It seems to me that the great majority of people seem to be dissapointed (myself included) with how the epilogue panned out. I myself was expecting a detailed description of what happened to every major character. Instead, no, we recieved little information.
As a scene by itself, and as an ending of a book it was superlative, don't get me wrong. But for the ending of a series many have poured their hearts into? I was fully expecting to learn of the fates of my most favorite charcters. Indeed it also left many ends loose. Was Teddy a werwolf? Who was Headmaster? (Probably McGonagol), Was Snape's story ever told. What even happened to Teddy?
It seems to me, that as more and more people finish the book, more will come to the same conclusion, and Rowling will most likely decide that she needs to clarify what happened. Whether she writes another book, or simply another chapter, I don't know, but I feel that there will be an enormous outcry from the Harry Potter community to tell us, lest she end the series on a sour note for many.
Posted by Ginol_Enam (Member # 7070) on :
I believe she has stated she would most likely at some point publish an encyclopedia containing much of the information and back story she has in her notes and head, but of which she had no room or time to divulge in the books.
I would bet that there will be a "What happened to..." section in that, if its ever released.
Posted by firebird (Member # 1971) on :
I'm surprised that so many people are dissappointed in the Epilogue I thought it was perfect.
Life usually has loose ends, it's just the way it is. Books that try to tie up all the loose ends sometimes frustrate me ...
Teddy might or might not be a werewolf, but he is loved by his friends and relations and is dating Bill and Fleur's daughter. Teddy could either have been brought up by Bill and Fleur, Mrs Weasley, Gma Tonks or Harry and Ginny. I suspect not Bill and Fleur given he is dating their daughter. Whoever brought him up clearly loved him and he is practically familly to Harry and Ginny.
Who is headmaster? Someone that has managed to get the school back on track, it's working just as it always has.
Snape's story was told in the great hall and Snape story in known to the principal characters that have named their child with Lily's eye's after Severus. I feel sure he woudl have felt hugely honoured.
George would have grieved for his twin and then continued his business. Someone that creative and fun would always bounce back.
Mr and Mrs Wealey are proud grandparents.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
I would have liked more information than just how many kids everyone has, their names, and the fact that Neville is a professor.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
I would like to know what happens to Percy. Does he go back to Kingsley's ministry, or does he perhaps take his brother's place in helping to run the joke shop?
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
I don't see Percy in the joke shop. I see him as Kingsley's right hand man, and possibly Minister himself one day - a good one, given that he has gotten over his pompousness. He was very capable and smart, after all and once he came back down to earth would be a great administrator and official.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
The trouble with the encyclopedia is that the epilogue itself wasn't really the problem. As has been pointed out, life comes with loose ends and you'll never know exactly what happens to everyone without an alphabetical character listing with a rundown of dates, weddings, children, jobs, and death. That would be boring and I'm not interested. I have enough back story to be satisfied, too. I don't need more of that.
What I was interested in was one more chapter before the epilogue -- an honest to god chapter of denouement that describes some of the aftermath of that battle. The wizarding world was in a state of advanced upheaval. That year at Hogwarts didn't relaly count or happen for many of the students...what will they do next year? What does Harry Potter do in the thick of all that? Disappear? Accept the many honors that will come his way? Or does Rita Skeeta try to turn him into the next dark lord and everyone fears him? Does he finish school in the end? What kind of job does he get? I imagine it would be hard for him to get most normal jobs after what he did and in the end, I don't believe auror was the right one for him, even though he defeated Voldemort and would have been welcomed there.
His life may *eventually* turn into a normal life, but in a way I found the epilogue far-fetched. I imagined people would be gawking at him more than ever before, even 19 years later. No one will forget what happened that night and there were hundreds of witnesses. I also never got a sense that he moved on, since the scene at the epilogue centered on a new generation going off to Hogwarts. Maybe this is coming from the perspective of a 30-year-old, but there's more to life than school. Surely he's found a new way to define himself in that time? If not, I find that pretty sad. It reminds me of Serius, living his life through Harry, who he thought of as James. Yet in Serius' case it was understandable because he really didn't have another life.
But I desist...in a nutshell, I don't want an encyclopedia of notes. I want a real sense of closure.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
I thought the epilogue suited the ending very well. But I would have gone with the "Harry stays dead" ending, so there you have it.
It was a bit of "Stranger than Fiction" no?
Posted by Javert Hugo (Member # 3980) on :
I don't think it was - Stranger Than Fiction was just a flat-out happy ending. Harry was clearly a Christ figure, and after he willingly sacrificed his life after learing from his stand-in father figure it was required of him, he came back from death stronger with the knowledge that he could defeat Voldemort.
Wanting Harry to stay dead is a different story entirely. It may or may not have been a bad story, but it isn't the story Rowling was telling.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine: His life may *eventually* turn into a normal life, but in a way I found the epilogue far-fetched. I imagined people would be gawking at him more than ay to define himself in that time? If not, I finever before, even 19 years later. No one will forget what happened that night and there were hundreds of witnesses.
