quote:

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Okay is PvP in WoW really that bad?

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I'm pretty sure the thread title is pretty clear what I am trying to ask.
 

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Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
 
Blayne. Think, post. Check your grammar at least once before submitting. That includes punctuation and capitalization, as well as checking for proper spelling (here Firefox is your friend; it will underline misspelled words).

-Bok
 

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Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
 
But why should we answer you? Also, your thoughts on [EDIT See? everyone makes mistakes, but most of us try and correct them: were->where] where you stand currently can create a structure within which to answer.

For instance, if I answered the question simply, "Yes, it is that bad." Would that really help you?

-Bok
 

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Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
 
Blayne,
Bok just gave you some very good advice. You'd do well to actually go back and edit your initial post to conform with it. That would take you out of LOOK AT ME!! blog posting to a less juvenile and more respectful attempt to start a conversation.

Also, sweet Jebus kid, do you really not see how your attempts at insults and responses make you sound like a very young teenager? You only have a little bit of time left where you can get away with the way you do things before it is really going to hurt you.
 

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Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
I see.

Well I was trying to ask as BB answered is PvP as bad as my friend exaggerated, and how so or if it isn't that bad how can one expect it and to what degree is it annoying?

Is that better?
 

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Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
 
Blayne,
Could you explain the problems that your friend mentioned concerning PvP and why you think they are exaggerations? Perferably in real English sentences.
 

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Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Look Squicky the problem I have here is that you made no attempt at constructive criticism, Bokomon did an excellent job, but by you just walking in all snarky just leaves me going "wtf", confused and insulted, what did you expect?
 

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Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
 
Yes, not perfect (are any of us?) but better.

How frequent would ganking have to be before it was unsuitable for you to stay and have fun on a PvP server. If faced with repeated ganking, would you join a guild for protection, would you take them as object lessons in how to play the PvP game, or would you just leave?

PvP ganking can be quite bad, but you can generally avoid the worst of it. A guild can be nice, as you can group up if necessary, or call in high level help, but doing that too often, unless you are good friends with guildies, will tend to annoy them and get you booted from the guild.

-Bok
 

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Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
 
What did I expect? You to act like a spoiled, self-centered little kid, which is what I got.

What do I hope? For you to someday conduct yourself like an adult.
 

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Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
 
Blayne, still a little too stream-of-consciousness in your last post. You should in the future make that into at least two, and as many as three, sentences. Some judiciously placed commas would be nice as well (though I am a profligate user of such punctuation, and am probably not one to advise you on that ).

-Bok

[EDIT: Oh, Irony! I modified my use of commas. I suppose I should follow my advise for you more closely myself!]
 

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Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
Squick: Blayne's original post wasn't out of line *this* time. He didn't deserve your sarcastic retort.... This time.

Blayne: You're response to Squick was childish.

But to answer your original question... Yeah, there are goobers who will gank lvl 20ish people on PVP servers just to feel studly. Before lvl 20, you can level just fine in non-contested territory where you are safe until you flag.

So after level 20, try to find a secluded place to level. Instances are good and have good loot but you can't solo them.
 

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Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
 
Pix,
I think you may have only seen the edited version. The initial version was a leet speak chat transcript, with "Is it?" posted after it, which was, in my judgement, very much out of line.
 

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Posted by JennaDean (Member # 8816) on :
 

quote:

---

Squick: Blayne's original post wasn't out of line *this* time. He didn't deserve your sarcastic retort.... This time.

---

quote:

---

Well I was trying to ask as BB answered is PvP as bad as my friend exaggerated, and how so or if it isn't that bad how can one expect it and to what degree is it annoying?

Is that better?

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Is a vast improvement.
 

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Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
 

quote:

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It was bloggish because it was a self-centered plea for attention not a respectful attempt to communicate with people.

---

quote:

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My bad for expecting you to act with class.

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quote:

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Scott,
You owe me an apology.

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Everyone's got to have a dream. I encourage you to set your sights a leeeetle higher.
 

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Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
 
Then why enter a thread that is titled "Is the Player Versus Player Environment in WoW as bad as my friend says it is?"

You either:

a) came into the thread out of an intest in PvP in WoW,
b) came into the thread because it was started by Blayne, or
c) came into the thread because you read every new thread on hatrack.

