I've always wanted to post this topic, but I always figured people would get grumpy because they'd think I was doing research for school or some lobby group. But I'm not, I've just always been curious about how smokers perceive cigarette advertisements and anti-smoking campaigns. And now I have an excuse, because the thread on the MPAA ratings and smoking is related to what I always wondered about. I've also wondered how much ads make people want to start.
1 . Did/do you like the fact that you smoke? If so, what did/dp you like about it?
2. Did you start smoking after people officially knew it was "bad for you" (eg 1960s) and if so, did you have any formal "anti-tobacco" education? Were you a smoker at that time? How did you feel about it then? Do you think they helped a lot of people not become smokers, or make it nerdier not to smoke? How do you feel about such programs now?
3. Did your parents smoke? Did they care whether or not you smoked?
4. Did you see lots of ads for cigarettes when you were little? Did they make you think smoking was cool? How do you make your decisions on which brand of cigarettes to purchase?
5. Growing up, what did you think about cigarettes? Were you anti-smoking as a little kid?
6. Did you ever want to smoke because a movie character did? Did movies make smoking look cool?
7. Did an older role model that you knew personally smoked?
8. Do you associate smoking with rebellion, fitting in or neither?
9. How did you first start smoking? Were you legally allowed to buy cigarettes when you stared?
Sorry for so many questions, but most of them have short answers (but I'm all for hearing stories).
Posted by SoaPiNuReYe (Member # 9144) on :
Is it ok if we expand this to like smoking weed too?
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
If you want to I guess... I've always been slightly bemused that some people will smoke weed but not cigarettes. If you smoke weed, but not cigarettes, can you say why you think they are different?
Posted by SoaPiNuReYe (Member # 9144) on :
I've never smoked a cigarette. I guess it's because of the social stigma that comes with it. Where I'm from at least, it's ok to smoke weed, and at least you know what is going into the joint, unlike cigarettes, where you hear all these stories of nuclear waste and tar and stuff going into them.
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
quote:1 . Did/do you like the fact that you smoke? If so, what did/do you like about it?
I do enjoy smoking. There's a certain level of guilt about it, but there is in any habit that is hazardous to your health. One of the most enjoyable things about a cigarette is the buzz. It's not something that most chain smokers talk about, because they don't really feel a buzz anymore. But I'm not a chain smoker, so I do get a buzz and it's quite pleasant.
quote:2. Did you start smoking after people officially knew it was "bad for you" (eg 1960s) and if so, did you have any formal "anti-tobacco" education? Were you a smoker at that time? How did you feel about it then? Do you think they helped a lot of people not become smokers, or make it nerdier not to smoke? How do you feel about such programs now?
You numbered these questions?
Yes, I started smoking about 5 or 6 years ago. I went to a school that was pretty hardcore anti-vice (liquor, drugs, sex AND tobacco) from 2nd grade until I graduated from high school. I was not a smoker at that time as I was born in the 80's. See previous question. Smoking was cool before, now it's less cool but more anti-establishment; YMMV. I think such programs are good on paper, but don't work nearly as good as just outright banning smoking from public places. Nothing makes you not want to smoke more often than having to do it out in the cold.
quote:3. Did your parents smoke? Did they care whether or not you smoked?
Never. My parents are both pretty anti-smoking. They absolutely care and would prefer I didn't, but they have more to worry about with my menthol-chain-smoking brother. My Mother's parents were pretty hard-line non-smokers, but my Dad's parents didn't know any better. My grandfather quit about 15 years ago and you can tell how hard tobacco was on him. That doesn't stop me from smoking myself, but it does keep me from smoking the crap that he used to every single day. Hell, it also keeps me from smoking every single day. I usually only smoke once a week or so.
quote:4. Did you see lots of ads for cigarettes when you were little? Did they make you think smoking was cool? How do you make your decisions on which brand of cigarettes to purchase?
Sure, lots of kids did. No. I originally smoked clove cigarettes, but they started making me feel ill (not from the tobacco, but from the idea of smoking cloves, it just started to become less appealing). I now smoke "Natural" cigarettes which purport to not have any additives. I also smoke a perique blend, as they have a much more full-bodied flavor. I'm a cigar and pipe smoker on occasion as well, which is probably why I favor strong cigarettes.
quote:5. Growing up, what did you think about cigarettes? Were you anti-smoking as a little kid?
I thought cigarettes were this strange mystery that everyone said was bad, and the idea of inhaling smoke certainly wasn't appealing, but no one really ever explained why they were good either. I'd say I was definitely anti-smoking, but I remember the smell of my grandfather's pipe before he gave it up. Most people would have probably thought it was nasty, but the smell of pipe smoke still takes me back to long, warm summers, the creak of a folding chair on a back porch, the smell of pine and aspen, cool mountain air and the sound of distant birds.
quote:6. Did you ever want to smoke because a movie character did? Did movies make smoking look cool?
I don't know if I wanted to smoke because of movie characters. I was more interested in smoking because my friends did it and it was a way for us to hang out together. If you want to know, C.S. Lewis and J. R.R. Tolkien are more to blame for my idolizing tobacco than any movie character-- especially with a fresh pint cooling my other hand. But, yes, movies make smoking look dead sexy and you know it. Without the scent of the cigarette to distract you, people who smoke look pretty effing cool. The way the cigarette dangles from their fingers. The way the smoke wafts up from their mouths as they exhale. It's a great way to set a mood for a scene in a movie.
In the same regard, however, smoking is a great way to make someone look like trailer-trash on the big screen. It's all about how you film it.
quote:7. Did an older role model that you knew personally smoked?
Nope. My grandfather has never been my role model, so that doesn't count. No one else I know personally who is older in any fashion led me to smoking in any way. It was my peers, if anything.
quote:8. Do you associate smoking with rebellion, fitting in or neither?
A little bit of each. I didn't need to smoke to fit in, though. It was just something I always wanted to experience. I was already really good friends with the guys I smoked with. I just chose to smoke because it was a fun, shared experience. As for rebellion, I was long past those stages by the time I started smoking, but it was still kind of fun to talk about smoking around people who didn't and enjoy their shocked reactions-- especially since, at the time, I was hanging out with a pretty conservative crowd.
quote:9. How did you first start smoking? Were you legally allowed to buy cigarettes when you stared?
The first time I had tobacco of any kind was during one of the first times I went drinking. Smoking and drinking have always gone together for me, which is one of the many reasons it's a shame that bars want to ban smoking. I understand all of the reasons and I totally sympathize with those who don't want smokers around when they go bar-hopping, but a cigarette in one hand and a beer in the other just feel right to me.
Anyways, the first time I had a smoke was some kind of cigar. God help me if I can remember what. It wasn't a Swisher Sweet or any of that kind of garbage, but it wasn't far off in the quality scale. I smoked with a bunch of people and a girl I was into at the time. I don't think any of us got buzzed because cigars are hard to smoke that way, but the mechanics of it appealed to me and we all had a good time, so we did it again the next time we all hung out.
It sort of became a regular thing with a group of people I hung out with at that time. We'd all run out and buy a cigar or a pack of fancy-shmancy cigarettes and smoke them while we drank. It eventually got to the point where we started researching brands and finding favorites.
After a time, the group started to dissolve, but some of us stuck together. We started drinking Leinenkugel's Honeyweiss beer and smoking Djarum Especials and Blacks on a regular basis. It was sort of a weird ritual every Sunday night before the week would hit-- great way to wind down a weekend, lemme tell ya.
Then I got married, and I stopped smoking much, but I still enjoyed the sensation. I never smoke around my wife or my daughter except at Summerfest here in Milwaukee. I'll always drop a wad and buy a good cigar and smoke it, but I stay downwind and put it out if we need to wait in line for awhile (that's one of the nice parts about cigars).
Now that I've got a regular tuesday night D&D group, I smoke on tuesdays. I typically smoke American Spirits Perique cigarettes for reasons mentioned above. I've stuck with the brand for awhile and have tried others, but they're the ones I like best.
The end.
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
quote:I've always been slightly bemused that some people will smoke weed but not cigarettes. If you smoke weed, but not cigarettes, can you say why you think they are different?
