That's not a news story, that's a propaganda peice.
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
How, so, Pixiest?
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I don't care what it is, it's sad.
Although technically he didn't die of a toothache, he died from complications of an infected tooth.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Tin: It's not so much about the poor boy and his infection as it is about how we need to do something (national healthcare) about healthcare for the poor.
There's even a poll in the middle asking if the goverment should force more dentists to accept medicaid.
As someone without kids, I'm hesitant to sit in judgement over someone who does, but I'm inclined to chalk this up to "Bad Mother" Both of her kids teeth are rotting out, one to the point of death, I don't think I'm going too far out on a limb.
Teach your kids to brush their teeth and make sure they do it!
I think this child would have died no matter how much money we threw at his mom.
On a surly and insensitive note, judging from the picture at the top of the page, they should have The Rock play her in the made for TV movie.
Pix
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Pixiest, tooth decay can be genetic. I know a boy from a fairly rich family (they live in Malibu) whose parents restrict his sugar, ensure he brushes well and frequently, take him to the dentist two to four times a year, etc., etc.-- and his teeth are still rotting out of his head. When I hear that the brother has six bad teeth, I begin to suspect the same thing is going on. I routinely go years between dental appointments, and the only time I had a cavity was after braces, on the back teeth that were banded (and so couldn't be cleaned effectively for three years.) And it was only two very small ones. Both my grandmothers still have all their teeth. Genetics is a huge part of tooth health, I've been told.
Posted by sweetbaboo (Member # 8845) on :
The fact remains that even for someone who is well employed with "insurance", often times dental isn't a part of that package. I know it isn't for my husband's employment, even just a regular check up and cleaning for everyone in a family adds up pretty quickly. So I don't think it is solely about the "poor".
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Dental insurance is horrid in any event. For the expensive things, most insurance only covers half.. and that's after the deductible.
Still, the procedure that would have saved this boy only cost $80. But she was not paying attention to him at *all*, she was focused on her other child with abscessed teeth.
And if you step back once more, the boy could have been saved with a toothbrush if his mother had just made him use it.
Sorry, KQ, missed your post until after I posted. Yes, the child might have just had genetically bad teeth. That does happen. But given the slant of the story I'm not willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. I think they would have mentioned that it's "Not the mothers fault" if they could have.
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
quote:tooth decay is still the single most common childhood disease nationwide, five times as common as asthma, experts say. Poor children are more than twice as likely to have cavities as their more affluent peers, research shows, but far less likely to get treatment.
So maybe this is just poor parenting...by a lot of parents. Whatever the case, it seems to be a fairly important issue. In this particular case, the mother was at least concerned enough to take her kids to the dentist, so it may be a bit hasty to declare a "bad mother" judgment. Perhaps better education is needed to make parents and children more informed about the importance of brushing one's teeth. If this article, propaganda or not, manages to at least inform a few people of that, then I have no problem with the article.
Posted by sweetbaboo (Member # 8845) on :
quote:But she was not paying attention to him at *all*, she was focused on her other child with abscessed teeth.
I would tend to try to help the kid with the seemingly "worse" problem first as well, just sayin.
I do agree about the toothbrush part.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:I think they would have mentioned that it's "Not the mothers fault" if they could have.
Since it's incredibly hard to prove when good dental care is NOT available, I'm not so sure.
quote:I would tend to try to help the kid with the seemingly "worse" problem first as well, just sayin.
I think that is most parents' tendencies, especially if one kid is a complainer and the other isn't. I never notice my eldest is sick until she throws up or I feel her and she has a temperature of 102, because she just goes about her business as usual, the only indication is maybe she's not very hungry and a little sleepier than usual. She NEVER complains that something hurts or she doesn't feel well; she seems happy even when she is very sick. So I would be hard pressed to know to take care of her first, especially if her little sister the complainer was screaming about how miserable she felt.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Tin: It's not so much about the poor boy and his infection as it is about how we need to do something (national healthcare) about healthcare for the poor.
It's kind of the conclusion which is easy to jump to when a kiddo dies of a routinely treatable issue that was neglected and left to fester into an expensive and ultimately fatal condition that was untreated due to income difficulties on the part of a mother making her have to work through an increasingly broken system that was incapable of providing timely care.
Posted by Kasie H (Member # 2120) on :
I am waiting until I go to school in England to go to the dentist to fill my cavities. Even as a foreign national, b/c I am a student in the country more than six months, I will pay less than $200...even if I need a root canal! The same treatment would cost probably $1,000 here, and would generate significant out-of-pocket expense for me. I'm a genetic-bad-tooth victim, and even though I grew up continually covered by health insurance (and currently have good benefits from my job), my dental work has been out of this world expensive. And my current dental plan has a lifetime cap I have no doubt I would exceed within the next 7-10 years.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Kasie, what kind of dentist are you going to? Unless you have a cavity in every other tooth..or aren't getting the usual tooth-colored fillings (for which I definitely can't fault you).
A lot of dental stuff is definitely genetic. I brushed my teeth once a day as a kid and never flossed, and the only cavities I have are in back molars which didn't fuse together properly, so pretty much they just need inlays so that they'll be a whole tooth. I never got sealants. I definitely needed braces, though.
Weird story: My boyfriend said he once dated a girl who had a lot of cavities...and the next time he went to the dentist, he had more cavities than he'd ever had in his life.
-pH
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I don't see a problem with this news story or the conclusion it has reached. I am still not sure how I feel about universal health care, but I cannot fault the article for going there in this case.
Dental health is sorely underestimated and from what I understand, many people are uneducated about the importance of it as well as how to care for their teeth. I asked my dentist, when I had my son, when I should take him to the dentist for the first time. Her answer surprised me. She said that there is an initiative to try to get poor people to bring their kids into the dentist in preschool (3 years old), but that this is mostly to teach them how to care for their children's teeth. If we brushed our son's teeth twice a day then we could pretty much push it off until kindergarten (when his permanent teeth might start coming in).
I can't remember ever not knowing how to care for my teeth, but apparently it is a problem. I don't call that neglect, just lack of education. It all helps reach the same conclusion, though.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
And a need for yummier toothpaste. I brushed a whole lot more as a kid when I had Slimer toothpaste. Delicious!
