Within the last year or so, I've begun to get the vague impression that there is something called "fanfic" out there (and appears to have been out there for some time now...).
I have now figured out what it is and even visited one or two sites, but so far I haven't seen anything to justify the glowing comments I've seen from some people here. I am assuming that this is because I just haven't so far chanced across anything that didn't read like it was written by a 13-year-old.
So...can someone hook me up with some good fanfic? I'm looking for something interesting, written by someone whose spelling or unusually bad writing/dialogue doesn't completely yank me out of the story, and maybe for starters located in the Harry Potter universe. Though anything else you think I might be interested in is welcome too.
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
*paging rivka*
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Unquestionably, the vast majority of the fanfic out there should be burned. Back in The Good Ol' Days, when you had to pay for bound volumes of the stuff, the bad stuff tended not to go far -- who would pay for it? These days, any idiot with an Internet connection can post their un-proofed, un-beta-read inanities all over the Web.
Therefore, I recommend looking for archive-type sites. Preferably ones which allow readers to rate fics, or which have some type of award process. My favorite fanfic archive does the latter.
As far as HP fanfic, there are others around here with far more experience with it than I. But my favorite is still Anya's Naked Quidditch (warning: some language).
Heehee! It made it into an AP article! Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
*waves*
I'm sending you an email in about ten minutes.
I've only been able to find fanfic I like in the Harry Potter fandom. However, I think that's probably because my other fandoms don't lend themselves to fanfic. I mean, there's a fair share of Lois McMaster Bujold fanfic out there, but who really wants to read Ivan/By?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheTick: *paging rivka*
*laugh* I didn't even see this post until after I'd posted (and edited) mine.
I knew my ears were burning. Posted by Lissande (Member # 350) on :
Reading Naked Quidditch as we type. Well, was reading and will be reading again once I post, to be exact. Keep it coming!
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Most of it is so awful not only ought it to be burned, but also the people who made it.
I just recently started writing Sherlock Holmes fanfic, however. There's not much of it out there, though. I guess it has limited appeal. If you're not me. But the language is a real treat! And I like researching about life in fin de siecle London.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Oh, that does sound like fun. Back in HS I adapted one of the SH short stories into a one-act play with a girlfriend. We never put it on, but I really wanted to BE Sherlock Holmes.
YOu can also look up reccommendation pages for various fandoms on Google.
I suspect that THAT story is pretty good, though I haven't read it.
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
I do NOT allow my (middle school) students to write fanfic. Anymore. This I learned the hard way after wading through like 75 pages of very very bad Harry Potter novella.
By the way, before I made the rule, all the girls were writing themselves into the story as the one who saw the good in Draco Malfoy and changed him. It starts early! Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Oh, their first Mary Sues! *wipes away tear*
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Argh! The Naked Quiddich Match story ends with a link to a page that no longer exists! Help! Is there more? Is it archived somewhere? Ack!
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
:tentatively peers in:
Not that I'm confessing to being an addict or anything, but I found one of the best Harry Potter fics: It's AU (Alternate Universe), massively long, and excellently done.
This is (one of) the author's page(s). I should also include the warnings that it's not for children, particularly beginning in books 4 and on, and also that it's addicting.
Enjoy.
:ducks out before anyone can see her:
Posted by Uindy (Member # 9743) on :
Some HP sites I've found would include www.harrrypotterfanfiction.com,www.mugglenet.com, and some times there on harrypotter.com. Only the last one isn't as good because it brakes down alot. I hope this helps.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
The very first fan fiction I ever read online was a Gargoyles/Batman: TAS/Biker Mice From Mars/Beauty and the Beast (TV Series)/Sailor Moon/Star Trek: The Next Generation crossover.
It was so wonderfully bad. Gloriously bad. "So bad, it's almost GOOD."
I wonder if it's still online? Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
I have a real hard time reading fanfic based on tv shows and movies. Mostly because I have my own opinions of what goes on inside the character's heads it starts to annoy me.
Of course there is nothing worse then getting into a good one, only to have it turn into hardcore erotic fiction.
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
Most fanfic can't be worse than what Kevin J. Anderson does to Star Wars and Dune. Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
quote:Originally posted by Liz B: By the way, before I made the rule, all the girls were writing themselves into the story as the one who saw the good in Draco Malfoy and changed him. It starts early!
EVERY girl that wrote an HP story? Wow.
