Yes, my Dad was in tears at my senior composer's concert last week. It's been great actually, he's been, you know, engaging in conversation with me again for the first time since I got back from England. My Mom credits the change with a) his new sugar monitor, which gives him a blood sugar read-out all day, so he doesn't get low, and b) his nighttime breathing machine that's actually allowing him to sleep without asphyxiating. Tonight I was paying a visit to the house in SF and I played a Tenacious D song for him, and had him cracking up in a way he hasn't in, like, forever.
Personally, I want to think it's because he has found new respect for what I do. He wrote me an email saying as much. Since I dedicated a movement of the string quartet to him, without telling him, he was a little choked up during the concert, and my Dad doesn't get choked up over just anything.
So I'm repacking this thread so a few more of you can enjoy the wondrous healing mystical magical powers of music. My music. 24 hours a day, confined to this corner of the interwebs.
After my successful undergraduate concert, "WTF," I finished all my exams and essays, and am now done with school (except a summer school class... )
I have some recordings of the concert. This is not all there was, but all I will share at this moment, or have had time to edit in Logic and make presentable here, in rough form:
This piece was composed last of all my SQ music. I wrote it in the space of one hour, directly before a rehearsal with the ensemble, because I was dissatisfied with the tone of the rest of the piece and wanted something mournful and heavy in the middle. This seems to be good ground for expansion, and I've arranged to write an orchestral version for the University Orchestra next year. It was dedicated to my father, who cried at the concert. The influences are primarily Thomas Newman and Shostakovich.
This piano and voice piece I have mentioned before, but had no recording until this concert. I wrote it about 18 months ago for a friend to play as part of a music theory class. It is a setting of an Allan Ginsberg elegiac poem to Walt Whitman, with reference to Eliot and Pound.
I have posted Friction already, and that, with this new second movement were played along with "Forest Pavan" as a three part set with video from a TCS (Techno-culture Studies) friend of mine. This piece plays with the themes of the previous one, and allows the player a lot of expressive freedom, but is unpredictable and wilder than some of my other music. It was composed in only three sittings.
[ June 13, 2008, 04:30 AM: Message edited by: Orincoro ]
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Oh, and I apologize for the digital noise in the file, that was introduced by accident (in the conversion), and I'll try and post a cleaner version later on.
There are key parts, such as in the beginning, when localized digital noise (relative to the sounds, like the first cry) is intrinsic in the composition. Unfortunately this has been obscured.
The piece also uses a very wide bandwidth (down to 30 hertz) so a good set of headphones or speakers would be ideal for catching the low passes.
Posted by Flaming Toad on a Stick (Member # 9302) on :
I liked it. Good job. Posted by BandoCommando (Member # 7746) on :
Haunting. Nice job Orincoro! I particularly liked the use of reverb. I don't know much about the particular aesthetics of electronic music, so I can't speak in specifics, but I certainly liked it. It is evocative of plainchant, in my mind, both because of the reverb (cathedral like) and because of the mode.
Posted by Luet13 (Member # 9274) on :
I liked it too. Some of the vocal parts reminded me of Hindi style chant, but I'm kinda with BandoCommando on the plainchant thing too. Very nice. Posted by the doctor (Member # 6789) on :
That is wonderful. It reminds me of some of my favorite stuff from Peter Gabriel -- or rather the electronic musicians he has used in the past.
Great job!
Do you have more? I want more!
MORE!!!
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
I couldn't play it. What application should I use?
Posted by anti_maven (Member # 9789) on :
Nice work Orinoco. One complint - it was too short
Post more!
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
I'll have you know maven, that scant 2 minutes took 15 hours of lab time to construct.
Icarus, I used Itunes- it's an mp4 encoded by Itunes- I don't know that wmp can play it.
Thanks for the compliments everyone!
I have a recording session in the works for two of my chamber pieces, a piano song, and a solo cello piece. If all those go well, I'll post.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Realplayer, Icky.
Posted by anti_maven (Member # 9789) on :
15 hours? Then what are you doing here posting? Get back into the lab, time is music!
Posted by Dragon (Member # 3670) on :
Very cool.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
I'm contemplating the next project as we speak (due in two weeks). It has to include a fair bit of digital synthesis though, and that's scary!
Posted by Totally Anonymous (Member # 2346) on :
I don't have the right player installed for this. Is this the one with the attractive Asian woman playing the violin?
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Cute.
Actually it's funny, the voice that comes in at the end is an attractive asian Viola player, and she is singing a viola part from Rite of spring... so go figure that out.
[ May 31, 2007, 02:09 AM: Message edited by: Orincoro ]
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
I *loved* this piece, Lloyd. The timbres are just fascinating with the viola da gamba and the samples that make up the background/bass line. Nice clear voices too, which one is yours?
