So I've been accepted to the North Bennet Street School in Boston for piano technology program. I've lived in Southwest Virginia all my life--which is nice, rural mountain country. I've never lived, even for a little while, in anything like a city.
So I'm a little scared, daunted, but still excited. I have a few questions and I'd like to take any open advice from people who have lived in cities--and especially from people who've lived in both the city and the less hectic country.
My lease in Virginia ends Aug. 1, so I've been checking the boston craigslist every day for apartments. I'm really looking for a place with roommates so I can cut living costs in half. I'm a great guy to live with (I'm clean, quiet, friendly, and helpful around the place)--but the response I've gotten so far is that most people want to meet you before letting you come in as a roommate. My e-mails have been really friendly, but I've already lost 3 apartments that were just ideal for the school (which has no housing)--because I don't already live in Boston.
So what do you all think I can do? My ideal housing is in the North End (historic district), because that's where the school is. My budget is 1500 a month (plus whatever I make with a part-time job), so I'm hoping for a place that's less than 1000 bucks rent so I have money for food and bills.
I just really hope someone takes a chance and lets me move in without having to meet and see the place. I'm the kind of guy that can adapt to almost any situation, but this will definitely be new for me.
People have told me that city living is much more dangerous than country-living--but is this really true? It didn't seem like that when I was visiting last month. Any other advice will be highly appreciated
[ August 17, 2007, 12:11 AM: Message edited by: Launchywiggin ]
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Possible to do what you want if you move in with a roommate. I would try and contact your school to see if they have services to aid out-of-town students with housing.
You may just have to bite the bullet and make another trip up here to meet with people. Maybe a Boston Hatracker can let you crash at their place (I can't, unfortunately). Myr???
City living can be, depending where you are, and the thing about cities is you can walk 4-5 blocks and get yourself into a location that is not as safe as the one you were in. Do some reading up on Boston neighborhoods to get an idea.
Good luck, and if you have any general Boston questions, ask 'em. There are several Boston Hatrackers around, and we're all pretty helpful folks. We've even mostly met each other!
-Bok
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
The north end is kinda a mess to find housing in. Expand your search a little bit. After all, almost every place in the city is within a short distance of the north end through public transportation.
Beyond that, though, I sublet the last 6 months of my lease through craigslist without meeting the guy (in boston). If you find a motivated seller, you can get a place.
Check boston.com too. They have a good housing section. You might have luck that way.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
Thanks a lot for your responses. I'm definitely looking at different areas for housing(Cambridge would be cool--lots of other students) but I'd really like to be able to walk to class without having to take the T. And--while it has been hard finding the right places, I've already been through 3 apartments in the North end that were PERFECT--except for the fact that I can't be there to meet the roommate.
If I don't have a place by the 20th, I'm planning on driving up there the week before August and looking till I find the right place. My cousin says I can sleep on the floor at her place in Newton if I need to.
I'm sure I'll have lots of Boston questions when I get there, and maybe it would be cool to meet some Boston 'rackers.
Posted by SenojRetep (Member # 8614) on :
I don't really have any advice. By the time I got to Boston, I already had a permanent roommate (followed by two more shortly thereafter). But welcom to the area, and we should definitely have a gathering sometime this Fall.
I came from a pretty small, rural community, and felt quite comfortable when I moved to Boston. But I chose an area well outside the city but accessible by public transit, because the housing prices were cheaper, and it seemed safer. In my five years here, I have never felt less safe than when I lived in podunk Utah. That said, I wouldn't want to live in Dorchester or Roxbury or Charlestown.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Parts of Charlestown are okay I wouldn't want to live in Malden anymore... The neighborhood I lived in 5 years ago is now a bit gang-ridden.
