First off, I need to stress that I liked the movie. The stuff that annoyed me wasn't enough to detract from the good stuff; the good stuff wasn't enough to make me forget the problems. But this is far and away better than, say, "X-Men 3."
The acting was the best out of the three, but the plot was the worst. Go figure. Still bummed we don't have the wiseass Spidey and this Peter Parker goes pie-eyed whenever emotion is required, but that's not specific to this movie. The crane rescue sequence is amazing. This is the Spider-Man I love to see, someone who uses everything to do what he needs to do. Push off from falling concrete, use webs to change his direction at whiplash speed, and enough attention to physics to satsfy my inner critic. The one model that just happened to fall was also Pete's lab partner and the police captain's daughter and the new photographer's love interest. Is that all? Couldn't she also have been Sandman's sister-in-law, Harry's old tennis partner, and Doc Ock's dog walker? He saved the cute girl, I guess there's plenty of time to chat with Brock and ignore the falling slabs of concrete, the people still in danger in the building, and the flailing crane and trapped crane operator. If the problem with Mary Jane was that her voice didn't carry, wouldn't that have been noticed in rehearsals? Loving the acting, Dunst's best yet. Pity she's playing such a whiny, noncommunicative person. Loved the Sandman intro. Beautiful creation scene, making up for a pretty lame origin involving the stupidest (but most attractive) scientists ever who not only don't visually monitor their nighttime experiment, they don't follow up and do tests after it's over. The meteorite finding the one superhero in NY was too strained. Better to have it infect other people and move around to stronger and stronger victims, maybe overwhelming each one, until it found one strong enough (Peter). This badly needed its own movie. The Pete/Harry fight was fantastic. No compaints about the ffects at all, I think they're getting better every time. The amnesia thing? I'll put up with it, only because it doesn't last long. How can Pete accept a staff photography job? He's a full-time student and part-time superhero! And staff photographers have to take pictures of more than just Spider-Man. Then again, we never see Pete in any class besides the one, so maybe he's part-time. JJ is, as always, perfect. Really liking Brock. Foreman is a total jerk. Why, oh why must they screw with Uncle Ben's death? There's no other way to get Peter dark fast enough? "Lay one on me." Nice. Loved the first Sandman fight. The audience jumped when Spidey got smacked into the front of a bus. Sand in the boots: hilarious. How does Sandman fly? He can control sand, he can't control wind. Great casting on Sandman, by the way. Thomas Hayden Church nails it and looks great. Shouldn't MJ and Pete take five minutes and talk? or would that ruin movies, if people did that? Gwen is completely wasted. Not that the actress didn't do a good job, but this could easily have been done with Betty Brant, or a new girl. OK if they're setting up characters for later movies, lame if this is the only time you see her. Again, Venom needed its own movie. I liked the evil Peter stuff -- he's still a dork, he's just a more confident dork -- but where was the increasingly violent crimestopping? I would have liked to have seen less strutting and more mugger-whipping, with the populace starting to wonder about this new, brutal hero. 2nd Spidey-Sandman fight: still fun to watch, but I never got the sense that the new suit helped any. Loved the Brock embarassment, even though staff photographers don't get a desk like that. They get a station in an office with lots of monitors, stacks of CDs and zip disks, camera equipment, and usually at least a small studio for feature pics. Loved the scenes with the landlord and his daughter. "Another cookie? Get me some milk." What a dick. The 2nd Pete/Harry fight: again, they've got fights down cold. Nice line at the end from a vindictive Peter. If Peter didn't know sound hurt the symbiote, why did he go to the church tower? Venom looks perfect, the closest to the comic version yet. How did Venom find Sandman so fast? Why did Sandman, who has been carefully spun to be basically a non-murderous guy with bad luck, agree to help kill Spider-Man? How did the press not pick up on the fact that MJ gets nabbed by every superbaddie in NY? Peter's mask needs a chin strap, it comes off with a strong breeze. Everybody is crying! Everybody! After the fifth different character was seen with a single tear rolling down the cheek, the audience just started laughing. If the news cameras are good enough to close up on MJ in a cab 80 stories up, how come they never got a shot of Pete with his mask off? Why was it MJ and not Gwen? Would Brock want to get back at both of them? Where was the dual nature of Venom? "We are not pleased, Parker..." Overall I liked the Spidey-Venom-Sandman fight. Liked MJ hitting Venom with a cinder block, the brutal beating of Spider-Man, etc. But did you get the feeling Sandman's heart isn't in it? Dumping a few tons of sand on Spidey would have done it. The big sand monster? Not so much. Liked Harry's rescue, even if the Exposition Butler was pretty hokey. Final fight was good, liked the Spidey-Goblin teamwork. Venom's explosion leaves him alive for later. Finally! A living Spidey villain! Hated, hated, hated the closing Sandman scene. tearful, overly done, and Harry is freaking dying! Didn't much like Harry's death scene, but that may have been because by this point all the teary scenes just looked the same. I did like that Sandman is still alive, and that his daughter wasn't miraculously saved somehow. Why does Peter even wear a mask? Drawn out funeral, been there, done that. The MJ-Pete reconciliation scene was good. Kind of a down ending, though.
I think adding Venom was a huge mistake. (I also suspect, without proof, Raimi was forced to use him by Marvel; he really seems shoehorned in) Quickie armchair director advice: it should have been Sandman and the Lizard, with Peter dealing with the symbiote all through the movie and finally getting rid of it at the end, with Brock getting it in the final scene to set up Spider-Man.