The Epilogue had nearly everyone at the Station staring at Harry, once they realized it was him.
You think he was present when his kids went off to school because he was "sad and living through them"? Isn't it more likely that he loves his children and wanted to say goodbye to them?
I think most problems from the Epilogue stem from it being written all the way back in 1998-1999. Rowling's style and characters have evolved since then, and it shows. She should have gutted it and retrofit it.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I thought it was fine the way it is. Most of the details we can fill out ourselves, like assume that things turned out OK for all the people who mattered despite the losses. It meant the worse is over, the badguy is dead, the world has gone back to normal. Maybe he became a Quidditch player if he doesn't have to worry about tracking down Death Eaters.
Plus it equals the posibility of JKR changing her mind and thinking, "Hmmm, maybe I do want to delve into this world again, but on my own terms, where are my notes?" Which makes me feel hopeful.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
quote:Wanting Harry to stay dead is a different story entirely. It may or may not have been a bad story, but it isn't the story Rowling was telling.
Well, the story that went with Harry dying had to do with taking "For the greater good" at the point of giving one's own life. I think that would have been a pretty good story. But it probably would have focused on a few different things on the way there.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat:
quote:Originally posted by Christine: His life may *eventually* turn into a normal life, but in a way I found the epilogue far-fetched. I imagined people would be gawking at him more than ay to define himself in that time? If not, I finever before, even 19 years later. No one will forget what happened that night and there were hundreds of witnesses.
The Epilogue had nearly everyone at the Station staring at Harry, once they realized it was him.
You think he was present when his kids went off to school because he was "sad and living through them"? Isn't it more likely that he loves his children and wanted to say goodbye to them?
I think most problems from the Epilogue stem from it being written all the way back in 1998-1999. Rowling's style and characters have evolved since then, and it shows. She should have gutted it and retrofit it.
No, I guess what I meant was that I wanted to see Harry's life beyond school if she was going to bother to show us a bit from 19 years ahead. It felt like his life never really moved on because she didn't describe it moving on. I remember reading that she wrote the epilogue years ago and maybe that is the problem.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
I posted this on the other thread but I think it belongs here instead:
Oh, and I really thought the epilogue was perfect, if not deeply satisfying. The reason is because the epilogue is really just the fulfillment of something that was touched on in OotP, when Harry muses about how his life would have been if Neville had been attacked by Voldemort instead of himself. He thinks about a normal life, one where his parents would have brought him to King's Cross. Notice, please, that the epilogue was not focused on James, the older Potter son, but on Albus, Harry's doppelganger. It was there to let us feel and see what Harry's life could have been. It's a gift to Harry, most of all. There's a reason Ginny so resembles Lily and Harry, his father, and Albus, Harry.
Forgot to add: I think that's why their professions aren't mentioned; they don't matter. Neville's is mentioned as an aside in the same way a small child might discuss a professor that he already knows from outside school. You could easily replace "Neville/Professor Longbottom" with "Albus/Professor Dumbledore" or "Remus/Professor Lupin" for a young, unscarred Harry.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Perhaps Rowling, since she wrote the epilogue a long time ago felt that she should write up to it. As the epilogue originally stood that is how it would remain, dispite what wonderful new developments she conjured up in between.
Personally I am glad I got an epilogue at all, there are many wonderful books that never gave me such a gift.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
I don't think we can blame the "weaknesses" of the epilogue on it having been written first. SS is more rich in detail than the epilogue is. Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
She apparently changed the word "scar". I don't think the epilogue was just raw out of the safe from 1990.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Yes, but that was because she was excited and inventing the world, not preemptively deciding how things would wrap up.
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
I really like that PSI. Thanks for posting it.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
By the way, it's awesome to see PSI Teleport back. Just sayin'.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by pooka: She apparently changed the word "scar". I don't think the epilogue was just raw out of the safe from 1990.
Of course, but I bet much of the epilogue remains as when it was first written. Rowling herself said many times she knows who ultimately makes it and who doesn't. Then she said two people die she was not expecting and one person got a reprieve. But based on the vagueness of the epilogue all three of those characters could have gone to hell in a handbasket and it would not effect the final chapter.
I wonder how sureal of an experience it is/was for Daniel Radcliff, Emma Watson, Rupert Grint, etc to read the last book and all the while thinking, "I might have to SAY that," or Radcliff for example to say, "Yes I get to smooch Ginny again! *pumps fist*?"
Does Alan Rickman think, "Bah!, in the seventh movie I have to die pathetically pleading for my life, and by then I'll have spent 6 movies doing such a splendid job being so coarse!"
Posted by The White Whale (Member # 6594) on :
I thought the epilogue was perfect. It gave just enough information to know that their lives kept going, but nothing really about what they were doing.