If the first, you've abandoned that interest. If the second, your intentions are questionable. If the last, there was still no need for you to respond the way you did.

Upon seeing Blayne's first post, you could have:

a) ignored it and not posted,
c) posted constructively, or
d) posted destructively.

You chose to post destructively. And now, you claim the role of the victim and seem to be grasping at the same attention you accused Blayne of seeking.
 

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Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
 
I did see the first post, by the way, in its unedited...erm...glory.

And I saw your snarkiness following.

My criticism of your response stands.
 

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Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
 
Tell your friend he's a PvP noob and needs to learn to play.
 

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Posted by Sharpie (Member # 482) on :
 
I play on a PvP server, and I don't find it that bad. There will always be jerks. I'm pretty polite and I don't freak out when I see an ally -- I don't dash away or otherwise act alarmed, and for hte most part I get left alone. I have characters of all levels, and that's my experience.

Now, for some reason, Friday and Saturday nights tend to be worse. Also, certain areas are worse than others. Tarren Mill, for example :-).

If you're in an okay guild, sometimes your fellow guild members will come help you out if you're being camped.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't ever consider a non-PvP server, and it's not because I enjoy the PvP side so much -- but it does add SOMETHING. Adrenaline, etc.
 

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Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
 
FC,

quote:

---

You chose to post destructively. And now, you claim the role of the victim and seem to be grasping at the same attention you accused Blayne of seeking.

---

quote:

---

It does not appear to me you understand what my intentions are here.

---

I don't judge anything you've said in this thread as conducive to an atmosphere of respect or intelligence.
 

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Posted by Vadon (Member # 4561) on :
 
I think PVP servers are great. Like Sharpie said, it does have an element of more adrenaline. And if you're worried about being ganked all the time, don't be. The beauty of the PVP server is that other people can kill the 'ganker'. Just talk on the Local Defense Channel, say you're being killed and could use some assistance, and a flood of high level characters will come to your aid. Then you get the pleasure of watching your attacker run away screaming. I'd recommend going for the PVP server.

In regards to the whole... quality of posts... bit. While I don't think that posting an instant messaging transcript warrants a new topic, I don't think that such a topic warrants harsh attacks and criticism either. Now, I can't find the terms of service, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't have a rule about the quality of a topic, only content. And I doubt Blayne's topic had inappropriate material. But I am pretty sure there's stuff about attacking a fellow member of the forum. May I just suggest that MrSquicky sit in a corner to think about his sarcastic post and why it wasn't justified, and also have Blayne sit in a corner to think about not attacking him for the sarcastic post?
 

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Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
 
I was not making assumptions.

Your first post was an attack. You ignored the content of Blayne's post, posted random comments in mock imitation, then ended with a mocking plea for attention.

In your second post you continued the attack, calling Blayne pathetic and saying he was acting like a 12 year old.

I see nothing constructive in those first two posts, and you obviously didn't ignore the thread and move on. You chose to be destructive.

In your third post, a half an hour later, you finally offer something constructive - after Bokonon had already addressed the problem in a calmer, more mature way - but then revert to calling Blayne a "spoiled, self-centered little kid" only two posts later.

Then, after Scott says your first post was out of line, you start looking for him to apologize to you (playing the victim - "I was wronged, so you must apologize") and then tell him he has no class (picking a fight with a second poster within a single thread, making the thread about you instead of Blayne or his question).

As for not understanding what your intentions are, I am at the mercy of your words to direct me. Try reading your words from the perspective of someone who doesn't know what you're actually thinking - you come off as very harsh.
 

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Posted by BandoCommando (Member # 7746) on :
 
Um. It wouldn't take long to create a new toon on a PvP server and see what happens. Just sayin.
 

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Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
I generally don't like spamming characters my experience in everquest taught me that creating dozens of characters and only having 2 break out of the newbie level bracket I avoid making new characters. However if some friends go to make new characters I won't mind making a new one to level up at the same pace as they do.
 

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Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
 
To address the original question: it really depends on what server you're playing on. On the really old, really crowded PvP servers, ganking can be a huge issue in the popular zones purely because there are so many people running around. On other servers, though, ganking is fairly minimal (except in the one or two obviously PvP heavy zones, e.g. hillsbrad). This is easy to avoid by picking places to grind where you don't have to worry about as many people.