My favorite thing about this is the interplay with different modes in the notes you're singing--I hear it starting in something like a B phrygian with the B-D opening idea, but I love the little C#-C move at the 30 second mark to change into what sounds like Eflat minor (very cool key to change to.) I love the touch of C natural at the 1:07 mark giving it a dorian feel for a second--very cool. It's that interplay between the major 2nd/flat 2nd and the major 6th/flat 6th which really makes this piece stand out from your basic modal improvisation. Lastly, the Aflat major chord leading into the touch of the "picardy" third at the end is brilliant. I'd love to hear more of your stuff.
Posted by rollainm (Member # 8318) on :
Very nice.
Posted by Earendil18 (Member # 3180) on :
Orincoro, this is great for 15 hours! I wanted to hear more development from those instruments that come in at 1:56appx, those added a lot!
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
iTunes worked.
Cool! Very moody and atmospheric. I liked the Native American sounding part about two-thirds of the way through. A lot of the music I like has strong Native American influences.
What's it say when you play it backward? Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
You know Andy, I didn't even consider that the ending gesture was a picardy. The way I constructed it, I was just layering a couple of the modal samples together. You end up with a picardy made up of two layered neopolitan flat IIs (I think?) going to V. If you listen closely to that part, you'll also hear the low voice singing Doh at the beginning and then morphing into the major third, while the re goes to doh. I liked the interaction so much, I think I'll use it in an acoustic piece.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
I was thinking it would be a picardy third if you were actually in Eflat minor--or having Eflat as the final of your chant, perhaps. I don't think it's picardy in the Baroque sense, but there's definitely an Eflat and a G natural sounding in the last seconds, which I just thought was particularly cool when you had a minor feel for the rest of the piece. Neopolitan chords rock, though. I like resolving them straight to "I" instead of going to "V".
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
This is my third project for Electronic composition, and by far the hardest to realize. I'm beginning to understand my own compositional process and how inefficient it is.
I have issues with this piece, and I didn't have enough studio time to make them all right. My flagrant use of both Palistrina and Crumb/Schubert (Death of a Maiden Pavana) bothers me and I don't know what to do about it.
The project was defined as an experiment in colliding multiple sound worlds. You'll notice I have close sounds: electronic and electrical interference sounds, faraway sounds: voices and strings, and ambiguous sounds: the breaths and Pavana.
The music and sound sources are:
a Viola Da Gamba My voice A cello and cellist Bartok's Solo Violin Sonata O Magnum Mysterium, by I think Palistrina... could be wrong The Rite of Spring- Muti (you'll never hear that part of it though, it's pretty different)
Enjoy and engage!
Posted by Flaming Toad on a Stick (Member # 9302) on :
Again, good job.
Good: The "soaring" string instrumentation was really stellar, very inventive. Lyrics are solid, if a bit loud at times. Even the "stuttering" effects fit well, breaking the song's norm while still finding a place.
Not as good: Not the biggest fan of the key changes you used. Just a matter of opinion I suppose. As you mentioned, the lack of fine-editing does show, but only slightly.
Keep it up. You're really good at this.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
:Bump:
Thanks for the feedback and kind words everyone!
I'll continue to post pieces in this thread as recordings and files become available.
You can look for 4 of my pieces in the future, some things i've been meaning to share for awhile, and some things brand new. They are:
"The Raven" A romantic Song from 2006 "A supermarket in Southern California" A spoken word and piano piece from 2006 "Rising Shadows" A piano trio (cello and clarinet) and spoken word piece from 2007 "Friction" A solo cello piece performed last week at a department concert
I am planning on having a concert of my own music in combination with a composer friend in Davis next year. As pieces become available I will post them for your perusal!
Posted by Flaming Toad on a Stick (Member # 9302) on :
All righty then. Keep us posted.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Hi folks, I finally got the recording of "Friction" and had time to sit down and edit the thing before I leave for Europe. This is a somewhat rough cut (sorry it's still a .wav file) where I have normalized some of the problem spots and reverbed when appropriate.
If you ever do sound editing from a fairly flat source like one studio microphone, it's rather like trying to make a gourmet dinner out of a pile of TV dinners. It can only really be faked- reverb is like the re-animation of canned vegetables. They were good once, I swear!
I am using fileden, and with a 40mb file I could easily blow my monthly quota (5GB) if you refresh this too many times. Please click the link once and be patient. Thanks!
About the piece: This started a movement in a larger ensemble and poetry piece. I decided to turn it into a tone poem. There are quotation-like segments and repetitive textures that attempt to maintain a static narrative for the piece without traditional musical narratives. The phrases are intentionally "phrase-like" as in speech and dramatic speaking.
There is also, for the very acute listener, a direct quotation from Bartok somewhere in the middle. Who can name it??
The cellist is a good friend of mine: Lucas Chen presently of San Francisco Conservatory of Music.