Don't be afraid of the T. Embrace it. Sure, after a couple years you'll complain about it like the rest of us jaded Boston types, but it is one of the reasons my wife and I don't really want to leave a T accessible town. --
So one thing you should know, LW, speaking of all these towns and neighborhoods. Boston itself is not as big as you think, and the surrounding towns are cities in their own right, not parts of Boston. These include Quincy, Revere, Malden, Everett, Somerville, Cambridge, Newton, and Brookline. However there are quite a few neighborhoods in Boston itself. Some of these are old-time neigborhoods, and others are towns that got sucked into Boston proper. These include East Boston, South Boston (Southie), the North End, the South End (NOT Southie), Back Bay, Allston and Brighton, Roxbury (and West Roxbury), Jamaica Plain (known as "JP"), Roslindale, Chinatown, and Dorchester.
Around the North End is Government Center, Haymarket, North and South Stations, Downtown Crossing, and Chinatown. Southie and Back Bay are a bit beyond that.
And thus ends your geography lesson. Please note that in Boston, just because something is called a cardinal direction doesn't actually mean it's exactly where it says it is; also some places don't have any relation to their name, description-wise.
-Bok
Posted by Shmuel (Member # 7586) on :
I've got a couch in East Boston (Eastie) if you need to crash for a few days.
Posted by sarahdipity (Member # 3254) on :
Don't get too discouraged. I think if you don't find someone before driving up you'll find something quite quickly once you get here. As someone who has sublet off of craigslist I can say that when you have a room for rent you're meeting lots of really strange people and you start to not want to deal with unknown quantities. I probably would not agree to a long lease with anyone that I had not met, unless we had lots of communication and I felt I knew enough about them. You may find someone who will sublet to you but you need to make sure your emails sound super friendly, honest, and open. Also, you probably want to meet the people as well and to see the place. While digital pics at least somewhat help, they don't usually show you the mold growing in the corner and stuff.
Good luck!
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
I've had a lot of fun learning all the "cities" of greater Boston and the surrounding area. I took a trip up to interview at the school (they require personal interviews with all applicants considering they only take 15 into the program every fall)--and part of the trip was exploring everything I could. I got to go to the Red Sox/Yankees game at Fenway, ride the T everywhere, played chess in Harvard Square, and my dad took me to an expensive Italian restaurant in the North End. It was fantastic trip, for sure.
Thanks a lot for the offer of a couch, Shmuel--I very may well take you up on it if I have to :-)
About my apartment search--the idea of choosing the North End was really just a way to narrow down the choices--and it would certainly be convenient. Is there anywhere else (if I can't get the North End) that you all would highly recommend--and the corollary--places I should definitely avoid?
Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
I just moved to Boston a month ago. I'm living in Allston on the B line.
Posted by martha (Member # 141) on :
Hi Launchy Wiggin! (Hi other Boston jatraqueros!)
I don't have much help for you in the quest for an apartment, although I've had luck finding housemates in Somerville, and most of that is various degrees of T-accessible.
In my experience, the best way to learn your way around a city is on a bike, and greater Boston is a good biking city. You may get lost, but unlike on foot it doesn't take all afternoon to get un-lost, and unlike in a car you can go the wrong way down a one-way street, and there are lots of those in Boston. That said, biking in a city can be dangerous. It gets less dangerous when you know the streets better, so you know what the cars are contending with in terms of traffic patterns, but there are certain safety guidelines to follow. If you decide to get a bike, I HIGHLY recommend reading a book or two on bicycling safety.
Once you're here, we should have a Hatrack gathering, meet at a restaurant or something.
Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
It's also really easy to walk a lot of places. I was really surprised when I realized how close a lot of the T stops are to each other.
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
Somerville, Allston, Brighton, all have a lot of college students, and are good places for 20 somethings due to the variety of night life. Allston and Brighton is a bit of a T-ride into the northend, but not too bad.
Along the B train of the green line is boston university. Not sure the prices, but I would imagine that there are a lot of students looking for roommates there. You'd also be close to fenway
Davis and Porter square in somerville are on the redline, and a fairly quick trip into downtown boston. Again, lots of college students and 20 somethings in the area.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
martha, not to start a flame war, but bikes are beholden to all the same traffic rules as cars. I've nearly hit several bikers because they were coming down the wrong way on a one-way street as I was turning onto it.