It's also usually not a big deal because these days, most people are concerned with leveling as quickly as possible, and world PvP just doesn't provide sufficient rewards to be worth most people's time. The biggest problem are 70 gankers wandering lowbie contested zones, but there are usually 70s from both sides there, and a quick shout in Local Defense will bring your own side's goons into the fray.
 

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Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
 
If you can't stand being ganked, don't play on a PvP server. If you want some world PvP, and ganking is just annoying, join a good PvP oriented guild, and get at least 2 different characters, either on the same server, or on different servers. That way, if you're attacked and can't fight back, you can ask your guild for help, or you can play another character for a while.

Besides, without a good guild, you will miss out on 1/3 of the content, as you'll have a very difficult time doing many of the dungeons.
 

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Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
 
general advice to make playing on a PVP server more bearable:

1) Be willing to relocate if someone is being a problem.
2) Be willing to switch to another character for a while until the bully goes away.
3) Get lots of friends and come back to counter-gank him
4) Get one character to high level and log him out near where your lowbie is levelling. When that lvl 60 guy who never bought the expansion starts getting schooled by your lvl 70 alt he'll probably leave you alone shortly.
5) Understand that if someone has been friendly for 1 hr it doesn't mean that they will be forever. perhaps they were just feeling very peaceful this time and won't be next time. perhaps they'll forget your name and think you are a trouble maker next time. perhaps their bloodthirsty guild-mate will show up and they'll feel honor-bound to help him out.
6) in general if you leave people alone and don't attack them or steal their mobs/quest items then they'll leave you alone.

in general: you will run into complete jerks at least occasionally, and sometimes more often. other times you'll run into "enemies" who actually are quite civil, may help you out etc.
 

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Posted by Sharpie (Member # 482) on :
 
Also... play Horde.
 

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Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
 
horde is better, but I find that alliance tends to have more of the immature @$$holes that tend to be a problem (but maybe that was just my server)
 

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Posted by Sharpie (Member # 482) on :
 
No, that's true on the server I'm on too (Gurubashi).
 

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Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
 
You know, this is the first time I've heard the term "gank"... At least in this context anyway...
 

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Posted by Fitz (Member # 4803) on :
 
In my experience, neither faction has more prick gankers than the other. That being said, one of my favorite things about WoW was getting up to level 60 (I quit before the expansion) and doing some serious lowbie ganking. I know a lot of people harshly criticize lowbie gankers, but on a pvp server you really have to expect that you're going to get ganked mercilessly while you're leveling. If you don't like being ganked, ganking, or gankers in general, play on a normal or RP server.

Also, one of the coolest things about ganking is that it can lead to epic pvp battles on world maps. I gank a lowbie mercilessly, he calls his buddies, who come in force with greater numbers and kill me, whereupon I call in reinforcements, etc. Good times to be had by all.
 

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Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
 
I've played horde and alliance pretty far in, and ultimately, I think the level of maturity you get is pretty much equal on both sides.

I play on a "normal" server for the most part and enjoy it immensely. You can avoid PvP if you're not interested in it (which I'm not) and battleground or arena if you are. Best of both worlds!
 

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Posted by Sharpie (Member # 482) on :
 
"Also, one of the coolest things about ganking is that it can lead to epic pvp battles on world maps. I gank a lowbie mercilessly, he calls his buddies, who come in force with greater numbers and kill me, whereupon I call in reinforcements, etc. Good times to be had by all."

Yeah, I like this, too.
 

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Posted by Epictetus (Member # 6235) on :
 
I've really enjoyed pvp servers. Being camped by level 70s who have nothing better to do is very, very annoying. When it does happen, my advice is to walk away from the computer, make a sandwich, watch an episode of something on TV and then come back to it. After about twenty minutes whoever is camping you will get bored and move on.
 

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Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
Blayne,

OK, look, at some point you're just going to have to embrace the idea that a certain posting style, a certain style of communication, is going to draw negative responses.

You can either decide to change your style and thus head off the negative response, or you can stick with the same style and drawing the negative responses, and then b@#%^ing about the responses.

I know which would cause me less frustration and take less effort.

