Here's the video presentation of the new units. It appears that with the loss of Aiur, the Protoss force is now dominated by Dark Templar influences, as portrayed in their units.
Personally, I think it all looks friggin' sweet. Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
indeed, I just hope that terrans dont keep getting shafted storywise. Also all the new units and abilities seem to really disfavour turtleing strategies in Starcraft 1, where even though a turtle could be cracked open turtling was at least moderately effective and could/can buy time. Especially in a 3v3 or 4v4.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
The Protoss have always been my favorite and their story the most interesting of the three.
I am saddened that the loss of the Homeworld, Aiur, has so shattered their civilization...and though the Dark Templar stuff is cool I would like to see the Conclave remade and the return in glory to Aiur.
But I fear that the Protoss, like the Elves, are on their way out...
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
The new units have silly names. "Warp Ray"? "Soul Hunter"? Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
The Protoss are laaaaame. Just like the Eldaaaar.
"We're elves! We're elves with guns! We walk on snow! We see real far! We're elves! We're elves with guns!"
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Tom, in what way are the Protoss "elves"?
I'll try and think of some myself.
1) There are "Dark Templar" which is sort of like their being "Dark Protoss". This is similar to how some fiction has "Dark Elves". This doesn't hold up very well under examination, however, since the "Dark Templar" are not evil, like most Dark Elves are portrayed.
2) They are "old" as a race.
3) Most Protoss live very long lives. Most elves live very long lives. (It is important to note, however, that 1000 years old is elderly for a Protoss, whereas elves are "immortal".)
I'd say that these similarities listed so far are largely trivial.
quote:We're elves! We're elves with guns! We walk on snow! We see real far! We're elves! We're elves with guns!"
No mention is ever made of them walking on snow, or seeing real far.
Care to enlighten me?
[ June 19, 2007, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: Xavier ]
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Does a presumably carefully controlled article in PC Gamer count as a leak nowadays?
Posted by 777 (Member # 9506) on :
I suppose not. But I believe this was released well before that particular issue of PC Gamer has been scheduled to be released.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Is a race too cool for school? Are there pointy things on the sides of their heads? Do they ramble on and on about "honor" and live for ages and clearly outshine, per unit, everybody else? Are they generally on the right side of any moral conflict, assuming they have all the data?
Then they're elves.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:Is a race too cool for school?
I have no idea what this means, much less how it applies to the Protoss.
quote:Are there pointy things on the sides of their heads?
They do live up to 1000 years. I addressed this above.
quote:and clearly outshine, per unit, everybody else?
Wait a minute, now we are mixing lore with gameplay. I also have no idea how having powerful units relates to being an elf. You seem to be saying that the Protoss and sort of like the Eldar (gameplay wise), and the Eldar are clearly elves, so therefor the Protoss are elves. Sort of an odd chain of reasoning, and one which I'm sure you can see the flaws of.
quote:Are they generally on the right side of any moral conflict, assuming they have all the data?
This appears to be another stretch. The introduction to the Protoss is them obliterating a human planet. They are doing this to stop the zerg from spreading, but the Protoss are in no way high and lofty with their morals.
In fact, the campaigns of Starcraft reveal a civil war amongst the Protoss race (one which the player takes part in).
I've gotta ask, Tom, did you even play Starcraft?
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
Nah, Tom's right. The Protoss are elves. They've got the "we're so old, we're waaaaaay wiser than YOU" attitude, the refusal to use contractions, and the control of mystical space energy/ magic that nobody else does. Just look at those particle effects!
Also, Praetor Fenix is clearly Legolas reincarnated. With just a hint of Worf.
Also, also, Xavier- you seem to be taking this awfully personally. Take a deep breath, man. Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Xavier: While I agree the protoss are not simply elves in space, they DO share some similarities worth mentioning.
Are they too cool for school means they are stand offish in an elitist sort of way. The Protoss think of themselves as the guardian nurture race of all the "lesser" species. So that is pretty elvaan. But yes they did revolt against their own creators and try to kill them all so not very elvaan.
"Are there pointy things on the sides of their heads?" No, definately no pointy ears. But then again almost EVERY race in WOW has pointy ears.
"Do they ramble on and on about "honor." I'm going to have to give this one to Tom. Every protoss unit says stuff like, "For Honor!" "My Life for Aeir!"
