I haven't noticed a thread on this since the old one was deleted, but if I'm repeating a thread, please forgive me.
I just saw Ratatouille last night. It was everything everyone on Hatrack said it would be. It was wonderful. I feel like a better person for having seen it. I am encouraged, uplifted, comforted. It was magical.
I didn't know it was possible to make an animated rat (or ANY rat) so expressive. In all the scenes where Remi couldn't talk, I didn't feel any lack: he didn't need any words.
I actually believed all the characters. Even Anton Ego and the sneaky little chef.
It was heartwarming without being sappy. Only as I write this now do I realise there were no musical numbers. I liked Collette and I liked Remi's dad and Amille.
Ego's face when he tasted the ratatouille was perfect, and I left the movie feeling sad I couldn't get to know him better in his happier persona.
I am pretty sure this is my favourite Pixar movie ever. I just watched The Incredibles the other day, and I was struck again by the big and important questions that movie raises and never answers. Ratatouille asks identity questions, too, but gives a very simple answer. I enjoy both movies a lot, but Ratatouille definitely comes out on top.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
I couldn't agree with you more. Pixar has yet to make a really bad movie, but this one was sublime. It made many of the their past works look a little thin by comparison.
Danged synesthesiac rat made me cry, and I hardly ever cry in movies anymore.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Hehehehe! Synesthesiac rat! I love it! It was so cool when he'd tasted the food and was like, ahhhh.
That movie was such a delight.
If I wasn't going to be reading HP7 I'd see it again along with the new HP movie because it's economical to see two movies in one day.
And I too got a bit misty eyed in scenes.
Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
Oh, I was definitely misty-eyed more than once. I plan to see it again on the weekend.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
Just to offer an alternate opinion.
I still thought it was great and well worth the admission, and I, too, choked up at the one scene (minorly spoilerish description upcoming) which managed to truly capture what the words "just like momma used to make" are supposed to mean.
But I thought it was right in the middle as far as Pixar's efforts and I didn't feel it had near the intensity or emotional depth of The Incredibles, Finding Nemo, or Monsters, Inc. which still stand, IMHO, as arguably the three best consecutive, independent (from each other) movies put out by *any* studio. But I think my circumstances and their effect on my values may have something to do with that as well.
So good, maybe even great, and I definitely thought it was the most visually stunning Pixar movie yet (which is saying something), but not on a par with the very best of Pixar (which is by no means a complaint).
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I agree with the majority in this thread. Ratatouille is the best movie I've seen in ages, period. I'd put it up there with Whale Rider and Raising Arizona in my pantheon of great movies.
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: If I wasn't going to be reading HP7 I'd see it again along with the new HP movie because it's economical to see two movies in one day.
Why is it economical to see two movies in one day? Just the price of gas to get to the theater or something?
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
I'd put it on level with Finding Nemo. While I really enjoyed The Incredibles and Monster's Inc. but didn't find either of them to have as much emotional intensity or depth as the fish and rat movies.
Lots of fun, and a great string really great movies, yes, which makes value judgments among them rather more about personal taste than actual merit, I'm sure.
I'd probably put Nemo and Toy Storyin the same class as Ratatouille, but I'm sure it's only a matter of taste. Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:and Raising Arizona in my pantheon of great movies.
Drat! I tried to rent and watch this movie for the first time last weekend and the person at blockbuster said there was somebody who had rented it beyond the "must purchase line" and that it should not even be on the shelf. She then declared I should not be allowed to rent it and I went home and watched Ghost in the Shell instead for the first time. What a cool movie!
As for Ratatouille, it was a solid movie, I agree that it might not Pixar's best, but I always withold judgements of movies until I've seen it the second time and have had time for it to flush out of my system. Some movies just grow on you until you realize they are the cream of the crop, whereas others are amazing the first time but don't age well. That said I GREATLY enjoyed Ratatouille. The fact it was a rat honestly did not bother me at all, Pixar got me to like monsters and that's worse then rats if you ask me. I loved how the story panned out. I loved its realistic ending.
Spoilers*
I was ready to be annoyed when Skinner got Linguini drunk on wine as I feared the typical, "Trusting protaganist reveals vital secret to the villain making his life far worse" plot development was about to occur. I loved that Linguini said nothing important and that the villain wasted a bottle of VERY expensive wine and simply got more frustrated, that movie really took some cliches and gave them the boot.
