A quote from USA Today, in an article claiming all ideologies have proved harmful over the past two centuries:
quote:intellectuals and other charlatans
[I added the emphasis]
A quote from Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451:
quote:"Ah," Beatty leaned forward in the faint mist of smoke from his pipe. "What more easily explained and natural? With school turning out more runners, jumpers, racers, tinkerers, grabbers, snatchers, fliers, and swimmers instead of examiners, critics, knowers, and imaginative creators, the word 'intellectual' of course became the swear word it deserved to be."
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
Yes.
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
This whole thing is such a shock to me; Beatty's commentary on history seemed like something we should be working to ward off in the future, not something that could be starting now.
*shudders*
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
Starting now? It was on-going when Bradbury wrote 451. But hey, at least we've pretty much got TV walls now.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:Originally posted by MrSquicky: But hey, at least we've pretty much got TV walls now.
Some of us do, anyway. I stayed at a friend's parents' house once and they had an awesome rec room in the basement, with a built-in entertainment center that included a tv screen that took up almost the entire wall, set into the wall. It was really awesome. We watched Bring it On on it seven times that weekend. You haven't seen Bring it On until you've seen it up close and larger than life (I didn't see it in theaters, that weekend was my introduction to it.) Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
quote: You haven't seen Bring it On until you've seen it up close and larger than life
Funny. You make that sound like a desirable experience.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Yeah, I used to think I didn't want to see it. Then I saw it with a bunch of girlfriends and it's really a very funny movie.
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
I'm sorry. I resolved to turn off the sarcastic snob humor. I haven't quite managed to remember that yet, though.
Posted by DevilDreamt (Member # 10242) on :
what is the rest of the quote from USA today? Either the entire sentence or a link (or article name) would be cool.
And Bring It On really looked like a chick flick to me, which made me discard it without a second thought.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:I'm sorry. I resolved to turn off the sarcastic snob humor. I haven't quite managed to remember that yet, though.
I've been chalking it up to "returned missionary-itis": you are still in the adjustment period after coming back to "the real world." You're allowed to be weird for a few weeks, I'm not holding it against you. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:Originally posted by DevilDreamt: And Bring It On really looked like a chick flick to me, which made me discard it without a second thought.
That's what I thought, and why I groaned when I heard my friends had rented that particular movie. But I quite enjoy camp-- and the film is pure camp. Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
Most people aren't intellectuals. If they're unable/unwilling to become intellectuals, why would they want to listen to what intellectuals have to say? They'll automatically gravitate towards ideas that make the most sense to them, which may or may not be the most logical ideas.
These days, there's a lot more value placed on hard work and loyalty rather than on knowledge and critical thinking.
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
What, exactly, would you define as an intellectual?
Posted by DevilDreamt (Member # 10242) on :
quote:Originally posted by Annie: What, exactly, would you define as an intellectual?
Anyone with an IQ 100 or above with the motivation to use it?
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Anyone who is smarter than you, and upsets you by demonstrating that, is an intellectual. Posted by Euripides (Member # 9315) on :
quote:Originally posted by Phanto:
Yes.
Indeed.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:Originally posted by DevilDreamt: Bring It On really looked like a chick flick to me, which made me discard it without a second thought.
If you like soft-core, this movie may appeal to you.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
quote:Originally posted by MightyCow: Anyone who is smarter than you, and upsets you by demonstrating that, is an intellectual.
Heh, heh.
Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
quote:Most people aren't intellectuals. If they're unable/unwilling to become intellectuals, why would they want to listen to what intellectuals have to say? They'll automatically gravitate towards ideas that make the most sense to them, which may or may not be the most logical ideas.
Generally, I think I'd rather have most people gravitate towards ideas that make the most sense to them, rather than ideas that don't make sense to them but seem logical. The reason is that there is really no such thing as a "logical idea". Rather, logic just takes a bunch of starting assumptions and draws whatever conclusions result from that. Most ideas could be logical given the right starting assumptions. The trouble is that often some starting assumptions are flawed, which results in very wrong conclusions. (I'd argue Communism is one particularly famous instance of this.) Unless someone is really willing to examine the assumptions that lie underneath their "logical ideas", I think the common sense of the average person is more trustworthy than the average person's logic.
This is a common error made by intellectuals. I'd say intellectuals are people who use reasoning and logical argument to draw conclusions that conflict with our natural intuitions. While this is good in theory, many many intellectuals base their logical argument on bold-yet-unjustified assumptions, leading to bold-yet-equally-unjustified conclusions.
Of course, then again, you could come up with much broader definitions of an intellectual too. Broadest of all, an intellectual is someone who thinks - but I don't think that is what people are refering to when they complain about intellectuals.
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
I've always thought an intellectual was anyone with a passion for thought and learning. That's why this gives me issues.
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
quote:Originally posted by Joldo: I've always thought an intellectual was anyone with a passion for thought and learning. That's why this gives me issues.
Perhaps. But trying to define a class of people this way proves troublesome. One of my mission companions was very unlike me in taste and experience and mode of thought and had no academic aspirations whatsoever. However, in conversation and the way she read people, she was downright sharp. It humbled me a bit - true, she had no visible "passion" for anything I would have deemed intellectual, but she had a passion for knowing things that I would never know. They aren't the kinds of things written in books, but...
I realize the issue here. I bemoan American idiocy all the time - but I think in doing so we run the risk of calling individual people idiots. And as unwashed as the masses are, I am wary of assigning any particular person to that category.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I came BACK from my mission vowing not to go through that phase that return missionaries are famous for. Even though I conciously tried to avoid the patterns of thinking and behaviors I still fell victim to it.
I needed a few weeks before I started returning to normality.
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
What are you saying? Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Annie: What are you saying?
There is a good chance that if you spend enough time on Hatrack that within a year or two you will look back at who you are now and scratch your head ALOT.
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