I don't really smoke weed, but I would be more inclined to smoke weed than cigarettes. I think that on average smoking is more frequently an addiction. When I think of people that smoke, I think of people that need a cigarette every few hours. When I think of weed, I see it more as an every once in a while thing, frequently in social scenes. I'm sure this doesn't apply to everybody, or maybe even most, but this is my perception.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Originally posted by theamazeeaz: 1 . Did/do you like the fact that you smoke? If so, what did/dp you like about it?
I thoroughly enjoy cigarettes and smoking culture, and dislike that it's as bad for me as it is, so it about balances out.
quote:2. Did you start smoking after people officially knew it was "bad for you" (eg 1960s) and if so, did you have any formal "anti-tobacco" education? Were you a smoker at that time? How did you feel about it then? Do you think they helped a lot of people not become smokers, or make it nerdier not to smoke? How do you feel about such programs now?
I had anti-tobacco education starting in elementary school. It didn't matter: I'm convinced any and all anti-drug, anti-drinking, anti-tobacco crap that gets fed to kids in school goes in one ear and out the other.
Nothing those programs (and television ads, etc.) was going to have the slightest effect on my decision to do any of those things. The far, far bigger influences were how my parents and friends viewed them. Because it was forbidden by law and frowned upon socially, smoking had cool status, period.
quote:3. Did your parents smoke? Did they care whether or not you smoked?
I don't know for certain whether they did or not, but I'm almost completely sure they both did when young. I think my mom smoked more than my dad did, and for longer. I never told them I smoked, and I never smoked in front of them, but when my mom mentioned casually that she didn't want me doing it in the house or where my brother could see/smell, I obliged - after all, it's their house. Beyond that, they made it clear they'd rather I didn't, and didn't try to influence me one way or the other. But then again, I'd been smoking for five or six years before they found out.
quote:4. Did you see lots of ads for cigarettes when you were little? Did they make you think smoking was cool? How do you make your decisions on which brand of cigarettes to purchase?
I saw the ads and they had as little effect on me as the anti-smoking ads did. When I started smoking, I picked the brand, type and strength based on what everyone else was doing or whichever box looked pretty. That continued for four years or so (I was a very occasional smoker), at which point I started experimenting more. Once I turned 18, I just kept trying different kinds.
quote:5. Growing up, what did you think about cigarettes? Were you anti-smoking as a little kid?
quote:6. Did you ever want to smoke because a movie character did? Did movies make smoking look cool?
Christ, no. People, even kids, who pick up bad habits because movie characters or movies make them look cool are sheep.
quote:7. Did an older role model that you knew personally smoked?
I've never had role models, and still don't.
quote:8. Do you associate smoking with rebellion, fitting in or neither?
When I was younger, both. It was an act of rebellion against perceived BS standards of society and an act of fitting in with people whose good opinions I wanted.
quote:9. How did you first start smoking? Were you legally allowed to buy cigarettes when you stared?
Essentially peer pressure, and I was 13ish, so no.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Originally posted by theamazeeaz: I've always been slightly bemused that some people will smoke weed but not cigarettes. If you smoke weed, but not cigarettes, can you say why you think they are different?
Try both, and you'll understand perfectly why the two are completely incomparable.
Edit: to expand on why more people seem to be okay with the idea of the occasional pothead than the routien smoker, a lot of people I know are more okay with weed than cigarettes because weed has a really, really significant effect, where cigarettes have a nice initial buzz and mild lasting effects, until you get used to the nicotine, at which point there's no buzz and the only lasting effects are "keeping you from going crazy." Even though both are bad for your lungs (and pot smoke is significantly worse than tobacco smoke for them, especially since it's unfiltered), people are more ready to look at weed as a once-in-a-while thing compared to the comparatively regular input of cigarettes, and that somehow makes it less bad/dirty/frowned upon.
Some analogies: people who'd spend $50 on a nice dinner once a month who are unwilling to spend $5 extra every day on better quality lunchmeat, people who will pay $2,000 to fix their transmission but are hesitant to pay for extensive routine maintenance, people who don't blow through money at bars and clubs every weekend and use the money to buy an iPod or new TV instead.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I work with a lot of weed smokers, and smoking a theoretical pack a day of weed cigarettes would be a laughable suggestion to them, as would be doing so every day.
The way cigarettes are smoked is what makes them inherently more dangerous.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by erosomniac: People, even kids, who pick up bad habits because movie characters or movies make them look cool are sheep.
I'm confused. How is that substantially different than doing it because of peer pressure?
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka:
quote:Originally posted by erosomniac: People, even kids, who pick up bad habits because movie characters or movies make them look cool are sheep.
I'm confused. How is that substantially different than doing it because of peer pressure?
Where did I say it was?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
To give a broader answer to the opening question:
I don't smoke, my parents didn't smoke, and I remember pretty much nothing about smoking education in school. I think it's pretty damned gross, and it's probably the single biggest turn-off a girl can have. I briefly entertained the idea of smoking, and even tried maybe a puff or two form a cigarette I got from a friend, but I found it so thoroughly gross that I didn't finish the cigarette and have avoided them like the plague ever since.
I don't like smoking, I think it's silly that people literally pay to slowly kill themselves, and I generally find people who think smoking is cool to be odd. It boggles the mind.
And lastly, eros, don't you find these two statements somewhat contentious to each other?
quote:Christ, no. People, even kids, who pick up bad habits because movie characters or movies make them look cool are sheep.
quote:When I was younger, both. It was an act of rebellion against perceived BS standards of society and an act of fitting in with people whose good opinions I wanted.
To me, people who do something just to fit in are sheep as well.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: And lastly, eros, don't you find these two statements somewhat contentious to each other?
quote:Christ, no. People, even kids, who pick up bad habits because movie characters or movies make them look cool are sheep.
quote:When I was younger, both. It was an act of rebellion against perceived BS standards of society and an act of fitting in with people whose good opinions I wanted.
Nope.
quote:To me, people who do something just to fit in are sheep as well.
I wholeheartedly agree.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I ask, only because your first statement there seems contemptuous, was it not meant to be that way?
And since you are doing the thing you seem to be contemptuous of, perhaps you can understand my confusion.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
^ Exactly.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I ask, only because your first statement there seems contemptuous, was it not meant to be that way?
No, it was very contemptuous, and on purpose.
quote:And since you are doing the thing you seem to be contemptuous of, perhaps you can understand my confusion.
No, I did the thing I was contemptuous of at 13, and I'm now 23.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:I thoroughly enjoy cigarettes and smoking culture
What is enjoyable about cigarettes?
What is enjoyable about smoking culture?
Heck, what is smoking culture?
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: What is enjoyable about cigarettes?
Too many things for me to list, but for starters: the immediate buzz, both a result of the nicotine and oxygen deprivation. The sensation of cigarette smoke in my lungs. The sensation of inhaling and exhaling smoke. Holding a cigarette. The taste of cigarette smoke, especially in conjunction with other tastes. The secondary effects of smoking, e.g. settling my stomach after meals (most of my smoking is after meals).
quote:What is enjoyable about smoking culture?
For me, it's largely the joint immediate excuse to leave a room to be with a smaller number of people, sharing an activity we enjoy.
quote:Heck, what is smoking culture?
I don't think I'd go so far as to say "smoking culture" has a definition. Like any subculture, it means different things to different people. To me, it largely revolves around my previous answer.
I also like that smoking causes an immediate sorting out when you meet new people. I get to weed out all the people who are so anti-smoking it precludes the possibility of friendship: I've found that more often than not, I don't want to be around those people anyway, whether I'm smoking or not. It also affords people the opportunity to judge me immediately based on whatever preconceived notions they have about people who smoke, saving me a lot of time and effort.
Posted by Roseauthor (Member # 148) on :
I gave up smoking for being FAT and asthmatic.
NOW, I can eat all the Pizza and emit all the carbon monoxide I want from my SUV! I can run my air conditioner at 40 degrees like those theaters and eating establishments do.
Until it's a bad thing, I'm sure I'll be with the majority of Americans so, I'm COOL!
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:For me, it's largely the joint immediate excuse to leave a room to be with a smaller number of people, sharing an activity we enjoy.
I have a flippant answer and a serious answer, and being unable to choose between the two of them, I'm going with both.