-pH
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Pixiest: But she was not paying attention to him at *all*, she was focused on her other child with abscessed teeth.
Oh, right, it's all the mother's fault—her fault for working three jobs, for living in a homeless shelter, and for worrying more about a child with six abscessed teeth. Shame on her, right?
Posted by DevilDreamt (Member # 10242) on :
"Oh, right, it's all the mother's fault—her fault for working three jobs, for living in a homeless shelter, and for worrying more about a child with six abscessed teeth. Shame on her, right?"
Wait... isn't it her fault that she's poor? Isn't everyone in America born with equal rights and opportunities? Obviously she did something wrong if she's poor. She probably doesn't work hard enough or worship Jesus with all her heart or something.
On a less sarcastic note, if she is living in a homeless shelter and working three jobs, what exactly is she spending her money on? Surely three jobs would net some cash, especially if you are in a homeless shelter...
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Where did you get that she was living in a homeless shelter?
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:DaShawn saw a dentist a couple of years ago, but the dentist discontinued the treatments, she said, after the boy squirmed too much in the chair. Then the family went through a crisis and spent some time in an Adelphi homeless shelter. From there, three of Driver's sons went to stay with their grandparents in a two-bedroom mobile home in Clinton.
First paragraph on the second page of the article. They weren't living in a homeless shelter at the time, but it sounds like they recently had been; the Medicaid paperwork presumably got lost because it was sent to the shelter where they'd been living.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:the dentist discontinued the treatments, she said, after the boy squirmed too much in the chair.
This bothers me every time I read it.
Also, I'm not sure she was working three jobs at a time; it sounded to me like she had moved from job to job trying to find something to pay the bills. (Been there, done that.)
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
Yowsah.
First, it's not inconceivable to work three minimum wage jobs and still be unable to afford the first, last, and deposit on a renatl unit -- never mind the exorbitant cost of decent rentals.
Second, at least in my area, most dentists are simply unwilling to accept patients on medicaid because the amount they receive for treatment as compared to insured clients is abysmal, and the paperwork and administrative overhead is awful and adds a lot to the cost of treating patients on medicaid.
Third, there are both genetic and dietary causes related to tooth decay at all levels of society. And not a lot of education about basic dental hygiene.
Fourth, this country (USA) ranks shamefully in most indicators of child health and well-being, anyhow.
Fifth, we need to think of ways to support families. Not condemn.
And now I need to take my son off to his swimming class. I'll be back.
*smiles*
Posted by SoaPiNuReYe (Member # 9144) on :
I really feel sorry for the mother in the story, I mean she did what she could and still her kid died. I probably would have done the same thing in her situation, when it came to sending one kid to the dentist, because at the time I'm sure that the mother thought it was the right thing to do. The kid had 6 rotting teeth... I don't like how insurance is run around here, especially when Canada's is run so much better. I mean you really don't hear about these types of things happening over there.
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
I like the slant of the article. Powerfully written.
But also, I am a newly converted dental floss advocate. I composed this a couple weeks ago:
Just floss your teeth. It's really not that hard. It's not a liberal movement to take away your personal freedoms; it's not a conservative attempt to force someone else's morals on you. It's not even a corporate ploy to subject you to semi-annual 73-cent purchases. It's just a way to get food out from between your teeth, saving you pain and money at the inevitable dentist. I promise - it's entirely worth the 3 minutes of your life you'll have to give away every day. Just do it. Human civilization has evolved for 6,000 years to produce chap and profuse dental floss in some fortunate western nations. Live it up.
(written after a frustrating day trying to find dental floss in Japan that was less than 5 dollars)
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
I really take issue with several things.
1. He did not die from a toothache. He died from an infection that spread to his brain - an infection that began with an abscessed tooth (and incidentally, hasn't there been evidence found that one of the pharoahs died from a tooth abscess?) The very title of the article is dishonest - nobody dies from an ache - the pain is a symptom of a very real problem but the editors wanted scare tactics and shock value over accuracy. "Boy dies from bacterial infection in brain" just doesn't have the same effect, even though it's true.
2. Yes, tooth decay can be hereditary but good oral hygiene goes a LONG way toward preventing major problems. My teeth are terrible, lots of cavities in my youth and young adulthood but since I got older and wiser and began to have to pay for my own dental care I really, really focused on caring for them properly and surprise - no real problems over the last decade or so except for when old fillings break down and need replacing. Until recently, and from what I've been told that's not unusual for post-chemo patients, the chemo wreaks havoc with your mouth plus with all the ease with which your gums bleed when your blood counts are low you don't brush as hard.
3. I have four kids, and I know how hard it is to make certain that all of them have properly brushed their teeth unless you just stand over them each night. I do the best I can and I'm certain that if I were living in a homeless shelter it would be even tougher. But I make it a priority because I know it's vital to their health. Could this mother have done more? Probably. I also can't understand allowing my kid's medical coverage to lapse and either be unaware or not get it corrected immediately. There's no doubt she shares some responsibility in this from my point of view.
4. Lots of things are broken with our Medicaid system. No doubt. But I don't like the idea of forcing a dentist to take Medicaid unless Medicaid will reimburse him properly. (I know the article didn't state that should happen, but the poll question certainly implies the idea) The reason dentists don't take Medicaid isn't because they hate poor kids. It's because they make no money off them - the costs of dealing with the Medicaid paperwork are more than the reimbursed amount. Fix that, and you'll have plenty of dentists more than happy to take Medicaid patients. Heck it'll even pay for itself - if Medicaid reimbursed easily and with no hassle for $80 extractions they might avoid $200,000 hospital bills.
5. I'm finding it hard to believe the statement that a dentist quit seeing a child because he squirmed in a chair. It's not out of the realm of possibility, but I don't think there are dentists alive who treat children (and even some adults) who don't have to deal with squirmers. And good lord, if my child is disruptive and not sitting still for the dentist, then I, as a parent, will step in and correct the situation. I just...find that hard to believe.
Posted by Boris (Member # 6935) on :
Yes, it's sad this kid died from something that was easily treatable. I also think it's sad that a "journalist" used his particular experience to expose problems in a system that simply cannot handle its own size.
