Ok, so the forums are back for now -- we got the phishing spam problem solved. However, we will still be moving to new software some time in the not too distant future, so be aware. We should be able to provide a little more advance notice before that happens, though.
No info yet on the sister forums (Ornery, Nauvoo, et al), but I'll post when I get it.
--PJ
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
*jumps on PJ and hugs him* Papa!!! So nice to see you back at Hatrack!
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
Heh. It kills me how much posting happened before Papa was even able to welcome us back. We are rabid lunatics, that's what we are.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
So now the race for the last post begins.
Posted by Papa Janitor (Member # 7795) on :
The other forums should be up "very soon." And I think Hatrack's return has been an excellent anniversary present for me and Mama Squirrel.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Awww! Happy anniversary!
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
I was beginning to suffer from withdrawal.
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
I missed you guys! Without Hatrack (fount of all knowledge), I feel tragically ignorant.
Posted by scottneb (Member # 676) on :
<-- Is tragically ignorant.
Posted by aiua (Member # 7825) on :
This made my day!
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
So was it the Google Ad exploit as suggested in my Other Technical Issues email? Or the Microsoft cursor exploit?
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
Man, I was going in withdrawal as well.
Good to have hatrack back
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Yay! And a big thank you to Pop, the webmaster, the Cards, and whoever else helped bring Hatrack back!
Happy Anniversary, Moose & Squirrel. Posted by Euripides (Member # 9315) on :
PJ, has OSC expressed any preferences for forum software? If not, do you know if he as he considered Vanilla or Simple Machines?
Posted by Perplexity'sDaughter (Member # 9668) on :
A lot happened for me while the forums were down- I got married! Ü
Posted by Jutsa Notha Name (Member # 4485) on :
For a professional writer's website I would seriously recommend NOT using the free offerings out there. While they aren't bad, they do not scale well and have many aspects of support or lack of it that will ultimately cause more trouble than they're worth unless the webmaster is also a decent programmer. I recommend vBulletin since it is the most common and has bar none the best unified support system of any forum software out there, free or for pay.
Posted by Zanejin (Member # 6318) on :
Yes, I agree with Jutsa. I prefer either vBulletin or Invision Power Board, though both are priced pretty heavily.
Posted by aiua (Member # 7825) on :
Congrats, PD! That's certainly exciting. :]
Posted by RackhamsRazor (Member # 5254) on :
YAY! It works!
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
*hugs Hatrack*
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Aw, Hatrack. I missed you. Who knew that the internet would become such a boring place without you?
Posted by Troubadour (Member # 83) on :
The colour's gotta stay tho, no matter *what* the forum software is....
Posted by Papa Janitor (Member # 7795) on :
I don't think any decisions are set in stone at this point. I know both SMF and Vanilla were given as suggestions, and they were leaning heavily toward SMF. Jutsa and/or Zanejin (and I welcome you), if you could explain a little more about your concerns and be as specific as possible, I'll make sure that this thread is brought to the attention of the decision-makers. Anyone else who has an opinion is certainly welcome to share it, but matters of personal preference may take a back seat to utility.
Talk was of the current forum being kept in an archive format, and the new forums starting over with new registrations and all new threads. We'd make every effort to ensure that people could keep their currently registered names (those who are still around) and even (for a reasonable time) change registration dates and/or post counts to those of the current incarnation for those who consider it important.
I'll try to answer questions as I can, but know that I don't have all the answers. Never have, actually.
--PJ
Posted by krynn (Member # 524) on :
yes! the shakes from withdrawal are starting to ease up. i missed what all of you have to say so much.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
I'm happy the problem was fixed, even if it's just a stop-gap till new software is chosen. The important thing is the board is back up. Thanks to the Cards, Papa, and anyone involved in fixing the spamming issue!
Happy Anniversary Papa Moose and Mama Squirrel! Congratulations Perplexity's Daughter! Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Pop, have you heard anything about when the other fora will be back up?