Short of that, trim the strutting and phone call scenes to show the more violent Spider-Man, cut back on the waterworks, and fix the ending thusly: Sandman just vanishes, or Peter lets him go to deal with Harry. Death scene, funeral scene. Peter is left standing alone in the graveyard. He goes to Uncle Ben's grave and gets confronted by Sandman. Do the forgiveness bit there. More appropriate, and would tie in with Aunt Msy's words about Ben not liking revenge. "I forgive you. He'd want me to."
Still, I liked it, flaws and all. I'll see it again tonight and see what I think.
[ May 05, 2007, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: Chris Bridges ]
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chris Bridges: How does Sandman fly? He can control sand, he can't control wind.
For the same reason movieDoom had Electro and Colossus' powers, or movieCallisto was actually Lady Flash: Magic.
(At least, that's the only explanation I can come up with.)
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
I agree that it was better than X-3...but I wouldn't say far better.
The crane stuff is awesome. I also loved Spidey having sand crack problems
Why exactly did Harry Osborn become permanently scarred by his encounter with a pumpkin bomb, when Peter didn't?
They didn't spend nearly enough time investigating the symbiote. Peter is a scientist, before his love-affair with the thing really kicked in he would've been hardcore investigating it!
The location of the meteorite impact was absurd, but I was willing to swallow that as comic book koinky-dink.
Heh, also loved Brock...even the prayer-for-death (Parker's) scene, when I thought about it later, seemed like it should've been hokey, but it didn't.
Sandman was never one of Spidey's brain-trust villains, but why does he keep trying to rob banks and armored cars in broad daylight, exactly?
The landing in front of the flag...not good. Poorly handled and obviously intentional. Why not just have a flag prominent in the background? It doesn't have to be a Patton-esque scene!
The firing of MJ was hokey. She's got a cell-phone, her agent must have a cell-phone, it wouldn't come as a surprise.
Why exactly does she think Peter doesn't understand her problems? He's had to deal with critics in a way she never did.
Why exactly does Peter start out as a sort of self-absorbed insensitive jerk?
The meeting-up of Capt. Stacey and Brock was ridiculous.
The whole press-coverage and commentary on the four-way fight was silly.
Since when can Venom afford to spend hundreds and hundreds of yards of his own symbiote in order to make that gigantic web?
Since when does the symbiote come off? Peter was able to actually take the costume off, even though later on it appeared back on.
When Dr. Connors examined the symbiote, why wasn't he able to realize almost immediately, "EXTRATERRESTRIAL!!!"
Did Betty Brant install, like, six vibrating massagers all triggered simultaneously by that buzzer she's got to make JJ's desk shake that way? (Still, loved Jonah! )
Why doesn't Sandman ever change his clothes? Wear an overcoat?
Why hasn't Peter forced the issue with Harry before their fight, to talk about what happened?
Why didn't Mary Jane have, like, a little note wrapped in her hand to quietly and secretly pass to Peter at their forced rendezvous?
(Loved bad Harry)
When exactly did the Osborn family's servant go from disregarded housekeeping drone to trusted family confidant and beloved advisor?
Why did they have to have the incredibly hokey, stupid death of Harry?
Why didn't they have any spider-sense?!
Posted by SoaPiNuReYe (Member # 9144) on :
I wanted to see more of Venom. He was just too cool to die so soon after he was finally introduced into the story. Also when Toby McGuire started swinging his hips in front of the camera for the thousandth time, I got bored. He definetly looked like an emo when he had the black stuff on him. Sandman flies I think because he just vaporizes himself and then goes where the wind takes him. I don't think he actually controls where he goes in any real sequence of the movie. Personally, I liked seeing Harry and Parker friends after the amnesia thing, because Harry was the one supervillan, except maybe Sandman, that I really felt sorry for, especially after the fight between the two after MJ broke up with Parker. That fight was sweet.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I mentioned that my roommate was disappointed with the movie in the other thread. The reason why was because a) Venom lost a few of his trademarks (in particularly referring to himself as we) and b) Venom died after only being in the movie for maybe 30 minutes. He kept insisting that after the credits rolled there'd be a scene showing the symbiote still around so that way Venom could live on. He was really angry that there wasn't one. I tried to come up with theories of how Venom could come back (the little bit with Dr. Connors could work, another meteorite could come from space with more symbiotes, perhaps the symbiote spawned and we could have Carnage instead). He still wasn't satisfied though, and he said he thought that the juggling of 3 villain-like characters was probably too much and may have ruined the franchise.
Personally, I didn't have tons of problems with the movie. The plot played out like I predicted. I think my only issue was with the spider-sense stuff. The cool thing about Venom is that he is totally immune to the spider-sense, which is why he often surprises and beats up on Spider-Man. In this movie though, it's like his spider-sense was gone entirely and so Venom being immune to it was no big deal. Maybe this is just a minor thing though.
Oh, and was it just me or did anyone else want to slap Peter several times throughout the movie? Even before he got the new suit, he was just acting sort of stupid and making bad decisions. It just didn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Added more above.
Since when is there only one news station in New York? Where are the copters, the countless news vans, the hordes of reporters, CNN? And when was the last time you saw a TV news show without screen crawls and insets all over the place?
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Pete was overcome with the new and unaccustomed acceptance. I bought that part.
And yeah, some examples of his spider-sense working would have helped make the absence mean something.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Yeah. The whole "Parker Luck" thing usually comes in spite of Peter's decisions. In this film, it was more often than not because of them.
I was puzzled by the lack-of-Spider-sense thing too.