I want to know a couple things. Where's the boy's father? Where's the support of family and friends? Should we really be looking to the government to solve all of our problems? I don't think it's fair for us to expect that. Rather than blaming the system for everything bad that happens, perhaps we should be looking at the cause, a society that is almost completely wrapped up in the ideals of self-fulfillment and entitlement. It sure is easy to blame the government for this. But I seriously don't think the failings of government are the chief problem here.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
All I know is that I, for one, won't be having kids unless I know I can provide for them. If, when I do happen to have a kid while I'm still as poor as I am now, you better believe I won't be having any more until I know I can provide for them.
Sometimes, mothers have no control over circumstances like when the father leaves. That's why we have a system that allows for welfare and medicaid. This happened to my aunt living in Philadelphia with 3 toddlers. Their dad left and didn't send checks till they were teens. Anyway, she was completely broke and had to go on welfare and medicaid, and she worked hard to provide for the kids. They cancelled her welfare and medicaid after she started making more money, and as is often the case, that meant that a lot of amenities went out the door, including health care. If my dad (a doctor) hadn't helped out, I imagine she would have been in the same boat as this lady.
Part of me complains at seeing mothers come into the grocery store buying their necessities (milk, bread, cheese) with WIC money followed by 40$ of beer, cigarettes, and ice cream. Part of me understands why we need a system that protects people without health care.
heck, I'm one of em (no health insurance). Luckily, I brush my teeth/floss every day and eat according to the food pyramid. I just hope following those rules keeps me out of the hospital.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Belle: 1. He did not die from a toothache. He died from an infection that spread to his brain - an infection that began with an abscessed tooth (and incidentally, hasn't there been evidence found that one of the pharoahs died from a tooth abscess?) The very title of the article is dishonest - nobody dies from an ache - the pain is a symptom of a very real problem but the editors wanted scare tactics and shock value over accuracy. "Boy dies from bacterial infection in brain" just doesn't have the same effect, even though it's true.
He did die because his toothache was not treated, so no, it is not dishonest at all. There were intervening steps and the article did go into exactly how a toothache could get to the point that it killed a boy, but since fixing that tooth would have prevented all this, I cannot see the title as dishonest at all.
quote: 3. I have four kids, and I know how hard it is to make certain that all of them have properly brushed their teeth unless you just stand over them each night. I do the best I can and I'm certain that if I were living in a homeless shelter it would be even tougher. But I make it a priority because I know it's vital to their health. Could this mother have done more? Probably. I also can't understand allowing my kid's medical coverage to lapse and either be unaware or not get it corrected immediately. There's no doubt she shares some responsibility in this from my point of view.
You are assuming a lot of things, such as that she LET the Medicaid lapse. I get the impression that this occurred because of address changes and that it simply didn't get resolved in time. You also assume that she understood how important oral hygiene was. Being poor is a different world and in that world, priorities are different. Dental hygiene is one of those things that doesn't reap an immediate benefit and, most of the time, it doesn't kill anyone.
Responsibility? Well, it's not as if she stayed "home" with them in her homeless shelter, standing over them to make sure they did their homework and brushed their teeth. This is a woman who had to work 3 jobs at one point to put a roof over her kids' heads and put food on the table. If she spent time in a homeless shelter, that just goes to how bad things have been for her recently. Poor is doing what you have to do to survive and sometimes, tragically, losing that fight despite your best efforts.
What I am basically trying to say is this: I will walk a mile in her shoes before I start judging her from my cushy, 2.5 bath middle class home where I stay home all day and devote most of my attention to my child. (eventually, children) My husband works 1 40 hour a week job where he gets medical and dental insurance and we go to a very good dentist who regularly lectures us on the importance of flossing.
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
Amen.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
quote: Wait... isn't it her fault that she's poor? Isn't everyone in America born with equal rights and opportunities? Obviously she did something wrong if she's poor. She probably doesn't work hard enough or worship Jesus with all her heart or something.
No, she had 5 kids without a spouse to help her raise them, instead she relied on the goverment to take care of her and her kids and surprise surprise the goverment failed her.
Never *EVER* rely on the goverment to take care of you. Take care of yourself.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
quote:And if you step back once more, the boy could have been saved with a toothbrush if his mother had just made him use it.
Although I recognise the obvious slant of this article, I think it is leaning just a little too far the other way to blame bad teeth- whether they be belonging to poor children, middle class children or rich children- on poor oral hygiene. Even if you brush three times a day, floss etc. there is still no guarantee that you will be cavity-free.
The irony of the cost of emergency brain surgery vs. the cost of even a biannual trip to the dentist- or even an annual one is perhaps the key thing for me. If this is a money issue, it failed. How long does it take a dentist to check for cavities? It takes mine about five minutes. For all six members of the family, that's half an hour. Yes, a treatment is longer and more expensive but a dentist can indentify problem areas before they become necessary to be dealt with.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:I also can't understand allowing my kid's medical coverage to lapse and either be unaware or not get it corrected immediately.
The Medicaid system can be IMPOSSIBLE. It took us almost a year after moving here to get Emma covered, because they kept kicking us from one worker to another, losing forms, making us re-submit things, and being out of date on the information we kept updating-- for instance, Healthy Families denied us for making too little at the same time Medi-cal denied us for making too much. (You apply to both when you apply. We actually qualified for Healthy Families.)
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
There really seems to be a lack of understanding of poverty in America. We tend to believe that in this land of opportunity, those who fail to succeed do so because of their own bad choices or failings. I believed this for a long time, before I started dating my husband. He comes from rural poor. (Which, by the way, is different from urban poor in many ways. if I had to choose -- I'd take rural poor.) I guess in that way, he is the embodiment of the American dream because he now has a good job and we are living a firm middle class lifestyle.
Nevertheless, I have now seen what real families do to survive when things go bad...and they can go bad for a wide variety of reasons, regardless of age, work history, number of kids, or marital status. Low wage, low skill, no benefits jobs aren't good enough to support a person, let alone a family. Meanwhile, housing costs are incredible and nobody is keen on building low-income housing because there's no money in it. Heck, around here you can't find a new home going up for less than a quarter of a million dollars.
