...ugh. They're turning the Stanton family dysfunctional?
Now I'm wondering which of those other rumors about extreme plot/character changes will prove to be true. Posted by SenojRetep (Member # 8614) on :
quote:...a series of mysterious clues, some dating back to the founding of Britain and others going all the way back to biblical times
This sounds to me like its just going to be a mash-up of all the books. Or worse, a complete disregard for all but the "spirit" of the books, a la Earthsea.
And, yeah, "an edgy young man with piercings and tattoos who questions their father's authority" sounds like the focus could be shifted from Will's self-discovery to, well, some teenage angst film. Feels completely wrong to me.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by SenojRetep:
quote:...a series of mysterious clues, some dating back to the founding of Britain and others going all the way back to biblical times
This sounds to me like its just going to be a mash-up of all the books. Or worse, a complete disregard for all but the "spirit" of the books, a la Earthsea. .
How so? The quest for the Signs -did- involve all that in book two.
It's the "angry, angsty older brother" stuff that doesn't fit. Posted by SenojRetep (Member # 8614) on :
Well, my first thought upon reading "biblical times" is that they're going to bring the grail in, which IIRC was completely absent from TDIR. There are biblical elements, however, in OSUS and GW.
Anyway, the description makes it sound like a mystical "Da Vinci Code." With an angst older brother. Bah.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
The Grail of the Light has no connection to the Holy Grail.
Not in the books, anyway.
I know whoever wrote the 'Dark is Rising' wikipedia article claims they're the same grail, but Cooper herself never makes or even implies a connection. She goes out of her way to make it clear the Old Ones and the Dark have no connection to the forces of "good" and "evil" seen in Judeo-Christian beliefs and traditions.
I think the reference to "biblical" times means the historical timespan covered by Will as he learns Old One magic and seeks the Signs. He goes pretty far back.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
quote: It's the "angry, angsty older brother" stuff that doesn't fit.
While it does trouble me, too, as the love in the family is delightful to read in the book, it's not a complete deal breaker, depending on how they do it.
quote: I know whoever wrote the 'Dark is Rising' wikipedia article claims they're the same grail, but Cooper herself never makes or even implies a connection. She goes out of her way to make it clear the Old Ones and the Dark have no connection to the forces of "good" and "evil" seen in Judeo-Christian beliefs and traditions.
I actually just reread the series and, while I don't recall anything in there about any religions, I believe she does mention that humans make up stuff that is just an echo of rumors of things that the Old Ones/Lords of the Dark have done.
P.S. After rereading the series, if I were Hawkin, I probably would have gone over to the dark, too.
Posted by SenojRetep (Member # 8614) on :
quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: The Grail of the Light has no connection to the Holy Grail.
Not in the books, anyway.
I know whoever wrote the 'Dark is Rising' wikipedia article claims they're the same grail, but Cooper herself never makes or even implies a connection.
Well and good, but Dark is Rising is at its core Arthurian, and the Arthurian grail, if not originally the Holy Grail, has at least been conflated with it for several centuries.
I guess the assertion of "biblical times" being "time period of the bible, except in Britain" would be alright, but that's not the way I would use the phrase. In my experience, biblical times means biblical setting, which means (to me) creation of material completely external to the books. This is reinforced in the original quote where it says that some clues "dat[e] back to the founding of Britain and others go all the way back to biblical times" insinuating that the "founding of Britain" is more recent that "biblical times."
I find it all very disheartening. But I hope to be heartened by future developments.
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
*Keeps fingers crossed* Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I love the guy playing the Rider, and think he will be perfectly creepy and menacing. Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by SenojRetep: Well and good, but Dark is Rising is at its core Arthurian, and the Arthurian grail, if not originally the Holy Grail, has at least been conflated with it for several centuries.
It's never stated in any of the book the book the Grail of the Light is the Holy Grail, period. Implicitly or explicitly. Arthurian characters -are- used, but you well know that it's in an extremely revisionist sense, not the traditional sense. Just sayin'. Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by Storm Saxon: I actually just reread the series and, while I don't recall anything in there about any religions, I believe she does mention that humans make up stuff that is just an echo of rumors of things that the Old Ones/Lords of the Dark have done.