What's it really matter what HP et al. were doing? Sure it would be fun to find out, but JK cannot be expected to map out the remainder of everyones' lives. I think it would be tedious, perhaps enjoyable, but really just useless.
Posted by Pepek (Member # 3773) on :
Rosie and Hugo are HerRonny's children, right? Is there any hints around in the books about what inspired the names?
Besides Albus Severus.. I thought a James and Lily was a bit much.
I suppose i'm just not a big fan of naming people after other people. Middle names, sure, but they already share the same last name with a bunch of other people, can't their first name be their own?
Meh.
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
I'd have preferred that the epilogue didn't exist. Not because I didn't want to see that the core characters were happy, but because I didn't feel that it fit in that place and at that time. I would have been happy to have the story end with the three walking out of the Great Hall. I would have possibly been happy with another chapter or maybe two dealing with immediate after-effects, but maybe not. But that 19 years after just didn't work for me.
Heeheee, and we have a Harry Potter poll site ad on the page...
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
quote: Then she said two people die she was not expecting and one person got a reprieve.
I wonder if we'll find out who. Probably Lupin and Tonks were the two she hadn't meant to kill. "My bad!"
People who might have died but didn't: Draco? George? (Instead of Fred, she got confused) Ummm.... Hagrid?
Neville didn't get to exact vengeance on Bellatrix. Maybe that was okay.
P.S. The Epilogue is just right if you happen to be 37 with a child who is almost 11. But I can see how a lot of folks might feel left out of that.
Posted by Pepek (Member # 3773) on :
I totally bet Hagrid was suppose to die (and I un-secretly wish he had)
She changed her mind when she was writing the part where Harry comes back to life and she was trying to decide how she'd go about bringing his body back, maybe having it been Narcissa at first..
Death by creatures would've been the most.. wow.. death for Hagrid.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
The reason for the off-camera wedding, deaths, discoveries, and the lightweight epilogue is obvious: J.K clearly left huge wide-open areas for fanficcers to leap merrily into. I anticipate lengthy, conflicting explanations of each of these scenes and lots of "Harry Potter: The Missing Years" stories to keep those fan sites active for years to come.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
quote:Death by creatures would've been the most.. wow.. death for Hagrid.
Well, he had it coming. But maybe she didn't want to make it seem a violent death was the just rewards of excess tolerance.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
I liked the epilogue. I thought it was just right.
Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chris Bridges: The reason for the off-camera wedding, deaths, discoveries, and the lightweight epilogue is obvious: J.K clearly left huge wide-open areas for fanficcers to leap merrily into. I anticipate lengthy, conflicting explanations of each of these scenes and lots of "Harry Potter: The Missing Years" stories to keep those fan sites active for years to come.
Chris sums up my impression of the epilogue nearly exactly. It's almost as if JKR was trying to maximize the areas for fanfic to fill in. I would have preferred more post-battle wrap up or some info on what happened over the next year to the "19 years later" but I don't hate the epilogue.
--Enigmatic
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
I have to disagree with everyone who has said that Harry is a Christ-figure.
He very obviously is a Batman-figure.
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
I can see why some people liked the epilogue. Indeed it provided closure, and as an ending for me it was good. It's just that I've been reading these books for Ten years, and the characters have really grown on me, so naturally I'm going to want to know what happens to them. As for fanfic, 1, its never written as well, no one can truly immitate another author, its too personal, and it just doesn'y feel right if someone else does it. So when I read the book and saw so many loose end before the Epilogue, I fully expected them to be tied up in the Epilogue. Instead, we learn the fates of only a few characters.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by pooka: By the way, it's awesome to see PSI Teleport back.
Indeed!
quote:Originally posted by Chris Bridges: The reason for the off-camera wedding, deaths, discoveries, and the lightweight epilogue is obvious: J.K clearly left huge wide-open areas for fanficcers to leap merrily into. I anticipate lengthy, conflicting explanations of each of these scenes and lots of "Harry Potter: The Missing Years" stories to keep those fan sites active for years to come.
Likely so.
Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :
I find it really unlikely that JKR left a hole for fanfic specifically... it's not like she makes any money or derives any real benefit from such writing.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Not planning on starting up the "is fanfic useful/good/eeevil/useless" arguments, I was (mostly) joking. I don't think she did it deliberately.
However, she is one of the few authors to go on record as permitting fanfic; the only restriction she has placed (besides don't sell it) is against depictions of underage sex.
Posted by BlueWizard (Member # 9389) on :
I think the Epilogue can be summed up as simply as this ....
"...and life goes on."
Yes, you are curious, but does it really matter what job Harry got? Obviously he go some job to support his soon to be family. Obviously Ron got some job too, because that's what adults do, they get jobs and raise families.
I prefer to think that since Harry was an original investor and backer of Weasley Enterprises (or Weasley Wizarding Wheezes as it was formerly known), that he was in a sense, a full partner in the business. So, with Fred gone, Harry simply asserted his partnership and entered the business.
