughty.
On second thought, I guess that's not entirely accurate. I do top 'em with cooked onions.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Ooooh, "cooked onions"!!!! *nudge nudge, wink wink*
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
darn you people, all this talk of juicy scrumptious bratwurst as I'm sitting here holding off on lunch until some coworkers get out of meetings... my stomach may well eat itself before long
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
"cooked onions, eh?" HE ASKED HIM KNOWINGLY. Say no more say no more... Say No MORE!
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
A nod's as good as a wink to a blind bat, friend!
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Ketchup is a wonderful invention--perhaps America's finest. But it does not belong on a hotdog. I mean, unless you just don't like hotdogs, and want them to taste like . . . ketchup. Relish, saurkraut, and mayonaise, of course, belong on nothing. As for chili, it's a dish, not a topping.
Mustard, on the other hand, is good on any non-dessert item. You should own a wide variety of mustards, and decide for yourself which variety is best on which food. Or, better yet, divide your food so that you can have a little bit with each type of mustard you possess, and enjoy severalk different flavors in one meal. While pedestrian yellow mustard has its uses--chief among them being hotdogs and pretzels--if that's the only mustard you use, you're a sad, little person.
Posted by Destineer (Member # 821) on :
I think Irami is pretty much right about Pel. Too bad people couldn't take the high ground with him a bit more than they did.
On a lighter note, I'm totally psyched about the Bowles comeback!
Posted by Destineer (Member # 821) on :
Now we just need a hardcore, NAMBLA-style issue for David to sound off on.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:Too bad people couldn't take the high ground with him a bit more than they did.
Too bad he didn't take the high ground with pretty much everyone a bit more than he did.
Sorry. After the tenth time he announced to the world what it is I believed, I stopped giving him the benefit of the doubt.
He's pouted away from two different boards now, each time claiming he was unfairly ganged up on.
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
quote:Originally posted by Destineer: Now we just need a hardcore, NAMBLA-style issue for David to sound off on.
"And here to argue their point, the Association of People Against David Bowles, or NAMBLA."
</jonstewart>
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
quote:Originally posted by Destineer: Too bad people couldn't take the high ground with him a bit more than they did.
There is every reason to believe this would have had absolutely no effect whatsoever.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Never mind. Not getting involved any more.
Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :
LOL @ Tarrsk
Destineer, yeah, I been fishin', brothuh, I been fishin'. Tain't nothin' caught my eye just yet... heh.
Posted by Euripides (Member # 9315) on :
Pel, if you're still reading this, I owe you an apology. I made that Nemesis post, and am sorry I did. I would hate to think that I triggered your leave-taking.
I actually agree with a lot of what you say, and your rhetorical ability is not in question. Your writing is also fine, just grandiose and dramatic.
If you decide to return, I'd be happy to talk and discuss the subjects of interest to you.
If you choose not to return, good luck with your studies.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Morbo: I lurk at ornery on occasion, so I bring you Pelegius's farewell post from that forum.
quote:[partial quote, last paragraph only] It is with a great sense of failure that I write these words, being unable to hold an unpopular position is a sign of weakness, is it not? But I am weak and weary beyond my sixteen years, knowing that my giants, who were not windmills, still stand because I could amass no force against them. And all my speeches were but whispers to the wind. I have not the strength to speak of semantics, feeling much as Tennyson's Ulysses although I cannot say that I leave any Telemachus behind with my scepter and my isle, nor that my strength at any time was great enough to move Earth and Heaven.
Apparently, solipsistic bombast just won't fly there either.
Dude. I want to ACT that post.
I need robes.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
samp: I can usually contain my laughter at work. Not this time though =)
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Something in the Christmas season reminded me of Pelegius and I read through the first page here again.
Now I don't mean to poke fun, but to be honest I miss Pelegius a little bit. Maybe alot. I think I may have thrown down my gauntlet and announced with great heat that Pelegius was the worst poster EVER. But actually I regret that- now I would really really like to meet him and have a conversation.
Bring back Pelegius! I can't believe I'm saying this.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
Has it really been a year? I'm getting old.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: Bring back Pelegius! I can't believe I'm saying this.
Neither can I. Hush, you.
Posted by Flaming Toad on a Stick (Member # 9302) on :
I always liked him. Seemed a pretty cool guy to me.
Posted by Redskullvw (Member # 1549) on :
FWIIW, a similar thread by Pelegius after a year on Ornery.
Posted by Redskullvw (Member # 1549) on :
Pel was interesting. FAR better than the spam-bot attacks we've been getting.
I honestly really liked him. He annoyed me- but so what? I one time stabbed one of my best friends with my keys because he was annoying me, and we're still tight.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
quote:Has it really been a year? I'm getting old.
Holy crumpets, I know. I was looking at the dates on this thread and thinking wow, no way has it been a year, but it's been more than a year. I can't imagine where the time has gone.
Pelegius was only sixteen (she says, with all the weight of almost-22 years ). Maybe he'll come back in a couple of years.
Posted by porcelain girl (Member # 1080) on :
I have been a participating member of the Hatrack community for eight years, and took many breaks throughout. I think don't I posted anything for about two years before my most recent bout of activity. I never thought I'd come back and do more than read the news items, but alas. Here I am.
[ December 31, 2007, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: porcelain girl ]
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
A year is a lot. Pelegius could have changed tons in that time-span. I know that in the last year alone I've done a great deal (but, thinking about it, don't know how much I've changed as person).
Posted by Onanism Thread (Member # 8525) on :
I miss Pelegius so much! He always made me feel so welcome and appreciated. Every thread he ever started seemed like just like me. Without Pel, I'm so lonely.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Seems like there are far more fans of Pel speaking up now then when he threatened to leave. But hey that's just a gut feeling.
Posted by Flaming Toad on a Stick (Member # 9302) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: Seems like there are far more fans of Pel speaking up now then when he threatened to leave. But hey that's just a gut feeling.
What are you trying to imply with this?
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
That the whole conspiracy to get Pel was just that. A conspiracy. One or two hatrackers conspired together to bandwagon and get him - dead. (Virtually speaking). The truth is out there, and is now threatening to come to the surface.
Pel was never disliked or annoying. He was a victim. And the hatrackers that got him out...can get you. And they'll do anything to keep this from becoming public knowledge.
[ December 31, 2007, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: Phanto ]
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
*laugh*
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Phanto, started New Year's celebration a tad early, did we?
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Levels a calm, cool, piercing gaze at phanto.
"alright this is all I can do for you"
:flips coin:
"Call it"
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Flaming Toad on a Stick:
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: Seems like there are far more fans of Pel speaking up now then when he threatened to leave. But hey that's just a gut feeling.
What are you trying to imply with this?
I don't think I implied anything, everything is pretty much on the surface.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
rivka: I had a short celebratory event but am going to be working from now on... darn work!
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
). I freely admit that I haven't even read all his posts, much less know anything about the real person, but from what I have seen, he has no interest in improving. He was greeted with much good advice and many good faith attempts to help him communicate and he pointedly ignored them. I specifically remember one thread where he clearly and obviously ignored everyone who was trying to reach out an olive branch and instead focused on the very few, but nonetheless present, hecklers. That is not effort, in my book, and I have made it a personal mission to not feel obliged to those who will not lift a finger to help themselves.![[Evil]](graemlins/evil.gif)
![[Party]](graemlins/party.gif)