"and live for ages" they do live MUCH longer then your typical organism. Maybe not so much as elves but its along the same lines.
"and clearly outshine, per unit, everybody else?" The elvan units in just about any game are always super polished and VERY efficient. Protoss units are far and away the most COOL looking. Terran units are extremely industrial looking, and Zerg units look like organic vomit. This has nothing to do with how well they perform in actual combat, but the Protoss are certainly portrayed as far more powerful then the other two races.
"Are they generally on the right side of any moral conflict, assuming they have all the data?" Your points about this were good, but remember the protoss are still in large part the "benevolent protectors of the universe." Yes there is desent and changes in policy but as a race this is a traditional role they have played.
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
quote:Zerg units look like organic vomit.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote: Also, also, Xavier- you seem to be taking this awfully personally. Take a deep breath, man. [Smile]
Trust me, this isn't even a blip on my radar . Arguing about a ridiculous topic on the internet is fun, and it doesn't actually upset me in any real way (as I hope it doesn't for others).
I think the participants in these types of debates take it as a given that nobody actually cares about the topic in any deep way.
Edit:
Now that that is out of the way, and we can go back to our silly argument...
I think Tom's list for elvish classification fits the Klingons more than it fits the Protoss.
1) Think they are better than everyone. Winner: Tied
2) Pointy things on side of head. Winner: Klingons (they have ears!)
3) Ramble about honor Winner: Klingons
4) Live for ages Winner: Protoss
5) More powerful than other races Winner: Tied
6) On moral high ground Winner: Protoss? Could be tied.
(of course, if you made this list for the Vulcans, they'd win every category, cause they actually are elves in space )
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Sorry Xavier, I have to agree with Tom. The Protoss are Elves. But I consider that a compliment as no one is as awesome as the Elves!
Protoss, Zerg, and Terran are curiously similar to the Warhammer (which was an old role playing game and now PC game too) races: the Protoss being the same as the Eldar from Warhammer, and the Eldar are just like the Elves...and hell even use the Quenya name of the Elves!
Ways in which the Protoss are like the Elves:
-An ancient race, the Firstborn of the Gods. -Rebelled against the Gods. -Created their own nations, civil war, and finally peace under a central government. -Fought with the ultimate Evil and nearly perished in the process. -A dying civilization, but still light years ahead of any other race.
-Everything Tom said before.
Anyway, StarCraft is way better than Warhammer imho. Long live the Protoss! For Aiur!
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Vulcans are elves. Klingons are orcs.
Posted by 777 (Member # 9506) on :
quote:Zerg units look like organic vomit.
Is there such a thing as inorganic vomit?
As for the Elf/Protoss debate: It is interesting to note that the voice of Artanis is probably played by the same guy who did the Elven Archer voice in Warcraft II. I say probably, as I haven't played Warcraft II in a long time.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Considering that Artanis is the High Elven name of Galadriel... Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
The key distinction is this, to put it crudely: the "elves" are whatever race the primary authors masturbate to. In any setting, the "elves" are the race that get the "kewl powerz" whenever it's convenient, the ones that spontaneously manifest the inner eyelids and psychic bonds and mystic links to nature (tm) and whatever else is officially "nifty." This race tends to be ancient, stuffy, dying out, and full of angst.
They are the Supreme Emo Kidz, the ones who get to make the sparklies.
Sometimes, as happened with Star Trek, the official "elf baton" may change hands. For a little while following some truly exceptional Next Generation episodes, Klingons were the new Vulcans (who were the "elves.") You could tell because Worf got a fully functional backup spine that no one had ever known about before.
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
But the Klingons are characterized primarily by their savagery and strong emotions. That's fundamentally opposed to the worldview of the elves/Vulcans/Protoss, which all value stoicism. As Tom notes, the only emotions any of them are allowed to express is condescension toward the "lesser beings" and a general sense of universe-ennui. Very different from the snarling passion of the Klingons.
I mean, would Q ever ask a Protoss, "Eaten any good books lately?" Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
I wasn't saying that the Klingons are elves. I was saying that they fit the classification criteria Tom listed nearly as well as the Protoss do.
Edit:
By the way, I was a Terran player who felt that the Protoss were boring .