Posted by Flaming Toad on a Stick (Member # 9302) on :
I didn't catch the reference, although there was a line near the middle that did stand out as familiar. For an early job, the mixing ain't half bad, but it still has an overall "flat" feeling to it. Unfortunately, this is most noticeable at the more "climactic" parts of the song.
As for the music, I really enjoyed it. The repitition was well-placed and not overdone, and it didn't jump all over the place, musically. Definitely something worth refining, rerecording and remixing, IMHO.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
quote:Originally posted by Flaming Toad on a Stick: I didn't catch the reference, although there was a line near the middle that did stand out as familiar. For an early job, the mixing ain't half bad, but it still has an overall "flat" feeling to it. Unfortunately, this is most noticeable at the more "climactic" parts of the song.
One thing I learned in classes is that "flat" sound in "manager-speak" translates to "too much compression" in "recording-speak."
I don't know anything about fixing it. But for what it's worth, if someone says something sounds flat, apparently it means too much compression.
-pH
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Yes, pH (long time btw!) the recording suffers from overall "crapiness." It was a single mic in a music lecture hall full of people. The ambient sound is surprisingly low, but the reaction I had listening to the recording was "BLECH." It was dreary and dreadful.
I only spent about 30 minutes today cleaning it up to look at least presentable for you kind folks. The incredible power of reverb (when applied wisely) never ceases to amaze. You should consider reverb to be the equivelant of color versus black and white. It makes the sound come alive and seem real.
That said, as far as composition goes, I have joyous spots and cringe spots still. The harmonic tapping I tried to include was weak and unclear, although the cellist had one day to learn the piece (and probably only spent about an hour on it). The descending lines over sustained tones didn't work technically, and should be revised to avoid a narrative car crash.
The ending page- including the last 3 large gestures, was the most praised by my teachers, and took only an hour to write the night before my concert, as the Cellist literally sat waiting for me to finish so he could learn it. This is often (surprisingly often) the best moment in a composer's process. You have the piece down. and now your kind of "performing" the final draft and the final flourish. The most improvised and natural part is the last to come from your head, sans revision or second thought. It was a great feeling to have made the piece work in that last day, because without the ending it dies.
Posted by Earendil18 (Member # 3180) on :
Reverb makes it happen.
I recorded a friend of mine one the piano for 5 minutes with just a shotgun microphone, and it sounded great after I tweaked it a bit.
It's no Diana Krall recording but...
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Update: Based on the strength of these projects two of my composition professors have offered me independent study projects next year! I will do one in winter as an independent (or possibly small group) study, and one as an independent study and Senior project. Very few students at my school are offered these opportunites, and this will total 4 such projects for me (woohoo!) This also allows the department to waive my normal upper division composition seminars in favor of my projects, and gives me about ten times as much personal attention on each project. It also sets up a featured concert of my own works by department musicians.
The two proffs (they are married) saw me at the park yesterday on my break and called me over to sit with them. Sam, my teacher for winter suggested that I write a string quartet with him and make that my project. He assigned me to go and study 5 string quartets- 3 like I like and 2 that I do not like. Our first meeting with review my studies. yay! I am excited for the future.
I heart music teachers. They are the best.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Another Update:
I've returned from my studies in England now and am preparing to return to music studies for two more quarters of mostly independent research and study/composition.
This is the beginning of the third (probably last) movement in my electronic cycle. It is being composed on Logic, so far from samplings of my cello piece of last june. I am going to add probably two more instruments, possibly a Soprano and a harp or Clarinet. I can't decide yet.
I enjoyed it. (I wish I had listened to the one at the top - I seem to have missed this thread when it debuted.)
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Give me a day and I'll renew all the links for you. thanks for listening
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
Great stuff again. Sounds like you had fun in England--and good luck with finishing out your degrees. After a semester in Boston, I'm a competent piano tuner, with a few more months before I feel like a full-fledged piano technician.
You, however, are already a fantastic composer. Keep em coming.
Posted by The Flying Dracula Hair (Member # 10155) on :
Wow hey I'm digging it, rock on with this. Listening to Breaths, though, I noticed a small patch of noise and two pops after that, a little halfway in the piece.
Looking forward to Outcry.
Posted by Flaming Toad on a Stick (Member # 9302) on :
Cool. I wish there was a slightly longer sample of that movement, give me a slightly better idea of where it was going, but take your time. I'm looking forward to more.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Ok, here are the new links, I'll erase the others and just have these together here at the bottom of the thread.
[ March 25, 2008, 04:38 AM: Message edited by: Orincoro ]
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Flying Dracula Hair: Wow hey I'm digging it, rock on with this. Listening to Breaths, though, I noticed a small patch of noise and two pops after that, a little halfway in the piece.