Posted by Lavalamp (Member # 4337) on :
I would just like to say that I think it's overkill to bring the whole forum down just because you got tired of locking threads, PJ.
Seriously! Lighten up, dood!
(happy anniversary Moose & Squirrel!)
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
Thanks Pop.
And Happy Anniversary!
Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
Hallelujah! Praise Xenu it's back!
*kisses the ground*
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Hey, I missed you guys. Nice to see you all back again.
Posted by RunningBear (Member # 8477) on :
Huzzah!!
Posted by Pat (Member # 879) on :
Posted by David G (Member # 8872) on :
I'm glad the forum is up and running again.
But I must say that in the last week while the forum was down, my billable hours at the office increased by over 30%. This forum evidently costs me a lot of money. (I'm sure it's well worth the cost, however.)
Posted by Dragon (Member # 3670) on :
YAY!
I have to say I'm really glad it came back yesterday, when I was really busy, rather than earlier when I was checking it every few hours. This way I can pretend my addiction isn't that bad. "No, I didn't even go to Hatrack the first day it was back!"
Posted by SoaPiNuReYe (Member # 9144) on :
Hoorah!
Posted by Jutsa Notha Name (Member # 4485) on :
quote:Originally posted by Papa Janitor: I don't think any decisions are set in stone at this point. I know both SMF and Vanilla were given as suggestions, and they were leaning heavily toward SMF. Jutsa and/or Zanejin (and I welcome you), if you could explain a little more about your concerns and be as specific as possible, I'll make sure that this thread is brought to the attention of the decision-makers. Anyone else who has an opinion is certainly welcome to share it, but matters of personal preference may take a back seat to utility.
Talk was of the current forum being kept in an archive format, and the new forums starting over with new registrations and all new threads. We'd make every effort to ensure that people could keep their currently registered names (those who are still around) and even (for a reasonable time) change registration dates and/or post counts to those of the current incarnation for those who consider it important.
I'll try to answer questions as I can, but know that I don't have all the answers. Never have, actually.
--PJ
I am starting from the assumption that the webmasters and the Cards would prefer to keep as much of the forum in its present state as possible, including registered members, while moving to a software that is going to have a better guarantee for security and possibly have a method of support to go along with it. I am thinking long term in this regard, since this forum has enjoyed a lengthy existence already and numerous people are invested in it in one form or another.
The main reasons for my suggesting vBulletin are twofold: 1. Transfer of the old forum contents to the new one. The makers of vBulletin have a separate module that can be installed that can port the contents of another forum software over to the new vBulletin install. Many different forums have these converters, but none that I can think of have the ability to port over from as many different forum softwares as vBulletin. Numerous versions of UBB are able to be transferred easily, and I believe the version this forum is on is one of them.
2. Support, Support, Support. I cannot stress this enough. Most free software out there have forums or email lists you can join and receive nominal support. It certainly can be helpful, but there is no guarantee that your problems will be resolved. With vBulletin you are paying for the support, and $30 annually also gets you any and all version updates and upgrades. In this you also receive free email support directly from their support staff, which is more specific to your case and follows your problem to a resolution. This can include, at times, having vBulleting support personel creating a temporary user account on the customer's forum to narrow the problem down and discern the proper solution. This isn't completely absent from other software out there, but it is not common or standard like it is with vBulletin.
The initial cost is more and continued support after the first year does have the $30 US fee, but the price of both the license and the subsequent support are both relatively low compared to the service that the licensee is getting. There is security with regard to patches or updates because they are released quickly and the customer can be notified of updates if desired. Because the customer is paying for the service, support is typically more geared toward individual resolution than the average free forum software. I am not making direct comparison to any individual software out there because I haven't had experience with all of them. I have had some experience with a few free softwares out there, and have conversely dealt with three vBulletin installs. The latter have had better support and better track records for security on their servers, and the cost was low enough that some of those installs were for personal sites.
