It's about time
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Oh, good grief. That is saddening and terrifying and makes me angry.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
This is almost as bad as those guys who think they can lay on hands and do healing through prayer.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I believe that people can be healed through prayer.
I even believe that herbs can have curative power.
But everything about that story makes me angry.
Posted by Jay (Member # 5786) on :
Wonder what is in it?
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
The recipe, "seven herbs and spices", sounds a lot like the secret recipe at KFC.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Gambian Health Minister Tamsim Mbowe, a trained physician with multiple medical degrees, defended the so-called herbal cure.
"I can swear, 100 percent, that this herbal medication His Excellency is using is working. It has the potency to treat and cure patients infected with the HIV-virus," he told CNN.
What does he have to say to skeptics?
"I will tell them, as a Western medical trained doctor with 13 years experience meeting different professors, meeting different colleagues of mine, I've seen His Excellency, my leader, coming up with herbal medications that are able to treat and cure patients with HIV-virus, which have been proven within all medical and laboratory parameters."
All medical and laboratory parameters?
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Yup. All of them. Even that weird one that no one knows what to do with.
I'm with KQ on this. I find it exploitative and horrible.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
This sounds a little too much to me like the "sleep with a virgin to cure AIDS" idea...
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
This dude reminds me of Nero.
Posted by SC Carver (Member # 8173) on :
I agree with all of you. It is horrible to take advantage of the weak and desperate.
But... What if it worked?
I don't believe it will, but how crazy would it be if they did find a cure like this. It’d be up there with Penicillin. Sounds like an interesting Sci-Fi book.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
If it did work, then what he is doing is even more horrible. Let me put it this way:
If God gave me a cheap, readily available herbal cure for AIDS (or cancer, or heck, even antibiotic-resistant strep), and I gave it to someone (ALONG WITH their regular medicine) and found out that it worked, I would IMMEDIATELY submit it for testing and get the findings published so that everyone could benefit from it. IMMEDIATELY. It would be wrong to do otherwise. This guy has people offering to do the testing at no cost to him, and he kicks them out of the country. Even if he is telling the absolute truth, what he is doing is unconscionable.
Posted by brojack17 (Member # 9189) on :
I understand the plecebo effect does work many times, but this just seems cheap.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:It’d be up there with Penicillin.
I read a great book on the development of penicillin, and it was a lot more than just, "Hey, look, bread mold kills other germs!" I can look it up for you if you're interested. It was really well written.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I'd love to read it, KQ--sounds like a good book.
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
If I may play Devil's advocate, this stuff is indeed likely causing a placebo effect, and thus it is at least doing good by making people feel better. Having it tested and exposed as just sugar-water, so to speak, would ruin the effect.
The only problem is that people are giving up their conventional medication, so someone needs to encourage them to take both.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:The only problem is that people are giving up their conventional medication, so someone needs to encourage them to take both.
Um, they are encouraging that. Well, until they get booted out of the country, that is.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
While the placebo effect likely accounts for the people feeling better, it is disturbing for them to think "feeling better" = "I'm cured".
Posted by SC Carver (Member # 8173) on :
Yes, I guess we will have to chalk it up to the placebo effect at best. It could be outright deception, They wouldn't let CNN look at any medical records, those "cured" people might not have ever had HIV to start with.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:Originally posted by Noemon: I'd love to read it, KQ--sounds like a good book.
Here you go. Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
quote:The only problem is that people are giving up their conventional medication, so someone needs to encourage them to take both.
Um, they are encouraging that. Well, until they get booted out of the country, that is.
Yeah, I mean the guy who's giving the "cure" should say that it works best in conjunction with the other medicine or something.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
But he's a modern-day Nero, so he won't.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:Originally posted by ludosti: While the placebo effect likely accounts for the people feeling better, it is disturbing for them to think "feeling better" = "I'm cured".
That is one of the scariest parts to me.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by neo-dragon:
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
quote:The only problem is that people are giving up their conventional medication, so someone needs to encourage them to take both.
Um, they are encouraging that. Well, until they get booted out of the country, that is.
Yeah, I mean the guy who's giving the "cure" should say that it works best in conjunction with the other medicine or something.