[ June 19, 2007, 02:49 PM: Message edited by: Xavier ]
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
No, but you were saying that the Klingons are the Protoss, and I was responding to that.
If the Klingons align to any Tolkienesque fantasy race, they're clearly the dwarves, down to the stocky beardedness and obsession with bulky bladed weapons.
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
The ultimate test of whether or not the Protoss are the elves? Whether or not a principle character in the next game is half-protoss/half-human. That'll cinch it.
And you may ask why. It ties in with Tom's point about the, ahem, Onanistic properties of the elven character set. The author of the game gets to envision either 1) getting to be the nifty bastard child all angsty at being an outcast among the Protoss and Humans but still having all the neato powers (and tossing in some stuff about being better because Humans are better at adaptation or something) or 2) getting to fantasize about boinking some hottie protoss female and being the father of the bastard child.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:No, but you were saying that the Klingons are the Protoss, and I was responding to that.
Perhaps you can point out where I did that?
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:The ultimate test of whether or not the Protoss are the elves? Whether or not a principle character in the next game is half-protoss/half-human. That'll cinch it.
And you may ask why. It ties in with Tom's point about the, ahem, Onanistic properties of the elven character set. The author of the game gets to envision either 1) getting to be the nifty bastard child all angsty at being an outcast among the Protoss and Humans but still having all the neato powers (and tossing in some stuff about being better because Humans are better at adaptation or something) or 2) getting to fantasize about boinking some hottie protoss female and being the father of the bastard child.
I seriously doubt there will be. The very idea of a Protoss "hottie" is kind of odd to me.
In fact, there is only ONE Protoss female in the entire games, and she is 1000 years old, and quite unattractive.
I think that alone should clinch that they are not elves.
Elves, almost by definition, have to be attractive. You can't get much uglier than the Protoss:
quote:Protoss are about three meters tall and have two luminous eyes, digitigrade legs, four digits on each of their hands (of which two are opposable) and toes, broad chests and shoulders, and narrow waists with slim midsections. Their skin is smooth and becomes rough and cracked with age. Extending back from the crown of the head, Protoss have a bony crest. Otherwise the head of a Protoss may be subtly different varying on which tribe they are descended from. Their eyes are typically blue, yellow, orange or red, with the latter two colors more common (but not exclusive) for Dark Templar. As only one female Protoss is seen, and not in detail, the physical differences (if any) between males and females are unknown, as are the Protoss reproductive systems.
Protoss do not have any visible noses, ears, or mouths.
From the wikipedia article.
Of course, with what the current Blizzard folks did to the Draenei (making their females attractive), I suppose I shouldn't put it past them .
[ June 19, 2007, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: Xavier ]
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
someone pass the duct tape.
Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
quote:Originally posted by 777:
quote:Zerg units look like organic vomit.
Is there such a thing as inorganic vomit?
Yes. It's not pretty.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by 777:
quote:Zerg units look like organic vomit.
Is there such a thing as inorganic vomit?
As for the Elf/Protoss debate: It is interesting to note that the voice of Artanis is probably played by the same guy who did the Elven Archer voice in Warcraft II. I say probably, as I haven't played Warcraft II in a long time.
Yes, that is all.
*Eats a pen*
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
quote:Originally posted by Xavier: In fact, there is only ONE Protoss female in the entire games, and she is 1000 years old, and quite unattractive.
I think that alone should clinch that they are not elves.
Elves, almost by definition, have to be attractive. You can't get much uglier than the Protoss:
Oh sure, they're ugly now, but I wouldn't put it past the writers to suddenly make the Protoss the fathers of mankind or something who just happen to choose to wear some kind of semi-organic body armor and really be a bunch of elven hotties underneath.
Seriously. You think it's stupid, but look at video game stories. They're rife with this kind of stupid crap and none of it would surprise me.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote: Seriously. You think it's stupid, but look at video game stories. They're rife with this kind of stupid crap and none of it would surprise me.
Yeah, like I mentioned, you don't even have to look beyond Blizzard for examples.
Yes, isn't it convenient?
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:Blizzard released the story that the Draeni have a couple of some splinter groups that have devolved.
Which is because they didn't want the alliance to have an "ugly race".