Serious: That, in harmony with your last paragraph sounds extremely smug to me. I'm anti-smoking, but so long as you don't do it around me, it won't matter in a friendship one way or the other, though chances are I'll make numerous concerted efforts to get you to stop, were I your friend. I think you're putting way too much stock in how smoking effects your social interactions.
Flippant: I don't think you've changed much since you were 13.
Posted by Roseauthor (Member # 148) on :
Sorry, but Bars are FILLED with smokers. It's a multi BILLION dollar industry. I don't see how smoking interfers with social interaction as much as being fat does.
Socially, ... over-weight people are more rejected than a hot chick with a cig. In fact, a hot dude with a smoke will get more attention than a fat dude.
Smoking is less an issue socially than being fat.
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
quote:I'm anti-smoking, but so long as you don't do it around me, it won't matter in a friendship one way or the other, though chances are I'll make numerous concerted efforts to get you to stop, were I your friend. I think you're putting way too much stock in how smoking effects your social interactions.
I disagree. I think there is definately a bond between smokers and that in all seriousness, smoking is a good way to meet people. In every three hour class I've ever had, the smokers that took a break together seemed to become friends. I think it just adds another point of contact and an opportunity to build relationships. That's not a big enough appeal for me to start smoking, but I think that's why a great many people do.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
quote:For me, it's largely the joint immediate excuse to leave a room to be with a smaller number of people, sharing an activity we enjoy.
I have a flippant answer and a serious answer, and being unable to choose between the two of them, I'm going with both.
Serious: That, in harmony with your last paragraph sounds extremely smug to me. I'm anti-smoking, but so long as you don't do it around me, it won't matter in a friendship one way or the other, though chances are I'll make numerous concerted efforts to get you to stop, were I your friend. I think you're putting way too much stock in how smoking effects your social interactions.
Flippant: I don't think you've changed much since you were 13.
If you say so! Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
quote:Sorry, but Bars are FILLED with smokers
Not here.
I know more people who smoke marijuana than cigarettes. I don't really have too many friends who smoke cigarettes, since they tend to clump together. I don't particularly have anything against smokers, but I don't really like to be close to them because they smell- it's like people with bad body odor, they're okay, it's just hard on the nose.
I also worry about them the same way I worry about people who do something else (harder drugs, heavy drinking, chronic bad eating) that is dangerous, so it's tough emotionally.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Erosomniac: That was a very interesting synopsis, I beleive I understand where you are coming from with your contempt for those who do things purely because others they idolize or admire do them.
Would you say whereas you were acting sheepish when you first tried smoking, you now do it purely on its own merits not to please anyone else?
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: Erosomniac: That was a very interesting synopsis, I beleive I understand where you are coming from with your contempt for those who do things purely because others they idolize or admire do them.
Would you say whereas you were acting sheepish when you first tried smoking, you now do it purely on its own merits not to please anyone else?
Depends on who you ask, I suppose. I thoroughly enjoy smoking and would (and did) continue doing it through changing circles of friends, alone and in groups, without much attention to whether the opinion of my peers changed because of it.
Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
quote:1 . Did/do you like the fact that you smoke? If so, what did/dp you like about it?
I enjoy smoking. It's a good way to relax, Camel's taste good, I like the smell, it gives me a reason to take a break from work, I like the effects it has on my body, it is how I've made most of my friends, as has been mentioned. On the other hand I know it's horrible for me and costs an arm and a leg. I am starting to think about possible considering the prospect of maybe not smoking quite so much sometime in the future. Maybe.
quote:2. Did you start smoking after people officially knew it was "bad for you" (eg 1960s) and if so, did you have any formal "anti-tobacco" education? Were you a smoker at that time? How did you feel about it then? Do you think they helped a lot of people not become smokers, or make it nerdier not to smoke? How do you feel about such programs now?
I started smoking in the mid-nineties. I knew it was bad for me.
quote:3. Did your parents smoke? Did they care whether or not you smoked?
My dad smoked before any of us kids were born, and we knew it. My brother used that as an excuse once and me and my sister tore him a new one. Putting that kind of blame on a parent is unfair. Yes, they cared a great deal. Five out of seven kids in my family smoke and my mom once said that if one more started, she could virtually guarantee two of her children dying from it. That was a heartwrencher.
quote:4. Did you see lots of ads for cigarettes when you were little? Did they make you think smoking was cool? How do you make your decisions on which brand of cigarettes to purchase?
I guess I saw a lot if ads. I don't really remember, so I guess they didn't make me think smoking was cool. :shrug: My friends all smoked Marlboro's when I started, but my older sister wouldn't buy me anything but Camels. I am grateful for that.
quote:5. Growing up, what did you think about cigarettes? Were you anti-smoking as a little kid?
I remember as a kid thinking that I would never smoke cigarettes, but I would drink like a fish. This was about fifth or sixth grade.
quote:6. Did you ever want to smoke because a movie character did? Did movies make smoking look cool?
Not that I recall. I don't think so. These days when I see a movie character smoking, it does make me want one.
quote:7. Did an older role model that you knew personally smoked?
Not that I recall.
quote:8. Do you associate smoking with rebellion, fitting in or neither?
Now: neither. When I started I definitely associated it with rebellion.
quote:9. How did you first start smoking? Were you legally allowed to buy cigarettes when you stared?
I first started the summer after eighth grade because my parents were making us move and I wanted to piss off my mom. It worked. That was obviously a stupid reason to start, but that was a long time ago, and I'm pretty confortable with being stupid. I was 14, so no.
Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
quote:I think there is definately a bond between smokers and that in all seriousness, smoking is a good way to meet people
I'd think smoking is a way to meet people, but not a good way. Saying "hi" and starting a conversation is a good way to meet people. I think it may be less cool in the short run, but ends up more cool in the long run.
Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
quote:I'd think smoking is a way to meet people, but not a good way.
How could it be a bad way? It's not like smokers don't say "hi." I usually go with a combination of both. When outside a building smoking, if there happens to be another person standing there, smoking or not, but usually smoking, it's polite to say hi. From there, if the other person is pleasant, it is generally enjoyable to have a brief conversation. If it turns out that you have a lot in common with said person, it is nice and community building to exchange numbers. I see nothing in this that could be "not a good way" to meet people.
Generally I don't stand outside of buildings for 10 minutes at a time if I'm not smoking.
Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
quote:I see nothing in this that could be "not a good way" to meet people.
That's because you left out the parts involving addiction and lung cancer.
quote:Generally I don't stand outside of buildings for 10 minutes at a time if I'm not smoking.
You should start doing that instead, then. It will get you the same social benefits without most of the health costs.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
I don't smoke, and I never have. The reason is this: when I was in high school and most of my friends first took up smoking I was in 5 different sports year-round (some of the seasons overlapped, but I was always in at least one). I took that seriously enough (especially since my first sport, swimming, was dependent at least in part on lung capacity) that I wouldn't have considered jeopardizing that with smoking. I didn't drink until Senior Year for the same reason.
It's never really bothered me, being around smoke, probably because my grandmother used to smoke in my presence frequently (she was born the 20s, and flat out did not give a crap about the effects of secondhand smoke, despite the wishes of my parents...which is selfish in the extreme, now that I look back on it). So I didn't care if my friends smoked. In fact, I used to take drives with them all the time (in high school) to go smoke.
In college, at first I didn't smoke just because I didn't see the appeal. I was able to withstand the initial barrage of peer pressure to smoke, and it's obvious once you're in college that smoking isn't a smart thing to do. Then, later in college, I had the sports excuse again.
I also had the added advantage of mainly hanging out with athletes. So no one smoked. By the time I graduated from college and moved back home I was shocked to discover that a lot of my high school friends still smoked. Wha?
Anyway, to sum up: as far as I'm concerned, a person's body is theirs to do whatever they like, so long as it doesn't affect those around them. So as long smokers are conscientious with it I could care less if they smoke or not.
Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
Tres - My bad, I misunderstood you. I thought you meant that the actual act of meeting people was somehow not as good/effective if you are smoking at the time. Not that if you're smoking anything you do is bad because smoking's bad for you.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:Tres - My bad, I misunderstood you. I thought you meant that the actual act of meeting people was somehow not as good/effective if you are smoking at the time. Not that if you're smoking anything you do is bad because smoking's bad for you.