Did that happen? It doesn't matter, it's what I think happened, and that satisfies me.
The bad guys are gone, and what can or does anyone do when the war is over. They get on with their lives, they return to normal, they shift their priorities to what is really important; love and family, and taking care of them.
From the looks of it, they've all done an excellent job of it.
Yes, I do wonder what happened to say...Draco... reprieve? ...prison? ...rich? ...poor? ...remorse? ...regret? But in the end it doesn't matter. What ever happened to him, he came through it and...
...life went on.
This is how books are suppose to end, with the readers not knowing but speculating on what happened next. When a book ends like that you feel alive because you know 'life goes on', that things do happen next, even if you don't know what they are.
For example, at the end of the Ender Sage, what happens to Peter and Wang Mu? Do they settle down and raise a family, or do they go off seeking adventure? What happens to Miro and Jane? What happens to the Formics and the Piggies? What happens with Starways Congress? What happens with faster than light-speed travel? So many unanswered questions?
In the Bean Sage, what happens to Petra and her kids? What happens to Bean in Flight and his kids? Again, so much of the future is left to the reader's imagination.
I imagine that Bean became confined to the ship and it's limited gravity, while his kids had to go down to strange and sometimes hostile planets and negotiate for food and supplies.
I imagine, that will all their massive brain power, and Bean there to educate them, they developed a degree of telepathic power that kept them connected with Bean while the kids wander unfriendly planets negotiating for supplies.
Did that happen, it doesn't matter because in my mind and my imagination, that 'happening' is just as real as if it had been written in the books.
You don't end a story with the readers completely satisfied and knowing everything. You leave them with their minds and imaginations on fire, speculating about the future and what happened next. You don't leave them hanging, but you do leave them wanting more; that is what keeps the story alive even when it is over.
There is tons that we don't know, but this we do know ... life went on. Of that, I'm glad.
Steve/BlueWizard
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
That's interesting about Rowling and the fan fiction, though I can see where she would support anything that encourages literacy within the limits of the law and ethics.
Maybe the name of Draco's kid indicates he married Lavender Brown or Pavarti Patil, more than being destined to be a villain in a soap opera.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chris Bridges: Not planning on starting up the "is fanfic useful/good/eeevil/useless" arguments, I was (mostly) joking. I don't think she did it deliberately.
I could see it being a small (certainly not primary) motivator.
Posted by SC Carver (Member # 8173) on :
Thanks BW I agree.
I saw an interview with JK a few years ago, I think about OotP release time. She said had written the last chapter so she could keep writing knowing how it would end and it would in fact come to an end. That is exactly what the epilogue felt like. Something she wrote a long time ago so she would know who lived through it, who died and who ended up together.
I wouldn't have minded one more chapter dealing with some funerals, and maybe a few hints that Hogwarts would go on, but we didn't need every question answered. Rowling’s never promised to wrap up every loose end in fact I believe she said she wouldn’t before DH came out.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I thought the Epilogue betrayed the book a little; it wasn't written as well or paced as strongly as the rest of what preceded it, and didn't actually provide much of a real denouement. I would have scrapped it and replaced it with a "three days later," myself; nineteen years is just too far out for me to care, frankly.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Ye olde curmudgeon. Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
I agree with Tom(and everyone else who was disappointed with it). It seemed poorly written compared to the rest of the book and I felt like I was reading a list of names instead of an epilogue(which btw were pretty confusing).
Besides that I absolutely loved the book.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlueWizard: I think the Epilogue can be summed up as simply as this ....
"...and life goes on."
Yes, you are curious, but does it really matter what job Harry got?
Yes, it does matter to me. It's been one of the leading questions in the back of my mind since book 1 on the train when Harry asked Ron what his older brothers did. He was curious what wizards did when they left school. I fully expected at that point, why back in book 1, to find out. It's a huge lack of closure for me. The question of what Harry would do has followed him since -- in book 4 when he thought of the aurores and in book 5 when he turned out to be a good teacher.
Not only that, but telling us what he did also helps us put into perspective what personal effects that last battle had on him. Saying, "...and life goes on..." is too neat because for Harry, at least, life will never be completely normal. I'm glad to see he got a taste of that with Ginny and 3 kids, but I'm still left with a gaping hole.
Just my opinion, anyway.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
BW - while I can see your point, the fact remains that I do want to know. I want to know if Harry became an Auror or if he just lived off his high school glory days and his Wheezes income and stayed on the couch watching TV for 19 years. I would like to know that Hermione became reknowned for inventing spells or that Ron became a Quidditch star. I would like to know who raised Teddy, and what McGonnagle is up to these days.
What was provided was (IMO) too much family minutae and not enough of anything else. I'd rather have seen it end at the Battle of Hogwarts or the first few days afterwards.
Were I forced into an epilogue, I'd rather have seen Harry and Ginny at the train station seeing off their firstborn on his first day. It would be a more clearcut break, a passing of the generations, Harry could still have had his Sorting Hat Speech moment, and a pregnant Ginny would indicate more to come.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Given that children #2 and #3 are one and three years younger than the oldest, why would Ginny have been pregnant?