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheTick: Most fanfic can't be worse than what Kevin J. Anderson does to Star Wars and Dune.
I can manage Star Wars, probably because the professional writers and the online fans both probably have a better feel for the characters then George Lucas.
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
quote: EVERY girl that wrote an HP story? Wow.
Scary, isn't it?? Of course, some of them had to choose between Harry and Draco as their true love.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Oh wow, I totally would have fallen in love with both of the weasley twins, at the same time.
Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :
quote:Originally posted by Stephan:
quote:Originally posted by TheTick: Most fanfic can't be worse than what Kevin J. Anderson does to Star Wars and Dune.
I can manage Star Wars, probably because the professional writers and the online fans both probably have a better feel for the characters then George Lucas.
KJA even butchered characters created by other writers. Posted by ladyday (Member # 1069) on :
Everyone knows that -Harry- discovers the good in Malfoy, and they ride off into the sunset together after defeating Voldemort/converting Lucius to the good side/converting Harry to the bad side/liberating the house elves/making out -a lot-.
*clears throat*
That said, I like Draco redemption stories and think it's possible that's where the books are going...maybe.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
quote:Originally posted by Stephan:
quote:Originally posted by TheTick: Most fanfic can't be worse than what Kevin J. Anderson does to Star Wars and Dune.
I can manage Star Wars, probably because the professional writers and the online fans both probably have a better feel for the characters then George Lucas.
That's how I feel about Harry Potter.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chris Bridges: Argh! The Naked Quiddich Match story ends with a link to a page that no longer exists! Help! Is there more? Is it archived somewhere? Ack!
Oops!!! Yikes, no chapter 10!
Um, all archive links I find leads back to the same defunct page. I may have the entire fic saved somewhere at home -- I'll see what I can do.
Posted by Shmuel (Member # 7586) on :
Sturgeon's Law applies to fanfic as much as it does to any other genre.
I've linked to it here in past threads, but my favorite HP fanfic remains "A Lot to Be Upset About," by Cassandra Claire. The link I used to use is broken, but here's a PDF version, and Google's HTML rendering. (Warning: contains naughty words, adult elements, and complete irreverence toward canon.)
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
quote:Originally posted by blacwolve: That's how I feel about Harry Potter.
Fanfic better then the movies, JK Rowling, or both?
Posted by TL (Member # 8124) on :
Better than Lucas.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Yes, yes. We use "than" for comparison and "then" for reference to time, as in the order of the action.
*resists urge to wash hands repeatedly*
There's a lot out there that might qualify as BTL, I would guess, but maybe not as much as you think.
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
One way I figure out if I want to spend any time at all on a story is to look at the grammar and spelling. if u write like this i dont read ur stuff.
The Star Trek franchise has apparently sanctioned fanfiction in the form of the Strange New Worlds anthologies. I've read one or two and have been reasonably impressed.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Since Star Trek owes its continued existence to fan fiction, I'm glad to see they're still looking for more. But note that the Strange New Worlds series must pass editor muster, unlike the bulk of fan fiction on the Web.
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
Yes, and that's why they're worth looking at--someone else weeded out all the painfully bad stuff. Also, the contest rules specifically prohibit explicit and Mary Sue fiction.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Which is a good thing. While there is some excellent nfic out there, the percentage of horrible tripe is considerably worse than regular fanfic (where it's plenty bad enough).
And I have only ever read 3 or 4 Mary Sues that were even worth finishing -- and at least two were parodies of the genre.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
See, I've always wanted to try a Mary Sue, at least in the sense of writing a character that was recognizably me into a story. I think that would be darned hard to do and NOT suck, which is the appeal, for me. I would do it without the romantic shtuff though.
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
If you are a ST:TNG fan, read in the very least, Snow Falling Softly [/plug]
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Then again, more than a few of the early published Trek novels were clearly Mary Sues...
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
As I understand it, a Mary Sue/Gary Stu fic doesn't -have- to be romantic, so much as the obviously author-insertion fan character becomes the center of that fictional universe...outshining the genuine protagonists, admired (if not loved) by them (or hated and feared, if not loved by the bad guys.)
In other words, it's all about the power and influence the new character grabs.