My biggest problem was probably using Gwen and her dad....two very loaded, pivotal characters from the mythos...in such a trite, dismissive way. Captain Stacy didn't need to be in the movie at all. Gwen could very easily have been replaced by Debra Whitman or another of the lesser-known Parker girlfriends.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
The Pete getting the big-head over his acceptance, yeah, I can dig that.
Posted by porcelain girl (Member # 1080) on :
I agree with Puffy, Gwen and Cap Stacy were TOTALLY wasted.
The movie was ridiculous. I had fun, but it was ridiculous.
(Did anyone feel like everyone was upshot the whole time?)
Posted by RunningBear (Member # 8477) on :
Well, I feel very simple, but I just enjoyed. Very good movie. very good.
Also I liked X3 very much.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
The only part I thought was utterly lame as the exposition butler. He couldn't, you know, mention this two movies ago? Before the revenge streak? Before the bomb destroyed half his face? Before the attempts at murder and dark obsession? You could say it took those things happening to convince him it was time to say something, but really - the decision being made at that moment was completely bizarre. It would have made more sense for Harry to have a series of flashbacks of good things and change his mind. The Sandman randmonly changed his mind and he didn't even have those good associations with Spidey and MJ.
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
I liked the movie a lot. I never read the Spiderman comics, so that could have an effect. The lack of communication problems (with MJ, Peter, and Harry) are obnoxious, but something I've come to expect of most movies and television. The butler thing bothered me as well. But for the most part, I laughed, jumped, and felt sad on cue- so I consider the movie a success.
Oh, and I did NOT like X3.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
He still had that upside down U on his face. I cannot be the only person who noticed it! I did like it, despite its imperfections.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
I haven't seen X3, but I feel like I ought.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I wondered about the butler as well....but I really liked this movie over all.
Posted by Snowman (Member # 10426) on :
I didn't like Sandman. I didn't like how characters survived the most deadly attacks, and then later died in a matter that wasn't any worse. Some explaining of their weaknesses might have helped that? I'm not a big fan of the special effects mania. I like the Matrix movies a lot, other than that though, nothing. I didn't like Emo Parker. Even some of the less flashy scenes were plain dumb. I don't like comic/superhero movies(X-Men is the rule breaker on that).
With that said, you would think I absolutely hated the movie, but no. I had a fun time. The audience reaction was nice. When Parker acted like a jerk, those were fun scenes, though his look didn't sit well with me. The humor didn't seem as forced as X3 was. I really liked the dark side of this movie.
Though I've always thought Spider-Man was the worst of the superheroes, so far they've made the best movies(not including X-Men of course).
Posted by Snail (Member # 9958) on :
I've only briefly read Spider-Man comics as a teenager, so I'm not a "true" fan, I guess, but I did enjoy the first two movies. With this one I was disappointed.
The Spider-Man movies really work exactly the same way as the X-Men movies, I feel. First there is an okay first part which is prevented from rising into greatness by the need to get the franchise going which leads to slight humorlessness and lots of hefty exposition. Then there is a great sequels which takes everything good from the first part and just adds more, more and more. In Spider-Man's case the sequel was more than great - in fact Spider-Man 2 is right up there as my second favorite superhero movie ever after Tim Burton's Batman Returns.
And then there's the third part which tries to cram way too much into the concept and in the end looses much of what was good with the first two films. In the case of the X-Men the third film was at least entertaining, I'm not sure I can say the same here.
There were good moments. Aunt May first giving Peter the ring. The scene where Sandman, after being created, tries to stay together long enough to stand. Harry and Mary Jane cooking together. (But then I love it when people cook together, and I'd happily watch a 2.5-hour movie with Spider-Man, Venom, Sandman and the Green Goblin cooking together, but alas it was not to be. Perhaps in Spider-Man 4?) The opening credits where they go through each significant scene from the first two films. In fact that was the most emotional moment in the movie for me - the opening credits. In a film where each major character cries at least once that's a clear indicator that something is wrong.
The reason I love the second movie so is that in it I really cared. I really cared for Peter and MJ, and wanted them to get each other. I cared for Peter's relationship with Aunt May. I cared for Peter's relationship with Harry, and I cared for Harry's anguish. I cared for Doctor Octopus and his sacrifice. I cared for the heroism. I cared for Spider-Man and what the public thought of him. I really wanted for things to go well for all of them.
In this film I felt absolutely nothing. Not when MJ got kicked out from her job, not when she left Peter alone in the restaurant, not when Harry lost his memory, not when Harry got back his memory, not when Harry died, not when Peter found out the truth about his uncle's death, not when Peter forgave the Sandman. A bit like X-Men 3, again, where I was watching the characters from previous films beat the **** out of each other without really any emotional connection whatsoever to what was going on at the movie screen.
The character's actions simply didn't make any sense this time around. It was always a bit hard for me to buy Harry's need to avenge his father as he and his father never got along that well to begin with, but things got definitely psycho in this film. I mean, Harry was pretty much emotionally scarred and controlled by his Dad, and I could see him eventually being led into trying to kill Peter from there, but I think in order for me to buy it they should have spend more time establishing what, actually, was he feeling, and why was he feeling so. Here he's simply all murderous rage until Batman's butler appears to tell him to go and help Peter. (That's another thing - where did that butler come from? So he's known everything all along and never told anyone? Huh? Huh?)
Or Mary Jane. First she's all lovey dovey with Harry, then Harry appears in psycho mode to force her to say horrible things to Peter, then she says those things and they both start to cry, yet she doesn't think to say "I'm only saying all this because Harry made me, by the way Harry is psycho and the plot of this film makes no sense".