One day, just to see if I could do it, I tried to set up a budget with an $800 a month income. In this area, there simply is not an apartment available anywhere, even in the slums, for less than $400 a month. So there's half. Utilities will be another $100. Even if I avoid fresh fruits and vegetables and clip coupons, I can't seem to get groceries for less than $150 a month for one person. Since most places are scarce in the public transportation arena, you need a car and whoops...don't have the money for that. Or for clothes. Or health. Or dental. Now, all this is more doable in rural areas where you can actually get an apartment for about $200 a month, but it's still tight. And you still can't afford insurance. Add a child, and you're back to impossible. I'm honestly not sure how the working poor does it.
I don't necessarily think the answer is government intervention, but I do think that part of the problem is middle class people turning a blind eye and wanting to blame poor people for being poor or having too many children or not being married.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
Being on the poor side of the spectrum, my philosophy:
Redistribute the wealth. yay communism.
This health care CEO makes 116 million dollars a year. I don't think anyone should be able to amass that kind of wealth.
Heh. Your budget scenario is freakish close to my life.
Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
quote:Never *EVER* rely on the goverment to take care of you. Take care of yourself.
Often it is not possible to take care of yourself.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
quote:Often it is not possible to take care of yourself.
Can you explain under what circumstances you think people shouldn't be able to take care of themselves? I'm not trying to be snarky, I really want to understand your reasoning behind that statement.
Unless you're thinking of children or those who are mentally or physically disabled to the point that they cannot work.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Tresopax didn't say that you shouldn't be able to take care of yourself, but rather that sometimes it's not possible. Just because you can work doesn't mean you can make enough to pay for anything more than food and shelter. The book Mack linked to discusses that sort of problem.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Belle: Unless you're thinking of children or those who are mentally or physically disabled to the point that they cannot work.
I can't speak for the original poster, but I will say that this is only part of what I see stopping certain individuals from caring for themselves.
The other part is a combination of economics and culture that really makes it difficult for a hard working person to get by. Most of what we've been discussing here are the working poor, especially those who work more than a full-time job to try to make ends meet. The fact that they still fail to make ends meet after working so many hours is a big concern to me because they really should be able to take care of themselves, and yet they can't. Here are just a few problems that I have seen:
1. Incredible housing costs (as I said a few posts up...cheapest slum dwelling you can get around here is $400 a month) 2. Residences zoned for single family use and a culture that does not support multiple unmarried adults living under one roof and sharing expenses 3. Health care costs 4. Transportation costs (in most places, you need a car) 5. Child care costs (if one parent working isn't enough, you have to do something with those kids and if you only have one parent then this is true as well) 6. Taxes (yes, most poor people will not end up paying income tax but they are still responsible for many other taxes including sales tax on groceries!) 7. Emergencies...poor people have no means of handling even the smallest emergency and when a large one comes up, they can be sunk.
These are just a few of the things I can think of off the top of my head that make it difficult for poor people. I don't know what the fix is, but this is how I see the problem.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
quote:2. Residences zoned for single family use and a culture that does not support multiple unmarried adults living under one roof and sharing expenses
Where is this a huge issue? Granted, in this city there are some landlords who will not allow a man and a woman to rent together, but it's by no means impossible.
-pH
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
It is a widepread issue across the country. Living with more than the number of unmarried and/or unrelated adults allowed by zoning regulations puts one at risk for eviction and fines, both of which do happen on a fairly regular basis across the US.
I'd be happy to spend the time and energy to look up more links, either for individual cities' discussions or for summary statistics, but only if it will make a substantial difference to someone. That kind of digging takes work. I've had the information presented to me in various venues, but I don't have citations on hand.
quote:Most neighborhoods near the University are zoned single-family. If three friends, for example, rent a three-bedroom house in a single-family zoned area and the neighbors can prove three unrelated people live in the house, the upset neighbors can hand over the evidence to the assistant parish attorney, who will take the landlord to court and get the renters evicted immediately.
In many cases, this is still happening.
In February, Lea Ann Batson, EBR assistant parish-attorney, took a local landlord to court for a zoning violation and forced his four student renters to move out in the middle of the semester. To prove the case, Batson said neighbors took photos of four cars parked in the driveway over about five months.
A lot of the linkable information online is to University student co-habitation issues. I think this reflects the general audience of online distributable news sources. However, this is also a substantial issue for all of those of low SES (perhaps excepting the rural poor, for whom city-style zoning is less of an issue).
[ March 02, 2007, 04:36 PM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Although it's not usually enforced, even if you have more than the allowed number of children you can get in trouble (for instance, if we had a third child, she would be counted when she turned one. The law requires no more than two people over age one per bedroom. We are in a two bedroom. If we were still here and had three children over the age of one, and our landlord decided to evict us for having five people in a two bedroom apartment, he could. I have also seen DCFS be called in for some other reason, and if there are too many people living in a residence threaten to take the children if the family does not move. In at least one case I've met children who were actually taken for that reason.)
Posted by maui babe (Member # 1894) on :
I wonder what the laws are here in Hawaii. I know that many many families here live in multi-family groups... it may even be the rule rather than the exception. Working for the department of health, I've investigated outbreaks that occurred in very small homes (maybe 600 sq ft) where 14 or 15 people lived - maybe a middle aged couple, their adult children and spouse and 4 or 5 grandchildren.
Especially certain immigrant groups here live in crowded conditions that I would never consider acceptable. But as far as I know, there are no laws against it here.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Doubtlessly these are regulations that are enforced under the discretion of the AG office. I wonder if the culture varies enough to make the handling of this much different in your neck of the woods. (?) Likely the laws & regulations themselves are quite different, just from the cursory read.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
CT, it's also worth noting that that article is a year and a half old. I only mention that because there's a housing shortage at the moment, and I know the state is trying to implement a bunch of different programs to help out with that.
ETA: Also, most homes very near the universities are duplexes. Those that are single-family generally have the owners living in them. But Michael and I have been looking around for a new place recently, and no one has said anything about us being unmarried. It IS a big issue in this area that a lot of landlords will not rent to undergrads, however.