[ January 19, 2007, 11:11 PM: Message edited by: Puffy Treat ]
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
I'm sure there are a lot of Marty/Mary Sues in legitimate fiction, too. Brian Wilson Aldiss Marty-Sued himself right into bed with Mary Shelley in Frankenstein Unbound (just an example that came to my attention recently).
I guess it's not that big a deal. *shrug*
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Well, I wouldn't call -all- author-insertion fiction a "Mary Sue"...there are certain watermarks that separate author-inspired characters from "The Greatest New Pal the other characters ALL think is cool!"
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
I think it's interesting to think about what characters on episodic TV shows do when they're not out saving the world/fighting the Borg/tearing holes in the space-time continuum. Most of the time that sort of thing isn't interesting or coherent enough to make an episode about, but it's still fun to wonder what happens during the night shift on the Enterprise, or what goes on when SG-1 goes to a supposedly safe, uninhabited world and it turns out to be exactly as advertised.
Sometimes mundane things that are part of our everyday lives don't pop up on shows unless there's a plot reason for it. Someday, I want to see at least a reference to a bathroom on the Enterprise! I want to see someone get a cold that doesn't turn out to be an exotic virus that threatens the entire ship or an entire planet! Yes, a whole episode dealing with those things would be boring. But it might be nice to throw in a reference once in awhile.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shigosei: Sometimes mundane things that are part of our everyday lives don't pop up on shows unless there's a plot reason for it. Someday, I want to see at least a reference to a bathroom on the Enterprise! I want to see someone get a cold that doesn't turn out to be an exotic virus that threatens the entire ship or an entire planet! Yes, a whole episode dealing with those things would be boring. But it might be nice to throw in a reference once in awhile.
There was an episode of ST: TOS where a woman -locked- herself in the bathroom. But that's the only reference I can recall off the top of my head.
ST: TNG had that memorable "The Lower Decks" episode, in which some of the nameless extra Enterprise crewmen were finally revealed to have lives of their own. Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: Well, I wouldn't call -all- author-insertion fiction a "Mary Sue"...there are certain watermarks that separate author-inspired characters from "The Greatest New Pal the other characters ALL think is cool!"
Yeah, butthen it becomes a slippery thing instead of a clearly-defined thing. If writing yourself into a story isn't Mary Sue-ing (yay for the freedom to create words! Nyah) unless it meets certain criteria, and those criteria are subjective (poorly written, character too cool to be real or saves the day) then the definition is meaningless. (Edit: Though I would argue that the protagonist in Frankenstein Unbound is almost definitely a Marty Stu of the first order, by even the most flexible definitions.)
Is it not a Mary Sue if the character is flawed but still saves the day/boinks the favorite character? What if the character is implausibly perfect but ends up bringing disaster?
I like my neat little boxes, dangit!
That said, I may have read some author-insertion fic that would not qualify as a Mary Sue by those standards. The writer is a therapist, and wrote a story about having certain famous characters come to her for help, but she described herself as old and comfortably plump. She didn't hook up with anybody, though she did (rather amusingly) guide them through certain problematic issues in a realistic way (not a hokey miracle cure). She called it a Mary Sue, though.
[ January 20, 2007, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: Olivet ]
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I write fanfic screenplays for movies that should have been better. I do not share them with people. Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
I agree with Olivet that adding necessary criteria works against defining Mary Sues. I think "self-insertion as a character" is perfectly and fair. You can subcategorize it from there if you'd like, just like any trend in fanfiction.
I have a certain fondness for Mary Sues. My first fic ever was a Mary Sue and I think its good that artists go ahead and write those stories if only to get them out of their system and maybe get some writing practice. Publishing them online is also a great way to figure out if a person can hack the inevitable negative reviews they're bound to get for the rest of their fic writing hobbying.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
I don't think of self-insertation as a Mary Sue. I think of a Mary Sue as a character that is too good to be true, loved by all, etc. Not so much a self-insertation, as wish-fulfillment.
I just started reading a published book that had a blatant Mary Sue in it, so they aren't confined to the fanfiction world.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
I have had some Star Trek stories knocking around in my head for years (no, not the Mary Sue variety. OK, yes, those too, but I would never write those down)and recently discovered Strange New Worlds. I'm trying to work up my courage now.
[ January 20, 2007, 06:51 PM: Message edited by: romanylass ]
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
mack, I'm reading Snow Falling Softly now and I really enjoy it Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lissande: So...can someone hook me up with some good fanfic? I'm looking for something interesting, written by someone whose spelling or unusually bad writing/dialogue doesn't completely yank me out of the story, and maybe for starters located in the Harry Potter universe. Though anything else you think I might be interested in is welcome too.