Or Peter. Getting a suit that makes you more aggressive also makes you to dance like in a bad 70's dance movie? And what exactly was that jazz club scene? It was so out of sync with the rest of the movie I actually thought it was a dream sequence at first. Sam Raimi - first he takes camp out of comic book movies, then he brings it back.
The acting was good all the way through as has always been the case with the Spider-Man movies. (I especially enjoyed Topher Grace's performance.) But whenever the action/special effects stopped the direction was horrible. Sam Raimi just had everybody standing still in wide angle shots. This is painfully evident in the early scene where the Sandman has a conversation with his wife (?). A terribly well acted scene that is ruined by horrid directing - could the actors' positions be any more out of place? As a result it didn't feel like a real moment, just actors reciting their lines.
And the dialogue... ugh! I realize that it's a comic book movie and some bad dialogue is bound to happen, but not quite this much, surely!
All in all I give the movie 2 stars out of five. I wish the next one will be better.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by Snail: (But then I love it when people cook together, and I'd happily watch a 2.5-hour movie with Spider-Man, Venom, Sandman and the Green Goblin cooking together, but alas it was not to be. Perhaps in Spider-Man 4?)
Dood! You do not want Sandman anywhere near the food. He'll get sand in it. But that image is making me laugh so much!
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
Saw it today. I'm indifferent about it.
One thing I noticed, and someone can correct me if I'm wrong: Venom is never referred to by name in the movie, is he?
My wife, while in the theater seeing Eddie "convert", asked "what was that?"
My son and I, almost simultaneously, answered "That's Venom."
"What?"
"Venom."
"How do you know that? Did you see this movie before?"
Ugh...
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:. . . take five minutes and talk? or would that ruin movies, if people did that?
SSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Are you trying to shut down the movie industry, the TV industry, and every romance novel publisher simultaneously?
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
You could just watch French movies to get that thing they call "conversation." Ugh, personally I can't stand that kind of foreign stuff, but for each his own.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
quote:Originally posted by Phanto: You could just watch French movies to get that thing they call "conversation."
"Oui."
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
Moi aussi. Je deteste le film le francais. Je n'aime pas parler francais. Et je n'aime pas ecouter ou regarder ou écrirer francais.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
I'm not a hard-core devotee of the Spider-Man comics (kinda like the new Ultimates) but one thing kinda struck me in all three movies:
Since when does Spider-Man regenerate?
I mean, *Harry*, with the whole Goblin formula, is actually supposed to regenerate, and it never does him any significant good. Spider-Man just takes gratuitous, extended, sadistic beatings in every movie, then comes back swinging a few seconds later.
(And the Goblin formula also causes psychosis, which makes the whole "you could be good if you wanted to badly enough" theme that runs through the thing a little irritating.)
I'll second the comments about Peter's mask... Our group coulda sworn he had it off in one frame and on a few moments later without ever showing him putting it back.)
Newsie exposition near the end is annoying. MJ never tells Peter that Harry engineered their break-up.
Could have done without Brock's face emerging from Venom every few minutes to sneer. Venom is scarier than Brock with snaggly teeth, especially when he's showing he's more than just a mindless animal.
I couldn't help but snicker feeling that the alien symbiote was... embarassed at the idea of being caught in the open.
And, yeah, if Peter had figured out that sound was the symbiote's weakness before going to the clock tower, that would have been a lot less to swallow.
Nearly as many endings as Return of the King; did less to set them up and earn most of 'em.
Anyone else think: "It's okay... I forgive you... Go on your way, incredibly powerful supervillain..."?
I enjoyed it. And, yeah, I thought it was better that X-Men 3. But this one had a little guy in the back of my head beating against the walls like the first two didn't.
Oh, and the previews had at least two images of evil meteors coming to earth, which meant that by the time the symbiote came to Earth, everyone was snickering anyway.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
quote:Spider-Man just takes gratuitous, extended, sadistic beatings in every movie, then comes back swinging a few seconds later.
For that matter, he's apparently the best tailor on Earth. Mask torn? No problem, just create one in seconds.
quote:And, yeah, if Peter had figured out that sound was the symbiote's weakness before going to the clock tower, that would have been a lot less to swallow.
If I remember the comic storyline (from the history on the movie website), he went to the clock tower already knowing that that was the way to get rid of it. I kept hoping that his science teacher would give him that information eventually. But no... "Gotta get this damn thing off me, but where can I go and somehow tear the thing off, leaving me completely naked? I know! A CHURCH!"
And, on a side note, if I showed up at my science teacher's classroom holding a vial of sentient extraterrestrial goo, he'd call the Department of Defense on me.
quote:Anyone else think: "It's okay... I forgive you... Go on your way, incredibly powerful supervillain..."?
What the hell is Spiderman supposed to do against him anyway? At least the Goblin was doing some serious damage by turning him in to glass. Spidey couldn't do a damn thing to him and he knew it. I somehow felt that it was more of a "I forgive you... now don't hit me again with a big honkin' fist, OK?"
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
It ought to be a crime punishable by hanging to scar James Franco like that. Hello, most beautiful villain ever?
Also, has Harry ever heard of facial reconstructive surgery? It's not like he's lacking in money for it.
Or maybe, I dunno, a glass eye?