Ah, I see. When you said "someone needs to", I foolishly assumed you meant that someone needs to, not that one particular person needs to. Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
Some people just don't know how to read between the lines.
Sorry, I should clarify; I mean you. Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
What a horrible thing to do. This is one of the reasons "alternative" medicine isn't harmless--it causes people to stop using conventional treatment that has been demonstrated to work. And if it really did work, it would be silly to refuse to submit it to testing that would provide solid evidence that it is more effective than current treatments. I wonder what the president's motive is. Profit? Increasing his power over his people? Has he convinced himself that it works (but then why not allow it to be tested)?
I also agree with Storm Saxon that this is a lot like "faith healers." I don't have a problem with people believing that prayer can heal, so long as it's a supplement, not a substitute, for medical care. It's the people who hold huge gatherings and claim to be able to cure anything who are like this man. They fleece their followers and give nothing but false hope in return.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Also, if they think they are cured, they are more likely to spread the virus.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by neo-dragon: Some people just don't know how to read between the lines.
Sorry, I should clarify; I mean you.
Even though that's a completely unfounded statement from this conversation we just had, it also happens also be completely true.
Posted by PrometheusBound (Member # 10020) on :
This seems to be very common in Africa. The Minister for Health for South Africa, the wealthiest and most western of all sub-Saharan states, surports this sort of thing.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: The recipe, "seven herbs and spices", sounds a lot like the secret recipe at KFC.
KFC has eleven herbs and spices. I proclaim it cures brain cancer! My ancestors told me so, in a dream!
-Bok
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen:
quote:Originally posted by ludosti: While the placebo effect likely accounts for the people feeling better, it is disturbing for them to think "feeling better" = "I'm cured".
That is one of the scariest parts to me.
Exactly. Especially since this is a communicable disease.
--- Edited to add: Or, what kmboots said.
Posted by Counter Bean (Member # 10176) on :
Sex with a virgin is supposed to work as a cure to, imagine what this does to the age you have to go too to find a virgin, and the number of young girls violated and infected...
Still it is a kind of win win, the fatalities will decrease the spread of AIDS or the cure will work...
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Yes. Luckily, AIDS kills within a day or two after you acquire the HIV virus, so you don't live long enough to pass it on.
Oh wait, that's bullshit.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
See, now I'm all confused, Icky, because now you used that word in a way that that, to me, is spot on.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bokonon:
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: The recipe, "seven herbs and spices", sounds a lot like the secret recipe at KFC.
KFC has eleven herbs and spices. I proclaim it cures brain cancer!
And it tastes like chicken!
Posted by Counter Bean (Member # 10176) on :
Some think HIV does not kill at all... However anything that speeds the process up would effect the statistics over time.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
My dog, the cup of tea leaves in front of me and the arrangement of chicken bones I threw on the floor tell me this is bull.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote:Originally posted by neo-dragon: If I may play Devil's advocate, this stuff is indeed likely causing a placebo effect, and thus it is at least doing good by making people feel better. Having it tested and exposed as just sugar-water, so to speak, would ruin the effect.
The only problem is that people are giving up their conventional medication, so someone needs to encourage them to take both.
This is just plain wrong on so many levels that it is hard for me to respond civilly.
It is NEVER acceptable to lie to people about their health and their treatment options.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote:Originally posted by Counter Bean: Some think HIV does not kill at all... However anything that speeds the process up would effect the statistics over time.
Very few people believe that. People who matter, are educated, and who don't talk out their ass all the time.
I am not surprised you don't know any of them.
Posted by Euripides (Member # 9315) on :
quote:Originally posted by ludosti:
This sounds a little too much to me like the "sleep with a virgin to cure AIDS" idea...
What!? I must have missed that 'cure.'
quote:Originally posted by Shigosei:
I don't have a problem with people believing that prayer can heal, so long as it's a supplement, not a substitute, for medical care.
I have a problem with it even when it's just a supplement. It takes credit away from the true source of the cure - the medically trained professional.