A lot of people have a hard time quitting, because their friends still smoke, and they can't possibly hang around their friends without indulging themselves.
So you gain the addiction to fit in, and then you can't quit without abandoning your social circle, so you just slowly kill yourself.
As I've said in previous threads, I think smoking is vile and disgusting, and I can't stand being around someone who is doing it.
I can be friends with smokers, so long as they don't do it around me. I've had a couple of friends who were pretty good about this.
But Niki and I have recently pretty much lost a friend recently, because she only wants to go out to bars she can smoke in, and we refuse to subject ourselves to that.
Other than that, my opinions on smokers tends to vary between pity, dislike, and apathy. Pity if the smoker is someone I know and who I like otherwise, dislike for ANYONE whose cigarette smoke finds its way into my lungs, and apathy for everyone else.
The degree of dislike is actually bordering on hatred, if I am breathing in your smoke. I recently went to a Tool concert, and by the end of the night, the concert hall was just as filled with smoke as any bar I'd ever been to. As the vile air filled my longs, if I had a button which would kill every person who lit up a cigarette in that place, I would have thought very hard about pushing it.
Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
Awe! That's sweet! Hugs and kisses to you too sweetheart!
I'm not sure what anything you said has to do with my post. We were talking about meeting new friends, not keeping the old. Besides, I like silver better anyways.
quote:A lot of people have a hard time quitting, because their friends still smoke, and they can't possibly hang around their friends without indulging themselves.
I'm sure a lot of people do, but not in my circle. When one of my friends quits smoking I support them 100 percent and absolutely refuse to give them a cigarette, regardless of how much they beg.
Edited to fix idiocies.
Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
quote:A lot of people have a hard time quitting, because their friends still smoke, and they can't possibly hang around their friends without indulging themselves.
So you gain the addiction to fit in, and then you can't quit without abandoning your social circle, so you just slowly kill yourself.
That makes sense - although I think the same concept applies to a great many things.
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
quote: 1 . Did/do you like the fact that you smoke? If so, what did/dp you like about it?
I enjoy smoking occasionally. Both weed and cigarettes. The best is cigarettes after smoking weed. It boosts your high. Smoking isn't a habit for me, I just smoke like a cigarette a week when I'm with my friends, but I enjoy it when I do.
quote: 2. Did you start smoking after people officially knew it was "bad for you" (eg 1960s) and if so, did you have any formal "anti-tobacco" education? Were you a smoker at that time? How did you feel about it then? Do you think they helped a lot of people not become smokers, or make it nerdier not to smoke? How do you feel about such programs now?
I was born in 1990. I've had anti-tobacco education in my school. A guy once came in who could barely talk because of throat surgery or something because he smoked like 2 packs a day all through his teenage and adult years. I don't plan on smoking that much.
quote: 3. Did your parents smoke? Did they care whether or not you smoked?
Nope, my parents are very anti-smoking and anti-drinking. I've seen my mom drink a little wine at family dinners, but my dad would never take a sip unless it's Shabbat and he drinks it for Kiddush. My dad would flip if he knew I smoked. My mom probably guessed that I tried it, she knows more about what teenagers do, but as long as she never sees me smoking or hears about it, I think she'll leave me alone.
quote: 4. Did you see lots of ads for cigarettes when you were little? Did they make you think smoking was cool? How do you make your decisions on which brand of cigarettes to purchase?
No. I smoke Parliaments and Marlboros. I've never bought a pack of cigarettes, those are just what my friends smoke. When they're smoking they just give me one. They don't pressure me though, if I refused it they wouldn't push it at all.
quote: 5. Growing up, what did you think about cigarettes? Were you anti-smoking as a little kid?
Didn't think about them. No.
quote: 6. Did you ever want to smoke because a movie character did? Did movies make smoking look cool?
No. I can't even think of a movie scene where a character was smoking. I just don't pay attention to it. My friends know how to make it look cool though. They can french inhale and blow smoke rings (I'm getting good at blowing rings) and they just flick their ashes by flicking the back of their cigarette with their thumb. It looks cool.
quote: 7. Did an older role model that you knew personally smoked?
I wouldn't call him a role model because I never tried to be like him but he was my friend and he got me into it.
quote: 8. Do you associate smoking with rebellion, fitting in or neither?
Neither really. It looks cool but I don't see it making my image on a whole look cooler. It just looks cool while I'm smoking.
quote: 9. How did you first start smoking? Were you legally allowed to buy cigarettes when you stared?
Friends were smoking and offered me a cigarette. I still can't legally buy a cigarette.
Edit: Also, hookah owns cigarettes any day. It tastes so good when you learn how to pack it right. But don't go to hookah bars. Every one I've been to suck, they don't know anything about how to pack a head correctly. They just throw the tobacco in and make as many holes as they feel like it and don't measure the right amount of water and stuff. Packing a good head of Nargila is an art. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by GaalDornick: A guy once came in who could barely talk because of throat surgery or something because he smoked like 2 packs a day all through his teenage and adult years. I don't plan on smoking that much.
Neither did he.
Posted by Flaming Toad on a Stick (Member # 9302) on :
" "
Posted by Roseauthor (Member # 148) on :
If I cared that much about my health, I would protest the emissions from VEHICLES! Most of the people in the city stink! They always have that stench of pollution! I can't hardly stand to be around them! Then, they try to mask it with perfumes?! More chemicals ... more stench.
Live in the country for a while and get some fresh air. But don't tell me smokers smell worse than city people! Emissions are worse and so are the chemicals in perfumes, cleaners, etc.
I guess living in the country-free from your chemicals-is much nicer.
Offensive smelling is less of an issue than just pure pollution and chemicals for us.
Socially, smoking is a non-issue. Offensive smells? your perfumes are usually offensive more. Health? being fat is worse.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Roseauthor: Health? being fat is worse.
Please support this claim with scientific studies.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:If I cared that much about my health, I would protest the emissions from VEHICLES!
When I am around smoke, the stench sticks to my hair, my clothes, and even my skin. My throat gets tight and dry, my eyes get itchy, and I start to cough every few minutes. When exposed to vehicles... Oh wait, I hardly ever notice the smell and/or effects of vehicle exhaust.
Are you a smoker, Roseauthor, because the only way I can imagine someone being more effected by the standard amounts of exhaust than by cigarette smoke is if they've become inured to it.
quote:Socially, smoking is a non-issue. Offensive smells? your perfumes are usually offensive more.
This sort of comment seems to pop up in these threads, and it always makes me wonder what world your living in. Perfume being as bad as cigarette smoke?
quote:Health? being fat is worse.
When you walk past a fat person eating, he doesn't stick a candy bar in your mouth and make you swallow it. I hold my breath walking past smokers, but in closed quarters I have no choice.
Posted by Roseauthor (Member # 148) on :
NO. I don't smoke. Exhaust bothers my asthma more than smoke. As does your chemical emissions (all chemicals! including your perfumes)
As for over-weight- the health hazards of such are greater than smokers. Why do you think they're outlawing transfat? Let's list all the fat ailments: asthma, liver disorder/failure, diabetes, cardiac, respiratory, skin infections, (staph). digestive-colon cancer, colon failure, pancreatic cancer/and blockages due to growths. Glaucoma, arthritis, RLS, do we need more???
Let's get real about this issue.
If you have to hold your breath... stop going where there are smokers. I can't help but pay premiums that are rising due to FAT people ailments!
Not only that... I pay for a seat on an airline.. and end up between two fat people.. I get a half a seat! I weigh only 110! I get less because of fat people!.. Yes.. this offends.
I just want to know,.... how overweight are you?
You assume, I or anyone else, are smokers. We, who do not buy into the programed delusions .. so I'll assume you're fat or like a lot of chemicals like MY delusions of fatties and eco-unfriendlies.
[ May 16, 2007, 12:53 AM: Message edited by: Roseauthor ]
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote: Let's get real about this issue. Smoking is a minor issue in health. Over 20,000 die of influenza. More die from poverty. The demonizing of smokers is a non-issue comparatively. But, it's good brainwashing to refocus you attention to lesser issues.