People do it, and it's understandable, but it isn't legal, and it's potentially dangerous. Of course, car drivers aren't great role models concerning traffic laws in Boston either. --- Acceptable neighborhoods: North End, Beacon Hill, Back Bay, Somerville near Porter and Davis Squares, Teele and Union are usually also fine. Cambridge near Porter and Davis, Cambridgeport, Harvard Square, and if you feel a little adventurous, Central Square. Allston and Brighton are okay, but very much college kid areas, with all that entails. I hear mixed things about Fenway.
Avoid: Roxbury, Dorchester, Lynn, Malden, Chelsea, parts of Charlestown, East Somerville, Mission Hill (especially the back of the hill).
-Bok
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
Again, thanks for the help, guys. The search is still underway.
I don't think I'll be riding a bike in the city. It's too scary.
Another question: Do city people eat out like, all the time? I've never seen so many restaurants in my life. I've been buying groceries for a few years now (but always from Kroger/Wal-Mart). Do they even have big grocery stores like that in the city?
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
No, they don't eat out all the time, and yes there are supermarkets. Less so around the North End and surrounding neigborhoods, but I live near Porter Square in Somerville and there are 2-3 near enough to me. The local supermarket chains are Shaws, Market Basket, Whole Foods (Natural Foods), there are a few Trader Joe's. In Chinatown there are some good Asian supermarkets (Super-88(??) for one). There are LOTS of restaurants, and for it's size it's probably one of the most diverse, high quality dining towns on earth... It was recently rated top ten in the country. I eat out more than I should
Oh, the supermarkets will generally be a little smaller in the city, but there are decent sized ones too. To get food from them, it's recommended you by a "granny cart" and put your bags in it. Also, costs for stuff will generally be a bit higher overall, and you may find particular items more expensive here (and some, like certain seafood, cheaper, though not cheap), which can sometimes make dining out more attractive.
-Bok
Posted by Little_Doctor (Member # 6635) on :
I'll be starting at Northeastern Universtiy in the fall. We should totally have a Boston Hatrack party.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Definitely, LD.
BTW, there are also a lot of corner stores/markets in Boston, where you can get your grocery needs, LW.
-Bok
Posted by Chanie (Member # 9544) on :
There is also peapod that delivers. I used that for a lot of staples when I lived in Beacon Hill.
You may also want to consider parts of Somerville that are near the Orange Line. That goes straight into North Station and Haymarket in the North End.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Honestly, most of the parts of Somerville are not where newcomers ought to live. They are rather downtrodden, and you inevitably live near a couple of elevated highways. I lived in Malden for a couple years so I know the northern part of the Orange Line pretty well and I wouldn't want to live there now.
-Bok
Posted by Chanie (Member # 9544) on :
???? With Harvard, MIT, and Tufts all bordering Somerville, there are tons of students living there. And the pricing is much more reasonable, there are most student hangouts, and there is a younger culture.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Err, I should have said those on the Orange Line. They are decidedly "old" Somerville, not hip, student Somerville, for the most part.
-Bok
Posted by Chanie (Member # 9544) on :
Yeah, I live in Inman with 3 other MIT grad students. It's about a 10-15 minute walk to the orange line, or there's a bus that picks up on my street.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Well, Inman is technically Cambridge Is it really that close to Sullivan Square?
-Bok
Posted by Chanie (Member # 9544) on :
My street is actually half-Cambridge/half-Somerville. It makes finding a parking spot with a Somerville sticker a real pain. Yup, Sullivan is closest.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Y'all still have Peapod? They went blooey years ago out here.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Welcome to high density living, rivka They are actually more common around here for supplying companies with tasty things for their employees. We get a weekly shipment of stuff from here.
-Bok
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
Leaving for Boston in a few hours. My little Honda is packed full of clothes, books, more books, a bookshelf, and a banjo. I haven't found an apartment yet, so the next week is going to be lots of fun :-)
I'm staying on my cousin's floor in Newton until I find an apartment.
Seeya round'
~Andy
Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
Woo. There should be a gathering soon.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Can we make it in September (the meeting)? I am swamped until then
Oh, and good luck LW!
-Bok
Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
I have no plans from now until then, so sure. I basically do nothing aside from my 9-5.
