This is topic Can you believe this?? in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.


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Posted by Cashew (Member # 6023) on :
 
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/search/story.cfm?storyid=00019924-B850-15E0-A91A83027AF1010E

What bugs me the most (apart from the actual concept) is the pompous, moronic statement the designer makes to justify his crassness.
 
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
 
Kind of stupid, but a little bit funny.
 
Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :
 
I don't see anything that bugs me. He only sold three. It was a dud. My faith in Humanity is partially restored.
 
Posted by Cashew (Member # 6023) on :
 
I'm surprised that anyone would think branding a little kid like that even a "little bit" funny. It's just flat out sick. The designer has far too great a sense of self-importance. The "irreverent" bit is what really annoys me; that word is used as an excuse by those who want to be seen as "cutting-edge" to foist all sorts of dubious things on the public in the name of art, comedy, and so on. They wave the slogan "Nothing is sacred" like some sort of badge of honour.
As far as I'm concerned there are things that should be reverenced, and one of them is a small child's innocence. Another is an adult's responsibility to protect a child from things like that.
 
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
 
He sold three? Even that bothers me.
 
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
 
I've seen that and things worse than that on INFANT ONESIES. I find it seriously disturbing. It must be an L.A. thing...
 
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
This reminds me of a Chaser's War on Everything segement--The third link in that episode, entitled "Pre Tweens".
 
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
 
Those bother me about as much as the "future Harvard graduate" toddler shirts do. Maybe a little less.
 
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
 
Why? (directed at eros)
 
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
 
Playboy to playtoys to Pimpfants, the ever-increasing sexualization of children is hardly new.
That yet another tired old creep wants to jump on the bandwagon because "there ain't no such thing as bad publicity" isn't even close to being a sign of creativity, let alone the mark of "a fashion designer...being humorous and irreverent."
 
Posted by Samuel Bush (Member # 460) on :
 
Some guy slaps some words on a T-shirt and calls himself a “Fashion Designer” !? [Roll Eyes] It’s like tossing a hot dog in a microwave and calling yourself a Chef.

There is a huge disgust factor here and it is a good argument for bringing back public flogging for certain offences.

And here is an idea. Have Fransis Hooper flogged in public and charge admission. Also record it and sell copies. All proceeds to go to Starship Children’s Hospital. Heck, I’d pay $45 for that. I’d never plop down that much for a T-shirt even if it had something actually cute on it like “Eschew Obfuscation” or “Five Out Four People Have Trouble With Fractions.”
 
Posted by TL (Member # 8124) on :
 
Yes. Because violence and torture are always an appropriate response to poor taste.
 
Posted by Samuel Bush (Member # 460) on :
 
I was being facetious, for crying out loud.

Of course, poor taste isn’t a flogging offence. But harming children ought to be. You judge which category Francis Hooper’s shenanigans falls under.
 
Posted by TL (Member # 8124) on :
 
Oh, you were being "facetious." Fancy that. [Wink]
 
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by GaalDornick:
Why? (directed at eros)

One is an obvious (horribly tasteless) joke. The other may be a joke, or may be a reflection of a parent's desire to hold their child to incredibly unrealistic expectations. The latter, assuming the second possibility, strikes me as far more detrimental to a child than the former.

Edit to add: There are, of course, other possible factors. A parent's willingness to dress their child in a "Future Porn Star" shirt, even only in private, could be indicative of the ease with which they will use their child as a source of petty amusement. Etc.
 
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
 
Point taken.
 
Posted by Lissande (Member # 350) on :
 
If children aren't intended to be used as a source of petty amusement, I'm not sure I want any.
 
Posted by Reshpeckobiggle (Member # 8947) on :
 
eros.. what would be detrimental of a parent expecting his or her child to hish standards? Harvard is not unrealistically high. It might mean that the child will end up working a lot harder than his peers because of his parents high expectations, but is that such a bad thing?
 
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
 
There is nothing detrimental about holding high standards, but being expected to be a "Future Harvard Grad" is not good enough on its own. If the child (who is likely to be teenager when it truly knows what it wants from life, even if it is confusing) decides that it wants to do something else, such as become a police officer or enter a vocational school, two things can happen.

One is the parents can become resentful that the child did not follow their desired path, which could lead to a souring of their relationship, or even worse, the end of the relationship.

The other is the parents recognize that the child is choosing the path that it thinks leads to success, and support their child's decision, while giving the proper guidance and ensuring that the path taken won't lead to destruction.

I may have presented a false dichotomy. I suspect there are more options.
 