Yes, there was an issue with the mixdown. Some of the regions obviously got clipped due to some mistake of my own. There is also an issue with the end of the piece, and I haven't been able to obtain a proper mixdown since I've been in England for 6 months. The piece should be several seconds longer, but gets cut off.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
badabump
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Okay, here's the update. I'm finally graduating from my music program in june, and this is a set of electronic pieces that comprises about half of my senior portfolio. I think it's strong. Composition teacher thinks that, while it could stand tweaking and polishing, it's very strong, and he's been talking to me lately about my grad school options. So we'll see. My house mate just got into Brandeis for composition, and I thought I was the ambitious one...
Here are the movements thus far with my comments. Please, if you are interested, read and listen, post and comment. I am tentative on all the names, and names are very important.
My first electronic piece (fixed media). This was me finding my feet, and quite literally my voice in electronic music, and it garnered the best response from hatrackers so far. But then it was the first.
A second, and to my ears stronger foray into the same sonic world. At this point I was dealing entirely with fixed media, which means granular composition and editing, taking sources that I created in an analogue world, or found in an "analogue" environment in music, and altered in presentation and space within the medium. I loved this piece even more than the first, and it was a joy to write- during a series of all night sessions in the spring of last year, alone on campus in the studio.
This piece was the most deeply introspective of the lot. I composed it at odd times, visiting friends, between meals, in different programs, with different moods. It is suggestive of the serious side of a CPQ Bach- it is the most dark of the music I have here, but also contains the lightest moments. The ending is open, but I couldn't seem to leave the idea suggested in the last few minutes of the piece alone, and it comprised my idea for the 4th movement. More than space is at stake in this movement, it comes down to a kind of conversation between the different "me's" as a composer, a listener, a critic, happy and depressed.
Gasp! I wrote something rhythmically inclined. There was a kind of life force behind making this piece that brought the elements together more quickly than I was really willing to accept. The various parts were composed over the last few weeks, and I consider it a work in progress. It continually amazes me that music does things like this, that ideas work out in this medium so shockingly well, so much better than I could hope at times, that I think I must certainly be cheating. A composition teacher of mine last year complained that all of my music is always ending beautifully, always trailing off into solemn silence, but refusing to plug things out and stay in the moment for too long. I think that is what makes these pieces work, but I'd like to hear some criticism, and some comments.
[ March 25, 2008, 06:00 AM: Message edited by: Orincoro ]
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Did the last two links get left out accidentally, or is there only supposed to be 2 links? Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
I was adding them. They are now added.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
OK. I just listened to "Voices" and liked it, except for the clipped notes starting around 2:45.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
I'm working on that. It's a processing issue. As the reverb deals with the envelope differently, the clips come in unnexpectedly. It's just a matter of going in and smoothing them out, or setting up a better work around for snatching the tracks out of max than with wiretap. I haven't decided how to approach it, but it needs work.
But I must say Morbo, you have a really good ear.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
I thought it was an intentional effect you used.
I just listened to all 4, and I'm impressed. They're very professionally done.
As far as me having a good ear. . .I'm far more visually inclined. I just got G-Force, a visualization program for Windows Media Player (and other players) and I've been grooving on it's tasty visuals.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Well, when you say "clipped" voices, I assume you're talking about the effect of "clipping" which is when a sound is cut off abruptly, with no envelope, the speaker that is reproducing the wave form snaps back to create a "pop" or "click" or "clip" sensation. It's caused by a lack of data- it happens when a sound is not properly digitized or when it is effected by a change in bandwidth- so that information has actually been lost somewhere. One way to fix it is to go into the sound file and add envelopes to the clipped sounds manually, which is what I probably have to do.
If you just mean that you didn't like the quality of the sounds I was using, which have abrupt envelopes as well, but are not quite clipping, then that's something else.
And I will say, unfortunately, I have yet to see a sound editor program that can be trusted to edit clips for me. It's one of those things that humans still have to do.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Interesting. I hadn't heard of that speaker effect. I guess I'm referring to the abrupt envelopes, not sure.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I don't think these pieces were written with my musical tastes in mind. In all four, I felt vaguely like I was walking through a video game-- ala Myst. (Or Lighthouse, which is infinitely superior) I felt like a certain mood was being asked for by the music, but there was nothing, musically, for me to interpret what mood it wanted. By the time I'd started to figure out what I was feeling, another element was added and the process started over.
When I listen to instrumentals, I tend to write stories in my head that fit with the music. I couldn't do this with these because so many unexpected elements kept creeping in. I couldn't make a story that enveloped all the different pieces. I was left a bit disappointed and confused.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
So then, Scott, I'm assuming that "predictability" is not exactly what you have in mind, but that you would like ideas to be continued over longer periods so that you can come to terms with them?
Have you tried re-listening to the pieces? Given that I've listened to them hundreds of times, my perspective is pretty well shot.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
First off, awesome work. Your music and my brain go together well. It's taken multiple listens to get the full impression of the 4 pieces, and I love it when I actually want to keep listening to figure things out. I like how the work shows your personal progression in the electronic medium throughout the 4 current movements, and the sounds and ideas you play with are delectable. I think the 4th has the most going for it (great effect) even though "Outcry" is amazing for your first attempt.