South Africa has more issues but you don't see the social propaganda. If it were demonized as much as tobacco, we'd have less complaints. If we demonized the corruption on capital hill, congress, and other patholical liars.. we would think different. Until then, this is all a farce.
My mother died of a heart attack at 43, due to her smoking, and was not at all overweight.
My aunt died of lung cancer in her late 40s, smoking all the way to the grave.
I believe my maternal grandfather died of smoking related cancer as well.
My father was not seriously overweight, and had terminal heart disease at 49. He did not smoke cigarettes, he was a heavy marijuana smoker.
You can waive your hand and pretend that smoking doesn't kill very many people, but people like me are just going to laugh at you.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:If you have to hold your breath... stop going where there are smokers.
So let me get this straight, smoking is not a social issue at all, but I should avoid any location where someone might be smoking...
quote:I can't help but pay premiums that are rising due to FAT people ailments!
And what the hell does that have to do with smoking? You are also paying premiums for people dying of SMOKING ailments!
quote:Not only that... I pay for a seat on an airline.. and end up between two fat people.. I get a half a seat! I weigh only 110! I get less because of fat people!.. Yes.. this offends.
You clearly have an axe to grind with overweight people. I have no idea what this has to do with a thread about smoking.
quote:I just want to know,.... how overweight are you?
I am 5' 9.5" and 175lbs, so my BMI says I am 3 pounds overweight. Since i go to the gym a lot, and have more muscle than average (or so I'd like to believe), I'd say that I am not overweight at all.
Posted by Roseauthor (Member # 148) on :
Myy grandfather died of lung cancer.. never smoked.
My aunt died of breast cancer.. never smoked
My other grandfather died of bone cancer. Lived off the earth.
My aunt died of Alzheimers. was a naturalist.
I don't deny smoking is a health issue. However, emissions from cars/vehicles are more of a health issue to ME. Chemicals are more of a health issue to ME.
Rhetoric doesn't matter much. We all have stories of who died and by what cause we believe them to have died from. In the end, I'll still say, ride a damn bike, stop costing insurance industry more money by being a fatarse. And stop using chemicals!
Emotional appeal isn't a good logical argument. Sorry. I have plenty of stories of my family and friends. Compare and contrast isn't logical.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:I don't deny smoking is a health issue.
I went back to quote the part of your 11:38PM to quote where you did exactly this, but you've since edited it out I see.
Intentional or not, that means that my participation in this debate is over.
Posted by Roseauthor (Member # 148) on :
Xavier, you do know I'm just jacking with you!
After posting.. I did edit.. you're correct. I didn't see your post until after the edit. sorry.
But I still do have major issues with asthma. pollution in cities does effect it. Perfumes does affect it. And sorry, but I don't like the smell that city people really do have. It's quite disgusting!
I can avoid most pollutants. However, over-weight people are more of a health concern on the industry than smokers.
Both are hazardous.
Posted by Roseauthor (Member # 148) on :
Sorry Xavier!
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Originally posted by Roseauthor: Let's list all the fat ailments: asthma, liver disorder/failure, diabetes, cardiac, respiratory, skin infections, (staph). digestive-colon cancer, colon failure, pancreatic cancer/and blockages due to growths. Glaucoma, arthritis, RLS, do we need more???
Being overweight is a risk factor for developing asthma and glaucoma? Most etiologies of liver disorder or failure? RLS (restless leg syndrome)?
---
Edited to add:
quote:However, over-weight people are more of a health concern on the industry than smokers.
I don't think the CDC or WHO data supports this.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:Sorry Xavier!
Apology accepted . It is an emotional issue, and it's good to remind myself to not get too wrapped up in it (at least not on a web forum).
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Originally posted by Roseauthor: Rhetoric doesn't matter much. We all have stories of who died and by what cause we believe them to have died from. In the end, I'll still say, ride a damn bike, stop costing insurance industry more money by being a fatarse. And stop using chemicals!
Emotional appeal isn't a good logical argument. Sorry. I have plenty of stories of my family and friends. Compare and contrast isn't logical.
It's why I prefer to rely on the most well-collected data and the established risk factors therein. It looks like the people in your accounts diverge from the norm -- which doesn't make the stories any less painful, of course! Just that they are probably not the accounts on which to base systemic policy decisions.
---
Edited to add:
Ah, well, top of the page post. I'll repost the text of my earlier post here as well, just so it doesn't get lost in the mists of Page 1.
quote:Originally posted by Roseauthor: Let's list all the fat ailments: asthma, liver disorder/failure, diabetes, cardiac, respiratory, skin infections, (staph). digestive-colon cancer, colon failure, pancreatic cancer/and blockages due to growths. Glaucoma, arthritis, RLS, do we need more???
Being overweight is a risk factor for developing asthma and glaucoma? Most etiologies of liver disorder or failure? RLS (restless leg syndrome)?
quote:However, over-weight people are more of a health concern on the industry than smokers.
I don't think the CDC or WHO data supports this.
---
Edited again to add:
The CDC cites about $167 billion per year ("annual costs") as the economic burden of cigarette smoking (for years 1997-2001) as compared to $78 billion per year (their high estimate) for obesity/overweight (specifically for 1998).
[ May 16, 2007, 01:49 AM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
Posted by Roseauthor (Member # 148) on :
actually.. they do now. Therefore the reason for banning Transfat.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Citation?
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
I'm still curious also about the attribution of obesity/overweight as a risk factor for developing asthma, glaucoma, most etiologies of liver disorder or failure, and RLS (restless leg syndrome?). I don't think this is accurate, and I think it might skew how you are interpreting the data.
---
Trans fat might well turn out to be a huge problem. I don't think that question has been remotely near settled in the medical literature, though, and I don't think it is equitable to overweight/obesity. It is a separate (albeit related issue), and the data that has been collected and analyzed just doesn't support your claims. Particularly not with the level of certainty the claims are expressed, but not really at all, in my opinion.
Posted by Roseauthor (Member # 148) on :
This is the same amount of evidence that the CDC dictates for smoking related... in fact.. there is less evidence in nicotine related illness than there is in FAT related illness.
Smoking related illness is based upon a computer program.. nothing more! It can NOT be determined how many people die from smoking other than a computer program.. And... as a Computer coder.. the fact is.. I can't believe a program!... NO coder would!
It's not like a person DIES and someone determined it was smoking related and punched into some database as real DATA!
The fact is... There are NO REAL bodies on the smoking related deaths data. It's just a computer program!
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
*gently
Roseauthor, your links don't say what you think they say. From the first one, "total cost of obesity in the United States in 2000 was about $117 billion." That isn't more than $167 billion a year.
I agree obesity/overweight is a major health problem. It just isn't more of an economic issue than cigarette smoking.
---
It is more than a computer program. It isn't based on coding alone. It is based on autopsies, hard data gathered in epidemiological studies to identify risk factors, and the like. That information is entered into a computer program, as you say, but so is the data for obesity/overweight as a risk factor. They are not different entities in this manner.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
From your second link: "Obesity could soon overtake smoking as the leading killer of Americans." [emphasis added] That means it hasn't yet.
I don't see anything in the third link that specifically compares the economic or health burden of obesity/overweight to that of cigarette smoking, nor do I see numbers that can be used to make that comparison for the current or recent situations.
The fourth link is actually counter to your argument, presenting the case by FOX News that the CDC has overestimated the burden of obesity, citing the CDC's 2004 downward revision of the estimated deaths due to obesity. Additionally, from that same link:
quote:First, there is little evidence to support the notion that otherwise healthy adults have shorter lifespans simply because they may be overweight. In fact, the new CDC study reported that adults who are merely “overweight” actually live longer on average than adults who are of “normal weight.”
Next, there is absolutely no evidence to support the notion that, for otherwise healthy children, childhood weight determines or impacts longevity.
Your fifth link specifies that obesity is not the number one cause of mortality in the US, similar to the second link. This is counter to your argument. Additionally, the data cited in this article are quite outdated (and to your conclusion's detriment), since the CDC has since revised that cited 400,00 deaths per year attributable to obesity/overweight down to about corrected: less than 1/13th that number (see link four, the FOX article, for details).
---
quote:How much more do you need?