Since this forum seems to have already been a target for exploitation, I strongly suggest taking the more sure route instead of risking a software that a similar exploitation could inadvertently occur. Something like SMF may have a lower chance of being exploited than something like phpBB, but I am arguing that vBulletin is the better chance than the others. From an operational standpoint, the free offerings often experience problems when the forum databases grow to larger sizes and have incredibly large user bases as well. There is less likelihood of being able to transfer the posts, settings, and users from this forum over to some of the free software packages. The webmaster here will receive dedicated support specifically to this forum with the support option vBulletin provides. I have not done so myself, but I have been told vBulletin is easier to reskin and transfer those skins to updates and upgrades later on than other software packages. For these reasons I believe vBulletin is a better long term option.
Posted by Zanejin (Member # 6318) on :
To me, Vanilla is definitely not an option when there are far superior alternatives that are also open-source and highly flexible (in terms of adding modifications and themes); it's simply too simple and reliant on third-party modifications, not to mention awkwardly (or perhaps "uniquely" would be a fairer word here) organized.
The remaining popular options would then be Invision Power Board, vBulletin, SMF, and phpBB. The first two are paid software (respective prices at http://www.invisionboard.com/board/purchase.html and http://www.vbulletin.com/order/). I personally find both of them priced quite high, so, as Jutsa said, unless it is certain that fast, professional support is necessary (be sure to inquire with the company's pre-sales division what, exactly, the support covers), I would turn to free alternatives. In terms of features, IPB and vB absolutely have more than SMF and phpBB. At the same time, however, I doubt that all of these features are truly necessary, as the Hatrack Forums currently seem quite minimalist in design, and SMF and phpBB can definitely provide all features of this installation of UBB.
For runtime efficiency, those of all four are quite similar for smaller forums (judging by users and posts). For larger forums (let's say around at least 100,000 posts, 1000 replies per thread, and 5000 registered users), the current stable version of phpBB (2.0.x) falls way behind the others (phpBB 3.0.x is in development, and has many, many improvements over 2.0.x, but the final public release will not be for a while, by my predictions based on how frequently the beta versions have been released).
For themability, all four are good, with a large amount of pre-made themes available online, and with excellent theming systems that merely require knowledge of HTML, CSS, and perhaps XML.
For ease of installing modifications, SMF is the best, as it has a great internal automated system that doesn't require more work than a few clicks. Of course, installing modifications is only necessary if more features are desired.
For the availability of converters for UBB, IPB (http://invisionboard.com/board/convert.html) and SMF (http://www.simplemachines.org/download/?converters) definitely offer free tools. phpBB most likely has one somewhere, but their website is new and incomplete. vB should be able to handle it, maybe at additional price (again, this is something to ask the pre-sales division).
Finally, in terms of security, phpBB 2.0.x is not an option at all; some phpBB installations I browse through are plagued by daily spambots. I'm pretty sure, though, that phishing attacks are secured against. Unwanted operations are commonly prevented through a CAPTCHA system, and phpBB's is weak, while those of the others are strong.
Now, reading through my words, I would omit phpBB from the list of options. Go with IPB or vB if paid software is desired for the professional support, and go with SMF if free software is desired.
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
Any info on when the other fora might be back up?
Posted by Papa Janitor (Member # 7795) on :
Looks like Nauvoo, Ornery, and Strongverse all went back up this morning. Fresco is still down, and both Starshine and Shadows and Taleswapper haven't had forums installed yet. Am I missing any?
Thank you both Jutsa and Zane for the information you've given.
--PJ
[ May 05, 2007, 01:19 AM: Message edited by: Papa Janitor ]
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Yay for Hatrack!
Posted by Jutsa Notha Name (Member # 4485) on :
I just wanted to add to Zanejin's comment on converters. The converter for vBulletin is only available to paid licensees, but I can verify from past experience that it has multiple versions of UBB supported for conversion.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:Originally posted by Papa Janitor: Looks like Nauvoo, Ornery, and Strongverse all went back up this morning. Fresco is still down, and both Starshine and Shadows and Taleswapper haven't had forums installed yet. Am I missing any?
As far as I can tell, the enemy's gate is still down.
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