-pH
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
I think there is a good deal of selective enforcement and blind-eye treatment going on here, though I don't have the stats at hand to back it up. I expect that if you are white, middle-class, and generally quiet adults, this is less of a problem than if you a dark-skinned group of persons with lots of little kids and who are seen as dirty (for whatever reason). Or if it's a matter of wanting to kick you out for other reasons (e.g., to raise the rent despite a lease), but being able to use this one.
quote:Originally posted by pH: CT, it's also worth noting that that article is a year and a half old.
Do you mean that in the sense of "only a year old" or "at least a year old"? (I'm just not sure what you are getting at -- i.e., whether you think the issue [or single-family zoning being a hurdle for those of limited means] is more or less at the fore right now in Louisiana.)
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
I mean that, as I said previously, there's now a major housing shortage, which means the state is trying to make allowances and implement programs to encourage lower rents and so forth.
Edit: In other words, laws such as that one are the least of the problems. I will say that the no-undergrads thing did significantly limit my roommate's and my choices, but I suppose it's an understandable decision.
-pH
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Ahhh ... okay. Got it.
In Madison, there was ongoing controversy about providing low-income-friendly housing, including SROs and multi-family dwellings. I recall the same in Urbana-Champaign. I think it's one of the bread-and-butter city planning issues, actually, although obviously quite exacerbated in Louisiana post-flood.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Yeah, the big problem here being that a whole bunch of the lower-rent housing flooded, and a great deal of it hasn't been rebuilt.
Let me put it this way: when I first came back, an apartment identical to the one I lived in sophomore year was cost about 2.5 times as much in rent.
-pH
Posted by Reshpeckobiggle (Member # 8947) on :
I grew up very poor. Me, my mom, my younger brothers and sister were literally the only white family in the projects. My teeth were rotting away, and they got fixed just in time because I joined the Army. I can't speak for everyone, but I will say that for my situation and for pretty much everyone who was in the projects for more than a few months, the main factors were irresponsible parenting, drug addiction and alcohol abuse. It wasn't the kids fault, it was the parents. We're not getting the whole story here, I guarantee it. That the kid didn't have to die is obvious. But trying to blame the government is simply more bleeding heart liberalism. I'm not going to go so far as to say that this woman is responsible for her childs death, any more than the mothe of a kid who gets hit by a car in front of the house is guilty. Sometimes things just happen. But this kid's mother is responsible for his not receiving treatment. If she was working 3 jobs an not paying for rent or bills, there is no reason all of her kids didn't get treatment.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reshpeckobiggle: If she was working 3 jobs an not paying for rent or bills, there is no reason all of her kids didn't get treatment.
I did not get the impression she was working three jobs simultaneously.
quote:The bakery, construction and home health-care jobs she has held have not provided insurance.
That sounds more to me like she has gone from one job to another, none of which provided insurance.
Posted by Lavalamp (Member # 4337) on :
I'm more than a little perturbed by the idea that failing to blame the mother equates to bleeding heart liberalism.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reshpeckobiggle: I grew up very poor. Me, my mom, my younger brothers and sister were literally the only white family in the projects. My teeth were rotting away, and they got fixed just in time because I joined the Army. I can't speak for everyone, but I will say that for my situation and for pretty much everyone who was in the projects for more than a few months, the main factors were irresponsible parenting, drug addiction and alcohol abuse. It wasn't the kids fault, it was the parents. We're not getting the whole story here, I guarantee it. That the kid didn't have to die is obvious. But trying to blame the government is simply more bleeding heart liberalism. I'm not going to go so far as to say that this woman is responsible for her childs death, any more than the mothe of a kid who gets hit by a car in front of the house is guilty. Sometimes things just happen. But this kid's mother is responsible for his not receiving treatment. If she was working 3 jobs an not paying for rent or bills, there is no reason all of her kids didn't get treatment.
Okay, this is strange.
These are statements in your post.
1. You can't say it was necessarily the fault of the parent. 2. It's the fault of the parent. 3. You're not going to go so far as to say that it is the fault of the parent. 4. If she was working three jobs and not paying the rent or bills then there is no concievable reason why all the kids would not all have recieved treatment? 5. Not blaming the parent over the medical system is bleeding heart liberalism. 6. ??? 7. Profit!
Posted by Reshpeckobiggle (Member # 8947) on :
I guess that could be confusing. It's her fault the kid's teeth weren't fixed. It's not her fault that,in spite of the extreme unliklihood of a tooth infection spreading to the brain, that is what happened and he died. The woman has my sympathy; I'm wouldn't be surprised if she was blaming herself somehow for this freak occurrence.
Lavalamp, not blaming the mother does not equate to bleeding-heart liberalism. Blaming the government, however, does. That's exactly what I said, and I don't know why you would change my words like that.
You think the government is responsible whenever something bad happens that could have been prevented? Do you think the government should be the ultimate provider of safety and success for its citizens? Do you think that poor people shouldn't have to work harder than everyone else to get themselves out of their situation, because life isn't fair and it's up to the government to fix that? Because life isn't fair, but I don't need the government, in its infinite wisdom, to decide what is best for me, and I don't need it to fix my problems. The government just makes things worse.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
How about you go read that book I linked to and then come back and explain how exactly you expect the working poor to somehow magically work harder to get themselves out of their situation?
Take off your blinders and open your eyes to reality.
Life isn't fair.
However, just because life isn't fair doesn't excuse anyone from turning a blind eye towards attempts to make life somewhat fair.
And in terms of a "extreme unlikelihood of a tooth infection spreading to the brain," have you looked at an anatomy book lately? If you have, you can see exactly how close the roots of your teeth are to your brain.
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
Even if the mother was irresponsible, was it the kid's fault? Should we as a society allow children to die for the sins of their parents? We don't get to choose our parents, and children are helpless to care for themselves. Even if we don't have a responsibility to adults who screw up (and I think we do, some) we do have a responsibility to their children.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
Of course it's not the kid's fault and where has anyone suggested it was?
But children in America cannot get medical attention for themselves - they can't drive themselves to the doctor and they can't pay for it so medical care for children is a responsibility that falls to the parents.