Given that none of your links support your claims, but in fact disprove them, I'd say there is still quite a bit more necessary.
Again, I don't disagree that obesity/overweight is a major health problem. I just dispute the claims you have specifically made in this thread about the burden of it relative to the burden established for cigarette smoking.
[ May 16, 2007, 03:00 AM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
Posted by Roseauthor (Member # 148) on :
no, it's a program. They didn't use real human data. NOT one coroner would tell you he reported 'smoking related' to the CDC for this program.
Check your programmers. Check the coroners and ask them if they added this to their database! It didn't happen.. it's just a program.
Quit minimalising the fat issue. This health issue is more of a concern than the smoking! Only 18% smoke now.. over 70% are over weight.. let's look at the basic numbers! FAT is worse! More COST MORE
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Originally posted by Roseauthor: no, it's a program. They didn't use real human data. NOT one coroner would tell you he reported 'smoking related' to the CDC for this program.
And that is different from obesity-related data in what way?
quote:Quit minimalising the fat issue. This health issue is more of a concern than the smoking! Only 18% smoke now.. over 70% are over weight.. let's look at the basic numbers! FAT is worse! More COST MORE
*again, gently
I think you are confusing your passion (which is indeed formidable) with evidence. Passion doesn't substitute for well-gathered data or critical analysis.
This is quite well illustrated in your last post -- those numbers, like the links you gave, do not imply what you think they do. Unfortunately, I think it is beyond my skill to explain to you why, though I would be willing to try if it might help.
---
Edited to add: On further reflection, I doubt any such interaction would improve the situation. I think I'll bow out for now (my apologies!), though I reserve the option to correct future inaccuracies in claims about matters of fact if I see them.
[ May 16, 2007, 02:48 AM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
Posted by Andrew W (Member # 4172) on :
Smoking is a 'dirty' habit, if by that you mean stained teeth (avoidable in the medium term with good oral hygeine, but it is causing the stains even if you are cleaning them off), smelly clothes, house etc. It's also addictive, bad for the health, and tends to have a diminishing effect over time, which encourages people to smoke more.
On the upside it fosters extra chances for social contact, and can relieve stress and be enjoyable (though a certain part of that is merely alleviation of withdrawal symptoms)
Smoking weed is also related to all these effects, but is usually smoked far less often than even a medium cigarette smoker would smoke cigarettes. Thus the habit itself is significantly less 'dirty'. Smoking weed is not addictive (chemically at least), although the tobacco it's normally smoked with is. The amount and frequency smoked will also tend to increase over time, as with smoking, but the perception at least, is that it tends to happen differently. Most people who smoke weed socially will not end up smoking intermittently throughout the day, whether alone or not. It would be seen as something more akin to alcohol, where people do tend to become heavier or more frequent drinkers after starting drinking, but not everyone goes on to become an alcoholic. Weed is also harmful to the health when smoked, though this is not the only method of ingestion. Weed also has many psychological effects that are not well understood at the moment. It is thought to be a risk factor for developing schizophrenia amongst other things, especially if smoked regularly or heavily by young teenagers.
On the upside, smoking weed can be a very pleasurable experience, the effects far stronger and longer lasting than cigarettes, and is very often a very social event - when people are passing around a joint it'd be very strange not to interact with each other. Though in heavy smokers smoking alone can be common, and the social benefits can be lost. It is also often linked to creativity by many people, whether or not you give that any credence, I'll leave up to you.
So the opinion of lots of people I know is that smoking is dirty, and stupid - since they think the benefits are few and the downsides serious; but they feel that smoking weed is less dirty (re: frequency), and risky - since there are clear benefits, but potential dangers (especially if you were to become a heavy weed smoker), but their opinion as to the stupidity varies depending on how risk-taking they are.
I tend to share that opinion mostly, since smoking isn't hugely great and addiction and disease are very high risks. Whereas I see smoking weed more as I see my flatmate's addiction to climbing. He really enjoys it, there are clear benefits from that - but there is a fair amount of potential danger there as well. One of his friends died recently, and they're always getting injured. It's dangerous, I don't know if I would do it, but I don't think it's stupid to knowingly take that risk, in pursuit of that enjoyment. Life would be very boring if no-one took risks, it's just balancing the risks against the potential benefits that's necessary.
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
I am a non-smoker.
quote:Smoking is a 'dirty' habit, if by that you mean stained teeth (avoidable in the medium term with good oral hygeine, but it is causing the stains even if you are cleaning them off), smelly clothes, house etc.
I remember the "smoking stains your teeth, yellows your eyes, and makes you smell" ads; I guess those are the anti-smoker ads we've discussed here before. I remember is the Truth campaign, because their commercials grabbed your attention. The Philip Morris ads stick out in my mind because they were so ironic. There's a life insurance ad that has been running in this area for years which states that the low premiums it advertises are only available for nonsmokers. DARE didn't dissuade me from smoking or doing drugs as much as it made me interested in biology, and curious about this strange minefield called "Adolescence."
Nobody I knew personally smoked in my presence, and I was never offered a cigarette when I was growing up. I remember being mildly surprised upon discovering that a few of my peers were smokers.
I liked reading, and the science behind the dangers of smoking is simple enough that I could understand it, even at that a young age. My aunt was a smoker and she had a hard time quitting. At the time I couldn't understand addiction -- and that scared me more than lung cancer.
All in all, I was never presented with the opportunity to start, and was never inclined to seek it out myself.
--j_k
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
1 . Did/do you like the fact that you smoke? If so, what did/do you like about it? I like smoking for the buzz, for having something to play with in my hand, and for the way smoke moves through the air. I love to smoke and read. I'm a bit mixed on the fact that I smoke, mostly because of of the health and economic reasons. I smoke a pack every three-to-four days.
2. Did you start smoking after people officially knew it was "bad for you" (eg 1960s) and if so, did you have any formal "anti-tobacco" education? Were you a smoker at that time? How did you feel about it then? Do you think they helped a lot of people not become smokers, or make it nerdier not to smoke? How do you feel about such programs now? I know I had education about smoking at various points in my childhood. I don't really remember much of it. Smoking wasn't something I cared about.
3. Did your parents smoke? Did they care whether or not you smoked? My father smoked, but quit (cigarettes) before I was born. He still had the odd cigar on occaision, which was something on the order of 2-3 a year. Both my parents have made it clear to me that they would like me to quit.
4. Did you see lots of ads for cigarettes when you were little? Did they make you think smoking was cool? How do you make your decisions on which brand of cigarettes to purchase? I can just barely remember seeing cigarette ads on TV, and they used to be everywhere in magazines. I never remember looking at those ads and thinking "I need to try that!"
I smoke American Spirits (I know, I'm a hippie) because they don't have additives. Except that I smoke menthols, so go figure. I can really taste the difference, but am under no illusions that they are a "healthier" cigarette.
5. Growing up, what did you think about cigarettes? Were you anti-smoking as a little kid? As I said before, I really didn't.
6. Did you ever want to smoke because a movie character did? Did movies make smoking look cool? Look cool? yes. Like it or not, smoking can be an effective way to set a mood. Again though, they never made me want to rush out and buy a pack.
7. Did an older role model that you knew personally smoked? Nope.
8. Do you associate smoking with rebellion, fitting in or neither? A bit of each. More so with rebellion now, because smoking is losing social acceptance. It's going to be kind of funny later in life when younger generations look on mine as the generation that was educated about nicotine, but was stupid enough to smoke anyway. It's going to be weird explaining it to my kids, when I have some. I feel the same way about the Bush, Clinton, Bush (Clinton?) presidential line.
9. How did you first start smoking? Were you legally allowed to buy cigarettes when you stared? I was 18 when I started smoking (I'm 23 now). I tried tobacco to go along with weed. It's only become a habit in the last 3 years or so and was very periodic before that. I quit the pot (the experience changed, I don't find it at all enjoyable anymore), but still going with the tobacco.
Posted by dean (Member # 167) on :
1 . Did/do you like the fact that you smoke? If so, what did/do you like about it?
For awhile, I was impressed by the fact of my smoking. Now, it's more of a habit, so I don't really think about it.