[Edit: I can count. Really!]
[ July 23, 2007, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: rivka ]
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Fair enough. OK, younger kids acting up and Harry takes the eldest one aside for his speech. Maybe a mention of familiar faces bringing their own kids past him, waving as they go by, but keep the focus on Harry and his son.
For my tastes, there was too much kid-centric information presented and not enough of any other kind.
(And why name a kid after Severus but not Sirius? Little weird, there...)
Posted by SC Carver (Member # 8173) on :
We all know Harry, Hermione and Rod would be able to do what ever they wanted after the war. What ever job/career they are interested in. But by leaving it open you can fill it in with what ever you want. If she had filled in all the loose ends then there would be plenty of people who loved it, and plenty who would be disappointed. I prefer to think Harry and the gang continued to have some adventures from time to time and ended up working at Hogwarts, (his only true home). But if you feel he would have had his fill of danger and fame after the war then you can picture him all settled down in an easy job raising a family.
Overall she must have done a pretty good job if the epilogue is the only real complaint most people have.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Difference of tastes, I think. Clearly many were happy with the epilogue, and good on them. It didn't affect my enjoyment of the rest of the book, which was considerable and emotional. But since this thread is about the epilogue...
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
"(And why name a kid after Severus but not Sirius? Little weird, there...)"
Maybe James' middle name is Sirius? And I don't think it's fair that none of them are named after Ginny's family. Why not one kid named Fred?
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by GaalDornick: "(And why name a kid after Severus but not Sirius? Little weird, there...)"
Maybe James' middle name is Sirius? And I don't think it's fair that none of them are named after Ginny's family. Why not one kid named Fred?
I didn't like the middle name of Severus for a different reason -- because Snape never liked Harry and is probably rolling in his grave about Harry's kid getting his name. As to Fred -- that's George's right to have that name for his kid, if he has one. And other than that, there was no one else in Ginny's family that needed the honor.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by GaalDornick: Maybe James' middle name is Sirius?
That was what I was assuming.
Posted by BlueWizard (Member # 9389) on :
OK, I will concede there could have been a brief, three days later, scene that laid plot points, that allowed the Epilogue as it stands to make more sense. But still everything in the 'three days later' can be guest and/or assumed. As can, what happened in the intervening years.
Does it matter what job Harry got, as long as he got one and took care of his family? Yes, it matters to you, but you can fill in the blanks with your imagination.
I say Harry worked for Weasley Enterprises, other say he was an Auror, others think he was a Quidditch Star, but whatever he did, we know he loved and took care of his family, and that is most important to me.
Was Harry damaged? Certainly he was, just as the World War II veterans who took part in the great battles of that war were, but what did they do? They came home and got on with normal life, because after the horrors of war, normal was all they really wanted. Did it never haunt them, certainly it did. In the dark and dangerous recesses of their minds, those horrors were always with them, but they didn't burden their families.
For their families, they wanted beauty and love and hope, not darkness and despair. I'm always moved when I see WWII vets, now over a half century later, break down in tears as they recount their war traumas. They held that darkness and pain all these year because they wanted to protect their loved ones from it. I think that is a noble thing; part of what makes them 'The Greatest Generation'.
I think that is also what make Harry and the gang part of their 'greatest generation', that they put war and pain and despair behind them and moved on.
Just one man's thoughts.
Steve/BlueWizard
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
I thought James middle name would be Arthur, more like. Maybe Lily's middle name is Arthur. Maybe you only name kids after dead people.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I don't think they knew a whole lot about PTSD back during WW2 They don't understand enough about it these days.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
quote:Originally posted by pooka: Maybe Lily's middle name is Arthur.
Maybe it's Fred.
---
I'm in the camp of people who think the book didn't need an epilogue, let alone one taking place nineteen years later. I didn't really need to be told that "All was well" nineteen years later - unless Ron managed to disarm Harry and take the Elder Wand, of course all was going to be well. It felt silly and superficial, and my Deathly Hallows will always end on page 749. Harry's "I've had enough trouble for a lifetime" is ending enough for me.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:I prefer to think Harry and the gang continued to have some adventures from time to time and ended up working at Hogwarts, (his only true home).
I think the Epilogue pretty clearly establishes that Harry, Ginny and all the other adults we meet on the platform do not teach at Hogwarts, since none of them get on the train. Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
And they promise to write their kids.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:I prefer to think Harry and the gang continued to have some adventures from time to time and ended up working at Hogwarts, (his only true home).
I think the Epilogue pretty clearly establishes that Harry, Ginny and all the other adults we meet on the platform do not teach at Hogwarts, since none of them get on the train.
They don't really have to get on the train to go to Hogwarts though That was just Lupin because Lupin is poor and Slughorn just wanted to recruit students for his club. I don't know how Dumbledore, McGonagall, ect all got to school. Brooms? Apparating at Hogsmeade?