Exceptions are situations where the patient explicitly recognises that the benefits of prayer are restricted to putting one in a calmer or more confident state of mind; which may have health effects. In that way, prayer is effectively the same as the visualization exercises some doctors encourage their cancer patients to try, which involves manifesting the disease in one's imagination, and then fighting or crushing it (or really any form of meditation exercise).
quote:Originally posted by Counter Bean:
Still it is a kind of win win, the fatalities will decrease the spread of AIDS or the cure will work...
That wasn't funny.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by ludosti:
This sounds a little too much to me like the "sleep with a virgin to cure AIDS" idea... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What!? I must have missed that 'cure.'
Yeah, that belief contributes to the excessively high (more than 50%, last I heard) rape rate in South Africa. (Yes, you read that right-- last I heard, more than 50% of all women AND GIRLS have been raped.) That includes an alarmingly high rate of child rape, including infants, sometimes as young as six months. Posted by Euripides (Member # 9315) on :
I was going to use 3 crying graemlins, but somehow the levity of multiple emoticons seemed inappropriate.
Posted by foundling (Member # 6348) on :
(from the linked article) "The offence is situated firmly outside the generally, and clinically accepted diagnostic criteria of paedophilia as defined in the Diagnostic Statistics Manual of Mental Disorders [DSM IV]."
I dont understand this. Child rape is outside the bounds of paedophilia? Isnt a basic definition of paedophilia sexual attraction to children? I understand that most cases of child rape related to the "Virgin Cure" are opportunistic and not premeditated. But, they still involve sexual intercourse with a child. In our society, wouldnt anybody who did this, regardless of motivation, be labeled a paedophiliac? To me, taking away the stigma of paedophilia from child rape where the motive is a "cure" is a very, very bad idea. It seems to put it on a level that, while serious, is not as... universally detested as paedophilia is. I know that every society has different standards for when childhood ends and sexual maturity begins. But NO society accepts sex with an INFANT as being anything other than disgusting.
Something that I find fascinating and horrifying about this is the fact that SO MANY men are able to set aside an instinctive aversion to sexual attraction to young children, and only because they fear for thier lives. What a terrifying thought, that fear can motivate a very large group of people to do something so incredibly harmful to their next generation. Can you imagine the repurcussions this level of sexual violence directed at very young children is going to have in 5, 10, 20 years? Each individual act is reprehensible, but taken together they represent a truly horrifying picture of what humans are capable of.
Posted by Euripides (Member # 9315) on :
There was a psychological experiment I once read about which suggested that men typically exhibit an instinctive sexual attraction towards young (about 12 years old) children; in fact, in that study the sexual arousal exhibited towards children was greater than that exhibited towards adults (it involved showing a sample group of men slides, with equipment to detect erection). I'd imagine it would be different with infants though.
I'm not condoning paedophilic behaviour or rape in any way shape or form; just suggesting that this "instinctive aversion to sexual attraction to young children" is actually a cultural construct which exists for very good reasons.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
quote:I dont understand this. Child rape is outside the bounds of paedophilia? Isnt a basic definition of paedophilia sexual attraction to children?
Presumably they are saying that this form of rape doesn't involve sexual attraction. In a somewhat similar vein, and without wanting to turn this into an onanism thread, very few people are attracted to their right hands, but nevertheless.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
How in the world can people believe something so foolish?
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
A lot of people everywhere believe a lot of superstitions and illogical things. How many people at least in passing are concerned that breaking a mirror will bring them bad luck?
-pH
Posted by Counter Bean (Member # 10176) on :
What they need to do is go out in the moonlight with a dead cat in cemetary, then you dig a hole near the fresh grave of a wicked man, spin the the cat three times over your head...
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
That's for curing warts.
Posted by Counter Bean (Member # 10176) on :
What I want to know is when the forced immigrant descendants from Africa will start having a 'thank you white folk' day for bringing them here away from that world...
Posted by maui babe (Member # 1894) on :
quote:Originally posted by King of Men:
quote:I dont understand this. Child rape is outside the bounds of paedophilia? Isnt a basic definition of paedophilia sexual attraction to children?
Presumably they are saying that this form of rape doesn't involve sexual attraction. In a somewhat similar vein, and without wanting to turn this into an onanism thread, very few people are attracted to their right hands, but nevertheless.