Working in the service industry as I do, I wouldn't get breaks at all if not for the fact that I smoke. Before I smoked, at one of my jobs, I got in trouble for taking breaks like the smokers did. The rationale was, "You're not a smoker; you don't need that break." At my current job, a smoker will tend to get a nearly-guaranteed break at eleven and at two as opposed to the maybe-one-maybe-none a non-smoker gets (assuming the smoker and non-smoker are both working from eight to five with no breaks officially mandated). If we're not busy, the smoker may get another two at ten and four. (Of course, if we're really busy, all breaks are imaginary, but management tries to ensure that smokers get a "reasonable" number of breaks.)
I associate smoking with relaxing. On my drive home from work, I tend to smoke three cigarettes in a row. It feels like a concrete symbol that my time is now my own, that I don't have to rush if I don't want to, that I can do what I want at my own pace.
Smoking also gives me something to do when I would otherwise be impatient. I was in a bad traffic jam the other day and got off at a different exit than my usual one. That exit was mobbed by people getting off the freeway to avoid the jam plus the usual amount of traffic for that intersection. For the people getting off the freeway, they had to merge through three lanes to get to the left turn to continue on the way they wanted to go. As I was waiting to merge, I saw arms begin to extend from cars, all holding cigarettes. Non-smokers I've seen have sometimes ranted and raved or taken risks because of their impatience in a slow driving situation. I, like these other people, merely smoked another cigarette and waited.
I also notice that smoking is something that my friends and I do while talking. Sometimes, when it's not my turn to speak, I used to find myself actively fidgeting while listening. Smoking is a routine that allows me to do something that feels useful but that is so automatic that I can still pay attention. I can't tell you how many deep and heartfelt conversations I've had with close friends while sharing a pack of cigarettes. It feels more intimate that we're smoking as we talk. It feels like it's not a rushed information-gathering expedition like many other talks I've had. It feels like time set aside for conversation. It feels sort of old-fashioned like writing a letter long-hand rather than sending an e-card.
Two of my coworkers are reluctant smokers. One had almost quit. Then she got back into this job, and gradually started smoking a cigarette a week. Then one a day. Then one or two a day. The other one had quit under pressure from her, and now is up to a pack every two or three days or so. I try not to pressure either of them to smoke, and I know I smoke far more than either of them. From time to time, we will, two or three of us, take a break together and have a cigarette, usually at the end of a long shift. Think, if you both come in at eight am, stay until five pm, then come back at eight-thirty pm and stay until one am, and talk all the time indoors about work issues, and then you go outside and smoke and talk about funny things that have happened to you or vent your frustrations, it's like that. Outside, the conversation isn't goal-oriented.
Sometimes, a few times a day, you just need to stop rushing around and look at different scenery and to forget the regular stresses of the job.
2. Did you start smoking after people officially knew it was "bad for you" (eg 1960s) and if so, did you have any formal "anti-tobacco" education? Were you a smoker at that time? How did you feel about it then? Do you think they helped a lot of people not become smokers, or make it nerdier not to smoke? How do you feel about such programs now?
I started smoking in 2004, and for my entire life, everyone always knew it was bad for you. In fact, for my entire life, smoking commercials were not allowed on TV. I had "DARE" in elementary school, and several teachers in junior high and high school who went out of their way to point out how dumb smoking is. One high school teacher who I knew of got ahold of math textbooks from another country and pointed out how awesome it was that they had anti-smoking messages inserted between the chapters. He also, as a mathematician, pointed out that many people seemed to think that it was statistically likely that they would win the lotto but statistically unlikely that they would die from causes related to their smoking, while the reverse is more likely to be true.
At the time, I had just a sort of general boredom with the proceedings. Like many forms of overt preaching, I found it to be preachy. Some forms of the presentation were fun, but for the most part, it was dull stuff, endlessly repeated. There was also a sense of black and white thinking and naivety that made the whole thing seem unimportant or irrelevant.
3. Did your parents smoke? Did they care whether or not you smoked?
My parents never smoked or drank and acted rather self-righteous on that count. They both seemed to believe that rather large character flaws could be made up for by the fact that they were "clean," in this way.
One of my brothers smokes, probably as much as or more than I do. He has smoked since he was fourteen or fifteen, first hanging around with my friends who smoked who made it clear that they would give me cigarettes if I wanted them (though I didn't) and later making smoker friends his own age.
My mother, who doesn't know I smoke, seems to regard my brother smoking in much the same way she regards my living with my boyfriend. It is a sign of moral depravity and immaturity, and you should take the fact of that behavior (and your desire for that behavior) as a sign that you must repent and turn to the light. She is also deeply disappointed.
My father is a small enough persona in my life that the fact that he doesn't know I smoke is immaterial.
My older sister has expressed disappointment and disapproval and a willingness to help me quit whenever I choose that I find far more convincing and sympathetic.
4. Did you see lots of ads for cigarettes when you were little? Did they make you think smoking was cool? How do you make your decisions on which brand of cigarettes to purchase?
I remember the occasional billboard of all-American-type people outside at a park all grinning maniacally as they did something so fun it appeared to have melted their brains (none of them smoking) with a large picture of a pack of cigarettes on the side. Naturally, I thought that these advertisements were strange more than anything else.
I was more impressed by the people I knew who smoked. They tended to be hedonistic, slightly-older teens who stood outside smoking, avoiding police, ditching school, dying their hair strange colors, and getting piercings. They seemed cool because they had a somewhat cynical, anti-establishment sort of cachet, plus they acted like they were adults. They also tended to be witty and street-wise and knowing in the ways that I wished to be. They tended to have fun with reckless abandon. I felt like when I was with them, my fun was often spoiled by the fact that I couldn't stop thinking of potential consequences. They never seemed sad or down or worried. It seemed as if nothing really hurt them, that they were afraid of nothing, and that they were content with life if they had friends with which to smoke, drop acid, and say witty things. I was decidedly a third-wheel and an outsider with them, and not one that they really liked, and it made me want to fit in with them all the more. It seemed to me as though they were the very epitome of cool.
I smoked with them only a few times, and didn't start smoking until almost ten years later. However, I do think that the ways I idealized them did effect my decision to smoke when I eventually did.
I smoked Camel Lights when I started smoking, partly because of the buy one, get one offers. And partly because that's what everyone my age seemed to see as the default cigarette. Later, I bummed a cigarette off of my boss, despite her warning that it was a menthol and I wouldn't like it. I liked it a great deal off the bat, and so I started buying Marlboro menthols. Later, I went back to Camels, but bought menthols. Later still, I lost my job and couldn't afford expensive cigarettes and gradually switched to Basic menthols, and now to Liggett Select menthols 100s because they are extremely cheap. (I get them for about two dollars a pack when I buy them by the carton.)
5. Growing up, what did you think about cigarettes? Were you anti-smoking as a little kid?
As a small child, I was extremely anti-cigarette, just as I was extremely anti-everything-my-parents-were-against. As a younger teenager, I thought cigarettes were super-cool, but way too super-cool for me. As an older teenager and younger twenty-something, cigarettes were something I abstained from out of a promise I'd made to someone. Now, in my mid-twenties, they're just an everyday commonplace thing.
Before leaving the house, you check to make sure that you have your ID, your car keys, your smokes and your lighter. It's just one of those things.
6. Did you ever want to smoke because a movie character did? Did movies make smoking look cool?
The only movie character I can think of who smokes is Rick from Casablanca. And yes, he seemed really cool and he looked cool smoking. But I never thought that a pack of cigarettes would take me to that world or make me into that character.
7. Did an older role model that you knew personally smoked?
Some of my older friends who I admired smoked. One of them encouraged me to smoke with him, though I never, ever did. No one I adored and really looked up to smoked, though.
8. Do you associate smoking with rebellion, fitting in or neither?
I don't really associate smoking with either anymore. I used to associate it with rebellion, but in my current circle of friends, it's far more common for people to smoke than not. I don't do it to fit in or rebel, and both seem like foreign concepts to me.
9. How did you first start smoking? Were you legally allowed to buy cigarettes when you stared?
I was 24 when I started smoking, and it was totally legal. I went through a huge, abrupt upheaval in my life. Everything I thought that was stable in my life had disappeared or changed completely from what I thought it was. The vast majority of my close friends disappeared never to be seen or heard from again. I ended up moving four times in less than a year, and I went through a major depression.