Posted by otterk10 (Member # 10463) on :
The reason I didn't like the epilogue was that it was written in the tone of the first three books. The entire 7th book is written as a book for adults, and then the epilogue reverts back to a children's story. The last sentence might as well have been, "and they all lived happily ever after."
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
It makes sense to me. Back in the first book, Harry was innocent. Now he has children who can stay safe and innocent in a new world.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:I don't know how Dumbledore, McGonagall, ect all got to school.
I'm pretty sure the administration lives at the school.
Posted by SC Carver (Member # 8173) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:I prefer to think Harry and the gang continued to have some adventures from time to time and ended up working at Hogwarts, (his only true home).
I think the Epilogue pretty clearly establishes that Harry, Ginny and all the other adults we meet on the platform do not teach at Hogwarts, since none of them get on the train.
Yes, I would have to agree Harry and the gang weren't teaching at Hogwarts at the time of the epilogue, but it doesn't mean they couldn't have taught there at some point in the 19 years.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Or later, considering the teachers are mostly grumpy old people.
Posted by Little_Doctor (Member # 6635) on :
I'm sure when the seventh movie comes out, the epilouge will become the final scene. Then JKR will jsut have them slip in a shot of a Daily Prophet that happens to have headlines about all of the characters we are missing out on.
"Minister Shacklebolt passes some new act"
"Weasleys' Wizard Wheezes #1 Joke Shop"
"Headmaster *Blank* continuing some sort of tradition."
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
And, hopefully, "Remember that old Umbridge hag, we finally found her soulless body."
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
There were only maybe two sentences missing from the epilogue that I would have liked to have seen.
Harry is an Auror or whatever. Luna and George got married
I think it's pretty obvious that Harry had never raised but had always taken care of Teddy. Also that Victoire is Bill and Fleur's, a year younger than Teddy, probably concieved just after the final battle.
I also had no problem with the 19 years later. The oldest son was 12, and Harry was 18 at the end of the final battle so Harry was 25 when that son was born, I don't see that as excessive at all.
Posted by Little_Doctor (Member # 6635) on :
"Chudley Cannons win championship!"
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Yeah, I don't think Harry actually ever had Teddy living with him, because his son insists that Ted can have his room.
Posted by TheBlueShadow (Member # 9718) on :
quote:Originally posted by Little_Doctor: "Chudley Cannons win championship!"
Now that's what was missing.
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
Now I've seen more than one person say that we ahouls all just like the ending the and imagine the rest for ourselves. But can't you see that it isn't just the same? I didn't write the books, so anything I just imagine just doesn't seem right to me. I want to see J.K. Rowling tell me what happened, because then I've got finality. If she does it, then there's no disputing it. This way, you don't tell someone what you thought could have happened, and then they give you 5 reasons why it couldn't have. If she told us, its undisputable and official, which is what I want.
But as they say, To Each His Own.
[ July 24, 2007, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: Reticulum ]
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Yes, but as "they" also say, "Transformers was the greatest movie ever!"
Posted by Damien.m (Member # 8462) on :
Article contains spoilers and also reveals the character who got a reprieve and one the wasn't meant to die but did.
Posted by Amilia (Member # 8912) on :
Also, while Harry is not a full time Hogwarts teacher, he does come and do guest lectures on Defense Against the Dark Arts.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by breyerchic04: Also that Victoire is Bill and Fleur's, a year younger than Teddy, probably conceived just after the final battle.
If she's about to start her last year at Hogwarts, she'd have to be younger than that. 16, almost 17 tops.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Can't I have my fun? Though actually Hermione turned 17 very early in their 6th year, and would be turning 18, still not quite enough time. She would have just graduated if born then. I guess they waited a year.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Or she has an older sibling (or two).
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
That I'll take. I think someone needs to have a bit of comfort immeadiatly after the first battle, Bill and Fleur seem like the perfect choice.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I vote for twin boys. Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Heh, yes twin boys, who aren't at all attracted to veelas. But really Percy deserves redheaded twins more than Bill does.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Give 'em each a set! Twins run in the family, after all.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
You want a set too while we're wishing?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
NO!
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Identical twins are not hereditary -- they are a genetic fluke that occur in 4 out of every 1000 live births. Fraternal twins are hereditary, but only through the mother, since it requires her body to act in such a way as to release 2 eggs. They are also common among women who take fertility drugs. Hmmmm...fertility magic??
Sorry about the nerdy talk...for various reasons I got curious and did a bit of research just a month or two ago.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine: Identical twins are not hereditary
Actually, there is evidence that a some of them are indeed hereditary.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
There is a family in my mom's school with two sets of identical twin boys. This might be just one random fluke.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: NO!
I'll take Rivka's pair if she doesn't want em.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
You could eat yams for that effect.