If you liked Buffy, there's a great virtual sequel called Watchers, which is in the middle of its 4th season.
Posted by PrometheusBound (Member # 10020) on :
By far the best fanfic is parody. Winces remembering über-serious LotR piece from seventh-grade existence. Yeah, here it is:
If you think this is bad, you will find much worse. Hard to imagine and harder still to stomach, I know.
Posted by Princesska (Member # 8954) on :
I don't understand this "Mary Sue" thing. If you're a good writer, you should be able to get inside the head of any character in your work; you shouldn't have to overtly insert yourself. If I wanted to focus on myself, I'd look at a mirror, not write some bad fic and push it on everyone else.
Which brings me to a shameless plug... Two Idiot Farmboys, a Star Wars/ Smallville crossover comedy. It was written as the final assignment for a college-level Creative Writing class. As such, it was reviewed by the entire class, including one girl who'd never watched either movie/show but laughed anyway. It has gone through multiple drafts. It could still be crap, but at least it's gramatically correct crap.
There's also Bizarre Love Triangle. Not as polished as the other story, but there are thematic similarities. Lex Luthor is still horny, Clark Kent is still dense, and Lana Lang still exists for the sole purpose of me making fun of her. She's just such a blank boring slate!
Posted by JaneX (Member # 2026) on :
The best Harry Potter fic I've come across is Darkness Dying. It follows the Marauders from just before Harry's birth to just after Voldemort's fall, and gives some very plausible explanations of what was going through their heads at the time and why they acted the way they did. It also contains believable (and quite amusing) depictions of the dynamic between the four friends.
In case you hadn't guessed from that description, for me good fanfic is all about believability. You can have the characters do whatever you want - as long as they stay true to the way they are in the canon.
~Jane~
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I used to dabble a bit in fanfic. I never liked adding my own characters, or doing crazy stuff with them either. I wrote a few NCIS stories basically as episodes ("case files"), where it was more about the mystery and some character interactions than it was about the crazy crap that could hypothetically happen.
I wrote some LOTR parody stuff too, but it was kicked off fanfiction.net for being in script format.
I lost track of the idea really fast. It's far more fun to create your own characters than to basically character stalk someone else's work.
Posted by MidnightBlue (Member # 6146) on :
Has anyone managed to find Chapter 10 yet? I made the mistake of starting to read it, and now I'm dying to find out what happens!
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
Every time I've read it, it's ended with chapter 9. Did the page you read it on have the game? Or are you looking for the "full coverage by daisygrrl"?
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Lisa, it is your fault I wasted yesterday evening.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by breyerchic04: Lisa, it is your fault I wasted yesterday evening.
<grin> Isn't it great, though? Did you start with Interlude (the bridge between Buffy and Watchers)?
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
I think I missed Interlude, I'll look. I really only read the first two.
Posted by Jhai (Member # 5633) on :
My favorite place to find Harry Potter fanfiction is here. It's a forum where people post requests for good stories of one type or another...
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chris Bridges: Then again, more than a few of the early published Trek novels were clearly Mary Sues...
Sadly too true. *cough*BlackFire*cough*
quote:Originally posted by blacwolve: I don't think of self-insertion as a Mary Sue. I think of a Mary Sue as a character that is too good to be true, loved by all, etc. Not so much a self-insertion, as wish-fulfillment.
Agreed.
quote:Originally posted by blacwolve: Every time I've read it, it's ended with chapter 9. Did the page you read it on have the game? Or are you looking for the "full coverage by daisygrrl"?
When I first read it, that full coverage existed. However, that was probably three years ago.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
rivka- I vaguely remember the full coverage. I think it was very badly written and I only read it the first time through. I didn't even try the link the other times I read it, so I don't know when it went down. I think the story ends perfectly well where Anya left it at the end of the Quidditch match.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I honestly don't remember much. I do think I recall a tenth chapter. Details are fuzzy.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
*pat pat*
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*bite*
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
quote:Originally posted by Companion_in_Training: I'm not on this board much, I just happen to glance in on what's happening every so often. I much prefer livejournal, because a lot of the time, a large majority of the posters on here come off as self-righteous or outright snobby. I'm not trying to start a fight. I'm just saying that it sounds like most of you are adults reading Harry Potter fanfiction. The fandom is largely directed towards children, so it's understandable that there is such a vast selection of Mary Sues and other badly written material. But I think these people deserve the chance to write what they please in peace without being so cruelly bashed.