Posted by PrometheusBound (Member # 10020) on :
 
aspectre, your link is misleadingly entitled " sexualization of children." The APA report just talks about girls.

sorry, just a pet peeve of mine. You see, I think that men, particularly young men, are objectified in the same way women are. I see evidence for this all the way from classical sculpture to modern male models and steriod use.

I am not the only who notices or cares, but it still seems to be made less of an issue of than it is with women.

Mind you, I'm not all that sure I mind being objectified. [Wink]
 
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Reshpeckobiggle:
eros.. what would be detrimental of a parent expecting his or her child to hish standards? Harvard is not unrealistically high. It might mean that the child will end up working a lot harder than his peers because of his parents high expectations, but is that such a bad thing?

Given that an exceptionally small number of people are a) qualified and b) lucky enough to be accepted to Harvard, I think overencouraging your children to achieve something beyond their capabilities is potentially dangerous. "You can achieve anything!" is a pleasant lie.

A child encouraged to be academically rigorous while maintaining the dozens of other factors Harvard (among many colleges) doubtless looks for in their admission process can certainly be a good thing. If my parents hadn't encouraged me academically, I probably would've gotten lazy about it; that's the kind of person I am, unfortunately. My father has two degrees from Harvard, and while he certainly expressed joy at the idea of me attending (and asked that I apply, when it was time), he didn't overpressure me. When I was wait-listed at Harvard (thanks, alumni influence!), he was probably sad, but only showed that he was happy over my being considered at all, and was happy over my other acceptances. I went to the University of Rochester instead; not an Ivy, but still a good school, and he was happy with that. He was even okay, if not pleased, with me dropping out of that school. I've yet to finish a degree, and while he's continued to tell me he would be happy if I went back and finished, he's never overexpressed anger or disappointment in my failure to pursue what he recognizes are his own desires for my life.

On the other hand, I went to an academically rigorous private high school, and was exposed to a lot of kids whose parents were far more demanding than mine. A girl in my highschool Japanese class shot and killed herself her senior year because she felt too pressured by her parents about college. One of my friends in highschool was so obsessed with Harvard that even when she finally got in, she panicked during an exam that she hadn't prepared well enough for and, thinking of the reaction her parents would have upon finding out she did poorly (not failed--if she had done as badly as she thought she might on the exam, she would've gotten a low C), tried to cheat on the exam, was caught, and was expelled. Her life for months after that was hell. I had many friends who were driven to tears, anxiety problems, eating disorders, stress disorders, self-mutilation, binge drinking, drug use and any number of other destructive habits as a means of release from the pressure to overachieve in school, a pressure brought on primarily by their parents (and undoubtedly made worse by being surrounded by similar driven, above-average students).

My father's a child & family psychologist; over the course of years spent in his waiting area (many of them in the psych department of the hospital he used to work at) observing and later helping with his work by doing filing and other office tasks, I had the opportunity to observe an unusually large number of people & families suffering from a variety of problems. Many of these, it turned out, originated with family pressures about college and discrepancies between child and parent expectations over college. The number of problems caused by parents being overly enthusiastic about their child's acceptance to a specific school or upper echelon of schools was staggering.

I'm not saying that every child whose parents pressure them about academia will have these problems, but a parent putting their young child in "future Harvard graduate" clothing sets off bells in my brain about that parent's desires for their child, and the lengths they will go to to exert influence on their child.
 
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by PrometheusBound:
aspectre, your link is misleadingly entitled " sexualization of children." The APA report just talks about girls.

sorry, just a pet peeve of mine. You see, I think that men, particularly young men, are objectified in the same way women are. I see evidence for this all the way from classical sculpture to modern male models and steriod use.

eros, you explained my thoughts better than I did.
I am not the only who notices or cares, but it still seems to be made less of an issue of than it is with women.

Mind you, I'm not all that sure I mind being objectified. [Wink]

Does it matter if the t-shirts were for girls only? That kind of product could be moved to boys any time.

I agree with you about young men being objectified. Rather than be slender, men are expected to be virile and buff. I won't go past this and complain more because men have run the world for most of the time, so it's not as if we are losing something with the current round of objectification.

But then you made a good point when you said you don't mind being objectified. I wonder: Are men really so sex-centered that we see this as flattery, rather than an insult, thus making any correction pointless?
 
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
 
Note that the shirt doesn't say "Porn Star", it says "Future Porn Star." Isn't it pretty negative to start telling a baby that there are already avenues of employment closed of to it? Who are we to tell babies what they can and can't achieve?

You go baby! Aim high!
 


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