This is for all the english majors / church goin folk if your out there but anyways . .
I have been reading the divine comedy and it has shown Virgil as being a virtous pagan, he knew christ was coming but was born just before the cut so he couldnt make it into heaven, then on some other post a while back i thought i heard something about christ sacrafice spanning all time . . . im not sure where this was so dont ask for a link but I remember a conversation somewhere . . . anyways i know dante was devoutly christian so i dont think he would have got it wrong . .my question did all those born before jesus get sent to hell as they didnt have the luck of being born a century later?
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote: my question did all those born before jesus get sent to hell as they didnt have the luck of being born a century later?
I'm pretty loath to speak for God.
But from my understanding of the scriptures that is simply not the case as demonstrated by Jesus being cited by Peter as teaching the gospel to the people who died in the great flood.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I don't see how answering his question would be speaking for God any more than any statement of doctrine.
To answer it, I'll say that in the LDS Church, we believe that anybody who didn't have the chance to accept the gospel of Jesus Christ on earth will have a chance to do so in the next life.
Posted by SenojRetep (Member # 8614) on :
quote:Originally posted by I Am The War Chief: my question did all those born before jesus get sent to hell as they didnt have the luck of being born a century later?
quote:The concept of the limbo of the fathers (limbus patrum) is that people who lived good lives but died before Jesus' Resurrection did not go to heaven, but rather had to wait for Christ to open heaven's gates. This concept of limbo affirms that one can get into heaven only through Jesus Christ but doesn't portray Moses, etc., as being punished eternally in hell.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
The bible references Jesus "preaching to the souls in Prison" in one of Peter's epistles, I believe. Also some of the early creeds stated that Jesus "descended into hell". Often interpreted as being for the purpose of reaching those who died before him.
Dante has some great ideas and wonderful imagery, but he is not your best source for Roman Catholic doctrine. Not an especially bad source, mind you, but The Divine Comedy isn't a Catechism.
Edit: and yes, that whole Limbo thing up there... though Limbo isn't, I believe, a doctrine-- more of a theory.
Posted by Sibyl (Member # 10079) on :
quote:Originally posted by I Am The War Chief: This is for all the english majors / church goin folk if your out there but anyways . .
I have been reading the divine comedy and it has shown Virgil as being a virtous pagan, he knew christ was coming but was born just before the cut so he couldnt make it into heaven, then on some other post a while back i thought i heard something about christ sacrafice spanning all time . . . im not sure where this was so dont ask for a link but I remember a conversation somewhere . . . anyways i know dante was devoutly christian so i dont think he would have got it wrong . .my question did all those born before jesus get sent to hell as they didnt have the luck of being born a century later?
First: Devout Christians can get things wrong, they do it all the time. Even The Church can get things wrong.
But different parts of The Church have different doctrines on this matter, and other parts say, basically, "We don't know".
Remember, _before_ he was Crucified and Resurrected, Jesus told the parable about Lazarus and Dives, with Lazarus "resting in the bosom of Abraham", which surely looked Heavenly, and Dives in Sheol, which did not. Long before Jesus was born, Job (or the writer of Job), inspired by God, said "I know that my Redeemer liveth, and will stand at the latter day upon the earth." "MY (Job's) Redeemer.
It is my belief that the Sacrifice of Christ spans all time, and that when He Ascended, he took his human body with Him into Eternity, outside of Time, where there is no sequence, thus could deal with _all_ at the same "time".
Posted by Evie3217 (Member # 5426) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: I don't see how answering his question would be speaking for God any more than any statement of doctrine.
To answer it, I'll say that in the LDS Church, we believe that anybody who didn't have the chance to accept the gospel of Jesus Christ on earth will have a chance to do so in the next life.
mph, I think that's a very enlightened way to think about it. I know that a lot of other religions, even if you didn't have the chance, you'll still be sent to hell. I didn't think that any other religions did that. I know that my opinion of heaven and hell extends beyond religions (basically I believe that if you're a good person, you'll get into heaven no matter which religion you subscribe to), but I thought I was one of the few who thought that.
Edit to say that I know I didn't phrase that well, but I have a hard time articulating my thoughts about religion.
Posted by I Am The War Chief (Member # 9266) on :
I recognize the idea of limbo but in Dante jesus came down and saved these virtous pagans by building them a castle, so they were in a lesser ring of hell no torture or pain just abcense of god. He let them come right up to the pearly gates but then then st pete gave it a no go, hell is for those who dont recognize what they have done is wrong and if they do realize they are allowed up to purgatory, purgatory is for those wondering how they could fix it, virgil was a good guy and on easter jesus came down and did this for him but it still bugs me that these guys couldnt be ascended.
EDIT - the last level of hell is researved for people who cannot be forgiven as they chose to do evil instead of ignoring good in general
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
You do realize that Dante isn't considered a theological authority, right? Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
quote:I know that a lot of other religions, even if you didn't have the chance, you'll still be sent to hell.
Which religions would those be?
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
dkw, I'd guess the ones that believe in those Chic Tract thingies. I mean everyone goes to Hell in those, and I certainly wouldn't call it Christianity.
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