On livejournal, people comment on fanfiction with helpful, constructive criticisms. No one likes bad writing, but these people don't deserve such ridicule.
*blinks* You're involved in a totally different section of the Harry Potter livejournal community than I am. The one I participate in is most definately directed toward adults. The bashing I've seen there makes the criticisms made here seem nice in comparison.
I do agree with you, though, I don't why everyone seems to find the bad fanfiction out there so offensive. Why concentrate on the bad stuff when there's so much good stuff? It's not hurting you in any way, let the kids have fun.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
I will just chime in to "ditto" blackwolve.
Also, I think the criticism is harsher when the fanfic in question is directed at adults, which is probably as it should be.
There are plenty of communities for people to show their work, but if you want to improve your writing ability, workshops are going to be your best bet in the long run. The caveat being that you have to be savvy about criticism. You have to take it, and you have to be able to tell the difference between what is helpful and what is not helpful.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
:insert snarky, anti-fanfic comment here:
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
quote: I much prefer livejournal, because a lot of the time, a large majority of the posters on here come off as self-righteous or outright snobby. I'm not trying to start a fight. I'm just saying that it sounds like most of you are adults reading Harry Potter fanfiction. The fandom is largely directed towards children, so it's understandable that there is such a vast selection of Mary Sues and other badly written material. But I think these people deserve the chance to write what they please in peace without being so cruelly bashed.
The thing about us is, we're equal-opportunity bashers. We just don't like bad writing around here, regardless of who wrote it. The fact that you're writing for children is no excuse for bad writing, especially since I happen to be one person who believes that those who write for children and young adults need to be as talented, if not MORE than those who write for adults.
If someone doesn't like harsh criticism, there is a simple solution - don't post stuff in a public forum. Olivet is right - if you want to improve your writing you have to be willing and able to take criticism of your work without taking it personally.
Last semester I was writing a term paper on Othello. My class was divided into peer groups that read and commented on each other's papers. We were to read and write our comments and then pass them around. One girl was positively brutal - she would write things like "Well, DUH! of course this idea is not new - it's been written about in Shakespeare!" and other similar comments. Most of the people in our group got upset by her manner, I was the only one who didn't because I'm used to criticism and did as Olivet suggested and knew when to take the worth of what she was saying and ignore the other. Some people ignored her comments altogether because they made them uncomfortable. Big mistake. She was the best critiquer in the group.
Everything she noticed were things that made my paper weaker. When I fixed them, the paper was much stronger. You know what else? That prof only gave out four A's on the final term papers, the harsh critiquer and I were two of them.
Now, the point of the story is this. As a writer, you have to be able to not take criticism personally and look for the helpful information and use it. If you understand that it's really about the work, and not you, you can see it as the reader does. I'm certain that her reaction to my comment that the subject matter of spousal homicide wasn't new was, in fact, "Duh!" It was an inane comment for me to make and when I removed it the paper was stronger for it. If I were so offended by the "Duh!" that I lost the message, that would have been my loss indeed.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
And we're not just bashing bad fanfic, we're also bashing the bad early Star Trek novels
"I write fanfic screenplays for movies that should have been better. I do not share them with people."
I do! Although I stick with synopses, and post 'em here...
[ January 22, 2007, 02:18 PM: Message edited by: Chris Bridges ]
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
And I wanted to add...give me the harsh critiquer who will say "Duh! Belle, that's an idiotic statement" over the one who notices the same thing and says "Oh, I loved your paper I'm sure you'll get a good grade." I'd much rather the person willing to offend me than the one so afraid of hurting anyone's feeling he/she never says anything bad about anything.
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
I'm confused. How is commenting in this thread about fanfic (good and bad, by the way) bashing or ridicule? If I'm a writer of derivative, badly-written Harry Potter fanfic, do I come to a Hatrack thread about fanfic for my critiques and responses?
(Edit for spelling!)
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Exactly. Some of the best critiques come from people who genuinely do not care if they give offense. Me, I try to soften the blows as much as possibe, but still be honest. I do not always adequately soften, but I'm always honest.