Posted by Snail (Member # 9958) on :
Hee. Oh yes, poor Harry. One thing that actually also bothered me with this film was that everybody was way too beautiful. So OK, it's Hollywood, everybody is always beautiful, but this time all the bit players seemed to look like supermodels. Such as, say, the lady overseeing the test where the Sandman was created.
Also, Tobey Maguire is starting to look a bit too old for my image of Spider-Man.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:If I remember the comic storyline (from the history on the movie website)...
I actually own this comic. And yes, he went to the clock tower knowing that it was sensitive to sound, thanks to his investigations with Reed Richards earlier in the year.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:If I remember the comic storyline (from the history on the movie website)...
I actually own this comic. And yes, he went to the clock tower knowing that it was sensitive to sound, thanks to his investigations with Reed Richards earlier in the year.
I was under the impression in the movie he saw the church and decided to go there and ponder what had been going on in the last few days of his life, he then decided to go into the bell tower as nobody could reasonably see him there and take the suit off, he banged into the bells as he did it but did not connect the sound with the suits weakness as later when he got the suit off Brock a flashback about the whole shebang informed him how to beat the suit.
I didn't much like that he was taking the suit on and off all the time and then suddenly when he is in the bell tower he learns he can't just peel it off like he always has. Why didn't he just go home and assume he could put the suit back into his suitcase. What was he planning on doing with the suit should he get it off in the church? Leave it wandering around the grounds for somebody else?
It would have been very easy for him to just try and take his mask off at the church, (and thus see there is a problem) as he seemed to find occasion to just not wear it or pull it off the whole movie.
I cringed when they had the spidey parade and he swooped in with his mask off, and just stared at the crowd for almost 15 seconds before doning his mask again and swinging in. With that many people and cameras that was just stupid if you ask me.
But my overall impressions of the movie will be written later hopefully today, overall I enjoyed it alot.
Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
So... is Venom dead or not?
quote:I actually own this comic. And yes, he went to the clock tower knowing that it was sensitive to sound, thanks to his investigations with Reed Richards earlier in the year.
I guess we will just have to file that in the already over-stuffed "Hollywood damages suspension of disbelief by changing plot element for no reason" bin.
quote:I cringed when they had the spidey parade and he swooped in with his mask off, and just stared at the crowd for almost 15 seconds before doning his mask again and swinging in. With that many people and cameras that was just stupid if you ask me.
I agree, but then it did show that he was swooping in from a building a lot farther away than it seemed at first.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I thought Harry still looked hot even while scarred.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:If I remember the comic storyline (from the history on the movie website)...
I actually own this comic. And yes, he went to the clock tower knowing that it was sensitive to sound, thanks to his investigations with Reed Richards earlier in the year.
Guess Reed was busy doing his own movie...
quote:I cringed when they had the spidey parade and he swooped in with his mask off, and just stared at the crowd for almost 15 seconds before doning his mask again and swinging in. With that many people and cameras that was just stupid if you ask me.
Or when he's not wearing it when he falls off the skyscraper that every camera in town is looking at. They can identify Mary Jane inside the taxi, but not him?
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
The movie would have been good if you didn't have to wade through hours of poorly written emo drama just to get to a few sub-par comic book style conflicts.
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
They totally needed to have done the movie from Harry's perspective.
Posted by Feer (Member # 9846) on :
I feel like the parts where Peter is dark, they should have made the movie scenes Darker! It was really Upbeat and stuff, I think it should have been dark and violent.
Is it me or is Tobey getting a little fat?
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Tobey Maguire went superbuff for Spidey I, then went anorexic for Seabiscuit, then buffed up again for Spidey II, all within two years. I'm guessing he royally screwed over his metabolism.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
I saw the movie for a second time today with my mother. I enjoyed it just as much as before. The spider-sense thing really bothered me the second time through though. There were just tons and tons of instances where he should have sensed something coming and dodged. It just wasn't done well, which is bad because it would have made the "My spider sense is tingling, if you know what I mean" line from Venom all the better.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
I enjoyed it, and if they ever release a 3 movie spidey box set, I'll likely buy it.
The rest of my lauds and complaints have been pretty well covered above.
Posted by Zenox (Member # 8987) on :
I loved it.
I found it hilarious - my friends and I couldn't help from whispering to each other every minute or so.
But the best scene in the whole movie - The old man, about 15-20 minutes in - "One man CAN make a difference in the world. Enough said."
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Good old Stan Lee. 'Nuff said. Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Close. He said "Nuff said". That was Spider-Man's co-creator Stan Lee. "Nuff Said" is one of his signature phrases.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
My wife was convinced I'd seen the movie when I broke out laughing as soon as Stan Lee and Bruce Campbell appeared on screen, before they even uttered a word.
"What are you laughing at?"
"That's Stan Lee."
"Who?"
Women...
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
Spider-man 3 is the funniest movie I've seen in a long time. And it shouldn't be, it really shouldn't.
If the symbiote doesn't like sound, why does the suit turn Peter into a fan of bad-jazz, able to really lay down on the piano??
If I was Dr. Connors and a student brought me a dangerous substance with a mind of its own that clearly does not come from Earth...wouldn't I tackle him in a class and demand answers rather than call him on the phone.
I hate when the plot is driven because one or two characters refuses to say one simple thing.
Even though I've never been a big fan of special effects, I hated the fight scenes not for the usual reason but because they went by so fast that my brain was unable to focus and understand what it was seeing. Peter went between two buildings?!? Who punched who?!? What the heck is Harry doing?!?
If the crazy machine de-particlized Marko, how did the necklace survive? Complex human body...no problem. Cheap jewelry...invincible!