I loved how they were forced to eventually release the Skinner and the health dept stooge who promptly shut down the restaurant. I was dreading how they would handle Ego at the climax of the movie but I absolutely loved how it turned out. It was extremely fun that the villain became a strong supporter and friend of the protagonists
I've always enjoyed eating at bistros more then proper restaurants anyway!
/spoilers
Pixar has yet to disapoint, and when the trailors for their next movie about a robot had my sister laughing at how stupid it looked, I just shrugged because I still expect their next movie to rock my socks.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
I'd put Nemo in the bottom three for Pixar.
(But still very good.)
EDIT: upon further consideration, change two to three.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Ratatouille is a masterpiece, and has set a new high standard for US animation.
it's also one of the very few film of 2007 that deserves a "best picture" nomination.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
It [edit: I meant the fish movie, not the rat movie]was flawed, yeah, but there were parts of it that resonated with me, specifically, I guess. The super hero family and the monsters just didn't quite do it for me, though they still went way above the usual kid-vid crapola.
Comparing the merits of Pixar films is like trying to decide whether "ecru" or "bone" is the perfect not-quite-white. Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by Noemon:
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: If I wasn't going to be reading HP7 I'd see it again along with the new HP movie because it's economical to see two movies in one day.
Why is it economical to see two movies in one day? Just the price of gas to get to the theater or something?
I don't know. I'd like to delude myself into thinking that, plus it's less money on the train fare as I must take a train anytime I go to see a movie. It's NOT economical because I just ened up spending a ton of sushi and fancy smancy food which is soooo Remy of me.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
quote:Originally posted by Olivet: Comparing the merits of Pixar films is like trying to decide whether "ecru" or "bone" is the perfect not-quite-white.
Agreed. Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
How I'd rank Pixar's films:
Finding Nemo Monsters, Inc. Toy Story 2 The Incredibles Ratatouille Cars Toy Story A Bug's Life
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
For me it's:
Monsters, Inc. Ratatouille Toy Story and Toy Story 2--I can't decide The Incredibles Finding Nemo A Bug's Life Cars
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: How I'd rank Pixar's films:
Finding Nemo Monsters, Inc. Toy Story 2 The Incredibles Ratatouille Cars Toy Story A Bug's Life
Ok now rank every Disney movie Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
The Incredibles
*large gap*
Toy Story Monsters, Inc. Ratatouille Toy Story 2
* largish gap *
Finding Nemo Cars A Bug's Life
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
For me it'd be:
Ratatouille Finding Nemo Incredibles Toy Story Cars A Bug's Life (The other two I have not seen)
The best short was the sheep song one.
-Bok
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
I think the only recent non-Pixar Disney movie I've liked at a level comparable to Pixar's films is Lilo and Stitch.
("You're vile! You're foul! You're flawed!" "Also cute and fluffy!")
The expressiveness of the faces in Ratatouille is incredible; watching the villain chef's face go through paroxysms of "Oh this is so good- Noooooooo!- But this is delicious- That little!-" is hilarious.
It's also the first animation in recent years where I felt like applauding the camera work; following Remy through the walls is fascinating.
Brad Bird has a genius for confounding expectations; the number of times in his films where one could say, "In a conventional screenplay, this would now occur, but it would be perfectly logical and far more interesting if this is what happens" never fails to delight me.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
Just to join in (I expect to be tomatoed for this)
Incredibles Nemo Monsters, Inc. <gap> Toy Story Cars Ratatouille (yes I liked Cars better... probably just more empathy with racing than food, despite my waistline) Toy Story 2 <bigger gap> Bug's Life
but I totally agree with Olivet that comparing Pixar movies is like comparing different "off-whites". We all seem to agree that A Bug's Life was near the bottom of the barrel for them... and how many film companies can say their worst effort was nearly that good?
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
I liked "Meet the Robinsons" at least as much as any Pixar movie other than "The Incredibles."
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: The Incredibles
*large gap*
Toy Story Monsters, Inc. Ratatouille Toy Story 2
* largish gap *
Finding Nemo Cars A Bug's Life
Dag wrote out his list exactly as I would have written mine.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
I'm really surprised by how many people put The Incrdibles that high on their lists, but *shrug* there hasn't been a real stinker in the bunch.
I admit that I liked Meet the Robinsons, too, but Pixar has a great track record for not sucking. I think they've raised the bar, and others are inspired to produce better work. I also enjoyed Monster House.