One of my close friends on his way out, who had never smoked before that I knew of, offered me a cigarette and smoked one with me, then basically said that I should never smoke again, and anyway, "Bye forever." I started buying cigarettes though I rarely smoked them and knew no one who smoked. Later, I started dating a reluctant smoker who would smoke only if those around him had cigarettes. He was then working in the job I'm working in now, and generally smoked one or maybe two cigarettes on some days. I found the taste of smoke on his breath really nice and sexy. When I bought cigarettes, he would smoke some with me, and it was a point of bonding. Later, I met his friends, and they became my friends, and nearly all of them smoke.
Posted by SoaPiNuReYe (Member # 9144) on :
Kudos to anyone who read dean's post lol.
I smoke weed. I don't feel the need to explain myself or argue too much about it on an online forum.
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
I read dean's entire post. Thanks to everyone who repsonded. I wasn't trying to start a thread on whether smoking is bad. I'm actually in the "cigarettes are bad" camp, but I've never been in the situation where I would understand why someone would start smoking. You're told in DARE to just say no, and it's going to kill you and cost you a bunch of money doing it. You also get the distinct impression that you will be walking in a dark alley and a older teenager in a black leather jacket is going to offer you a cigarette and then call you chicken as you walk away. You also get the impression that all people who smoke tried it before they were legally allowed to smoke and magically became smokers.
It's also interesting to see that most people who do smoke don't do it because of ads, or movies, or and older person they know, but mostly because their friends smoke. To be fair this seems to be a chicken or egg effect: you either smoke because your friends do, or you end up befriending smokers if you are one because you meet them outside right away and have chances to talk.
Reading this, I think smoking in movies just bothers nonsmokers, and never made smokers want to smoke. Same with ads, although weed isn't advertised at all (well, duh), but people still smoke it. Two movies I can think of with cigarette that have peer pressure overtones are Grease and Now and Then.
The extra break thing is really interesting too. My mom works in a cafeteria and thought it was pretty unfair that the smokers got extra breaks
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
quote:Originally posted by ClaudiaTherese: From your second link: "Obesity could soon overtake smoking as the leading killer of Americans." [emphasis added] That means it hasn't yet.
Just to further add to your point, I would also note that obesity should fall off a lot faster (compared to smoking) when you get out of the States and look at developing countries.
I'm pretty sure the US would actually be a "best/highest case" scenario for the ratio of obesity costs to smoking costs when compared to places like China or India.
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
quote:You also get the impression that all people who smoke tried it before they were legally allowed to smoke and magically became smokers.
As of 1998 (the latest study I've read), the age that someone started smoking was highly correlated to whether they got addicted or not, with earlier smoking -> increased addiction rates.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by theamazeeaz: It's also interesting to see that most people who do smoke don't do it because of ads, or movies . . .
Or at least that they are not consciously aware of such an influence.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
Everyone knows better than us!
Posted by Luet13 (Member # 9274) on :
Memorial day weekend would have been my ten year anniversary of when I started smoking. I started when I was fourteen. Yikes! I quit this past January. I have had about three or four slip ups, but since I subsequently quit drinking in April, I've been fine.
I still have dreams that I'm smoking. But I'll tell you, I feel so much better now that I quit. I wake up without my mouth feeling like an old tavern floor. I can smell things better and taste better. It's amazing.
And it's funny, because when I was still smoking, I never really thought my sense of taste or smell was that affected. Boy was I wrong. It's also nice to be able to run across the street when the light is changing and not be heaving out of breath for the next ten minutes.
But I don't hold smoking against anyone. I think I understand better than someone who hasn't been a smoker just how great smoking can feel. I'm just done with that now.
Posted by JennaDean (Member # 8816) on :
I don't smoke, so "NO" to all of the questions. But:
quote: For me, it's largely the joint immediate excuse to leave a room to be with a smaller number of people, sharing an activity we enjoy.
This sounded like the reason to smoke that would tempt me most. I would LOVE to have an immediate excuse to leave a crowd and go be with a smaller group of people I liked. I can get very anxious in crowds.
On a side note, I think one can say that no individual movie or actor influenced them to smoke - they didn't want to smoke just because Danny Zuko did, that'd be stupid - but the whole image that the "cool people" or "rebels" smoked is definitely part of our culture, and has had an influence on the way smoking is viewed in the culture as a whole.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mucus:
quote:Originally posted by ClaudiaTherese: From your second link: "Obesity could soon overtake smoking as the leading killer of Americans." [emphasis added] That means it hasn't yet.
Just to further add to your point, I would also note that obesity should fall off a lot faster (compared to smoking) when you get out of the States and look at developing countries.
I'm pretty sure the US would actually be a "best/highest case" scenario for the ratio of obesity costs to smoking costs when compared to places like China or India.
But in same token if you look at China or especially Japan, smoking is far more widespread then it is here I would think. They still have cigarette vending machines everywhere and I seriously doubt anyone would stop a 13 year old from buying them. There are no smoking codes for how far from a building you have to be, or you can't smoke in parks, etc. But their obesity rates are extremely low because of their diets, sumo wrestling notwithstanding .
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: ...I'm pretty sure the US would actually be a "best/highest case" scenario for the ratio of obesity costs to smoking costs when compared to places like China or India.
But in same token if you look at China or especially Japan, smoking is far more widespread then it is here I would think. They still have cigarette vending machines everywhere and I seriously doubt anyone would stop a 13 year old from buying them. There are no smoking codes for how far from a building you have to be, or you can't smoke in parks, etc. But their obesity rates are extremely low because of their diets, sumo wrestling notwithstanding . [/QB]
I think Mucus' point was that if obesity a greater relative economic burden or health issue than smoking (as Roseauthor was suggesting), then it would be so in the US -- where it isn't. That is to say, it doesn't trump cigarette smoking in the US, so it probably doesn't anywhere.
The fact that there is more smoking elsewhere would only highlight that point still further.
(That is, I don't think you guys disagree.)
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
quote:On a side note, I think one can say that no individual movie or actor influenced them to smoke - they didn't want to smoke just because Danny Zuko did, that'd be stupid - but the whole image that the "cool people" or "rebels" smoked is definitely part of our culture, and has had an influence on the way smoking is viewed in the culture as a whole.
I see your point about cultural influence in more subtle ways. The bad part about the smoking in Grease, however was with Sandy. Makeovers in movies generally rub me the wrong way, but the "happy" ending with Sandy changing to smoke and drink like her friends was a little too much.
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
I have a small thought to add to the discussion about the social advantages: I don't smoke, but when people go outside to smoke, especially coworkers, I tend to go too. I go for the conversation and general social contact. I make sure I'm out of the way of the smoke though.
Smoking, in my experience, does lead to social contact, but that would probably happen anyway. Some people just like to go outside during a work break.
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
I read Dean's post and I thought it was really interesting.
I was raised in an anti-smoking house (both parents non-smokers, Mum a GP) and my grandmother died of, among other things, complications from smoking.
Still, when I was 15 I tried smoking. For - cool, I guess. I had friends older than me who smoked, and I wanted to fit in. They never overtly pressured me, but I still wanted to be one them. Roll my own cigarettes. Be cool. Luckily, I had mild asthma, and I never got more than a puff or two into a cigarette than I either felt tight in the chest or was sick.
So I smoked maybe 8 cigarettes from 15 to 18, when I realised that what I was doing was stupid. So I stopped. A big part of that was seeing one of my friends, a smoker friend, who always insisted she wasn't addicted and could stop anytime she wanted to.
Long story short, someone bet her to stop and she couldn't. And while I hadn't smoked much at all, I realised again how stupid the idea of taking up smoking was (especially as it mad me vomit and made it hard to breathe.)
My grandfather, who smoked more than my grandmother, died a few months ago. Part of the reason was his lifetime of smoking, the removal of his lung cancer, and the impact on his lungs, compacted with his other health problems. In the end, it was his lungs that killed him.
I can understand why people start smoking. I find it harder to understand as to why they choose to continue.
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when you first tried smoking, you now do it purely on its own merits not to please anyone else?
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