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
which is why I only play a blood elf on hoard, i like pretty races. I would play elf on alliance but they lack any elf wizards on it.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
The blood elves are the worst thing that ever happened to the Horde.
Didn't need elves, and we certainly didn't need Pallies. :shudder:
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
I play an Orc. I also sometimes play Troll alts.
Ugly races for the win!
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:They are the Supreme Emo Kidz, the ones who get to make the sparklies.
Oh, if only we had sigs here.
Oh, and Tom's right.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Xavier:
quote:Blizzard released the story that the Draeni have a couple of some splinter groups that have devolved.
Which is because they didn't want the alliance to have an "ugly race".
Ummm....did you see the gnomes? Holy.....crap....*closes eyes*
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver: Considering that Artanis is the High Elven name of Galadriel...
Not a very flattering name for the Protoss Artanis, considering what it means in High Elven.
My only complaint is that thus far, all the goodies are going to the Protoss. No love for the Terrans and Zerg? Much as I love the Protoss, I'd love to see the expansion spread to ALL the races, hell, maybe even create a fourth race, that'd be cool and new, rather than just updating everything for the second go around. I hope the new story is good.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Mmmmm... Protoss Mothership... home to the new Conclave perhaps?
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
I wouldn't be surprized if we find ourselves battling on Earth too... I'm sure the UED will come back in the picture.
As for the Protoss rebuilding it would be very difficult, as Aiur was the heart of not only their resourses but the core of their Psionic Matrix from which they powered all their technology and shields. I imagine they set up a new Psionic Matrix on Shakuras of course, but with their population so low now...who knows?
But at the same time, the two sides of their race are reunited, Dark and High Templar. And now that the mainstream of the Protoss, due to the war, are probably the same number as the Dark Templar the Protoss energies are balanced...and it was only that balancing of energies that allowed the destruction of the Overmind. So the Protoss that remain are probably a more powerful sort.
So in a way the Protoss were able to achieve what the Zerg were trying...and what the Xel'Naga before them as well...the combination of the Purity of Form and the Purity of Essance. Except the Protoss did it in the Mind, not the body.
But as we discovered in Brood War not all the Xel'Naga are dead, and they were attempting a Protoss/Zerg hybrid, similar to what the Overmind was attempting. This is of course the Overmind had within it the desires of the Xel'Naga in some form.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:Ummm....did you see the gnomes? Holy.....crap....*closes eyes*
The gnome women are adorable.
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
Personally, I think trolls (male and female) are the sexiest horde race by far. Draenei males win on the alliance side. Face tentacles are hot.
And on topic...
I do agree with Tom to a certain extent. But as much as I loathe Elves, I have always liked Protoss. I think it's because, as has been mentioned, they aren't as "pretty" as elves. They have a bit of Klingon too them. And their sworn enemies, the Zerg, are not nearly as lovable as orcs and goblins.
In fact, it's almost impossible for me to actually enjoy playing as the zerg. They have no redeeming qualities. At the end of Brood War, when Kerrigan was faced with a ragtag alliance, the remnants of all the groups she had betrayed and slaughtered, a chill ran down my spine. It took me a month before I could actually stand to play that level... I too desperately wanted to be on the other side. I wanted to help Mengsk and Artanis and the UED wipe that horrible, obnoxious, loathesome bitch off the face of the galaxy.
Instead, Blizzard handed her the win.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
I have to admit, I'm a zerg lover. I also played the undead in WC3.
I just love the creepy factor.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: The key distinction is this, to put it crudely: the "elves" are whatever race the primary authors masturbate to.
While I more or less agree with your point, the only obvious fap material in SC is Kerrigan, which I guess would make both the Terrans and the Zerg "elves."
Infested Kerrigan attracts and repulses me simultaneously. Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Well, that's the dark genius of Starcraft: the Zerg are completely repulsive, but they gave them teh boobs. That's why the "story" really boils down to Zerg vs. Protoss, with the Earthlings as occasional wrenches in various best-laid-plans: no Terran boobs. It also explains the Korean market: you get to play not only as the babe, but ALSO as the tentacles!
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
Mmmmm... 256 colors of pre-rendered hotness.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
So, Tom, by your key distinction, then would Paladins be the "elves" of WoW? Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I honestly don't know enough about WoW to answer that question. I've stayed well away.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by twinky:
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: The key distinction is this, to put it crudely: the "elves" are whatever race the primary authors masturbate to.