So, net gain for everyone! Especially those of us with children who will beg to see the latest shiny, even if it isn't any good. Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Incredibles
*huge gap*
Toy Story 1 and 2 Finding Nemo
*Big Gap*
Monsters Inc Bug's Life
I won't see Cars and haven't seen Rat.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Political conservatives tend to like The Incredibles a lot.
Posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan (Member # 5626) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Pixiest: I won't see Cars
Why not?
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
I can't make that list, because while I think that A Bug's Life may fall in the bottom three, I just can't stand to put it there. I love that movie so much. I would probably put Monsters Inc at the Bottom.
Well crap. I may as well have a stab at it.
Never mind. I tried and I can't. My rating system seems to lie on a more horizontal plane, so I'm screwed.
quote:when the trailors for their next movie about a robot had my sister laughing at how stupid it looked, I just shrugged because I still expect their next movie to rock my socks.
That trailer actually brought a tear to my eye as the robot looks up into the sky...he was the most expressive robot I've ever seen. I kind of felt like I could sense what he was feeling. Weird? Yes. Pixar? Definitely.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Icky: What about libertarians?
RRR: I won't see Cars because I'm about as interested in seeing a movie about talking cars as I am seeing a movie about talking hammers. In fact, less. A car is a tool and I'm sick to death of our collective orgasm, as a species, over something that's supposed to get us from point A to point B. And anthropomorphizing them makes it worse. We're bombarded by car worship in the media and every day life as much as we are heterosexual sex. And it's soooo boring.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
For me it had a lot less to do with politics and a lot more to do with personal resonances and identifications.
I totally get Bob Parr. I totally appreciate Helen Parr. I both have been and am now parenting Violet, Dash, and Jack Jack. I have been Buddy as well. I have spent way too much of my life working for people like Mr. Huph. I've had friends like Lucius.
The movie was, to me, what Office Space, Dilbert, and The BOFH are to techies.
That and I grew up watching Sean Connery-era James Bond movies so I really loved all the homage to that genre in both the film and soundtrack and I also appreciated that Holly Hunter's radio calls were technically correct in each word, not just a bunch of jargon to sound good.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote: I won't see Cars because I'm about as interested in seeing a movie about talking cars as I am seeing a movie about talking hammers.
That's how I've felt about the last three or four Pixar movies, yet each one has ended up being excellent.
I feel exactly like you do about automobiles, Pixiest, and I found Cars thoroughly enjoyable.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Well, I enjoyed the Incredibles. It was fun an amazingly true to family experiences and relationships. The characters were mostly flawed, believable people. I think maybe I'm just a bit tired of super hero genre, or something, because, though the plot was tight and all, it just didn't blow up my skirt, if you will. (but I still enjoyed it a LOT)
Never was a big fan of the old Bond, though I found most of the new ones fun (and the last one absolutely incredible).
I think my favorite scene from the Incredibles was one they cut. Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Pixiest: Icky: What about libertarians?
Pretty much anybody who hates "Political Correctness."
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Part of why The Incredibles gets such high ratings may have to do with the fact that out of "super-hero team movies", it's only real competition for quality are the first two X-Men movies...which were actually mostly Wolverine movies. Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
quote:Originally posted by Eaquae Legit: I just watched The Incredibles the other day, and I was struck again by the big and important questions that movie raises and never answers. Ratatouille asks identity questions, too, but gives a very simple answer.
Actually, I always prefer works of art to raise questions and not answer them. I always feel that when the authors already know the answers they are merely preaching to me, and raising the questions only Socratically. I always appreciate works that leave me wondering what the answers are.
Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
quote:Originally posted by Icarus:
quote:Originally posted by Eaquae Legit: I just watched The Incredibles the other day, and I was struck again by the big and important questions that movie raises and never answers. Ratatouille asks identity questions, too, but gives a very simple answer.
Actually, I always prefer works of art to raise questions and not answer them. I always feel that when the authors already know the answers they are merely preaching to me, and raising the questions only Socratically. I always appreciate works that leave me wondering what the answers are.
I like them too, which is why I was still so impressed by The Incredibles upon repeat viewing. I totally "get" Buddy. I couldn't hate him. I actually wish they'd toned down his appearance a little and made him a little less comical. But then, perhaps we'd have trouble seeing him as the villain at all.