VENOM NEEDS HIS OWN MOVIE!
The best scenes in the movie should NOT be stolen by Aunt May, Jonah Jameson, and that French waiter. But they were.
I really hope the fight/action choreographers mercilessly mocked the dance choreographer on set.
I literally covered my eyes and asked my boyfriend to tell me when the dancing was over. It was just so wrong!
I loved Spiderman as a kid. I was seven years old and wanted to marry Peter Parker. But I'd be embarassed to walk down the street next to this Spidey.
I shouldn't be laughing at a Spiderman movie unless Peter is making wise-cracks. And he wasn't. It made me sad.
And once again...VENOM NEEDS HIS OWN MOVIE!
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
Is there some sort of multiple-villain syndrome that movie producers get after having a successful comic book movie? Why do they feel the need to have sequels with more and more villains, instead of just one really good villain?
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
Terrible movie for the amount of money put into it. So much money seems to buy so many fancy explosions, yet produces about 5 minutes worth of actual drama, emotion? Where are the people, the sanity?
Not a great film, but cheap dirty fun that you'll regret when you're slaving back at work.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
I liked it, and most of the things people are complaining about are things I actually liked.
The spider-sense thing has annoyed me for three movies now. Other than that, I liked it very much.
Posted by Foust (Member # 3043) on :
The fight scenes were awesome. Best in the series. Among the best special effects-heavy fight scenes in any super hero movie. The crane scene included. Right up there with, say, Nightcrawler's attack on the White House.
Everything else...? It's almost as if every single person involved in making the movie hated their jobs and were trying to destroy the whole process. It was beyond bad.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
The movie not only failed my watch-check test (rating how much I like the movie based on the number of times I check my watch) but it also failed a newly-made 'turn on the pda and read a book' test as well.
It was torture. I couldn't wait for the movie to end.
Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
Beyond bad? Torture? Now you're just being silly.... Either that or you've never seen what a really bad movie is like (which I doubt). Batman 4, anyone? Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Batman & Robin...*sigh* That was a bad movie filled with terrible puns. "Ice to see you"? Blech.
Posted by 0Megabyte (Member # 8624) on :
Ooh. How about Plan 9 From Outer Space?
Compared to that, Spider-Man 3 is a masterpiece.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tresopax: Batman 4, anyone?
***twitch!*** ... ***twitch!*** Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
*twitches as well* It was an imperfect movie, but NOT NEARLY AS BAD AS BATMAN 4!
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Originally posted by mackillian: The movie not only failed my watch-check test (rating how much I like the movie based on the number of times I check my watch) but it also failed a newly-made 'turn on the pda and read a book' test as well.
It was torture. I couldn't wait for the movie to end.
Why on earth would you sit in the theater through a bad experience to read in low lighting?
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
It had it's flaws but I enjoyed it quite a bit. I wouldn't mind seeing it again. I don't understand what all the (negative) fuss is about.
Posted by Foust (Member # 3043) on :
<i>Beyond bad? Torture? Now you're just being silly.... Either that or you've never seen what a really bad movie is like (which I doubt). Batman 4, anyone?</i>
Like I said, the fight scenes were spectacular.
The same movie with lower quality actions scenes would be of the same calibre as <i>Batman and Robin.</i> It really was that stupid.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Spider-man should never, EVER, EVER, have the emo Bravery hair. Ever. It made me cringe.
But I liked the movie.
Just no emo hair, please. Especially not with that one outfit. NOT OKAY, SIR.
-pH
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
The emo hair made me giggle.
But the U! I really cannot be the only one that notices this...
Posted by Snail (Member # 9958) on :
Hmm. While not Batman&Robin-bad I would say that Spider-Man 3 was Star Wars Episodes 1 to 3 -bad. There was the same sort of emotional detachment in all of those movies though Spider-Man was way better acted. But when it comes to directing non-actiony emotional drama moments Sam Raimi is not really any better than George Lucas. He should have the characters do things in those scenes, not just stand still, or then he should use more close-ups or something. He's not like Peter Jackson who can direct both drama and action.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
The emo hair is meant to show us how much we are supposed to hate emos, I consider the entire point being to point out that emo = bad.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
The spidey sense was actually explained in the first movie as simply being really good reflexes and not actual spidey sense at all.
Posted by Snail (Member # 9958) on :
OK, what exactly is emo hair? And what the heck is emo for that matter?
Now I'm terribly worried that I have such hair...
Posted by Ecthalion (Member # 8825) on :
emo hair: when he pulled it doen in front of his eyes, its somewhat spikey somewhat messey, but always goes in front of an eye.
It is in reference to the listeners/members of Emo bands
Emo is short for emotional. Emo music referres to that pop/punk style where a few young adult males with high pitched voices whine and cry over a girl (usually) or not having friends whilst playing a monotonous drum rythem and 3 maybe 4 power chords. The song usually involve wanting to kill oneself or hurt oneself and yet blame the other person involved in the relationship that went south.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: The spidey sense was actually explained in the first movie as simply being really good reflexes and not actual spidey sense at all.
No, it wasn't. In the first movie, the Spidey sense came from a (fictional?) species of Spiders that the Osborn scientists theorized had a "sixth sense for danger", that was added into the hybrid spider that bit Peter.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ecthalion: emo hair: when he pulled it doen in front of his eyes, its somewhat spikey somewhat messey, but always goes in front of an eye.