I wouldn't mind having twins, but that's because my ovaries keep taking over my mind making me forget that babies=difficult.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Well, as I spent 30 minutes out of every hour and a half nursing my son for the first 6 weeks, I'm not sure how I'd manage twins. I know people do, but I'm glad it's not me! Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
There's so cute though. Two adorable babies!
GAH!
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
quote: NO!
I heard once that the proportion of identical to fraternal twins is the opposite in Japan to what it is here in America, that is, the identical twins are more common (70/30 %) there. And no "how can they tell?" jokes.
I've also heard folk reports that some women can be... encouraged... to release multiple eggs. Though in the cases where people report this, one twin miscarried, so it doesn't seem like a great idea to me.
Posted by CRash (Member # 7754) on :
Heh. My dad's side of the family is identical-twin-carrying. My great aunts Velma and Zelma (I know, poor kids, right?) are identical, and my cousin was born an identical twin (her sister died at a young age). It's a skip-a-generation sort of thing, or at least it has been so far. I'm not from that line, though, so probably no twins for me...though I have to agree, twin babies are the cuteness!
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
I always thought that it would have been nice if Harry became the defence against dark arts teacher at Hogwarts. I mean, he was practically doing that job during his 5th year when he formed DA, and look how good his students turned out. Many of them were dueling Death Eaters and holding their own in the final battle! They could even all form patronuses, which is something that was thought to be beyond the abilities of most inexperienced wizards. And who in the wizarding world wouldn't like the idea of Harry Potter training kids to defend themselves against dark magic? He certainly has the practical experience and an impressive track record.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:Originally posted by rivka: NO!
I'll take Rivka's pair if she doesn't want em.
Don't you think you might want to check with your wife first?
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: You could eat yams for that effect.
Although they'd be fraternal, not identical. Also, American/European "yams" are actually sweet potatoes. Only true yams, which mostly grow in South America, have the estrogenic effects you're talking about.
quote:Originally posted by Christine: Well, as I spent 30 minutes out of every hour and a half nursing my son for the first 6 weeks, I'm not sure how I'd manage twins. I know people do, but I'm glad it's not me!
Exactly. I've done the one-baby-at-a-time routine three times. Totally worth it, but the idea of dealing with TWO at once makes me lightheaded.
My mom has three sisters. Two produced a set of fraternal twins apiece. So they probably DO run in the family. This is why my favorite part of each ultrasound was when they confirmed there was one healthy baby.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Well, there's no question that fraternal twins run in families. It's the identical ones that are in question...I did another look around the internet today (briefly) and still found the same stuff I did last time...fraternal is hereditary identical not....or maybe just not *proven*. Who knows, really? We learn something new all the time. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Maybe Harry taught until Ted arrived at the school.
Posted by heifertipper (Member # 10612) on :
I know there is some possible evidence on identical twins being hereditary but it is very little and if you really think about it, you can correlate anything if you look hard enough. A woman having fraternal twins is much more likely because some women are predisposed to drop more than one egg at a time. My best example to this comes from cattle, my family has been dairy farming for 45 years so we have a lot of records on births over a long period of time. We have about a 5% twinning rate with our cows and I am constantly analyzing the genetics for breeding and health purposes. I have only ever found a correlation in fraternal twinning. It is a lot easier to notice in cows because we hate it when we have mixed sex twins. If a cow gives birth to a female and male calf, the female has a 95% chance of being sterile,what we call a freemartin, and since we are dairy farmers that isn't a good thing. So we tend to watch the cows that have a tendency to twin, they both need to be female if they will be worthwhile, and since there are a lot of complications that come along with a multiple birth we are a lot happier if it is a single birth.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Rowling was on Today this morning, and she said that the epilogue was originally a lot longer and more detailed. But that it didn't work as writing, so she reduced it. But she did say that Ron and Harry revolutionized the Auror department, and that Hermione is very high up in magical law enforcement.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
Have to say, I didn't think Harry would become an auror, especially after he got the Elder wand, but at least I know now. It feels better to know....as for a poetic vs tell-y ending...even as a writer I have to say that in this case, I would have preferred a big chunk of information dumped on my head. We've just known these characters too long not to care and want to know. Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka:
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: [QUOTE]Originally posted by rivka: NO!
I'll take Rivka's pair if she doesn't want em.
quote:Don't you think you might want to check with your wife first?
It was HER idea! Or were you saying she might not want a set of twins originally reserved for Rivka?
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Concerning everybody's careers:
For me, it's more important to see how Harry loves his children than what his job happens to be. A job is just a job, and I think that sometimes we define ourselves by our jobs too much.
I prefer Harry the loving father and husband over Harry the Auror or Harry the Quiddich player or Harry the rock star etc., if there were just one thing which defined him as a person, or if there were just one thing we could know about their lives after Hogwarts.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: Concerning everybody's careers:
For me, it's more important to see how Harry loves his children than what his job happens to be. A job is just a job, and I think that sometimes we define ourselves by our jobs too much.