With Ty's permission, I once put a story we worked on together on a workshop for critique. I had to do it under my account, but I listed in bold on the author notes that it was a collaboration with Ty. (I had to ask the workshop people how to post collaborative efforts because their software did not support dual authorship lists.) He wrote the male character, and I wrote the part that concerned the female character.
Well, some guy saw that it was posted by an author with a very feminine name, and went off about how unrealistic the male character was, no real man would do X Y or Z. Also, he must have been skimming because he totally missed the part where somebody died.
In deciding what was helpful about that critique, I read a few others the fellow had written, and realized he had gone around telling authors that had not-obviously-male names that their male characters were pussies. He told one fellow (who happened to be a marine himself, but posted works under innitials only) that his marines were all wrong, real marines don't talk like that.
So, I decided that Ty's character was fine and the guy had an axe to grind. The fact that he had obviously skimmed the story turned out to be helpful, though. So, even though the guy was a clueless jerk, his impressions were still useful.
Fanfic is good for really throwing the hammer down and blowing the carbon out of your engine, but it isn't a great way to hone your craft. Some people may have found it so, but I say they are the exception, not the rule.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Originally posted by Companion_in_Training: Belle and Olivet, sorry but your rants and personal experiences bored the hell out of me so I just had to skip most of your posts.
quote:I have taken several writing courses. I know how to offer a helpful critique.
Ah, I can see that. Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
quote:Originally posted by Companion_in_Training: Belle and Olivet, sorry but your rants and personal experiences bored the hell out of me so I just had to skip most of your posts. It seems like a lot of you missed the points I was trying to make. Let me make it simple.
First of all, the Harry Potter fandom contains characters that are, in fact, children or teenagers. I know there are AUs and whatnot where the characters are older, but the fact is, the books are directed towards children. There shouldn't even be fanfiction for adults. Adult fanfiction is usually just an excuse for porn, which, hey, to each their own, but don't call it brilliant work.
I'm sorry, I thought you were trying to be a constructive member of the community. My mistake.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Supernatural? I think I know someone who writes in that fandom, though I think she mostly does spatter/gore stuff, or stories about how Dean comes to realize that Sam is teh only person he'll ever love (not THAT way, and shame on you for thinking so!)
*snort* People try to answer your post with thoughtful responses and you respond that you can't be arsed to read them? Though I confess I wasn't talking to you, so it's all good.
Firefox SOOO has a plug-in for that!
Also, if adults didn't read Harry Potter, J.K. Rowling would only be about a tenth as rich as she is. *shrug* I've only read a few HP fanfics that people with taste reccommended *waves at blackwolve* so I wouldn't know how badly most of sucks.
It's free to suck all it wants-- I'm not stopping it. I don't get what warrants this level of hissy-fit, though. I really don't.
But feel free to stamp your foot, or whatever. I don't care to stop you any more than I care to stop the legion of Mary Sues lining up to snog Draco Malfoy. *giggles*
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by blacwolve: I'm sorry, I thought you were trying to be a constructive member of the community. My mistake.
A response far better than the drivel which prompted it.
CIT, adults shouldn't write fanfic, and when they do it's all smut? *snort*
My child, you really should get out more. If you'd like, I can direct you to several online fanfic communities where the majority of the writers are over the age of 20, but most of the fic is rated PG or below.
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
quote:First of all, the Harry Potter fandom contains characters that are, in fact, children or teenagers. I know there are AUs and whatnot where the characters are older, but the fact is, the books are directed towards children. There shouldn't even be fanfiction for adults. Adult fanfiction is usually just an excuse for porn, which, hey, to each their own, but don't call it brilliant work.
And I agree with Olivet. If Harry Potter was for children readers because the main characters have yet to reach their 20s, then every book with a female protagonist should only be read by women. Of course, from the third book on we are dealing with teenage characters who face very complex issues and experience some pretty horrifying events. Many parents have kept their children from reading the series with the more violent and disturbing scenes in recent books. Besides, there are still plenty of adult characters with their own stories.
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
Children are complex people, too, and their stories can be just as interesting as the stories of adults. I read stories about adults when I was a child, and I read stories about children now.
quote:Belle and Olivet, sorry but your rants and personal experiences bored the hell out of me so I just had to skip most of your posts...