It is in reference to the listeners/members of Emo bands
Emo is short for emotional. Emo music referres to that pop/punk style where a few young adult males with high pitched voices whine and cry over a girl (usually) or not having friends whilst playing a monotonous drum rythem and 3 maybe 4 power chords. The song usually involve wanting to kill oneself or hurt oneself and yet blame the other person involved in the relationship that went south.
That is a very over simplified and ungenerous assessment. But, yes there are emo bands that are like that.
Posted by Ecthalion (Member # 8825) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:Originally posted by Ecthalion: emo hair: when he pulled it doen in front of his eyes, its somewhat spikey somewhat messey, but always goes in front of an eye.
It is in reference to the listeners/members of Emo bands
Emo is short for emotional. Emo music referres to that pop/punk style where a few young adult males with high pitched voices whine and cry over a girl (usually) or not having friends whilst playing a monotonous drum rythem and 3 maybe 4 power chords. The song usually involve wanting to kill oneself or hurt oneself and yet blame the other person involved in the relationship that went south.
That is a very over simplified and ungenerous assessment. But, yes there are emo bands that are like that.
I havent really run into any bands that fit the Emo genre that dont fit this description. Then again... this is probably teh most annoying form of music to date, yes... even worse than techno... Which is why i avoid it at all cost.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Mostly they sound like teenage boys whining about girls who don't like them in the most irratating tone of voice ever!
Posted by rollainm (Member # 8318) on :
Maybe I just need to grow up (I'm 24), but emo as a music genre is something I actually connect with rather strongly. I can relate to the raw passion, the pure emotion, the anguish that accompanies heartbreak and rejection. Of course I completely understand not feeling the same way. I can't stand most country music myself. What I don't understand is the hostility, the condescension, the stereotyping, this taboo of openly and passionately expressing how you feel, the association of emo with pure immaturity and self-pity.
I believe emo is a reflection of the very real emotional struggles many, probably most, young people go through. Those emotions may seem immature to you, and perhaps they are. That is part of the learning experience, life, growing up, etc. Emo, in a way, is an expression of these things. It's perfectly understandable that the genre doesn't appeal to those, say, 20ish and older because they've gotten over and gained control of these emotions that they now consider trivial. Or perhaps they simply never found them to be all that important to begin with. But just because you don’t or can’t relate to something doesn’t make it any less legitimate. Music means so many different things to different people. Who are we to say what genre is ultimately better or more musical than another?
And as a side note, I challenge anyone to provide a theme that provokes more passionate expression than love. Heartbreak is a dominate theme in nearly every genre for this reason. Emo just happens to concentrate specifically on this particular theme. What exactly is so wrong with that?
[/rant]
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Nothing really, i can like a song from any genre, it's just that most of the emo i have heard drives me up a tree. I think it's sthat tone. Why must ALL the bands sing in that same exact tone? It's all nasally and stuff. Or maybe Dir en grey ruined me... I have yet to hear a band with their kind of feeling and passion...
Posted by rollainm (Member # 8318) on :
Like most things, what provokes passion in each person is subjective. What many consider to be "emo" is also somewhat debatable. I for one would not consider many of these more pop-ish punk bands like Good Charlotte or Fall Out Boy to belong to the genre. New Found Glory might be a possible exception.
As for tone, although I do find many male pop singers like Timberlake and what I can only assume was his twin separated at birth on American Idol to be annoyingly nasally, I would not consider most (I'll admit a few) singers typically labeled "emo" to fall in that same category. For example, I would not consider Nate Barcalow (Finch), Chris Carrabba (Dashboard), or Andrew McMahon (Something Corporate) to have a nasally tone. Higher in pitch than most males could ever imagine going, sure, but not nasally.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I am very uninterested in discussing what bands count as emo and which bands do not.
Synesthesia: Nobody agrees more that there are some, perhaps many emo bands that fit your description, and it makes complete sense that it would not appeal to certain folks. Who knows? Perhaps I only like it because it first came to be when I was the ideal age to enjoy it, but there is plenty of new stuff that just does not interest me, and some that does.
While characteristically emo singers do try to sing at the higher end of the registry, that does not mean they have to sound unpleasant or nasally.
You will find the direction that bands like Jimmy Eat World, All American Rejects, and The Get Up Kids take is markedly different then say The Used, The Bled, etc. But there are many bands in between or off to the side in their own direction.
The only thing that was emo about Peter Parker in Spiderman was his hair cut, and arguably his clothing. Beyond that he hung out at Jazz clubs not rock concerts, and he didn't pick up a guitar and start sobbing while he sang so I really don't think the intention was to emotize him, (not a word I know!)
Although if you look at the soundtrack for Spider Man 2, an emo band, Dashboard Confessional's "Vindicated" dominated the charts over their non emo counterpart's entrees.
Posted by Foust (Member # 3043) on :
It's a real testament to the quality of Spiderman 3 that this discussion has turned to emo music.
By all means, carry on.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Kyo can sometimes sound a bit nasally. iN a good way. He doesn't use that TONE though. It's like they are trying to sound like the dood from Greenday.... but they sound annoying for somer eason. Music is a chemical thing I think, and some music really makes the chemicals just flow... Other music just BUGS me. It's not bad, it just annoys me. For instance, these songs by Three Days Grace. They are not bad, they just IRRATATE me for some reason. Or this song by Staind. They aggravate me! This song Right Here Waiting has cool guitars, but the lyrics are TERRIBLE! And they did a cover of Comfortably Numb. I will not forgive!
Posted by rollainm (Member # 8318) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: I am very uninterested in discussing what bands count as emo and which bands do not.