I think you're right about the titles--especially "Space" doesn't fit, in my opinion. The two words that come to my mind from the whole work are "stark" and "wet". "River" is aptly named, but doesn't work with the "vocal" theme of the other 3 movements. I'd think about finding another voice-related title for the 4th movement and for the whole piece. Or you could go in another direction--why not something relating to your time in London? I always think of it as "wet" and "stark" there, and the tracks would fit right into "Kid A" or Aphex Twin's Ambient works (They're both from that island, right?). I also get an "elemental" vibe from all 4, like they could be fire, wind, earth, and water (in that order).
For Scott, I'd agree that this music doesn't fit into "storytelling" very well. It doesn't seem to have "intention" in that regard. I like it because it's subtle and a little bipolar (development happens very quickly). It's much more about leaving impressions rather than telling stories. I think all 4 could be developed more and that more movements could be eventually added.
Come to Boston with your housemate, Lloyd. We're rife with musicians, and I'll be here another year for piano rebuilding.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Thanks Ldubb. Of course you'd mention Kid A given that so much of the sound in River is scrubbed right out of Kid A- I do cheat on some things.
Maybe I should lean more towards environmental names that have to do with "space." How a river moves in space, how the other movements work with space. I'll have to think about it.
Posted by Uprooted (Member # 8353) on :
Orinoco, this is the first time I've read this thread because I really have no musical education and when I've read your comments in other threads, I just assumed that your music would be inaccessible and unlistenable to the untrained ear.
So, FWIW, I have to admit that I enjoyed Space in 4 movements. That's about as sophisticated a review as you're going to get from me. Congratulations on the good things that have happened to you so far.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Uprooted, thanks for the encouragements. I do generally pride myself on my music being very listenable- I always think that if I can't listen to it, no one else will be able to either.
And in my opinion, you'll never see me recommend a piece of music that isn't listenable or accessible to anyone- I genuinely think people just don't listen to enough music to tell the difference.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
Where DID you come up with the name "Orincoro", anyway? I've never met an Enya fan who was such a music snob at the same time.
Speaking of music snobs, I was so curious about the short sample of "O Magnum Mysterium" in Whispers that I went through my library to find the composer--It's Tomás Luis de Victoria, Spanish contemporary of Palestrina. While we're on the subject, I've noticed you say "Des Pres" --when a musicologist would refer to him by just his first name, "Josquin". Kind of like how no self-respecting artist would ever say the Mona Lisa was created by "Da Vinci".
Anyway--I just listened to "Friction" for the first time. Liked it a lot. I'd almost say it was too pretty for the title "Friction" Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Haha. Yes, Josquin. Well I've sung enough Josquin, two quarters worth in the early music ensemble, to call him whatever I want. I also played "La Spaña" in my renaissance consort, so I'm a veteran of Des Pres.
I always get Victoria and Palestrina confused though- but yes the piece is the O Magnum Mysterium from a Victoria mass. It's incidentally one of the greatest pieces of polyphony every written. Amazing.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
I'm considering it as part of an electro-acoustic piece to pair with the earlier cello work, and the movement I am writing right now for solo cello
This is, I think, the most technically accomplished electronic piece I've posted thus far. The overall sound quality has been improved as I've learned more about Logic and Max/Msp to help do just what I have in mind.
The piece was composed in three parts: first I built a patch in max/msp that would allow me to loud four samples of the cello, and then map their sampling speeds into a linear pattern that is unique for each sample. I started most of them at simple fractions of the final speed to give a sense of the "key" then designed the pattern to allow for individually marked glissandi, with each finally arriving on a pivoting set of chords. Then I arranged that in logic with a number of the samples in the native key interspersed through the piece, and used this to perform a vocal improvisation, which I then arranged at the end of the piece. Then I did my other Logic magic of EQ levels and compressors and densers, and I feel pretty done at this point.
Yay!
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
Best yet. Though you don't need any more praise from me.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Thanks LW, I do still appreciate the kudos. I just wish you weren't the only person listening. I guess that's a good sign that I really want people to listen- I feel proud of what I do.
Posted by Artemisia Tridentata (Member # 8746) on :
He isn't, just the only one commenting. I thought this latest one was great. Pavan, of course, is a dance, and I have been sitting here swaying to the music. It was easy to listen to. There was an old White Russian, through China, named Vladimir Ussachevsky on the faculty when I was in school. After large doses if his work, I have always been slow to appriciate electronic music. I'll listen to your Pavan anyday. Keep it up
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Unfortunately with electronic music, people stereotype and generalize in a way that is, for someone who actually works in an electronic medium some of the time, really ridiculous and ignorant.
But there remains plenty of culture capital stacked up against the electronic medium in its entirety to keep people from listening, and also to attract members of the music community who are used to or even like being outsiders and elitists. Alot of the crap of oneupmanship and "craziness" and "elite" have led people I know and people I've met into the electronic medium for about 99% of all the wrong possible reasons to make music.