Rape is a crime of power and domination, and is not caused by an overwhelming desire or passion for the victim. Sexual attraction has nothing to do with it - ever.
Posted by foundling (Member # 6348) on :
quote:Originally posted by Counter Bean: What I want to know is when the forced immigrant descendants from Africa will start having a 'thank you white folk' day for bringing them here away from that world...
You mean descendants of slaves? Oh, I imagine they'll have a "Thank You White Folk" day right around the time we have a "Holy Crap, We're Sorry For Taking Away Your Best and Brightest, Leaving Your Civilization To Wallow In Chaos And Destruction More Than A Century Later And Assuming That We Couldnt Have ANYTHING To Do With Your Current Situation" day.
I think they're more likely to celebrate a "White Folk Have Finally Given Up their Interventionist, Inherently Predjudiced Against Anyone With Skin A Color Other Than White Policies" day.
Posted by Counter Bean (Member # 10176) on :
Tell me foundling, how did the 'best and brightest' get captured by their fellows and sold in the first place? In the society of Africa the slaves were only kept alive because they had value as slaves, otherwise they faced death as losers in battle. It was a tough break but the decendants exist and are in a better place because it happened.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
Chango says this guy's lying. At least that's how I'm interpreting these goat innards, that is.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Stop it, just stop it. You don't really know anything about African history or anything else for that matter...
Posted by foundling (Member # 6348) on :
quote:Originally posted by Counter Bean: Tell me foundling, how did the 'best and brightest' get captured by their fellows and sold in the first place? In the society of Africa the slaves were only kept alive because they had value as slaves, otherwise they faced death as losers in battle. It was a tough break but the decendants exist and are in a better place because it happened.
I'm literally laughing out loud right now. ::wipes eyes:: I dont really know where to start with refuting your "arguments", but I think my first suggestion would be for you to read a book on the subject. Most likely any book vaguely related to slavery during this time period will do. Unless, of course, it's written by an apologist or a member of the KKK. While their opinions may in fact coincide with your own, it's highly unlikely that you'll find reputable, solid information in such a book.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Guys? This is the most obvious example of stupid trolling I've seen in a long time. How about let's all just ignore it for the junk it is, and act as though Counter Bean simply hadn't said anything at all in this thread?
This discussion will be much improved, I guarantee it.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
But he keeps being so stupid... and I'm so sensitive and annoyed by that sort of thing these days. In fact, I am burned out...
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:Originally posted by Euripides: There was a psychological experiment I once read about which suggested that men typically exhibit an instinctive sexual attraction towards young (about 12 years old) children; in fact, in that study the sexual arousal exhibited towards children was greater than that exhibited towards adults (it involved showing a sample group of men slides, with equipment to detect erection). I'd imagine it would be different with infants though.
I'm not condoning paedophilic behaviour or rape in any way shape or form; just suggesting that this "instinctive aversion to sexual attraction to young children" is actually a cultural construct which exists for very good reasons.
I have a hard time conceiving that anyone could be sexually attracted to a baby. A baby is a lot different from a 12-year-old.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
(And now I think I'm going to go throw up.)
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I can't think about it. It's too sickening, too depressing. There's a difference between not breaking mirrors or stepping on cracks and something as horrible as this.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Rape is a crime of power and domination, and is not caused by an overwhelming desire or passion for the victim. Sexual attraction has nothing to do with it - ever.
This is often stated as a truism, but I really don't believe that it's true always in every single rape which has ever happened.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I have to agree. Sexual attraction could be in addition to power and domination. Or the sexual attraction could be toward the power and domination-- I would think this would have to be true or, you know, it wouldn't work. In any case, I don't think it has NOTHING to do with rape-- just maybe not in the way one might think.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote:Originally posted by Counter Bean: Tell me foundling, how did the 'best and brightest' get captured by their fellows and sold in the first place? In the society of Africa the slaves were only kept alive because they had value as slaves, otherwise they faced death as losers in battle. It was a tough break but the decendants exist and are in a better place because it happened.
I love making you sound stupid....it's not like it is hard, after all....
...but it is so much better when you do it all by yourself.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I can very easily believe that in many cases, rape is primarily about power.