While I more or less agree with your point, the only obvious fap material in SC is Kerrigan, which I guess would make both the Terrans and the Zerg "elves."
Infested Kerrigan attracts and repulses me simultaneously.
There is a positively haunting fan painting of her that just recently got linked on the WOW forums, I'll link it later. It is currently my background, you can see the crustyness and moistness to Kerrigans face. It's pretty awesome yet revolting at the same time.
Fortunately as you will note in the picture, Kerrigan's human side lives on in her need to wear SOME makeup and lipstick.
quote:I honestly don't know enough about WoW to answer that question. I've stayed well away.
You are a wise man.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
I can't view that page from work (i.e. I'm not even going to try), but if it's the shot of her reclining in the creep I've seen it, and agree that it's quite something.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by twinky: I can't view that page from work (i.e. I'm not even going to try), but if it's the shot of her reclining in the creep I've seen it, and agree that it's quite something.
Nope different picture. Its just her portrait with her off to the side.
edit: I don't think I've seen the reclining creep one, care to link it?
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Not from work, no. It isn't NSFW, but it's a little racy.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by twinky: Not from work, no. It isn't NSFW, but it's a little racy.
oh... Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
can u email it to us?
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Dude, I'm at work. I don't want to look for the image because then I'd view it. I'll post a link when I get home if I remember.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: Well, that's the dark genius of Starcraft: the Zerg are completely repulsive, but they gave them teh boobs. That's why the "story" really boils down to Zerg vs. Protoss, with the Earthlings as occasional wrenches in various best-laid-plans: no Terran boobs. It also explains the Korean market: you get to play not only as the babe, but ALSO as the tentacles!
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
I know everyone has probably seen these, but what the hell:
I just hope they avoid the arbitrary and artificial unit count limits of Warcraft III.
"Okay, you can't have more than this many units, M'kay? But, the guys you're fighting, they're considered three seperate forces, so they each can have that many units. No, no, they're seperate groups, they just all happen to be fighting you. Why, is that a problem?" <groan>
Don't inflict your problems with pushing polygon count on my strategy, Blizzard!
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: Vulcans are elves. Klingons are orcs.
On the latter, got it in one. Let's see... Brutal warriors, used to be bad guys, now we're supposed to consider them part of an honorable warrior tradition.... Yep.
Never mind Artrus trying and failing to use the One Ring- I mean, Frostmourne- for good...
Posted by Architraz Warden (Member # 4285) on :
Arthas, and he had longed since ceased having good intentions by the time he made it to Frostmourne.
And the Orcs (Warcraft and LotR) got their blood lust and urge to crush, kill, destroy, maim and other wise injure after being corrupted by an outside source.
And while elves were haughty enough to not really like other types of elves, did they ever resort to attempting to kill their gods and then proceeding to kill pretty much everything else like the Protoss did?
EDIT: Oh, and if there's a hybrid in SC II, it'll be the zerg / protoss hybrid. Also, Duran never explicitly stated who he was working for, just that he hinted that his master had made him more powerful than Kerrigan imagined. The Overmind was also very keen on the merging of the Zerg and Protoss at the very lest.
Posted by SoaPiNuReYe (Member # 9144) on :
Dude, the protoss are so lame. I just care about the zergs. I wanted to see some new zerg units when I heard about the leak.
Also a side note: The 1 warpgateway limit for Protoss is sort of lame too. I think they should raise it so that it is like 1 for the first 10 minutes and then 2 afterwards, because lategame that could put Protoss at a disadvantage. Just speculating however.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Do you mean the Protoss mothership? Dude, it has a Black hole, a time dilation field, and the ability to pulverize anything under it. One is enough.
I Already see Turtle tactics becomming obselete the Terrans as they are now will not stand a chance, it'll take more then a reaper and a fancy armband on their marines to hold the fort.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Architraz Warden: Arthas, and he had longed since ceased having good intentions by the time he made it to Frostmourne.
And the Orcs (Warcraft and LotR) got their blood lust and urge to crush, kill, destroy, maim and other wise injure after being corrupted by an outside source.
Extremely debatable, and makes neither any less cliched or predictable.
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It isn't NSFW, but it's a little racy.