I mean, you wouldn't say that you don't listen to music composed for guitar or violin because people who like those instruments don't share any of your tastes- there are violins and guitars in every style of music, so the idea that "electronic" music itself has an aesthetic per se is a narrow view. The idea of electronic music being or primarily inhabiting the scope of "electronica" hip-hop, pop, trance or house music is pure folk wisdom, with no traction in serious study, or even casual listening to electronic music. Of course these styles exist, and they employ technology in some related ways, but their aesthetics are as unrelated to my work as country or Celtic music.
People are willing to distinguish between Bach on guitar and Nirvana on the same guitar, but my laptop is apparently incapable of being separate from a 90's rave party. I was having a nice conversation with a middle aged woman at my local sushi restaurant, and she was asking me all about school and the university. I mentioned my upcoming concert and she said, "oh I'd like to go, what are you having played?" I said: "A string quartet and some electronic music." She said, "well I don't like that type of music myself." I was amazed, as I tend to be, by the ignorance, but also the assumption that she had any real idea what type of music it was. I imagine being told by someone that they had built a statue out of wood, and me saying: "well I'm not into wood statues," without knowing what the subject matter was, just that the substance used was wood.
Now I'll admit that we electronic composers compete with a fairly sizeable population of "wood sculptors" that churn out mindless crap. But we aren't *really* competing with them for anything but our dignity.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
I tried downloading the link target and it gets cut off at 3:53. I HATE listening to something that gets cut off before the very end. You should gmail me the file so I can put it on my ipod with your other music.
This brings up my single biggest pet peeve at live concerts: Applause before the end of a piece (between movements, after a solo passage). I understand that people want to show their appreciation, but often--my favorite moment in a piece is the silence after the final notes--when you can really take in the whole work and let the silence close it. I get that stolen from me way too often.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
I think it was Ives who orchestrated the end of one orchestral piece with about 12 measures of conducted silence. Very effective as I recall.
Launchy- you should try loading the file again, but waiting for the whole piece to load before you save it. Also try switching browsers. If it doesn't work you can email me for it.
Posted by Artemisia Tridentata (Member # 8746) on :
quote:This brings up my single biggest pet peeve at live concerts: Applause before the end of a piece (between movements, after a solo passage).
I applaud whenever my heart rate reaches the jump and shout level. If you are not moved to applaud after a cooking solo, you might consider having your soul recalabrated. Often the final cadence in a great performance will lift me to my feet. That is the beauty of live preformance. If you want glass listen to a studio recording.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
The cadenza to Mozart's first violin concerto is rarely called a cooking solo.
Posted by Artemisia Tridentata (Member # 8746) on :
I was ready to respond that I hade never applauded it in concert. But, upon reflection,I have witnessed this solo done with so much flash and personality (the artist was beaming, her teacher was sobbing, and I was amazed.)that I applauded right there. It was appropriate. Hey, if it moves you, then dance!
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
quote:If you are not moved to applaud after a cooking solo, you might consider having your soul recalabrated.
I'm plenty moved by incredible performances--but why should I be moved to applaud in the middle of the music? The thing is, I have way too much respect for the musicians and the music to start making noise while they're playing. Not to mention--I have respect for other listeners around me. I could just as easily say "if you want to make noise, listen to a studio recording instead of ruining my listening experience". My soul is calibrated just fine.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
I think the overall sense of self is probably involved in the distinction between noise makers and non-noise makers. I think we can agree that the soul expresses itself in its own unique way.
Posted by Mike (Member # 55) on :
Why are we arguing about this? There's a difference between classical music and jazz. As far as I can tell making noise is more about culture and context than anything else.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
"We" weren't arguing about anything. Yes, culture and context have to do with the "overall sense of self."
Posted by Artemisia Tridentata (Member # 8746) on :
quote:Why are we arguing about this? There's a difference between classical music and jazz.
Except that I am a classically trained orchestrial musician. I would agree about people who just clap because the guy in the next seat is clapping, or because the music stopped. But, as a performer, I am rewarded when someone is excited and moved by what I am playing, and expresses the same right on the spot. Then again, I suppose it's like an Amen in Church. It might seem strange to some.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
:Badump: Updated with 3 new pieces from my senior concert at the top.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:I mentioned my upcoming concert and she said, "oh I'd like to go, what are you having played?" I said: "A string quartet and some electronic music." She said, "well I don't like that type of music myself." I was amazed, as I tend to be, by the ignorance, but also the assumption that she had any real idea what type of music it was. I imagine being told by someone that they had built a statue out of wood, and me saying: "well I'm not into wood statues," without knowing what the subject matter was, just that the substance used was wood.
So this should be a lesson to you-- when you say "electronic music" to anyone outside of your music program, it means "electronica," which means either dance music, or 80's synth rock.