But, for example, I find it hard to believe that every guy who gets a girl drunk to have sex with her does it purely out for power. I find it much easier to believe that for some of them, part of the motivation is to get laid.
Posted by Euripides (Member # 9315) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen:
A baby is a lot different from a 12-year-old.
I know; I explicitly made that distinction.
It's not only the rape of infants we are talking about here.
Posted by Euripides (Member # 9315) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh:
Guys? This is the most obvious example of stupid trolling I've seen in a long time. How about let's all just ignore it for the junk it is, and act as though Counter Bean simply hadn't said anything at all in this thread?
This discussion will be much improved, I guarantee it.
Amen. Posted by Counter Bean (Member # 10176) on :
The case was stated that the slaves represented the "best and brightest" how anyone can argue that people, on their own turf caught by men completely unsuited by temperment and development to the climate and place are the 'winners' and not the losers is beyond me.
That only applies to the tiny fraction that were taken by white slavers instead of those caught by black native slavers. Same thing applies to them, the best and brightest were the ones raiding villages and selling their neighbors.
Posted by foundling (Member # 6348) on :
If by best and brightest you mean morally bankrupt and inherently evil, then yes, I can see your point.
(edited for needless insults) Many, many people have made the case that it was indeed the cream of the crop that got taken into slavery right off the bat. It wasnt only the best, but the most desirable(in many ways) were taken first, for obvious reasons. Again, I'd like to suggest that you do some research on the subject.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: Guys? This is the most obvious example of stupid trolling I've seen in a long time. How about let's all just ignore it for the junk it is, and act as though Counter Bean simply hadn't said anything at all in this thread?
This discussion will be much improved, I guarantee it.
quote:Rape is a crime of power and domination, and is not caused by an overwhelming desire or passion for the victim. Sexual attraction has nothing to do with it - ever.
While this is probably true of back-alley type rape, I agree with others that it certainly doesn't apply to all instances of date rape.
Posted by Counter Bean (Member # 10176) on :
quote:If by best and brightest you mean morally bankrupt and inherently evil, then yes, I can see your point.
I mean 'winners' in the struggle for local dominance, and all men are inherently immoral. Morality is learned, however there are some sorting mechanisms in the transport system, sale mechanism and breeding processes that might create some improvements from an African 'normal' even if the initial stock came from the wrong side of the bell curve. There were also some negative pressures as well (we like em big and dumb) but while a small man can't pretend to be big, a smart one can sure learn to play dumb. (did it myself to get through boot) Also one cannot discount the advantages gained from hybridizing, it may well be that the American black sub-race of black Afican is superior on average, or was at one point, the environment in Africa is more hostile then here so it is going to take a better man of any kind to survive at this point in history.
As far as social evolution, I would place the American black culture far above what we find in Africa, except in a few local areas where it looks about the same.
It would be very interesting to study dispassionately and calculate what the genetic and social advantage gap is in material wealth, health, longevity and education from an African base line. I am sure it is considerable, all for a legacy of forced labor abandoned over a century ago.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:What I want to know is when the forced immigrant descendants from Africa will start having a 'thank you white folk' day for bringing them here away from that world...
We'll get those ungrateful bastards on that right away.
PS: Your words are painfully stupid. Like, they cause people physical pain as they squash out otherwise useful brain cells.
Posted by Counter Bean (Member # 10176) on :
You have not shown that you possess any that can suffer harm (that is useful)
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
OW
Oho, a cunning angle. You're going after the brain cells which decipher mangled grammar.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
And by using a variation of the "I'm rubber; you're glue" defense, he wins the hearts of schoolchildren everywhere. Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Mockery doesn't make him go away. It only entices him to post in more threads.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen:
quote:It’d be up there with Penicillin.
I read a great book on the development of penicillin, and it was a lot more than just, "Hey, look, bread mold kills other germs!" I can look it up for you if you're interested. It was really well written.
I thought it was orange mold. No?
Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
Hmmm... Well, I suppose we should withhold judgement on this issue until we determine if any of these people are actually cured. The article doesn't say one way or another - although you'd think it be easy to test if they still have the disease or not.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:although you'd think it be easy to test if they still have the disease or not.
Except that no one is being allowed to do that.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen:
quote:It’d be up there with Penicillin.