Posted by martha (Member # 141) on :
Bokonon, I said that when you navigate a city by bike, "you can go the wrong way down a one-way street." I should have been more clear: I do not recommend <i>riding</i> the wrong way on a one-way street, but if you need to get to the other end you can walk your bike, which you can't do if you're driving a car.
Chanie, I think you're talking about the Red Line. I lived in Somerville next-door to Cambridge for a year, and it was a 15-minute walk to the Red Line and a 25-minute walk to the Orange Line.
I've heard ungood things about the quality of Peapod's produce these days... but there are a multitude of farmer's markets and other sources of fresh local and organic produce as an alternative to the usual supermarket.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
So, 2 and a half days in Boston, I have:
Seen 6 apartments, talked to/e-mailed like 20 people. Been everywhere--all around Cambridge, Somerville, South Boston, Southie, North End, and all the neighborhoods along the pike, green lines, and the red line. I'm at my cousin's boyfriends place in Concord tonight, which is much better than the floor of a tiny studio. I took the T all day yesterday (probably walked like 10 miles) and tried driving today and HOLY CRAP. Driving in Boston is INSANE--which I knew, but I figured I should learn quick. It was fun in a way--getting lost and finding myself going over some Tobin Bridge and getting stuck very far away from where I was supposed to be(Cambridge).
We're going to see A Midsummer Night's dream on the Common tomorrow night.
My days have NEVER been as busy and crazy as these. I'm going to be worn out very soon.
See you around,
~Andy
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I wish I was in MA right now....I really wanted to have another Hatrack picnic.
Although I have met quite a few Hatrackers here in FL.
Posted by Chanie (Member # 9544) on :
quote:Originally posted by martha: Chanie, I think you're talking about the Red Line. I lived in Somerville next-door to Cambridge for a year, and it was a 15-minute walk to the Red Line and a 25-minute walk to the Orange Line.
One can live on the Somerville/Cambridge border near Porter (Red Line), or Inman (Red and Orange line).
Posted by martha (Member # 141) on :
I'm sorry to perpetuate the argument, but Inman Square is nowhere near the Orange Line. It's closer to the Green Line (Lechmere) than the Orange (Sullivan is closest), and it's still a nontrivial walk to Lechmere, at least a mile.
Go to this page; ignore the "Subway Map," as it doesn't represent actual locations or relative distances. Click the tab that says "Interactive Street Map" and zoom in. Inman Square is where Cambridge St and Hampshire St cross (near Prospect St, which is shown in yellow). http://mbta.com/schedules_and_maps/subway/
By the way, Launchywiggin and anyone else who lives in Boston, this is a good map to print out and tape to your fridge or somewhere. There's also a metro-area bus map, which is if anything more useful, but I can't find it on their website at the moment. (I know it exists because I have it taped to my fridge.)
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bokonon: Welcome to high density living, rivka
No thanks.
quote:Originally posted by Bokonon: They are actually more common around here for supplying companies with tasty things for their employees. We get a weekly shipment of stuff from here.
It's just as well they didn't last here. The supermarket delivery services (Albertsons.com, Vons.com) have far better quality fresh stuff than Peapod did when they existed here. They don't have to keep a whole warehouse stocked just for deliveries, after all.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
I'm having a little bit of a breakdown here. I've been to so many apartments and written so many e-mails, but nothing has been quite right yet. I've been on my cousin's floor for a week, so I'm not sleeping well, and I should be out by tomorrow but I haven't found anything.
I'm definitely missing home. Back in Virginia, I knew where everything was, people don't drive like maniacs, and...my friends and family are all there. I'm thinking it's natural to get homesick and I've just got to fight through it, but this whole idea of being alone for the first time (and in this completely foreign place) is daunting.
Also--I have no idea where the stops are on the Green line D branch (where I'm staying). It's all being done on bus right now while they repair the rails, but the MBTA site doesn't say where the new stops are.
I find myself asking questions that are painfully simple to everyone else here, and I feel so stupid because of it.