----------------------

quote:

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I asketh of those more experienced in World of Warcraft is the ganking of newbies that bad and how so?

---

First of all, let me just say I recommend you not play World of Warcraft, unless you're going to do so in a social setting. It's just an impression to me, but I get the feeling that you're the sort who would get sucked into a computer game. Call it empathy, because I have that tendancy too. There are many better things you could be doing with your time.

Or, if you're going to play...do what I did. Go to a gaming shop, and play with a bunch of people in the same room. I've played MMORPGs both ways, and the second is a lot more fun. Like, enormously more fun-both in terms of the playing experience, and in the social benefits you get just by having friends you can actually see.

-----------------
Thus ends the unsolicited advice portion of my post to you.
-----------------
I played WoW for...hmm, somewhere between a year and a half and two years, I believe? I don't remember exactly. I don't play anymore, but I had two L60 characters on both Horde and Alliance, both in PvP servers, and a few 30+ on the same servers. Really, if the game hadn't had PvP, and especially PvP servers, I probably wouldn't have played nearly as long. It was a lot of fun for me, and I ended up delaying my leveling in the game for quite awhile because I would specifically go hunting-not attacking grays, though. Always competitive(if sometimes unfair) fights. At least half of my playtime was spent focusing on finding PvP situations, and this was BEFORE Battlegrounds.

To answer your question about how often a newbie will be ganked...there are quite a few variables involved. Which faction are you playing for? What zones are you playing in? What server are you on? What times do you play? No matter how good the circumstances to these questions are, though, you can expect to be ganked and have your play interrupted when you're in a PvP territory at least once every two hours, just as an estimate.

Depending on where you play, it could be a lot, lot worse. For instance, stay the hell out of the Hillsbrad Foothills if you're Horde.

Grouping more often will be very helpful. Pulling back the camera view will do nicely too. Put your back to solid objects whenever you can. Make a habit of scrolling the view around to look in all directions. If you see an enemy, keep an eye on them.

If you see someone who is much higher level than you, it would pay to wave to them or possibly to bow, but most especially don't antagonize. If you see an enemy who is gray to you, don't attack them. It's pretty rude, pretty pointless (killing grays is easy), and that kind of thing establishes a reputation which can easily bite you in the ass. It's very easy for a gray to drop a dime on you, if you know what I mean.

A rule of thumb is in order if you want to play on a PvP server, Blayne: if you're not willing to risk having your playtime interrupted or even totally ruined every now and then by unexpected and unfair PvP combat, you shouldn't play on a PvP server. Especially since you're literally paying for it, both in time and in money. If you find that's happening to you, suck it up and fight back if possible, or just leave the area and advance elsewhere. At all stages of the game, even at higher levels, there is always at least one other place you can go to play.
 

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Posted by Sharpie (Member # 482) on :
 
I would also add that blood elves (horde) (particularly paladins) and draenei (alliance) (particularly shamans) SEEM to get ganked more often. At least it feels that way to me. This may be dying down now. At first it was a little ridiculous.

Rakeesh's rule of thumb is dead on -- his whole last paragraph. And yeah, waving does help; I'd estimate it will lower your chance of being attacked by fellow questers/grinders by about 30-40 percent. It lets them know your intention is to quest/grind.

It's etiquette.

(P.S. I don't post a ton, but I do notice things, and I HAVE noticed that you (Blayne) have modified your posting style considerably since you started here, in response to requests by other forum members, and I appreciate it; I also find a lot of your subjects interesting and fun - like this one )
 

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Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
 
Hell, I played Horde and wished I could have ganked blood elf paladins.
 

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Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by FlyingCow:
Hell, I played Horde and wished I could have ganked blood elf paladins.

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My wife rolled a BE paladin and got her to 45. Then she just promptly stop playing her for reasons even she can't state.

In other news I am a beast master hunter right now and I take joy in whittling down a pally's health and popping intimidation just before they will likely bubble and clearing the last 1/4th of their health within those last 3 seconds.
 

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Posted by Sharpie (Member # 482) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by FlyingCow:
Hell, I played Horde and wished I could have ganked blood elf paladins.

---

 

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Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
I have a lvl 17 BE pally. My hubby keeps asking me to play her because she's hot.
 