What I was saying about criticism is that people should post constructive comments, instead of just saying "this blows, never write again". Even if it doesn't seem like it, these people have put time and effort into this writing, try pointing out what's good and what doesn't work.
I think my irony meter blew a gasket.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
CIT:
I didn't see Olivet or Belle rant.
Though I don't write fanfiction, I agree with Belle and Olivet's comments on critiquing. A mamby-pamby, "You're story is very vivid" critique is worth nothing. An exacting critique that points out where the story fails to engage, fails to be believable, and fails to be clear is as valuable as a month of typing.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Does your teacher really let you surf the web during class, or are you one of those students who sits in the back of the class tapping away and thinking s/he doesn't notice?
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:Trust me, once I'm out of high school, my online time will be greatly limited.
I trust you and wish you the very best.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
*gently
We all have lives. We just come here to talk, and we are generally willing to talk to anyone who comes by. We strive, as a community, to treat young people with respect, regardless of their age.
If you don't like it here, you shouldn't be here, C_i_T. It isn't pathetic to be here, but it is pathetic to act as if someone is making you be here when it makes you unhappy.
There is a wealth of other places to spend your time online if you are bored. If you'd tell us what you want to be reading (other than us), maybe we can help you find it elsewhere more quickly.
Do you want to read new fanfiction instead? What type? Are you interested in science news, or music, or religion? What areas? What would make you happier to read? We can help find it for you.
[ January 23, 2007, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Companion, I was not aware of ever arguing with you. Adults do come here to discuss things, but we are all more than willing to accept each poster by the content of their posts not their ages.
I have been very impressed and surprised to find out that posters here whose opinions and passionate discussions I have grown to respect have, in fact, been minors.
I would not have guessed you were younger, before the recent drama. *shrug* Hurling insults, trying to make people feel bad for arguing harshly with a child (when we didn't know you were a child before the tantrum, and didn't argue with you as far as I could tell) are only damaging to the way you are seen here, and that is just sad.
We would like to get to know you, and talk without regard to age, but I promise you that childish behavior would get the same reaction, even when posted by old folks.
I know, because I had a few dramas early on. I was a new mother in a strange city, looking for people to talk to, and a place like Hatrack can be confusing to anyone new.
But give us a chance to get to know the bright, kind person that you are underneath, and I'm sure we'll be glad of it. Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Olivet speaks for herself. And maybe some others. *I* don't care.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Companion_in_Training: Okay, let me get to the real matter at hand. You are all adults and it's pathetic that you don't have any lives of your own to go out and live and that instead you spend your time arguing with a "child" on message boards and reading fanfiction. Trust me, once I'm out of high school, my online time will be greatly limited. I'm only here out of sheer boredom during class right now.
We don't care that you're a child. We care that you're acting like one.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
I feel like I say this at least once every three or four months, but CT, I love you. Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
I just want to say that I am amazed, and a little dissapointed at how civil everyone is being to CiT. After reading her first couple of posts I was excited about the inevitable stomping that would ensue. And it never came! She blatantly insulted almost everyone in this thread, and yet, you're all being so civil and trying to get along... no fun, no fun at all! Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
:devours vonk:
It's been a year coming. Sorry it took so long.
Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
Gah! I thought I'd escaped. Well, now I want some cheese fries I guess.
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
<---- very immature grownup
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Oh, me too, Liz. I'm just trying to follow CT's stellar example. Being nice to people is kinda...itchy.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shigosei: Children are complex people, too, and their stories can be just as interesting as the stories of adults. I read stories about adults when I was a child, and I read stories about children now.
quote:Belle and Olivet, sorry but your rants and personal experiences bored the hell out of me so I just had to skip most of your posts...
What I was saying about criticism is that people should post constructive comments, instead of just saying "this blows, never write again". Even if it doesn't seem like it, these people have put time and effort into this writing, try pointing out what's good and what doesn't work.
I think my irony meter blew a gasket.
See, I assumed that the irony was intentional. The execution seemed a little clumsy, but I assumed that CiT was planning, after people squawked in outrage, to say "see? How do you like it when people are harsh in their critiques of something you've written".
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
I'm fairly certain that violates the TOS. Not to say that parts of it weren't amusing and all, but maybe you should edit before the whistle gets blown.
That's a bit much, dude.
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
Man, it's been a long time since I've seen a troll.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Yeah, I just called my own personal trolls and they aren't it.