This is a case where I'm disappointed in several entities. I'm disappointed in the Medicaid system for making it virtually impossible for dentists to accept Medicaid without going bankrupt. I'm disappointed in a beaureacracy that makes it difficult for families to obtain the coverage they qualify for, and, yes, I'm disappointed in a mother who let things get to this state. She had a duty to act to protect her children, and that included insisting on good oral hygiene and in staying on top of the medical coverage situation and getting the emergency care her son needed before it had escalated so far out of control.
I am not saying she bears all the responsibility here, but I do think she bears some. I'm not blaming her for being poor or for needing government assistance, but she had two children with teeth so badly decayed they were life-threatening - that implies some neglect on her part.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
There is a reality television show called 30 Days and although the show is generally remarkably good for a reality show the first episode is excellent. The host of the show and his girlfriend try to live for a month on a very limited budget (minimum wage for each of them, I believe).
If you've never seen you should try and watch it, but I'll explain some of their key problems.
Finding a place to live, free furniture and jobs wasn't a problem. However, they had massive issues with exhaustion, and injury pertaining to the jobs that the man got. These injuries led to a necessary trip to the hospital. The hospital bill negated their entire budget, thus giving them nothing to live off for the rest of the month.
It's not the everyday expenses that get you, it's the surprising ones and the constant exhaustion.
For a weekend, they try to look after children. They find it's hard to *not* get things for the children.
Watch it.
Posted by Lavalamp (Member # 4337) on :
Resh,
I read your post as basically setting up a dichotomy where we either blame the mother or we blame government. Now that I see Samp's summary of your post, I realize that I missed some of the complexity of what you were saying.
I still don't get the use of a phrase like "bleeding heart liberalism" in the context of the discussion here. Basically, there exist government programs, some of which contributed to, rather than relieved the situation. If, as I'm sure it occurs to many, there is value in focusing on the things that we might be able to fix, it seems at least reasonable to focus on the things our government does (or fails to do) with our money.
It's awfully tempting to simply look at the end of this situation and say "well, obviously this woman is to blame." But, really rather than affixing blame, if we try to take a constructive approach that says whatever assistance we do offer as a society should be effective assistance, it's certainly going to steer the discussion away from her "adult" situation and towards things like:
- health care programs that are affordable and don't get people bogged down in red tape.
- easy sufficient access to health care providers who accept payments from whatever programs we fund.
- education (for parents who might not really be all that "up" on the dangers of poor hygeine).
- social services that might've noticed that a sick kid wasn't getting treatment, perhaps look into the mother's competence, and possible sources of treatment for the kid.
Or I suppose we should just decide that whatever happens to the children of the poor, the ill-informed, the just plain stupid, incompetent, (or whatever we ultimately decide is this woman's core problem), is just what we'd want in our society and leave it at that.
Sure...she shouldn't have expected government to solve her problem. But she is also pretty obviously lacking in resources (both financial and otherwise), so we may actually be dealing with a "learned helplessness" situation here. Get beat down enough times and the lesson for most mammalian brains is to expect it. It works the same in rats as it does in humans. It's not an excuse, but it does provide at least one plausible explanation as to why a person at the bottom of our particular social ladder might not look very resourceful or have a lot of drive or energy to devote to solving problems that we can sneer at on a Bulletin Board as we live lives quite removed from her situation.
And before anyone says it...yes...there are people in such situations who overcome them. But expecting that to be the "norm" for people in that situation is ridiculous. The norm is going to be defeat and basic helplessness...the exceptional ones succeed in spite of it.
Demanding that the government programs we do put in place actually be effective is NOT bleeding heart liberalism. Nor is focusing on government programs in the face of seemingly intractable problems like this. We have resources in this country which, through our taxes, we combine in ways that could prove to be remarkably effective in addressing all sorts of terrible ills created by our own system of greed/capitalism. So...yeah, I focus on the government side of the equation and don't necessarily care about blame.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:The government just makes things worse.
That's why places like Sweden are cesspools of misery and failure and the people there are not actually happier than us.
Posted by Reshpeckobiggle (Member # 8947) on :
Sam, we're not a little postage stamp country like Sweden. Socialism can work in small populations, but it won't work here.
Lava, I'm not proposing a solution. If the system can be fixed and things like what happened to that kid can be prevented in the future, I'm for it. I'm only giving my opinion of what the situation likely was, based upon my own experience. I've never seen anyone so poor and be unable to extricate himself or herself from poverty; not in this country. You just gotta work hard. Welfare gives people a reason to not work as hard as required.
Mac, maybe your anatomy book tells you a different story, but a tooth infection spreading to the brain is very rare, regardless of the proximity of the tooth to the brain. The mother could hardly have expected that is what could happen if she didn't get her son's tooth fixed.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Sam, we're not a little postage stamp country like Sweden. Socialism can work in small populations, but it won't work here.
I hear this more times than I can count, but I am never shown anything that is convincing proof that this is indeed the case! It's sort of a mantra at this point, used to excuse the higher happiness indexes of other countries who experience a lot of success with a more democratically socialist model.
Posted by Lavalamp (Member # 4337) on :
Resh...
Poverty is not a result of laziness. Poverty mostly is the result of the following: - having poor parents - high medical bills - unemployment/under-employment
You are aware, I hope, that America's financial health actually requires a non-zero unemployment percentage. Right? Otherwise, when unemployment gets too low, the Fed raises interests rates to head off inflation.
And that's REAL unemployment (people looking for work who can't find it). People with no pay.
Now, let's also look at the working poor -- something our National statistics do a pretty darned awful job of capturing. It's pretty flippant of you to tell someone working two jobs that they need to work harder. Oh, and by the way, they should also spend more time with their kids and.
What percentage of the working poor families are in that boat because they're lazy?
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
So I went to visit my in-laws this weekend and I learned some things about the ways companies treat the working poor that I had real trouble with. (My in-laws are working poor.) Apparently, it is common practice to fire employees for taking time off work for illness. When I pointed out that this was illegal they said, "So? Who's got the money to fight them?"
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Are you sure that's illegal, Christine? I know it is in certain circumstances, but I'm not aware of a law that makes it illegal as a blanket rule.