I prefer Harry the loving father and husband over Harry the Auror or Harry the Quiddich player or Harry the rock star etc., if there were one thing which defined him as a person.
Porter hates his job, you heard it here first.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I am very blessed to have the job I have, and there are a lot of great things about it, but no, I wouldn't keep it if I didn't need to support my family.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Porter works from home. Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Working from home is merely the location of the office I work in every day.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: Concerning everybody's careers:
For me, it's more important to see how Harry loves his children than what his job happens to be. A job is just a job, and I think that sometimes we define ourselves by our jobs too much.
I prefer Harry the loving father and husband over Harry the Auror or Harry the Quiddich player or Harry the rock star etc., if there were one thing which defined him as a person.
There are many things that define us as a person. If she had shown us Harry, the Head of the Auror department with Ron, still his faithful sidekick and neglected to mention children or families, I would have been upset by that as well. I have to say that I didn't even realize just how much this was bothering me until today, when I read that article. Even though I wouldn't have made Harry an auror, the fact that I know that's how he ended up gives me a sense of peace and closure about his character. I now have enough information to clearly imagine how he spent the rest of his life. It completes the picture.
I don't want to undermine the importance of family because I totally agree with you that in the long run, family is the most important thing that binds us to one another, followed closely by friendship. I have a bunch of opinions on this subject -- mostly political -- so I don't want to get into it here. I do find that as a culture we put way to much emphasis on what we do from 9-5 and not enough on what we do from 5-9...so much so that the hours stretch out into 10, 12, 16 hour days and I hear many men joking about working overtime to get away from their families. I am glad, immensely glad, that Harry is not such a man.
But on the other hand he was never a person to lie down and watch while bad tings happen in the world, and Voldemort is never going to be the only bad thing that happens in his world, so I am glad, immensely glad, to get a glimpse of how he continues to fight.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Christine: please notice the small edit I put at the end of that post of mine. Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I'm actually disappointed that Neville went into teaching and neither Harry nor Hermione did. Which is silly of me, I know, but YMMV.
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
I was disappointed that Harry wasn't the DADA teacher, but I never thought Hermione would be a teacher. She may have helped Ron and Harry with their homework, but I always got the impression that she was exasperated most of the time she did it. I don't think she would have had the patience to teach. Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Porter: Well said, nobody dies wishing they'd spent more time at the office.
-------- Harry to me just never seemed the type to teach when he could actually go out and face dark magic in the flesh. I like him much better as head auror and giving guest lectures or even teaching the occasional semester at Hogwarts while retaining his duties at the ministry.
Neville definately seemed like the type to live at the school and teach herbology.
Hermione is an enigma to me. I honestly see her as an attorney but how does she manage that with that many children?
Posted by Christine (Member # 8594) on :
How many children do you think she had? The epilogue mentioned 2. If any woman is going to work and raise 2 children, it's Hremione. She's the one who was taking a billion classes in her third year and usinga time turner to get to them all. Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Christine: How many children do you think she had? The epilogue mentioned 2. If any woman is going to work and raise 2 children, it's Hremione. She's the one who was taking a billion classes in her third year and usinga time turner to get to them all.
Good point. But remember she was only 35 in the epilogue, alot of time remains until menopause sets in. But I suppose they have a spell for that too. Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Somebody already brought that dish to the party Pixiest. Check the near bottom of page 2.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Sod all, I'm never first =P
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
I have to admit that while I do like knowing more of what went on with the characters (via that article) I think the original epilogue does a good job. It reminds me of the ending of Band of Brothers, where you have the same types of characters, heroes who have been through hell and back and we get a quick synopses of how they lived the rest of their lives.
For those who were listed as cab drivers or contractors, I can't help but feel sorry that their life after might have been rather humdrum by comparison. That's not to say that they didn't lead fulfilling lives at home, but picturing Harry as a beat cop just seems somewhat of a let-down after all the crazyness so far. By far the epilogues that touched me the most in BoB were those about the families, or the thousands of people that attended their funerals etc...
Becoming the head of the Auror department is great and all, but I just know that along with that is tedious paperwork, dealing with inter-office squabbles etc... which just seems kinda demeaning for Harry. Similarly, while we all respect and love characters like Mad-Eye, it would sadden me if Harry turned into him...
Basically, in my view, dealing with the specifics of their lives immediately after this conflict would likely just lessen them (in our eyes) because we'd see how maybe George turned to drinking for a while to get over his brother's death, or how the first few jobs for Harry were particularly unsatisfying because he was finally living without the threat of Voldemort (which had been the defining characteristic of his life to this point)... they are human, but we don't want to see them being human.
Now, while in the midst of their epic battles we need to see that they are real, flawed characters in order to truly care about them, but when it comes down to just straight up life it's going to be dissapointing. just as if she had written about every day of every class that they took.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Pixiest: Sod all, I'm never first =P
If it makes you feel better. I just came here to post the link, so you beat me out.
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