Book two talks about human religion and its irrelevance to the conflict between the Light & Dark in some detail.
It's the Arthurian myths that are called "echoes", but I suppose it could be inferred that she means religions as well, at least in that setting. Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
quote: Book two talks about human religion and its irrelevance to the conflict between the Light & Dark in some detail.
Huh. I do not recall this.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Yeah, that is what it said, in more than one place. But it didn't ring true to me....
A church (CoE church too, not even concecrated ground)was a defense against the dark, the grail of light being mirroed so closely by the grail in Aurthrian legend, with it's ties to the Holy Grail.....
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
A church (CoE church too, not even concecrated ground)was a defense against the dark,
The Signs of the Old Ones on Will's belt and the spell he and his Old Ones wove were the protection. Cooper made a point that that the church and the minister were completely helpless in that scene.
the grail of light being mirroed so closely by the grail in Aurthrian legend, with it's ties to the Holy Grail.....
There's a grail in Arthurian legend. There's the legends of the Holy grail. And there's the Grail of the Light. While the first two are tied by myth, legend, and tradition, Cooper never forges a connection between the third and either of the former.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
*cries*
You know how perfect this book could be if they stuck to the plot?
However, I do like the idea of Eccleston as the Rider.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by Teshi: *cries*
You know how perfect this book could be if they stuck to the plot?
Fortunately, the film won't change the book. Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
True. It still seems like a missed opportunity, though.
I agree with you about Eccleston, Teshi. He's good at going from charming to filled with malice, which is something that the Rider needs to be able to do well.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I recently reread Grey King and Silver on the Tree; Will is so much more likeable when he's just a kid. Will the Old One is insufferable.
I wish that Cooper had chosen to follow Bran's story rather than Will's. Bran's a character I can respect and love.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Jane got most of the focus in my personal favorite book in the sequence, Greenwitch And she's neither an Old One -or- the Pendragon...she's just a compassionate girl. Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I felt the same way the last time I reread the series, Scott.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
I found all of the book's characters hard to get into because, well, it was a children's book, if that makes any sense, though it was still fun.
I *did* really like some of Cooper's style, though. Some really good stuff in that book.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I have no idea what I'd think of the characters if I'd read them for the first time as an adult. I've been reading The Dark is Rising ever since I was a kid, so my perspective is necessarily different.
Anybody read anything of Cooper's that isn't in the Dark is Rising series?
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
I read it first when I was a child, too. I just haven't read it since I was a child, so it was pretty much a new experience.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
A lot of books I read as a child would be that way for me, but I've been rereading The Dark is Rising once a year or so ever since I was little. I reread the full series every now and then, but not as often.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
I didn't really like the Dark is Rising as a child. I tried rereading the series recently and got up to The Grey King before I lost interest. It goes on the pile of children's books that everyone loves that I disliked.
Still, I think if they did the movie right, I would enjoy it. I think a lot of my problem with the books was the writing style, which I think would lend itself better to film. But it appears they aren't going to do the movie right, so I guess I don't need to worry about going.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
Should I try to read this book?
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
It's too perilous.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Do or do not. There is no try.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:Anybody read anything of Cooper's that isn't in the Dark is Rising series?
Yes-- a book called "Seaward."
It was all right. The heroes are a boy from a country with a repressive government and a girl who is the daughter of a Selkie and doesn't know it. They are transported to another world where magic works, and are beset upon by the dark forces of that world.
They have to work together to get home.
I don't remember too much more about it.
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
Years ago I read Cooper's 'The Boggart' about a Canadian family who buy a desk from a Scottish castle and find that there's a beastie in it. I remember it being resonably decent, but not as good as the DIR books.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Scott, was Seaward as run of the mill as it sounds?
Bella, I think that I may have read The Boggart as a child, but I didn't realize that it was by Cooper.
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