I read a great book on the development of penicillin, and it was a lot more than just, "Hey, look, bread mold kills other germs!" I can look it up for you if you're interested. It was really well written.
I thought it was orange mold. No?
Both, actually. The particular variety of mold is extremely common, and can grow on fruit and grain products, among other things.
Yummy!
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I do not understand the intense anger that is being projected at this man.
Ill preface my response with some quick statements, 1: I doubt this treatment works 2: I doubt any of you have studied the treatment.
The article says NOTHING about the validity of the treatment. I understand the viruses cannot just be treated with medicine, at least any medicine WE have. So why not just do a quick examination of the treatment and its results? Why are we so quick to judge just because the treatment seems so simple? If it doesn't work it would EASY to show it doesn't. If it does, what does that make all of you?
Comparing this to the rumor that having sex with a virgin would cure the disease is not even remotely similar. If one of the herbs in the concoction was poisonous or dangerous then SURE do a study on it and educate people if it does not.
But don't scream and rail just because you don't like the mode of delivery for the cure. Scream and rail after the concoction has been proven worthless or worse.
At least this man acknowledges AIDS, why don't you go read up on Robert Mugabe? He calls AIDS a western created fabrication and the medicines we try to ship to the people of Zimbabwe at COST to treat it, poison designed to make us rich and kill all of them.
I just don't understand why you folks in a situation that appears mostly cut and dry are already angry and ready to condemn this man.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
quote:So why not just do a quick examination of the treatment and its results? Why are we so quick to judge just because the treatment seems so simple?
Because, as has been pointed out multiple times, the guy has forbidden this approach. That's the evil that people are screaming about. If it does indeed work, and yet we can't get the medicine to test that, what does that make our friend?
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by King of Men:
quote:So why not just do a quick examination of the treatment and its results? Why are we so quick to judge just because the treatment seems so simple?
Because, as has been pointed out multiple times, the guy has forbidden this approach. That's the evil that people are screaming about. If it does indeed work, and yet we can't get the medicine to test that, what does that make our friend?
Oh I am sorry, I somehow missed that. I agree that if he forbids testing thats pretty shady business. Wouldn't it still be pretty easy to get a hold of the concoction and test it anyway? Forensics should be able to identify every substance in it.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:Comparing this to the rumor that having sex with a virgin would cure the disease is not even remotely similar. If one of the herbs in the concoction was poisonous or dangerous then SURE do a study on it and educate people if it does not.
The major problem with this "cure" is that if people think they are cured when they are not, they may continue to spread the disease (apart from the not taking their anti-retrovirals thing.) And as KoM just reiterated, it is impossible to know whether it is working because no one is allowed to find out.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: Oh I am sorry, I somehow missed that. I agree that if he forbids testing thats pretty shady business. Wouldn't it still be pretty easy to get a hold of the concoction and test it anyway? Forensics should be able to identify every substance in it.
When you are being forced to leave the country if you even suggest testing it, and the patients do not appear to be in a position to cooperate in smuggling some out, I am not sure that getting ahold of it is quite that simple. If a doctor or nurse was recruited to help it might be possible, but I would say still fairly difficult, given the fear of retribution by the leader of the country.
Posted by BlueWizard (Member # 9389) on :
While I don't necessarily believe that what I am about to say is motivating this particular leader; the one with the alledged cure, it none the less has a grain of truth in it.
If this person gives up the specific information about the 'herbal cure', then he has essentually give up all rights to it. Right now the Africans can concoct it from locally grown herbs. But if the big pharmaceutical companies get a hold of it, and find a way to determine the underlying 'active' ingredient. They will then try to sell it back to Africa where it is most needed at an astronomical price.
If the can't synthasize it, then they will corner the market on all the herbs. One way or another, if outsiders are allowed to access this information, then they will find a way to control the market.
There is very little in my opinion to justify the price of current AIDS drugs beyond the fact that the pharmaceutical companies hold your life in their hands, any you will therefore pay whatever they ask to keep from dying.
Though, more realistically, it probably bogus and they aren't releasing it because they don't want to be proven wrong. Much better to live in cheap denial that to face expensive and inevitable reality.
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