Anyway, I'm scared and lonely because my cousin works all day and night--so I don't know anybody. I wish school would start early.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Well, Peapod got bought out by a New England supermarket chain (Stop & Shop, which is now owned by the Hannafords family of chains), so it's probably better than it was when they were independent. ---
Homesick is normal, I had it tons in college (and was similarly a jolt. I went from small town (18,000 people) to big city (inner-city Baltimore).
I grew up outside of Boston (40 miles or so), and didn't go in all that often as a kid. When I moved here it took me a year or two to really get comfortable with locations. The most important thing to aid you is that Boston is a Landmark City, not a Directions City. Everything gets a little easier if you make everything relative to something else, rather than absolutes (like north, south, east, west).
Use the mbta.com site for the stops. The one they've had the last year or two is really good. I doubt there are any new stops, they are just reworking the existing ones.
-Bok
Posted by martha (Member # 141) on :
Launchywiggin, don't despair. You'll find a place, and you'll find your way around. It'll get easier, the longer you're here.
If you click on the station, it'll tell you where to find it. When you're at the intersection looking for the actual station, look for a big black T on a white background, on a lamp-post-type thing.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
It's definitely normal to be homesick. When I moved to New Orleans, I thought I'd never figure out where anything was. I wasn't used to public transportation, and everything seemed....really, really big.
Now, I look back and wonder how I ever thought that the university area was that large. I still don't know where anything is downtown, since I don't go there much, but I know one or two basic streets down there, so I can usually figure it out.
It's really scary moving to a new place on your own, but it does get better! I promise! *hugs*
-pH
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
Found a place :-) In Cambridge, near the central square stop. Everything feels much better now. Cool roommates, clean place--and I just gave the landlord my check, so I'm in. Thanks for the support, and for the recommendation, martha.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bokonon: Well, Peapod got bought out by a New England supermarket chain (Stop & Shop, which is now owned by the Hannafords family of chains), so it's probably better than it was when they were independent.
Being owned by a supermarket wouldn't necessarily help -- not unless they're utilizing the supermarkets' warehouses and/or supply chain.
Lw, congrats on the new place. Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
Congrats! I was thinking about living in Central Square myself, but ended up in Brookline, closer to my school.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Congrats LW! You're just 2 stops from me (Porter). Central is a little rough looking, but it's a really hip place. Good music venues, clubs, and restaurants. Hopefully we'll have a meetup when I can attend!
-Bok
Posted by martha (Member # 141) on :
Hey, great! I'm glad it worked out.
Maybe we can talk you into taking the square dancing class... Posted by SenojRetep (Member # 8614) on :
What square dancing class? My wife was quite the clogger as a kid, and I've been known to dosie-do on occassion (well, actually there was just the once, and it wasn't actually square dancing since it was just in a play, and all I really did was circle around a girl while keeping time to the music, but I think that still counts for something, right?).
Oh, and congratulations LW. I took the redline from downtown to Alewife last week, and Central certainly had the most interesting-looking patrons getting on and off the train. From what I hear (and not just from Bok), it's a fun and interesting neighborhood.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
So far, I can tell it's a great neighborhood. Good mix of crazies, weirdos, communists and supergenius MIT students. I'm still adjusting to not knowing where everything is, and I'm not much of an explorer (though I've been doing my best to get out and look around). As far as stuff to do--I'm looking for a choir to join--hopefully semi-professional, graduate-level type thing rather than a community chorus. I need to find a new piano teacher, so I'm in the process of looking. I'd LIKE to go out and find stuff to do, but without knowing anyone, (or where the stuff to do is), it's much easier to sit in my room and enjoy the A/C.
I'm definitely going out tomorrow, though. And monday.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Yeah, the communist party office/bookstore amused me when I discovered it... Never been inside though.
As far as singing, a bunch of my friends were part of a very serious amateur group called Musica Sacra. There are plenty other groups around too.
-Bok
Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
Woo welcome to Boston!
Posted by martha (Member # 141) on :
Senoj, I'm referring to Tech Squares (http://www.mit.edu/activities/tech-squares/). It's a really great place to learn, because the class overlaps time/space with the club, which means that when you're learning you get to dance with people who already know what they're doing. I took the class two years ago and have been going regularly ever since. The dancing itself appeals to me because it's just as much a workout for your brain as for your body... and I love the community.