(Some states may have such laws, of course.)
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I suppose I could be wrong, but I thought that once you worked for a company for a certain period of time that they couldn't fire you for valid medical conditions. I thought it was related to the laws protecting pregnant women. Now you're going to make me go and do research...
If it isn't a law, though, it's still a crappy thing for a company to do.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
It grants up to 12 weeks of unpaid leave in a 12 month calendar period for birth of a child, to care for a seriously ill immediate family member and for the employee's own serious health issue.
However, the employer must be a covered employer and meet certain obligations, among them having 50 or more employees. So if it's a small business with less than 50 employees, it's probably not illegal.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Oh no, these are large companies I'm talking about. I knew there were exceptions for small businesses. I won't mention names here but trust me, there are thousands of employees involved in the cases they were citing.
Thanks for doing the legwork for me. I've turned up sick today and have been too bleary-eyed to spend much time in front of the computer.
Posted by Reshpeckobiggle (Member # 8947) on :
Words keep getting put into my mouth. I never said lazy. A poor person can work as hard as the next guy and never get out of poverty. It's not laziness. You gotta work a lot harder to get out of poverty than you need to to just stay out of poverty. But life isn't fair, and the one thing about this country that is not the case in most of the rest of the world is that it is far from impossible to lift yourself up by your own bootstraps. I cannot envision a situation where a poor person is prevented from extricating himself from pverty by anything except his own lack of motivation. And the driving force that removes that motivation is welfare.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
You keep saying blatantly contracictory things. You are not making any sense.
quote:A poor person can work as hard as the next guy and never get out of poverty.
quote:I cannot envision a situation where a poor person is prevented from extricating himself from pverty by anything except his own lack of motivation.
You say 'A poor person can work very hard and not get anywhere,' you concede in your writing that there's an amount of chance outside of their control that can keep them in poverty regardless of their actions, and you promptly follow it with 'I cannot imagine how someone could possibly be left impoverished due to anything other than a lack of motivation.'
You are arguing against yourself.
Fix that before I go on my shpiel about how the european quasi-socialist model is actually better at equipping people to escape poverty.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Resh: You should read the book Mackillian keeps mentioning. It might help you envision those situations.
Belle: I agree that it's the parents' responsibility to care for their children, but it still seems to me that this is a case where it was the system that failed, not the parenting. The dentist stopped treating the boy because he squirmed too much. According to the article it's incredibly difficult to find dentists that accept Medicaid. Then there were problems with paperwork. I just don't know what she could have done different, unless you assume that it all goes back to her not making them brush their teeth well enough, which I'm not at all convinced is a safe assumption.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
To put this in perspective, "squirmed too much" might mean "was just wiggling around in the chair a bit," or it might mean "was unable to be kept still enough without sedation to be safe using sharp instruments around." A good number of children with really horrid dental problems need sedation (even general anesthesia) to have extensive work done. A situation such as described would have been intensely painful even just to fully examine the surrounding area.
OR facilities get booked for serious dental care in kids. That may or may not be covered under a given healthcare funding program, but it is doubtlessly quite expensive.
[ March 06, 2007, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
I kicked a dental assistant while under sedation. And I'm supposedly a grown-up. I can definitely see a small child being unmanagable without some serious knockout drugs.
-pH
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
Okay, so this thread was on my mind today as I took three of my four kids to the dentist. The other one went last week, her checkup was perfect except we need to start talking orthodontics. :shudder:
Well, of my four kids one has two tiny cavities. Now, we can presume that they have all been drinking the same flouridated water, eating the same foods, and otherwise living similiar lifestyles. All of them have been trained to brush their teeth by me and had me harp on them to make sure they do it. And Abigail, my six year old with the two tiny cavities has never been one to skip brushing teeth at night.
So, I asked the dentist if I were doing anything wrong. He said of course not, he could tell she cleans her teeth regularly and that otherwise she had a very healthy mouth. Some kids just get cavities, especially in baby teeth. She's one that will be a definite candidate for sealants later.
However, I don't think that knowing that some kids are more prone to cavities absolves the mother completely. I STILL say she bears some responsibility (note I say only some, I am not excusing the other failures in the system when I say that.) There are ways to get your kids dental health seen to even if you can't pay for them. I asked the dentist specifically if he took Medicaid (he is, incidentally a pediatric dentist). He said no, but he participates in a group of pediatric dentists that volunteer their services to work in a low-cost clinic downtown that accepts people who cannot pay for dental care. He said they rotate, and he winds up doing it several times a year. He also told me that the dental school at UAB has many low-cost programs for people who cannot afford to pay full price for dental care or who do not have insurance. He also speaks once a year at the local elementary school, handing out free toothbrushes and toothpaste and dental floss and brochures directing people to resources that will help them if they can't afford care.
In other words, it's possible to get help. It may not be as easy as we like, it may be inconvenient (UAB dental school is in an area of town with little public parking, though there are mass transit buses that run there), but it's possible. And if your kids health is a priority, you'll find a way to make it happen. Look at kq's post about how difficult it was for her to navigate the system to get her girls covered. It was hard, but she did it, because she's a parent that is committed to the health of her kids. Every parent is responsible for the health of their children, and even if it's inconvenient or difficult, you find a way to make it work. This mother DID fail her kids. Yes, the system failed her and failed the kids too, but she is not blameless, in my book.
quote: A good number of children with really horrid dental problems need sedation (even general anesthesia) to have extensive work done.
That's absolutely unbelievable to me. I cannot imagine letting a child get to that state before doing something. At some point aren't parents liable in some way? Does this seem like child neglect to anyone else? I mean, would we think differently if it were a medical problem somewhere other than the mouth that the parent didn't have treated? Or is it different because that type of problem can usually be seen in an ER, which won't turn people away, and dental problems can't be treated there?
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
The trouble is, Belle, that article didn't tell us the whole story and as I said once before, I refuse to make judgments without truly understanding her situation. There are any number of mitigating factors here and I have to say, a few free or cheap clinics for dental work won't cut it. There are more children without dental insurance than clinics who will treat them. I'm not saying she's blameless, I'm just saying I won't judge her with this information.