Ratatouille wasn't asking such complex questions. The big question (to me) of Remy's search for self, well, I'm pretty sure they answered it, but I'm not sure how. I do know I was supremely satisfied at the end, though. Maybe I'm just in a space now where I want my heart to be warmed by a Rat Chef.
And I suppose I'm going to post my list of favourites:
Ratatouille Monsters, Inc. The Incredibles Finding Nemo
*gap of indeterminate size*
Toy Story 2 Toy Story
And I haven't seen A Bug's Life, and I'm not sure I'll bother with Cars.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Icarus:
quote:Originally posted by The Pixiest: Icky: What about libertarians?
Pretty much anybody who hates "Political Correctness."
I'm not sure this is a discussion I want to raise here, but I'd put "The Incredibles" near the top of my list, and I don't think I fall under anyone's definition of conservative. The idealization of mediocrity isn't necessarily intrinsically tied to political correctness, nor does the term "politically correct" specifically defined by a liberal viewpoint, despite that it is sometimes used that way.
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: I liked "Meet the Robinsons" at least as much as any Pixar movie other than "The Incredibles."
I must confess I didn't get a chance to see it. The T-Rex segment in the preview did make me laugh, though. ("I have a big head... And tiny little arms!")
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
Ah well. I thought Ratatouille was OK. I was sad that there weren't any musical numbers. (After watching, my husband had fun coming up with a few possibilities.) I did love the part when the critic tasted the ratatouille. I just think I never got over the ick factor of rats in the kitchen, which started for me when the rat colony fell out of the ceiling in the old lady's house. *shudder*
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Liz B: I was sad that there weren't any musical numbers. (After watching, my husband had fun coming up with a few possibilities.) I did love the part when the critic tasted the ratatouille. I just think I never got over the ick factor of rats in the kitchen, which started for me when the rat colony fell out of the ceiling in the old lady's house. *shudder*
Agreed. I still thought the movie was marvelous, though. Who knew Spence had such range?
Oh, and Syn, it makes a great double feature with HP5. Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
It made a pretty good double with POTC III. Posted by Earendil18 (Member # 3180) on :
I agree with everything everybody has said. Even if it contradicts!
I have a HUGE respect for the amount of talent at Pixar.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
FWIW, Cars also improves over time. I know this because it's Sophie's favorite movie, and it grew on me enormously between the first and the thirty-seventh viewing.
Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
Now that's the mark of a great movie. Not only does a small child like it, but the parent does. And not only do they not feel a murderous rage welling inside at the 37th viewing, the parent actually likes it more.
Haha, Tom may have convinced me to watch it someday. At least, I've moved from "active avoidance" to "mild curiosity and may put it on some night shift".
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by Eaquae Legit: I totally "get" Buddy. I couldn't hate him. I actually wish they'd toned down his appearance a little and made him a little less comical. But then, perhaps we'd have trouble seeing him as the villain at all.
Not me. He murdered, murdered, then murdered some more to perfect his "equalizing inventions".
He also approved the death of innocent children and tried to kidnap and brainwash a helpess baby.
Very easy to see him as a villain, even if they deleted the over-the-top Bond villain touches and outre' look.
Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
But to some extent, he's still... recognisable. I can understand that hurt little kid, the one whose hero crushed his dreams. So many villains are hard to empathise with. Randall was a jerk, and I could never see myself in his shoes. His motives were alien to me.
Buddy was an annoying kid, and even more obnoxious as an adult. But it really wasn't his fault he wasn't born with powers, and I admire his intelligence and determination to be a hero despite that. And while I also understand Mr Incredible's irritation, he was rude, and he really caused a lot of hurt. Buddy is the most sympathetic villain I've ever seen in a movie. I dislike his scenes because of his more irritating characteristics, and I would have liked him to not have those big blaring cartoon lights which scream "Bad Guy! Bad Guy!"
Maybe I was too strong in saying we wouldn't see him as a villain. You're right, he DID kill an awful lot of people. I just... I wish he'd gotten as nuanced a treatment as the questions of what makes someone "super" did.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Well, the super-hero genre isn't big on subtle nuance.
In fact, it's as Rube Goldbergian a concept as any. Even the more literate, mature takes on it can only go so far.
(I'm not saying this means they aren't good, I'm just saying you need to suspend a -lot- of disbelief for even the most "realistic" stories.)
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