Posted by Kale (Member # 6460) on :
Hello, Wiggin what Launches!
Random tidbits from the top of my head, things to wander around in Central Square and find:
Brookline Lunch. It isn't in Brookline; it's on Brookline Street, very close to Mass. Ave. The place is the best cheap-good place I've found for breakfast, and they put all kinds of veggies in the "homefries."
Pandemonium Books. It's around the corner from the 7-11. Very nice sci-fi/fantasy book store, and gaming space in the basement. Good collection of RPG books, some Warhammer terrain, board games, and a Couch of Doom.
Rodney's Books. On Mass Ave. Dangerous bookstore; be prepared to leave with a book. or two. or three or four or five...
1369 Coffehouse. Conveniently located at 1369 Mass Ave. For all your anti-Starbucks needs.
Of course there are tons and tons of other things we could suggest to you (eg. the best breakfast in Boston can be found at Sound Bites cafe, in Ball Square, Somerville; the crepe restaurant in Davis Square is pretty darned good, as is Diesel Cafe; the Porter Exchange building near the Porter T has several good restaurants in it, including Bluefin, perhaps the best price-performance tradeoff in Boston-area sushi), but I'll leave it at that for now.
Best wishes!
Standard disclaimer: all recommendations are IMHO. Feel free to disagree; I'm willing to learn something delicious in the process. Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Soundbites is over-rated IMO (though it is still tasty)... And now with the new, larger space it isn't nearly as quaint. Sunday brunch at Johnny D's in Davis is where it's at, or breakfast at Renee's, a cafe between Davis and Teele on Holland St.
Also, one of the best places for great beer is Downtown Liquors in Davis. Their wine/liquor selection is mediocre, but the beer selection is amazing.
-Bok
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
I feel bad that I'm not taking advantage of all of the awesome restaurants/cafes, but my biggest money-saver is careful grocery shopping and cooking at home. I'm amazed at how many cheap farmer's markets there are, with so much more than just fruits and vegetables. I'd never seen a "Trader Joes", "Harvest Market" or "Whole Foods Market" before coming to Boston, either. I had no idea how big "organic" was up here.
I have been to lots of bookstores and music shops, and it's overwhelming how cool and cheap they all are.
While we're posting reviews, I'll say that the Mass General hospital was absolutely top-notch in their service and hospitality. They told me there was a hospital in Cambridge I could have gone to, but I had no idea where it was. I passed "Charles/MGH" on the red line every day, so that was the only one I knew about Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
All the breakfast places listed are pretty cheap (and if you do go to SoundBites, be sure to get their "No Place Like... HomeFries", that's their specialty).
Yeah, organic is big up here. Also, notice all the hybrids around. We're just a big ol' liberal mess of a place.
BTW, have you been to Chinatown yet? There are some great Asian markets there.
Most of the really good hospitals are in Boston. MGH, Brigham & Womens, Beth Israel Deaconess. I believe MGH is Harvard Med's teaching school too.
-Bok
Posted by SenojRetep (Member # 8614) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bokonon: Yeah, organic is big up here. Also, notice all the hybrids around. We're just a big ol' liberal mess of a place.
[aside] I think it's etymologically amusing that environmental conservationism and agricultural regressionism are associated with "liberal" rather than "conservative" politics.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Hey, I didn't make the definitions, I just live with them And both aren't exactly true regressions, neither are your grandfather's ways of travel/food raising. And, of course, a lot of the organic-related stuff is pretty bogus too (specifically the term "free range").
-Bok
Posted by sarahdipity (Member # 3254) on :
I've never been sure why it's associated with liberal. My very nonliberal extended family is often more concerned about environmental stuff than my liberal friends. This has a lot to do with the fact they're more likely to try to live off the (their) land.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I wouldn't want to live in Malden anymore... The neighborhood I lived in 5 years ago is now a bit gang-ridden.![[Wink]](wink.gif)