And when it comes down to it, what good does it do to throw around blame like that? Does it make us feel better to live our middle class lifestyles if we think that this woman's poverty and even her son's death is wholly or partly her own fault? Does it help other people in her situation? Does it forgive us from helping these people? Should we help them and if so, how?
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
Christine, I agree with much of what you're saying, but you need to understand that my motivation for examining the "Who is to blame issue" stems from an extremely biased article that slanted ALL blame away from the parent.
Had the article been more balanced, I'd have felt no need to comment on it. Either way, it has nothing to do with me needing absolution for my middle-class lifestyle as you call it and speaking of not judging people, maybe you should listen to your own post and, quite frankly, be quiet. You have no idea what type of lifestyle I live or what I came from. You have no idea what *I* personally, and my husband, have sacrificed in order to care for our kids and that includes dental care. I only recently got dental insurance myself, and coming up with the money to pay for dental care for four kids is no picnic, not even for "middle-class" people.
Plus, this is a discussion board. Discussing things is what we do. Quit assigning motives to people that don't exist.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Belle, do you remember how it was for you when you were in the midst of a deep depression, and how much you leaned on Wes to help continue taking care of the kids? Some mothers are in a similar situation but without family support, or even with people they live with actively working to make things worse.
---
Edited to add: While working in an ER, I have begged and begged to get kids who didn't have coverage seen for dental care. If it was an acute matter (tooth half broken off and kid in agony in the ER), I could usually find someone to come to the ER for a quick temporary treatment. But for anything longer term, at the places who would take them, the waiting list for an initial appointment was usually at least 5-6 months out. Given that these families might not be in this city 5 months out (migrant workers, or likely to get kicked out of the shelter and have to go on the Greyhound to live with family in Chicago, etc.), keeping an appointment was a bigger problem than you might think, even if they got it.
Also, sometimes it's a matter of not having access to clean water. Cheap soda pop costs a lot less than bottled water, and bottled water is a relatively recent phenomenon as far as mass availability goes.
I don't think we need to fix everyone's life, and I don't think we have to feel bad for not living on the edge ourselves. I do think there's good reason to change this system in order to make healthy living and healthy choices easier.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
Yes, I remember that, and again, I feel like I need to shout from the rooftops or something I'm not saying the mother bears all the responsibility here.
But she bears some. That is my entire point, the whole thing. No one seems to be grasping it, and it's frustrating.
We can sit here all day and think of reasons why this mother didn't get dental care for her kids utnil it was life-threatening. Maybe she was depressed. Maybe she was in an abusive relationship, and her husband/boyfriend beat her and she was too scared to leave home. Maybe she herself has a phobia about dentists and can't take the kids because she's too afraid herself. I can go on.
None of that changes one essential fact - if you are the primary caregiver for a child his health is your responsibility. Even if you're scared, sick, depressed, poor, doesn't matter. That child's health is your responsibility and you take care of it. My husband did have to shoulder extra duties during my depression, but I still took my kids to their checkups and cared for them when they were sick. I've been in a pediatrician's office with a needle in my chest and a pump around my waist pumping chemo drugs in my system, so sick myself I could barely stand yet I was there because my child was sick and needed care. And I dont' say that to make myself out to be some kind of hero, or to say "Look at me, I'm so holier-than-thou" (shout out to Annie's thread) but just to say that I think that is no more and no less than any caring parent would do. It's what you have to do, even if you don't want to. Having kids means that you will have to put another living human beings' needs before your own for at least 18 years. In my case, four living human being's needs. I don't get to say "I'm too sick or too depressed, so my kids teeth can rot out." If I am too sick or depressed to care for my kids I find someone else to do it. And I can assure you, few things you can throw up about what may have kept this mother from caring for her kids will sway me, because I've been through too much myself. I've had to be a parent through poverty (not just lower middle class, I'm talking poverty), I've had to be a parent through death and loss, I've had to be a parent through cancer, through emotional depression, through all kinds of things and yet I never lost sight of the fact that I was a parent and had to take care of four other people. Again, not tooting my own horn, I can name off the top of my head dozens of people here on Hatrack that have done the same, perhaps in some cases much better than I have. All I want to point out is that every parent should be expected to at least get basic medical care for their children.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
quote:If I am too sick or depressed to care for my kids I find someone else to do it.
I think those who have the someone else to do it are very lucky.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Belle, if you reread my posts you will notice that I specifically did not refer directly to you or make judgments about you. I did not use the second person when I talked about a middle class lifestyle. I chose the wording specifically because I do not know what your lifestyle is or how you have gotten there. So please, take my comments in the manner in which they were intended -- which was to further a discussion of the problems with poverty in American and the possible solutions.
[ March 07, 2007, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: Christine ]
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by katharina:
quote:If I am too sick or depressed to care for my kids I find someone else to do it.
I think those who have the someone else to do it are very lucky.
I have often worried what I would do if I ever became too sick or depressed to care for my son. Yesterday and the day before I had a miserable sinus infection that knocked me off my feet. I managed, but I wondered where I would take him or what I would do with him if I got really sick. I don't live anywhere near my family or my husband's family and I don't have any friends I could count on like that. I often find isolation to be a huge problem in my life and I often wonder if anyone else feels the same way. If I were poor, that would just magnify the problem. It's a big enough problem as it is, with me being legally blind and unable to drive. I've noticed that one difference between modern days and historical times is communities -- we just don't form them like we used to.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Oops double post.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Originally posted by Belle: Yes, I remember that, and again, I feel like I need to shout from the rooftops or something I'm not saying the mother bears all the responsibility here.
But she bears some. That is my entire point, the whole thing. No one seems to be grasping it, and it's frustrating.
I don't think it will alleviate much of your frustration, but I do agree with that point.
I've been off-kilter lately as regards making sense of my thoughts and getting them out right, and I'm sorry for having contributed to your frustration. It's me, frankly -- even my husband has been looking at me askance lately. *grin
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Kasie, what kind of dentist are you going to? Unless you have a cavity in every other tooth..or aren't getting the usual tooth-colored fillings (for which I definitely can't fault you).![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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