For the record, I'm not interested in that discussion either. I was simply illustrating my point of subjective interests.
I love The Get Up Kids, by the way. I didn't discover them until a couple of years ago, but I've been hooked ever since.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by mackillian: It was torture. I couldn't wait for the movie to end.
Finally! Wading through all that praise and even lukewarm acceptance of the movie made me wonder if I went to the same movie as everyone else.
I couldn't wait for the movie to end, either. I loved the first 2 so much that I kept giving it chances to get better, but in the end I WALKED OUT about 30 minutes before the end. (Shortly after that photographer guy got covered in black goo. I think that was the last straw.)
I did not read the comics and I couldn't care less about them. I enjoyed the first two movies because they were well written, well acted, and had compellingly written and believable characters who had depth and real, sympathetic problems.
I expected more of the same with this one, but from the opening information dump, through completely unbelievable "particle physics" (Give me a break!), to that awful scene with Peter trying to act cool that made me cringe...I have nothing good to say about the movie AT ALL. In fact, I am going to do my best to pretend that there were only 2 Spiderman movies, much the same way I try to pretend there was only 1 Matrix movie.
X-Men 3 wasn't good, but mostly I thought the problem was over-the-top violence and even melodrama. If only that was the only bad thing I could say about Spiderman 3.
There was too much going on and too many bad guys.
They tried to go back and revisit the best friend/enemy relationship with Harry through a pretty convenient bit of amnesia but I'm afraid they couldn't milk that twice. At least, not for me.
They spent entirely too much time on the romance subplot for an action flick.
I did laugh. Twice. I can't remember what was funny, though.
Torture is a great word. I chose painful, but it's all in the same spirit.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
quote:Why on earth would you sit in the theater through a bad experience to read in low lighting?
I was with three other people more determined than I was to watch the movie entirely through. In other words—I was trapped.
I agree with Christine. Reading the other comments about Spider-man 3, I have also wondered if we all watched the same movie.
Posted by rollainm (Member # 8318) on :
I think it's just a matter of what your expectations were. I went in expecting it to be a typical third installmant of an action trilogy. I expected some awesome CGI, at least a couple of not-quite-as-cheesy laughs, Kirsten Dunst in the only role where she's actually atractive (I think it's just the red hair), and the opportunity to rant about how it easily could have been so much better with my friends at dinner aftwerward. I wasn't that disappointed.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
I expected to be at least mildly entertained. I was disappointed.
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
*off topic* Am I crazy or was there a thread on Shrek 3 that disappeared?
Posted by JoeH (Member # 5958) on :
*on topic* Caveat: I loved both 1 and 2 and Spidey has been my favorite superhero since I was 9 years old. Most of these points were made already:
I have wondered what happened to spidey-sense through all three movies. Maybe they did explain it away in the first one?
There were too many villains.
I too questioned why would Sandman agree with Brock/Venom to kill Spidey if he (Sandman) is actually a good guy.
I too thought, "This movie has more endings that LoTR III"--that's not a good sign.
There were too many we're paying this actor a lot of money and people want to see his face so let's have him take his mask off for no real reason sequences.
I checked my watch 2 or 3 times (did not do that in LoTR III), so it failed in that regard.
I disliked what everyone is referring to as the emo scenes.
MJ and Pete should definitely go to counseling to work on their communication issues before they go any further in their relationship.
I liked the amnesia suffering Harry, his remembering / make Parker suffer, and his redemption.
The butler was lame, lame, lame.
Some of the humor worked, but when it didn't (which was all too often) it was like a movie on MST3K.
The special effects were spectacular.
Casting continued to be fantastic. The actors did very well with what they were given.
I liked X3 better.
There should have been some explanation (as there was in the comic) for Parker to intentionally go to the bell tower.
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
I paid for the crane scene, and it's nice to know Mary Jane is growing up pretty. Did they ever resolve Spiderman's issues with being self-absorbed?
I don't really care about the fights or the villians, never have. Spiderman, for me, has been about the flying saves and noblisse oblige. The only villians I cared about were the people of New York, back when New York hated Spiderman, which made it ever the more touching in both movies when the people of New York stood up for Spiderman.
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
"Quickie armchair director advice: it should have been Sandman and the Lizard, with Peter dealing with the symbiote all through the movie and finally getting rid of it at the end, with Brock getting it in the final scene to set up Spider-Man."
Agree 100 percent. I also thought it was idiotic that they killed venom off, they need him to create carnage.
A few issues I had include that he didn't seem to gain any spectacularly increased strength and agility from the symbiote and that he didn't get the ability to just like magically change what he wears (ie the suit transforming).
Just like you I also miss the smartass Spidey from the cartoons. MJ was always very aggressive but the movies she seems weak.
Practically no talking in the film, just action... that was kind of silly, ie. bad.
A lot of the emotional scenes were over the top and I have to say they just packed too much into one movie and watered down everything.
Posted by Eduardo St. Elmo (Member # 9566) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chris BridgesThe meteorite finding the one superhero in NY was too strained. Better to have it infect other people and move around to stronger and stronger victims, maybe overwhelming each one, until it found one strong enough (Peter). This badly needed its own movie.
Well, perhaps they should have just used another way for the symbiont to get to earth. In the cartoon the symbiont comes down via Jamesons space mission. Then, in the lab milieu it comes across Parker whose above normal strength is recognisable and attractive to it. This way it would have been far less strained. But it does mean you'd have to sneak it into the second movie and by doing so you'd have given away the coming of Venom too soon (at least for the people who are aware of the backstory). JS...
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