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Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by The Pixiest:
I have a lvl 17 BE pally. My hubby keeps asking me to play her because she's hot.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by FlyingCow:
I'm curious what the gank-factor is for different class/race combos.

I'd say leading the list would have to be Blood Elf Pallies and Night Elf Hunters. Leading the list of those *doing* the ganking would have to be Night Elf Rogues and Undead Rogues.

---

Then you are clearly talking about ATTEMPTED gankings, not successful ones.

Any NE hunter worth his salt has no problem shacking off a rogue who sneaks up on him, assuming he is not already close to death.

Although the scales of balance have shifted alot what with the rogue crying and giving them several anti hunter abilities.
 

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Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
BlackBlade: I just went back to my old guild after leaving to go to a guild that progressed faster... After some drama I realized that there's no place like home.

Anyway, after a month away I have to do some re-bonding with them.

Are you 70 on Venture Company? Cuz I think my chars there are low 20s...
 

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Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
 
I'm not talking about fair matchups, BlackBlade. I'm talking about true ganking, i.e. lvl 60 vs. lvl 20 or somesuch.

I'd say BE Pallies and NE Hunters get more than their fair share. Thinking about it, I bet Undead rogues get more than their fair share, too.
 

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Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
I can tell you that a Forsaken engineering rogue gets ganked less than a human blacksmithing Paladin, that's for sure Although *attempts* to gank were higher...

I would cross a busy street when I was running late to bag a Paladin (again, not if they were gray). They were usually quite fun. Forcing them to burn through their get-out-of-jail-free spells was great, and when they got high enough level to force them to bubble-hearth? Awesomeness.
 

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Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
 
This is true. In PvP environments, my most satisfying kills were always:

1. NE Rogue
2. Human Pally
3. NE Hunter

Playing with a pally, though, is like a cat playing with a mouse. It's great fun until it stops moving - then it's just dead.
 

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Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
 
I love being a human pally on a pve server. People try to taunt me into dueling or pvping. I wave and continue on my merry way. Not interested, but thanks!
 

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Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
BB which server you on and what lvl's maybe we can start new chars.
 

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Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
 
You can be BB buddies!
 

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Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
 
Man, you guys make me want to play again, and I refused to do that. =( I still have my sixty...seven? eight? orc hunter on Venture Co.
 

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Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
cmon itll be a blast you know you wanna play, start a new character well do quests, i dont like grinding.
 

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Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
 
Blayne: Make a character named LittleNikki. Erosomaniac won't be able to resist when he sees LittleNikki grind.
 

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Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
Stay strong, erosomniac! You can do it, I did!
 

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Posted by Flaming Toad on a Stick (Member # 9302) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Pixiest:
Blayne: Make a character named LittleNikki. Erosomaniac won't be able to resist when he sees LittleNikki grind.

---

[sidetrack] When I first heard this song (the Foo Fighters one, not the Prince one)I thought they were saying "cry" instead of "grind". For the life of me I couldn't figure out what that song was about. [/sidetrack]
 

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Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
*kills Rakeesh*

Don't listen to dead people, they give bad advice. Listen to me, play wow again, play it... play it....
 

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Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
I'm going to try and work on my warlock who is on Venture Co, he is either 19 or 29 I am pretty sure its the former.

It might be nice to just play for the sake of the game again, instead of worrying about raiding.

Maybe I'll transfer my 45 BE Pally to Venture Co. I'm not too sure.
 

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Posted by Sharpie (Member # 482) on :
 
I'm still interested in playing with hatrack folks, and I'm sure John would be, too. Maybe I'll make a new character over there today...

There's still a guild of sorts?
 

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Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
 
There's a guild (Dragon Army), but none of the officers still play, so you should probably make another one.
 

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Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
 
I managed to stop WoW last month (after I got my hunter to 70 and got really bored with the faction grinding) and I think I'm over it.

I'm really looking forward to Warhammer online. I think City of Heroes will keep me entertained until that comes along.

Maybe I'll start playing again for another couple months when the next expansion comes out.

[ June 30, 2007, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: MightyCow ]
 

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Posted by Sharpie (Member # 482) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by erosomniac:
There's a guild (Dragon Army), but none of the officers still play, so you should probably make another one.

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