And "string quartet" means "classical music."
At some point, I hope you realize that just because people don't speak the same language as you, they're not ignorant. What's warranted is not your amazement or condescension, but for you to consider changing the language you use to describe your interests so that they can appreciate them for what they actually are.
I've come around to this way of thinking myself, recently. I write speculative fiction-- which is a term that the general public (i.e., non-genre reading masses) is not familiar with. So when I mention that I'm a writer, I no longer say "I write speculative fiction," because I've come to realize most people don't know what that means. I say, "I write science fiction and fantasy."
(For those of you reading, and remembering, this is a change from my earlier stance.)
Most people use the term science fiction to describe material I write; when I'm communicating with them, since I'm in the linguistical minority, and happen to be bilingual, it behooves me to use their language so we can understand one another.
And they can buy my books.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
You know, I'm not actually interested in a lecture at this point. You've said this before, and I've heard it before.
If you think that my interactions are typically like this, they aren't actually. But composers occasionally get strangely vociferous and opinionated and highly political reactions to the mere mention of the types of music we make. I'm really not interested in doing a lifetime of hand holding. The woman who cuts my hair at supercuts also gnaws my ear about how universities should teach pop music theory... and I am never really given a chance to tell her that a) they can and do, and b) it's not a very big subject because it's too simple.
I'd sound more condescending than you think I am if I actually did try and explain these things to people irl. They don't like it very much. My other option is to shut up and take it, and that's normally what I end up doing. Hence, lecture unnecessary.
In that particular case with electronic music, the woman vehemently waved off any and all of my attempts to explain that this wasn't beep-beep-boop-boop-boop-bop-bop electronica. Se insisted that she just didn't like that type of music. I mean, the really weird thing to me was that she made no pretense of her disapproval, even though she had been the one who asked ME about what kind of music I did.
Edit: And Scott, if you think I seek out these interactions, I don't. Living in such an intensely collegiate town, cursory and sometimes probing questions about your education are unavoidable. Sometimes I just say English is my major, but it always feels like lying because it makes me feel as if I look like a totally different kind of student than I am. The custom is at least two follow up questions, and a career question, and if I don't make full disclosure at the beginning, I really will be lying after a minute or two. So maybe I'm ultimately frustrated with the prying from the community into students' business, so that we never get left alone- that, and the very strong reactions that any mention of studying music can elicit.
I have an idea Scott. I suggest that you try this, just as an experiment. Tell people you are a composer. The fascinating kaleidescope of reactions, which are at once: mystification, interest, boredom, deep conviction, respect, and anger, are never exactly predictable. One thing they are is often unpleasant, so I really don't bring it up irl. I don't even want to bring it up here anymore, except in my little oasis of a thread, where I would like to keep talking about what I do.
[ June 13, 2008, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: Orincoro ]
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: You know, I'm not actually interested in a lecture at this point.
You must be new here.
Dude, you get your hair cut at Supercuts? Is this why all of the music nerds I've ever met have terrible hair?
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
I sang a solo at our graduation--you know, the cheesy graduation song...I didn't expect my parents to be balling. It's definitely a weird feeling.
So congrats on the senior recital, Lloyd. I'm sure it was better than many of the student composer's concerts I've been to
I sat with one of the "funnier" professors at one of them once. She criticized just about every piece the guy wrote--no originality at all--neo-romantic, neo-classical pieces that all "sounded like" (Chopin, Debussy, Bartok, etc.) I've listened to everything you've put up here, and I hope you keep composing even if you don't make a career out of it.
So how much do you have left before getting those stamped diplomas? Are you totally finished?
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Congratulations, Orincoro.
quote:Originally posted by Launchywiggin: I sang a solo at our graduation--you know, the cheesy graduation song...I didn't expect my parents to be balling.
*whisper I really, really think you want "bawling" there.
[Though, actually, that may well indeed be the more surprising reaction.]
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
quote:Originally posted by Primal Curve:
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: You know, I'm not actually interested in a lecture at this point.
You must be new here.
Dude, you get your hair cut at Supercuts? Is this why all of the music nerds I've ever met have terrible hair?
Hey!
Supercuts is fine, at least in my experience. Granted I have a simple hairstyle that you'd have to be a klutz to mess up significantly - heck, I even cut it myself sometimes - but I haven't seen anyone leaving the place with "terrible hair."
Terrible hair is most often a result of letting a family member cut it. Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
I occasionally get an awful haircut at supercuts, but most times it turns out just about the same as any place would do it.
I did get a cut yesterday at a nicer place before my commencement tomorrow, and it does make a difference if you're planning on spending 30 dollars instead of 14.