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
Whistle has been blown, in case anyone is reaching for the button.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
Looks more like a spambot than a troll. Also, I whistled it first, when I saw the "Prince Caspian" thread. Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
::thumbs up::
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
You know what amuses me about this whole thing? Some wee grrl got her feelings hurt because we laughed about bad Mary Sues, taking something not at all directed at her in any way and having a hissy fit about it. When we didn't grovel before her and beg forgiveness for something we didn't actually do, suddenly the trolls appear.
I hope she lets us know when her episode Sweet Sixteen airs. *giggle*
Posted by The Droog (Member # 10128) on :
yo, don't make fun of bush. you try bein president if you think its that easy. thats right you cant, mr jelous
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
George? Is that you?
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
*snorfle*
Icky wins.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*snicker* Indeed.
And I missed the troll! Alas. *weeps*
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Ic, I love you. Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
No one ever criticised your writing, dear. This is a pro fanfic thread- as positive about fanfic as Hatrack gets, since the author whose site this is detests it.
It probably is best that you don't post here if it makes so unhappy (and if you do it at school, when you should be doing school stuff.
Sorry, for implying the troll was a friend of yours. Someone suggested it, and it seemed plausible, but I did jump to the conclusion hastily. My bad.
If you email the janitor he can probably delete your account. You can edit any personal information out of your profile yourself, and delete your posts, if you wish.
Feel free to stick around if you like, though. I don't believe anyone honestly meant to hurt your feelings.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Seriously, this thread is astonishingly positive about fan fiction. Short of a fan fiction forum, you would not find a friendlier write-up of fan fiction anywhere.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Wow. Look at what I miss when I don't read a thread. Will there be more? I'd like to know so I can break out the popcorn.
quote:I didn't get my feelings hurt and I would hardly call what I said a "hissy fit". We obviously have very different opinions on this subject, but I presented a reasonable argument I think. I may have been overstepping it by calling people pathetic, but I didn't appreciate the condescending tone that many of you responded with beforehand.
You insulted people. Insults do not constitute reasonable arguments. And yes, you did overstep by insulting people. If you do that here, you won't be highly regarded.
If you want to present and/or defend an argue, try using logic. Keep the insults and name calling out of it. You might find you get better results or at least some sympathy.
And from what I read on this thread, your posts were the only ones that were condescending.
However, if, as you say you aren't returning, then none of this matters. If you do decide to return, though, and you can, then learn to play nice.
***
I'm not in the fanfic community - neither reading nor writing - so y'all talk about Mary Sues and I have no idea what is meant. Would someone care to explain?
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Well, you know, they do discuss and debate the meaning of the word right here! Sounds like it's when an author writes herself into a story as a character, typically for some sort of ego gratification.
-o-
Kurt Vonnegut wrote himself into Slaughterhouse Five. He appears in a military latrine, IIRC, complaining that he's going to crap his brains out. Would you call that a "Marty Sue"?
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Mary Sues are (I think) characters added in to an ongoing story who are extra-super smart, and beautiful, and just gosh darn so all-around awesome that all the main characters become starry-eyed about them, and plotlines start revolving around them, and all the main characters are talking about how wonderful they are all the time. So, yes, wish-fulfillment self-insertion.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
In my circles I've always heard a male wish-fulfillment character called "Gary Stu."
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
It might have to do with the fandom, I too am more familar with "Gary Stu"
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I've heard both, but neither frequently. Most of the fandoms I read are predominated by female authors.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Cool. Thanks! That was what I thought, but it's nice to have it confirmed. Posted by Lissande (Member # 350) on :
o_O the drama. I'm glad I have Hatrack around to be nicer than me.
I've appreciated everyone's comments explaining why they like (or don't like) fanfiction.
Posted by The Droog (Member # 10128) on :
Doctor: Hello Joe. How are you. Joe: What has happened, Doctor? Doctor: Did you hear about that car accident across the road? Joe: WHAT'S HAPPENED??? Doctor: I have some tragic news about your wife, and about your life-threatening disease. Joe: WHAT IS IT????? Doctor: I'm afraid to say that...
EVERYONE WILL KNOW YOU DIED SCRATCHING MY BALLS!!!
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
These days, any idiot with an Internet connection can post their un-proofed, un-beta-read inanities all over the Web.![[Laugh]](graemlins/laugh.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)