Posted by Bisbigliando (Member # 11646) on :
I feel your frustration Orincoro. I'm working towards my doctorate in music. When I tell people I specialize in classical saxophone, I get the same "ewww" expression. Our roles as ambassadors of contemporary art music are not always easy.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
And as you know, the reason we have terrible hair, as Primal points out, traces its roots back to a long stylistic, or anti-stylistic trend among music nerds who don't comb, style, or otherwise care about their hair. When you're playing music, bad hair is in fact a plus. It reminds you that you have more important concerns, and gives a realistic image of the self.
Posted by Bisbigliando (Member # 11646) on :
Family member haircuts are great. All you need are a bowl and a pair of scissors.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:So maybe I'm ultimately frustrated with the prying from the community into students' business, so that we never get left alone- that, and the very strong reactions that any mention of studying music can elicit.
In the first example you presented, I don't think anyone could reasonably define the woman's questions as "prying." Certainly not from the way you categorized all but the tail-end of the conversation. And that wasn't 'prying,' that was 'opining.'
And really, man, this is Hatrack. We don't do anything BUT lecture here.
quote:I mean, the really weird thing to me was that she made no pretense of her disapproval, even though she had been the one who asked ME about what kind of music I did.
So you've learned that curiosity doesn't lead to acceptance, right? It's a good lesson to learn.
I was flabbergasted at how many people would volunteer the opinion that my talents would be better used writing "for the Lord." And how vocal and public they would be about it. At a book signing.
So I get what you're saying, Orincoro. I've had parallel experiences.
quote:I'm really not interested in doing a lifetime of hand holding.
I suspect this is the difference between us, and is probably the instigator of our conflict. I look forward to teaching people about my genre. It's fine that you don't want to put yourself in this situation-- but I've got real problems with calling people who don't like X style "ignorant."
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
I think the ignorance as I was referring to it was one not of the specific style, but of... something for which I don't exactly have a word. Aesthetic appreciation in general? Art in general? What you can tell from the way I deal with valid criticism of my own work, I hope, is that I do engage as much as I can with people who show me that they are thinking interestingly about the work. I've reflected on what you said a while back about my electronic pieces, and that criticism effects the way I view that work, and other things I've worked on.
I think that's one of the best parts about studying music, that often times the abstract subject matter helps to clear the way for very concrete and clear analysis. Ironically, the vagueness of the forms involved allows people, and encourages them, to be very specific about the workings of a piece. It's not something that people get to do as much with, say, a short story, where plot and diction, and genre can get in the way. Music still has those elements, but they are free from their hieroglyphic connotations, ie: an F# is not associated with a particular image, language, history, or subject, but depends entirely upon musical context. I am probably in a very small minority of people who actually think that Theodore Adorno, despite his rather massive shortcomings as an elitist pigheaded fascist, made some really good points in this particular department.
I think you're right- ignorance of a specific issue is not, in itself, anything. Willful ignorance of obtuseness, or a lack of the ability to think constructively when one talks to people about things that one doesn't understand completely, is something I encounter too often, and something that compels me toward insider groups with people who are willing or able to understand my motivations. It's great when you can connect with people on different levels, but for the life of me, I am probably frustrated more often than I am rewarded.
Now, I've also had experience with the extreme ends of elitism and snobbery, and I can assure you, I am not that. There is a similar obtuseness in the thinking of many people whom I've studied with and interacted with in music, who completely fail to understand that their opinions or tastes are not equivalant to laws. And you would think from talking to these people, that they are not aware of having ever learned anything from anyone, except in their occasionally self-serving and patronizing nods to their own teachers, whom, you get a sense, only acted as stepping stones.
I am aware, however I may project myself, that I am constantly learning, and constantly unsure of whether I have ever learned enough. The really good teachers I've had have had ways of making this clear to me in a constructive way, and I've had one or two teachers who have been far less constructive.
What you might not know about me though Scott, is that at least in my particular program, I have garnered a reputation as being the most engaged in interdisciplinary thinking. I spend more time talking to people outside of the musical world about music than any other student I know, (such as I am doing now), and that creates problems for me, along with avenues of discovery that are important for me. Of the graduating students in my class, though there aren't that many, I am the only double major with two liberal arts degrees, and the only musicology student who has presented papers on aesthetics and aesthetic evolution, rather than musical sociology, pure mechanical theory, or history. Actually, my composition teacher, who I'm very close with, admonished me rather strongly this past quarter for my reliance on rationalization and literary contextualizing in my music, because he felt it was distracting me from mechanical deficiencies. He had a point.
[ June 14, 2008, 08:12 AM: Message edited by: Orincoro ]
Posted by Steev (Member # 6805) on :
By day I'm a software engineer. By night I'm a film composer.
I can relate with Orincoro's interdisciplinary situation a lot. It took me many years to sort out the frustrations inherent to the situation and still years getting over my injured self- esteem.
I have two sets of friends. Two worlds in which I live. One world that likes my art and the other world that is indifferent or hates it.
And yet the my art world friends still appreciate my skills as an engineer. But my engineer friends just don't get the art world at all.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
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thanks for listening
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